Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Carrie Ann]

SA also responded to or retweeted a selfie Paul Blackthorne posted, and said something about loving his hiatus beard. I think Lance is safe too.

 

I'm voting Ra's and Shrieve for the deaths. Something has to allow FB Oliver to get out of this Hong Kong situation and into the Bratva for S4, and I don't think they'd leave a character like Shrieve hanging out just trying to destabilize the US economy (...or...whatever his goal was? honestly I don't pay attention to the flashbacks). I don't think DC would care about them "killing" this version of Shrieve out of concern for any future projects with that character; that's precisely what Arrow has done with the other characters DC wants to use for other purposes.

[BkWurm1]

It's funny to me that there is anything left to the Flashbacks. I'd actually forgotten we probably would still have them this Wednesday. I can't imagine how they will tie them into the season finale.

[Sunshine]

Flashbacks are probably just Oliver & Co escaping the trap, saying good-bye to Tatsu, and boarding a ship to Russia.  Maybe it's just the last minute or two to wrap it up and set up S4 like the end of 2.23 did with Hong Kong.

[tv echo]

I think Team Arrow's base of operations will be at PT (or whatever name the company goes by next season).  All the tech stuff and resources are already there (does Felicity also get the helicopter and the jet? cuz that would be useful in transporting villains to their island prison).  I think Oliver will want his backup lair to remain a secret (even though Diggle, Felicity and ARGUS know about it).  It's his place to go and think about stuff alone.   If they used that lair, it would have to be completely outfitted, and its location would soon be as well known as the foundry lair.  I can see the advantages of keeping another lair (relatively) secret.  Always have a backup location.

 

I was hoping Oliver and Felicity would restart their romance with another 'first date'.  But by this point, I guess they're past that.  They've already confessed their feelings for each other and slept together.  I agree with those who've suggested that the next step is just that they move in together - likely Oliver would move in with Felicity at her apartment.  (That would leave Malcolm and Thea as housemates - won't that be fun?)  I doubt that they're going to go back to being platonic friends.  I would be surprised if they got engaged or married, esp. since I don't think dissolving Oliver's marriage to Nyssa is going to be that simple.

 

To clarify --- When I said that about fearing S1-S3 being like the first ('Gwen Stacy') phase of Oliver's journey, I was looking at the next three years as another trilogy.  They could keep Oliver and Felicity together in S4 (throwing in a few conflicts like the baby mama and her father), then break them up for some contrived plot reason in S5, and then conclude S6 with Oliver becoming the fully fledged GA (at which point I honestly think they haven't decided yet who Oliver will end up with, if anyone).

 

If Laurel is going to be in S4, then she needs a storyline.  I never read the comics, so correct me if I'm wrong - but didn't the Black Canary have, like, three husbands in the comics?  Oliver, someone named Larry and someone else?  I wonder if they'll bring in a new love interest for Laurel next season who has one of those names.  Alternatively, if the EPs are still looking to expand their TV-verse, they could use S4 to try to build up enthusiasm for a Birds of Prey spinoff by having Laurel's storyline involve building her own team with Nyssa and maybe Helena or even Tatsu.  If Laurel just remained part of Team Arrow, she and Oliver would be constantly butting heads (unless they significantly change one of their personalities).

 

P.S.  I'm telling you Oliver's son, Connor, is going to show up as a teenager through a mystical time travel portal... 

Edited May 11, 2015 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

but didn't the Black Canary have, like, three husbands in the comics? Oliver, someone named Larry and someone else?

The first Black Canary, Dinah Drake Lance, was married to Larry Lance. (That's Quentin, basically. His name is Quentin Larry Lance.) Their daughter was Dinah Laurel Lance, the second Black Canary, who was married to Oliver. In the new 52, they went back to Dinah Drake Lance as the Black Canary, but her husband's name was Kurt Lance instead of Larry.

There may be someone else I'm not aware of, but I think that's the way it goes.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Starfish35

[apinknightmare]

I think Team Arrow's base of operations will be at PT (or whatever name the company goes by next season).  All the tech stuff and resources are already there (does Felicity also get the helicopter and the jet? cuz that would be useful in transporting villains to their island prison).  I think Oliver will want his backup lair to remain a secret (even though Diggle, Felicity and ARGUS know about it). 

 

 

If their lair is at PT or whatever it's called, I really hope they build out a basement or something. Are they just riding down in the elevator however many stories every time they want to leave? And then they just exit out the front doors? They need a faster and more discreet method of arrival/departure, IMO. 

 

 

P.S.  I'm telling you Oliver's son, Connor, is going to show up as a teenager through a mystical time travel portal...

 

I keep hoping that if they insist on pursuing this stupid Oliver-has-a-child storyline that they'll throw in a twist. Like the woman we've believed is Sandra Hawke actually isn't (and that's why we've never gotten her name), and that she really did have a miscarriage, and the kid she talked to on the phone is from some other relationship. Oliver has a kid from some other person, only this liaison was back when Oliver was much younger, so the kid is actually close to being a teenager, if he/she isn't 13-14 already. 

 

I know it won't happen, but I'm gonna hope for it until my screen tells me to stop, haha. 

[tarotx]

I don't want them to bring a teen child of Oliver's. Time travel needs to stay away from this show. This show is the one more grounded.

Oliver's son is old enough to have a story right now. Casting is Crucial to get a child actor who can act and has chemistry with SA.

Edited May 11, 2015 by tarotx

[ostentatious]

If their lair is at PT or whatever it's called, I really hope they build out a basement or something. Are they just riding down in the elevator however many stories every time they want to leave? And then they just exit out the front doors? They need a faster and more discreet method of arrival/departure, IMO.

I keep hoping that if they insist on pursuing this stupid Oliver-has-a-child storyline that they'll throw in a twist. Like the woman we've believed is Sandra Hawke actually isn't (and that's why we've never gotten her name), and that she really did have a miscarriage, and the kid she talked to on the phone is from some other relationship. Oliver has a kid from some other person, only this liaison was back when Oliver was much younger, so the kid is actually close to being a teenager, if he/she isn't 13-14 already.

I know it won't happen, but I'm gonna hope for it until my screen tells me to stop, haha.

$50 says the twist is that Oliver has known about him for years. I mean, Amell pitched some Connor-related idea to the prods that they accepted. It isn't his mere existence. And Amell pitched crossing paths with Sandra in Central City. I suspected it all along, but Akio's death just nailed it for me.

Which should cause very nice conflict with Felicity, due to her daddy abandonment issues...and look, just in time for a season four dovetail!

I also like this because it doesn't require the kid to be around that much. Oliver will spend a long time refusing to engage, and since the kid is still in elementary school, his main visit should be like next summer hiatus. Yay.

Edited May 11, 2015 by ostentatious

[apinknightmare]

$50 says the twist is that Oliver has known about him for years. I mean, Amell pitched some Connor-related idea to the prods that they accepted. It isn't his mere existence. And Amell pitched crossing paths with Sandra in Central City. I suspected it all along, but Akio's death just nailed it for me.

Which should cause very nice conflict with Felicity, due to her daddy abandonment issues...and look, just in time for a season four dovetail!

 

Yeah, I guess it could be that too. I'm just not all that excited about the prospect of a 6 or 7 year-old kid on the show, whose only function apart from existing for angst about his existence would be to either get kidnapped for even more angst or to fill up screen time by asking his awkward father to get him some peanut butter and crackers. 

Edited May 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[jay741982]

$50 says the twist is that Oliver has known about him for years. I mean, Amell pitched some Connor-related idea to the prods that they accepted. It isn't his mere existence. And Amell pitched crossing paths with Sandra in Central City. I suspected it all along, but Akio's death just nailed it for me.

Which should cause very nice conflict with Felicity, due to her daddy abandonment issues...and look, just in time for a season four dovetail!

I also like this because it doesn't require the kid to be around that much. Oliver will spend a long time refusing to engage, and since the kid is still in elementary school, his main visit should be like next summer hiatus. Yay.

Why should there be issues with Felicity? She knows Oliver was a man ho before the island. Like someone on here said Felicity should throw a crack about being surprised that he only has one lol

[tv echo]

I just watched the video of SA from Wizard World Philadelphia (and corrected my previous report in the Behind the Scenes thread).  What SA said about becoming Ra's is: "I think that there is definitely a chance at some point this season that I may officially be Ra's al Ghul."  So he wasn't as absolute in his statement as I thought.

 

He also said that the LP "is a part of and will continue to be a part of Arrow."  So unless he's teasing us, we're not done with the LP yet.

 

When talking about his favorite season, he felt as though S1 set up S2, though the payoff in S2 was better.  "And I think that we are quite possibly in a spot where season 3 will serve again as a transitionary spot and set up season 4."  So now we have MG saying that S1-S3 is like a trilogy with 3x23 serving as a punctuation point for this trilogy, although it ends in "kind of" a cliffhanger.  And we have SA saying both that 3x23 felt like a series finale and that S3 serves as a transition to set up S4.  Huh?

Edited May 11, 2015 by tv echo

[blixie]

I don't care about the kid and while I get Felicity might have some feels about Oliver knowing and not participating, that's still not the same as being there and then splitting, which is how she phrased it about her own dad (he *left* us). Oliver wasn't ever really "with" this baby mama in any relationship sense.

 

In terms of the potential two deaths, I'm thinking it's Al Sa-him and Ras, mostly because I don't want The Beastmaster to die, even though he was barely around and he's a one dimensional evil. I LOVE THE BEASTMASTER.

[apinknightmare]

I'm hoping the drama around the kid where Felicity is concerned is of the "you're his father, you should be involved" variety, with Oliver arguing that it will only bring terrible things into the kid's life. ANGST ANGST ANGST, Oliver finally accepts that he should try to be a father, the end.

[AyChihuahua]

 

I would be surprised if they got engaged or married, esp. since I don't think dissolving Oliver's marriage to Nyssa is going to be that simple.

Why?  There is simply no way that a League of Assassins marriage is legally-binding in the U.S., and even if it were (which really, it's not), why wouldn't they just get an annulment?  They entered the marriage under pain of death for refusing, haven't had sex, and neither one would have any interest in remaining married. 

[tv echo]

I think the EPs may have come up with some plot contrivance to keep the marriage going for a little longer.  Even though no one wants it, there could be some greater good involved.  For example, Oliver & Nyssa may want the LOA members kept under control and not let loose as free agents upon the world - so that may mean Oliver staying Ra's for awhile longer (assuming he becomes Ra's) and Nyssa staying married to assure the loyalty of the old guard, just until they've worked out some ritual transition.  Alternatively, if Nyssa becomes Ra's, maybe she must abide by the LOA traditions.  That means her marriage must be dissolved per LOA rules and rituals.

 

I dunno.  Just speculating.  In any case, I still think it's too soon for an O/F marriage.

[nksarmi]

Yeah, I guess it could be that too. I'm just not all that excited about the prospect of a 6 or 7 year-old kid on the show, whose only function apart from existing for angst about his existence would be to either get kidnapped for even more angst or to fill up screen time by asking his awkward father to get him some peanut butter and crackers. 

Wouldn't the kid have to be older than that.  5 years on the island and he's been back for 3 so that would make the kid at least 9, right?  If they ignore continuity a wee bit and try to fix the Oliver was always cheating on Laurel plot, they could age the kid up even more.

[catahoulamama]

I just watched the video of SA from Wizard World Philadelphia (and corrected my previous report in the Behind the Scenes thread).  What SA said about becoming Ra's is: "I think that there is definitely a chance at some point this season that I may officially be Ra's al Ghul."  So he wasn't as absolute in his statement as I thought.

 

He also said that the LP "is a part of and will continue to be a part of Arrow."  So unless he's teasing us, we're not done with the LP yet.

 

When talking about his favorite season, he felt as though S1 set up S2, though the payoff in S2 was better.  "And I think that we are quite possibly in a spot where season 3 will serve again as a transitionary spot and set up season 4."  So now we have MG saying that S1-S3 is like a trilogy with 3x23 serving as a punctuation point for this trilogy, although it ends in "kind of" a cliffhanger.  And we have SA saying both that 3x23 felt like a series finale and that S3 serves as a transition to set up S4.  Huh?

When I watched the video, I thought he was just being very diplomatic about S3 not being his favorite season, despite it being the best ratings wise.  He also said that each season by the end serves to set up the next, but that overall S2 was his favorite. Whatever they do in S4, the things they've done this season had to be done to get to that point, and if they're operating like S1-3 are a trilogy, then 3x23 could definitely feel like a series finale.

 

I'm just hoping they get back on track next season and that they're not so concerned about shocking or surprising the audience that the story gets lost in all the subterfuge like it did this year.  This season, they wandered away from Oliver's story, despite saying it's all been about him and his identity, and we kind of ended up in the weeds a bit. Looking forward to next year being more cohesive hopefully.

[AyChihuahua]

I think the EPs may have come up with some plot contrivance to keep the marriage going for a little longer.  Even though no one wants it, there could be some greater good involved.  For example, Oliver & Nyssa may want the LOA members kept under control and not let loose as free agents upon the world - so that may mean Oliver staying Ra's for awhile longer (assuming he becomes Ra's) and Nyssa staying married to assure the loyalty of the old guard, just until they've worked out some ritual transition.  Alternatively, if Nyssa becomes Ra's, maybe she must abide by the LOA traditions.  That means her marriage must be dissolved per LOA rules and rituals.

 

I dunno.  Just speculating.  In any case, I still think it's too soon for an O/F marriage.

I'm really super tired of Oliver's "greater good" crap.  However, I am very sure Oliver is going to end this season out of the LOA, so out of the marriage.  If he becomes Ra's, I think it will be for five seconds before he either gives it to Nyssa or they just lie about who killed Ra's (because Oliver is the Heir, but I'm betting the rule that whoever kills Ra's becomes Ra's trumps that).  I'm actually thinking there's going to be some big twist with either Malcolm becoming Ra's (which I'd be fine with, make him a villain again), or Damien Darhk.  I really want Nyssa to kill the crap out of Ra's, but I think I'd be okay with her ending the season out of the LOA, too. 

 

Totally, totally agree with you that he's not going to end the season married to Felicity, though.  Both because I think it would be silly, and I would hate it.  They really need to work on their romantic relationship and trust issues, not jump into a marriage.

[ostentatious]

Why should there be issues with Felicity? She knows Oliver was a man ho before the island. Like someone on here said Felicity should throw a crack about being surprised that he only has one lol

 

It wouldn't be about him having a kid. It would be if she found out he has known about the kid for years and chosen not to be part of his life. Felicity was abandoned by her own father. Sure, she would come to understand that Oliver was protecting the kid, or thought he was (though lbr, Oliver's general reluctance to inflict himself upon people he cares about is in there too) and she would probably learn that something similar was at play with her own father leaving her. If anything would trigger an emotional reaction in Felicity, it would be finding out that Oliver did a thing that she has indicted and resented her own father for. Psychologically speaking that is a great story for them to play. It also would call back to that one time Ra's was shippin' Olicity and told Felicity about how he himself had abandoned his first family. If DD is Felicity's father, Ra's surely knows it. 

 

When I look back at Oliver's face when Felicity talks about her father abandoning her, and his face when he saw Sandra in CC...

[tarotx]

Nyssa kills Ra's in the comics but it turns her evil and Ra's wins because that was what he wanted all along. I don't want Nyssa a "villain". I like her shades of grey.

I think the final will have current day Oliver have some happy while Flashback Ollie will do something "evil". I think he will kill the general in a more murderous kind of way...

Edited May 11, 2015 by tarotx

[AyChihuahua]

Nyssa kills Ra's in the comics but it turns her evil and Ra's wins because that was what he wanted all along. I don't want Nyssa a "villain". I like her shades of grey.

I don't want her to turn evil either, and I'd kind of like her to end up out of the LOA, because they've crapped all over her, and I think the writers could get a lot of mileage out of showing her trying to adapt to a quasi-normal life.  However, I do want her to be the one who kills the ever-lovin' crap out of her dad, although bc he's the "hero," Oliver probably will...or maybe Malcolm.  I'm really starting to get on board with Malcolm ending up as the new Ra's. 

[jay741982]

I'm hoping the drama around the kid where Felicity is concerned is of the "you're his father, you should be involved" variety, with Oliver arguing that it will only bring terrible things into the kid's life. ANGST ANGST ANGST, Oliver finally accepts that he should try to be a father, the end.

This is what it SHOULD be I'm hoping it is. I don't like the idea of Oliver knowing he had a kid and was basically a deadbeat.

It wouldn't be about him having a kid. It would be if she found out he has known about the kid for years and chosen not to be part of his life. Felicity was abandoned by her own father. Sure, she would come to understand that Oliver was protecting the kid, or thought he was (though lbr, Oliver's general reluctance to inflict himself upon people he cares about is in there too) and she would probably learn that something similar was at play with her own father leaving her. If anything would trigger an emotional reaction in Felicity, it would be finding out that Oliver did a thing that she has indicted and resented her own father for. Psychologically speaking that is a great story for them to play. It also would call back to that one time Ra's was shippin' Olicity and told Felicity about how he himself had abandoned his first family. If DD is Felicity's father, Ra's surely knows it. 

 

When I look back at Oliver's face when Felicity talks about her father abandoning her, and his face when he saw Sandra in CC...

I could see it being this sadly UGH I'm really wanting it to be he doesn't know he has a child but with these writers I can see your scenario playing out I just don't want Olicity angst like this season I'm drained from it

[tarotx]

I don't want Oliver to know about the kid for years. That's just nasty. Maybe have Oliver learn about the kid and question rather it's a good idea to risk messing the Kids current life. Plus worry about bringing him in when his Bratva past or whatever is catching up with him.

Felicity can still have her Daddy drama with Oliver that way but not as much deadbeat Oliver.

[apinknightmare]

Wouldn't the kid have to be older than that.  5 years on the island and he's been back for 3 so that would make the kid at least 9, right?  If they ignore continuity a wee bit and try to fix the Oliver was always cheating on Laurel plot, they could age the kid up even more.

 

The flashback last year said it was seven years ago, and the woman had just gotten pregnant. So at most the kid is 8 now, right? 

[apinknightmare]

It wouldn't be about him having a kid. It would be if she found out he has known about the kid for years and chosen not to be part of his life. Felicity was abandoned by her own father. Sure, she would come to understand that Oliver was protecting the kid, or thought he was (though lbr, Oliver's general reluctance to inflict himself upon people he cares about is in there too) and she would probably learn that something similar was at play with her own father leaving her. If anything would trigger an emotional reaction in Felicity, it would be finding out that Oliver did a thing that she has indicted and resented her own father for. Psychologically speaking that is a great story for them to play. It also would call back to that one time Ra's was shippin' Olicity and told Felicity about how he himself had abandoned his first family. If DD is Felicity's father, Ra's surely knows it. 

 

When I look back at Oliver's face when Felicity talks about her father abandoning her, and his face when he saw Sandra in CC...

 

 

The problem with her being legitimately upset about Oliver knowing he had a kid is that when he came home, he was still murdering people left and right. Last year he had Slade after him, and he spent all this year thinking he couldn't have a personal life. Felicity's been present for all of that, so she knows he didn't come home in great shape, ready to be in a kid's life. Surely someone as smart as she is, even with her own abandonment issues at play, would see that someone like Oliver was not at all good, stable father material. If anything, I could see them fighting because he's reluctant to get involved now, rather than her being upset that he didn't get involved in the kid's life earlier. Because seriously...that's a good thing. Although who knows with this show. 

[ostentatious]

I think it will be a combination. He will be unwilling to get involved now, but also has known for years. And his unwillingness to be a father for several years is not dissimilar to his unwillingness to be with Felicity for several years. I will be displeased if it's ONLY that he's just finding out and refuses to get involved. That's less excusable than that he's known for a while and, well, when you let things go for a long time it gets harder and harder to reach out.

 

Also, Felicity doesn't know yet what all went down while he was away, and this is a trigger issue for her. I don't think we're looking at extended angst here, just conflict. And I think it will be there to juxtapose against Felicity's father situation. 

 

As far as age goes, the pregnancy had to be sometime during the two years before he left because that's the only time he was dating Laurel. So, 2005 at the earliest, meaning the kid was born 2006 at the earlier, which means he is no more than 9. Visually I suppose they could cheat him up to 12. Regardless, I think he's fine existing mostly offscreen until say season seven, when he'll be like 19 and played by a 25-yo. 

 

I wonder how often they regret this whole real time progression thing. So limiting, and now inescapable because of spinoffs.

[Sunshine]

I just watched the video of SA from Wizard World Philadelphia (and corrected my previous report in the Behind the Scenes thread).  What SA said about becoming Ra's is: "I think that there is definitely a chance at some point this season that I may officially be Ra's al Ghul."  So he wasn't as absolute in his statement as I thought.

 

He also said that the LP "is a part of and will continue to be a part of Arrow."  So unless he's teasing us, we're not done with the LP yet.

 

When talking about his favorite season, he felt as though S1 set up S2, though the payoff in S2 was better.  "And I think that we are quite possibly in a spot where season 3 will serve again as a transitionary spot and set up season 4."  So now we have MG saying that S1-S3 is like a trilogy with 3x23 serving as a punctuation point for this trilogy, although it ends in "kind of" a cliffhanger.  And we have SA saying both that 3x23 felt like a series finale and that S3 serves as a transition to set up S4.  Huh?

Maybe this is the end of Oliver Queen's constant guilt and self-loathing trip?  He was lying and pushing everyone away.  He didn't know who or what he was anymore . 

 

The set up is Oliver choosing Oliver and at least attempting a life with Felicity.  If we're lucky we will get more scenes outside the lair for everyone.  The original Team Arrow is probably dead in the water.  They have been trying to transition away from it all year by expanding the team.  Oliver and Diggle will be at odds because of Lyla's kidnapping and Sara being left unattended.  Thea is in the field.  BC is becoming more of an asset and less of a liability which probably leads to more GA/BC team ups in S4.  Diggle will probably be back in the field but with who - Oliver? Thea? BC? Alone?  Even if he works with Oliver he is no longer going to defer to him. He'll question him more.  Felicity will be tech support for all of them.  I do think the company ownership transfer is to make the site the lair and possibly get it back to Oliver.  Flashback set up is Oliver leaving Hong Kong for Russia.

[Sunshine]

Just a thought...There were a lot of previous posts about how neither Felicity nor Oliver had the ability/experience to run a company.  If they are really redeeming Malcolm and since he's proven capable of hiding out in plain sight in SC, they could use him as a BTS advisor.  

[kismet]

I think Team Arrow's base of operations will be at PT (or whatever name the company goes by next season).  All the tech stuff and resources are already there (does Felicity also get the helicopter and the jet? cuz that would be useful in transporting villains to their island prison).  I think Oliver will want his backup lair to remain a secret (even though Diggle, Felicity and ARGUS know about it).  It's his place to go and think about stuff alone.   If they used that lair, it would have to be completely outfitted, and its location would soon be as well known as the foundry lair.  I can see the advantages of keeping another lair (relatively) secret.  Always have a backup location.

 

I was hoping Oliver and Felicity would restart their romance with another 'first date'.  But by this point, I guess they're past that.  They've already confessed their feelings for each other and slept together.  I agree with those who've suggested that the next step is just that they move in together - likely Oliver would move in with Felicity at her apartment.  (That would leave Malcolm and Thea as housemates - won't that be fun?)  I doubt that they're going to go back to being platonic friends.  I would be surprised if they got engaged or married, esp. since I don't think dissolving Oliver's marriage to Nyssa is going to be that simple.

 

PS.  I'm telling you Oliver's son, Connor, is going to show up as a teenager through a mystical time travel portal... 

Lair ~ Totally Agree with you about the lair, I could see the base being at PT or whatever the new name will be. Pretty cool if they are gonna have FS bankroll the new operation. Honestly I think they forget about the back up lair half the time on the show.

 

F&O/N~ I could see how there might be some extended drama in undoing the marriage for plot purposes. But IRL, you can be engaged to someone while still married to another esp if the divorce is going to be complicated. It happened to my friend who's now husband was still technically married, even though he was separated from his wife for years before he started dating my friend. In his case, there was children & some legal/financial issues. So they waited until they needed to to start the paperwork. N&O never wanted to be married, so essentially they are already separated. So I don't see how the marriage would impede Oliver proposing to Felicity if that is what he wants to do. The whole incident might have made him realize that he wants to be married, even if they have to wait for the LOA marriage dissolution rituals/paperwork.

 

Son ~ Plz no time travel on this show - would like it to remain grounded. I think they would be better to just age the kid to preteens. We never really know when that particular affair happened, so the kid could be older.

Edited May 11, 2015 by kismet

[Chaser]

I actually think they may be setting up a Diggle/BC team-up. Those two seem to be more on the same page right now. They are both angry.

 

I would lean more towards Oliver pairing with Thea. Which I really want to see.

 

And yes to Felicity running tech for everyone.

[tarotx]

Oliver knowingly abandoning his child is a character flaw. Him worrying about messing the Boy's seemingly good life can be viewed as a good thing. Him worried about not being a good enough man to be a father is realistic.

Felicity sharing her own hurt about growing up without a father can be postitive angst for the couple. Drama doesn't need to be melodrama

[Chaser]

Ratings wise this season may be a success, but its really taken a hit from the critics. I'm wondering the influence of that on the showrunners. IMO the show has not found away to expand Team Arrow successfully. And having them at odds or out of each others orbits just itsn't working. If they take note of that, I think it make influence the stress on the Diggle-Oliver relationship. Maybe take it to mid-season, instead of streching it out. That's my hope anyone.

[Guest]

Personally, after how Oliver interacted with the baby Mama on The Flash crossover, I really don't think he knows about the kid. Regardless, it's definitely going to bring up some issues with everyone. How it affects his relationship with Felicity, how Laurel is going to feel knowing he had a kid when he was in a relationship with her (I'm already expecting O/L scenes from this), and even Diggle - might give him the chance to say 'Well, now you know how it feels when I found baby Sara all alone without her mother' type conversations. 

 

I just hope we don't see the kid much. Seriously. Kids ruin everything. 

[AyChihuahua]

Ratings wise this season may be a success, but its really taken a hit from the critics. I'm wondering the influence of that on the showrunners. IMO the show has not found away to expand Team Arrow successfully. And having them at odds or out of each others orbits just itsn't working. If they take note of that, I think it make influence the stress on the Diggle-Oliver relationship. Maybe take it to mid-season, instead of streching it out. That's my hope anyone.

Totally agree, EXCEPT I am really looking forward to Thea joining.  I disliked her S1, started liking her S2, hated her when she knowingly went to hang with a mass murderer and didn't stop wanting to hang with him until she found out he'd done something bad TO HER.  Talk about a self-focused person.  But, from what I've seen in gifs and youtube (shooting her brother, yay!), I think she's going to be great on TA, she will be able to snark at her brother even more than Roy did bc she won't be a bit afraid of him, and it'll be fun seeing him trying to chill a tiny bit re his control issues.

 

Re ratings, I'm curious what the show is compared to.  I wonder if the CW compares it to Flash, in which case they might start pushing for Guggie et al. to lighten up a bit, bc Flash has like 1M more viewers per ep.

[Chaser]

The best reaction possible from Laurel: Eye-Roll - "Just one?"

[catahoulamama]

Ratings wise this season may be a success, but its really taken a hit from the critics. I'm wondering the influence of that on the showrunners. IMO the show has not found away to expand Team Arrow successfully. And having them at odds or out of each others orbits just itsn't working. If they take note of that, I think it make influence the stress on the Diggle-Oliver relationship. Maybe take it to mid-season, instead of streching it out. That's my hope anyone.

With the complaints from fans and critics about this season, makes you wonder if the ratings bump is from viewers of the Flash due to crossovers.  They could have gained new viewers who weren't previously watching Arrow, but started Flash from the beginning.

[Sunshine]

I think 3.23 will be the end of the absolute darkness in this show.  It is never going to be as light as Flash but it will start to lighten up in S4.  If not, how does Oliver become Green Arrow?  It may still have dark moments (It definitely will in the flashbacks.) but I think part of the end of the trilogy is adding more light/hope to the show. 

 

As far as the critics go, I think they tend to break down along comics & entertainment much like the fandom does.  The biggest complaints I have seen from comic sites are Olicity/Felicity related and people being unhappy with Ra's making an offer to Oliver that should be reserved for Batman.  Entertainment complaints seem to be in regards to speed of comic characters and lack of the trio. (I personally bought into the trio but I am aware that isn't why everyone watches.)  The only thing both sides seem to agree on is that the writing for plot not characters doesn't work.

 

I think the "kinda" cliffhanger for S3 is once you wrap up the existing storylines we're supposed to be left wondering "Where do they go from here?"

Edited May 11, 2015 by Sunshine

[nksarmi]

The flashback last year said it was seven years ago, and the woman had just gotten pregnant. So at most the kid is 8 now, right? 

Which I think they could easily turn into 9 by next season.  Like I said though, if they ignore that little seven years ago tag line bit of continuity, they could age the kid up to 1o or 11.  I'm don't think they could go much older or they would be retconning a college hook up into a high school one.

[apinknightmare]

Which I think they could easily turn into 9 by next season. Like I said though, if they ignore that little seven years ago tag line bit of continuity, they could age the kid up to 1o or 11. I'm don't think they could go much older or they would be retconning a college hook up into a high school one.

I'm honestly not trying to be snarky, but it doesn't really matter to me if the kid is 8 or 11. He still exists for angst's sake and to be kidnapping bait. TV children are useless to me on shows like this unless they're old enough to drive at least, haha.

[Chaser]

I'm trying to think of an example of the Surprise You Got A Kid trope done well. I really can't.

Edited May 11, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[apinknightmare]

I'm trying to think of an example of the Surprise You Got A Kid trope done well. I really can't.

 

This one is especially stupid since I'm sure people who want to see Connor Hawke want to see him BE Connor Hawke, not some kid who's still young enough for his mother to say, "Mommy will be home soon" when she talks to him on the phone.

Edited May 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[doesntworkonwood]

I'm trying to think of an example of the Surprise You Got A Kid trope done well. I really can't.

 

It's one of those things that only tends to work in textual fiction (be that of the fan or mainstream variety), and even then only in character focused stories or stories that are one book (and therefore aren't trilogies etc). And the reason for that is because it is a character driven storyline so you need to be able to get into the characters heads easily, as the storyline is all about their reactions. Another reason is because you don't run out of storyline. Because there are only two storylines at this age, kidnapping or bonding, or kidnapping and bonding. If they bring the kid back in a few years time they could do 'teenage angst' but they've already done that with Thea. And Arrow might not even last that long. 

 

The reason Diggle having a child works is because we never see Sara, but we always know that she is a motivation for Diggle. If the kid is going to be a permanent or semi-permanent part of Oliver's life, we need to see the kid, because Oliver is the main character (or is supposed to be anyway). And that's just not going to work, because what is the child supposed to do? 

[Carrie Ann]

Yep, I've been dreading the love child storyline since last season, and it's not because of Olicity angst. I honestly don't know how they'll handle it when it comes to the two of them, and I'm not particularly concerned about it. (Unless they take it in a silly OTT or OOC direction, like Felicity freaks at the fact that Oliver is not involved in the life of a kid he didn't know about.) (If @ostentatious's theory that Oliver has known for a long time is true, it will not bug me as much.)

 

No, the reason I've been dreading it is that I HATE the Sudden Kid trope, because 1) Kids are rarely good actors. 2) The kid, no matter the amount of screentime, becomes the #1 most important thing in the hero's life; the thing to which all else must take a backseat. And that makes me roll my eyes, because 3) We're expected to believe in the feelings and care about a relationship that appeared out of nowhere, and I never, ever do.

 

The only happy ending of this storyline for me is the kid already having a father figure, and Oliver deciding to leave that family in peace. But that's not happening, so basically my only hope is that they subvert some of these tropes, and that the kid is on-screen for like 10 minutes total and rarely discussed after next season.

[tarotx]

Well the comic book Conner Hawke doesn't have to be Oliver's Son. He could be the young uncle of the Boy. And maybe a new love interest for Thea. He can have issue with Oliver for getting his sister pregnant and the perceived abandonment. He can go by his last name Hawke. And can be the mixed race that comic book fans want.

Oliver's son can cutely be into masked superheros and be a huge fan of The Flash. He can also have a baby ammount Of training with a bow and MMA. Which he would have picked up from uncle Conner. Maybe he can be a wannabe hockey player. It could be cute having a father son bonding moment on ice.

There are ways to do this without major screen time for a child.

This one is especially stupid since I'm sure people who want to see Connor Hawke want to see him BE Connor Hawke, not some kid who's still young enough for his mother to say, "Mommy will be home soon" when she talks to him on the phone.

[romantic idiot]

Yep, I've been dreading the love child storyline since last season, and it's not because of Olicity angst. I honestly don't know how they'll handle it when it comes to the two of them, and I'm not particularly concerned about it. (Unless they take it in a silly OTT or OOC direction, like Felicity freaks at the fact that Oliver is not involved in the life of a kid he didn't know about.) (If @ostentatious's theory that Oliver has known for a long time is true, it will not bug me as much.)

 

No, the reason I've been dreading it is that I HATE the Sudden Kid trope, because 1) Kids are rarely good actors. 2) The kid, no matter the amount of screentime, becomes the #1 most important thing in the hero's life; the thing to which all else must take a backseat. And that makes me roll my eyes, because 3) We're expected to believe in the feelings and care about a relationship that appeared out of nowhere, and I never, ever do.

 

The only happy ending of this storyline for me is the kid already having a father figure, and Oliver deciding to leave that family in peace. But that's not happening, so basically my only hope is that they subvert some of these tropes, and that the kid is on-screen for like 10 minutes total and rarely discussed after next season.

 

This. I'm hoping the mother sees some Mafia killing and decides to go into witness protection or something. Or joins Doctors without borders or some charitable organisation and moves far far away. 

[apinknightmare]

Well the comic book Conner Hawke doesn't have to be Oliver's Son. He could be the young uncle of the Boy. And maybe a new love interest for Thea. He can have issue with Oliver for getting his sister pregnant and the perceived abandonment. He can go by his last name Hawke. And can be the mixed race that comic book fans want.

 

 

Since Connor is canonically Oliver's kid, if he's not Oliver's kid in this universe, then what's the point of introducing his existence? If he's a young uncle, then they would've just been better off doing a redux of the Roy storyline where Oliver mentors another young man into becoming a hero. I mean, yeah, there are ways the storyline could be cute, but I don't trust this show to make it cute. We'll see. 

[tarotx]

There are already changes so why not? The purpose would be They can have the mix race Conner, Mia/Thea potential love interest and give him a small link to Oliver.

And this wouldn't be a retread of Roy any more than any young sidekick would be... Plus he can easily be in College in Central City so give Thea a reason to visit the Flash.

Oliver can have his child to give him some smile time and reason to be a better man. One without aging the boy and giving us two young adult males needing screen time since Thea will eventually get a new love interest cause Roy left.

[apinknightmare]

And this wouldn't be a retread of Roy any more than any young sidekick would be... Plus he can easily be in College in Central City so give Thea a reason to visit the Flash.

 

I didn't write that it would be a retread, I wrote that if they were going to introduce a Connor who isn't Oliver's son that they would've been better off doing a retread instead of bringing a non-canon kid into the picture. It would be nice if the kid gave Oliver some smile time, and I honestly hope he gets it. I just don't trust this show to give that to him until maybe the last few minutes of the season finale. But maybe things will be different next season (I keep telling myself, despite knowing that is probably not going to happen). 

[statsgirl]

I'm so hoping the kid stays with his mother after they've done the shocking reveal. Then they can pull him back in for the occasional storyline

 

If anyone freaks out at the knowledge that Oliver knew he had a child all along, it should be Diggle rather than Felicity, Diggle who knows what it's like to have a child and love her.  I really think they've just going to drop Felicity's abandonment issues unless it plays into the storyline with her father (I signed the petition for Sebastian Roche).  After this season with Oliver, from the rejection in The Calm to his "dying" to Al Sah-him her abandonment issues should be having her in full-time therapy but they've never even mentioned them since 2x13.

 

I think Team Arrow's base of operations will be at PT (or whatever name the company goes by next season).  All the tech stuff and resources are already there (does Felicity also get the helicopter and the jet? cuz that would be useful in transporting villains to their island prison).  I think Oliver will want his backup lair to remain a secret (even though Diggle, Felicity and ARGUS know about it).  It's his place to go and think about stuff alone.   If they used that lair, it would have to be completely outfitted, and its location would soon be as well known as the foundry lair.  I can see the advantages of keeping another lair (relatively) secret.  Always have a backup location.

[snip]

 

If Laurel is going to be in S4, then she needs a storyline.  I never read the comics, so correct me if I'm wrong - but didn't the Black Canary have, like, three husbands in the comics?  Oliver, someone named Larry and someone else?  I wonder if they'll bring in a new love interest for Laurel next season who has one of those names.  Alternatively, if the EPs are still looking to expand their TV-verse, they could use S4 to try to build up enthusiasm for a Birds of Prey spinoff by having Laurel's storyline involve building her own team with Nyssa and maybe Helena or even Tatsu.  If Laurel just remained part of Team Arrow, she and Oliver would be constantly butting heads (unless they significantly change one of their personalities).

PT would be the place of choice since they already have the set but it's too public.  Night watchmen, people working overnight, and why are Oliver and Thea Queen and Laurel Lance always showing up there?  Not to mention, Arrow, Speedy and BC would have to chance their clothes before they entered the building. And if the base is high up, as it looked from the scenes, they're going to have to wait for the elevator to take them down before they can head out to save anyone and that's going to take time even if there is a private elevator.

 

Not to say the writers won't do it but I can see a ton of logistical problems.  Now that Thea knows, I think she and Oliver should buy a house near the Glades and use the basement for the secret stuff.  (Although would there be enough room?  The basement of the foundry is looking like a really smart idea right now.)

 

I wonder if they've given up on a BoP spin-off now that they have 3 superhero shows on CW, plus Supergirl and everything else Berlanti has.  Or maybe they think that a female-centred show isn't going to be watched as much as their others and put all the female characters they're still interested in into Legends.

 

I'm sad that Roy had to leave in order for Laurel to have a place on Team Arrow.  Yes, I know CH's contract was only 2 years and Thea is probably taking the sidekick role on Team Arrow but unless Laurel has her own storylines outside of TA, I'm going to take it as Roy having to leave to make a place for the Black Canary.

 

If they ever have Laurel in a relationship with someone called Larry or Kurt, I'll take that as a sign that Lauriver is truly dead.

Edited May 11, 2015 by statsgirl

[nksarmi]

I'm honestly not trying to be snarky, but it doesn't really matter to me if the kid is 8 or 11. He still exists for angst's sake and to be kidnapping bait. TV children are useless to me on shows like this unless they're old enough to drive at least, haha.

Yea I was just trying to think of how old they could make the kid and like I said, unless they turn a college hook up into a high school hook up (which even the casual viewer might catch) - I don't think we can get even a 14 year old driving illegally next season. :)