Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Belinea]

If the proposal doesn't happen in 4x01, shouldn't it then happen at some point during the season? I just don't believe that they'd tease that and then backtrack on an actual proposal. 

 

As for DD, I will see how the magic/mystery stuff plays out. I didn't really like the Mirakuru stuff and the LP stuff because I liked the fact that the show was more realistic. Furthermore they never seem to have a grasp on the powers. Mirakuru could do this and then that. LP is just a big hot tub of magic. So I will wait and see what DD will bring to the table.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Belinea

[Kymmi]

I'm back!  And after all the talk that spoilers might be contributing to my unhappiness with Arrow, guess who's watched both of the trailers?  ;-)  I really loved them (of course) and have some of that same nervous excitement that I did before 3x01 - which should bring me pause.  I saw the ring - but was there a spoiler that there's an actual proposal?  It would surprise me not at all to have Oliver keep the ring and proposal to himself after he has to go back to his nighttime activities.

 

I am really, really excited about DD.  Getting NM to play him was such a gift.  Can't wait to get the show on the road!

[BkWurm1]

I'm back!  And after all the talk that spoilers might be contributing to my unhappiness with Arrow, guess who's watched both of the trailers?  ;-)  I really loved them (of course) and have some of that same nervous excitement that I did before 3x01 - which should bring me pause.  I saw the ring - but was there a spoiler that there's an actual proposal?  It would surprise me not at all to have Oliver keep the ring and proposal to himself after he has to go back to his nighttime activities.

 

I am really, really excited about DD.  Getting NM to play him was such a gift.  Can't wait to get the show on the road!

It's sooooo hard to stay away from the spoilers when that's all we have. I'm trying to wean myself from the spoilers so there are still good surprises but so far all I've managed to do is acknowledge that I'm going to have to eventually stop, lol.

Once the episodes show up I can distract myself there, but last season I just immersed myself in the spoilers as a way to prepare for the worst. It's a hard habit to break. If good things start happening, maybe I will be able to stop but right now I don't know how!

[kismet]

I don't want dwell on the proposal, because its probably the least spoilery of the teaser & as most people predicted it will probably not happen in 401. By TV trope standards it will be pushed. I'm OK with that. I think it might still happen because the show might be bold, but if oq is still able to get a proposal off, I imagine FS might delay saying yes. I prefer to be risky & bold when it comes to O/FF predictions so I have to stand behind a proposal sooner rather than later.

However, the reason & rationale behind why I think it would be good for the show to have a proposal before the spring finale is multifaceted. One it would bold & completely change up the expected rhythms of a TV show. It would be positive gotcha. But most importantly it would show the growth of OQ character. It gets tiring to have to wait until May for him to learn or put into motion the lessons he has learned. Also I believe it ups the ante for o/f to be engaged if they are bringing in fs father as a baddie in 4b.

They can be engaged for awhile. Personally, I think people who theorized a 100 episode wedding are correct. Unless they throw a quicky wedding out there for plot reasons, I totally see them waiting until ep100.

For the above reasons is why I foresee a winter finale successful proposal, or at the most a February vday proposal. I really hope they don't wait until may. As a seasoned TV viewer I can see how waiting until May is probable. But they have always been but bold with o/f, so I hope they do mix it up with the timing.

[TwistedandBored]

The more I think about it, the more I find it to be really really smart storytelling.

Last season they royally fucked up because they showed the audience what Oliver wanted -- to date Felicity, but then the narrative took it away from him, AND from us. And then gave us exhausting depressing instead.

The failed proposal shows the audience what Oliver wants, and sure, again they take it away from him -- but not from the audience this time around. Because now we hopefully get to watch Oliver and Felicity navigate a relationship in their *actual natural environment*. So. Much. Potential. for character growth.

 

I like how you explain things. I hope they decide to show us Felicity and Oliver dealing with personal things as a couple as well as professional things. 

[wonderwall]

I agree w/ Kismet. I think it'll be a winter finale proposal not a finale one.... Finale is too predictable. Maybe in the finale something will happen to either Oliver or Felicity. I'm thinking a cliffhanger, is Felicity dead or not? Or something IDK. 

[apinknightmare]

If he proposes in the winter finale, then I'm guessing we're in for a breakup - Felicity would probably say no (I'd guess it would be because of daddy issues, IDK).

[Morrigan2575]

I was thinking a mini breakup in 13/14 with a reunion in 19/20 and actual proposal in 23. Pretty much the same as the last 2 seasons

[Primal Slayer]

I hope they show us how Magneto/Black Canary/Speedy operate without having a Felicity to help guide them where to go and whats happening bts. Each of them bring in different dynamics that would be interesting to work with. Laurel is able to work the police angle for information, Thea with the party crowd, and Digg with the military/argus angle.

[wonderwall]

I was thinking a mini breakup in 13/14 with a reunion in 19/20 and actual proposal in 23. Pretty much the same as the last 2 seasons

 

I thought MG/WM confirmed they weren't going to break up this season? Then again sometimes they lie :p

I hope they show us how Magneto/Black Canary/Speedy operate without having a Felicity to help guide them where to go and whats happening bts. Each of them bring in different dynamics that would be interesting to work with. Laurel is able to work the police angle for information, Thea with the party crowd, and Digg with the military/argus angle.

 

I personally don't want to see them being all too successful. With small shot baddies, sure. But if they can handle themselves w/o Oliver or Felicity then what's the point of them ever coming back? I want to see them be successful, but I want to see them struggle at the same time. Like they're barely successful. Does that make sense? 

[lexicon]

I thought MG/WM confirmed they weren't going to break up this season? Then again sometimes they lie :p

 

As far as I recall it wasn't so much that they wouldn't break up this season but that they were in no hurry to do so. So a break up this season could still happen but don't expect it right away.

[Primal Slayer]

I want them to be successful before The Ghosts start showing up but it seems like The Ghosts moved in shortly after Olicity left town and that the team has been hanging on by a thread. I just don't want them to be totally useless to the city without The Arrow. 

[jay741982]

I agree w/ Kismet. I think it'll be a winter finale proposal not a finale one.... Finale is too predictable. Maybe in the finale something will happen to either Oliver or Felicity. I'm thinking a cliffhanger, is Felicity dead or not? Or something IDK.

Ill go one better He will propose Winter finale then all Hell breaks loose and Felicity dissapers end winter finale

[Guest]

I don't mind Diggle's team managing to help the city without Oliver (and Felicity) but I still want them to acknowledge that they really need the Arrow and not just this one time. That they've been getting by but Oliver is really the key one in all of this. I'm sorry but this is his show and his story and they're really making out as if he's not that important and they don't really need him. It's wrong.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

Even if they were doing great during the hiatus, the whole point of Laurel and Thea cockblocking Oliver's plans seems to be they aren't doing so great [anymore?] when the season starts. So I don't think we're actually gonna see them doing great. If it happened, it's all in offscreenville.

Edited September 14, 2015 by dtissagirl

[EmeraldArcher]

I hope they show us how Magneto/Black Canary/Speedy operate without having a Felicity to help guide them where to go and whats happening bts. Each of them bring in different dynamics that would be interesting to work with. Laurel is able to work the police angle for information, Thea with the party crowd, and Digg with the military/argus angle.

My impression is that the S4 trailer showed some footage of them in the field prior to Oliver and Felicity's return. The trio's ability to leverage those resources wouldn't be nearly as robust as Felicity's computational methods for several reasons, but primarily because she deals with data and they'd have to rely on the very unreliable human element. Also, they would be limited to gathering incomplete intel via the methods you're interested in seeing, whereas Felicity staffing the comms in the lair while the masks are in the field provided real-time mission oversight that was immediately reactive to rapidly changing variables. Even with three of them operating as a unit in the field, they'd be unable to perform effective triangulation for targeting the bad guys in such a complex urban environment.

So, I agree with @wonderwall in that they're likely to have success against lesser criminals in small numbers, but they don't stand a chance against a well-coordinated group without Oliver and Felicity.

[statsgirl]

If he proposes in the winter finale, then I'm guessing we're in for a breakup - Felicity would probably say no (I'd guess it would be because of daddy issues, IDK).

Maybe she'll say "Not now.  Let's talk about it when all this HIVE stuff and my daddy issues are done."  And then she disappears.

 

Actually breaking off their relationship would be too much.

 

I personally don't want to see them being all too successful. With small shot baddies, sure. But if they can handle themselves w/o Oliver or Felicity then what's the point of them ever coming back? I want to see them be successful, but I want to see them struggle at the same time. Like they're barely successful. Does that make sense? 

This.  The show is called "Arrow" and if Diggle/BC/Speedy can handle things by themselves, what's the point?

 

Even Oliver and Diggle had problems when they were working together and BC + Speedy doesn't equal the Arrow.

 

 If it happened, it's all in offscreenville.

 

Like the flirty summer of 2.5 and the Great Road Trip of 3.5.

Edited September 14, 2015 by statsgirl

[Coop33]

If it happened, it's all in offscreenville.

So much great stuff happens in offscreenville that that's what they should have renamed Starling City.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Coop33

[dtissagirl]

Yup. And while I'm forever bitter they skipped the Summer of flirty flirt, this time around, I'm good with not seeing what happened since May. Neither Oliver and Felicity traveling the world/settling down in boring suburban life, nor Team Arrowless being great without Oliver make for good Arrow stories.

I mean, I can read the O/F fic just fine. And the last time Team Arrowless was around I actively stopped watching the show, so. Yuck.

[jay741982]

My impression is that the S4 trailer showed some footage of them in the field prior to Oliver and Felicity's return. The trio's ability to leverage those resources wouldn't be nearly as robust as Felicity's computational methods for several reasons, but primarily because she deals with data and they'd have to rely on the very unreliable human element. Also, they would be limited to gathering incomplete intel via the methods you're interested in seeing, whereas Felicity staffing the comms in the lair while the masks are in the field provided real-time mission oversight that was immediately reactive to rapidly changing variables. Even with three of them operating as a unit in the field, they'd be unable to perform effective triangulation for targeting the bad guys in such a complex urban environment.

So, I agree with @wonderwall in that they're likely to have success against lesser criminals in small numbers, but they don't stand a chance against a well-coordinated group without Oliver and Felicity.

Yep Team Arrow Needs it's King and Queen

[BkWurm1]

Ill go one better He will propose Winter finale then all Hell breaks loose and Felicity dissapers end winter finale

We had the winter of very little Oliver.  I don't want to go a long stretch with no Felicity.  An episode tops. 

[tarotx]

I just want Felicity to say she's scared and isn't sure and then her and Oliver will be on egg shells for the last bit of the winter finale and the first episode back and then the second half Oliver puts the work in to prove he's ready. And then Felicity start putting hints down that she's ready but Oliver doesn't know if it's just wistful thanking and then either Oliver gets the nerve to purpose again or Felicity Purposes to Oliver. 

[AyChihuahua]

We had the winter of very little Oliver.  I don't want to go a long stretch with no Felicity.  An episode tops.

Or separated for multiple episodes while they show her in captivity. Too depressing.

[jay741982]

We had the winter of very little Oliver.  I don't want to go a long stretch with no Felicity.  An episode tops.

Oh I'm right there with you I need The Queen on my screen basically every episode as well. In my Scenario she disappears from Team Arrow cause she's been kidnapped by DD. We see her on screen but Oliver is Separated from his Queen and we get losing his shit angry ready to kill DD worrying and Hoping his lady isn't dead Oliver Queen.

Or separated for multiple episodes while they show her in captivity. Too depressing.

I don't want this either but I won't be Surprised if they do it maybe not having her be starved and tortured cause that's DARK but as a way to give Olicity Obstacles

[dtissagirl]

Didn't Guggie say Felicity won't get kidnapped for as long as possible? Nine episodes is not at all as long as possible.

[AyChihuahua]

Not in actual human terms, but I am pretty sure Guggie is Neptunian.

[BkWurm1]

Didn't Guggie say Felicity won't get kidnapped for as long as possible? Nine episodes is not at all as long as possible.

It begs the question what do they think is as long as possible.  Also, I think kidnapped for damsel in distress purposes is different than kidnapped by the big bad for long term reasons. 

 

DD is trying to find out who matters to the GA, I'm guessing he's going to be successful. 

[Kymmi]

Didn't Guggie say Felicity won't get kidnapped for as long as possible? Nine episodes is not at all as long as possible.

 

Thank God he did.  I really hated how they damseled Laurel (for what felt like) every 3rd episode.  You can have a love interest without them constantly being in danger.  Once a season I can handle, but no more than that.

[wonderwall]

I'm okay w/ damseling as long as BOTH Oliver and Felicity get damseled equally :p

[kismet]

Ill go one better He will propose Winter finale then all Hell breaks loose and Felicity dissapers end winter finale

I like this idea. Let's be honest, I don't want O/F separated for too long, but I think the amount of crazy drama that could ensue for 2-3 episodes might be worth it. On top of that, reunion sex ;)

 

Question to the legally minded & trained members - is there a way of coercing someone & keeping them against their will that does not fall under the purview of kidnapping? Because I could see FS going on a business trip and not returning because DD or proxy convince her to come with them by threatening the safety of her loved ones. It technically is not a kidnapping because FS went willingly, so MG can wiggle out of it. But for all intense purposes it is a kidnapping for plot purposes. Either way, OQ loses his mind because FS disappears.

[BkWurm1]

MG only said they didn't want to resort to kidnapping until they had to, so it always sounded to me that they had it planned out for Plot with a capital P reasons but were trying to skip plot with a lowercase p, aka the episodes leading up to when they needed to have her kidnapped. 

[AyChihuahua]

Question to the legally minded & trained members - is there a way of coercing someone & keeping them against their will that does not fall under the purview of kidnapping? Because I could see FS going on a business trip and not returning because DD or proxy convince her to come with them by threatening the safety of her loved ones. It technically is not a kidnapping because FS went willingly, so MG can wiggle out of it. But for all intense purposes it is a kidnapping for plot purposes. Either way, OQ loses his mind because FS disappears.

Nope, still kidnapping, at least in most, but probably all, states. But Guggie's a crap lawyer, so he might not know that.

Edited September 14, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[BkWurm1]

Question to the legally minded & trained members - is there a way of coercing someone & keeping them against their will that does not fall under the purview of kidnapping?

 

At the very least it would be extortion.  (the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats)

[AyChihuahua]

At the very least it would be extortion.  (the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats)

Once it's a person it's a whole new ballgame.

[jay741982]

MG only said they didn't want to resort to kidnapping until they had to, so it always sounded to me that they had it planned out for Plot with a capital P reasons but were trying to skip plot with a lowercase p, aka the episodes leading up to when they needed to have her kidnapped.

I don't get why Felicity NEEDS to be kidnapped and I can see her being forced to go with DD or Proxy by DD Threatening to kill Donna and Oliver

[quarks]

Thank God he did.  I really hated how they damseled Laurel (for what felt like) every 3rd episode.  You can have a love interest without them constantly being in danger.  Once a season I can handle, but no more than that.

 

This, although I will say that I liked that, after damseling Felicity in "State vs. Queen," (although at least, unlike as so often with Laurel, Felicity was captured while she was investigating, and Felicity apologized to Oliver for getting herself in trouble - a touch of victim blaming there, but also an acknowledgement that she'd screwed up), Arrow then flipped this around by using a kidnapped Felicity to bring down Slade and had Felicity help rescue herself in "Secret Origins." I also liked that Flash listened to at least some of the criticism about the ongoing Laurel kidnapping/rescues and had Iris rescue herself before Flash showed up in one episode, giving me hope that the showrunners have listened to at least some of the criticism. 

 

With that said, if Arrow manages to get through season four without kidnapping Laurel, Thea or Felicity (or all three) at least once, it will be the hands down biggest shock the show has delivered so far.

[tarotx]

Well Oliver is the one who is Kidnapped before his wedding in the comics. I can foresee something like that happening.  Maybe Oliver is distracted. So after he's rescued Felicity worries that Oliver will go all S3E1 on their relationship but this time Oliver will come out of it knowing life is too short to waste time on not allowing love. 

[Guest]

You know, they could have Felicity taken the episode before hiatus and then found in the next episode. It means that we wouldn't see them apart for more than an episode but the timing in show canon would actually be a few weeks. Not saying I want that to happen but there are ways around these things.

 

I don't really want Felicity to be a damsel again but I wouldn't mind seeing Oliver go out of his mind trying to find her. Meanwhile, all that time Felicity is saving herself. That would be pretty great - which means it probably won't happen. Haha.

[kismet]

What I like about when they kidnap or out FS in bodily harm, they never damsel her. She is always on a mission or is able to in someway combat her attackers. She is never just a damsel waiting for rescue, unlike LL who the majority of the time was just taken & waited around for someone to rescue her.

Which is why I'm okay with potential plans to kidnap her because they never damsel her. The closest time she was outright damseled was by Slade & that was part of the plan.

Considering her brains, her role as ceo & her role as GA love partner she is increasing the reasons people would want to take her. Nevermind, she might have an evil father to boot. She is at far higher risk for being kidnapped. At this point she needs a bodyguard more so than OQ, which is why I wonder if they brought on Mr terrific because he can protect her and be nerdy. I predict they will accelerate his powers to provide her with a bodyguard that is not just a bodyguard. I would have thought Diggle might be her bodyguard but with the campaign i think he'll be needed with OQ.

[Chaser]

Per, KC's interview. Laurel is working with Merlyn?

[Primal Slayer]

What interview? I don't remember her saying anything like that.

[Starfish35]

It was just posted in the News and Media thread.

[apinknightmare]

Per, KC's interview. Laurel is working with Merlyn?

 

Tough to say exactly what it means since she wasn't directly quoted. 

[Primal Slayer]

Oh ok. Just read it. I guess she is talking about Saras resurrection but we don't know who is responsible for her coming back yet which is interesting.  

[apinknightmare]

Oh ok. Just read it. I guess she is talking about Saras resurrection but we don't know who is responsible for her coming back yet which is interesting.  

 

It's been pretty strongly implied that it's Laurel.

[Primal Slayer]

I just can't see what would make her suddenly decide to bring back her sister. Not to mention that I don't want them to use Laurel to bring Sara back only to do the whole "I was at peace, why am I back" and give Laurel another mistake. 

[apinknightmare]

I mean, there's no reason for anyone to bring Sara back at all, but it seems as if Laurel (from what the EPs have said about her making decisions about Sara that she's going to have to live with) is the one who does it. For whatever reason.

[Primal Slayer]

Quentin should be more desperate about bringing his daughter back then Laurel is imo. He hasn't really come to terms with it and I could totally see DD making a deal with him to bring back Sara.

[calliope1975]

I can't think of any good reason, in show, to bring Sara back. I'm guessing it'll be grief or whatnot. It would make more sense, to me, to have Rip Hunter bring her back because he knows of some greater good/better future/whatever. I'm interested, though, in what doofy reason the show will think up.

[apinknightmare]

I guess maybe Quentin could've made a deal with DD to bring Sara back, but it goes wrong and they have to go to Malcolm for some reason. But IDK how that would work. 

 

Nothing so far indicates that Quentin is involved in it at all, and they've all but flat-out said it's Laurel. I suppose the show could throw us a curveball with that, though. Quentin, at least, doesn't seem to be present when she comes out of the NP Lazarus Pit. Laurel does, so...