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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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writersblock51

writersblock51

My takeaway from the Access Hollydwood interview:

 

this is the beginning of Laurel's journey, not the end.

What have the past 2 seasons been about then?

 

How complicated will Sara's murder mystery be?

He doesn't want to spoil anything (fine) but stranger things (referencing Roy possibly being the killer) have happened on the show. They love to tease people. I think they want to make this story as complicated and ridiculous as possible because it's fun for them. Even if it doesn't make for a good story, ulimtately

 

Another drug story for Roy?

Not in the short term. I'm relieved about this.

 

Caity will be back, most likely.

And in a 'surprising' way. I don't care anymore. I can only assume that there are fans who want this so it justifies the EPs reasoning to keep showing her.  It's definitely not on my list of what to watch.

 

My conclusion - none of this sounds interesting to me.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

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BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

As always, MG's interview annoyed me.  Especially this part:

 

Access: Obviously Caity's in the trailers. Are we going to get a lot of her this week? Is this episode two of the three she's doing this season on the show?
Marc: You're gonna see more of Caity. We're actually just making our sort of deal with her right now for the third of the three episodes we contracted her for, and we're gonna bring her back in probably the way you least expect. … Any of the ways you think we're going to bring her back are not the ways we're probably are going to bring her back.
 

 

 

Unless she is brought back alive, I don't really care.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

OK, from the eonline interview:

 

Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh) is about to take Felicity out on a date. Should Olicity fans be worried?
Well, I've never known Olicity fans to not be worried! There are two types of Olicity fans. There are the ones who want them to be married with a kid or two or three in the next episode, and then there are the ones who favor the slow burn, on-again/off-again, one step forward two steps back kind of relationship. Certainly the fact that we've released a promo showing Ray Palmer kissing Felicity suggests that the approach we're taking is very much the latter.

 

 

He's going to fuck this up, isn't he?   I would actually say that most people probably want a relationship with plenty of progress and build-up.  Not off/on crap.  Ugh!

 

Laurel (Katie Cassidy) is well on her way to becoming Black Canary now that she's in training. How long of a journey is that going to be for her?
It depends on how you define "journey." What Laurel is going to discover is that being a hero is more than wearing a mask and that wearing a mask and costume does not a hero make. It's not going to be an easy road for Laurel no matter how quickly she suits up.

 

 

So yeah, I think Laurel is suiting up by episode eleven.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

If on/off is what they have been doing so far this season, then he isn't understanding what he is saying. I'm wondering if its more like they will have scenes to pull them closer, but then have them pull back again. Like 3.05: an Oliver/Felicity scene that had a lot of depth, but no ground was physically made.

 

Yep. Laurel is suiting and getting her butt kicked for sure. 

Edited by 10Eleven12
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

He's going to fuck this up, isn't he? I would actually say that most people probably want a relationship with plenty of progress and build-up. Not off/on crap. Ugh!

Yes, it's looking that way. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of people who love Oliver and Felicity too. I see very, very few of those he claims want them married and pregnant by thr end of the season and while it's true most do want the slow progression, I don't think destroying them in a clichéd love triangle is what they have in mind. Sure, give them real challenges and make them work for it, but this approach has "train wreck" written all over it.

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

I know of Olicity fans who are in favor of a slow burn between them. I know if none that are in favor of on-again/off-again crap. IDEK what MG is talking about.

 

The only things about his interviews that interest me are Tommy's reappearance and Oliver seeing a therapist, whatever that entails.

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Ceylon5

Ceylon5

In these interviews, he mentioned with respect to both Sara and Tommy that we'd be seeing them again in some way that no-one will expect.  Since flashbacks, dreams and hallucinations are the most expected ways of bringing back dead characters, I was wondering whether maybe they're going to do one of those off-beat episodes which some shows love to do where all the characters show up in a sort of alternate reality (though probably not a musical episode, since Stephen seems really dead set against this) - which would enable them to bring back anyone they want for the episode.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

 

I'd love to see Tommy again, that's a plus. Oliver has been needing to see a therapist since he returned from the island, so that's also a good thing.

 

I'm not interested in the 'one step forward, two steps back' thing MG said about Oliver and Felicity. There's slow burn and then there's ruining them before they've even had a chance to begin. The way things are going I feel like the latter is going to happen so I'm not impressed. All that hype during the hiatus for nothing it seems.

 

As for Laurel, he pretty much confirmed that she'll be suiting up sooner rather than later which is a huge mistake but whatever. As long as she's not suddenly the best superhero that ever superhero'd then I suppose it will have to do. 

Edited by Guest
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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

I guess Colton wont be doing interviews lol.

lol tbh I think they are hiding something about Roy and Colton is generally a spoiler whore so it's probably better that he isn't giving interviews 

 

ANyway I wonder what they mean by Tommy is coming back. That's interesting. 

Edited by ban1o
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

In these interviews, he mentioned with respect to both Sara and Tommy that we'd be seeing them again in some way that no-one will expect.  Since flashbacks, dreams and hallucinations are the most expected ways of bringing back dead characters, I was wondering whether maybe they're going to do one of those off-beat episodes which some shows love to do where all the characters show up in a sort of alternate reality (though probably not a musical episode, since Stephen seems really dead set against this) - which would enable them to bring back anyone they want for the episode.

 

Gosh, I hope not.  I hate those kind of episodes more than anything :)  It's basically a waste of an hour because nothing that is happening is actually real or will have any effect on the story whatsoever.  So yes, this is probably exactly what they are doing. 

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

In these interviews, he mentioned with respect to both Sara and Tommy that we'd be seeing them again in some way that no-one will expect.  Since flashbacks, dreams and hallucinations are the most expected ways of bringing back dead characters, I was wondering whether maybe they're going to do one of those off-beat episodes which some shows love to do where all the characters show up in a sort of alternate reality (though probably not a musical episode, since Stephen seems really dead set against this) - which would enable them to bring back anyone they want for the episode.

This is an interesting theory actually. Interesting enough almost everybody in the cast has some sort of Singing experience. So a musical episode could be interesting lol. But I think the off-beat episode is a really good theory. Like when they make it 40's style or something. 

Edited by ban1o
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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Hey he did pretty good job at SDCC misleading people so i bet he could handle a interview or 2. Still havent forgiven him that he made me believe Sara would be alive.

lol true. Up until the premiere I was using his comments as assurance/evidence that Sara wouldn't die lol. 

Edited by ban1o
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writersblock51

writersblock51

The description of what MG thinks is 'slow burn' for MG in regards is 2 steps back for every step forward.  That's OK for the occasional bump in the road but it cannot be the rate that any relationship can sustain. I hope that he realizes that but I doubt it.

 

Also, that 'slow burn' seems to be the opposite of the rushed 'slow burn' that Laurel's journey is taking. Even if she is NOT the full blown hero by the time she dons a suit, I feel that the show has every intention of making her the Black Canary of comic lore in a shorter amount of time than it's taking Oliver to become "Green Arrow." 

 

Oliver and therapy - well, that was a funny idea that had been discussed at one point that started with a serious tone.  Oliver and all of his PTSD and pain definitely needs it. 

 

The return of Tommy... the show loves to hype the 'twists' but so far, I remain underwhelmed with the actual execution.

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Oh and there Marc he goes again with the HUGE SECRET that's being revealed on Flash. Uggh. He's probably over-hyping it but the way they are hyping it really makes me think it's not the baby and doesn't have anything to do with the baby. Still don't get why this is being shown on Flash. 

Edited by ban1o
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Sakura12

Sakura12

As a Sara fan, Caity coming back for pointless Sara flashbacks is still not going to make me start watching this show again. Why would I want to be reminded even more about how much of a badass survivor Sara was when she's dead now? That will just make me angry all over again that they killed her and wasted so much screentime on a character that meant nothing.  

 

Plus, wasn't it 5 episodes over the Summer, now it's back to 3. I hope Caity said she'd only do 3, so she can start looking for other work. 

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Guest

Guest

I thought interviews were supposed to hype things and make you want to watch the rest of the season. So far, I got nothing. It's had the opposite effect for me. I'm not even sure if I want to bother watching anymore. It's just kind of sucked all the enthusiasm I had which wasn't much in the first place. With Oliver and Felicity not happening I always thought we'd have Team Arrow to lean back on but even that's gone now. Ugh.

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looptab

looptab

In these interviews, he mentioned with respect to both Sara and Tommy that we'd be seeing them again in some way that no-one will expect.  Since flashbacks, dreams and hallucinations are the most expected ways of bringing back dead characters, I was wondering whether maybe they're going to do one of those off-beat episodes which some shows love to do where all the characters show up in a sort of alternate reality (though probably not a musical episode, since Stephen seems really dead set against this) - which would enable them to bring back anyone they want for the episode.

I can see them doing something like this. Like "What would have happened if Oliver decided not to keep the promise he made to his father?" or something like that.

As for the big secret, I think it could have something to do with Oliver's decision to come back. I don't know why nor how something like that would come up in The Flash though, I just like the idea lol

Also scared about what they intend to do with the flashback...they might be pulling a "We have to go baaaaaaaaack!" on us :/

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I don't let myself get too worked up over MG's interviews, because things don't usually play out on screen the way he makes it seem like they will, IMO. He's been going on about that one step forward, two steps back relationship crap between O/F since mid-season 2, and it hasn't played out that way. I think that's the way Oliver's been approaching this relationship anyway. He realizes he loves Felicity, it takes him a while to do anything about it. He wants to be with her, it takes him a while to do anything about it. He realizes he doesn't want to lose her to Ray, it takes him a while to figure out what to do about it. To me it's more about stops and starts than moving forward and then back.

 

I am somewhat comforted that he seems to realize that a costume and desire does not a superhero make, but I'm probably in the minority in that I'd rather not sit around and watch Laurel do one dumbass thing after another (like we are right now), when it takes her making the same mistake over and over to finally learn from it. I think I'd rather watch her just be BC than watch her stumble along the path to getting there. Although, be careful what you wish for and all that.

 

So, either Tommy or Sara's going to be alive, right? Probably Tommy, since he's the one with the penis. I would, however, love if the payoff to this stupid not telling Lance thing is that right as Laurel goes to do it Sara shows up at Lance's door, haha. I would suspend every level of belief I have for that one.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Second Sneak Peek. Felicity and Roy clip. LOL this basically confirms this is just suppressed memories about killing the cops coming out imo 

 

http://onyx-river.tumblr.com/post/102457533426/arrow-guilty-clip-felicity-roy 

 

Yeah, and Oliver's going to use the method he learned in Hong Kong to draw them out.

 

Poor Roy. He's such an adorable little simpleton, and when he finally bares his heart Felicity just walks away, lol.

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

It's weird because I thought they would at least have Roy somewhat believe he might have killed Sara but he doesn't seem to think he killed Sara at all. It just seems like he doesn't like his nightmares haha. 

Edited by ban1o
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

It's weird because I thought they would at least have Roy somewhat believe he might have killed Sara but he doesn't seem to think he killed Sara at all. It just seems like he doesn't like his nightmares. 

 

It seems like he wants to believe they're just nightmares and he needs someone to tell him that they are just nightmares. Felicity didn't do such a good job, haha, so I think that's when he starts to believe it. Could be wrong though.

 

Also, this whole throwing of arrows thing as a misdirect is so stupid since you can clearly hear the nocking of the arrow and the pull of the string before the arrows go flying right before Sara dies.

Ehh i remember S2 when they released her scenes in promos and then that was all that was in the episode.

 

There's going to have to be another one at least, because she needs to tell either Diggle or Oliver or both that Roy might be remembering killing that cop.

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

It seems like he wants to believe they're just nightmares and he needs someone to tell him that they are just nightmares. Felicity didn't do such a good job, haha, so I think that's when he starts to believe it. Could be wrong though.

 

Also, this whole throwing of arrows thing as a misdirect is so stupid since you can clearly hear the nocking of the arrow and the pull of the string before the arrows go flying right before Sara dies.

Aah that's true. And yeah that's true about the bow, but I guess that could just be an inconsistency by the writers. Many people have pointed out that Roy knew Sara's exact last words before she died and how would he know that unless he was there and actually killed her?

 

Again definitely don't think  he killed her at all just being a devil's advocate haha. 

Edited by ban1o
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I thought interviews were supposed to hype things and make you want to watch the rest of the season. So far, I got nothing. It's had the opposite effect for me. I'm not even sure if I want to bother watching anymore. It's just kind of sucked all the enthusiasm I had which wasn't much in the first place. With Oliver and Felicity not happening I always thought we'd have Team Arrow to lean back on but even that's gone now. Ugh.

 

Guggenheim has this unique ability to totally crush any remaining excitement that I have for future episodes.  Maybe he really is responsible for the crap-fest that this show has become because I basically haven't enjoyed Arrow since Barry Allen left, and I think that's approximately when Kreisberg and Berlanti checked out for The Flash.

 

So are they showing almost all of the Felicity scenes before the episode airs?

 

Since Felicity has the same outfit on in all of the photos and scenes that have been released, I would not be surprised if she has minimal screen time in this episode.  Poor Diggle.  Where is he?!

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Guest

Guest

It's weird because I thought they would at least have Roy somewhat believe he might have killed Sara but he doesn't seem to think he killed Sara at all. It just seems like he doesn't like his nightmares. 

 

I always thought Roy's worry would be that he's having these dreams and they're so real but he knows he didn't do it so what the hell is going on? He's basically saying what's wrong with me?! That kind of thing.

 

I don't let myself get too worked up over MG's interviews, because things don't usually play out on screen the way he makes it seem like they will, IMO. He's been going on about that one step forward, two steps back relationship crap between O/F since mid-season 2, and it hasn't played out that way. I think that's the way Oliver's been approaching this relationship anyway. He realizes he loves Felicity, it takes him a while to do anything about it. He wants to be with her, it takes him a while to do anything about it. He realizes he doesn't want to lose her to Ray, it takes him a while to figure out what to do about it. To me it's more about stops and starts than moving forward and then back.

 

I am somewhat comforted that he seems to realize that a costume and desire does not a superhero make, but I'm probably in the minority in that I'd rather not sit around and watch Laurel do one dumbass thing after another (like we are right now), when it takes her making the same mistake over and over to finally learn from it. I think I'd rather watch her just be BC than watch her stumble along the path to getting there. Although, be careful what you wish for and all that.

 

So, either Tommy or Sara's going to be alive, right? Probably Tommy, since he's the one with the penis. I would, however, love if the payoff to this stupid not telling Lance thing is that right as Laurel goes to do it Sara shows up at Lance's door, haha. I would suspend every level of belief I have for that one.

 

Bless your common sense about MG's interviews. I forget that sometimes. I didn't read EP interviews pre-season 3 so I have no measure of comparison to what he says and what actually plays out on screen.

 

And I wasn't at all convinced by the 'Tommy comes back from the dead' theories but now I'm starting to consider it. I doubt it will be Sara. She'll either be in flashback or a dream/hallucination. Ugh.

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JJ928

JJ928

(edited)

I don't let myself get too worked up over MG's interviews, because things don't usually play out on screen the way he makes it seem like they will, IMO. He's been going on about that one step forward, two steps back relationship crap between O/F since mid-season 2, and it hasn't played out that way. I think that's the way Oliver's been approaching this relationship anyway. He realizes he loves Felicity, it takes him a while to do anything about it. He wants to be with her, it takes him a while to do anything about it. He realizes he doesn't want to lose her to Ray, it takes him a while to figure out what to do about it. To me it's more about stops and starts than moving forward and then back.

 

I am somewhat comforted that he seems to realize that a costume and desire does not a superhero make, but I'm probably in the minority in that I'd rather not sit around and watch Laurel do one dumbass thing after another (like we are right now), when it takes her making the same mistake over and over to finally learn from it. I think I'd rather watch her just be BC than watch her stumble along the path to getting there. Although, be careful what you wish for and all that.

 

So, either Tommy or Sara's going to be alive, right? Probably Tommy, since he's the one with the penis. I would, however, love if the payoff to this stupid not telling Lance thing is that right as Laurel goes to do it Sara shows up at Lance's door, haha. I would suspend every level of belief I have for that one.

I'm with you on the Laurel front. I rather they rip off the band-aid and make her BC. Once that happens hopefully the show can concentrate on other characters. I would love for both Tommy & Sara to be alive, mostly Sara though. However, if they were going to resurrect one of them, I'm with you. If they brought Sara back it invalidates Laurel (which I'd be fine with I love Sara), it'd also be the third time she was sorta resurrected on the show. I won't lie, a big part of me is hopeful that the Lazarus pit is introduced for Sara, & on that it has more than just healing abilities. 

 

I feel like the Tommy is her killer theory could actually play out.

In the new GA comic, Tommy is back as the Dark Archer. So it could be that they're doing things in the comics that could play out on the show.

, Spoiler tagged incase you haven't read the new GA comic & want to.

Edited by JJ928
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Aah that's true. And yeah that's true about the bow, but I guess that could just be an inconsistency by the writers. Many people have pointed out that Roy knew Sara's exact last words before she died and how would he know that unless he was there and actually killed her?

 

Again definitely don't think  he killed her at all just being a devil's advocate haha. 

 

I think because "Hello, Sara," and "What are you doing here?" are generic enough conversation pieces that it's believable he's imagining something to the T that he wasn't actually present for. How he'd know about the voice modulator, I don't know - it was probably just to give the audience an "OH SHIT" moment. Or maybe he did really kill her but shot arrows instead of throwing them and he's amalgamating killing the cop and killing Sara into one memory.

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Orion

Orion

If anyone is looking for comfort from those interviews the one positive I saw was that I've never seen show runners refer to a couple as a "slow burn" unless they were the OTP of the show. So, yeah there is that.

 

The one thing that INFURIATED me was the we put a lot of cards on the table and the mid season finale is when we start to reveal what all of those meant.  They are doing season 2b mistakes all over again. Every episode is just to set up something important down the line instead of being important to the story itself. Season 2b we had to rush in the Suicide Squad and the LOA and Waller and her drones all so we could have this big fight in the finale. Now they are doing the same thing again. Looking at the finish line instead of paying attention to what's going on right in front of their faces. That's why we have such issues with pacing and plot holes and unearned storylines now.  Because it's not about each individual episode but moving the chest pieces around for later. Grrrr.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

 Because it's not about each individual episode but moving the chest pieces around for later. Grrrr.

 

Yeah, it wouldn't be so bad if they could maintain a good duality where something is important now and something else in the ep is important later, so there's a satisfying ending to one thing while leaving another open for later. They're trying, but not succeeding very well.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I feel like the Tommy is her killer theory could actually play out.

In the new GA comic, Tommy is back as the Dark Archer. So it could be that they're doing things in the comics that could play out on the show.

, Spoiler tagged incase you haven't read the new GA comic & want to.

 

It could, but I really hope it doesn't. He was legit dead, DEAD dead. People saw him die, people saw his body, he had a real funeral, he is in the ground. There can't be some trickery involved like with his father, because Tommy wasn't trained by the LoA, and doesn't know how to "appear" dead or whatever in the hell. He'd have to be Pit-ed, and I'm not such a fan of that being introduced. I need death to stick if I'm going to be moved by it when it happens.

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