Spoiler Discussion Thread

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I think Felicity is gonna have bigger issues than the reporter. 

Oh I agree. It just felt like a strange choice to not show her last time and I wonder if they'll make the same decision next time. It felt too much like they went out of their way to skip her. I'm also thinking about it from the standpoint of Felicity thinking hunting down Prometheus should be priority. 

[tangerine95]

Yeah Felicity is probably going to be too busy with her dark storyline to be involved in anything Susan related imo. And I hope she isn't, thats Oliver's gross mess, he should be the only one affected by it.

Tbh as annoying as the temp LIs are I don't think much time has been spent on them. Billy literally got like one or maybe sometimes two scenes an episode over the course of 7 eps he was in and the Susan and Oliver thing was also a few scene and it looks like she won't be showing up until 5. 12 tho they're so gross and stupid it feels like a lot more. Compared to Ray in season 3 or Sara in season 2, it's way less. What's stupid is talking about these LI in interviews like it's anything relevant or like its something they want people to invest in, everyone knows it not so I don't get this overhyping they're doing. Maybe they just want any reaction, even a negative one. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by tangerine95

[apinknightmare]

My hopes for Oliver and the reporter are:

1. He doesn't tell her about being Green Arrow. This is my biggest fear. 

2. That Oliver/the team find out that she's digging for info behind Oliver's back before she does something that reveals herself. 

3. That the revelation of her digging for info leads to a breakup. At this point I'm only slightly concerned that it won't, because of SA's whole "she's just a reporter following an interesting story about the mayor of her city" thing along with his comment that Susan isn't Isabel 2.0 seems like a preemptive strike against accusations of Oliver's stupidity because of this storyline. And then there's Wendy's comments about them having real feels. I know it's an oversell, and I'm not thinking that it's going to be a grand love story or anything, but I'm hoping the feels just compel Susan to not rat Oliver out, and don't compel Oliver to continue a relationship with someone who he shouldn't have trusted ever, but anvil-to-the-head shouldn't trust at that point (whether she reveals her motives to him or he finds out about them on his own). 

I don't at this point think that we can take much from CP's filming schedule regarding the timeline of how this whole plot line plays out. If we get to filming 15 or something and she still hasn't been around, then maybe. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by apinknightmare

[tv echo]

17 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

Not that I have ever heard.

@tv echo?

SA has said both on facebook (Jan. 7, 2016) and at HVFF-San Jose (Aug. 28, 2016) that he's signed through 2019...

At HVFF-San Jose (Aug. 28, 2016), SA: "I'm signed through seven seasons of Arrow."

As for EBR, I don't know how long her contract runs and have only seen fan reports that she signed a multiyear contract. Example: http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/101856457803/just-because-the-olicity-part-of-the-arrow-fandom

However, I wasn't collecting Arrow-related news quite as comprehensively during S1 and S2, so I probably missed a lot of info back then.

Edited December 31, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I think that, because the past four seasons have had more or less steady ratings, the EPs became overconfident that Arrow had a solid base of hardcore fans who would watch the show no matter what and regardless of which online fandoms they alienated.  But that's turning out not to be the case.

You know what's interesting? The back half of S5 starts off with a cavalcade of past, present and possibly future love interests for Oliver.  510 focuses on 'Laurel' (or who Oliver believes to be Laurel).  511 debuts Tina.  And 512 features Susan (if CP's IMDB page is correct).  

Meanwhile, Felicity is apparently going to have a storyline that doesn't involve her relationship with Oliver.

So when WM said that "both sides provide — having [Oliver & Felicity] together and apart —  certain types of storytelling opportunities," I guess that this is what she meant by the "apart" side. (Quote from Dec. 19, 2016 Blastr article, page 50 of Spoilers thread)

Edited December 31, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

I find it hard to believe that people still think Tina is still a possible LI. Especially since the reporter doesn't seem like a one time hook up. 

[AyChihuahua]

I don't understand the idea that being realistic about a show that often does very strange things is either rude or somehow "hip," but I also never said that they were killing off Felicity or killing Olicity. I merely said I don't understand the utter conviction that of course they're not. Being 99% sure seems reasonable, but being 100% sure doesn't.  

15 minutes ago, tv echo said:

SA has said both on facebook (Jan. 7, 2016) and at HVFF-San Jose (Aug. 28, 2016) that he's signed through 2019...

At HVFF-San Jose (Aug. 28, 2016), SA: "I'm signed through seven seasons of Arrow."

 

As for EBR, I don't know how long her contract runs and have only seen fan reports that she signed a multiyear contract. Example: http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/101856457803/just-because-the-olicity-part-of-the-arrow-fandom

However, I wasn't collecting Arrow-related news quite as comprehensively during S1 and S2, so I probably missed a lot of info back then.

So as I thought, we have no idea how long EBR's contract is. (Although if the EPs have any brains at all they would have signed her through Steve's contract.)

[Velocity23]

From what i heard that is what they did. Also EBR got a paycheck boost at the same time KC lost the same amount of her pay. 

[statsgirl]

MG tweeted yesterday about Spoiler TVs year end stats and how Arrow is #1 now. As far as he's concerned, the show is doing just great.

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

I actually liked SA'a approach about how Susan might not turn out like Isobel because feelings become involved (I just think his quote came out way too soon).  But WM talking it up like this is Oliver's next big "genuine" love story makes zero sense from a promotional point of view - and is clearly a lie, since it appears CP is no longer filming. What is the point? She's just going to lose more trust from the hardcore fans who follow the show closely, while the general fans are going to take her word for it and tune out. There's over 100 comments on that article now and no one is rooting for Susan. And it's not just Olicity fans commenting; it's general Arrow fans who can't believe how dumb their hero has become. I don't get how WM thought this could possibly help. 

There are two posters who like the storyline.  From what I can tell, they're both guys who think Oliver should be getting sex anytime he can because his life is so hard.  If it's a bad woman, it just makes the sex hotter.

I think they are the fanbase the show is appealing to this season.

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

3. That the revelation of her digging for info leads to a breakup. At this point I'm only slightly concerned that it won't, because of SA's whole "she's just a reporter following an interesting story about the mayor of her city" thing along with his comment that Susan isn't Isabel 2.0 seems like a preemptive strike against accusations of Oliver's stupidity because of this storyline. And then there's Wendy's comments about them having real feels. I know it's an oversell, and I'm not thinking that it's going to be a grand love story or anything, but I'm hoping the feels just compel Susan to not rat Oliver out, and don't compel Oliver to continue a relationship with someone who he shouldn't have trusted ever, but anvil-to-the-head shouldn't trust at that point (whether she reveals her motives to him or he finds out about them on his own).
 

I'm hoping the opposite -- that she is playing him and does rat him out because this storyline makes Oliver so all out stupid that I want it to be out there and apparent to all.  I want Diggle to keep hitting him upside the head for it, and Thea to tell him that maybe she should take over his mayor's duties because  he clearly can't handle them.

If Oliver's magic penis causes Susan to change sides and make it a "genuine relationship", it will excuse not only Oliver's behaviour, including going to Susan after killing Billy while Felicity cried alone, but all this whole revolting storyline.  A big NOPE to that from me.

1 hour ago, insomniadreams88 said:

What bugs me is how much time they're spending on these random LIs for Oliver and Felicity, especially since I think that if a reunion is coming, they're going to end up rushing through it or have it happen before a break (probably between seasons). They want to write away from the Olicity romance but I don't see the point of focusing on these other relationships like they are.

I'm starting to wonder if Oliver and Felicity will get together at all this season. I think it would be an extremely stupid move to keep them apart through the summer but this season has been full of extremely stupid show-running moves.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

I'm starting to wonder if Oliver and Felicity will get together at all this season. I think it would be an extremely stupid move to keep them apart through the summer but this season has been full of extremely stupid show-running moves.

Same sometimes. I also sometimes wonder if, after whatever it is Felicity does, she decides she needs a break and is the one to leave town after they take down Prometheus. But because he's mayor (if he still is at the end of the season), Oliver can't go with her, so they'll decide not to get them back together.

[AyChihuahua]

8 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Same sometimes. I also sometimes wonder if, after whatever it is Felicity does, she decides she needs a break and is the one to leave town after they take down Prometheus. But because he's mayor (if he still is at the end of the season), Oliver can't go with her, so they'll decide not to get them back together.

It would make sense for her to take some time away, if she goes dark. Find out who she really is, yadda yadda. Maybe her dad shows up and she leaves to get to know him. They can pull a Buffy/Riley and have Oliver just miss catching her.

[way2interested]

12 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Same sometimes. I also sometimes wonder if, after whatever it is Felicity does, she decides she needs a break and is the one to leave town after they take down Prometheus. But because he's mayor (if he still is at the end of the season), Oliver can't go with her, so they'll decide not to get them back together.

That would leave the romance subplot up in the air completely though, or in almost the exact same spot as last year only more apart. If this year is supposed to be about looking at the dynamics of Oliver and Felicity apart (but still together as partners, according to EPs), then only going more apart wouldn't be much of a switch going into a new season, and wouldn't change dynamics much at all unless they decided to make it a focus unlike this year. 

Also, unless Tina ends up his LI at the end of the season, the back portion of the season would be completely sans romantic subplot (which, sure, the EPs said they were writing away from romance at the same time they introduced 2 possibly 3 new LIs and as they write a show that has done 4 years of romantic subplots), which honestly I can't picture happening. I get 4b ended without really much, but the break-up was still 415/416, and elements of it still showed up in moments in 419,420, and 423. Idk where exactly I'm going with this, but I guess Tina would either have to be established as a long-term LI going from latter part of 4b on or Oliver and Felicity would show some hint of reconnection. Felicity could always leave at the end I guess, but I would wonder what kind of dynamic they would be going for.

Idk that's too much forward thinking for me.

[calliope1975]

2 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Also, unless Tina ends up his LI at the end of the season, the back portion of the season would be completely sans romantic subplot (which, sure, the EPs said they were writing away from romance at the same time they introduced 2 possibly 3 new LIs and as they write a show that has done 4 years of romantic subplots), which honestly I can't picture happening.

Yes, it will be done as well as Mayo's romantic plot, but could the reporter fulfill the romantic subplot in 5b? I suppose we could explore WD's love life since he's the show's golden child at the moment, or would the romance have to be connected to Oliver?

I'm also beginning to think that they're going to ignore Olicity until S6, which WM floated in interviews, or they'll be thrown together at the last moment in the last episode a la S3. Then, they don't have to write for it but get to pat themselves on the back and say, see? This was the plan all along. 

[LeighAn]

26 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

I'm starting to wonder if Oliver and Felicity will get together at all this season. I think it would be an extremely stupid move to keep them apart through the summer but this season has been full of extremely stupid show-running moves.

Well the only episode we know for (relatively) sure Carly is in is 5x12 and then the paps were saying she was filming during 5x13 or 5x14 when she was tweeting she was in Australia. 

But it makes me inclined to believe this relationship is going to be confined to one or two eps. Like have Oliver reference dating Susan in 5x10 and 5x11 open 5x12 with them having (not so) sexy times and then reveal of her researching Oliver behind his back and all that drama and then maybe one possibly two eps of aftermath and end chapter.

I mean in season 3 they had Felicity having an implied romantic attraction to Ray while mourning presumed dead Oliver (remember the creepy cheek first aid heart eyes scene) then building on that to sex in 3x15, dating till 3x20 and then breaking up and they still had Oliver and Felicity get together in the end and have their own emotional build up through almost every episode despite the fact Felicity was with Ray.

So there's still time to build up to a reunion and put Olicity back together. Whether it will be emotionally satisfying to the audience is tbd but it's not out of the question.

As @way2interested from a story telling view and the way story beats typically go it would be a very odd choice for Olicity to end another season ambiguously and undefined. 

They ended the premiere episode with Diggle asking Oliver if he and Felicity will get back together with Oliver answering his not sure thereby starting the season as posing Olicity reuniting as a question mark. It makes sense with the full circle writing style of the Arrow writers that they'll answer that question by the end of the season. 

[way2interested]

Just now, calliope1975 said:

Yes, it will be done as well as Mayo's romantic plot, but could the reporter fulfill the romantic subplot in 5b? I suppose we could explore WD's love life since he's the show's golden child at the moment, or would the romance have to be connected to Oliver?

That's what I'm curious about. I'm going with the reporter will be done 512 when everything comes out, but if she's actually sticking around in off-screensville then I would say possibly, although until when? 515? 520? 523?. If not, then we're talking 513-523 of no romantic subplot for Oliver, unless Olicity comes back into play or Tina becomes a LI. Idk about WD's love life unless it ends up being Thea (please no) or Tina, but the show for the last 4 years have had Oliver have a romance in the background, so for them to completely drop romance for Oliver completely seems odd to me.

4 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm also beginning to think that they're going to ignore Olicity until S6, which WM floated in interviews, or they'll be thrown together at the last moment in the last episode a la S3. Then, they don't have to write for it but get to pat themselves on the back and say, see? This was the plan all along. 

 Partially going with this. Like, s6's dynamic might actually be the growing closer together dynamic that some people wanted this season, unless there's a last minute s2/s3-ish twist get back together in 523.

[Velocity23]

I am sorry but the Tina angle just doesnt fly. If Susan is still an issue by 5x12. Because we all know we will get to see at least the post-coitus scene around 5x12 with the reporter and Oliver. And then whatever happened with Susan will still play into during 5x12 and 5x15. If Tina was being geared into a  LI for the lead Susan would not have such an important part with Oliver. We would have gotten some flirty flirt and Susan being shady as hell. But we are getting clobbered over with the "genuine feels". Just like they did in s2 with Isobel and Sara. There is just too much build up with Susan. 

[AyChihuahua]

38 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Also, unless Tina ends up his LI at the end of the season, the back portion of the season would be completely sans romantic subplot (which, sure, the EPs said they were writing away from romance at the same time they introduced 2 possibly 3 new LIs and as they write a show that has done 4 years of romantic subplots), which honestly I can't picture happening.

I'm wondering if there'll be some flashback romance with Talia. I agree they'll want some romance somewhere, so maybe that's it. (I also think Lexa Doig is very pretty.)

Edited December 31, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Cleanqueen]

CP was on set when they were filming 5x13 so she could've perhaps filmed her scenes for 5x12 and seeing as she hardly has any screen time, it would be easier to squeeze in a scene or two for her as a pick up. 

Does anyone know if she was in Toronto filming Suits when Stephen mentioned the shirtless scene. I know some think that he filmed that scene with her instead.

[Cleanqueen]

5 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I'm wondering if there'll be some flashback romance with Talia. I agree they'll want some romance somewhere, so maybe that's it. (I also think Lexa Doig is very pretty.)

It's been a long time since there was flashback romance so I think him and Lexa will share some hot, sizzling scenes...lol. Definitely hotter than with Suuuuzy

[insomniadreams88]

11 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I'm wondering if there'll be some flashback romance with Talia. I agree they'll want some romance somewhere, so maybe that's it. (I also think Lexa Doig is very pretty.)

Maybe they'll do a lunge in the flashbacks. 

[Velocity23]

I am honestly seeing parallels to s3 to Ray/Felicity with the way they handling Susan/Oliver. The first encounter is kind of bad in both cases. Then we have 3x07 where Felicity goes on a date with Ray. 5x07 we get to see Oliver taking the reporter out for a drink. 3x09 had a little Ray/Felicity moment and then the declaration by Oliver before he went off to NP. And then we had Felicity and Ray get closer while Oliver was presumed dead. in 5x09 we saw reporter/Oliver on a date and that weird interactions with Felicity/mayo cop. A sweet Olicity flashback and Oliver confiding in the reporter after he killed mayo. Just like Oliver was removed from the equation while Felicity got closer to Ray i think Oliver will get closer to reporter while Felicity is trying to get Prometheus. But since Felicity just adding another team to lead and not actually dying that we will see the hook up around 5x12. 

[Carrie Ann]

33 minutes ago, way2interested said:

But the show for the last 4 years have had Oliver have a romance in the background, so for them to completely drop romance for Oliver completely seems odd to me.

But what about Oliver's romance with The City??? It's the most important relationship on the show, in case you forgot. ;)

I'm actually only partially kidding. For this season, as the closing of a chapter or whatever they've been saying, I could see them not addressing Oliver's romantic life much as the season comes to an end. Had their original plan worked out (L/O), I do think it would have been a focus, because success/failure in his love life has always been tied to his personal growth. And I think the season will end on a positive, hopeful note, where Oliver has self-actualized (or come close, until next season when he forgets everything he's learned or whatever), so it would make sense to show how that growth impacts his personal life.

But because they've had to rethink so many aspects of their original plans, and because they have yet to change their PR tune at all--not even hints yet about anything to do with O/F this season--I'm not sure they will reunite in S5. I do lean toward the O/F story being picked up again around 520-523, because I think they will at least want it in the air over summer hiatus. I could see it going either way--either they reunite, or they appear to be on a path toward it but not actually together--but that S6 comment did not help make me feel more optimistic about it coming sooner than later.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[Velocity23]

I have serious doubt WB is gonna go that route especially seeing how they made the supercut Olicity promo for the s4 DVD. That was a major sign for me. They are not gonna do the ambiguous s5 finale again. Also i very doubt any CW show is gonna keep their main couple apart for that long. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

9 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

But what about Oliver's romance with The City??? It's the most important relationship on the show, in case you forgot.

I hope the City kicks his ass for cheating :)  Did they ever confirm it was Star City - Oliver has spent a lot of time in other places this year.  Perhaps we have yet to meet his true city love. 

Did LOT confirm that Talia and Nyssa were sisters?  I guess sleeping with one sister and fake marrying the other is still a step-up from Oliver's interaction with the Lance sisters.  Between the plot point writing, returns from the dead, and ridiculous family trees and interactions I sometimes wonder if the writers are watching too much General Hospital. 

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

But what about Oliver's romance with The City??? It's the most important relationship on the show, in case you forgot. ;)

That's why he's with the reporter! He got confused and figured she represented the city. You know, woman writing about the city = the city itself. I mean, Oliver is kind of stupid right now. 

[tangerine95]

I honestly don't think they'll do another ambiguous olicity ending and I don't see them doing an entire season with no olicity. This stall has been going on since 4. 15,i would be surprised if it went into season 6. 

Imo they won't talk about olicity or hint at a reunion as long as one of them is with a temp LI because they never have. When Oliver was with Sara they acted like olicity was always platonic and in season 3 they redirected olicity questions to talk about Ray. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by tangerine95

[Featherhat]

Quote

Did LOT confirm that Talia and Nyssa were sisters?

Yes, Sara and Ra's had a conversation about it where she basically sets up her own rescue by Nyssa.

[way2interested]

33 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I'm wondering if there'll be some flashback romance with Talia. I agree they'll want some romance somewhere, so maybe that's it. (I also think Lexa Doig is very pretty.)

Maybe (although I guess they might ignore the fact that Talia is supposed to be in her 50s from LoT and focus more on the idea that she looks like Lexa Doig), although I have no idea how many episodes she's in, and idk if that's going to last incrementally enough for the rest of 5b or be relevant to anything if it's a flashback romance.

20 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

But what about Oliver's romance with The City??? It's the most important relationship on the show, in case you forgot. ;)

I'm actually only partially kidding. For this season, as the closing of a chapter or whatever they've been saying, I could see them not addressing Oliver's romantic life much as the season comes to an end. Had their original plan worked out (L/O), I do think it would have been a focus, because success/failure in his love life has always been tied to his personal growth. And I think the season will end on a positive, hopeful note, where Oliver has self-actualized (or come close, until next season when he forgets everything he's learned or whatever), so it would make sense to show how that growth impacts his personal life.

  Then, dang, when's that sex scene coming?

That's the thing with me, though. Oliver's love life has always been tied to his growth despite changes in the original plan, and I could even argue that for the end of s4 (Olicity aren't together together, but they are together, and that's enough hope for right then and likewise there's enough hope that Oliver can do his mayor/GA thing because he himself has enough light, hope, and dedication) and even a little bit, me kind of reaching, for s5 (Oliver has to learn yet again to trust other people on the team, likewise Oliver is going through a romance subplot of letting someone new-the completely wrong person in context- into his life). Going beyond Susan, idk what kind of love subplot could represent (correctly or incorrectly) a type of personal growth. Tina could represent an embrace in someone new again and legacy and moving forward (like Susan or actually be a better person), or starting to rekindle with Felicity could represent dealing with past mistakes at the core and pushing through them for the sake of the good sides of the relationship in spite of the bad (and would you look at that, that could apply to Oliver's issues with being GA now given the Prometheus plot).

Sticking with Susan or dropping romance completely with Oliver (or leaving it in the flashbacks) would just be abruptly dropping a pattern they've used for like the last 3 years.

[lemotomato]

31 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

But because they've had to rethink so many aspects of their original plans, and because they have yet to change their PR tune at all--not even hints yet about anything to do with O/F this season--I'm not sure they will reunite in S5.

During winter hiatus of season 3, this is what SA said when asked about Olicity:

Quote

"She's slightly unattainable for me, and my character is dead."

This is what EBR said about Felicity/Olicity at Paleyfest in March 2015, which happened right after 315 aired, but also while they were in the middle of filming 320, 

Quote

"And she's like, hell no. I don't want to deal with somebody that's only going to give half of your emotions as a love interest. But she still cares deeply for him."

"She needs the time to go explore other options, she needs that nourishment and support and love and Oliver does want that for her."

I just wouldn't make predictions based on the PR, is all I'm saying.

[statsgirl]

When Buffy missed Riley's helicopter, it indicated that the relationship was done, kaput.  I don't think they want to do that for Oliver and Felicity.  At least I hope they don't

When Murdoch missed Julia's train in Murdoch mysteries, it stalled the relationship for a few seasons because she married Darcy but Murdoch and Julia did get married in the show's 100th episode (and are still happily together 3 seasons later).

However, I'm not betting against Oliver's relationship with Susan blowing up around 5x13 and him starting another with Tina six episodes later because Felicity is too busy with plot doing something else.

1 hour ago, calliope1975 said:

Yes, it will be done as well as Mayo's romantic plot, but could the reporter fulfill the romantic subplot in 5b? I suppose we could explore WD's love life since he's the show's golden child at the moment, or would the romance have to be connected to Oliver?

I'm also beginning to think that they're going to ignore Olicity until S6, which WM floated in interviews, or they'll be thrown together at the last moment in the last episode a la S3. Then, they don't have to write for it but get to pat themselves on the back and say, see? This was the plan all along. 

Would they be stupid enough to think that WD's love life would interest the audience?  Now that Evelyn is presumablygone, he and Curtis are the biggest fails amongst the n00bs but Curtis can be rehabilitated by putting him back to what he was last season.

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

I mean in season 3 they had Felicity having an implied romantic attraction to Ray while mourning presumed dead Oliver (remember the creepy cheek first aid heart eyes scene) then building on that to sex in 3x15, dating till 3x20 and then breaking up and they still had Oliver and Felicity get together in the end 

I think that scene was about the attraction being on Ray's part.  Felicity didn't get together with him till Oliver shut the door on a relationship with her for the third time (5x01 when he said nope, 3x12 when he came back and joined up with MM, and when he shut her out of discussions with  Diggle about going to Nanda Parbat).

Quote

They ended the premiere episode with Diggle asking Oliver if he and Felicity will get back together with Oliver answering his not sure thereby starting the season as posing Olicity reuniting as a question mark. It makes sense with the full circle writing style of the Arrow writers that they'll answer that question by the end of the season.

That's the most encouraging thing I've read because the EPs like to flip the first episode and the last.  But again. I'm preparing myself for them ending Olicity permanently because this is the Season of Stupid Decisions.

35 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Maybe (although I guess they might ignore the fact that Talia is supposed to be in her 50s from LoT and focus more on the idea that she looks like Lexa Doig), although I have no idea how many episodes she's in, and idk if that's going to last incrementally enough for the rest of 5b or be relevant to anything if it's a flashback romance.

Hey don't forget SA's role in Private Practice opposite Amy Brennan who was edging up on 50 at the time.  Susanna Thompson is 58 and looks pretty good to me.

Also I have no doubt Talia has been bathing in Daddy's Lazarus hot tub.

[Carrie Ann]

30 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Dropping romance completely with Oliver (or leaving it in the flashbacks) would just be abruptly dropping a pattern they've used for like the last 3 years.

1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

I just wouldn't make predictions based on the PR, is all I'm saying.

I hear you both. Ending with Oliver happy in his love life would have seemed like a given to me prior to this season, but I'm just not sure what they're doing anymore, so I can't bring myself to feel as sure about it as I did. I do think it's likely, or at least AS likely as the alternative; just not convinced one way or the other yet. 

I keep waiting for the "pivot," I guess--in-show or at least outside of it--which will tell me that something is coming and give me a feeling as to approximately when, and so far...nada. That in itself is not "evidence" that nothing is coming, as there are definitely reasons (through the lens of their very bad PR strategy) to point to for why they would want to continue not talking about O/F right now--they were trying to sell Felicity/Mayo so his death would have *some* resonance (didn't work); now they're trying to sell Oliver/Susan so this subplot about her betrayal and whatever else will have resonance; they value "surprises" and selling the current storylines over the long-term strategy of keeping people invested in your core relationships. I will say though that throughout S3, the EPs did continue to talk about O/F as they related to each other even as they talked up her relationship with Ray or whatever. At that point, they were telling an Olicity story, and *right now* they are not, except in the background if you squint. I expect they will get back to that story again--whether that starts around 516 or 520 or 523--and I expect to see a change in tune prior to that point. If I thought it was happening as soon as 512-514, I think they would start hinting at it again now. If it's starting around 516, then I think they'll start talking about it during the break after Feb sweeps (assuming there is one). I'm just adjusting back my timeframe expectations every time an opportunity presents itself to address O/F and cast/crew don't take it.

[way2interested]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

However, I'm not betting against Oliver's relationship with Susan blowing up around 5x13 and him starting another with Tina six episodes later because Felicity is too busy with plot doing something else.

I'm not betting it against it completely yet either, even though it's another illogical question mark from me since they're going to be breaking/writing 518-520 coming in the next few weeks and the logic would kind of be, "Ok, time to break 519. The episode where Oliver and Tina finally get together even though no one has seen her yet. If she doesn't work out we can always just take it out." Susan is one thing but this would be after the reactions to this Susan plot and without any audience reactions concerning Tina. But yeah, the idea that the Susan plot will be done, mixed with Felicity being doing something unrelated to the team, mixed with a possible lack of a romantic plot for Oliver doesn't do denying the theory any favors.

16 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Hey don't forget SA's role in Private Practice opposite Amy Brennan who was edging up on 50 at the time.  Susanna Thompson is 58 and looks pretty good to me.

Also I have no doubt Talia has been bathing in Daddy's Lazarus hot tub.

  I meant strictly the character would be in her 50s. Like, the idea of Oliver, a CW character, would be banging a guest character, Talia, who's supposed to be in her late 50s, is kind of odd to me, but given how Lexa Doig looks and the magic hot tub being in the canon, they might be able to get around it.

[Lily-n11]

I remember when there was some speculation about last season's flashbacks when we first learned about #Poopy. I expected her to be a person Oliver trusted and then get betrayed by. I thought this would move him closer to the person he was when he got back to Starling City in season 1. I wonder if something similar is going to happen this year. Because right now IMO FlashbackOliver is not even close to how I remember S1 Oliver.

If anyone is going to leave town at the end of the season I hope it's WildDong. But no need to wait so long. Someone buy him a bus ticket tomorrow.

[Primal Slayer]

I feel like plenty of CW characters have banged older women. Well at least Gossip Girl comes to mind. CW isn't against having their characters having "one offs" or "affairs" with older women.

[Velocity23]

If Arrow does its usual thing they gonna focus the last episodes on OTA. In s2 we had Sara & Oliver last from 2x13 till 2x19. And then Sara just disappeared before Moira died and joined the league. Ray/Felicity was from 3x15 till 3x20. Oliver and reporter started with 5x07 episode and i would say it will go around 5x13- 5x14. And then they will deal with the fallout that is surely happening. Episodes 5x16- 5x19 are usually filler episodes. I just honestly don't see that they would make Tina another LI for the lead. Especially since i dont think Felicity SL will go beyond February sweeps. 

 

Arrow writers have a pattern they love to go by every single time. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Velocity23

[Trisha]

2 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm also beginning to think that they're going to ignore Olicity until S6, which WM floated in interviews, or they'll be thrown together at the last moment in the last episode a la S3. Then, they don't have to write for it but get to pat themselves on the back and say, see? This was the plan all along. 

Mo Ryan had a great rant about showrunners who think like this on the latest Gen Pop podcast. She compared it to going to a restaurant and the service is terrible, your order gets mixed up and the food is cold. But  when the waiter drops off your bill he says "Don't worry; next week we'll be serving one of the best meals you'll ever have." Some shows think the sum of its parts matters more, but viewers usually don't.

I'm still expecting a big pivot around 520-523, but I'm curious to see if they can pull it off in a way that I'll buy - or that makes me understand what they were trying to accomplish in 5A. I'm even more curious to see how long they can keep up this terrible writing before even the most positive fans stop defending it. 

[insomniadreams88]

My problem with pushing an Olicity reunion back to S6 is it gives Oliver more episodes to be stupid and do more things that will make me not want him with Felicity. Also, I feel like they'll lose more fans over the summer that way. And if they make Tina a LI? Olicity fans will be mad over the summer. Laurel/comics fans will be mad if Tina is getting the GA/BC romance they wanted. 

I will say that I don't think they'll ever kill off Felicity. They'd sooner give EBR the deal across all shows and actually use her on a consistent basis if they didn't want her around for some stupid reason full time on Arrow. 

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I doubt any such thing will happen, but I think they'd just have her leave town. That way she's easily available for crossovers and Very Special Episodes.

[Velocity23]

Why would Felicity leave town. This topic comes up every few months. 

The way her storyline is progressing i just dont see it. 

And honestly why would EBR go for the crappy DCTV contract across shows. She would most likely lose all the perks she has now. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Velocity23

[statsgirl]

35 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

My problem with pushing an Olicity reunion back to S6 is it gives Oliver more episodes to be stupid and do more things that will make me not want him with Felicity. Also, I feel like they'll lose more fans over the summer that way. And if they make Tina a LI? Olicity fans will be mad over the summer. Laurel/comics fans will be mad if Tina is getting the GA/BC romance they wanted.

That's why I thought that they would put Oliver and Felicity back together in the dying moments of the season, as they did in s3, because they won't want the Olicity social media people being silent.

But having rewatched the first two episodes of this season, I not only don't want this Oliver with Felicity, I don't much like Felicity herself.  They left behind who she was before and modeled her on Lucy Ricardo., with the addition of lying and dithering about her relationships. Way to kill one of the best things you had going for you, Arrow.

ETA: 

Quote

Why would Felicity leave town.

Felicity would leave town to further stall Oliver and Felicity getting together. And also because someone leaves town almost every summer -- it was Oliver in s1, Oliver and Felicity at the end of s3 and Diggle in s4.  Feels like it's Felicity's turn now.

Edited December 31, 2016 by statsgirl

[Velocity23]

2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

My problem with pushing an Olicity reunion back to S6 is it gives Oliver more episodes to be stupid and do more things that will make me not want him with Felicity. Also, I feel like they'll lose more fans over the summer that way. And if they make Tina a LI? Olicity fans will be mad over the summer. Laurel/comics fans will be mad if Tina is getting the GA/BC romance they wanted.

They wont do that. CW likes to stall couples but not for longer than 1 season. Heck other networks do the same. Yes they might bring in a LI but not a string of them once they have a ship established. Nobody is pushing Tina as LI angle. 

[Cleanqueen]

Hahah unless Emily wants out of her contract, I can't see the show kicking her out. And Emily to me seems satisfied with what she has currently. And I don't recall Greg Berlanti ever going on vacation with anyone else but Emily-Colton too, but he clearly wanted to leave the show.

[tv echo]

You know, with unfavorable comparisons being made of Arrow to Daredevil (and I'm sure the EPs are aware of the Arrow reddit forum's dedicating itself to Daredevil last summer), I can't help but wonder if Arrow is intentionally copying Daredevil in some respects this season - with the focus back on Oliver's most important relationship being with Star City and back to street level fighting.  

Then there's the characters. Tobias Church was similar to Daredevil's Wilson Fisk.  Could the Vigilante be Arrow's version of the Punisher?  And could Tina be Arrow's version of Elektra?

Edited January 1, 2017 by tv echo

[AyChihuahua]

One more tick in the box for Felicity and Vigilante to work together if they're copying DD S2.

[apinknightmare]

I was thinking about this Susan situation - if she really doesn't expose Oliver's past because of her real feels, then I wonder why they decided to introduce her the way that they did? Not actually having her do anything with the info she has on Oliver lessens the "I-told-you-so" factor for the people who warned him off of her, and there isn't much of a lesson to be learned from it for him since he'll ultimately be right for trusting her. 

If they'd just introduced her as a rando reporter who was friendly with his administration and dated him while digging around in his past behind his back, the effect would be the same and he wouldn't look so stupid in the meantime. 

Edited January 1, 2017 by apinknightmare

[tangerine95]

Yeah I feel like if she doesn't expose him then what was the point, that storyline went nowhere. Maybe she does  but regrets it and that's where the really cares about him part comes in. I can't really see that info not getting exposed and having no consequences for Oliver after they made a big deal about it. 

Edited January 1, 2017 by tangerine95

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Yeah I feel like if she doesn't expose him then what was the point, that storyline went nowhere.

Maybe she gets him into some other kind of trouble, and just doesn't expose what she knows to the public? If that doesn't happen, then there really wasn't any point to having anyone in the show realize she's bad news. 

[insomniadreams88]

I just can't get past him dating the reporter who has been against him as mayor and those working for him. How does it look to the public that he brought her as his date to the holiday party? And will now be dating her? I guess it's fortunate no one else in the city wants to be mayor. 

Also, they still could've done the reporter digging into his past without him dating her. They could've even done it with O/F together. Or did they think she'd look too unprofessional (which she already does) if she tried to make a move on a man in a relationship? 

I want her to expose him because after we keep seeing Thea tell Oliver it's a bad idea, I want her to be right. She deserves at least that for getting stuck in this storyline. (I also still think that this could've been a better storyline if they had stuck to Thea vs Susan like it started out and not made her a LI. Thea could've been trying to handle Susan digging into her brother alone because she thought Oliver had too much going on with Prometheus. Could've given Thea something to do at least.)

[tangerine95]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe she gets him into some other kind of trouble, and just doesn't expose what she knows to the public? If that doesn't happen, then there really wasn't any point to having anyone in the show realize she's bad news. 

Maybe, like it causes the bratva to go after her or Oliver. But yeah it would be weird if she just gets into some trouble over it after how much they pushed the she's shady angle. I mean she backstabed Thea in her first episode and they had both Lance and mutiple times Thea warn him about her and basically every scene they have has some reminder that she's investigating him. 

[insomniadreams88]

You know how the point of Billy as Felicity's BF seemed to be so that Oliver would end up killing him? I wonder if the point of Susan as a LI is to have Oliver have to focus on whatever her actions lead to, driving a wedge between O/F (and further stalling a reunion or even scenes that could lead up to a reunion) because he's not focusing on Prometheus at the moment, leading to Felicity's arc and her turning to other people. He's already failed her as her fiancé and friend. Could they really have Oliver fail Felicity as her partner too? I wouldn't be surprised given the rest of S5 so far. 

Maybe the real reason they put Diggle back in prison (and even Lance in rehab, since he's spoken against Susan) right now is so he couldn't join Thea in pointing out Oliver is wrong to trust Susan. So, of course, nothing to do with Diggle's own storyline. And once Susan is exposed, there will be no reason to have Diggle out of the picture, so they'll find a reason to free him.