Spoiler Discussion Thread

[kismet]

4 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I wonder if this dude is going to be this year's Jessica Danforth, who we speculated about for pages and pages (and even discussed whether or not she could be Diggle's mom, lmao) who wound up being in the show for a grand total of about 10 minutes, haha. 

This one is a guy so he'll probably get 20 min & a few min of a guest appearances down the road.

I think he's going to be a POC Anarky.

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

(In Ben Stein's voice) Yipee! Another mask. Another dude in the lair. Can't wait.

(Back to regular voice) The article said multiple episodes, so definitely not like Danforth.  But someone Oliver takes under his wing? With talk that Roy is coming back, isn't the mentee role already filled? (There's also Thea) Plus, Curtis waiting in the wings to be "Terrific."

 

I suppose he's going to be someone that Oliver really sees as a version of himself.  Roy was in spirit but he didn't have the same backstory and he was already more connected to people when we met him with his relationship with Thea. 

Basically Huntress 2.0 except for the part where he sleeps with him.  Or maybe that's going to show up in sweeps week. 

[wonderwall]

22 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I suppose he's going to be someone that Oliver really sees as a version of himself.  Roy was in spirit but he didn't have the same backstory and he was already more connected to people when we met him with his relationship with Thea. 

Basically Huntress 2.0 except for the part where he sleeps with him.  Or maybe that's going to show up in sweeps week. 

I'm sorry, but Oliver sleeping with Timo Cruz isn't comic canon so it's obviously not going to happen :p

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I'm sorry, but Oliver sleeping with Timo Cruz isn't comic canon so it's obviously not going to happen :p

But Arrow is telling its OWN story!  lol

[tv echo]

Rick Gonzalez is 5'8" (so not taller than SA for a change) and 36 years old.  Here's his twitter account:
https://twitter.com/officialrickg

Stephen Amell  6'1"
David Ramsey  6'2"
Paul Blackthorne  6'4"
Echo Kellum  6'4"
Neal McDonough  6'0"
Colton Haynes  5'9"

[foreverevolving]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

Rick Gonzalez is 5'8" (so not taller than SA for a change) and 36 years old.  Here's his twitter account:
https://twitter.com/officialrickg

Stephen Amell  6'1"
David Ramsey  6'2"
Paul Blackthorne  6'4"
Echo Kellum  6'4"
Neal McDonough  6'0"
Colton Haynes  5'9"

Hold on!, Colton is 5'9!!! I was absolutely sure he was soo much shorter than that!

Also, i'm looking at those heights and it shocks me a bit. I remember back in the 90's where most leading men (that I followed anyway) were averaged at 5'7-5'9 a few were 6`... and now it feels like they are all 6` and up!

Edited June 16, 2016 by foreverevolving

[catrox14]

JB is 5'11

[looptab]

I never realized PB was 6'4" instead o.O

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, foreverevolving said:

Hold on!, Colton is 5'9!!! I was absolutely sure he was soo much shorter than that!

Also, i'm looking at those heights and it shocks me a bit. I remember back in the 90's where most leading men (that I followed anyway) were averaged at 5'7-5'9 a few were 6`... and now it feels like they are all 6` and up!

Men lie about their height, especially actors 

[HighHopes]

Sigh.

So we lost a female character in season 4*, and now the show has added two male (series regular) characters. Right now the only female characters on the show are Felicity (Oliver's love interest) and Thea (Oliver's sister). I really really hope they announce a female character soon, a) so we can have more of a balance of characters and b) so Felicity can finally have the friend EBR desperately wants for her. 

*Laurel wasn't the best received, and KC's headcanons kinda messed with the character-- but I will miss the show having more female characters besides the one blood related to Oliver and the one Oliver is in love with. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by HighHopes
We just finished season four, not five. Whoops.

[looptab]

I'll be over here laughing at them hiring a new actor to play a district attorney, when they had ADA Laurel for 3 seasons and did nothing with it. LOL

[catrox14]

We have Lyla too

[HighHopes]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

We have Lyla too

True, but both DR and EBR have said that the actress doesn't have the best availability. I love Lyla, she's probably one of my favourite characters- but the show needs more series regular female characters IMO. 

[looptab]

Is this guy supposed to be "James", or are they going to cast another regular?

[way2interested]

Just now, looptab said:

Is this guy supposed to be "James", or are they going to cast another regular?

I have a feeling that this guy is James, with the whole series regular plus the comic ties towards vigilantism that the original character breakdown hinted at.

[Morrigan2575]

18 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I have a feeling that this guy is James, with the whole series regular plus the comic ties towards vigilantism that the original character breakdown hinted at.

huh? the vigilante character and James are different characters AFAIK.

ETA: I get it now, it's the comic characters bio. Well, that's always hit or kiss with this group, they very often take character from the comics in name only.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

I really think this guy will be Blood like villain, the real big bad villain will be pulling strings.

[tarotx]

I hope this means JB won't be a series regular.  So many guys. And who knows what's happening with the Flashbacks. More guys? 

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

I really think this guy will be Blood like villain, the real big bad villain will be pulling strings.

Blood is precisely who I thought about and man, what a WASTE of Kevin Alejandro. I really liked Blood as villains go. Man. :(.

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

huh? the vigilante character and James are different characters AFAIK.

Idk, to me it connected. This guy, series regular; James, series regular. This guy, Oliver's ally; James, Oliver's contemporary. This guy, aims to clean up the streets through the legal system; James, a "man on a mission.” This confirmation could just be leaving out the tragic past/avenging part, but that could just be me. I hope they are the same, since I don't really want three new male series regulars. 

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Idk, to me it connected. This guy, series regular; James, series regular. This guy, Oliver's ally; James, Oliver's contemporary. This guy, aims to clean up the streets through the legal system; James, a "man on a mission.” This confirmation could just be leaving out the tragic past/avenging part, but that could just be me. I hope they are the same, since I don't really want three new male series regulars. 

oh i definitely think this guy is James that's not in question.

But the two casting notices we had were for James and the Ex-Marine turned Vigilante.   Those are 2 different characters with two different actors already cast.  I don't recall the James casting notice talking about him being a vigilante.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

The big bad definetely wasnt cast yet

Quote

Other Season 5 additions include Rick Gonzalez (Reaper) as the vigilante Wild Dog and a yet-to-be-cast ruthless crime lord loosely inspired by Idris Elba’s Wire drug kingpin Stringer Bell.

http://tvline.com/2016/06/16/arrow-casts-josh-segarra-adrian-chase-series-regular-season-5/

[apinknightmare]

Quote

A New York City district attorney whose family was killed by mobsters,

Oliver somehow killed this dude's family while in the Bratva, Y/Y?

[Morrigan2575]

Oh, yeah totally forgot about the Idirs Elba type character 

[EmeraldArcher]

1 hour ago, looptab said:

I'll be over here laughing at them hiring a new actor to play a district attorney, when they had ADA Laurel for 3 seasons and did nothing with it. LOL

Yeah, I read the description as confirmation of the rumors and assumptions about BTS stuff leading to LL's demise instead of the lines about story.  

Seriously? A DA ally for Oliver who tries to get justice in the system and is willing to go outside the law?  They already had LL for that.

I agree with @HighHopes that I wish we had more women on the show, but #Poppy makes me cautious about wanting them in the BF.

Edited June 16, 2016 by EmeraldArcher
"we" and "me" are not the same.

[Guest]

Yeah, I do think there needs to be some more women on the show. Or at least bring in Lyla as a season regular. I'm happy seeing some more diverse casting though.

Mainly I'm trying not to judge things right now because I remember we talked endlessly about some of the casting notices and they ended up being in one episode.

[tv echo]

Josh Segarra has been described as a "29-year-old Puerto Rican heartthrob" (he just turned 30 on June 3) and is 6'0" tall.  I have not found a twitter account for him, but here's a recent interview with him (regarding his current role of Emilio Estefan in On Your Feet on Broadway)...

Josh Segarra in Broadway's Story of Emilio & Gloria Estefan
Published on Jun 3, 2016, by Steve Adubato

Edited June 16, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

11 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

Yeah, I read the description as confirmation of the rumors and assumptions about BTS stuff leading to LL's demise instead of the lines about story.  

Seriously? A DA ally for Oliver who tries to get justice in the system and is willing to go outside the law?  They already had LL for that.

I really don't think he's going to be a LL replacement - he's probably going to be revealed as somehow working against Oliver (either with a villain, like Blood and Deathstroke, or he'll have his own vendetta against Oliver for something he did while in the Bratva). 

[tv echo]

So it looks like there are three new male characters so far:

• Adrian Chase* (formerly, "James"), Star City's charming new D.A., to be played by Josh Segarra - regular role
• Wild Dog, the ex-marine turned reckless vigilante, to be played by Rick Gonzalez - recurring role
• "Anton Church", the ruthless crime lord, not yet cast - the S5 Big Bad?

(* To add to the confusion, Adrian Chase's alter ego is known as The Vigilante in the comics.)

[way2interested]

Just now, tv echo said:

So it looks like there are three new male characters so far:

• Adrian Chase* (formerly, "James"), Star City's charming new D.A., to be played by Josh Segarra - regular role
• Wild Dog, the ex-marine turned reckless vigilante, to be played by Rick Gonzalez - recurring role
• "Anton Church", the ruthless crime lord, not yet cast - the S5 Big Bad?

(* To add to the confusion, Adrian Chase's alter ego is known as The Vigilante in the comics.)

Also Derek Zaba, presumably flashback guy.

[EmeraldArcher]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I really don't think he's going to be a LL replacement - he's probably going to be revealed as somehow working against Oliver (either with a villain, like Blood and Deathstroke, or he'll have his own vendetta against Oliver for something he did while in the Bratva). 

My point stands. 

Although she died before they could reveal which villain she was aiding, LL's supposed incompetence was definitely in the spirit of "somehow working against Oliver."

And, I will never believe that her desire to force her way into Oliver's inner circle wasn't a part of her secret vendetta against Oliver for never choosing her.

Nobody is that incompetent or that clingy without some nefarious plan in the works! LOL!

;-)

[tv echo]

There certainly are a lot of new guys being added to S5.  But you know, as soon as they announce a new female character in her 20s-30s, we're going to be speculating about whether or not she's a new love interest for Oliver.

[EmeraldArcher]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

There certainly are a lot of new guys being added to S5.  But you know, as soon as they announce a new female character in her 20s-30s, we're going to be speculating about whether or not she's a new love interest for Oliver.

I don't even want to speculate that we'll speculate that!  As in, NOOOOOOOOOO!

I know we will though, because I read the description about one of the new guys being Jewish, and my very first thought was, "They [the show--not anybody here] had better not even HINT about him being a remotely possible love interest for Felicity."  Which is such as crazy thought, because it's never even been hinted that she looks for guys within her own faith or heritage.  

[Belinea]

I really truly hope that whatever they do, they won't bring back love triangles in any way shape or form. God knows they can do so much with the show other than that. 

[Proteus]

52 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Josh Segarra has been described as a "29-year-old Puerto Rican heartthrob" (he just turned 30 on June 3) and is 6'0" tall.  I have not found a twitter account for him, but here's a recent interview with him (regarding his current role of Emilio Estefan in On Your Feet on Broadway)...

Josh Segarra in Broadway's Story of Emilio & Gloria Estefan
Published on Jun 3, 2016, by Steve Adubato

 

He played Voights son on Chicago PD. He had a good amount of screen time on that show.

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I really truly hope that whatever they do, they won't bring back love triangles in any way shape or form. God knows they can do so much with the show other than that. 

They aren't even that great with love straight lines. They should definitely stay away from the triangles. 

[apinknightmare]

Question:

I've been looking at some commentary on this casting news, and there are a lot of people angry about the comparisons to Laurel. I've seen a few things mentioned over and over that I don't recall ever hearing from the EPs, and I was wondering if anyone can corroborate, or has any sources handy? I haven't had much luck googling. 

* Did MG or WM ever say that they ran out of story for Laurel? I remember them saying something similar about Moira, and KC saying something kind of like that (or maybe it was that she felt they'd told Laurel's story? I can't remember) - but I don't recall ever seeing anything like that mentioned by one of the EPs. 

*Did MG or any of the other EPs mention that writing the legal stuff was a slog and that's why Laurel got sidelined as a character? Because I kind of recall something about them not liking the courtroom scenes, but we saw plenty of non-courtroom Laurel stuff throughout the series, so that doesn't seem right. Did they mention that's why we didn't see much of her actually in court, maybe?

Edited June 17, 2016 by apinknightmare

[SmallScreenDiva]

From what I could recall, the EPs argument for killing off the character was because it made sense "creatively" and to propel story forward. Unlike with Susanna Thompson, where they said something about running out of stories for Moira, Guggenheim has never said that about Laurel, AFAIK.

Arrow bosses explain that shocking death

I think we've talked on this board about how Arrow seems to have left court stuff behind in after S1 and speculated on the reason for it. And there's something niggling at the back of my mind about the court stuff that EPs may have addresses but I can't seem to recall what exactly it is right now.

Edited June 17, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[AyChihuahua]

I feel like we heard, maybe from a critic or insider, that they didn't like writing the legal stuff (which is fair, bc seriously, they fucking SUCK at writing the legal stuff, and I say that knowing full well Guggie graduated from my law school). I'm not positive, though. I feel like we are going to see very nearly zero of this guy actually lawyering. [Please.]

[wonderwall]

12 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Question:

I've been looking at some commentary on this casting news, and there are a lot of people angry about the comparisons to Laurel. I've seen a few things mentioned over and over that I don't recall ever hearing from the EPs, and I was wondering if anyone can corroborate, or has any sources handy? I haven't had much luck googling. 

* Did MG or WM ever say that they ran out of story for Laurel? I remember them saying something similar about  KC saying something kind of like that (or maybe it was that she felt they'd told Laurel's story? I can't remember) - but I don't recall ever seeing anything like that mentioned by one of the EPs. 

*Did MG or any of the other EPs mention that writing the legal stuff was a slog and that's why Laurel got sidelined as a character? Because I kind of recall something about them not liking the courtroom scenes, but we saw plenty of non-courtroom Laurel stuff throughout the series, so that doesn't seem right. Did they mention that's why we didn't see much of her actually in court, maybe?

Are there people angry with the comparisons to LL? I just saw people who were amused :p

1) Neither EPs ever said they ran out of story for Laurel. They did it because they said it made sense and that they didn't want to kill anyone else (process of elimination)... Basically they implied Laurel was the most expendable, not that they didn't have any story left for her. 

2) MG nor the EPs ever said that LL being a lawyer was why she was sidelined. I believe they firmly felt that LL was sidelined for the first 2 seasons because she didn't know Oliver's secret. But it makes sense that they don't like writing legal stuff and definitely could be a reason why she was sidelined... Which, wtf, then why make LL a lawyer in the first place?

[apinknightmare]

Just now, wonderwall said:

Are there people angry with the comparisons to LL? I just saw people who were amused :p

I don't want to veer into fan talk because I mainly just mentioned anger about the comparison to list the reasons for it so I could possibly get some links, but yes. Basically because they think this dude is a direct replacement (DA, etc) for her. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

The surface similarities are definitely there: lawyer, works in the DA's office, is a vigilante. But that's pretty much where the similarities end, I would think. For one, I don't think Oliver banged this guy AND his sister (OR MAYBE HE DID?!?! ) So just right there the dynamic is going to be different ;)

Edited June 17, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva
Because it's spelled lawyer, not laywer

[kismet]

As for why LL was a lawyer, I think because it fulfilled TPTB's desire to copy Batman. But also in s1 LL being a lawyer worked because she could be involved in the cases and still be not aware of his secret ID. So it did work in s1. When they started to take the show in a different direction in s2 is when the plan started to fall apart. In s3 & s4, they were really no longer focusing on justice or cases of the week, rather every season was geared around defeating the big bad. So her ADA lawyering made little sense to the plot. If LL had still be relevant to OQ's life, then perhaps it would make sense to show it, just like they showed Palmer Tech this year because FS is important to the Arrow story. However, LL the DA got pushed to the back burner because LL had become expendable to the Arrow story - not that the DA was expendable. By their own choice, they had to kill someone big in s4 and by a process of elimination LL was the best option.

It makes sense if they are putting OQ in the mayoral office, they need someone for him to act off of. Ally, frenemy or antagonist - there has to be someone for OQ to have his storylines with or at least have some of the stories develop. A DA is a perfect solution to that problem. But also said DA doesn't need to be there all the time. They can just bring him in whenever they need him, similar to how they handled Curtis in s4.

Honestly, I wish they had just gotten back Dylan Bruce to play the DA. He could be a good antagonist/ally to OQ & the GA. And he can act and look pretty. But whatever, I'm just bitter about the current spoilers - NOTHING about what is coming out about Arrow and the Flarrowverse is making me look forward to next TV season.

[EmeraldArcher]

I had the impression that they're similar just from reading the description in the link in the Spoilers thread.

This is my only place/source for anything related to Arrow, as I keep myself really insulated from anything else out there.  I was just assuming that they would have made comments about LL's story line instead of anything less flattering to KC.  So, I wasn't aware of anything specific when I mentioned it up thread.

[Sunshine]

I think they are surface similarities.  I know the DA is supposed to be the mayor's ally but isn't this character also supposed to be Green Arrow's adversary?    The one who could shake your hand as a friend or break your neck and enjoy doing it?  I think his comic name - Vigilante - is making people assume he is a good guy and joining the team.  My guess is he goes overboard with avenging "his" tragedy which will put him at odds with Green Arrow. Neither one of them will know the other's identity until very late in the season -callback to Malcolm Merlyn/Dark Archer in S1.  Did I misread the TV Line article?

Edited June 17, 2016 by Sunshine

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I think they are surface similarities.  I know the DA is supposed to be the mayor's ally but isn't this character also supposed to be Green Arrow's adversary?    The one who could shake your hand as a friend or break your neck and enjoy doing it?  I think his comic name - Vigilante - is making people assume he is a good guy and joining the team.  My guess is he goes overboard with avenging "his" tragedy which will put him at odds with Green Arrow. Neither one of them knowing the other's identity until very late in the season (Callback to Dark Archer in S1).  Did I misread the TV Line article?

Given this shows history I think assuming a character will be something based on the comics is a huge mistake.  For the most part they take characters and names from the comics and twist them to suit their story needs.

I wouldn't assume that "James" is a good or bad guy, that "James" becomes a costume wearing Vigilante, etc.  

Edited June 17, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[way2interested]

Just now, Sunshine said:

I think they are surface similarities.  I know the DA is supposed to be the mayor's ally but isn't this character also supposed to be Green Arrow's adversary?    The one who could shake your hand as a friend or break your neck and enjoy doing it?  I think his comic name - Vigilante - is making people assume he is a good guy and joining the team.  My guess is he goes overboard with avenging "his" tragedy which will put him at odds with Green Arrow. Neither one of them knowing the other's identity until very late in the season (similar to Dark Archer in S1).  Did I misread the TV Line article?

The description uses words like "contemporary" and "ally," so at this point he's probably going to be a frenemy to Oliver who at some point will try to take vengeance/justice with his own hands. As far as being at odds with Oliver will go, it'll probably be more anti-hero with him and Oliver having a passive aggressive relationship with at most having a pseudo Daredevil/Punisher relationship as vigilantes down the line, kind of like what you're saying. Since there's a whole other villain they have to deal with, I don't necessarily think that they'll be going the adversary route with him, unless he does somehow end up being like Blood.

Although the idea that apparently in the comics his family was killed by mobsters might become the point of contention between Oliver and Chase, if Oliver/Big Bad ended up being part of it. 

[Sunshine]

Thanks @Morrigan2575 and @way2interested.  I completely forgot about the Big Bad. LOL!  

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't want to veer into fan talk because I mainly just mentioned anger about the comparison to list the reasons for it so I could possibly get some links, but yes. Basically because they think this dude is a direct replacement (DA, etc) for her. 

Excellent instincts!  You make a mod's heart grow three sizes!  

[dtissagirl]

The only time I remember an EP saying something in the vicinity of them running out of stories for Laurel was when MG mentioned on Tumblr they had trouble finding stories for her in the 2.5 comics.