Spoiler Discussion Thread

[ComicFan777]

The thing that I don't get is if Prometheus is going to somehow manipulate Susan to get to Oliver, how would he know that Oliver cares enough about Susan that he would get distracted or broken even...because I certainly don't see why Oliver cares about her.

Edited March 3, 2017 by ComicFan777

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

The thing that I don't get is if Prometheus is going to somehow manipulate Susan to get to Oliver, how would he know that Oliver cares enough about Susan that he would get distracted or broken even...because I certainly don't see why Oliver cares about her.

He knows they're BF/GF so the assumption is there's a certain amount of caring involved there. For the purposes of plot, we the audience apparently don't have to fully understand why Oliver is attracted to her or even care about her. I don't know if Chase necessarily expects Oliver to be "broken," I'm going with distracted. 

[way2interested]

Just now, ComicFan777 said:

The thing that I don't get is if Prometheus is going to somehow manipulate Susan to get to Oliver, how would he know that Oliver cares enough about Susan that he would get distracted or broken even...because I certainly don't see why Oliver cares about her.

I think they mentioned that part of it has to do with Susan being a reporter, so I think it would be more of the potential for her spilling his secret rather than just manipulating her to get to Oliver. And I would guess that Chase is pretty much going on the idea that Oliver is dating her and told Chase that he wouldn't use his relationship with Susan to stop any investigation as his motive for being sure that Oliver wouldn't stop Susan from possibly spilling Oliver's secret after Chase pushes Susan in that direction.

[apinknightmare]

12 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

The thing that I don't get is if Prometheus is going to somehow manipulate Susan to get to Oliver, how would he know that Oliver cares enough about Susan that he would get distracted or broken even...because I certainly don't see why he cares about her.

I think maybe that's playing into the fear that Chase planted when he tried to make Oliver believe that everyone who gets close to him suffers because of it. So really, his level of care for Susan isn't a factor so much as the fact that she got involved with Oliver/Green Arrow, and is now going to pay the price for that. It's reinforcing an idea that we've already seen Oliver struggle with.

I've been trying to figure out how this betrayal is going to come in. When Susan told Oliver that she was going to keep his Green secret because she believed that he (Green Arrow, or Oliver as mayor, or both - I can't remember how she phrased it) was good for the city, I thought it was weird that this came off of the admission that Green Arrow had murdered a cop. Did I miss something where she had any kind of reaction to this at all? It seems weird that she'd be so eager to get back together with a guy who readily admitted he killed a good cop without asking for any of the story behind it.

So, maybe that's how Chase gets to her? Maybe he spins a tale about Billy's murder that has her questioning whether he's good or not, and that's where the "betrayal" comes in? Because she starts to feel like he isn't as good as she thought/he led her to believe?

Edited March 3, 2017 by apinknightmare

[arjumand]

8 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

Kapot means a car hood, I believe Kapiushon the correct spelling for Hood.

 I just looked it up on google translate too see how it's pronounced (exactly as it's written here) and I just had to laugh - 'Kapot' is literally the first result on google translate when you look up 'hood'. The first one. These writers, man.

[Cleanqueen]

11 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

The thing that I don't get is if Prometheus is going to somehow manipulate Susan to get to Oliver, how would he know that Oliver cares enough about Susan that he would get distracted or broken even...because I certainly don't see why Oliver cares about her.

Would Oliver feel worse about knowing Susan betrayed him and that this whole time trusting her was the biggest mistake he made or would he feel more broken about not saving her. I think the former is more likely.

[insomniadreams88]

10 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

The thing that I don't get is if Prometheus is going to somehow manipulate Susan to get to Oliver, how would he know that Oliver cares enough about Susan that he would get distracted or broken even...because I certainly don't see why Oliver cares about her.

I wonder if the whole point of this "relationship" is that Chase can manipulate Susan, but he wouldn't have been able to manipulate Felicity. So if the point of this is to have Prometheus manipulate Oliver's significant other, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere with Felicity, therefore they couldn't have Oliver and Felicity together for that simple reason. Enter Susan.

[Cleanqueen]

Yes I honestly don't know why Susan chose to keep his secret. I don't think she cared much about the fact that he killed someone. It came off as her being happy that she has her job now and since he wants to date her she's all for it. So much for her being good at her job right.

[ComicFan777]

Maybe Susan could feel betrayed if:
With Felicity joining Helix for its resources, Helix might be a mysterious hacktivist group that appears to cause more trouble rather than good.  It does depend on what Felicity ends up doing for them to get those resources, but I could see Prometheus giving Susan info about Helix and she wants to do a story on it, but Oliver won't let her because it involves Felicity.  She could feel betrayed because he is choosing to protect Felicity over letting Star City know about what Helix/Felicity are doing.  Of course, this all hinges on just how bad Helix ends up being and whether Susan would care if Oliver is against it or not because I think she cares about her job more.

Edited March 3, 2017 by ComicFan777

[statsgirl]

Knowing Oliver, he would feel guilty for getting Susan involved with Prometheus and getting hurt because you know he'd think she's a totally innocent party.

I think "car hood" is more appropriate for s5 Oliver.  Because he's that stupid and that hollow.  If Chase really is 10 steps ahead, he's been feeding Susan the information and set her on Oliver's path, knowing that once Oliver falls for her she's going to be sucking out all of his brain cells.

30 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think maybe that's playing into the fear that Chase planted when he tried to make Oliver believe that everyone who gets close to him suffers because of it. So really, his level of care for Susan isn't a factor so much as the fact that she got involved with Oliver/Green Arrow, and is now going to pay the price for that. It's reinforcing an idea that we've already seen Oliver struggle with.

I've been trying to figure out how this betrayal is going to come in. When Susan told Oliver that she was going to keep his Green secret because she believed that he (Green Arrow, or Oliver as mayor, or both - I can't remember how she phrased it) was good for the city, I thought it was weird that this came off of the admission that Green Arrow had murdered a cop. Did I miss something where she had any kind of reaction to this at all? It seems weird that she'd be so eager to get back together with a guy who readily admitted he killed a good cop without asking for any of the story behind it.

So, maybe that's how Chase gets to her? Maybe he spins a tale about Billy's murder that has her questioning whether he's good or not, and that's where the "betrayal" comes in? Because she starts to feel like he isn't as good as she thought/he led her to believe?

Ironically, Susan did suffer but it was from Thea, not Oliver, and it was because Susan was going to hurt Oliver herself.

Maybe the writers are seeing something different but I see a totally self-serving Susan.  Telling Oliver that she's going to keep his secret because he's good for the city makes zero sense.  I can see her turning against Oliver if Prometheus convinces her that he will always care more for Felicity than he does for her.  Not because Susan loves him or even cares about him that much but because that's how narcissism works.

ETA:  I guess this is the dark episode with feels that BFS tweeted about writing.

Edited March 3, 2017 by statsgirl

[Trisha]

20 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I wonder if the whole point of this "relationship" is that Chase can manipulate Susan, but he wouldn't have been able to manipulate Felicity. So if the point of this is to have Prometheus manipulate Oliver's significant other, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere with Felicity, therefore they couldn't have Oliver and Felicity together for that simple reason. Enter Susan.

Yeah, I think that's it. I think the link to the meta posted in the episode thread has some merit. Susan's only purpose this season may be to show Oliver that she's the opposite of Felicity. Prommy couldn't turn Felicity against Oliver even after he killed her boyfriend, but he'll be able to turn Susan. Susan told Oliver he's a terrible mayor and in the same episode Felicity told him he's an awesome one. Susan only reunited with Oliver after she got her job back, while Felicity stayed by his side even after she lost her CEO position.

Logically, I guess it makes sense but for a narrative arc it's pretty terrible. Why did we need to spend a half a season teaching Oliver -- what? That Felicity's awesome and he's a better person when he's with her? Ok ... but didn't he already know that? He said as much in his vows. It would have been a better use of time to have Felicity learn that Oliver is awesome and she's a better person when she's with him (though there's been no evidence of that this season). I guess that could happen in the remaining 8 episodes depending on how deep she gets with Helix and if/how Oliver helps her get out. 

Also, someone on Twitter pointed out that SA said someone mentions his son in the next episode and when we first met Chase he said that Oliver once stole his girlfriend, so maybe Chase is referring to Samantha? 

[statsgirl]

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Also, someone on Twitter pointed out that SA said someone mentions his son in the next episode and when we first met Chase he said that Oliver once stole his girlfriend, so maybe Chase is referring to Samantha? 

That's it! Chase is jealous that William is Oliver's son and not his own.

[Cleanqueen]

Oliver knows felicity is the better option always, but he hasn't done anything to try to fix what he ruined with her...so I guess all this is supposed to get him back to that mere fact that he ruined the best thing he had and hasn't tried to fix what he broke. Cue Felicity also realizing that she hid things herself and kept parts of herself and not opening up about how she's been feeling has led to where she is now. I think all this is supposed to have them both come back to each other at exactly the same moment they both feel broken and the only person that understands them is right there.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Cleanqueen

[Belinea]

19 minutes ago, Trisha said:

SA said someone mentions his son in the next episode and when we first met Chase he said that Oliver once stole his girlfriend, so maybe Chase is referring to Samantha? 

I wouldn't mind that theory. If it were the case, it would be somewhat funny that this one night will haunt Oliver for the rest of his life. 

Also, Oliver doesn't really look depressed to me or anything. To me he behaves more idiotic than depressed. Also I don't know who said it but I don't know that I buy Oliver being so broken about Felicity that he became this way and focuses on everything but her. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Belinea

[Morrigan2575]

32 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I wouldn't mind that theory. If it were the case, it would be somewhat funny that this one night will haunt Oliver for the rest of his life. 

Also, Oliver doesn't really look depressed to me or anything. To me he behaves more idiotic than depressed. Also I don't know who said it but I don't know that I buy Oliver being so broken about Felicity that he became this way and focuses on everything but her. 

Oliver being depressed has been a running spec on this board. Would be interesting if that turns out to be true and SA playing Robot Oliver was an acting/writing/directing/ choice and not SA phoning it in or being unhappy with the Season.

Of course it's so hard to tell with this show because they DO NOT do subtle and this would be very subtle.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Sunshine]

Unpopular Opinion:  Sorry for putting this out there and I would love to be wrong. Luckily I am 99.95% of the time.

I think Felicity's "dark arc" is going to play out like Diggle's in 5.01-5.04  in that she is going to get a couple of minutes of screen time an episode with random characters, Kojo being one of them.  She will still have scenes with the others because Diggle, Curtis, and Oliver are all going to try to get through to her.   Diggle was removed from the story so there was a narrative reason for a new team. 

Felicity told Kojo at the end of  5.15 she was ready to go full throttle with Helix.  Felicity and Oliver have an "adult conversation" coming up soon.  There is a mention of William in 5.16.  SA said at some point end of S4 to how they got to where they were S5 working together is addressed.  I think it's all happening in 5.16   I think Felicity is leaving the team (she might help out part-time) so it's sort of a not leaving on bad terms but I need a change conversation.  Mending fences as SA said. * 

In 5.17-5.18 SA implied in his FB Q&A that Oliver has a breakdown.  He probably is due one and in an earlier post I said it should and he should become stronger on his own.  I think he will get emotional support though - from Dinah.  IMO, it would be almost impossible for this to happen if Felicity were present because the expectation would be that she would be there for him.  She has been even when they weren't romantically linked.  I think this is going to be the emotional connection WM keeps talking about.  JH talked about being closest to Oliver and having a soft spot for Curtis.  Someone on this board made a Dinah/Curtis comparison to S1 Oliver/Felicity. 

Susan Williams may still be around simply as a pawn for Prometheus.  She may remain the love interest in order to not give the impression that Ollie & Dinah is happening.  Or she may just be a reporter gathering information for a story. IDK.

I wonder if Lyla will be around for more than just 5.19. Hmm.  More reason to rely on Dinah if Diggle's with Argus. 

Dinah and Rene have been set up to be able to interact with Oliver post 5.18 Disbanded. I think for Dinah and Oliver to really bond as partners you have to remove Felicity and Diggle from the equation.

I think we are seeing a pivot to either a comic characters centered team in S6 - Green Arrow, Black Canary, Wild Dog & Curtis - or a move to an ensemble show like LOT.   If the former, I think Diggle & Felicity will still be around but with their importance to Green Arrow reduced.  Diggle will always be Oliver's brother.  Felicity might be the love interest and establish Smoak Technologies which would assist the team.   I do think we're seeing all the pieces put in place more subtly than we did in S3.  AK said before S3 started it was transitioning to an ensemble.  It never happened successfully.  I guess the question could be how many more heroes does Arrow have to introduce going forward?

 MG told JBA that they were rebuilding Olicity.  I haven't really seen it.  I have seen signs that could be classified as hang in there, we're going to get back to it eventually.   He also said it would be a slow process.   WM said she didn't know if it would happen this season which was later changed to right away.  JBA assumed it would happen this year.  I think the plan was probably to end on a note that it's headed that way so those fans come back but the rebuild would be in S6 when they are both emotionally healthier.  Both have been through a lot of trauma*.  The plan might have changed.  I guess we'll see.  * I do think if the adult conversation is about mending fences that could be a sign of a rebuild starting. 

*Felicity will probably have to work through her trauma on her own.  Oliver will have Dinah and perhaps others. 

[Starfish35]

5 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

With Echo signing a 1 year contract i guess there is an option to not renew him.  

Where did you see that Echo only signed a one-year contract?  That's the first I've heard of that.

[wonderwall]

IDK. Dinah has been such a non-entity and her and Oliver have had zero moments that could be construed as romantic. She even calls Oliver, "boss" which is the most unromantic thing ever. 

I will eat my shoe if they get together. That's how confident I am in this. And not the lame ass cookie version of it like @LeighAn posted in the ratings thread. A legit ugly ass shoe. 

[Velocity23]

9 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Where did you see that Echo only signed a one-year contract?  That's the first I've heard of that.

Its the same contract Barrowman has. He has to renew his contract every year. 

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Its the same contract Barrowman has. He has to renew his contract every year. 

How do you know that? Did it say it in the original press release?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

From the EW interview:

Quote

Though Oliver is determined to make Chase pay, that proves difficult because of Prometheus’ abduction of Oliver’s estranged girlfriend, Susan Williams (Carly Pope). “When he initially finds out,” Amell says, “it’s just very simple — ‘The first chance that I get, I’m going to kill you’ — and to this Adrian basically laughs, because Adrian has a full checkmate over his head — he has someone that Oliver cares about and if Oliver kills Chase, then that person dies.”

OMG -- they really are doubling down on how stupid Oliver is about Susan.  I thought Susan as there to stall Olicity but it turns out she's far more important than Billy was. She's the torpedo that sinking the show.

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I just get the feeling that we're stuck with JH/BC whether we like it or not.  If they don't give her a regulars contract then she could get some other full time gig and if it's a mandate, they'll have to lock in her availability.  Now if it's only a mandate through the launch of that video game, then maybe not.  Or maybe they'd make a a regular with the same limited episode count as Willa.  

We'll end up with at least one of Dinah or Rene.  Right now, I think I'd rather have JH/BC than WD.  She's another woman in the lair since Thea seems to be gone and she's less off-putting than WD.  But we may be stuck with both since they love writing Curtis/Rene so much.

Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll drop Rene entirely and put Dinah on recurring.  I agree with you though even with his new balls Curtis seems the most likely to be dropped.

30 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I think we are seeing a pivot to either a comic characters centered team in S6 - Green Arrow, Black Canary, Wild Dog & Curtis - or a move to an ensemble show like LOT.   If the former, I think Diggle & Felicity will still be around but with their importance to Green Arrow reduced.  Diggle will always be Oliver's brother.  Felicity might be the love interest and establish Smoak Technologies which would assist the team.   I do think we're seeing all the pieces put in place more subtly than we did in S3.  AK said before S3 started it was transitioning to an ensemble.  It never happened successfully.  I guess the question could be how many more heroes does Arrow have to introduce going forward?

I think they've got an ensemble, or at least as much of one as a show called Arrow with a titular hero has.  Unlike the LoT writers, this bunch really can't write a true ensemble show.

They know somewhere in their foggy brains that OTA is the money-maker in terms of the audience because they always ends their seasons with them.  Removing Felicity and Diggle from the main field puts their show in even shakier ground.

[Velocity23]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

How do you know that?

Barrowman talked at one of the SDCC how he finished negotiations for his contract just a few days before SDCC. I think that was for s4, when he already was a regular in s3. 

[theOAfc]

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

That Felicity's awesome and he's a better person when he's with her? Ok ... but didn't he already know that?

So once again the show is here to highlight how felicity is good for Oliver? Shouldnt it be about Oliver finally being good for her? To me, it seems like Oliver is desperately trying to just be happy in a relatioship with someone. To feel normal. It doesnt matter who it is as long as he gets that feeling back. Once he realised felicity is not taking him back(not that he tried to earn her back lol),he dated the first woman that approached and patted his back . He didnt even bother with the fact that she approached him and invaded his privacy to make a story out of him. Or that she harmed his sister. That's weak. Whoever sticks to him, i guess.

Its sad though because in his effort to not fail on another relationship he is proving to fight more for her,a woman he met a couple of months ago, than he ever did for felicity and that simply sucks IMO.

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, Velocity23 said:

Barrowman talked at one of the SDCC how he finished negotiations for his contract just a few days before SDCC. I think that was for s4, when he already was a regular in s3. 

No, I meant, how do you know that about Echo?  That his situation is the same as JB's?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Starfish35

[Velocity23]

Things i heard. And it doesnt make much sense to give him more than 1 year. Its most likely what newbies on LOT got and then they will see who they keep. Same on their other shows. 

[Starfish35]

So you don't know it as a fact - you're just assuming.

[Velocity23]

No just like with KC leaving the show, i am not assuming. I know Echo has a 1 year contract. 

[Starfish35]

Lol ok whatever.

[Sunshine]

I don't think Dinah & Ollie are going to become romantic. I do think they are going to have them connect on an emotional level. If you remove Diggle & Felicity from the equation, even for an episode or two, Oliver is going to need someone to interact with about his struggles.  Dinah is the character most likely to relate since Sara is on LOT.  Snoozan can't relate. If Dinah struggles Oliver will be there for her.

Anyone know what Charlotte Ross is up to these days? SA said they had a deep bench this year and he just got some good news.  Would they bring her back for Felicity in 5.20 to assist in mourning Billy?  Maybe not but I'm wondering how that is going to play out. It's possible we see nothing and just WM's way of saying Olicity isn't together yet.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Sunshine said:

Anyone know what Charlotte Ross is up to these days? SA said they had a deep bench this year and he just got some good news.  Would they bring her back for Felicity in 5.20 to assist in mourning Billy?  Maybe not but I'm wondering how that is going to play out. It's possible we see nothing and just WM's way of saying Olicity isn't together yet.

The thing is, even if they bring back Donna, I could see it mostly being about Lance. "Look, he stopped drinking! He's getting his life back on track: a job, his girlfriend, etc." They could have used Donna last year to give us some of Felicity's POV about the breakup, and instead we got the "pistachio" line. The only time Donna has been mentioned this season is connected to Lance in that stupid line I still can't believe they wrote about her being in "Heaven," meaning a casino because people apparently talk like that? 

[Velocity23]

Isnt Dinah connecting with Curtis according to JH? 

[Sunshine]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

The thing is, even if they bring back Donna, I could see it mostly being about Lance. "Look, he stopped drinking! He's getting his life back on track: a job, his girlfriend, etc." They could have used Donna last year to give us some of Felicity's POV about the breakup, and instead we got the "pistachio" line. The only time Donna has been mentioned this season is connected to Lance in that stupid line I still can't believe they wrote about her being in "Heaven," meaning a casino because people apparently talk like that? 

Not if they choose not to make it about that.  I just wondered if we would actually see Felicity mourning as in talking about it. If so, who would that be ? Kojo? Or does she just hold a picture and look sad? I always took mourning Billy as a metaphor for something else (Helix) but now I'm curious if it was an just an excuse or something more. I'm good at 1+1 = 11.

7 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Isnt Dinah connecting with Curtis according to JH? 

Both

[calliope1975]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Maybe the writers are seeing something different but I see a totally self-serving Susan.  Telling Oliver that she's going to keep his secret because he's good for the city makes zero sense.  I can see her turning against Oliver if Prometheus convinces her that he will always care more for Felicity than he does for her.  Not because Susan loves him or even cares about him that much but because that's how narcissism works.

If Snoozan is just a regular ole reporter citizen, I have to question her judgment of staying with a guy who she knows was part of the Russian mob, straight up murdered an innocent man recently (with extenuating circumstances) in addition to murdering, like, hundreds of bad guys over the years. From the unfortunate few seconds of the "afterglow" scene, I don't even believe the sex is that great. And he's not even a good mayor. A normal person would run far, far away even if she kept his secret. Yet, Plot Point McGee is smiling about their reconciliation dinner. 

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

That's it! Chase is jealous that William is Oliver's son and not his own.

Chase has clearly not seen or met the simpleton that is Spawn. 

[Belinea]

But wasn't there a spoiler that indicated Tinah might also be swayed by Prometheus and trusting her 100% might not be super smart. Am I imaging this? 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Belinea

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

straight up murdered an innocent man recently (with extenuating circumstances)

And she doesn't even know that there were extenuating circumstances, haha. All she knows is that he killed a cop. No questions asked!

[Chaser]

I always figured the emotional connection between Tinah and Oliver was in reference to 5x11 and 5x12. I didn't get the feeling that JH was talking much about specific  future scenes, esp if I compare the way she was talking about Tinah and Curtis. Idk.

I can't see the tweet. What was KP saying Nope too?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Chaser

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, Belinea said:

But wasn't there a spoiler that indicated Tinah might also be swayed by Prometheus and trusting her 100% might not be super smart. Am I imaging this? 

There was something about her being the newest team member and thus most vulnerable to Prometheus' manipulations.

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

I can't see the tweet. What was KP saying Nope too?

Usind the Melville building as location.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

There was something about her being the newest team member and thus most vulnerable to Prometheus' manipulations.

Yeah, I think DR said that in one of his interviews recently.

[tangerine95]

I'm not expecting some significant bonding for Oliver and Dinah or Oliver or any of the newbies. I took the comments about that to mostly mean 5. 11. I can see some scenes like the pep talk she gave him in 5. 12 but imo nothing so big that it requires Felicity or Digg removed. I think probably everyone on the team will in some way distance themselves from Oliver, I kinda get the feeling Prometheus wants him to be left alone and believing that he just ruins anyone he cares about and thats his big plan. 

[Sunshine]

20 minutes ago, bijoux said:

There was something about her being the newest team member and thus most vulnerable to Prometheus' manipulations.

Usind the Melville building as location.

I assume that's where Evelyn/Artemis comes into play in 5.18?  Madison was raving about JH on twitter so they might have been shooting together.

[Velocity23]

So Evelyn comes back when we have the episode titled: DISBANDED! I don't trust her! 

[tv echo]

Some transcribed spoilery portions of SA's Mar. 2nd facebook live video...

-- SA: "Uh, the new cast members that we have. And I think that we have the deepest cast that we've ever had at any point in the show. Um, I actually just got some news about that yesterday. (Laughs) Very cool stuff."

-- SA: " I will say that episode 17 and 18 this year are probably the toughest episodes that I've ever had to shoot. Ever. In the 100 and some episodes of the show. They were incredibly, incredibly challenging and taxing for me. Which is also the reason why I haven't been around on social media as much, because that does actually take a toll on me. I mean, not Daniel Day Lewis-inhabit-the-character-take-a-toll, but I spent so much time with 'Oliver' that when he's in the shit, uh, part of me is in the shit too."

-- On whether Oliver is going to see his son any time soon, SA: "We reference my son William in our next episode. So there." Fan also wrote that Oliver "basically ruined his relationship with Felicity... (SA interjected, "True") ... to have a relationship with his son... (SA interjected, "Kinda") ... but he hasn't seen him yet."

-- On why his hair is getting long, SA: "I'm just trying to make it so the sideburns that I grow here, um, meet up with my facial hair. So actually, no, there's - there's no reason. Well, there might be a little bit of a reason. And it has to do with the character arc that Oliver's going through. And... another thing you may have noticed - bags under the eyes, like darkness under the eyes, in the past several episodes. Not an accident. We have a plan on the show."

-- On why Oliver asked Felicity to help him with Susan Williams (in 515) without thinking about how she would feel about it, SA: "So, that's one question from the thread, but the thread was really populated with a generally thematic question, which is - Um, a lot of people find Oliver unlikeable this year, which is totally fine. But one of the main reasons is that Oliver sided with - 'sided with' Susan over Thea and Felicity. And a lot of people seem to think that this is something that has done almost like irreparable damage to his character. To which I have two responses. The first is, really? That was the straw that broke the camel's back? In Season 1, Oliver was a murderer who killed dozens of people and led his best friend down a dark path right into his untimely death. So that was pretty bad. In Season 2, Slade murdered his mother and Oliver's go-to move on the B side of it, after being powerless to stop it, was to ostensibly commit suicide by giving himself up to Slade. Guh. In Season 3, he turns his back on the team - I mean, there was a long-range plan, but he definitely did kidnap Diggle's wife, the mother of his child, put his kid in real danger, and actually put his wife in real danger too. So that was unfortunate. In Season 4, Oliver and Felicity built a relationship built on one thing and one thing exclusively - I mean, love and fun and bedroom antics - but primarily trust. And then he lied to her, aggressively. And then he lied to her again by omission. And she walked out on him. Like she should have. And he asked her to stay. And she said 'no'. And he knew that he deserved it. So I would say that that was bad too. Um, I think that those are four examples that I just came up off the top of my head from four seasons. I could probably come up with 20 more. Um, so I don't totally see how this would be the thing that made Oliver completely unlikeable. But maybe that brings me to the second thing. Uh, there has been a crack in Oliver's character this year. But now that we know that Prometheus is Adrian Chase, someone that has ensnared himself in Oliver's inner circle, has made him trust him, and has theoretically been manipulating him every step of the way, doesn't that begin to make sense? It does to me. I mean, I know more about where we're going, but even if I just knew what I knew through episode 15, it would still make sense to me. One last thing. Um, I think that Oliver was right for the way that he handled that situation in - I guess it would've been episode 514 and 515, for no other reason than he didn't that Susan Williams would've exposed him as the Green Arrow. And she hasn't. And he thought that Thea and Felicity went too far. And based on the fact that Susan got her job back, um, and the world didn't explode, they did. Moreover, I think that Oliver's underlying concern is with two parts. One, the fact that this is a microcosm of a larger pattern of behavior with Thea that has led her to want time away from not only the mayor's office, but everybody. So clearly, she is going through something similar to what she went through with her bloodlust last year. Currently, Felicity just joined a rogue technology organization that has questionable morals. And neither one of them is talking to Oliver about it. So, yeah, that would be my answer to that. It's okay not to like Oliver, but really? That's what did it? Everyone's entitled to their opinion."

-- On what he thinks Prometheus wants Oliver to feel in regard to each of his relationships, SA: "Great question. So Slade was very much about taking out everyone that Oliver cared for and then taking out Oliver. Whereas, what we've seen from Prometheus - who we now know to be Chase - is that he wants to destroy Oliver specifically because of actions that Oliver undertook. So I think it's far less to do with the people who are close to Oliver in his life, and much more to do with, uh, helping Oliver see a part of himself that Chase is convinced is there. And - and maybe he's right. But, it's definitely taken an effect on Oliver this year, which has a real joy and excitement to play, for me."

-- Now that we know the Vigilante isn't Adrian Chase, on whether he will be someone we least suspect, SA: "Maybe. How do we know it's a 'he'? It could be a very tall woman. But that's okay."

-- On what's coming up for Oliver and Chase, SA: "It is coming to a head. If you've seen the promo for next week's episode, you know that Oliver finds out almost immediately that Chase is Prometheus. What I really like is that Chase has put himself in a position where he doesn't have to extricate himself from  his day-to-day work. He can stay on as the District Attorney because he has thought so far ahead of Oliver this year. I mean, if you're planning something, and the other person doesn't know you're planning it, it doesn't make the person who's the victim of the scheme stupid. It means they're in the dark. And Adrian has put Oliver in checkmate, which is why, conveniently, the title of our next episode is 'Checkmate.' Um, and now that I can talk about it, I really have to lend a hand to Josh Segarra, who's been absolutely phenomenal to this year... not only as a co-worker, but as a friend and a fellow wrestling fan. Um, he's a really good dude and he's really knocked it out of the park. And, um, his ability to play Chase, uh, before we knew what we know. And his ability to just unleash the evil with this character post-515 has been really, really stunning to watch."

Edited March 3, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

I wonder if Lyla will be around for more than just 5.19. Hmm.  More reason to rely on Dinah if Diggle's with Argus. 

AA tweeted about flying to Vancouver on February 22 (first day of 519 shoot), and then about being on the set yesterday. Principal shooting for 519 ends today. Her being on set at the end of it makes sense if they're also going to use Lyla in the next episode. Chances are really good for it regardless, because they have included her in the final stretch since season 2.

[Belinea]

16 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Madison was raving about JH on twitter so they might have been shooting together.

I mean, she does seem like a nice person and nobody can fault her for wanting a steady job. Do I need a new BC? No. Do I understand that she wants a job? Of course. 

And she seems to get along with the stunt people. I think she is friends with Bam and his wife. 

12 minutes ago, tv echo said:

And I think that we have the deepest cast that we've ever had at any point in the show.

What does that mean? That they are close?

Also: He didn't answer the question about how Felicity would feel, or am I just not getting it. Maybe he just talks a lot and I still go: 'What'...

Edited March 3, 2017 by Belinea

[insomniadreams88]

The problem with Susan is that no one from the show is addressing the fact that she said she was going to do a story on Oliver to Oliver. I wonder why they even bothered to put those lines in there - unless it does come into play in an upcoming episode? - if they were just going to ignore them. Was it really just to have her go to him and basically change her tune after she found out he killed his ex-fiancee's BF? Really? And this is a character and a relationship I'm supposed to root for? 

[tv echo]

I agree that some of this season's plots could include things that might've been originally considered for previous seasons...

• S4's Oliver/Poppy flashback romance contrasting with Oliver/Felicity present day romance (We never saw this happen.) -> S5's Oliver/Susan relationship contrasting Oliver/Felicity relationship? (Less sure about this.)
• S4's Damien Darhk fighting Oliver using intellect/wits (I distinctly remember an EP interview prior to S4 where we were told that Dahrk would be unlike previous Big Bads, because Oliver would have to fight him using his intellect, not his muscle. Sorry, I can't find the source citation.) -> S5's Prometheus fighting Oliver using intellect/wits?
• S2's Slade corrupting those Oliver loves (Remember that midseason finale showing Felicity when Slade said this? And then we never saw this happen.) -> S5's Prometheus corrupting those Oliver loves?

Edited March 3, 2017 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

I've already kind of stopped caring about Vigilante, but they're going to expect me to care until season 6 to find out who's under the mask? 

[Starfish35]

Quote

“You probably will not get the answer to that in season 5.”

What.

Lol.  Wow.

[tangerine95]

About SA talking about Oliver defending Susan and going against Thea and Felicity, that was such a lame response imo. He didn't even give one. What he fails to see for me at least is that Oliver went against 2 characters we've known and in my case liked for years and he did it for the benefit of a new character that has been mostly antagonistic and shady. So even if Thea and Felicity were totally wrong which I don't think they were, imo people would have still been more likely to side with them simply because them as characters and their relationships to Oliver are well established.

All that stuff he mentioned also had more or less understandable reasons even if it was dumb and we got clear motivation for why he did it. We have zero insight into why Oliver is so sure Susan won't betray him, why he isn't reacting to the fact that she investigated him while they were in a relationship and why he even wants to be with her in the first place or just why it's okay that he kills to keep the secret but Thea getting someone fired is too much. Also it's season 5 and he's supposed to be better by now and people are expecting more. 

[Cleanqueen]

I did like the part where he said Thea and Felicity are hiding things from him as well. I mean yeah, because NOBODY on this team talks anymore, everyone is walking around with secrets.