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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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finnaire

finnaire

I thought it was suspicious that Suzy and the PI knew who HT was.  But, Mayor Queen held a press conference and admitted to the public his death had been faked. Maybe it came with a press release identifying Human Target as his stand in?

Little details conveniently left out for us to wonder about.

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weathered1

weathered1

I've actually been hoping for quite awhile that all of Oliver's extraordinarily stupid behavior could be explained by HT having taken his place. Prometheus wanting Oliver to suffer could certainly be accomplished by a captive Oliver having to watch helplessly as HT did all of these things that so many of us have decried as being monumentally dumb, self-defeating, and that have pretty much erased all of the mental and emotional maturation he should have - and was supposed to have - achieved since the island. 

If I were in the mood to give SA any credit, I'd also say that that could explain why he's played Oliver as being so robotic and checked out for great swaths of this season. 

re: the scars and how in the hell HT would know so much about Oliver's life and past - I think those are logical questions, and as such, they're questions the writers would totally gloss over in favor of a "gotcha" twist.

I also agree that they wouldn't have introduced HT without a reason, so . . . I'm not getting my hopes up, but it would be a genuine twist that could fix some of the huge amounts of damage the writers have caused this season. FWIW, it would also lend itself to the flashforward idea, as they could skip over parts of Oliver playing catch up with his life, etc. etc. It might also fit with the spec that perhaps Susan winds up exposing another member of the team, not Oliver himself, all of which would be the product of Prometheus and HT's manipulation.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Is the biggest flaw in this theory that none of the other characters have really expressed much confusion re why he's behaving like this? I feel like we'd at least get a few double-takes or some such. 

6 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Or Barry runs back in time again, only this time there are major changes to Arrow - including the return of baby Sara. 

For me that wouldn't fix it, because I'd still know it happened the first time. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)
12 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

haha Did you guys hate Ray this much?

I really hated him. The "girls brains don't work right around cute boys" thing makes me rage to this very day.

Brandon is lovely, though, and we knew about the spinoff. At this point this feels like Guggie just being obstinate.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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weathered1

weathered1

(edited)

Personally, I didn't hate Ray this much. In this case, I loathe the reporter for many reasons: I've never warmed up to Carly Pope as an actress (she always comes off as smug and snide to me); the insistence by the show's powers that be that Susan isn't shady while they simultaneously persist in showing us that, yeah, she really is; the sheer amount of damage the "relationship" Oliver has with her creates. It's all so very pointless and stupid, and regardless of whatever resolution it has, it cannot and will not come even close to fixing what it has negatively impacted.

I also feel like this role and story were changed - likely a lot - from what was originally intended. That it's being dragged out to this extent is both infuriating (to me, anyway), perverse (there's that word again), and reads to me like they're using it so they can draw something else out - something of a romantic nature with either of the pairings (or possible pairings) in question, a possible exit for Thea, to set up a twist that they didn't have in mind at the outset, or some combination of those things.

re: why, if HT has taken Oliver's place, other characters haven't noticed - I think that could just be explained away by the writers not wanting to have overt clues that something is amiss. If the characters started openly giving dumbass, podOliver the side eye, then the audience would be clued into the fact that something was off, which lessens the impact of the twist (if it exists).

Edited by weathered1
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finnaire

finnaire

(edited)
2 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

Is the biggest flaw in this theory that none of the other characters have really expressed much confusion re why he's behaving like this? I feel like we'd at least get a few double-takes or some such. 

For me that wouldn't fix it, because I'd still know it happened the first time. 

The noobs don't know Oliver well enough to notice anything odd. Digglle has been in jail, in hiding with Wild Dong then back in jail. Quinten has been drunk and/or in rehab. Thea has spent most of her time with Quinten or out of town. And everybody here has commented on the weird behavior between Felicity and Oliver. Who's left? 

I don't buy it though. When would the exchange have happened?  Why would replacing LL/BC have been so important to anyone other than real Oliver? Also, HT seemed more like a hero than a villain to me. I can see him coming back to help Team Arrow but I don't think he's working with Prometheus.

ETA: The real question is what happened to that mask Christopher Chance ripped off and tossed to Felicity?  Mwah ha ha.

Edited by finnaire
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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

1 minute ago, weathered1 said:

Personally, I didn't hate Ray this much. In this case, I loathe the reporter for many reasons: I've never warmed up to Carly Pope as an actress (she always comes off as smug and snide to me); the insistence by the show's powers that be that Susan isn't shady while they simultaneously persist in showing us that, yeah, she really is; the sheer amount of damage the "relationship" Oliver has with her creates. It's all so very pointless and stupid, and regardless of whatever resolution it has, it cannot and will not come even close to fixing what it has negatively impacted.

 

re: why, if HT has taken Oliver's place, other characters haven't noticed - I think that could just be explained away by the writers not wanting to have overt clues that something is amiss. If the characters started openly giving dumbass, podOliver the side eye, then the audience would be clued into the fact that something was off, which lessens the impact of the twist (if it exists).

I refuse to watch this season of Suits because I can't stand her and love Louis Litt. So it's like she's plaguing my TV! And I actually really disliked her on Suits BEFORE I even knew she was cast to play the reporter on Arrow! Agree with you on the constant smug and snide expressions!

I don't think these people are smart enough to pull off the HT theory. It is more than likely (and realistic) that they are just bad writers who don't realise Oliver looks like a moron. I didn't watch 513 but did they have Wild Dong draft a bill with Oliver? Can WD even read and write???

My other theory is that this season is a steaming pile of turd already and they are getting hammered so they are just going to keep on rolling with whatever bad plan they have in place. I don't see how they can fix this season. One just hopes they learn something for S6! Because being who they are, they could just walk back everything this season and start s6 fresh if they wanted to. 

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weathered1

weathered1

7 minutes ago, finnaire said:

The noobs don't know Oliver well enough to notice anything odd. Digglle has been in jail, in hiding with Wild Dong then back in jail. Quinten has been drunk and/or in rehab. Thea has spent most of her time with Quinten or out of town. And everybody here has commented on the weird behavior between Felicity and Oliver. Who's left? 

I don't buy it though. When would the exchange have happened?  Why would replacing LL/BC have been so important to anyone other than real Oliver? Also, HT seemed more like a hero than a villain to me. I can see him coming back to help Team Arrow but I don't think he's working with Prometheus.

That's a really good possible explanation of why there's been so much focus on the noobs and very little on Oliver's interactions with the people who know him best.

HT could be a victim of Prometheus' manipulations or blackmail or something. 

When would the switch have occurred . . . that's the main sticking point, I think, because I feel like some things Oliver had to be there for, i.e., all of the BC stuff, etc. I wonder if it's at all possible - and I'm certainly not saying it is - that HT and Oliver worked something out, that HT would take his place at certain times, in certain situations for . . . I don't know, reasons. Does it make sense? Not really. Has that ever stopped this show before? Nope. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
14 minutes ago, finnaire said:

I don't buy it though. When would the exchange have happened?  Why would replacing LL/BC have been so important to anyone other than real Oliver? 

It wouldn't have been. My guess would be sometime recently - this past ep with Oliver calling off the cover-up of Billy's murder and refusal to ask Susan to back off of her investigation is really the only thing that made me think of Human Target. Because it makes zero sense that Oliver would want to get caught - but he's basically ensuring that he will be. It just doesn't make sense (Arrow's tag line!) that the writers would go that route when all they'd have to do if they want the story to come out from someone who isn't Susan is have Chase give a throwaway line about how one of the cops on the scene decided to talk after all. 

I mean, I'm not counting out that the writers are that stupid - obviously they can be and have been! That just seems like going the extra mile to make your main character look extra dumb when there's a super simple explanation at the ready.

Edited by apinknightmare
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weathered1

weathered1

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

Can WD even read and write???

My other theory is that this season is a steaming pile of turd already and they are getting hammered so they are just going to keep on rolling with whatever bad plan they have in place. I don't see how they can fix this season. One just hopes they learn something for S6! Because being who they are, they could just walk back everything this season and start s6 fresh if they wanted to. 

re: the first question: I don't think so. I loathe WD almost as much as the reporter, and as it happens, the actor is another one I've never liked. In anything. 

re: the second part: therein lies the rub. I'm not sure they think there's anything that needs to be fixed. Yes, ratings are down and the social media activity is not what it used to be, but they're still getting buzz and the show still got renewed. They really seem to be digging in their heels regarding things that a majority of viewers simply do not like and to which they/we have not responded well at all: WD, Susan, etc. etc. It's almost like the more people share their dislike of those things, the longer they're dragged out and the more attention they get. They don't seem to be writing the show for the viewers and fans anymore, which is . . . an odd way to do business. They're pushing their agenda (and/or possibly the agenda of people higher up on the food chain), and that's all that seems to matter to them.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

2 minutes ago, weathered1 said:

They really seem to be digging in their heels regarding things that a majority of viewers simply do not like and to which they/we have not responded well at all: WD, Susan, etc. etc. It's almost like the more people share their dislike of those things, the longer they're dragged out and the more attention they get. 

They really are such stubborn children.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

Cool, thanks. I just didn't know why people were getting worked up over CP being in 518 again, ha!

I AM SO TIRED OF HER FACE!!!

Seriously, though, I want her gone. I don't like the actress or the character. I don't care if Oliver remains single, reconciles with Felicity, or bangs NuBC, I JUST WANT THE STUPID REPORTER GONE.

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

Just now, AyChihuahua said:

I AM SO TIRED OF HER FACE!!!

Seriously, though, I want her gone. I don't like the actress or the character. I don't care if Oliver remains single, reconciles with Felicity, or bangs NuBC, I JUST WANT THE STUPID REPORTER GONE.

Bahaha they've worn you down hun!!!! They've broken you! I bet the plan is keep that wretched reporter around and claim she's good until the audience and shippers beg for Oliver to bang nuBC just to get away from the reporter!

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way2interested

way2interested

5 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I AM SO TIRED OF HER FACE!!!

Seriously, though, I want her gone. I don't like the actress or the character. I don't care if Oliver remains single, reconciles with Felicity, or bangs NuBC, I JUST WANT THE STUPID REPORTER GONE.

Oh I don't disagree with wanting her gone at all. I was just concerned that that tweet meant she was also in 519 as well, since KP already said she was in 518.

At this point I just keep hoping every current episode filming with her is her last episode, so seeing people talk about her still being around made me worried that she was now confirmed for 519.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

5 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I AM SO TIRED OF HER FACE!!!

Seriously, though, I want her gone. I don't like the actress or the character. I don't care if Oliver remains single, reconciles with Felicity, or bangs NuBC, I JUST WANT THE STUPID REPORTER GONE.

Yep. (Except don't mention Oliver banging Tinah. I don't even want to think about that.) 

I'm also annoyed because the longer she's around, the more we're likely to see Oliver being stupid. We've had enough stupid Oliver already this season to last 5 seasons. 

And I'm just annoyed that we keep hearing about her filming another episode when we only have Thea for 14 - and she just keeps pointing out Susan isn't a good person only for Oliver to defend her. I don't want to see that conversation repeated again and again but we'll probably get that. 

Then there's the fact that they've apparently wanted to do a reporter storyline since S1? I saw that on Twitter this week. And I have to wonder what the plan was then and how it changed - and why they were so determined to bring in this character when I can't see anything about her I like. There was so much potential with a reporter and they just decided to do this. Plus, there are other reporters in Star City more deserving of every story Susan could possibly write. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

It's telling that so many of us are jumping on the "Oliver has been replaced" theories as the only way to make sense of this season.

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

haha Did you guys hate Ray this much?

I hated how stupid Ray made Felicity but I didn't hate Ray.  I hate how stupid Susan makes Oliver but I hate Susan as a character too.

I do hate Susan, and I'm not impressed by Rene or Tinah or Curtis this season. There is altogether too much time spent this season on characters I wish would just go away.

16 hours ago, tv echo said:

Tinah got Laurel's name and Sara's bo staff. She's got cop training and some bo staff training while undercover with the Pilgrims(!), so now she's apparently an expert bo staff user? Waiting for the weapons-switching fight scene with Oliver, where she fights as if she had League training like Sara...

She really is a paint-by-numbers latest version of the newest Black Canary. They're not even trying any more.

11 hours ago, Chaser said:

Is there any spoiler indicating HT is coming back?

I thought the actor tweeted that he would be back.

ETA:

Quote

She'll likely be around the rest of the season if she's gonna be the person to bring Talia around in the present

The  last three episodes of a season tend to take place within one day so my fingers are crossed she'll be gone after 5x20.

Edited by statsgirl
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

30 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Oh I don't disagree with wanting her gone at all. I was just concerned that that tweet meant she was also in 519 as well, since KP already said she was in 518.

At this point I just keep hoping every current episode filming with her is her last episode, so seeing people talk about her still being around made me worried that she was now confirmed for 519.

SHE IS NEVER GOING TO LEAVE. SHE IS THE COCKROACH OF ARROW.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

If Rayporter is to follow that pattern of previous years and previous love interests for Oliver or Felicity, then she's probably going to be around in some capacity til the end of the season even if she's not with Oliver that long.  Sara broke up with Oliver, left and then came back for the final episodes.  Ray was only gone like one episode after they broke up.  Unless she dies like Thea's unlucky campaign manager then I'd say she's going to be back in the final episodes.  Even Poppy stuck around til the end.  

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Noooooooooo!

Ray and Sara were both fighters needed for the big battles at the end of the season.  Poppy was in the flashbacks and needed to wrap up that story.

While the pen may be mightier than the sword, I can't see how Susan would be useful in any capacity in the big season finale.  She's like Alex, someone to manipulate the story to get to a certain point and then not relevant any more.  I need Oliver to dump her by 5x20.

Edited by statsgirl
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

6 minutes ago, statsgirl said:
Quote

Anhedonia is the inability to experience pleasure from activities usually found enjoyable, e.g. exercise, hobbies, singing, sexual activities or social interactions. Anhedonia can be a characteristic of mental disorders [snip] "chronic feelings of emptiness." Results indicate that emptiness is negligibly related to boredom, is closely related to feeling hopeless, pathologically lonely, and isolated, and is a robust predictor of depression and suicidal ideation (but not anxiety or suicide attempts). Findings are consistent with DSM-IV revisions regarding the 7th criterion for Borderline Personality Disorder. In addition, findings suggest the emptiness reflects pathologically low positive affect and significant psychiatric distress

Sexual anhedonia in males is also known as 'ejaculatory anhedonia'. This condition means that the person will ejaculate with no accompanying sense of pleasure.

Well that would explain that look on Oliver's face with Rayporter in bed.  

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

Susan for me is like Ray at his worst moments so I think I hate her presence more. I only wanted to throw something at him when he kept stalking Felicity trying to force her to work for him right after Sara's death and in episode 17 when he was an arrogant douche and they made her apologize to him. UGH. I want to throw something at Susan all the times she is on screen, LOL. Also I think with Ray the writers wanted us to love him while with Susan they are writing her as manipulative and had Thea insult her so I think they are fine with the audience disliking her. There's also the actress that imo doesn't play her as a likeable person.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)
6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I do hate Susan, and I'm not impressed by Rene or Tinah or Curtis this season. There is altogether too much time spent this season on characters I wish would just go away.

She really is a paint-by-numbers latest version of the newest Black Canary. They're not even trying any more.

ITA.  I fear that what MG's comment about all online theories being wrong meant is that Oliver proposes to Susan at this season's end and she returns as a regular next season (as Star City's star reporter).

In a future episode, we'll learn that Tinah also went undercover with a street gang that liked to do martial arts and that's how she got her martial arts training.

Edited by tv echo
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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

I don't think Reporter is hanging around for S6.

I hope that every time Oliver comes up with a questionable idea in the future the Team reminds him he sexed up Rita Skeeter.

Edited by Chaser
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strikera0

strikera0

Quote

Tinah got Laurel's name and Sara's bo staff. She's got cop training and some bo staff training while undercover with the Pilgrims(!), so now she's apparently an expert bo staff user? Waiting for the weapons-switching fight scene with Oliver, where she fights as if she had League training like Sara...

Yeah, the Pilgrims story was hella lame. Would it have been so hard to reveal that Dinah was a hyperactive child and her mom decided to enroll her in a martial arts school when she was 5-years-old to keep her busy?

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I feel like every time she's around (or not, if you're Oliver apparently and think she's a "good person" and "good reporter"), they want to act like she's the only and best reporter in the city. But then you have scenes like the press conference in 513, which remind you, "Hey, look, other reporters who are actually good at their job!"

There is nothing she could do in the final episodes that another reporter couldn't unless it's to somehow hurt Oliver or someone else with the information she's found. If for some reason Oliver wants to give an exclusive about how he's GA, it doesn't have to be - and shouldn't be - to her. It can be to any reporter because all the information should be coming from him, not from whatever she dug up on him. 

I'm also at the point that I don't want her to be tied to Talia in any way because that means seeing more of Susan. Just no. (But since that "tattoo" was apparently just a bad makeup job/directing choice, I don't think there is going to be a connection.) 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

 I don't want to see any more of Susan but if linking her to Talia means that she has a purpose other than to make Oliver look like an idiot and shows that she's definitely in the black hat camp, I'll suck it up.

6 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Would it have been so hard to reveal that Dinah was a hyperactive child and her mom decided to enroll her in a martial arts school when she was 5-years-old to keep her busy?

I love that idea.  It's realistic, because hyperactive kids do benefit from martial arts, and it explains why she's so good at it without the five boxing lessons equivalent.

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

I think whatever role skeevy reporter pays..... the relationship angle will be over by 516 or 519 at the latest, everything after will be her redemption crap after Oliver knows the truth..... I'm still betting their over in 516, and the 518 scene will be her either pleading with Oliver in apology or continuing her research.

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