Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Sunshine]

2 hours ago, bijoux said:

What did he he say the scene didn't involve? I think it was two things, but I can't remember what they were. One of them may have been training?

Training/working out was the only thing not involved.

[insomniadreams88]

33 minutes ago, arjumand said:

When I think of Felicity going dark, I cheer up slightly, imagining this:

 

But then I get sad again, because it won't even be half as good.

Oh, I kind of wish Dark Willow would come pay Arrow a visit right now. Could you imagine? 

[tangerine95]

I don't think they expected the reporter or the bf storylines to appeal to anyone or for it to be popular with fans.Tho I don't think they expected it to cause a lot of the fandom to become apathetic to the show and make an  actual effot to give them no sm buzz and I don't think they anticipated that the season would have the ratings it does for whatever reason.  Imo for them those are just plot points they need to go through and they probably expected people to sit through it like they have through similar stuff for 4 seasons now. I do think its weird how they promote it because there's a way to word it that doesn't piss people off and still sticks to storylines that are happening rn but I don't think MG and especially WM know how to find that balance, they never have. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by tangerine95

[Sunshine]

So, Oliver & Susan get involved and he opens up to her about Russia.  They are all in.  Susan really cares about Oliver. Oliver cares about Susan. (Sounds like a repeat of what was said about Billy & Felicity).  It puts them in both emotional and physical danger.  (SA said Billy should be concerned about his connection to Felicity.) So does this mean Prometheus is going to arrange for Felicity to kill Susan?  She's going to be making morally questionable decisions. JK, mostly.  Can't say Oliver didn't warn Susan.  He told her that he ruins the lives of everyone he comes in contact with/cares about in 5.09.   

Edited December 30, 2016 by Sunshine

[insomniadreams88]

You know, I wonder if Oliver's ever going to tell Susan that Human Target was the one to take her number. I mean, in Oliver's mind right now, shouldn't he be thinking that the beginning of whatever they have started with Human Target/Susan? 

[calliope1975]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

in Oliver's mind right now, shouldn't he be thinking 

And there's the entire crux of the problem. :p

I do think TIIC are telling the story they think is awesome, and viewers who are unhappy will eventually be pleased with the bigger picture at the end of the season. One of the many problems with this line of thinking is TIIC say this every year, and when the year is over talk about how much they inexplicably didn't read the room right and all the regrets they have. I suspect this year will be no different. Lather, rinse, repeat for as long as this show runs unless there's a major regime change. 

[Mellowyellow]

S4 was a season of suck! There was no good bigger picture to be pleased with! I didn't even want Laurel dead!

What was the overall picture that was meant to be good?

That said I'm probably one of the few that loved season 3!

[tangerine95]

Yeah I think they really believe people will love it once we get to see the big picture and can't understand why people won't just wait instead of questioning all the dumb stuff they're doing. That's why they're always saying they wait and see line. But they don't seem to get that no matter where it leads to it doesn't erase the bad writing they used to achieve the big picture especially when there's so many better ways to do basically the same stuff only if they put a little more thought into it instead of doing the easiest, laziest thing. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by tangerine95

[apinknightmare]

Plus, waiting and seeing requires a leap of faith and trust, and after the past couple of seasons I totally understand why people would get restless. Like, I hung in after the shit hit the fan last season, and it never got better - only worse (and more idiotic). There really isn't any reason to believe that it won't be the same here. Not to mention we're entering the time of year where the show typically falls apart.

[way2interested]

You know, kind of off-topic, I kind of feel bad for Tina in all of this. I mean, it looks like she joins the team in 511 and then right then the next week the plot might involve the past mob entanglements and the current romantic issues (both which will likely collide) of the leader of the team she just recently joined. Plus, one of the members is going though marital troubles, one might be going down a darker path, a previous member recently betrayed the team, one is a guy with magic rags, and one of them is Wild Dog. Not to mention the whole deal with Prometheus going out of his way to damage everyone on Oliver's team. She might not know what she's signing up for and get a rude awakening which might not help her anti-vigilante stance.   

[LeighAn]

I feel like being pessimistic about Olicity is like Pokemon Go- all the rage fad thing.

I'm not thrilled or particularly excited for Oliver/Susan either but there's nothing Wendy said that is any different to what she said about Felicity/Billy and how he was a good guy that Felicity cares about and she hopes the audience roots for him. She's over sold that relationship since Felicity basically always kept Billy at arm lengths and seemed like she was never that into him (or at least when it came to bringing him into her life and talking about him with her friends).

Its pretty much a given that Wendy is over selling the hell out of Susan as well. I do think that Oliver is going to "try" and have a real relationship with Susan in the same way Felicity "tried" to have a relationship with Billy. But ultimately Susan will either betray Olivers trust and he'll learn some lesson from that that will help him personally and Olicity down the track and/or he will learn that while he cared for Susan she is placeholder, just like I got the impression Billy was a placeholder for Felicity. 

Imsure some of the writing choices will be eye roll and cringe inducing worthy but Oliver/Susan doesn't = Olicity are dead and never getting back together. Just like Felicity/Billy didn't = Olicity is dead given she was still having deep and meaningful scenes with Oliver making heart eyes at him getting awkward and over compensating when seeing Oliver with another girl etc.

This is just CW ship stall rubbish because they don't want Olicity together right now so the writers are throwing Oliver with Susan so Oliver can have his rebound and they can carry on their Susan investigates and could threaten to expose Olivers past storyline.

And praise Jesus if this means we can stop talking about Tina/Oliver!

Edited December 31, 2016 by LeighAn

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, way2interested said:

You know, kind of off-topic, I kind of feel bad for Tina in all of this. I mean, it looks like she joins the team in 511 and then right then the next week the plot might involve the past mob entanglements and the current romantic issues (both which will likely collide) of the leader of the team she just recently joined. Plus, one of the members is going though marital troubles, one might be going down a darker path, a previous member recently betrayed the team, one is a guy with magic rags, and one of them is Wild Dog. Not to mention the whole deal with Prometheus going out of his way to damage everyone on Oliver's team. She might not know what she's signing up for and get a rude awakening which might not help her anti-vigilante stance.   

Oh, me too. I don't know what exactly appeals to her about coming to Star City and joining this team or its police department. I mean, if she does any research before moving, wouldn't the annual May attacks be enough for her to reconsider. I'm sure she's doing some good in her city, enough good to attract the attention of the team in another city to warrant a road trip.

I actually hope they explore her anti-vigilante stance (and who she is as a detective) and it doesn't end up being something that's resolved in two lines of dialogue. I want to see how she goes from "I'm anti-vigilante" to  "I want to sign up to work with the vigilante whose past actions led to the villain who is currently terrorizing the city that's terrorized every single year by another evil guy"? 

[LeighAn]

52 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

It all boils down to the OTP not ending up together. There's always a reason, so I don't see why there can't also be a "reason" for THIS OTP not to end up together. It is entirely possible there's some BTS reason we simply don't know about.

Buffy and Angel were separated because they wanted to spin Angel off to his own show.

Damon and Elena were seperated because Nina wanted to leave when her contract was up and probably wasn't a fan of having to play lovey dovey with her married ex. Also I would not be surprised if the producers aren't working on or have arranged Nina to come back for the finale so Delena can have their happily ever after ending.

Im not to sure about Ichabod and Abbie cause I don't watch but they killed Abbie off.

As far as we know Felicity is not getting her own show, Stephen and Emily aren't preparing to leave the show and Felicity or Oliver aren't getting killed off. 

For all the examples of OTPs not ending up together a theirs twice as many who do after much television drama rubbish and pointless third party LIs that go no where and serve no purpose except to bore and aggravate the audience.

[statsgirl]

There's no reason not to have Oliver and Felicity end up together.  They have one of the strongest fanbases on current TV, there's no reason toput either of them on another show because DC TV is already overcrowded, and SA will be gone as soon as he has a decent shot at a successful movie.

The biggest threat is that they will make Oliver so revolting fans will have left the show before then.

56 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

So, Oliver & Susan get involved and he opens up to her about Russia.  They are all in.  Susan really cares about Oliver. Oliver cares about Susan. (Sounds like a repeat of what was said about Billy & Felicity).  It puts them in both emotional and physical danger.  (SA said Billy should be concerned about his connection to Felicity.) So does this mean Prometheus is going to arrange for Felicity to kill Susan?  She's going to be making morally questionable decisions. JK, mostly.  Can't say Oliver didn't warn Susan.  He told her that he ruins the lives of everyone he comes in contact with/cares about in 5.09.   

If Felicity goes dark and kills Susan, it might just save this storyline for me.

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If Felicity goes dark and kills Susan, it might just save this storyline for me.

If that happens, the entire team better surround Felicity and comfort her. Thea or Diggle (but not both) can give Oliver a half-hug off to the side.

[LeighAn]

The context of Wendy saying the "all in" quote to me implies sex more then any romantic concept since she goes from saying they kiss and will go all in. 

I also spec that Susan asking hard questions which take them down "physically and emotionally hard paths" is Susan's digging into Bratva brings the Bratva/Anatoli to Star City exposing Susan's betrayal (or what I call doing her job since a reporter really should look into shady connections of their political leaders- by all means reporters expose Trump!- just not sleep with them to do so) and cause physical danger/harm to Susuan and/or Oliver and his loved ones because the Bratva go after them.

[Mellowyellow]

Isn't sweeps where they want high ratings?

Won't Oliver boinking the reporter turn the shippers away from the ep? I know they don't care about the shippers but surely they don't want a low rating sweeps ep? Anyone  know how many shippers there are ?

Which were the sweeps eps in previous seasons?

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Won't Oliver boinking the reporter turn the shippers away from the ep? I know they don't care about the shippers but surely they don't want a low rating sweeps ep?

The point of not caring about shippers (or comic fanboys, or any subset of fans) is that they don't think there are enough of them to cause a rating dip if they get turned off of the show. 

11 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

The context of Wendy saying the "all in" quote to me implies sex more then any romantic concept since she goes from saying they kiss and will go all in.

I think by "all in" she means they're going to stop randomly dating and try a full-on relationship. 

[lemotomato]

18 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Isn't sweeps where they want high ratings?

Won't Oliver boinking the reporter turn the shippers away from the ep? I know they don't care about the shippers but surely they don't want a low rating sweeps ep? Anyone  know how many shippers there are ?

Which were the sweeps eps in previous seasons?

February sweeps has never really been good for the main ship of the show at the time. In season 2, Oliver and Sara hooked up, and Oliver and Laurel had a massive fight where he said he was done with her. In season 3, Ray and Felicity hooked up. In season 4, Oliver and Felicity broke up. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by lemotomato

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

The context of Wendy saying the "all in" quote to me implies sex more then any romantic concept since she goes from saying they kiss and will go all in. 

I also spec that Susan asking hard questions which take them down "physically and emotionally hard paths" is Susan's digging into Bratva brings the Bratva/Anatoli to Star City exposing Susan's betrayal (or what I call doing her job since a reporter really should look into shady connections of their political leaders- by all means reporters expose Trump!- just not sleep with them to do so) and cause physical danger/harm to Susuan and/or Oliver and his loved ones because the Bratva go after them.

Yeah, and I think that's all going to start (possibly with a scene showing/implying a quickie like Felicity and her bf) and come to a head in 512, possibly ending their relationship. 

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Which were the sweeps eps in previous seasons?

The last 3 seasons have had Feb sweeps be pretty bad for Olicity (213: Sara and Oliver hook-up, 315: Felicity and Ray hook-up, 415: Oliver and Felicity break-up). The thing this time around for me though is that I can't picture anything as flashy as those things happening unless Tina and Oliver end up hooking up within 3 episodes of them knowing each other. Susan and Oliver doing anything in Feb sweeps would count I guess but with WM being so blatant about it makes me think it's not going to be a grandiose sweeps moment like the last three years. 

For sweeps in general this time around, we've got the new probable BC, the Bratva plot/Oliver's LI plot coming back around, and what looks like a Vigilante-focused/reveal episode, and with a title like "The Sin-Eater" for 514 (coming on the last day of sweeps), I'm guessing something dramatic to happen, but what I'm not sure exactly at this point.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, way2interested said:

For sweeps in general this time around, we've got the new probable BC, the Bratva plot/Oliver's LI plot coming back around, and what looks like a Vigilante-focused/reveal episode, and with a title like "The Sin-Eater" for 514 (coming on the last day of sweeps), I'm guessing something dramatic to happen, but what I'm not sure exactly at this point.

I'm going to assume they're also going to get Diggle out of prison during sweeps. (And I really want Felicity to be the one to do something to make that happen.) 

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

So, Oliver & Susan get involved and he opens up to her about Russia.  They are all in.  Susan really cares about Oliver. Oliver cares about Susan. (Sounds like a repeat of what was said about Billy & Felicity).  It puts them in both emotional and physical danger.  (SA said Billy should be concerned about his connection to Felicity.) So does this mean Prometheus is going to arrange for Felicity to kill Susan?  She's going to be making morally questionable decisions. JK, mostly.  Can't say Oliver didn't warn Susan.  He told her that he ruins the lives of everyone he comes in contact with/cares about in 5.09.   

OMG I love it. Okay, then whose apartment does she run to whose resident is draped in lingerie? And for whom does she throw a rando get-together before Susan's room temp?

[Mellowyellow]

Wow thanks guys! with the exception of Ray (haha this only applies to me) Feb sweeps is rough!!!!!

[AyChihuahua]

1 hour ago, calliope1975 said:

And there's the entire crux of the problem. :p

I do think TIIC are telling the story they think is awesome, and viewers who are unhappy will eventually be pleased with the bigger picture at the end of the season. One of the many problems with this line of thinking is TIIC say this every year, and when the year is over talk about how much they inexplicably didn't read the room right and all the regrets they have. I suspect this year will be no different. Lather, rinse, repeat for as long as this show runs unless there's a major regime change. 

As others have pointed out (hi @dtissagirl) , this is such a fully crazy insane way to look at a season of tv that is released incrementally. Netflix series that are released all at once, sure. JJ is basically one long movie. But network shows have to retain and entertain audience every single individual episode. They are just absolutely painfully stupid to think of it this way.

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I'm going to assume they're also going to get Diggle out of prison during sweeps. (And I really want Felicity to be the one to do something to make that happen.) 

Honestly, that is throwing me off so bad because I have no idea when that would happen. DR was in the cast mannequin challenge video at the Russian bar set for 512 with the team (plus Tina), so I guess they get him out pretty quick from 510 to 512? Maybe he was just there hanging out and Diggle still is in jail, but maybe that's the subplot for 511 and Felicity does help him out?

Just now, AyChihuahua said:

OMG I love it. Okay, then whose apartment does she run to whose resident is draped in lingerie? And for whom does she throw a rando get-together before Susan's room temp?

Vigilante's, duh, that's how they team-up. ;)

[AyChihuahua]

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

You know, kind of off-topic, I kind of feel bad for Tina in all of this. 

I currently have zero problems with the actress and wish her well (I do not care for the reporter actress who, IMO, jabbed at shippers unnecessarily).

1 hour ago, LeighAn said:

Buffy and Angel were separated because they wanted to spin Angel off to his own show.

Damon and Elena were seperated because Nina wanted to leave when her contract was up and probably wasn't a fan of having to play lovey dovey with her married ex. Also I would not be surprised if the producers aren't working on or have arranged Nina to come back for the finale so Delena can have their happily ever after ending.

Im not to sure about Ichabod and Abbie cause I don't watch but they killed Abbie off.

As far as we know Felicity is not getting her own show, Stephen and Emily aren't preparing to leave the show and Felicity or Oliver aren't getting killed off. 

For all the examples of OTPs not ending up together a theirs twice as many who do after much television drama rubbish and pointless third party LIs that go no where and serve no purpose except to bore and aggravate the audience.

Again, there is literally ALWAYS a reason. There is no reason they can't ALSO have a reason in this case. We don't KNOW that they're getting along. We don't KNOW that neither is being killed off (which is the effect, not the cause). We don't KNOW that there isn't some BTS stuff happening. This idea that all these other series had "reasons" for not reuniting their OTP but obviously this show could not possibly also have "reasons" does not make sense.

Edited December 31, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Honestly, that is throwing me off so bad because I have no idea when that would happen. DR was in the cast mannequin challenge video at the Russian bar set for 512 with the team (plus Tina), so I guess they get him out pretty quick from 510 to 512? Maybe he was just there hanging out and Diggle still is in jail, but maybe that's the subplot for 511 and Felicity does help him out?

So Oliver's just going to leave town and leave Felicity to free Diggle? I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe he'll come back and they'll be like, "Surprise! Look what Felicity did and probably could have done months ago if you didn't exclude her in the first place." 

The photo EK posted of OTA from the lair - was DR wearing his Spartan outfit? I think he was. 

[statsgirl]

I think it's totally idiotic to put Oliver sleeping with Tina after sleeping with Susan but given this season, I'm not betting against it.

30 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think by "all in" she means they're going to stop randomly dating and try a full-on relationship. 

This moves Oliver from self-absorbed to straight out disgusting.  He killed Felicity's boyfriend so he's going to get into a relationship himself to feel better.  While she mourns.

41 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I also spec that Susan asking hard questions which take them down "physically and emotionally hard paths" is Susan's digging into Bratva brings the Bratva/Anatoli to Star City exposing Susan's betrayal (or what I call doing her job since a reporter really should look into shady connections of their political leaders- by all means reporters expose Trump!- just not sleep with them to do so)

Given Trump's statements, I can guess where he would say about that.

[AyChihuahua]

Reminder: Susanna, Katie, and Colin all had contracts.

All were killed off.

A contract is not a guarantee. Ask the mortgage crisis.

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

So Oliver's just going to leave town and leave Felicity to free Diggle? I wouldn't be surprised. Maybe he'll come back and they'll be like, "Surprise! Look what Felicity did and probably could have done months ago if you didn't exclude her in the first place." 

The photo EK posted of OTA from the lair - was DR wearing his Spartan outfit? I think he was. 

I think it would be more of a "Oliver's busy going to get Tina and Felicity takes it upon herself to free Diggle because...Wednesday" rather than leaving her to do it, but idk if this is even going to be part of 511.

Nah, DR was in regular clothes:

[statsgirl]

Wasn't DR also in the picture at the diner?  Or am I misremembering?

If he's on the men-only road trip, then they spring him in 510.

[lemotomato]

20 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Reminder: Susanna, Katie, and Colin all had contracts.

All were killed off.

A contract is not a guarantee. Ask the mortgage crisis.

Moira, Tommy, and Laurel were not the second most popular character on the show at the time they were written off. They were not second in screentime. They did not generate a considerable amount of buzz for the show, nor were they half of a ship the show spent 4 seasons establishing. 

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Wasn't DR also in the picture at the diner?  Or am I misremembering?

I just looked at C-graphs' blog about it, and he didn't mention David Ramsey being there. 

[statsgirl]

Thanks.

I'd like to think that Felicity has a hand in helping Diggle get out, but then I remember how excited I was to learn that Felicity would be leading the n00bs fighting to get Oliver & co away from the aliens, and how Invasion turned out in the end, and I lose hope.

[AyChihuahua]

57 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I just looked at C-graphs' blog about it, and he didn't mention David Ramsey being there. 

@HighHopes, was DR there?

[Chaser]

It was just EK, RG and SA. That was consistent in all the reports.

[AyChihuahua]

9 minutes ago, Chaser said:

It was just EK, RG and SA. That was consistent in all the reports.

And a brunette unknown, I believe. 

[Carrie Ann]

Well, that sure doesn't sound like DR! I do hope Dig's out by end of 510 or 11, and maybe he stays back from the roadtrip to actually spend time with his family or something. But honestly I can't bring myself to follow or care about his pointless storyline, which only existed to get him out of the lair for awhile so that the noobs were necessary.

[insomniadreams88]

What bugs me the most about Diggle's storyline is there are still bad guys out there - the ones who framed him - and he knows that. And the others should know that. And who knows what they could do next? But that doesn't seem to matter. Proving his innocence also means proving the right people are guilty. But that has never been brought up. 

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

What bugs me the most about Diggle's storyline is there are still bad guys out there - the ones who framed him - and he knows that. And the others should know that. And who knows what they could do next? But that doesn't seem to matter. Proving his innocence also means proving the right people are guilty. But that has never been brought up. 

And didn't they wind up stealing nukes or something like that? I feel like they framed him for murder and then also did something else terrible. Something that Digg knew about. Which makes his decision to just "take" his punishment and stay in prison doubly wrong and stupid. 

[insomniadreams88]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

And didn't they wind up stealing nukes or something like that? I feel like they framed him for murder and then also did something else terrible. Something that Digg knew about. Which makes his decision to just "take" his punishment and stay in prison doubly wrong and stupid. 

Yep. I doubt they decided, "hey, we framed this guy, but now that he's locked up, we're going to be good people!" Or maybe they did because they want to just drop that storyline except for when they need Diggle behind bars for a couple episodes. But I'm sure they probably also heard about Diggle breaking out so they could've used that opportunity to do something else and pin it on him since he escaped. There's actually potential there for an actual story. I'm not saying I'd be entirely interested in it, but they need to stop half-assing storylines. 

[Cleanqueen]

Diggle is certainly out by 5x11, they get to Russia in 5x12 based on that picture SA posted of all of them dressed up. Echo and Joe wearing russian scarves. Also that Mannequin Challenge video looks like Russia. Question is, why does Tina go to Russia with them the week after her introduction. Maybe she has connections to Russia?

And oh Wendy, stop selling the heck out of a useless relationship nobody cares about. Susan is bad news and we all know it, David basically confirmed it. I am thinking she does something in 5x13 that exposes Oliver and the fallout is dealt with it. I can't see her staying beyond 5x13/5x14.

[Sunshine]

They stole a nuke or something.  I'm not really expecting it to be addressed.  I think "fighting the charges" is just a way to tie Adrian Chase to other characters so that the Vigilante reveal has more impact.   Diggle is in jail mainly so Oliver, Rene & Curtis can work as a team on the road trip.  I don't think Diggle has much going on in 5B.  I saw a tweet where DR told someone at HVFF Atlanta that Diggle is bonding with Tina.  It has since been deleted but I am guessing he's just having team scenes.     

Lance appears to be in rehab so they don't have to write for him in the Laurel/BS appearance.  He probably gets out in 5.11 which would also give Thea scenes.  He has scenes with Rene in 5.12.  In the BTS pics Rene was in a suit and tie.  I wonder if Rene has an arc coming up.  He's had a lot of focus but not a real arc outside Team Arrow 2.0. 

I wonder if Felicity's cohort(s) starts out with just the guy from 3.05 (as someone we have met before) or if we're going to get more people from her past.  Does it begin in 5.10, 5.11 or 5.12?  I remember BFS saying it was still paying dividends in 5.12.

I'm not sure how they go to Russia in 5.12 -not saying they don't- just because the Oliver/Susan stuff takes place in that episode If Carly Pope's IMDB page is to be believed. It has been accurate with her appearances in the past. That is the only episode listed for her in 2017 so far.  I guess she could take an investigative trip to Russia (explains her absence in 5.10-5.11) which gets her in trouble with Bratva.  Most of the team goes to rescue her? Might make more sense for there to be a Bratva stronghold in/around Star City and Anatoly comes to town which exposes whatever Susan is up to. Even then I'm not sure why Oliver would take 5 people with him.

According to one of the paps Carly Pope filmed only one day.  Not sure what that says about her screen time but she hasn't had many more scenes than one scene Malone to date.  He had at least 4 short scenes in 5.09 though.  5.12 seems like another packed episode.             

Edited December 31, 2016 by Sunshine

[HighHopes]

2 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

@HighHopes, was DR there?

Haven't read anything else but I saw this. I thought I saw him--there was someone who looked like him and it didn't look like Echo. It was dark in the diner tho and I was across the street so I'm not positive.

Edited December 31, 2016 by HighHopes

[LeighAn]

7 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Moira, Tommy, and Laurel were not the second most popular character on the show at the time they were written off. They were not second in screentime. They did not generate a considerable amount of buzz for the show, nor were they half of a ship the show spent 4 seasons establishing. 

THIS!

Also they didn't get nominated as one of the most popular characters of all time by the Hollywood Reporter.

Again pessmissim and raining down on others enjoyment seems to be the hip new thing. 

I get being sceptical, frustrated, snarky and even bitter, but I don't get being grossly negative and consistently jumping to worse case scenarios about things that have no basis of proof.

Edited December 31, 2016 by LeighAn

[Chaser]

If Felicity is staying behind to help Dig, that could mean she would be interacting with Chase. Vigilante could also make another appearance prompting Felicity to put it together.

I realize that the only storyline I really care about right now is Felicitys. Dig's bores me, I can't figure out the point of Thea/Lance, and Oliver is being too stupid. 

I mildly care about Prometheus and if they don't isolate Tina to Oliver/Boobs I could care about her.

[Trisha]

15 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

The more I think about it, the more their promotionof the show baffles me!

Who is all the Reporter All In crap supposed to appeal to? I doubt the comic book fanboys would care because they want LL back or a new BC etc, Olicity shippers are probably raging so who do that think will read this and be all "OMG I've got to tune in, this is going to be so awesome."

It's totally baffling. It's one thing to understand the show had 8-10 episodes already in the can before they could get a clear picture of how bad this season's ratings/fan reaction would be and could pivot their writing and plans. But this interview clearly happened after the last episode aired! They know how much everyone hates this plot and yet WM continues to lean in. I get that the interview wasn't specifically about Susan (Matt probably had a 15-minute phoner with her and ran down the list of characters, asking for teases about what's coming up for each which he could then break up into little stories sprinkled throughout the break - I interned at a newspaper in the arts beat one summmer and the digital team did this regularly to squeeze out as much clicks as they could.) But WM should know by now how this works - that any substantially meaty character-specific sound bite would get spun off into its own separate story and seem like a bigger deal.

I actually liked SA'a approach about how Susan might not turn out like Isobel because feelings become involved (I just think his quote came out way too soon).  But WM talking it up like this is Oliver's next big "genuine" love story makes zero sense from a promotional point of view - and is clearly a lie, since it appears CP is no longer filming. What is the point? She's just going to lose more trust from the hardcore fans who follow the show closely, while the general fans are going to take her word for it and tune out. There's over 100 comments on that article now and no one is rooting for Susan. And it's not just Olicity fans commenting; it's general Arrow fans who can't believe how dumb their hero has become. I don't get how WM thought this could possibly help. 

[insomniadreams88]

What bugs me is how much time they're spending on these random LIs for Oliver and Felicity, especially since I think that if a reunion is coming, they're going to end up rushing through it or have it happen before a break (probably between seasons). They want to write away from the Olicity romance but I don't see the point of focusing on these other relationships like they are. 

And I will be annoyed if an episode coming up has the team having to save Susan because she got in over her head with the Bratva. With everything else going on, they'd have to take time out to deal with that. I'd be cheering for the Bratva in that case. It's not a good sign if I'm rooting against the main character of a show, but in this case, I am, because Oliver has been warned by Thea. Multiple times. 

I also wonder about this "genuine" relationship when most of it has to take place off-screen since CP only filmed 512. Is Oliver going to keep taking time off to go meet her? Tell the others he's going to meet Susan while they're working? (And of course they'll probably skip Felicity's reaction again.) Tell her he has mayoral business when he has to suit up as GA? He's putting all their secret identities in jeopardy with what will probably be bad lies - to a reporter - given his past with lying. 

[Velocity23]

I think Felicity is gonna have bigger issues than the reporter. 

[Featherhat]

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Who is all the Reporter All In crap supposed to appeal to? I doubt the comic book fanboys would care because they want LL back or a new BC etc, Olicity shippers are probably raging so who do that think will read this and be all "OMG I've got to tune in, this is going to be so awesome."

Well a lot of the "comic book fans" don't really seem to care that much because at least she isn't Felicity and they know she won't last. But many of them are going apeshit over the possibility of Canary 3.0 who isn't DLL (or now a reformed BS) and to add insult to injury is apparently a meta AND also another potential longterm "non canon" love interest for Oliver. Shit will hit the fan if speculation on her turns out to be right but I don't think its the kind of shit a passionate, engaged fanbase throw either.

But I really don't get the Susan storyline. As everyone has said it makes Oliver look dumb and thinking with Little Oliver (again) and why talk up a romance you know will be done with in 3 episodes anyway? I guess they're hoping for Olicity/Lauriver Outrage I Say! to drive up clicks on websites and social media where they have fallen a lot recently. And ratings needless to say, but it's making people apathetic rather than interested in turning in so they can rail against that stupid hussy! It has more chance of encouraging people not to watch than anything else.