Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

So, if the Palmer Tech set is gone, then...I guess those weren't Palmer Tech shirts Echo and the newbies were wearing in that BTS pic Echo posted a week or so ago? Or maybe Palmer Tech still exists, we just aren't going to see it? Otherwise, how would Felicity be working to get the implant available to the public? Unless that's EBR's head canon but isn't being addressed on the show at all (yet). Too many questions!

Pretty sure she only meant the set was gone. They actually say in that joint interview that the whole PT situation isn't really addressed in 501/502. The set was re-purposed (for now)  so there aren't any PT scenes but, PT still exists within the story. There's even some confusion because Echo thinks Curtis could still be working at PT or maybe he quit in solidarity.  

Nothing says PT is gone from the Universe, it's just not currently part of the sstor.  My guess it will happen in the back half of the season.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Angel12d]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

So, if the Palmer Tech set is gone, then...I guess those weren't Palmer Tech shirts Echo and the newbies were wearing in that BTS pic Echo posted a week or so ago? Or maybe Palmer Tech still exists, we just aren't going to see it? Otherwise, how would Felicity be working to get the implant available to the public? Unless that's EBR's head canon but isn't being addressed on the show at all (yet). Too many questions!

IDK. It could be that PT still exists but they don't need the set for a while so it's gone for the time being (is that how it works, IDK? @quarks, where art thou?). Or it could be that they're not gonna tie up the lose ends of Felicity still owning the company, which wouldn't surprise me in the slightest tbh. Still not impressed. I mean, what's Felicity gonna do once Oliver finally has the time to be a better mayor? 

And that's another thing...Oliver wanted to be mayor so bad and now he is, he's actually bad at it? Whaaaat?

Edited July 24, 2016 by Angel12d

[tv echo]

Spoilers from Comicbook.com interviews with SA and DR at SDCC (Jul. 23, 2016)
(videos posted by tv echo on page 40 of Spoilers thread)

-- On getting "back to basics" this season and whether he's happy with what he's seen so far, SA: "Thus far, very much so. I wouldn't say there haven't been any like - we really haven't had any cliffhangers. This season feels very grounded and very patient to me. Very patient. I think that it's a patience that's earned over the course of a couple of years, where you know that like, if you produce a quality episode, someone doesn't have to appear like from the grave at the end of every episode. It feels very much like we are taking our time and really setting things up for everything to just go f*cking crazy in the second half of the year." 

-- Interviewer commented that Oliver & Felicity went from partners to friends to lovers and asked what is keeping them working together now.  SA: "Listen, the most important - Oliver's most important relationship in the entire show is his relationship with Star City, and his objective to make it better than what it was and to fulfill what his father asked him to do. So Oliver and Felicity are very much team members at this point. Um, she thinks there should be a new team at the moment. Oliver would like the old team back together. He's kinda convinced that, well, everyone will go and do their thing and then they'll come back. So, uh, they're kind of at odds at that at the moment, but they're very much team members right now." 

-- SA: "Oliver's doing a sh*t job as Mayor right now. He's not doing a good job. You know, he ran for the mayoral office and got elected, theoretically, unopposed, based off of a lot of very very good, heartfelt sentiments. But because he is alone and there is no team, he doesn't have time to be the Mayor. So Thea's basically doing all of his stuff for him." 

-- SA said that Cody Rhodes is in 503 and that he thinks Cody "will excel" and that 503 "has a real chance to be an excellent episode."  

-- Diggle's getting a new helmet.

-- Flashpoint will affect Arrow.

-- Diggle returns with a beard.

-- Diggle also returns with a new appreciation for the team, when he rejoins them.

[way2interested]

I'm just still here wondering how in the world Flashpoint affects Arrow since they kept talking about it but not saying how. At this point, from the vagueness my crack theory is becoming that Felicity and Barry are the ones in a relationship (from SA's comment from a while ago about Felicity having a bf and GG's cut off as to why she's coming over) and that Diggle doesn't have a daughter anymore (from the lack of comments about Diggle leaving his actual family). It probably isn't right, but I'm done waiting for depressing twists to happen in the premieres for Arrow that carry over for the entire season for the third year in a row and I want to know it now instead of Oct. 5th. 

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

And that's another thing...Oliver wanted to be mayor so bad and now he is, he's actually bad at it? Whaaaat?

At least he's bad at it because (according to spoilers) he's dedicating too much time to Green Arrowing, and not because we have a Ben Wyatt/Ice Town sitch on our hands (and with Oliver that could easily be possible). 

 

[thegirlsleuth]

I haven't been a comic reader in over 10 years, but can anyone clarify Flashpoint for me?  I read the Wikipedia page, and I couldn't tell whether it alters the earth 1 timeline, or whether is sends everyone into an earth 2 timeline.  Or are the two options one and the same? I'm just wondering if any of the changes stick.

I feel like if Arrow is in a Flashpoint reality for at least one episode that they are in a bonus Flash episode and not an episode of Arrow.  That was why I had the question above, trying to get a sense of whether the real season was going to start in episode two, once they'd cleared out the Flashpoint changes. If the actions of episode one are going to be wiped clean, might explain why they are so vague about some stuff.

Edited July 24, 2016 by thegirlsleuth

[Angel12d]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

At least he's bad at it because (according to spoilers) he's dedicating too much time to Green Arrowing, and not because we have a Ben Wyatt/Ice Town sitch on our hands (and with Oliver that could easily be possible). 

That's true. Although we have yet to find out who gave the go-ahead to building that gold statue of BC. That must have cost a pretty penny...while the city is falling apart.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I feel like if Arrow is in a Flashpoint reality for at least one episode that they are in a bonus Flash episode and not an episode of Arrow.  That was why I had the question above, trying to get a sense of whether the real season was going to start in episode two, once they'd cleared out the Flashpoint changes. If the actions of episode one are going to be wiped clean, might explain why they are so vague about some stuff.

I think that Barry's going to undo Flashpoint in the first ep of The Flash - but there are going to be things that stick that he can't undo, and those are the things that are going to affect Arrow. 

[HighHopes]

But the thing is, Oliver wanted to save the city as Oliver Queen, and he chose to run for mayor to do that. So suddenly he can't be bothered to do that and instead focuses his time on being the Green Arrow and saving the city that way? He wanted to be the mayor, and now that he is he passes on all of the work to Thea/Felicity. If he can't be the mayor he shouldn't accept the position IMO. 

And how come being the Green Arrow takes all of Oliver's focus away from being mayor, but Felicity can take care of the responsibilities and be Overwatch while also finding a new Team Arrow? So now because of this, Felicity has to focus whatever spare time she has on doing Oliver's day job instead of focusing on her own day job/life. Like getting her company back/starting her own, or whatever it is she wants to do with the chip tech she has in her back. 

[Password]

EBR sort of touched on the chip in an interview I watched. I'm somewhat confused. Given that the Palmer Tech set is gone, and Palmer Tech hasn't really been mentioned, is Felicity still an employee at Palmer Tech? And if not, wouldn't it be illegal for her to work on Palmer Tech things? 

Perhaps I missed something. 

Yeah and count me in as somewhat annoyed that Oliver is ditching the work for GA things. But I guess that's what the argument is about, that he needs helps to allow more balance I his life. 

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, HighHopes said:

But the thing is, Oliver wanted to save the city as Oliver Queen, and he chose to run for mayor to do that. So suddenly he can't be bothered to do that and instead focuses his time on being the Green Arrow and saving the city that way? He wanted to be the mayor, and now that he is he passes on all of the work to Thea/Felicity. If he can't be the mayor he shouldn't accept the position IMO. 

And how come being the Green Arrow takes all of Oliver's focus away from being mayor, but Felicity can take care of the responsibilities and be Overwatch while also finding a new Team Arrow? So now because of this, Felicity has to focus whatever spare time she has on doing Oliver's day job instead of focusing on her own day job/life. Like getting her company back/starting her own, or whatever it is she wants to do with the chip tech she has in her back. 

When Oliver ran for mayor, he had a team of people helping him out on the crime fighting side, and when he accepted the interim position those people had just left - he probably didn't realize how difficult juggling the two would be. And for all we know - since we haven't seen any of the season yet - Thea and Felicity could've encouraged him to ditch mayoral responsibilities because they *could* handle it, not realizing that it would become something that he'd have to do so often and now they feel like they have to confront him because he's relying too much on that. After having the last however many mayors murdered and  then having an actual terrorist fill the position, it doesn't seem like a stretch that they'd want him to keep the job and would be willing to do whatever it took to make that happen.

Since the argument about recruiting newbies was spoiled, clearly this is an actual issue between them and not something that's going to be the status quo, so...seems like Felicity won't be putting her work life on hold to help him for long. 

[Morrigan2575]

25 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I'm just still here wondering how in the world Flashpoint affects Arrow since they kept talking about it but not saying how. At this point, from the vagueness my crack theory is becoming that Felicity and Barry are the ones in a relationship (from SA's comment from a while ago about Felicity having a bf and GG's cut off as to why she's coming over) and that Diggle doesn't have a daughter anymore (from the lack of comments about Diggle leaving his actual family). It probably isn't right, but I'm done waiting for depressing twists to happen in the premieres for Arrow that carry over for the entire season for the third year in a row and I want to know it now instead of Oct. 5th. 

Highly doubtful, there's two interviews out there with MG and WM which clearly indicate that the Olicity relationship from S4 hasn't been rewritten.  Oliver is very much interested in getting Felicity back and 405 is a big Olicity episode. 

They're also NOT going to put Barry in a relationship with a character on a different show when they just teased WestAllen in the S2 finale and from stuff I've read set up some sort of keet cute between Alternate WestAllen in 301.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

While watching the videos, I was getting annoyed at how many times SA was saying that Oliver's most important relationship is with Star City - and not with Felicity, Thea or Diggle.  (I notice that he didn't mention Oliver's son.)  Does that make him a hero?  To prioritize a city above the people in his life, who've helped him and saved him and risked their lives for him?  I guess it's supposed to fit his role of a self-sacrificing hero who puts his cause above all, but it irks me for some reason. It made me think of the following line from the 1649 Richard Lovelace poem titled "To Lucasta, Going to the Wars": 

I could not love thee, dear, so much, 
Loved I not honor more.

Honestly, it sounds too much like catering to - but I can't say more without getting into prohibited fan talk.  

Also, SA bringing up Oliver's promise to his father now - which we haven't heard since S2 (and which I thought had been dropped by Oliver) - just sounds like the show is copying Flash's emphasis on the hero's son-father relationship - which is apparently the only acceptable relationship for a superhero.

Edited July 24, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

40 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think that Barry's going to undo Flashpoint in the first ep of The Flash - but there are going to be things that stick that he can't undo, and those are the things that are going to affect Arrow. 

I think that's exactly what they're doing.

Quote

While watching the videos, I was getting annoyed at how many times SA was saying that Oliver's most important relationship is with Star City - and not with Felicity, Thea or Diggle.  (I notice that he didn't mention Oliver's son.)  Does that make him a hero?  To prioritize a city above the people in his life, who've helped him and saved him and risked their lives for him?

Also, SA bringing up Oliver's promise to his father now - which we haven't heard since S2 (and which I thought had been dropped by Oliver) - just sounds like the show is copying Flash's emphasis on the hero's son-father relationship - which is apparently the only acceptable relationship for a superhero.

Pretty sure that's because they are tying S5 Flashbacks to S5 present and they're bringing the show full circle.  In S1 the Mission was Oliver's Life...the Mission was to save Star City and right his father's wrongs.  There's really not anything more to it than that IMO.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[way2interested]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Highly doubtful, there's two interviews out there with MG and WM which clealry indicate that the Olicity relationship from S4 hasn't been rewritten.  Oliver is very much interested in getting Felicity back and 405 is a big Olicity episode. 

I didn't mean that Oliver and Felicity were never in a relationship or don't love each other, but just that the Felicity's bf comment and GG giving a possibly fake reason as to why Felicity was coming to CC could mean that Felicity and Barry were currently casually dating circa hiatus/501/301 from the Flashpoint changes. 

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, tv echo said:

While watching the videos, I was getting annoyed at how many times SA was saying that Oliver's most important relationship is with Star City - and not with Felicity, Thea or Diggle.  (I notice that he didn't mention Oliver's son.)  Does that make him a hero?  To prioritize a city above the people in his life, who've helped him and saved him and risked their lives for him?  I guess it's supposed to fit his role of a self-sacrificing hero who puts his cause above all, but it irks me for some reason. 

It irked me more because this is literally the same guy who has been arguing for years that the relationships that Oliver has with the other characters is what makes the story worth telling, which is what I completely agreed with. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by way2interested

[Velocity23]

Wow ...

[tangerine95]

I was annoyed with Stephen saying that too. I don't think the city has ever been written as the most important relationship for Oliver at all. Not in any season really. He left it like twice, was happier than ever in Ivy Town and Felicity had to convince him to stay and he did for her as he kept saying in season 4. He also put Thea before the city twice in season 3 and was willing to abandon it to go save her. Had to be dragged back by Felicity and Digg in season 2 as well. 

But I do think he's saying that because it's what will be Oliver's storyline. The whole mayor thing is connected to the city. In season 3 when his relationships were the main storyline Stephen was saying that's what's  most important for Oliver and what he was fighting for. 

[Carrie Ann]

I was a little surprised at the "garbage mayor" revelation, because it was such a Hero Moment when Oliver was sworn in at the end of S4. But now it actually makes more sense to me that he would be struggling, from a narrative standpoint, because: 

a) they need him to be on an arc in all areas of his life, and S5 is the culmination of his series-long self-actualization arc, so I'm not surprised that he starts out as a not-great mayor so that he can (theoretically? I hope?) become a good mayor by the end of the season (possibly with some major civic achievement situation thrown in alongside whatever city-saving thing he does as GA). 

And b) they need more impetus for adding the Junior Vigilante Squad, because we know Oliver would be extremely opposed to putting people in harm's way and I'm not sure that just having it be hard on him as GA would be enough for him to give in and accept it.

But also, as has been pointed out, this Team Arrow/Work/Life balance thing has always been an issue on this show. Oliver was not an engaged CEO. Dig...hasn't had a real job in years. Felicity has always done the best, but was also fired as CEO when she was absent/distracted too often. (Also because of wanting to make the chip technology affordable, of course.) And now it seems like she's still unemployed? So she has more time to devote to the team, but I agree she shouldn't have to give her time that way. So, yeah, hopefully the point of this (probably brief) period where Oliver is disengaged in his role as Mayor and Felicity is unemployed is that those conditions aren't ideal or sustainable, and they need solutions that will allow them to be more effective in all spheres.

[calliope1975]

45 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

That's true. Although we have yet to find out who gave the go-ahead to building that gold statue of BC. That must have cost a pretty penny...while the city is falling apart.

Regardless of the real answer, I'm going to blame the BC statue on Barry and Flashpoint because he is the worst. 

45 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

And how come being the Green Arrow takes all of Oliver's focus away from being mayor, but Felicity can take care of the responsibilities and be Overwatch while also finding a new Team Arrow? So now because of this, Felicity has to focus whatever spare time she has on doing Oliver's day job instead of focusing on her own day job/life. Like getting her company back/starting her own, or whatever it is she wants to do with the chip tech she has in her back. 

Why is Oliver garbage at everything he does? Felicity worked a full time job while also working into the wee hours of the night with the vigilante. She then worked by his side all night running ops with him and then covered for his ass as his EA during the day. She then worked a shitty box store job before becoming VP and eventually CEO of Palmer Tech while still helping Oliver most nights. Same with Digg. And now this stuff with Oliver failing as the mayor. Why won't they let Oliver be competent?

[dtissagirl]

The OBVIOUSLY PR LINE about how Oliver's most important relationship is with Star City ties in with him being a garbage Mayor. That's it. It's not supposed to diminish Oliver's relationships with actual human beings. It's them selling the season's overall arc that will most likely go -- Oliver was a terrible mayor in offscreenville, and 501/502 is Thea and Felicity finally reaching their limits + something mobster-y happens that is awful and finally makes Oliver realize he needs to train a new team, and thus we start seeing Oliver's S5 journey of saving Star City by learning how to be a good Mayor, and a superhero whisperer.

[looptab]

Yeah, it's clearly because of the season arc. I guess what may be irksome is that, while I do believe that Oliver cares about his city - or he wouldn't be doing what he's been doing for the past 4 years - the relationship with the city is not something they have really bothered to ever show - at least not since the Sebastian Blood arc. (Last season it all went up in smoke). And now, as always, they just expect people to buy what they are selling. I mean, I do. It's kinda the whole premise of the show. It's just that now they have decided to put emphasis on it again, because they need it to be this way.

Re: the Mayor stuff, I can see Oliver  being "this is just until Thea and Diggle come back to the Team! No big deal, as soon as they get back I'll be on it".

Edited July 24, 2016 by looptab
Thought the posts would merge!

[dtissagirl]

There are ways to do this right if they finally do some worldbuilding. If the end of the story is, "it takes a village".

You're right, Star City hasn't really existed much on this show since Blood, so from that pov I get if people go "huh" when the PR machine wants everyone to believes the most important thing in Oliver's life is to save the city. Which hasn't been in forever. But also, the only way I can keep watching Arrow without having brain aneurisms is to remember Oliver doesn't really carry learned lessons from previous seasons onto the next.

[apinknightmare]

Not snark at all, but I think it's so funny that in S3 and S4 there was criticism about Laurel seamlessly being able to juggle training/being a vigilante and DA with no issues whatsoever, and now when we have Oliver in a similar situation and actually, realistically struggling, there's complaining about why he isn't able to unrealistically juggle the two, haha. 

I can't say Diggle's ever had to successfully juggle a real job with his nighttime job, since he basically worked whatever hours Oliver did when he had a job (does Diggle have a job anymore?). And Felicity was unrealistically able to juggle working nights with working days for most of her time on the show (like last season in whatever ep it was she first went into Palmer Tech, and she'd clearly been on comms all night and was fresh and ready to go work a full day after sleeping...when?). I actually liked that we saw her struggle a bit and even though the Board chair was an ass, and she had a good reason for missing their meetings, in reality she would've been let go like she was on the show (I kinda wish it had just been because of her missing so many meetings and seemingly being neglectful, and not because of her plans for the chip). 

I suppose that's why Oliver being a garbage mayor doesn't bother me, because it's realistic that he wouldn't be able to juggle being mayor and Green Arrow off the bat, and I know fixing that is the story I'm going to be watching over the course of the year. 

Edited July 24, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

Did Oliver successfully run Verdant and be a Vigilante or was that more Tommy?

[Starfish35]

I think that was more Tommy, and then Thea.

[dtissagirl]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Did Oliver successfully run Verdant and be a Vigilante or was that more Tommy?

I think it was because he got help to be a Vigilante, and Tommy was helping him at the bar. The whole point of S1 was HE NEEDED HELP.

I just feel like this Oliver is a garbage Mayor thing is just the starting point of the season. If he thinks Thea and Dig are coming back, then he probably thinks as soon as they come back he'll be able to be a better Mayor. I don't think the story is he's a garbage Mayor, the story is how he's gonna stop being one.

[tv echo]

In the Arrow 2.5 tie-in comics, Felicity was fired from her job at Kord Industries after she missed two days of work (when she's kidnapped by Brother Blood) in addition to over a month of missed days and lost time (due to her secret Team Arrow activities).- which is why she was working at that tech store at the beginning of S3.

Edited July 24, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

27 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

There are ways to do this right if they finally do some worldbuilding. If the end of the story is, "it takes a village".

You're right, Star City hasn't really existed much on this show since Blood, so from that pov I get if people go "huh" when the PR machine wants everyone to believes the most important thing in Oliver's life is to save the city. Which hasn't been in forever. But also, the only way I can keep watching Arrow without having brain aneurisms is to remember Oliver doesn't really carry learned lessons from previous seasons onto the next.

True, there are. And it's not even that the city doesn't exist much, IMO, it's that Oliver's thoughts about it don't. His mayoral campaign turned out to be about finally getting Lance's approval. He'd just say "this city needs saving" once in a while, but then it focused more on the villain than on the outcomes of the villain's actions. And, tbc, personally I'm not bothered by this specific instance, because as I said, I do buy that he cares. It just prompted a rant about the show's MO of neglecting things until they need them again -*cough* OTA *cough*- because you are right, Oliver has severe memory issues. :)

Edited July 24, 2016 by looptab

[HighHopes]

It's not so much Oliver being a garbage mayor, but that he is making Felicity and Thea do the work. Why is Felicity able to juggle the nighttime work and mayor work but not Oliver? I would love it if Oliver could do both, it's the 5th season and my hope is that he would hav grown from the second season. 

Laurel's day time and night time work never bothered me, because Felicity did it too. I just questioned her line of work (lawyer) while breaking the law at night. 

[Morrigan2575]

9 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I think it was because he got help to be a Vigilante, and Tommy was helping him at the bar. The whole point of S1 was HE NEEDED HELP.

I just feel like this Oliver is a garbage Mayor thing is just the starting point of the season. If he thinks Thea and Dig are coming back, then he probably thinks as soon as they come back he'll be able to be a better Mayor. I don't think the story is he's a garbage Mayor, the story is how he's gonna stop being one.

Oh i agree with you i just couldn't really remember S1 and how much was Tommy vs Oliver. 

[tv echo]

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
TVForTheRestofUs interview with WH
(video posted by tv echo on page 40 of Spoilers page)

-- WH: "Starting off, as you all know, Oliver ended up winning the campaign to become Mayor, so one of her major duties right now is helping out her brother, instead of inside the lair, inside the mayoral office. Um, so she's kinda spearheading - not necessarily his campaign any more, but all of his policies and everything for him right now... Because basically instead of moonlighting as a vigilante as the Mayor, he's vigilante moonlighting as the Mayor. So Thea's kind of left there picking up all the pieces left behind when he's not able to, you know, be there [unintelligible words] his mayoral duties and job... I mean, as you guys saw at the end of the season, she kinda decided to hang up the suit a little bit and kinda take some time off to figure out what she is on her own. So this is very much helping her."

-- WH: "Thea is definitely taking a different role in her life and a different role in Star City altogether. Um, she wants to obviously always be helpful, always be taking care of others - she tends to put herself before other people [unintelligible word] for the wrong reasons plenty of times. But right now, she is spearheading this part of her life rather than the other."

-- WH said that she hopes that Thea will get to the point where she feels comfortable going back to Team Arrow and that her rejoining the team is always a possibility and something that will definitely happen at some point. 

[kismet]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

I'm just still here wondering how in the world Flashpoint affects Arrow since they kept talking about it but not saying how. At this point, from the vagueness my crack theory is becoming that Felicity and Barry are the ones in a relationship (from SA's comment from a while ago about Felicity having a bf and GG's cut off as to why she's coming over) and that Diggle doesn't have a daughter anymore (from the lack of comments about Diggle leaving his actual family). It probably isn't right, but I'm done waiting for depressing twists to happen in the premieres for Arrow that carry over for the entire season for the third year in a row and I want to know it now instead of Oct. 5th. 

I've been wondering that too since the whole FS on Flash reveal. It could also be easily undone when the Flashpoint is fixed and no new casts necessary to stall both ships.

Edited July 24, 2016 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

The fact that it's gonna be mobsters and crime fighting on a street level again makes me cautiously optimistic. It makes me think that the writers are aware that the audience needs to care about Star City.

I don't know. I like the initial set up of Oliver not being able to handle superhero + City Hall, because I love this trope of the day job that fucks up the night job [or vice-versa]. It's actually one of the reasons 201-209 will be my forever favorite run of this show.

[apinknightmare]

17 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

It's not so much Oliver being a garbage mayor, but that he is making Felicity and Thea do the work. Why is Felicity able to juggle the nighttime work and mayor work but not Oliver? I would love it if Oliver could do both, it's the 5th season and my hope is that he would hav grown from the second season. 

He's making them? I didn't know that!

I was under the impression that Oliver was taking off to either do recon or fight during the times when he should be doing mayoral work, which would make him absentee, and therefore unable to do a lot of mayor stuff by virtue of just not being there - not that he's physically exhausted or somehow mentally unable to do the work and Thea and Felicity are picking up the slack. Thea isn't vigilante-ing, so taking off to vigilante isn't an issue for her. And I don't know if Felicity has a day job at this point or what, so who knows? But she's helped out on comms and such during work before, so if she is working I assume multitasking isn't an issue now? 

Not sure any of this really matters since Oliver's absenteeism or lax leadership is something that they're nipping in the bud in the first or second ep. Then Thea and Felicity should be able to go on their merry ways and get on with living.

Edited July 24, 2016 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

Quote

Interviewer commented that Oliver & Felicity went from partners to friends to lovers and asked what is keeping them working together now.  SA: "Listen, the most important - Oliver's most important relationship in the entire show is his relationship with Star City, and his objective to make it better than what it was and to fulfill what his father asked him to do. So Oliver and Felicity are very much team members at this point. Um, she thinks there should be a new team at the moment. Oliver would like the old team back together. He's kinda convinced that, well, everyone will go and do their thing and then they'll come back. So, uh, they're kind of at odds at that at the moment, but they're very much team members right now." 

This answer made me laugh, because I think the interviewer was expecting another, maybe more thought out kind of answer, and Stephen just evaded the question and started parrotting the three lines he is allowed to say - .Star City .Team Members .They disagree. 

:D

Edited July 24, 2016 by looptab

[DeadZeus]

I don't really understand how Arrow is affected by FlashPoint? If Barry kinda saved Oliver from DD in S4 crossover. So if Barry wasn't there with Powers then OQ should be dead right? And i'm sure alot of things would be different to.. So i don't understand how Flashpoint will only bring pretty minor differences? :S Shouldn't they be HUGE?

[kismet]

We here always predicted the Palmer Tech set was going to be one of the causalities. It doesn't bother me that it is gone, because I think they can do the important part of those scenes without the set (showing FS as an intelligent CEO). Plus PT scenes are boring when they are not being attacked. I wonder if FS is just going to be simply collecting her money as owner of the PT, while she works on getting her influence & title back. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a little bit of a legal battle to stall her return to CEO and to allow her time to be mayor. I also wonder how much of the Chip is EBR's wish and how much is going to be in the actual arc.

As for OQ being a shit mayor, it does give a reason why FS has not been more involved in getting PT back. It gives TQ something to do. It sets up QL as becoming the possible Deputy Mayor to help out the situation. And it gives a valid reason to bring in the newbies. And it set-ups up a arc for OQ to find professional balance again. It's a predictable way to start off s5.

I am concerned that it does push the bigger agenda that OQ is incompetent at everything he does. It's the 5th season, the guy should be competent at something. I hope they spin it more as he can't balance his time, as opposed to he can't handle the rigors of the mayoral duties. I don't mind some balancing issues, because those can be interesting to explore. But I will give side-eye, if once again OQ is unable to handle the work as it was implied in his CEO duties. Just because he dropped out of 4 colleges because he was partying too hard, does not mean 10 years later he is still that same guy. He has always been intelligent and after the island strategic minded as well. The show should not lose site of the fact that OQ is an intelligent and multi-talented man, despite his serious balance issues.

Edited July 24, 2016 by kismet

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

I don't really understand how Arrow is affected by FlashPoint? If Barry kinda saved Oliver from DD in S4 crossover. So if Barry wasn't there with Powers then OQ should be dead right? And i'm sure alot of things would be different to.. So i don't understand how Flashpoint will only bring pretty minor differences? :S Shouldn't they be HUGE?

I don't think we'll ever see how Arrow is affected by Flashpoint because i think all of Flashpoint will be resolved by the end of 301. I think what you'll have is the risidual/ripple effects of Flashpoint,  which will be very very minor changes, showing up on Arrow.

So far it seems to be that Diggle's family will be affected  (Lyla, Sara/No Sara, Sara's Twin Brother - i forget who speculated this one but, i like it.).

Felicity will carry around something as a result.  Somepeople think she's pregnant, I'm thinking they literally mean carrying something  (bag, tablet, etc).  I also heard some spec about Felicity carrying the knowledge of the AU around with her but, that seems more of a Cisco thing. 

I have no idea how Oliver would potentially be impacted,  they haven't given any hints that I'm aware of.

[dtissagirl]

9 minutes ago, DeadZeus said:

I don't really understand how Arrow is affected by FlashPoint? If Barry kinda saved Oliver from DD in S4 crossover. So if Barry wasn't there with Powers then OQ should be dead right? And i'm sure alot of things would be different to.. So i don't understand how Flashpoint will only bring pretty minor differences? :S Shouldn't they be HUGE?

It's not the completely different alternate reality Barry created that is gonna affect the other shows. It's that, after Barry "fixes" his fuckup, and goes back to his original timeline, some little details are off. That's what they seem to be doing.

[HighHopes]

4 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

He's making them? I didn't know that!

I was under the impression that Oliver was taking off to either do recon or fight during the times when he should be doing mayoral work, which would make him absentee, and therefore unable to do a lot of mayor stuff by virtue of just not being there - not that he's physically exhausted or somehow mentally unable to do the work and Thea and Felicity are picking up the slack. Thea isn't vigilante-ing, so taking off to vigilante isn't an issue for her. And I don't know if Felicity has a day job at this point or what, so who knows? But she's helped out on comms and such during work before, so if she is working I assume multitasking isn't an issue now? 

Not sure any of this really matters since Oliver's absenteeism or lax leadership is something that they're nipping in the bud in the first or second ep. Then Thea and Felicity should be able to go on their merry ways and get on with living.

"Make" was the wrong choice of word...but allow? Be okay with? Even if they offer, I hope he acknowledges what they are doing. Felicity should not have to do his work while he's out doing recon (which...wouldn't she be on the coms while he's doing that?). I hate the idea that instead of Felicity focusing on the chip or her own job, she's doing Oliver's for him. That is the spoiler, so I assume that is what is happening. 

If this has happens in the first episode, I assume it's been that way for the past 5 months. And yeah, no thanks. I have no interest in seeing Oliver slack of his day job to Felicity again. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by HighHopes

[kismet]

I do find it hysterical that the fandom is pushing a pregnancy being what FS is carrying around. Considering the last time we saw they have sex was most likely in Mar/Apr, if the baby is OQ's she should be ready to pop any moment. If it was conceived in the summer, I guess it wouldn't a little younger and perhaps not showing. But that literal, she will be carrying something and it's a baby is funny to me. I guess we'll find out the big reveal in episode 5! Just kidding.

I think its more plausible that LL has a secret child from OQ and that is a legacy that will be on the show for years than FS is currently pregnant.

[statsgirl]

When SA says that Oliver's most important relationship is with Star City and he's a garbage mayor, does he not see the contradiction in those two ideas?  When Robert told him to right his wrongs and save the city, I bet he was thinking more in terms of being a good businessman and maybe politician, not donning green leather and killing people.

6 hours ago, looptab said:

That's probably all it is. My first uncharitable thought was that Stephen had to reaffirm that no, they're equals, Felicity has not emasculated Oliver! After hearing so much of that narrative.:)

I thought yay, they're addressing the complaints of the fanboys who think that Oliver had been made a wimp now that he's picked Felicity and Laurel is dead.

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
Seat42F interview with DR

-- DR: "The show's strongest as kind of a street-level, crimefighting phenomenon, right?  Diggle - or Oliver and Diggle and two or three other characters' brawn and Felicity's brain. And, um, I think that's really been the strength of the show on a street level. Getting back to that... Nukes and magic, it all feels a little flashy - though it worked incredibly well last season. Um, I think the strength of the show is the kind of street-level, crimefighting show. So we're getting back to that."

I wonder how he feels about Oliver, Diggle and three new fighters along with Thea coming back later.  That's a lot of people to juggle.

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
Nerdophiles interview with EBR
(video posted by bijoux on page 40 of the Spoilers thread)

-- On Olicity, EBR: "Their romantic relationship has disintegrated, um, but their communication is getting better.  Their work partnership has never been stronger. I think that does have to do with the communication and probably the breakup had a part to do with that. And they're discovering things about having to work through new things over the team also being disintegrated at the same time and like trying to rebuild certain things - building a team, building a new aspect of their relationship, it's all very [unintelligible word]."

[snip]

-- On Havenrock, EBR: "That is her crux of the season. She definitely carries a lot on her shoulders from that. I mean, choosing the lesser  of two evils doesn't really, you know, eliminate the fact that she killed 10,000 people... And also there has to be something said about doing something you feel guilty about that is at such a distance, but you were the main part of it. Like, it is, you know, across the country and that, you know, she's probably at home checking up on the news every day and if people come to her that she meets that are from there, how does that guilt, you know, stir her up? And how long can she bottle it up and forget about it until it, you know, [unintelligible word] in her nightmares or her demons."  She asked to show more of Felicity's feeling guilt over Havenrock.

-- On getting Palmer Tech back, EBR: "I don't know. I mean, I haven't seen anything or heard anything about Palmer Tech this season yet. I think her main goal is to get the microchip more accessible to the public access and working towards helping people with paralysis - working towards that. That's really important to her."

All these make me happy.  I like the idea that even though they have stepped back from a romantic relationship, Oliver and Felicity are communicating better because let's face it, given season 3 and 4, they really need to.

I also like that her feelings about Havenrock haven't been dropped.  I don't know if the chip will play a role in the season or not (more likely not) but at least EBR hasn't forgotten about it.

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

So, if the Palmer Tech set is gone, then...I guess those weren't Palmer Tech shirts Echo and the newbies were wearing in that BTS pic Echo posted a week or so ago? Or maybe Palmer Tech still exists, we just aren't going to see it? Otherwise, how would Felicity be working to get the implant available to the public? Unless that's EBR's head canon but isn't being addressed on the show at all (yet). Too many questions!

I think it's more technically business than the show does well.  Felicity is still the majority shareholder and PT owns the chip so she's got some say in it.  I doubt the show will spend time on it though, too many masks to take care of, including Curtis himself, inventor of the chip.

Edited July 24, 2016 by statsgirl

[EmeraldArcher]

From EBR's description of Felicity struggling with her guilt over Havenrock and how heavy that is for her, I just can't see her trying to date someone new. So, I think the earlier spoiler about her having a boyfriend (even one in Off-Screenville that doesn't last) doesn't fit with what sounds like where she is emotionally.

The city has fallen, new threats and vigilantes are running amok, Oliver can't perform decently as the mayor and GA, Felicity is trying to function without the old team while partnering with Oliver in the lair and in the mayor's office--all while she's feeling massively guilty and probably grieving Laurel. Furthermore, she and Oliver are coming to terms with the need to kill again when necessary. 

I just don't think there's any way she's dipping her brightly painted toe back in the dating pool. At this point, Oliver is the only potential love interest who would understand her life, and they're not together. As far back as S1, she understood that it would be impossible to tell anyone about her day/nights on the team, and I don't see her wanting to be dishonest with a new boyfriend when she was just on the receiving end of that in S4 with Oliver.

But, maybe I'm just expecting authentic characterizations when I should know better by now. 

*******************************************************

Never mind.  The newest video just debunked my entire post when Emily confirmed Felicity has a new boyfriend in 501. Ugh.

Edited July 24, 2016 by EmeraldArcher
I was wrong to assume there'd be authentic characterization.

[Chaser]

I haven't seen the new video but when I read the article and saw RUN, I'm like It's Barry. 

If it's true, I joked earlier that Flashpoint gets Felicity a BF. It was supposed to stay a joke. Lol

Edited July 24, 2016 by Chaser

[bijoux]

3 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Guess i was wrong about CRDust being the Jewish Guy. 2 days ago i would have been happy but, he grew on me at the Nerd HQ panel. Now, I'm actually kind of sad.

After SA said he auditioned for another, recurring role which ended up going to someone else, I'm actually convinced that's what his original audition was for. If Oliver doesn't kill him and they like him, they can always invite him back.

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

So, if the Palmer Tech set is gone, then...I guess those weren't Palmer Tech shirts Echo and the newbies were wearing in that BTS pic Echo posted a week or so ago? Or maybe Palmer Tech still exists, we just aren't going to see it? Otherwise, how would Felicity be working to get the implant available to the public? Unless that's EBR's head canon but isn't being addressed on the show at all (yet). Too many questions!

They're obviously Team Arrow Class of 2017 shirts.

[bijoux]

Wm mentioned corruption within the police being an issue this season. We know that Lt Pike is showing up at the start of the season. Could he have been a rotten apple all along? And once that is revealed, it could be a lead in to Lance getting back on the force. He's there in the lair with Felicity, Thea and Curtis. Felicity is wearing the same outfit she is when she tells Oliver he expects things to go back to the way they were and I presume this is the start of their argument in 501. Meaning Lance is back and involved in TA activities in the season premiere.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, bijoux said:

We know that Lt Pike is showing up at the start of the season. Could he have been a rotten apple all along?

That's so SCPD!!!

[looptab]

25 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I thought yay, they're addressing the complaints of the fanboys who think that Oliver had been made a wimp now that he's picked Felicity and Laurel is dead.

Haha so basically the same issue just from two different POVs. :)

Edited July 24, 2016 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

26 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

Never mind.  The newest video just debunked my entire post when Emily confirmed Felicity has a new boyfriend in 501. Ugh.

I hope this one's better than Raybot!