Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

Just now, LadyChaos said:

I think its more about 'how far will Oliver go to save Susan or get back with her?'  and the answer is, not as far as it would jeopardize Felicity.

Exactly.

[statsgirl]

Do we know how long Chase has Susan?  The blog post linked on the episode thread said he's got her for 2 episodes to poison her mind.  Me, I think Chase kidnapped her to save Oliver.

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Do you think Felicity would need to be asked to help find Susan? Wouldn't she do it because it's the right thing to do?

Probably.  But it would be more gut-gripping if a desperate Oliver asked her.

The beats are off though.  This episode should have ended with Felicity refusing to work with Helix because it's the wrong thing to do.  And then when Oliver asks her to everything she can to save Susan, for the feels, she's conflicted as to how far she should go.

That assumes that they're actually interested in exploring Felicity's dark arc though, and so far I haven't seen any evidence of that.

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, statsgirl said:

That assumes that they're actually interested in exploring Felicity's dark arc though, and so far I haven't seen any evidence of that.

Yeah, I think they oversold Felicity's arc, and until I see otherwise, I feel like it's going to be as disappointing as the rest of her half-explored, deserved-better storylines. 

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Do we know how long Chase has Susan?  The blog post linked on the episode thread said he's got her for 2 episodes to poison her mind.  Me, I think Chase kidnapped her to save Oliver.

Why would he want to save Oliver? 

 

11 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Probably.  But it would be more gut-gripping if a desperate Oliver asked her.

The beats are off though.  This episode should have ended with Felicity refusing to work with Helix because it's the wrong thing to do.  And then when Oliver asks her to everything she can to save Susan, for the feels, she's conflicted as to how far she should go.

That assumes that they're actually interested in exploring Felicity's dark arc though, and so far I haven't seen any evidence of that.

Can't get willingness to do whatever it takes to get Susan be driven by a desire to get at/get close to Prometheus, and not a desire to do whatever it takes to save Oliver's girlfriend for him? 

[way2interested]

SA mentioned that the kid gets referenced in 516. Wondering if it's a Prometheus thing or if it could actually be something between Oliver and Felicity. When's their "adult conversation" coming up?

[statsgirl]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Why would he want to save Oliver?

That was a snark about Oliver's relationship with Susan.  But Prometheus has made it clear to Church, Evelyn and Vigilante that he's going to be the one to take down Oliver and Susan's doing the job for him now.

Quote

Can't get willingness to do whatever it takes to get Susan be driven by a desire to get at/get close to Prometheus, and not a desire to do whatever it takes to save Oliver's girlfriend for him? 

I'd be thrilled if they made this about Felicity wanting to get close to Prometheus and get revenge for Billy rather than it being about saving Susan for Oliver.  I don't have much faith that it will be though, everything about Billy has been Oliver-related rather than Felicity's burden.

[Thundercatmary]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

SA mentioned that the kid gets referenced in 516. Wondering if it's a Prometheus thing or if it could actually be something between Oliver and Felicity. When's their "adult conversation" coming up?

Is it possible Helix has Olivers kids location? Maybe they use that to force Felicity's hand. Just some wild speculation. :p

[apinknightmare]

Maybe he learned a lesson and he tries to make sure that Chase doesn't know he has a kid/where said kid is. 

[Trisha]

SA also mentioned that Oliver has looked tired and has had bags under his eyes in the last few eps on purpose, and there's a reason for it. Maybe he has insomnia and that's why he's acting like a dazed pod person!

I wasn't thrilled with his answer about Oliver's unlikability. With all the examples he mentioned about worse things Oliver has done in the past, at least we always knew why he thought he had to do those things. I have no idea where his head is at this season. Also, it's season 5. Should we not expect some growth?

He seemed to imply Chase remains the DA. That seems ... odd. 

[JJ928]

Did anyone else catch SA say something about he just heard something cool about the cast? I have this dreaded feeling wild pup is gonna be made a regular, and we'll be stuck with him. Lord, he's worse than Roy and I hated Roy with a passion. lol

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Trisha said:

He seemed to imply Chase remains the DA. That seems ... odd. 

I guess he can't prove Chase is Prometheus? Although I'd love to see him try to tell Star City. "Uh, so I decided to go out as mayor, yes as mayor, and find out who Prometheus is. No, the Green Arrow did not tell me because remember, last week, I told you all that he's a horrible, horrible person. But Prometheus is Adrian Chase. And I found that out from someone I met while I was in Russ - on the deserted island for five years."

[Sunshine]

1 minute ago, JJ928 said:

Did anyone else catch SA say something about he just heard something cool about the cast? I have this dreaded feeling wild pup is gonna be made a regular, and we'll be stuck with him. Lord, he's worse than Roy and I hated Roy with a passion. lol

I did.  I wondered if it was Rene or Dinah or both becoming regulars.  My guess is if that happens we might hear at Paley Fest.

[Cleanqueen]

7 minutes ago, Trisha said:

 

I wasn't thrilled with his answer about Oliver's unlikability. With all the examples he mentioned about worse things Oliver has done in the past, at least we always knew why he thought he had to do those things. I have no idea where his head is at this season. Also, it's season 5. Should we not expect some growth?

He seemed to imply Chase remains the DA. That seems ... odd. 

We only knew once the season ended and I guess we will know for this season when the season ends.  He said chase has been able to keep his job while running this con, i am not sure if he said he will keep it after being exposed. what can oliver do to him as the mayor if he indeed does stay in office.

[sara1121]

10 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I did.  I wondered if it was Rene or Dinah or both becoming regulars.  My guess is if that happens we might hear at Paley Fest.

Yeah, not sure if that is what SA is talking about, but I think Wild Dog and Tinah are very likely to be regulars next season. WD because for some inexplicable reason the writers love him and Dinah because she's BC and the female cast is so small.

Edited March 3, 2017 by sara1121

[JJ928]

4 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I did.  I wondered if it was Rene or Dinah or both becoming regulars.  My guess is if that happens we might hear at Paley Fest.

It could be both and that thought is even more terrifying tbh, because Dinah has been pretty useless. I rather have Laurel than her, at least LL had a connection with the characters, this character is just there to throw the awkward one liner. Why couldn't we have Rory and Nyssa instead? LMAO

[JJ928]

I am glad that they're not gonna drag out Oliver learning Chase is Prometheus. Oliver needs something to snap him out of whatever is going on in his head.

[statsgirl]

I'd rather have Dinah than Wild Dog on the show because she actually has useful skills, she's not as arrogant or unpleasant as WD, and they need another woman.

41 minutes ago, Trisha said:

SA also mentioned that Oliver has looked tired and has had bags under his eyes in the last few eps on purpose, and there's a reason for it. Maybe he has insomnia and that's why he's acting like a dazed pod person!

I wasn't thrilled with his answer about Oliver's unlikability. With all the examples he mentioned about worse things Oliver has done in the past, at least we always knew why he thought he had to do those things. I have no idea where his head is at this season. Also, it's season 5. Should we not expect some growth?

When he said that Oliver led Tommy down a dark path to his death, I shouted "Oliver didn't kill Tommy, Malcolm and Laurel did!"

I'd be shocked if they said that Oliver has bags under his eyes because he's depressed. But it looks like it may indeed be an acting choice.

I got the impression at the end of the talk that if we don't like this season, it's our fault.  Uh, uh boy.

Edited March 3, 2017 by statsgirl

[Sunshine]

How is Oliver going to expose Chase as Prometheus without exposing himself as the Green Arrow?  What better way to torment someone than to see them everyday and they always have to be on guard against you.

In my  area the DA is elected.  Mayor has no power over his office.

I wonder if Oliver has an emotional breakdown in 5.17-5.18?  Prometheus got inside his head.  Sometimes you have to shatter before you can pick up the pieces and emerge stronger. Originally he was all about the mask.  This year he's been more about the man.  I guess it's time to quit trying to lead separate lives and merge the personas into one man.  Oliver needs to do this by himself, for himself.  

(I really, really hope Snoozan is no longer a love interest at this point.)       

[Velocity23]

Arrow is airing 5x17 on 22nd March. No episode description was revealed yet. 

[statsgirl]

Wouldn't the kidnapping of Susan be the catalyst for a breakdown?  I know he didn't break down when Tommy died, or Moira died, or Ra's tortured him for six weeks to be Al Sahim and he was willing to let Felicity be bait for Slade and then shot up and paralyzed by Darhk but Susan being kidnapped is going to do it for him.

20 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Sometimes you have to shatter before you can pick up the pieces and emerge stronger

I was hoping that would be Felicity's story.

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I was hoping that would be Felicity's story.

It should be Felicity's story after everything she's been through. How she hasn't had a breakdown yet is a miracle. But then they'd have to remember everything she's been through. 

[Trisha]

32 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

We only knew once the season ended and I guess we will know for this season when the season ends. 

I don't think we've had to wait until the end of each season to see the motivations for all the examples SA cited. I forget what he said for S1 but in S2 after Moira's funeral, we understood why Oliver wanted it turn himself into Slade as soon as he said it. In S3 we got why he thought he should pretend to commit to the League (even if it was dumb). In S4 Susan's ultimatum explained his reasoning for lying to Felicity (I didn't agree with it, but at least it didn't come out of nowhere). Even when I thought he was at his worst, his journey used to track emotionally. We shouldn't have to wait for the finale for us to understand him. 

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Arrow is airing 5x17 on 22nd March. No episode description was revealed yet. 

So another week off after 516 then?

[Velocity23]

No. Arrow airs 5x16 on 15th March. The only break is Arrow being a repeat next week. Then they airing at least 2 episodes. 

[Cleanqueen]

Just now, Trisha said:

I don't think we've had to wait until the end of each season to see the motivations for all the examples SA cited. I forget what he said for S1 but in S2 after Moira's funeral, we understood why Oliver wanted it turn himself into Slade as soon as he said it. In S3 we got why he thought he should pretend to commit to the League (even if it was dumb). In S4 Susan's ultimatum explained his reasoning for lying to Felicity (I didn't agree with it, but at least it didn't come out of nowhere). Even when I thought he was at his worst, his journey used to track emotionally. We shouldn't have to wait for the finale for us to understand him. 

So another week off after 516 then?

sorry i meant towards the end of the season, I am sure around 20/21 just like it was standard for previous seasons. 

no break they air back to back.

[Velocity23]

[Sunshine]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

It should be Felicity's story after everything she's been through. How she hasn't had a breakdown yet is a miracle. But then they'd have to remember everything she's been through. 

I am thinking maybe 5.20 when she's still mourning Billy <eyeroll> per WM.

EBR said something at SDCC about growing apart before they could grow together.

WM did say something early in the season along the line of they were going to have to figure out what their relationship means to them.  How hard are they willing to fight for it.   Felicity appears to have started dating Billy as a distraction as much as anything else.  She can't even say it's real.  Did she have faith in him?  She wanted to protect a police detective from Prometheus.  Oliver attempted a relationship with Snoozan because she pursued him.  It was easy on his part.  She's now ready to resume the relationship because she has her job back.  She didn't believe him when he denied having anything to do with it and was pretty nasty to him right before his impeachment hearing.  Felicity, on the other hand, expressed her belief in Oliver Queen as a hero for the city as mayor.

[Trisha]

14 minutes ago, Cleanqueen said:

sorry i meant towards the end of the season, I am sure around 20/21 just like it was standard for previous seasons

Ah, got it. Yeah that makes sense for the League stuff. The suicide-by-Slade plan and BMD motivations weren't delayed though. I wish they'd go that route instead of waiting until the final handful of eps for all the mindset explanations. It might work for bingeable Netflix shows, but not as well for episodes that are doled out week by week. I've read metas that try to rationalize Oliver and Felicity's actions by hypothesizing where their heads are at, but it's not on the screen.

Also, SA seemed to imply that Chase was messing with him a lot on the job before this. I wonder what we didn't see? Was he secretly switching out the office coffee pot with decaf?

[statsgirl]

30 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Was he secretly switching out the office coffee pot with decaf?

Dosing Oliver's coffee with Xanax.  Or Prozac, that's been known to produce delusions ( I think).

[insomniadreams88]

32 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Also, SA seemed to imply that Chase was messing with him a lot on the job before this. I wonder what we didn't see? Was he secretly switching out the office coffee pot with decaf?

Maybe he hired his security detail. 

And kept changing the wifi password. And switched out his pens with a bunch that were almost out of ink so he kept having to reach for a new one. That would be so annoying. 

[calliope1975]

3 hours ago, Trisha said:

SA also mentioned that Oliver has looked tired and has had bags under his eyes in the last few eps on purpose, and there's a reason for it. Maybe he has insomnia and that's why he's acting like a dazed pod person!

It's tiring to be locked in a basement all the time. I will go down with this theory. 

[Belinea]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

And switched out his pens with a bunch that were almost out of ink so he kept having to reach for a new one. 

He probably got so depressed over that, he could no longer do anything else properly...

I didn't watch the q&a but was there anything we didn't already know? Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if they have the new BC and WD as regulars. I don't need them but I wouldn't be surprised. 

[Velocity23]

So the show changed the title of 4x17 to Kapiushon.

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/listings/20170302cw07/

 

[bijoux]

What was it originally?

[Velocity23]

Kapot

. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Velocity23

[bijoux]

I guess they consulted with someone who speaks Russian. I don't, but it apparently means hood.

[MaisyDaisy]

Didn't kapot mean the hood of a car, not actually clothing?

Does Kapiushon mean the correct type of hood?

[Velocity23]

But wasn't Kapot Olivers Bratva name?

[BkWurm1]

17 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

If knowing he is a Bratva captain doesn't faze her I don't see what can to be honest..he could have killed someone she cared about while in the Bratva but it would be redoing the poppy plot.

That reminds me that before season 4 started Poppy was supposed to be a compare and contrast relationship to Felicity (or at least I remember that being the implication).  Clearly they dropped most of the romance angle with Poppy but what if they saved the unused plot line and brought it forward to Susan?  They aren't above recycling plot lines and maybe originally Poppy was supposed to feel so betrayed that she turned on Oliver but now they will have Susan do it after Oliver has deemed her a "good" person.  Maybe it will be someone he hurt during his Bratva time or maybe it will be something he does for Anatoly in the present or maybe she'll just be convinced that since he's the GA he should have kept her safe and since he didn't, she feels betrayed.  

 

7 hours ago, way2interested said:

SA mentioned that the kid gets referenced in 516. Wondering if it's a Prometheus thing or if it could actually be something between Oliver and Felicity. When's their "adult conversation" coming up?

I'd die laughing if she feels betrayed because she finds out he has a secret kid.  

6 hours ago, Sunshine said:

I did.  I wondered if it was Rene or Dinah or both becoming regulars.  My guess is if that happens we might hear at Paley Fest.

Frankly at this point I'll be surprised if both of them aren't made into regulars.  Curtis feels more iffy than those two and really it shouldn't be like that.  

12 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

But wasn't Kapot Olivers Bratva name?

True but I'm sure they are banking on no one remembering that or caring if they do.  I guess they could spin it that it was a play on words as a way to mock him.  Personally I find it kind of funny to have him called "car hood"

[theOAfc]

I still think Susan isn't gonna go against oliver, that she isn't working for promy, that she  won't feel betrayed by oliver potentially saving felicity first.  I believe she will simply leave once she is rescued. Maybe she won't be able to take it, dating a person that is always in harms way.  I think they will part ways because she will basically dump him once she gets rescued cause of how terrified and hurt she will be. 

[Velocity23]

14 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Frankly at this point I'll be surprised if both of them aren't made into regulars.  Curtis feels more iffy than those two and really it shouldn't be like that.  

I am still not sure. I dont think it is the same situation as with EBR and MB in s1.  They were already announced in February. The only one i can see them maybe announcing during Paley is Rene. Echo was announced at beginning of April for s5! Not sure either of Dinah and even Curtis really made a huge impact for them to be promoted this soon. With Echo signing a 1 year contract i guess there is an option to not renew him.  

[LeighAn]

5 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 And switched out his pens with a bunch that were almost out of ink so he kept having to reach for a new one. That would be so annoying. 

As some one who's accounting department just switched bull point pen supplies from effective pens to cheap crappy useless pens this would cause me to go full Carrie at the prom covered in pigs blood cray cray. So I feel it.

[BkWurm1]

17 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I am still not sure. I dont think it is the same situation as with EBR and MB in s1.  They were already announced in February. The only one i can see them maybe announcing during Paley is Rene. Echo was announced at beginning of April for s5! Not sure either of Dinah and even Curtis really made a huge impact for them to be promoted this soon. With Echo signing a 1 year contract i guess there is an option to not renew him.  

I just get the feeling that we're stuck with JH/BC whether we like it or not.  If they don't give her a regulars contract then she could get some other full time gig and if it's a mandate, they'll have to lock in her availability.  Now if it's only a mandate through the launch of that video game, then maybe not.  Or maybe they'd make a a regular with the same limited episode count as Willa.  

[Velocity23]

That would be too much regular spots if they only gonna be in limited episodes. All the recurring newbies would most likely get a pay raise also. Honestly i dont see that happening. But the show might surprise me. I think it all depends what they plan to do with BC.  My actual thought was that they might try to get Audrey/Lyla more involved with the show for next season with Willas episode order getting reduced. The new BC just basically took over LLs role. 

[bijoux]

17 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

That would be too much regular spots if they only gonna be in limited episodes. All the recurring newbies would most likely get a pay raise also. Honestly i dont see that happening. But the show might surprise me. I think it all depends what they plan to do with BC.  My actual thought was that they might try to get Audrey/Lyla more involved with the show for next season with Willas episode order getting reduced. The new BC just basically took over LLs role. 

Don't get my hopes up. Seriously, that would be the best news since ever.

[Velocity23]

I just dont know whats the point of Lyla on top of Argus if they are not gonna use it at some point. 

[apinknightmare]

9 hours ago, Thundercatmary said:

Is it possible Helix has Olivers kids location? Maybe they use that to force Felicity's hand. Just some wild speculation. :p

I think this could be it - that they leverage him to get Felicity to do what they want. That would make Wendy's quote about Felicity having a better understanding of Oliver more literal, since she'd be willing to do questionable stuff to keep him a secret. 

That crayon-loving simpleton is such an inspiration!

[Midnight Lullaby]

I was working hard to forget that kid ever existed..why do they do this to me? Hahahahaha. It could also be that he comes up in the "adult conversation"?

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm intrigued by Chase's line about being 10 steps ahead in a game Oliver doesn't even know they're playing but I'm not sure I trust these writers to be able to follow through with it. Could Susan be merely a distraction that Chase actually dangled in front of Oliver knowing he would date her because he's trying to move on from Felicity (and he's moron) and he's easily distracted by a new relationship? If Chase really knows Oliver, then he would have to know Felicity. This is not Slade who only knew of Laurel's picture of doom and was easily confused. What if the end game is "destroying" Felicity through Helix, thus "destroying" Oliver? Hurting Felicity for Oliver's man pain is nothing new for the show.

It's frustrating that I could see them going with something like this, and I could also see Oliver & Felicity having a nice, emotionless conversation and him figuratively patting her on the head about her Helix troubles. Sigh.

[apinknightmare]

12 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

If Chase really knows Oliver, then he would have to know Felicity. This is not Slade who only knew of Laurel's picture of doom and was easily confused. What if the end game is "destroying" Felicity through Helix, thus "destroying" Oliver? Hurting Felicity for Oliver's man pain is nothing new for the show.

Oh, he definitely knows about Felicity. He knows she's on his team, and would have to know about Oliver and Felicity's relationship last season since it was so public. And he knows that Oliver will willingly let him go in order to protect Felicity (in 5x10).

I suppose his goal could be to hurt Oliver by hurting Felicity, but even if Chase lured her with Pandora and all that - throughout Felicity has been doing these things on her own. Chase (if he has anything to do with Helix) just put out the breadcrumbs - she's the one who followed them, so it's not like she's a passive participant in a game of Oliver's man pain.

Edited March 3, 2017 by apinknightmare

[Cleanqueen]

4 hours ago, MaisyDaisy said:

Didn't kapot mean the hood of a car, not actually clothing?

Does Kapiushon mean the correct type of hood?

Kapot means a car hood, I believe Kapiushon the correct spelling for Hood.