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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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MsSchadenfreude

MsSchadenfreude

I couldn't take it anymore.  All summer I've been avoiding spoilers and any discussions about Season 4 so I could be surprised when the new season started. But alas, I caved and watched the trailer and new promo.  Please let this season be as good as I think it could be.  Love all the Oliver/Felicity goodness. Oliver cooks. Felicity doesn't.  So adorable. Damian Darhk is the kind of villain we should have had last year.  Do not like the new costumes, but I guess I'll get used to them.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I'm glad it's both Thea and Laurel that go to get Oliver, not just Laurel.

Diggle's helmet is even worse from behind - I wouldn't have thought that possible.

So I guess we're going all out with the magic now. *sigh* I knew it was coming, but still. Grumpy.

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EmeraldArcher

EmeraldArcher

The identity of FS's father I think is going to be used a season long treasure hunt. MamaSmoak will be back to drop some hints while she helps FS do something (my guess is move to her place with OQ). They are going to drop hints here and there to build up anticipation, with a big reveal in the later part of s4. Its been awhile since they have a had a treasure hunt without defaulting to a too soon reveal or gotcha moment. They can get a lot of mileage out of who's your Daddy part 2. I believe they will use the FS fans buzz generating obsession to their advantage and let the slow burn of who it could be linger to allow the fans to work their social media magic & publicize the show for free.

 

Something has been teasing around in my brain--I've wondered if DD actually is Felicity's dad, but her biological dad, not the one she remembers. I'm certainly not on board with the people who are hoping that DD is her dad, and I never believed someone like him would give Donna a second thought after completely meaningless and one-off sex with an attractive and willing partner. But, what if Felicity were the result of that tryst, and Donna convinced some other guy that he was the father? The duped "dad" might then leave after learning the truth, breaking little Felicity's heart without her ever knowing the truth.

 

Donna's description of Felicity's dad as really smart could still hold, even if she was describing DD while Felicity thought she was talking about the dad she remembers--or it could be true of both men. Everything we've seen of Donna could still paint her as continuing the lie out of not wanting to have Felicity's "dad" (either one of them) figuratively leave Felicity again and/or because Donna, ever insecure about Felicity's love for her, doesn't want her desperate lie to cause Felicity to hate her.

 

So, Felicity could encounter DD face to face and still not recognize him as her dad, even though that could be a gotcha moment later in the season. The wild card is what will DD do once he finds out, now that we know from this new teaser that he will probably be targeting Felicity because of her relationship with Oliver? Will DD be as affected by S4's family theme as everyone else?

 

(Disclaimer: I don't want DD to be her dad, but I'm afraid that they might go there, and this is the only way it makes sense to me.)

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jay741982

jay741982

Yeah, so we have a villain where arrows are useless in defeating him. Um. What? I like that I truly have no idea how they're going to take him down.

I do too.

After seeing that trailer and knowing That DD is truly Evil I have no doubt this is the season where Felicity is targeted cause of being The one Oliver loves. I can see DD putting her in the hospital= possible breakup for Olicity to "protect" her

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

Now I need the Mythbusters episode about magically stopping an arrow in midair :)

 

 

Is the dragon tattoo gone?

I think it's still there.

 

not sure how I feel about the magic.. although it may explain Lance hitting Diggle if DD can control stuff.

 

Somebody needs to teach Laurel and Thea timing!! soufflés are a extremely delicate dessert, they rise for 15 minutes and can crash and fall in less than one- you gotta eat them quick!...The pastry chef in me is not happy! those better end up being something else or i'll be pissed.

 

 

 

As for Diggle helmet.. I think this calls for a few gif's.. a Mcgonagall and the Dowager gifs.. that's how bad it is. It may even be worse than Sara's dying (although nothing will be worse than those poor soufflés falling).

 

tumblr_mwja437H0k1s7cbuho1_500.gif

 

tumblr_lxvdhaSMCO1qfthnx.gif

 

tumblr_ma2oldYeuV1rvo8ws.gif

 

giphy.gif

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

For whatever reason, I feel like the thing hanging over the season, making things feel tense even when they're happy, is more likely to be DD controlling someone the way MM controlled Thea or a shape-shifting/glamour thing than a flash-forward. But I seem to be in the minority on that, because Tumblr is full-steam ahead, treating the flash-forward like it's a given.

 

As for the promo...so precious. SOUFFLES??? Just go on without me. I hope the tone is actually closer to the way the season feels--unlike last year where we got fun for 1/2 of the first episode and then it was almost all doom and gloom.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

For whatever reason, I feel like the thing hanging over the season, making things feel tense even when they're happy, is more likely to be DD controlling someone the way MM controlled Thea or a shape-shifting/glamour thing than a flash-forward. But I seem to be in the minority on that, because Tumblr is full-steam ahead, treating the flash-forward like it's a given.

I'm with you - I don't think it's a fast-forward. I think it's probably some foreboding thing like, we'll see DD mind control someone insignificant just so that we know it can be done, and we'll go into the season knowing that it's a thing that can happen, and we'll wonder when it'll come into play or if someone is acting the way they are because he's controlling them or something. I don't really see the point of a fast-forward. It seems like they probably couldn't do a real-time FF - if Ray still needs to be embiggened, are they gonna leave him tiny for that long? A FF to a future event does seem like a cliffhanger to me, and...well, really not all that interesting. So here's hoping it's not that.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

That's one thing about the flash-forward that doesn't appeal to me. Yeah, a big anvil waiting to drop would probably add the sense of "jeopardy" to everything all season, but I think it could also cut any positive energy you feel, and cut into the drama of the season. Because you're really just biding time until this thing happens. It reminds me of why I can never care too much about the flashbacks. There aren't any stakes in the drama if I know where we're ultimately headed. Sure, some things along the way can be interesting or entertaining, but I know that eventually, Oliver comes home with his mission. I care about that part, not as much about the journey that got him there.

 

Anyway, so yeah, I think if we knew that there was a chance that any member of Team Arrow could actually be under DD's spell at any time (or actually be DD, I guess although...yikes, so cheesy), that would create more drama and stress than just knowing there's some awful thing coming our way.

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MuuMuuChainsmoker

MuuMuuChainsmoker

As for Diggle helmet.. I think this calls for a few gif's.. a Mcgonagall and the Dowager gifs.. that's how bad it is. It may even be worse than Sara's dying (although nothing will be worse than those poor soufflés falling).

 

 

I co-sign.   The whole show could use more disapproving Maggie Smith.   Hell, *any* show could use more disapproving Maggie Smith.

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Chaser

Chaser

I think flash forward would feel too much like season 1. Shock value would be mean that they can't stop whatever horrible thing happens. That would be the cliffhanger. Similar to Oliver being unable to stop the earthquake machine.

It doesn't appeal to me.

Felicity was extra sparky in that new trailer. All darkness and here is a cupcake shooting a machine gun. I approve. I approve of the Olicity too.

Not sure how I feel about DD having powers. I'm not sold on the whole magic thing. It has to be done well or it's just cheap CGI and bad gimmicks.

Oh Diggle. Diggle doesn't even have sideburns to protect. It's so sad. But I did love the bromance. Makes me happy.

Thea looks amused at Oliver's soufflés. I don't know what the expression is on Laurels face.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

Something has been teasing around in my brain--I've wondered if DD actually is Felicity's dad, but her biological dad, not the one she remembers. I'm certainly not on board with the people who are hoping that DD is her dad, and I never believed someone like him would give Donna a second thought after completely meaningless and one-off sex with an attractive and willing partner. But, what if Felicity were the result of that tryst, and Donna convinced some other guy that he was the father? The duped "dad" might then leave after learning the truth, breaking little Felicity's heart without her ever knowing the truth.

 

Donna's description of Felicity's dad as really smart could still hold, even if she was describing DD while Felicity thought she was talking about the dad she remembers--or it could be true of both men. Everything we've seen of Donna could still paint her as continuing the lie out of not wanting to have Felicity's "dad" (either one of them) figuratively leave Felicity again and/or because Donna, ever insecure about Felicity's love for her, doesn't want her desperate lie to cause Felicity to hate her.

 

So, Felicity could encounter DD face to face and still not recognize him as her dad, even though that could be a gotcha moment later in the season. The wild card is what will DD do once he finds out, now that we know from this new teaser that he will probably be targeting Felicity because of her relationship with Oliver? Will DD be as affected by S4's family theme as everyone else?

 

(Disclaimer: I don't want DD to be her dad, but I'm afraid that they might go there, and this is the only way it makes sense to me.)

Good Theory. It's plausible. I just think the mistaken identity father & evil bio dad are a little overdone. It also seems very reminiscent of Thea/MM. Also I feel like they already did a homage to a "luke I am your father" arc with TQ & MM. Plus the way Papa Smoak was describe in s3b by D&FS it seemed that they knew hew did shady or questionable things. So even if there was a duped Dad, he was not that noble.

 

DD may turn out to be FS's father (I hope not). But I just think the way WM talked about trying to incorporate him into the story, to me indicates that DD is not PapaSmoak. He may be connected to DD/HIVE, but not him. For a better story, I think they should avoid having FS's father be pure evil or the major season villain. I enjoy having her be part of the mythology of the show. I don't think the writers need to overcompensate by biologically connecting her to the main villain. I just think it would feel too forced. If they were thinking big picture, not having him be DD allows for more story options & also allows for the story to continue into future seasons.

 

I hope WM will be a good influence on the show, because I think she thinks beyond just this season or that amazing gotcha moment. Too much of s3 was in the moment gotchas & twists, with no back up plan for the repercussions from them. It's great to burn everything down or completely flip the story on its head. But that plan can run into significant problems when you realize that you still have x amount of episodes to write and more seasons to fill.

Edited by kismet
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Thanks apinknightmare.

 

Between Oliver's new suit and Diggle's new weapon, I wonder if they'll have Cisco come and visit or if he'll just be a magician from afar.

 

ETA:  DD saying he wants to know where this green arrow lives and who he loves...... targeting his people already?  That's so evul.

Edited by statsgirl
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EmeraldArcher

EmeraldArcher

I'm thinking the souffles were actually for him and Felicity and their dessert plans were interrupted ;)

The positioning of the desserts on the tray in front of Oliver immediately evoked _Calendar Girls_ for me! That would make for an interesting photo to display in Thea's loft with the others! ;-)

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wonderwall

wonderwall

So some people with hawk-like eyes caught this and made a theory re:timeline (X)--

 

Same earrings:

tumblr_inline_nufwfqW2Rc1qb0zgx_540.png

 

So Oliver walks into the kitchen:

tumblr_inline_nufxuzJUqW1qj2gfg_540.png

 

Sees Felicity trying to cook:

tumblr_inline_nufxriYiO51qj2gfg_540.png

 

Does some flirty flirt

tumblr_inline_nufxsh6nMK1qj2gfg_540.png

 

And then sexes her up (or Felicity jumps him)

tumblr_nufrbwabLk1ubszlfo2_500.gif

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kismet

kismet

Cisco needs to come to town so he can fix that ridiculous helmet of Diggle! He needs to Tim Gunn the Arrow team's costume choices. Although they might be beyond make it work time.

 

No wonder Dig doesn't need peripheral vision, he can't move his head anyway otherwise he give the shooters a whole back of the head target. Diggle's helmet reminds me of when they talk about helmets in sports & how when they started making them "safer" the players started to make more "unsafe" practices. The helmets lead to a false security of protection. Diggle I think was better with the ski mask at this point at least it didn't give a false sense of security or draw more attention.

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kismet

kismet

I wonder if the new "interesting" story device that SA is talking about is if they are going to use more dreams/hallucinations/visions to explain story points. I feel like they go hand in hand with magic & mysticism. It would be something different. And it could be something that can be used in multiple different ways. It could be passive or intentional. It could also play into mind control. Did I dream it or did it really happen?

 

More importantly, it doesn't undermine the flashbacks, by using another time oriented device. It also doesn't run the risk of falling prey to being perceived as cliffhangers or having to stay true to whatever they spoke of in the flashforward. An occasional flashforward can be good story telling device like when they start episodes out with a scene & then the rest of the episode is "x days ago". But as a permanent story telling device it usually doesn't work. Plus they do too many time whammy things on FLASH & likely LoT, let ARROW have its own thing.

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jay741982

jay741982

So some people with hawk-like eyes caught this and made a theory re:timeline (X)--

 

Same earrings:

tumblr_inline_nufwfqW2Rc1qb0zgx_540.png

 

So Oliver walks into the kitchen:

tumblr_inline_nufxuzJUqW1qj2gfg_540.png

 

Sees Felicity trying to cook:

tumblr_inline_nufxriYiO51qj2gfg_540.png

 

Does some flirty flirt

tumblr_inline_nufxsh6nMK1qj2gfg_540.png

 

And then sexes her up (or Felicity jumps him)

tumblr_nufrbwabLk1ubszlfo2_500.gif

I knew it!

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Genki

Genki

(edited)

The adorableness in the trailer is off the charts, and I so glad that Tumblr and eagled eyed people spot things that give me serious FEELINGS.

 

The cheek stroking and a timeline of sexing...plus domestic cuteness *sigh*

 

 

I wonder if the new "interesting" story device that SA is talking about is if they are going to use more dreams/hallucinations/visions to explain story points. I feel like they go hand in hand with magic & mysticism. It would be something different. And it could be something that can be used in multiple different ways. It could be passive or intentional. It could also play into mind control. Did I dream it or did it really happen?

 

More importantly, it doesn't undermine the flashbacks, by using another time oriented device. It also doesn't run the risk of falling prey to being perceived as cliffhangers or having to stay true to whatever they spoke of in the flashforward. An occasional flashforward can be good story telling device like when they start episodes out with a scene & then the rest of the episode is "x days ago". But as a permanent story telling device it usually doesn't work. Plus they do too many time whammy things on FLASH & likely LoT, let ARROW have its own thing.

 

 

This could work for me. I'm not sure I like the idea of a flash forward in episode 1, not because I dislike the device (usually I quite like it) or have little faith in the writers pulling it off (well S3 does give just cause for giving side-eye to the writers), but because I really don't want a repeat of 3.01 where the ending just put a negative cloud over the whole-damn-season.

 

I want to enjoy happy, sexy Olicity (and Dyla), and see cool stunts and hero-ing Oliver, I want to see the Bromance get back on track, Thea stepping up, and so much more and I don't really want spend the whole season waiting for the shoe to drop.

 

A DD controlled sleeper agent in the team may be interesting as well, but whatever they do, I hope that the writers don't write themselves into a corner, but somehow I fear they will.

Edited by Genki
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I agree with apinknightmare. I think what SA is talking about is DD using magic to stop his arrow in mid-flight in the first episode. After watching the new Arrow promo, I think that DD will quickly find out that the GA is Oliver and also will find out the identities of everyone on TA. But unlike Slade (who also knew these things), DD is so powerful that he can't be stopped with arrows, weapons or martial arts.  So we'll spend the entire season with everyone on TA and everyone they love in jeopardy, wondering when DD is going to drop the hammer. Since his arrows are useless, Oliver will have to use his brain to figure out a way to stop DD. I seem to recall one of the EPs saying something about how this season the Big Bad will require Oliver to use his brain instead of his usual physical skills to fight him.  (This isn't in my summary of S4 spoilers so it either came out before SDCC or I just missed collecting it!  Does anyone else have the source for this?)

tumblr_nufv2xoCdS1rge6ixo5_250.gif

 

Something has been teasing around in my brain--I've wondered if DD actually is Felicity's dad, but her biological dad, not the one she remembers. I'm certainly not on board with the people who are hoping that DD is her dad, and I never believed someone like him would give Donna a second thought after completely meaningless and one-off sex with an attractive and willing partner. But, what if Felicity were the result of that tryst, and Donna convinced some other guy that he was the father? The duped "dad" might then leave after learning the truth, breaking little Felicity's heart without her ever knowing the truth.

I think your theory is genius (IF they're really going with DD as Felicity's bio dad), although Donna just seems too honest to dupe her boyfriend in this way.  However, maybe DD made himself look like her boyfriend (shades of Uther in Excalibur).  So DD impersonates Donna's boyfriend, impregnates her and leaves, Donna's boyfriend stays with his family for a few years but then DD finds out about the child, and the boyfriend is forced to leave and work for DD. Alternatively, DD has a one-night stand with Donna but erases the memory from her mind.  She gets pregnant.  Both she and her boyfriend believe the child is his.  Then DD finds out about the child, etc.

 

Pros for this theory - it would explain why DD doesn't kill Felicity after finding out that she is who the GA loves. It would also be consistent with the S4 theme of family: biological versus created (bio dad versus 'real' dad).

 

Cons against this theory - if Felicity is DD's bio daughter, then he would've kept an eye on her all these years and would already know about Oliver and the GA.

 

After seeing that trailer and knowing That DD is truly Evil I have no doubt this is the season where Felicity is targeted cause of being The one Oliver loves. I can see DD putting her in the hospital= possible breakup for Olicity to "protect" her

SA has said that Oliver will deal with things differently this year. He'll rely on other people and ask other people for counsel and advice. He also said that when Oliver comes up against "dire circumstances" this year, he'll deal with them in a different way than before. That makes me think that, if Felicity is in danger, instead of reflexively pushing her away (like S3 Oliver would do), he'll instead talk to her and also go to Diggle for advice, and try to figure out a way to keep her and everyone else safe while still fighting DD - that this time, he'll fight for their relationship, instead of against their relationship.  At least that's my hope.  I mean, Oliver also loves Thea and Diggle.  Is he going to push them away too? Even if he isolated himself again, DD is evil enough to want to destroy all of TA.

 

Alternatively, instead of killing Felicity, DD could seek to corrupt her (maybe the Slade corrupting the ones Oliver loves plotline was postponed to this season and given to DD).

 

tumblr_nufwc5irg31rge6ixo3_500.gif

Edited by tv echo
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I've been wondering if DD can turn people into sleeper agents, and not just mindless minions. Like, they can go on with their lives and be themselves until DD employs the trigger, and then they become mindless minions.

 

Also, Paul B mentioned he's in the last scene of 401 at SDCC, didn't he? So even if it is a flash-forward [plis no], it has to do with Lance?

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lexicon

lexicon

I (vaguely) remember a spoiler that we'd seen more of Felicity's "family" this season so my question is are we too focused on her father and can we instead expect to meet some other family members first? Siblings maybe? 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Also, Paul B mentioned he's in the last scene of 401 at SDCC, didn't he? So even if it is a flash-forward [plis no], it has to do with Lance?

 

I can't recall what exactly he said, but he did imply that the "haunting" thing at the end of 4x01 had to do with Quentin. Since PB said something about Quentin doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, I wonder if he makes some kind of a deal with DD, or if DD does something for him in return for a favor, and he's not going to call the favor in yet. It's just going to be hanging there, making us all wonder when he's going to call it in or something.

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

So some people with hawk-like eyes caught this and made a theory re:timeline (X)--

 

Same earrings:

tumblr_inline_nufwfqW2Rc1qb0zgx_540.png

 

So Oliver walks into the kitchen:

tumblr_inline_nufxuzJUqW1qj2gfg_540.png

 

Sees Felicity trying to cook:

tumblr_inline_nufxriYiO51qj2gfg_540.png

 

Does some flirty flirt

tumblr_inline_nufxsh6nMK1qj2gfg_540.png

 

And then sexes her up (or Felicity jumps him)

tumblr_nufrbwabLk1ubszlfo2_500.gif

 

Hah! Middle of the day sexy times is even better than a morning after scenario. Man, the FBI should hire this fandom (or maybe any fandom) to hunt for clues. They see everything!

 

I want to enjoy happy, sexy Olicity (and Dyla), and see cool stunts and hero-ing Oliver, I want to see the Bromance get back on track, Thea stepping up, and so much more and I don't really want spend the whole season waiting for the shoe to drop.

 

 

This is me with the whole flash-forward thing. I don't want some doom and gloom scenario hanging over the entire season. It's just such a downer. Also, it would color the relatiionships, interactions, and I just don't want that. I think this is the writers responding to complaints that there was no tension last season, which is true. I'd also complained there was no sense of urgency, no ticking clock.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Since his arrows are useless, Oliver will have to use his brain to figure out a way to stop DD. I seem to recall one of the EPs saying something about how this season the Big Bad will require Oliver to use his brain instead of his usual physical skills to fight him. 

Oh God, they're doomed.  DOOMED!

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Yeah, but the first video didn't show the ramekins well, so everyone wrongly assumed cupcakes, and it spread before the full HD video... but by then it was too late. Fandom does viral faster than actual viruses.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Chaser

Chaser

They could have their cake and eat it too. If DD can do a mind whammy, he can make Felicity think he is her father in order to get close to her and the Team. Mama Smoak can reinforce the Con by backing him up.

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

I do too.

After seeing that trailer and knowing That DD is truly Evil I have no doubt this is the season where Felicity is targeted cause of being The one Oliver loves. I can see DD putting her in the hospital= possible breakup for Olicity to "protect" her

 

I hope we're done with Oliver pushing Felicity away to protect her, but I'm all for DD putting her in the hospital. Yes, it's tropey. No, I don't care. I want to see Oliver losing his shit because Felicity's injured. I demand it, actually. 

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