Spoiler Discussion Thread

[tarotx]

As I commented on that Article, imo the death this week was in Black and white since the season premiered. TPTB are saying they didn't know but I think they really did know. They had Quentin be in cohorts with Damian Darhk because he feared for Laurel's life. This season had both Lances deal in things over their heads-Lance with Damian and Laurel bringing Sara back angering Nyssa enough for her to "kill" the Lazarus pit. And consequences are about to hit them hard. Imo. I guess if they just let the story they were telling decide who would be the Grave Laurel was who it pointed too. I don't believe they didn't know from the start though. 

[NumberCruncher]

I laugh when showrunners get upset over spoilers because it's such a fact of life in the TV/movie world. The people who read them are still likely going to watch the show regardless and those who don't read them try to avoid them until they watch. It's not the end of the world. The only thing I'll say has been a negative regarding the news of Laurel's demise is that it's prolonged the meltdown and sheer craziness we've witnessed the past few weeks so that's been fun. ;)

[tarotx]

I can way they would be upset with what was happening with Laurel's grave stone on twitter. People were posting it everywhere. I was in a random Thunder cats post at Universe collides fan facebook group and someone posted the Grave stone picture. Someone said that Cheetara looked more like Black Canary than Laurel did and they were happy Laurel was dead and posted the picture. So yeah this was not just regular spoilering. This was a massive spoilering. 

[statsgirl]

When I read a headline like 'Arrow' Producers Tease Grave Reveal: "Dead Is Not Goodbye" immediately followed by news reports about KC/Laurel appearing on The Flash, I shake my head at Guggie saying how upset he is that the news was leaked.  He might as well have had it in skywriting.

Edited April 5, 2016 by statsgirl

[looptab]

Is it me or these advance reviews are trying really hard to make it sound like it's Diggle?

Edited April 5, 2016 by looptab

[Chaser]

From that Hollywood Reporter interview:

 

 

Oh, come on MG.  We know that nobody held a gun to your held and forced you to write in the flashforward grave storyline.  You killed "the character in question" (aka Laurel) because you wanted to!  

 

Also, he seems quite annoyed that the death was spoiled by the paparazzi.  He doesn't deny the fact that the spoilers are true, though.  He just mentions how uncool it was for stuff to leak.

They loved this character so much the only storyline they wrote for her this season is her death.

 

I know some consider Sara a storyline for her but considering that wouldn't have happened without LOT, I don't.

[tarotx]

I think the episode is going to make it seem like it's Diggle and then throw a Cruve that it's actually Laurel. Maybe Laurel even dies saying Diggle?

They loved this character so much the only storyline they wrote for her this season is her death.

 

I know some consider Sara a storyline for her but considering that wouldn't have happened without LOT, I don't.

Even if her Sara story was about Laurel, it is what caused the Lazarus pit to be "killed" and a death Karma to be coming for her. So even that linked to Laurel's death arc.

Edited April 5, 2016 by tarotx

[foreverevolving]

I think the episode is going to make it seem like it's Diggle and then throw a Cruve that it's actually Laurel. Maybe Laurel even dies saying Diggle?

Even if her Sara's story was about Laurel, it is what caused the Lazarus pit to be "killed" and a death Karma to be coming for her. So even that linked to Laurel's death arc.

I do wonder, if by using the pit to resurrect someone, someone who was dead dead, not almost dead like Thea, invokes a life for a life type of consequence?

 

Edit: because proper sentence formation is a good thing.

Edited April 5, 2016 by foreverevolving

[Sakura12]

I'm surprised they didn't put "Dinah Laurel Lance. Always trying to save the world" on her grave. 

 

I wanted some kind of karma for Laurel since Sara's dealing with karma for something she had nothing to do with. For her and Thea it seems to be taking lives for them to live. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Sakura12

[tarotx]

Maybe not on purpose but it sure fits imo. Laurel being the reason Nyssa kills the LP was done on purpose though.  It's beautiful and sad. I know Nyssa will feel the pain of that. 

I do wonder, if by using the pit to resurrect someone (like someone who was dead dead, not almost dead like Thea) has the consequence of a life for a life?

[Chaser]

I'm surprised they didn't put "Dinah Laurel Lance. Always trying to save the world" on her grave. 

 

I wanted some kind of karma for Laurel since Sara's dealing with karma for something she had nothing to do with. For her and Thea it seems to be taking lives for them to live. 

That's too close to Buffy's tombstone for me.

[Velocity23]

Laurel Lance was always supposed to die after the resurrection of Sara. She was the only team member in Central City when Vandal Savage showed up. We also had her say the weird deja-vu remark.

[looptab]

You know for sure she's the one dying because critics are taking the time to even mention her, when they usually never comment on her performance.

What does being in CC when Savage showed up have to do with the death?

Edited April 5, 2016 by looptab

[Velocity23]

She was the only one from team Arrow already in place where it would have gone down. Team Arrow only got involved after Barry and the gang came to Star City. None of them were originally gonna be there.

[looptab]

Oh, the assumption s that Savage would have destroyed CC anyway?

[Velocity23]

yeah. And LL was the only who was always supposed to be there from Arrow. But she escaped death.

[looptab]

Got it ;) I don't know how much I believe that's intentional, but it could be.

[Velocity23]

There was that comment by AK after the crossover that if death if gets want to get you, it will eventually find its way.

[pivot]

Laurel Lance was always supposed to die after the resurrection of Sara. She was the only team member in Central City when Vandal Savage showed up. We also had her say the weird deja-vu remark.

Did the network stop the writers from killing off Laurel back then?

[Velocity23]

 

Did the network stop the writers from killing off Laurel back then?

Nope but the network encouraged them to show an alive Felicity in the limo after 4x10. They wanted to get Felicity off the list first before they started spreading the suspect list.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Velocity23

[Chaser]

Nope but the network encouraged them to show an alive Felicity in the limo after 4x10. They wanted to get Felicity off the list first before they started spreading the suspect list.

They did?

[SmallScreenDiva]

Laurel Lance was always supposed to die after the resurrection of Sara. She was the only team member in Central City when Vandal Savage showed up. We also had her say the weird deja-vu remark.

 

You mean she was supposed to die in the crossover? Or that they were laying down the clues even then?

[Velocity23]

 

You mean she was supposed to die in the crossover? Or that they were laying down the clues even then?

Yup, especially after i read the interviews during crossovers. Had final destination vibes.

[Angel12d]

I have to admit, I will be impressed if they link her death back to the fact that she was always supposed to die in CC. That is an interesting theory. I'm not sure if the writers are that clever. LOL.

[Velocity23]

I mean Oliver told Laurel about time travel. He could have confided in anybody else but he chose LL.

 

They did?

They filmed the limo scene in 4x10 during 4x13/4x14. That is why they had Bam do it. I would say the network had its demands.

[tv echo]

Is this new? Does it mean Papa Smoak is back to film 422/423?

https://twitter.com/buffy_smoak/status/717365768598331395

 

Probably for 422, which has shoot dates of March 30 - April 8. Also, I believe Donna is in 422, since she tweeted a pic of herself with EK on April 4.

Edited April 5, 2016 by tv echo

[way2interested]

They filmed the limo scene in 4x10 during 4x13/4x14. That is why they had Bam do it. I would say the network had its demands.

Pretty ironic considering that this is the same network that went on for over a month pretending that Felicity was dead after 409 promotion-wise.

Edited April 5, 2016 by way2interested

[Morrigan2575]

Probably for 422, which has shoot dates of March 30 - April 8. Also, I believe Donna is in 422, since she tweeted a pic of herself with EK on April 4.

Definitely 4/22 but I was thinking maybe 4/23 as well

[kismet]

I betcha they cut the FS/CHt scene because now that Echo has signed on to be a regular they are going to change the timeline of his journey. Perhaps they had a more accelerated plan, but now they do not need to do it. Plus I think it would be insensitive to make it seem like Echo is replacing KC both on screen and off screen, which is what it feels like from my perspective with them dropping the information the same week and holding a screening to make sure everybody knew for sure. So by minimizing him in her death episode, it at least by making her death the focus of the episode it gives her that as consolation prize.

[wonderwall]

I betcha they cut the FS/CHt scene because now that Echo has signed on to be a regular they are going to change the timeline of his journey. 

 

I doubt it considering they probably signed him on a while ago but wanted to keep it hush hush.

[tarotx]

I think they dropped the Echo as regular news because he can be used as replacement for everybody on team arrow-Mask comic hero: BC/Speedy, Black Driver/second male in the Arrow cave: Diggle and Tech guy: Felicity. He also can replace Barry/Cisco so no need for more cross overs...

Edited April 5, 2016 by tarotx

[tv echo]

From the IGN article (page 34 of Spoilers thread):

There’s another bit of father/daughter drama, but the good kind, as a job promotion opens up for Laurel Lance, and she’s faced with a big decision regarding her superhero/civilian life that father Quentin Lance will have to help her make -- without the use of swords.

 

Remember that TVLine interview from some time ago when WM said that Laurel will struggle with her dual identity as a secret vigilante (Black Canary) and being an ADA?  (TVLine article, page 19 of Spoilers thread)

 

What if part of the heartbreaking aspect of Laurel's death is that shortly before it happens, she has a talk with her father and decides that, for her father's sake, after she helps the team take down Darhk, she's going to give up being the Black Canary and focus on using her lawyer skills to fight crime?  

 

Maybe the job offer from the new mayor is being the city's chief legal counsel (City Attorney General).

Edited April 5, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

The only thing is that if Ruve is the mayor, Laurel choosing lawyering over superheroing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Still holding out that hope that Oliver gets elected via write-in.

[AyChihuahua]

One of the reviews, I think, specifically said the offer was from the new mayor, and name-checked Ruve. Like "an offer from SC's new mayor, Ruve Adams..." It makes no sense at all to me that LL would think about happily jaunting off to be the DA or whatever for the supervillain/his wife. The only thing that would make that make sense be LL going undercover, but that wouldn't be happy?

 

Weird.

[Genki]

I think they dropped the Echo as regular news because he can be used as replacement for everybody on team arrow-Mask comic hero: BC/Speedy, Black Driver/second male in the Arrow cave: Diggle and Tech guy: Felicity. He also can replace Barry/Cisco so no need for more cross overs...

 

 

Also no room for Ray Palmer to return. :evil grin

 

I don't mind them dropping the news about Echo's status this week, IMO I'd prefer if he takes some heat for Laurel's death that could potentially go to Felicity.

 

I'm glad we got confirmation about Papa Smoak returning, what I find interesting is that in this week's Ask Ausiello that had this spoiler for Supergirl, about "Cadmus" which was on the Tech that Papa Somoak was using in 4.12.

 

This AAnd That…

♦  Project Cadmus will “definitely” play a role in Supergirl‘s (not-yet-ordered) second season, according to exec producer Andrew Kreisberg, noting that the evil conglomerate “has such a rich history in the comics and the animated shows.” Until it makes its formal debut, Cadmus will “remain more of an evil, specter-y thing that’s out there.”

[bijoux]

Probably for 422, which has shoot dates of March 30 - April 8. Also, I believe Donna is in 422, since she tweeted a pic of herself with EK on April 4.

 

Donna's definitely in 422. CR and PB said she would be filming it at the Salt Lake Comic Con. 

 

 

Also no room for Ray Palmer to return. :evil grin

 

Mean. Snicker.

[Midnight Lullaby]

One of the reviews, I think, specifically said the offer was from the new mayor, and name-checked Ruve. Like "an offer from SC's new mayor, Ruve Adams..." It makes no sense at all to me that LL would think about happily jaunting off to be the DA or whatever for the supervillain/his wife. The only thing that would make that make sense be LL going undercover, but that wouldn't be happy?

 

Weird.

If you are referring to GATV advanced review he never said the new mayor is going to be Ruve.

[AyChihuahua]

If you are referring to GATV advanced review he never said the new mayor is going to be Ruve.

No, there are a bunch of others. Also, if the new mayor were Oliver, why would she be torn about taking a job from him? And why would he be dealing with her decision when he made the offer? 

[ComicFan777]

I would think that it makes the most sense that Ruve is giving the offer since Laurel is conflicted. 

 

If Oliver offered her a new job, I don't think it would conflict with superheroing since he is a superhero, too...and she would love to be with Oliver day time/night time, no hesitation.

[lemotomato]

[James Queally] said on Twitter he wrote that prior to the screening.

That's good to hear. I think he's pretty fair in his reviews, and I'd hate to think he likes to troll.

[Genki]

No, there are a bunch of others. Also, if the new mayor were Oliver, why would she be torn about taking a job from him? And why would he be dealing with her decision when he made the offer? 

 

Also if Oliver was Mayor, why would he even offer a job to Laurel? She was never part of his campaign and for vigilante activity her being in the DA's office is way better for TA .

 

Last week Ruve was offering the job to Thea's boyfriend and Laurel suggested he try for one at PT, probably getting rid of the competition. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Genki

[statsgirl]

So if Ruve is the new mayor (which would mean that Oliver has definitely failed the city), do you think she will stick around for next season whatever happens to DD?  Or will she be exposed when he is and Star City will be mayor-less once again?

[AyChihuahua]

Also if Oliver was Mayor, why would he even offer a job to Laurel? She was never part of his campaign. Last week Ruve was offering the job to Thea's boyfriend and Laurel suggested he try for one at PT, probably getting rid of the competition. 

Maybe in weird-ass SC the mayor appoints the DA? But yeah, it seems fairly clear to me that the offer is from Ruve in her new position as mayor. I'm just not sure why that's father/daughter drama of the good kind? Evil chick offers you a job, you say NO. You don't need your dad's advice to figure that one out.

 

It could be that she wants to go undercover, but that doesn't seem like a good thing, either.  I don't know, the IGN article is maybe just written oddly. 

[ComicFan777]

I've seen speculation that Ruve offers Laurel a job or she outs her as the BC, which in turn could endanger the team.  She chooses to continue being the BC, gets killed for standing up to Ruve, and that's why it's important to have BC mentioned on her tombstone because that's what she died for.

Edited April 5, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Midnight Lullaby]

No, there are a bunch of others. Also, if the new mayor were Oliver, why would she be torn about taking a job from him? And why would he be dealing with her decision when he made the offer?

I imagined she could be torn because she would have to decide where she can do more good. And she and Oliver would have to talk about it if he is making the offer. But I also just read the GATV advanced review so my view on it is partial.

I just have a hard time seeing LL wondering about accepting Ruve's job offer after all their arguments against the idea when it was about Alex.

And the other thing that makes me wonder is the paps talking about "Queen for mayor" when they posted the pics of the party Oliver, Thea and LL are going to be at in this ep.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Password]

This is probably mean but I can't wait until we see people's shock and horror at Laurel dying.

*snickers*

Oh man so mean.

[lemotomato]

Arrow's Marc Guggenheim On The Social Media Firestorm From Tomorrow's Big Death

Russ Burlingame - 04/05/2016

http://comicbook.com/2016/04/05/arrows-marc-guggenheim-on-the-social-media-firestorm-from-tomorr/

 

Guggenheim said that "It's never been just about one or two different particular fan bases. We make the creative choices we feel benefit the show as a whole, and the story that we're telling overall."

I feel like if there were any external factor that tipped the scales for killing off Laurel (as opposed to say, Lance, who would have been a much safer choice), I think it's the fact that MG has been saying this since the dawn of time and no one believed him. He was never going to be free of getting asked "Do you write the show for the show's sake? Or to honor comics? Or to pander to fanbases?" until Laurel was off the show because she was the focal point of those questions.

Edited April 5, 2016 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

I imagined she could be torn because she would have to decide where she can do more good. And she and Oliver would have to talk about it if he is making the offer. But I also just read the GATV advanced review so my view on it is partial.

I just have a hard time seeing LL wondering about accepting Ruve's job offer after all their arguments against the idea when it was about Alex.

And the other thing that makes me wonder is the paps talking about "Queen for mayor" when they posted the pics of the party Oliver, Thea and LL are going to be at in this ep.

Comicfan's spec sounds reasonable. Join me or I don't just kill you, but your father, and out you as the BC, thereby jeopardizing your team.  

 

But yeah, I don't think she'd have to think hard or be torn at all by Oliver wanting her to work for/with him, so I am 99.9% sure it's Ruve and she's the mayor.

[ComicFan777]

I imagined she could be torn because she would have to decide where she can do more good. And she and Oliver would have to talk about it if he is making the offer. But I also just read the GATV advanced review so my view on it is partial.

 

 

I can't imagine Oliver giving a job offer that would make Laurel choose between civilian life vs superhero life.  He has been fighting to do both since forever...just can't imagine him putting someone else in a position that they would have to pick one.

[nksarmi]

Well honestly, unless you are blindly in love with KC or Laurel - you have to admit that the way they have developed her over the years makes her a bad "fit" for the show at this point.  Ironically, by preparing for her death - they have written her better than they ever have.  But if you look at who they have more stories to tell with - clearly they feel they have more room to work with Quentin than Laurel.  I'm surprised they are doing this, but not because it doesn't make sense - just because comics.