Spoiler Discussion Thread

[spartan]

BLACK SIREN IS COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tarotx]

I think Andrew Kreisberg created her and killed her off in Legends-wonder what the chances are that he'll do similar on the Flash?

 

BLACK SIREN IS COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tv echo]

With that words "cavernous space", I just keep imaging the Armageddon virus released onto Star and our beloved city is in full Quarantine. Then after Olicity make up sex, Oliver wakes up alone to find that Argus has pulled the trigger and bombed the city into Collapse. We'll learn next season that Star has had a airtight bubble place over it. And Next season Arrow will be a half apocalypse - half Zombie show more so than a Superhero show :p

 

No - please, not Under the Dome! ;)

Edited April 14, 2016 by tv echo

[Velocity23]

 

BLACK SIREN IS COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might tune in to Flash if AK kills her on the Flash also.

[Password]

I might tune in to Flash if AK kills her on the Flash also.

Dark dude.

[Morrigan2575]

I might tune in to Flash if AK kills her on the Flash also.

I think they will.  I think that's the point but, maybe I'm wrong.

[tarotx]

No - please, not Under the Dome! ;t

LOL. I can't help where my head goes. I was thinking more of a ;) joke at the St Elesewhere ending snowglobe :p

 

But really they could always keep Barry&Co Lost in another Earth so as to not be there to help out Star.

[Jessie2009]

So what's going on with black siren??

[Velocity23]

 

Dark dude.

I had to bite my tongue so many times as i knew KC was fired and everybody was still believing they are never gonna get rid of her. Let me have my moment!

[lemotomato]

I had to bite my tongue so many times as i knew KC was fired and everybody was still believing they are never gonna get rid of her. Let me have my moment!

But why didn't you say something? Wonderwall had to carry the "Laurel is in the grave" theory by herself for the longest time while the rest of us didn't dare to believe.

[Velocity23]

I kept hinting at it. But people were like NOPE NOPE. Because COMICS.

[Morrigan2575]

But why didn't you say something? Wonderwall had to carry the "Laurel is in the grave" theory by herself for the longest time while the rest of us didn't dare to believe.

 

I kept hinting at it. But people were like NOPE NOPE. Because COMICS.

The denial is strong with this fandom.

[catrox14]

I kept hinting at it. But people were like NOPE NOPE. Because COMICS.

 

To me saying someone is being fired is different than saying a character is being written out because they no longer fit into the story in an organic way.  I mean no one really refers to Moira's death as Susannah being fired. Not that I know of.

[tarotx]

It's just that old love interests are almost always let go after they aren't the love interest any more. Laurel lingered. We thought it might be because comics...

 

The denial is strong with this fandom.

[lemotomato]

In my defense, with most of season 3 based on Because Comics, and season 4 starting with the mayoral stuff and introducing the stupid sleeveless suit, I didn't have a lot of reasons to think the show was going to make such a big swerve away from comics.

[statsgirl]

I always thought Laurel should be the one in the grave for storytelling purposes. I just didn't think they had the guts to do it.

 

I'll be surprised though if the Black Siren dies on The Flash. Again, better storytelling potential if she lives.

 

With both Noah and Cooper coming back, I expect that Felicity will face them both down. Which could be fun if they chose to play it that way. Like, Cooper totally latched on to Noah in Iron Heights because he's the Calculator's biggest fan, and Noah can't stand the annoying little shit. Maybe he and Felicity even roll their eyes at how pedestrian Cooper's coding is.

Cooper was very angry at Felicity for selling out, not to mention beating him up.  Maybe he goes to Noah trying to talk him into revenge against Felicity and the world's greatest evil code.

 

They haven't yet checked off the trope where one half of the couple discovers they do want to get back together just as the other half gives up hope and takes a consolation prize thus prompting the first person to shut up and hide their feelings.  Sigh.  This is why I don't want them broken up over the hiatus, not even for what might happen, just for the places my mind takes me. 

Noooooooo!  The worst trope of all because just when we the audience think it's going to be okay, they snatch it away.  And also because it never fails to make both parts of the pairing look shabby, especially when the first person finds someone new too, I hated it on ER, I hated it on Castle, and I never want these evil slimey thoughts to get on Arrow.

 

You take that back right now.

[catrox14]

In my defense, with most of season 3 based on Because Comics, and season 4 starting with the mayoral stuff and introducing the stupid sleeveless suit, I didn't have a lot of reasons to think the show was going to make such a big swerve away from comics.

 

This is where I was at. I also figured KC was so entrenched with CW execs that writing her off would take an act of Congress. Plus I never get nice things on shows I like. Not really. Although I did get Richonne...so small favors..and such.

[tarotx]

Any way I like to think that is kind of what happened in s3 when Felicity decided to have sex with Ray. 

[dtissagirl]

My timeline is I didn't see/hear/know anything about KC being fired prior to the funeral pics leaking. After that, and in hindsight, it became kinda obvious that they were wrapping up Laurel's story with a bow to get rid of KC.

Edited April 14, 2016 by dtissagirl

[wonderwall]

But why didn't you say something? Wonderwall had to carry the "Laurel is in the grave" theory by herself for the longest time while the rest of us didn't dare to believe.

THANK YOU for appreciating my hard work! :p

[tv echo]

In my defense, I was relying on MG's tumblr response in which he denied that KC decided to leave the show.  I never thought that he would be so cruelhonest as to tell the world that she was fired.

Edited April 14, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

It seems weird to me to have her counterpart appear on The Flash so soon after her death unless they are running out her contract and killing her off. If they were looking at keeping her around for story purposes, I would think they would just hint at her existence on The Flash and have it tease through the hiatus. But they aren't even allowing the death to settle before having her appear. 

[tangerine95]

I started thinking season 4 might be when we get rid of Laurel somehow when I saw how clearly they were treating EBR as female lead at SDCC and how KC barely had anything to say about Laurel other than talking about Sara and LoT.And then all the interviews the EPs did where they said Laurel was a fully formed BC which is basically supposed to be the characters endgame and had nothing else to say about her other than she's getting a bike now.Though I at first though she would get written out as leaving the city not killed off until I saw the grave in the premiere.

Imo if you don't look at it from the because comics they can't kill off BC angle, it was pretty clear it would be her.I mean 4.09 imo cemented it since she repeated what Oliver says on the grave almost word for word and Lance had that I don't know what I would do if something happened to Laurel line.They were giving her no new storylines or relationships and giving her all the closure, they weren't very subtle with it.

But I do totally get why people had a hard time believing it was her, she did stick around and was forced on us way longer than makes any sense.What I didn't get was when some people didn't believe it after we got the funeral pics and KC dyed her hair and was posting obviously old pics lol.

[bijoux]

Cooper was very angry at Felicity for selling out, not to mention beating him up.  Maybe he goes to Noah trying to talk him into revenge against Felicity and the world's greatest evil code.

 

Oh, sure he might. I just see Noah completely not into him because it doesn't feel like he's in his and Felicity's league. After all, his biggest attack was using Felicity's five year old code. He's a dilettante compared to them.

[tarotx]

I think they are going to show that just because there are other Laurel's out there, they aren't our Laurel. So they can't just bring her over to arrow. Only KC fans and the Because comics say BC/GA people will want a replaced Laurel. I also think they will deal with why not time travel to bring her back to life on Legends. I truely believe they are using Laurel's death to show death is still something we have to worry for our characters. Sometimes there are no do overs.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Next time less subtle with the hints, maybe?  I was definitely not getting the impression that anyone had any inside info.  And also, please spill the beans on any BTS info you have regarding KC  :)

[Chaser]

I thought there was something off at SDCC, but it wasn't until they confirmed a death in 4x01 that I thought they would actually kill her off.

 

I remember thinking it was super odd that every other character got an arc highlighted expect her. 

[statsgirl]

It seems weird to me to have her counterpart appear on The Flash so soon after her death unless they are running out her contract and killing her off. If they were looking at keeping her around for story purposes, I would think they would just hint at her existence on The Flash and have it tease through the hiatus. But they aren't even allowing the death to settle before having her appear. 

 

I think having her on The Flash as Earth2 Black Siren right now is a really smart idea   It gives her fans hope (See, she's not gone completely, keep watching and she may be back next season, hey, maybe even show up on Arrow) and it's a consolation gift to KC and if they don't kill her at the end of the episode, letting her know they may want her back in future like Roy.

[looptab]

I keep reading of hints being there since SDCC, but I have no idea what you guys are referring to. Just the lack of a storyline for her? Or something else?

 

Also, someone (I believe it was dtissagirl but I'm not sure) posted not long ago some infos about when and why they decided to film the second FF or something, but I don't remember the details. Can anyone refresh my memory? :)

[catrox14]

I didn't get anything from SDCC either. I mean I figured her not having as big a SL was because she had already become BC and was now just going to be part of Team Arrow and work as a DA.  It truly never occurred to me that was sign that she was going to be written out. She had a reason if extraneous to be in the show now.

[Velocity23]

 

Next time less subtle with the hints, maybe?  I was definitely not getting the impression that anyone had any inside info.  And also, please spill the beans on any BTS info you have regarding KC  :)

     Couldnt tell too much. But i was hearing as early as SDCC that this is the year when they can finally let go of KC since they were fullfilling all the little things in her contract.

[AyChihuahua]

I totally don't get the idea that a different Laurel or a resurrected/super-trained Laurel who's now a meta or whatever will come to Arrow. IT'S STILL KC. She literally cannot twirl a stick competently, and as long as she portrays Laurel, which in these theories she would, Laurel will NOT be a believable badass. It's not as if KC will have gone and gotten years of LOA training...plus frankly even if KC did get hardcore into stunt training, it wouldn't matter, bc she's completely uncoordinated. She's maybe more uncoordinated than I am, and I literally hit myself in my own face a couple times practicing punching. And it's not as if they've been trying to make her stunts suck for the last two years...that's simply the best she can do. And the best she can do, at stunts, is absolutely awful. I mean her robot punching/sparring with Oliver was ABSOLUTELY AWFUL, and I have no doubt she was trying to look totally badass. She, quite simply, cannot do it, which means that ANY version of the character played by her cannot do it.

[Velocity23]

The most memorable thing from SDCC was Friday. When KC was absent from all the pics with the cast. There was only 1 pic with PB. Otherwise KC was hanging out with AKs wife. She also looked bored out of her mind during the TV Line interview. No KC at the IGN interviews or photoshoot. And remember the board! And the LA time photoshoot!

Edited April 14, 2016 by Velocity23

[Midnight Lullaby]

At SDCC they basically treated Emily, not KC as the female lead. She went with SA and Wendy to take the IGN interview instead of KC and at the panel there was lots of focus on her too. At least that was my impression. There's also that white-board where not sure which one of them wrote the names of the cast and the EPs and KC's name was missing. But I guess that was just a ironic coincidence, LOL.

[tarotx]

Wasn't KC's name missing at some point at SDCC? And there was some fan tension about what that meant? Or did I just make that up in my head?

[statsgirl]

But KC didn't know back at SDCC that she was going to be in the grave, did she?  Basically SDCC is an acting gig, you play up your show for the fans, and the fact that she was hanging out with AK's wife instead of with the rest of the cast says something about how seriously she took promoting Arrow (which appears to be not much at all) rather than an indication that she was going to be gone.

 

There has been talk for years about her being late for autographs sessions and cancelling cons. That's so KC and they still kept her on the show.

[Velocity23]

 

There has been talk for years about her being late for autographs sessions and cancelling cons. That's so KC and they still kept her on the show.

       They might not have other choice than to keep her.

[looptab]

I don't remember about the IGN interview, but didn't Emily also do most of the interviews with Stephen at SDCC before season 2?

Edited April 14, 2016 by looptab

[tv echo]

Here's all the spoilers that I had regarding the second flash-forward:

-- On who's in the grave, per WM, "there might be” additional flash-forwards “here and there… right around midseason,” that certainly will add to the “Who dies?” mystery. WM: “We’re definitely toying with that... and when and if we do decide to do that, it will reveal even more pertinent information about not who’s going to be in the grave but certainly where our characters are when that [death] happens.” (TVLine article, page 25 of Spoilers thread)

-- Per WM, we can expect an illuminating new flash-forward about the Big Grave Mystery "between Episodes 10 and 15." (TVLine articles, pages 28 and 29 of Spoilers thread)

-- On who's in the grave (after 410), WM: "We have a pretty good idea, but as always on the show, we try to take stories and break them from an organic place. Truth be told, the episode is not written yet. We have a good idea but nothing is ever done until it's done. It's not a full question mark with us, but there are still some questions. We still have to figure stuff out... I can't tell you exactly which episode, but it will definitely be closer to the end [of season four] than to right now." (The Hollywood Reporter article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

-- On whether they know now (after 410) who's in the grave, WM: "I would say that we have a pretty good idea, but that episode is not written yet. We always leave things open to change, but yeah. I think we have a pretty good idea." (TVLine article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

-- Per WM, Felicity is not the one in the grave.  WM: "We now know for sure that it’s not her, but that just shifts the focus to a whole host of other characters. We’re lucky to have a big ensemble and it’s still a big question mark, so we got a chance to have our cake and eat it too, and we took it.” (Variety article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

-- On when the grave scene takes place, WM: "We try to leave the timeline a little bit open. We went back and forth about what timeline that was. It’ll be close to the finale. Right now, the plans are not to have it in the finale, but we won’t be doing any more flash forwards going forward. We wanted to revisit that and have a little fun with the audience in terms of noting where Oliver and Felicity are, emotionally and physically — they’re in a limo outside the gravesite. We have no plans, at this point, to do anymore of those." (EW article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

-- Per WM, we’ll finally learn who dies "towards the end of the season. I can’t tell you which episode– you’ll have to watch! But it’s big stakes and it’s going to be a big shock, so we want to make sure that we handle it with as much care as possible, and that means making sure that we are ramping into it in all the right ways, so that pushes it towards the last few episodes of the season.” (Variety article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

-- On whether the foreshadowed death will be worth the buildup, WM: "I'm very confident it will be worth the wait. It will definitely happen towards the end of the season. I can't tell you which episode, but it's going to be a game-changer, for sure." (ComicBookResources article, page 29 of Spoilers thread)

Edited April 14, 2016 by tv echo

[wonderwall]

Does it really matter anymore? :p She's gone. It's all that matters. 

[Carrie Ann]

(maybe a better discussion for the Social Media/Appearances thread?)

[looptab]

Thank you tv echo, but I actually meant the 'off the record' kind of infos :) I should have clarified:)

Edited April 14, 2016 by looptab

[Velocity23]

Always relevant!

[AyChihuahua]

I don't get it.

Edited April 14, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[Ann Mack]

Always relevant!

When is this and why is it always relevant, not being a smart ass or anything I truly want to know why this is relevant? Is it the time or the discussion during this time frame that makes it relevant? Thanks.

[calliope1975]

I can't speak for Velocity, but that body language from SA screams...I would say unhappy. The crossed arms, the hat pulled about as low as possible - something was going on there. What? I have no idea.

[Morrigan2575]

IGN interview from SDCC 2014.

Here's the video. As for why it's relevant probably for the sheer amount of awkwardness between SA/KC.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

I can't speak for Velocity, but that body language from SA screams...I would say unhappy. The crossed arms, the hat pulled about as low as possible - something was going on there. What? I have no idea.

Oh, okay. Since he pretty much always looked like that around her, I didn't realize that's what was meant.

[Soulfire]

I come bearing gifs.

 

Question for KC: "What do you admire most about Oliver Queen […]?"

 

 

 

 

 

SA's horrified expression is a gift that keeps on giving.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Soulfire

[statsgirl]

IGN interview from SDCC 2014.

At about the 8 minute mark, KC is asked when Sara comes back to town, what will Laurel's relationship with her be like and she says nice things about CL and "it's so nice that she's with us season 3 " and that "their relationship just gets deeper and stronger".and then she throws it to MG. He talks about their rooftop scene and "it's so sisterly, it's so great because it's been five months and she's so back" and then talks about how important Sara is in s3 and that everything that happens in the season is around Sara.

 

WTH guys????  I know you have to pimp the show but now that I know that 2 short scenes is all that Sara was on the entire season, it sounds even cheaper.