Spoiler Discussion Thread

[catahoulamama]

I think 3.23 will be the end of the absolute darkness in this show.  It is never going to be as light as Flash but it will start to lighten up in S4.  If not, how does Oliver become Green Arrow?  It may still have dark moments (It definitely will in the flashbacks.) but I think part of the end of the trilogy is adding more light/hope to the show. 

 

As far as the critics go, I think they tend to break down along comics & entertainment much like the fandom does.  The biggest complaints I have seen from comic sites are Olicity/Felicity related and people being unhappy with Ra's making an offer to Oliver that should be reserved for Batman.  Entertainment complaints seem to be in regards to speed of comic characters and lack of the trio. (I personally bought into the trio but I am aware that isn't why everyone watches.)  The only thing both sides seem to agree on is that the writing for plot not characters doesn't work.

 

I think the "kinda" cliffhanger for S3 is once you wrap up the existing storylines we're supposed to be left wondering "Where do they go from here?"

I do hope you're right about it being the end to the overwhelming darkness, because that just gets tired after too long.

 

Re: critics: There's also been criticism of the storytelling itself though and how it's done a disservice to what they're trying to achieve. They're so busy trying to surprise the viewers that it ends up leaving us with so many questions it takes us out of the story. I listen to a few Arrow podcasts each week and the Green Justice podcast this week really got into this.  They've always offered constructive criticism of the show, but on this week's podcast they got into this quite a bit.

 

The writing has wandered off into the weeds this year and as much as MG says this season's all about Oliver's struggle with identity, IMO, it's been more about identity in general. For a chunk of the season, Oliver's present day story was the "B" story due to the launch of BC and Ray/Atom, and he was even a secondary character in the entire flashback segment this year.  The flashbacks were centered on the Yamashiros more than Oliver. I'm not saying it should be all Oliver all the time, but Oliver/Arrow should be the "A" story on Arrow.  More than anything, this season just feels like they bit off more than they could chew (or had the airtime to cover coherently).

Edited May 11, 2015 by catahoulamama

[Morrigan2575]

If they ever have Laurel in a relationship with someone called Larry or Kurt, I'll take that as a sign that Lauriver is truly dead.

Larry and Kurt are essentially Laurel's father in the comics. In fact, when Quentin was arrested they used Quentin "Larry" Lance as his full name

Comics wise, the Dinah, Laurel is based on Dinah Laurel Lance was married to Oliver Queen (they divorced in 2011) before that she was married to some guy when she was 18-19 (they're divorced as well).

Edited May 11, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

SA did say that Connor "comes up" in Season 4, so maybe it won't be a big thing? Seems like MG probably won't be able to resist making drama out of it, but I really would appreciate it if the kid had a stable family and Oliver wrestles with it a bit and then decides it would be in the child's best interest to not involve himself in something that works already. 

[foreverevolving]

I'm trying to think of an example of the Surprise You Got A Kid trope done well. I really can't.

Ally Mcbeal? ER, with Dr. Archie Morris (though he had like a dozen of them cause he donated to a sperm bank). Will & Grace, Jack had a "surprise i'm your son" storyline at one of the later seasons.

I can't remember anymore off the top of my head

[Genki]

Basically I hope the kid storyline is like the one in Nikita, a bit of drama, and mostly off-screen.

 

I like there idea that Oliver & Thea have more family and them knowing about it and getting hope from it, but not keen on full-time kid on show.

 

I think if the Oliver/Diggle feud is going to be a thing next season, they can't have Oliver being the sole bank-roller of the team. But I think the lair being inside the company is not feasible unless they make it a basement  setup.

[Sunshine]

The company could be where Felicity tracks things while keeping the company operating and the others could actually operate out of the basement or somewhere closer to the glades.  The others could also zip line in and out.  Nobody would notice. ;) 

 

I read the New 52 after F&D were added.  Oliver was often running around in a business suit attending events.  He would change into his GA gear as necessary.  I could see a similar thing happening here.  For Oliver to become Green Arrow he is probably going to have to start making a difference as Oliver Queen.  At some point I would expect him to leverage his name in some social justice endeavors.    If Oliver becomes the face of the company somehow, it would give both Oliver and Thea a reason to be there.  Laurel Lance was originally going to work for some fancy, schmancy law firm in San Francisco IIRC.  She could leave criminal law to work for the company.  Or she could go into business for herself and the company could be her main client.  Diggle could become head of security.  This company could employ them all and hide their vigilante operations.  Everyone comes and goes and nobody is the wiser for it although if Quentin is still anti-vigilante he might question it.   I guess I don't think S4 is going to be them operating exclusively like they did in S1 & S2.

 

I have been known to be wrong on more than one occasion. LOL!

 

Also, assuming this is the company that becomes Queen, Inc., if Oliver appears to be doing well this could be why Baby Mama  and child put in an appearance.   Then again, maybe there is more story if Laurel trips over them in Central City.  SA did tease one time that he might not be the first one to discover the child's existence.  Laurel might know who the girl is and sees the child (if he/she looks like Oliver) and puts 2+2 together. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by Sunshine

[Sakura12]

I do hope you're right about it being the end to the overwhelming darkness, because that just gets tired after too long.

 

Re: critics: There's also been criticism of the storytelling itself though and how it's done a disservice to what they're trying to achieve. They're so busy trying to surprise the viewers that it ends up leaving us with so many questions it takes us out of the story. I listen to a few Arrow podcasts each week and the Green Justice podcast this week really got into this.  They've always offered constructive criticism of the show, but on this week's podcast they got into this quite a bit.

 

The writing has wandered off into the weeds this year and as much as MG says this season's all about Oliver's struggle with identity, IMO, it's been more about identity in general. For a chunk of the season, Oliver's present day story was the "B" story due to the launch of BC and Ray/Atom, and he was even a secondary character in the entire flashback segment this year.  The flashbacks were centered on the Yamashiros more than Oliver. I'm not saying it should be all Oliver all the time, but Oliver/Arrow should be the "A" story on Arrow.  More than anything, this season just feels like they bit off more than they could chew (or had the airtime to cover coherently).

 

This show is the one the suffering from an identity crisis, not the characters and it was "Am I Green Arrow or am I Batman?" 

Edited May 11, 2015 by Sakura12

[apinknightmare]

Also, assuming this is the company that becomes Queen, Inc., if Oliver appears to be doing well this could be why Baby Mama  and child put in an appearance.  

 

Since Ray signed the company over to Felicity and not Oliver, I'm wondering exactly how it's going to play out? I'm gonna need Felicity to retain ownership of it, regardless of whether she runs it or not. I really hope they don't just have her hand it over to Oliver since it was his family's company to begin with seeing as his dumbass decisions are what lost it in the first place. 

[FurryFury]

SA did say that Connor "comes up" in Season 4, so maybe it won't be a big thing? Seems like MG probably won't be able to resist making drama out of it, but I really would appreciate it if the kid had a stable family and Oliver wrestles with it a bit and then decides it would be in the child's best interest to not involve himself in something that works already. 

So, another Angel parallel, season 5 this time? This was my favorite season, so I guess it could work.

 

I don't think we can get even a 14 year old driving illegally next season. :)

 

Once Upon A Time just did it, and it's an 8 PM ABC family show, for god's sake (or maybe he's even 13, hard to keep track on that show).

That said, I do feel like aren't that invested into the kid storyline.

Edited May 11, 2015 by FurryFury

[nksarmi]

Once Upon A Time just did it, and it's an 8 PM ABC family show, for god's sake (or maybe he's even 13, hard to keep track on that show).

That said, I do feel like aren't that invested into the kid storyline.

 

No, I was responding to the poster who said kids are only acceptable when they are old enough to drive.  I keep reading about Oliver turning 30 this year and if that is the case, the only way he could have even a 13 or 14 year old would be retconning that mom back to a high school hook up. So, I think we are stuck with a kid who has to be 9 or 10 at most which I think most posters believe isn't much better than a 7 or 8 year old.

[Sunshine]

Since Ray signed the company over to Felicity and not Oliver, I'm wondering exactly how it's going to play out? I'm gonna need Felicity to retain ownership of it, regardless of whether she runs it or not. I really hope they don't just have her hand it over to Oliver since it was his family's company to begin with seeing as his dumbass decisions are what lost it in the first place. 

I am wondering how this is going to play out too. I don't want her to just hand it over either.   I was thinking maybe she would sell him part (half?) of it.  Walter and his bank were going to provide funding originally in 3.01.  By selling him half or some percentage this could make them true partners.  What I heard when I watched the 30 second clip from his NP party was that Oliver and Felicity were going to the next Chapter from early S2.   I kept reading he said their relationship was going to the next level.  While I don't doubt that their personal relationship will be advancing I do wonder if the 2.10 "You're not my employee, you're my partner" comes into play.  If it does, I am thinking he would be the face of the company and she might be more than happy to re-establish the Queen name in SC. 

[statsgirl]

The power disparity between Oliver and Felicity has been so great this season, I want her to keep the company herself. Maybe then they could finally be partners rather than Oliver making all the decisions and Felicity (and Diggle) having to react to what he has decided..

 

I think Felicity earned the company by not being the one with her head up her ass. Oliver stopped fighting for it in The Calm, he give up outside life in Sara,  He's done nothing to earn the company back while Felicity has been balancing two jobs and everything else he's thrown at her.  Let Oliver go figure out what he really wants and then work to get it.

[calliope1975]

I was one of those who was thinking Felicity would run the company with Oliver as the face, but I'm reconsidering. At this moment, I don't think having Oliver be the face of anything would be beneficial to a company. He was just the subject of a manhunt. 

 

Of course, this is the same city that probably would have elected Moira mayor after she was involved in a plot that resulted in the slaughter of half a neighborhood, so, yeah, Oliver can do whatever he wants. 

[Guest]

I can't see Felicity just handing Oliver back the company. She's not an idiot. I actually think this is probably one of the reasons why her dad comes back. He'll probably see her suddenly high profile and it will draw him into town. 

[kismet]

It wouldn't be about him having a kid. It would be if she found out he has known about the kid for years and chosen not to be part of his life. Felicity was abandoned by her own father. Sure, she would come to understand that Oliver was protecting the kid, or thought he was (though lbr, Oliver's general reluctance to inflict himself upon people he cares about is in there too) and she would probably learn that something similar was at play with her own father leaving her. If anything would trigger an emotional reaction in Felicity, it would be finding out that Oliver did a thing that she has indicted and resented her own father for. Psychologically speaking that is a great story for them to play. It also would call back to that one time Ra's was shippin' Olicity and told Felicity about how he himself had abandoned his first family. If DD is Felicity's father, Ra's surely knows it. 

 

When I look back at Oliver's face when Felicity talks about her father abandoning her, and his face when he saw Sandra in CC...

 

I understand your logic on this one... and see the psychological stockpile of stories they can tell. I hope that they don't go there. But because they seem to want to do the worst things ever to all of their characters I can see how they might want to go this angle. I hope that logic fails in this one and they choose another way.

 

I just don't want Oliver knowing about his kid and choosing to do nothing about him until s4. It just doesn't meld with who I think he is becoming, or who he was. I think they can mine the FS father abandonment without repeating the same beats with his son. I also think the major difference is that OQ never had a relationship with his son (most likely for his protection), so its different than abandoning him, whereas FS father willingly chose to leave her. It's different and I feel it will weaken the potential of both stories to combine them.

 

Honestly, I think having OQ not know about his kid and having him just find out will provide more dramatic character beats. OQ likes a certain level of control or tight planning in his life and this bombshell would completely change so much about his past & present. I think it would really rock him to his core. Whereas, if he knows about the kid and is protecting it - its just OQ being OQ and that's getting a little repetitive.

 

Sidenote - I hope we only see the kid for a few episodes and then it goes to live in CC or some other city where OQ will visit/call/hang with offscreen. I don't know if I really want to see a kid around Arrow week after week. Children can be a show's downfall if forced into the plot week after week for no real purpose, esp if they don't cast the right match.

[apinknightmare]

Warner Brothers must've gotten a handle on their Asia promo makers, damn it! Times are tough when even the people who usually spoil things for you won't spoil things for you!

[tv echo]

The EPs always hide some big surprise in the season finale, so I'm going with the theory that Malcolm is revealed to be Damien Dahrk.  Before you scoff, hear me out...

 

In 3x23, Oliver and Nyssa together manage to defeat Ra's.  Oliver doesn't want to be the new Ra's.  Nyssa doesn't want to be the new Ra's because she wants to live outside NP and be a real girl like her new BFF Laurel.  So Malcolm offers to become the new Ra's, pointing out the danger of allowing hundreds of trained assassins loose on the world unsupervised, and promising to change the LOA's murderous ways.  Then in the last minute of the finale, we learn that Malcolm is an alias for Damien Dahrk.

 

Next season, Malcolm/Damien will be a frenemy of Oliver and Thea because he has paternal feelings for them, but an enemy of Diggle and Laurel (because of Andy and Sara).  This will increase the strain between Oliver and Diggle, since Oliver inadvertently helped Malcolm double his power as head of both the LOA and HIVE, and because Oliver will still be reluctant to kill Malcolm because of Thea.  Felicity will be caught in the middle (again) trying to reconcile Oliver and Diggle, complicated by the fact that she finds out her own father is involved in HIVE.  Conflicts galore.

 

How could Malcolm be Damien?  After Damien was defeated by Ra's and left the LOA, he had cosmetic surgery to change his appearance and took on a new identity - in fact, several new identities over the years, as he built HIVE and extended his life using the stolen LP water.  At some point, he became 'Malcolm Merlyn' and joined the LOA.  As Malcolm, he moved to SC, built his company, married and had Tommy (and Thea) - not sure of exact order.

 

Evidence?  Malcolm miraculously survived being 'killed' by Oliver in S1.  He evaded capture by the LOA for two years, until - I suspect - he allowed himself to be captured.  He was able to sneak into the secret duel site and retrieve the sword.  He was able to sneak in and out of NP to meet Oliver.  He has sources of info within the LOA.  If Oliver hadn't attempted to rescue him, he probably had allies within the LOA ready to get him out.  JB has hinted that Malcolm will return as a cast member in S4.  The EPs have indicated that S4's Big Bad will appear in 3x23.  No new casting announcement has been made.

 

Why didn't Malcolm just challenge Ra's directly?  Maybe he wasn't sure he could beat Ra's, since he lost to him before.  Maybe he thought his real identity as Damien Dahrk would be revealed, and he wanted no connection made between Malcolm and HIVE.  So instead, he engineered a long con to manipulate Oliver and Nyssa into defeating Ra's together.  He knew Oliver would not want to become Ra's.  Even if Nyssa did, he knew that he could challenge and beat Nyssa in combat.  In any case, he was assured of becoming the new Ra's, while still keeping his real identity secret.

 

P.S.  This theory also allows for the possibility of Tommy returning alive in the future (resurrected with LP water, brainwashed with LOA methods, made a HIVE agent).

 

EDITED TO CLARIFY:  Felicity's father would be involved in HIVE, but would not be Malcolm/Damien.

Edited May 12, 2015 by tv echo

[Chris24601]

The only problem with the Malcolm = Damien Darhk theory is that we SAW Malcolm as an ordinary guy who went off to train with the League (he even met young Nyssa) whereas Damien is a contemporary of Ra's (so hundreds of years old).

 

Now, Malcolm as a loyal minion of Damien who has been working to gain control of the LoA and rule it as Damien's proxy could work, probably with only minimal tweaking to what you outlined, but Malcolm as Damien himself wouldn't.

[NumberCruncher]

Not saying that's what they'll do but if they were to go that route and make Malcolm Damien Dahrk then I don't want him to have anything to do with being Felicity's dad like the fans have been pushing. Malcolm turning out to be Thea's dad was bad enough and look at the train wreck that turned out to be. No thank you.

Edited May 12, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[apinknightmare]

Personally, I don't want Felicity's dad to be Damien Darhk regardless. We've already had to watch Thea grappling with an evil father, I don't want to have to watch Felicity do it. 

 

Felicity and Donna's talk at the hospital in 3x18 made it seem like there might've been good reason for her dad leaving. Donna didn't seem to be too bitter over it, while Felicity understandably is. I'd like to see Felicity grappling with the hurt of having her father leave her while weighing it against the reasons why it might've been necessary/for the best. If there's going to be Connor Hawke drama next year, I think it might be an interesting conflict for Felicity to have as the child of a father who wasn't involved for reasons while Oliver (IF Oliver) weighs the pros and cons of getting involved in his child's life given the life he leads. 

[blixie]

Yeah I think Malcolm being DD agent is better than a huge retcon of his onscreen narrative, though this would be consistent Ras not recognizing his rival was training under him at LoA. It just a little to convoluted for me, and I have had about all the convolutions with Malcolm I care to see. 

 

 

Personally, I don't want Felicity's dad to be Damien Darhk regardless.

 

Me either but I would like to see him being DD/HIVE's tech mastermind, her dad is still bad dude and she would have to reconcile that and possibly he would too? IDK after the casting for Ras I'm kind of worried for both DD and Father Smoak.

[tv echo]

To clarify, I was not suggesting that Felicity's father is Damien Dahrk, but just someone working at HIVE.

 

What got me started on the theory of Malcolm being Damien Dahrk was the character Methos in that old TV show Highlander - you know, a powerful immortal who lived for centuries and who hid in plain sight by assuming the identity of an ordinary human guy, Adam Pierson (a Watcher researcher).

Edited May 12, 2015 by tv echo

[nksarmi]

To clarify, I was not suggesting that Felicity's father is Damien Dahrk, but just someone working at HIVE.

 

What got me started on the theory of Malcolm being Damien Dahrk was the character Methos in that old TV show Highlander - you know, a powerful immortal who lived for centuries and who hid in plain sight by assuming the identity of an ordinary human guy, Adam Pierson (a Watcher researcher).

Stop it. Methos is one of my favorite characters ever.  They cannot retcon Malcolm into a Methos character - I will not accept it.  No.

 

They can use Methos as an inspiration to introduce Damien Darhk as a non-menacing, innocent looking character and have Malcolm working for him.  But that's as far as I can go. :)

[Chaser]

Stop it. Methos is one of my favorite characters ever.  They cannot retcon Malcolm into a Methos character - I will not accept it.  No.

 

They can use Methos as an inspiration to introduce Damien Darhk as a non-menacing, innocent looking character and have Malcolm working for him.  But that's as far as I can go. :)

There can be only one.

 

I couldn't resist :-)

[tarotx]

It's going to be so cheap to have this be Ra's and the little Teen Titan villain be a huge big bad. Even with Arrow being different than the comics I can't help but shake my head....

I'm still hoping that who we have delt with all season is Damien Darhk or Doctor Dark. Instead of Ra's. And the real Ra's is who we will deal with soon.

I just hope the casting people are better in the future....

Edited May 12, 2015 by tarotx

[Chaser]

It's going to be so cheap to have this be Ra's and the little Teen Titan villain be a huge big bad. Even with Arrow being different than the comics I can't help but shake my head....

I'm still hoping that who we have delt with all season is Damien Darhk or Doctor Dark. Instead of Ra's. And the real Ra's is who we will deal with soon.

I just hope the casting people are better in the future....

This is why as much as I want Sebastian Roche to be Felicity's father, he would kill it as a villain. On of MN's problems is you totally don't believe SA couldn't kick his ass. Roche physically wouldn't be able to either, but he can establish that don't mess with me atmosphere. Consider this monolouge from Now You See Me:

 

"Let me warn you. I want you to follow, because no matter what you think you might know, we will always be one step, three steps- seven steps ahead of you, and just when you think you're catching up, that's when we'll be right behind you. And at no time will you be anywhere other than exactly where I want you to be. So come close, get all over me because the closer you think you are, the less you'll actually see."

 

That's the kind of villainy I want to see. Ra's was so telegraphed, how they didn't see his moves coming I have no idea. The only surprise so far is that stupid wedding.

[statsgirl]

I don't want them to waste Sebastian Roche as a villain. (OUaT completely wasted him.)  I'm a fan from the old General Hospital and he can really make you fear him because he's so BSC, like John Barrowman at Malcolm's best.

 

Whoever Felicity's father is, while I don't want him to be EVUL, if they do make him a bad guy, I hope they do a better job of it than they did with Ra's or Ivo  Brick and the original Count were good though.

[Sunshine]

So, Ra's might be back next year?! I guess SC isn't far enough away that he can't be LP'd if Oliver takes him out.

 

Been waiting for days for a spoiler and what I get is confirmation that the cliffhanger is "How can the show go on" and that they have ideas for Ra's (Matt Nable's) possible return in S4.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Sunshine

[nksarmi]

In regards to Matt Noble and Ra's being back next season......

 

Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please no, not in flashbacks, not in hallucinations, not in nightmares, please no, please no, please no.

[tarotx]

Yes please no more Matt Noble as Ra's....

[apinknightmare]

So, if the ending of this season makes people wonder how the show goes on, everyone must go their separate ways, right? Well, maybe not all separate, but Diggle goes off and does whatever with Lyla, Oliver goes off with Felicity (what happens to PT? Do they stay in town and just not fight crime anymore?), Laurel maybe goes off with Nyssa to train some more? Maybe she keeps her job and Nyssa stays in Starling? Does Thea hang out for a while and do whatever? Are they all just abandoning the city or whatever? 

 

Can it be tomorrow so I know already? 

[calliope1975]

I suppose they didn't say the finale was a satisfying wrap up to the 3 seasons; I just assumed it would be. Silly me. 

 

I will only accept more Ra's if it's the real Ra's, not this lame-o imposter we've seen this season. No more of that guy, please and thank you.

[Starfish35]

Stop it. Methos is one of my favorite characters ever. They cannot retcon Malcolm into a Methos character - I will not accept it. No.

They can use Methos as an inspiration to introduce Damien Darhk as a non-menacing, innocent looking character and have Malcolm working for him. But that's as far as I can go. :)

Peter Wingfield for Damien Darhk!!! :)

I'd start the Twitter campaign. If, you know, I had a Twitter account. :)

[Carrie Ann]

They've talked about doing flashbacks for Sara and for Nyssa, so I'm sure that's how Matt Nable will return. He really doesn't bother me as Ra's--the writing for Ra's is what bugs me about Ra's--so I'm cool with that.

 

So I guess we're definitely not setting up for next season in terms of any kind of new mission, new tactics, new location situation. It's just going to be a giant question mark as to how the show will go on. I'm actually fine with that, and you know, if the show gets even worse next season, then it sounds like the S3 finale can act as my headcanon series finale.

[nksarmi]

So, if the ending of this season makes people wonder how the show goes on, everyone must go their separate ways, right? Well, maybe not all separate, but Diggle goes off and does whatever with Lyla, Oliver goes off with Felicity (what happens to PT? Do they stay in town and just not fight crime anymore?), Laurel maybe goes off with Nyssa to train some more? Maybe she keeps her job and Nyssa stays in Starling? Does Thea hang out for a while and do whatever? Are they all just abandoning the city or whatever? 

 

Can it be tomorrow so I know already? 

If I had to place some bets, I'd go with.....

 

Oliver quits the Arrow stuff and tells Felicity he loves her and wants a life as Oliver Queen...

Felicity becomes head of PT and she and Oliver decide to move in together...

Diggle tells Oliver to suck it and tells him he is no longer welcome in his home...

Assuming Nyssa survives (and she better!), she and Laurel become a crime-fighting duo to perhaps honor Black Canary's BoP comic book history...

Thea strikes out to figure out who she is without Oliver, Malcolm, or Roy at her side and perhaps joins Laurel/Nyssa...

 

So Arrow is gone, there is no basis of operations, and everyone is just kind of scattered and next season will be them all coming back together.  I still wonder what they are going to do in the 3.5 comics, but maybe they will mirror the separated concept and tell individual stories?

[blixie]

 

So, if the ending of this season makes people wonder how the show goes on, everyone must go their separate ways, right?

 

I've been pretty certain about this for awhile, though I think Dig will be helping Thea hero, with the bonus that it might piss Oliver off. Heh. Or she could be training with Nyssa/Laurel. I would think it's just Olicity who physically leave Starling City.

 

I did not see the bit about Ras being back next season, they really are dumb as a sack of hammers.

[AyChihuahua]

So like the end of Buffy S2, then?  Gee willikers, if they separate I'm just confounded about how they could POSSIBLY get back together next season?!?

[Sunshine]

They've talked about doing flashbacks for Sara and for Nyssa, so I'm sure that's how Matt Nable will return. He really doesn't bother me as Ra's--the writing for Ra's is what bugs me about Ra's--so I'm cool with that.

 

So I guess we're definitely not setting up for next season in terms of any kind of new mission, new tactics, new location situation. It's just going to be a giant question mark as to how the show will go on. I'm actually fine with that, and you know, if the show gets even worse next season, then it sounds like the S3 finale can act as my headcanon series finale.

I agree except if they do flashbacks for Sara and Nyssa I want them done on Legends and not on Arrow.

[statsgirl]

 

Ray's [brandon Routh] last scene, which is a very definitive sendoff was actually something we talked about way back at the beginning of the year, long before the spinoff was discussed.

I'm having a vision of  him flying off into the clouds. Stay Tuned For The Spin-off.

 

I wonder if we'll find out about Sara in this ep. MG said we would by the end of this Arrow season but yeah, like I trust him.

 

Peter Wingfield for Damien Darhk!!! :)

I'd start the Twitter campaign. If, you know, I had a Twitter account. :)

Brilliant idea.  I sent MG a tweet.

 

If anyone is wondering about the timing, MG tweeted that the Flash episode tonight takes place just before tomorrow's Arrow.

[catahoulamama]

Since they keep saying (MG and SA) that this feels like a series finale and they're going to leave the audience questioning how the show can go on, wonder if after this (I'll be polite and use MG's word) "twisty" season of storytelling they have any reason to be concerned that the audience may not have the confidence in them to put the show back together in S4? If the ending is as satisfying as they're claiming, and with the displeasure of fans and critics this season, it may be a perfect point for people to walk away from the show.  Then again, MG's take on things doesn't always jive with the audience's, so there's that. LOL

[calliope1975]

If anyone is wondering about the timing, MG tweeted that the Flash episode tonight takes place just before tomorrow's Arrow.

 

I was wondering, so thank you. I caught an ad for The Flash last night, and I'm still confused how Oliver is in Central City helping out Flash based on how we left off on Arrow last week. 

[apinknightmare]

I was wondering, so thank you. I caught an ad for The Flash last night, and I'm still confused how Oliver is in Central City helping out Flash based on how we left off on Arrow last week. 

 

Perhaps Ra's has some evildoing to attend to in Central City so they take a stop on the high-speed railway that runs between NP and SC? 

[calliope1975]

Perhaps Ra's has some evildoing to attend to in Central City so they take a stop on the high-speed railway that runs between NP and SC? 

 

I suppose Oliver could be all, "Oh Ra's - let me go destroy Star Labs so they don't make an antidote," and then wacky Reverse Flash hijinks ensue and Oliver's there to help out Barry.

 

Wait - I just changed my mind. I want Barry to zip into NP, whisk Oliver away (bridal carry), and make all these idiots realize how quickly this plot could have been resolved with his help. Thus, setting the stage for Barry's help in Arrow's finale.

Edited May 12, 2015 by calliope1975

[Chaser]

Does Oliver tell Barry to get to the gang in Nanda Parbat at the begining and he just doesn't take them back to CC with him or does he wait until the end of the episode?

Edited May 12, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[ostentatious]

Peter Wingfield is...an amazing idea. 

 

Now I won't be happy with anyone else.

 

Thanks a lot, nerds.

Edited May 12, 2015 by ostentatious

[apinknightmare]

Does Oliver tell Barry to get to the gang in Nanda Parbat at the begining and he just doesn't take them back to CC with him or does he wait until the end of the episode?

 

MG said tonight's Flash takes place right before Arrow, so it seems like he shows up to ask Barry for help but helps Barry with Reverse Flash first? Unless he asks Barry to go and get them in the middle of the ep, and then Barry comes back so they can all fight Reverse Flash. Maybe.

[tv echo]

Weren't we already wondering how the show could go on, since the show is called Arrow and everyone in SC now believes Roy Harper was the Arrow and that the Arrow is now dead?  That's the key question.  They can find a new lair and they can rebuild relationships.  But how do they again have an Arrow vigilante in SC?  I would say that they all relocate to another city, but that future headline referred to Green Arrow being from Starling City.

 

Methos was my fave character on Highlander.  I used him for comparison only for the plot device of having a powerful guy masquerading as a normal guy.  No other comparison to Malcolm.  Although I would point out that, even though Methos ended up helping Duncan, IIRC, he did start out as one of the Four Horsemen and did a lot of evil back in the day.  But current day Methos, as played by PW, was just so charismatic and likeable.

[apinknightmare]

Weren't we already wondering how the show could go on, since the show is called Arrow and everyone in SC now believes Roy Harper was the Arrow and that the Arrow is now dead?  That's the key question.  They can find a new lair and they can rebuild relationships.  But how do they again have an Arrow vigilante in SC?  I would say that they all relocate to another city, but that future headline referred to Green Arrow being from Starling City.

 

Once Quentin gets his head out of his ass about the Arrow (either after the FOUR INSTRUMENTS OF DEATH are released upon Starling or after Oliver helps out with something next season), Quentin will stop hunting him. The new Green Arrow will show up to honor the Arrow and blah blah blah all is forgiven. The other vigilantes can still be around helping since Quentin's kind of a hypocrite and isn't trying to arrest them.

 

I'm going to guess it'll be sometime next season since Quentin will probably go off on Oliver because of the FOUR INSTRUMENTS OF DEATHSPLOSION in Starling. 

[Sunshine]

But does Oliver know that his actions are unlikeable? We actually get a very definitive answer from him to that point. Someone specifically asks him, ‘How did you expect to repair all this?’ He’s got an answer for it. It may not be an answer you like, but I do think it’s answer that will make him, if not likable, then sympathetic at the least. Especially when you see what he’s been willing to do and why he’s been willing to do it. I think at the very least there’s a measure of sympathy for Oliver. That really, when we talk about sort of pushing the line with the audience, I think for my money, Oliver doesn’t always have to be likable. Hopefully, that answer will satisfy some people.

 

I think Oliver knows that his actions are unlikeable.  Part of me thinks that he doesn't expect to be able to repair what he has done.  It was just part of the job.  (Hello ARGUS training)  I do think he was willing to sacrifice all his relationships to keep Thea, Felicity, Diggle, Laurel and Starling City safe from the wrath of Ra's Al Ghul.  I think he would have had no problem killing Nyssa because she is a LOA member.  Would he have been willing to force himself upon her I don't know but I hope not.  I don't think it occurred to him as something Ra's would demand until it actually happened.  He might actually have looked upon Nyssa more sympathetically after seeing her treatment at her father's hands. Guess we'll find out soon.

[AyChihuahua]

I don't actually think it would be physically possible for him to rape Nyssa.  Ra's would have to drug him, but can that mind control drug make him physically excited?

 

Oh, and I'm sure he expected to lose everything he loves and basically accepted it, because he's a moron who internalizes every fortune cookie-sounding BS phrase everyone says to him.  His answer will be stupid and martyr-y..."I knew I would lose all of you, but it was worth it TO KEEP YOU SAFE!"  God I'm glad Digg decked him.

Edited May 12, 2015 by AyChihuahua