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Morrigan2575
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I think Felicity will DO pretty much only Oliver (which is plenty girl) but when Ra's confronts her, she shows her backbone.  Any plans, I suspect will happen after the pillow counting is done.

I love when my Girl shows her backbone. She will defend her man lol.

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I think maybe the key will lie in Team Arrow not knowing what becoming the heir actually entails. Felicity has a belief that Oliver is good. Oliver believes that the LoA is a tool that can be used to accomplish the goals of its head. If they don't understand that there's going to be a process that is kind of a super-concentrated version of what he went through all those years (torture, breaking down humanity, turning one into a sociopath) then they think it's *their* Oliver who will be the heir, but it won't be. So maybe Felicity's stand is about who she knows Oliver is and that he will remain the man she knows him to be and Ra's thinking her faith is touching but knowing she's very wrong and that he will not be that man, so she needs to say her farewells. Which sets up an end of the season that's a battle for his soul, breaking the conditioning via the strength of the connections to his humanity in the forms of the people he loves, so that Ra's turns out to be the one who is very wrong.

Malcolm may not really understand the process and also wants Oliver to do this thing, Maseo appears to be dealing with his own problems and also wants Oliver to do this thing, and Nyssa ain't around, so there is no one to warn them about what's coming.

Seat42f says the sex comes around midpoint, so the scene with Ra's may take us to mid show commercial break off of her pensive decision face. Then she comes to his room top of the next scene, which leaves the final third for goodbyes and the transformation montage, which I suspect may be intercut with calm peaceful scenes of Dig, Felicity, Thea, and Malcolm returning to SC. Maybe not just the flight, but getting there, Dig back with Lyla, Thea recovering, Felicity going about life confident that Oliver will be back, which will suggest the passage of time and the length of the ritual he's enduring.

Edited by ostentatious
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Maybe Maseo will try and stop Ra's from keep pursuing Oliver? Why else would he confess saving him? The question though is why Ra's would keep wanting Oliver as heir after he knows. Still, I love Maseo. Can we keep him?

In my mind, I feel like one of 2 things needs to happen this season to Maseo. He either dies (don't really want this) or he becomes the next heir. As much as I feel bad for Nyssa & am not for the whole sexism of Ras, as of yesterday I am sorta hoping that Nyssa becomes the floater. I want Nyssa to be happy kicking ass somewhere, not stuck under her Father's rule in NP waiting to be replaced by the next good looking billionaire that catches Ras's eye.

I think Felicity will DO pretty much only Oliver (which is plenty girl) but when Ra's confronts her, she shows her backbone.  Any plans, I suspect will happen after the pillow counting is done.  

Don't forget the morning after candle counting to make sure they are all properly blown out. Fire Safety is very important in NP :)

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Bleh, that breakup. I'm glad I know she's going to tell Oliver she loves him tonight otherwise the continued "lets point out to Felicity how Felicity feels" crap would be even more tiresome than it already is.

 

TAKE OWNERSHIP OF YOUR FEELS, GIRL

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Yuck, this scene. It's kind of uncanny how it's clear the writers intend on Palmer to be the ~understanding guy~, except all I want is for Felicity to punch him up the nose for telling her how she feels.

 

The writing legit doesn't get that having a man telling a woman what and how she feels is awful, and controlling, and undermining. But then again, if ever a season of Arrow has highlighted how much the writers room doesn't think much about the agency of its lady characters.

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The clip cuts off before she responds but really it could stop there and I would be fine. The break up was something I needed to happen but wasn't really interested in watching so I'm good. It is a parallel to Oliver and Sara like we thought.

 

I will say this, as much as I hate the 'tell her how she feels' I liked the way BR played it. It was soft and understated and he totally mentions 'Jello' which I love. Seriously dude if you had just toned it down a few notches. 

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I don't find it as gross as I normally would because Felicity seems well aware of how she feels about Oliver, so it's not so much pointing out feelings she doesn't know she has, but she's obviously deciding not to act on them, so shut up about it, my god (and I don't just mean Ray - he's allowed to guard his heart or whatever, so is fully within his rights to end a relationship that he's in with a woman who's in love with another man). I just want to hear from Felicity, that's all. I'm glad I know we'll be doing that tonight, and I hope there's something in there about why she's held onto it for so long, even though I can think of a thousand reasons why, I want to hear it from her. 

 

I'm fully aware I probably won't get that, ugh.

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I guess I don't mind so much Ray pointing out Felicity's feelings to her because it's been done to Oliver too-- by Sara last season and by Digg multiple times this season. It's been clear that both Oliver and Felicity are in deep denial of their feelings for each other (or they know, but refuse to act on it) so I kind of expect the trope of other characters pushing them until they do something about it.

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I don't find it as gross as I normally would because Felicity seems well aware of how she feels about Oliver, so it's not so much pointing out feelings she doesn't know she has, but she's obviously deciding not to act on them, so shut up about it, my god (and I don't just mean Ray - he's allowed to guard his heart or whatever, so is fully within his rights to end a relationship that he's in with a woman who's in love with another man). I just want to hear from Felicity, that's all. I'm glad I know we'll be doing that tonight, and I hope there's something in there about why she's held onto it for so long, even though I can think of a thousand reasons why, I want to hear it from her. 

 

I'm fully aware I probably won't get that, ugh.

I guess I resigned myself to the fact that this is the break up we are going to get. They want to make Ray sympathetic to the audience, they want their parallel. So that's what we get. I am hopefully that when MG said we would understand why the I Love You was held back, it wouldn't be a plot device for Oliver but a character moment for Felicity. It's probably foolish hope, but its there.

 

I don't think the break up ends there, according to twitter it was also funny and that clip was not funny. I want Felicity to be like "You're right….I'm Sorry….Can I borrow your jet?"

 

Two things tho: As a VP, wouldn't she have accesses to a company jet? And, if you don't want your current to think something is going on you may want to mention the other parties that are going. I'm just saying.

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Yeah, you know, I can already say that I'm basically going to be flying so high tonight that afterward, I won't really care how it all went down. But now, while I'm still semi-rational, I will say that having four people (so far) tell Felicity that she loves Oliver before she finally brings herself to say it is NOT IDEAL. Particularly when two of those people are the personification of evil, and one of them is Ray. I wish it had only been Donna who said it, if anyone had to. And I absolutely wish Ra's didn't tell her to go to Oliver. I'm positive it won't be narratively necessary for him to do that, because I'm sure she would have done that on her own, right?

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Weren't the EPs going on and on all season about Felicity making a choice between the two men?  I mean, obviously her heart wasn't in it, but Ray just basically made the choice for her.  That whole storyline was such a fucking waste of time.

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The clip cuts off before she responds but really it could stop there and I would be fine. The break up was something I needed to happen but wasn't really interested in watching so I'm good. It is a parallel to Oliver and Sara like we thought.

 

I will say this, as much as I hate the 'tell her how she feels' I liked the way BR played it. It was soft and understated and he totally mentions 'Jello' which I love. Seriously dude if you had just toned it down a few notches. 

Yeah I totally agree. I've enjoyed Palmer these last few eps + on the flash, maybe just because I knew the end was near.

 

But I agree with SonofaBiscuit, this definitely isn't a choice.  This was Felicity TRYING with someone else and her heart isn't in it, but not being able to say it on her own, which I hate.  

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Oh just for funsies I'll go with the dialogue tease being Felicity. Didn't EBR say she might have to sacrifice her life? I am still curious as to how she stands up to Ra's.

Or perhaps she says it to Oliver. He tells her not to do something. She does it anyway. He makes her "pay" for her betrayal.

Well life doesn't have to mean physical life, it could also be giving up her name and so forth (like Oliver) and become someone else, maybe she chooses to give up her life to be with Oliver in NP... and I think it's official I have read waaay!! too many NP Olicity fics with that theme.

 

ETA: I don't see what the problem is with Ray doing the breaking up... Sara did the same thing last year. I don't see it as Ray telling Felicity she's in-love with Oliver, but rather stating a true fact. she is In-love with Oliver.. No one had any issues with Mama Smoak saying the exact same thing last episode, or when Diggle pointed it out in the season premiere. Ray have every right to end a relationship he's in and the mature way to end a relationship (in my opinion) is to tell the truth, the truth is? Ray is breaking up with Felicity because he realized he's not the one she's in-love with.

Edited by foreverevolving
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"I choose you, Ray."  *sleeps with Oliver 2 hours later*  What a mess that would be!  I hate how the Ray/Felicity thing concluded, and I wish that the writers had given Felicity a bit of time before sleeping with Oliver, but it is what it is.  I don't get why they did it this way, but I don't really like Ray, so it doesn't make me irate or anything like that.

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I think they're probably doing it too to make it fit with their "star-crossed lovers" idea. What's sadder than Felicity walking away from one guy who loves her to be with the guy she loves only to say goodbye to him? BECAUSE WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

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The scene at the end of Broken Arrow and this clips really makes me think that Brandon Routh is better than so much of what they've written for Ray.

 

I'm worried that the episode won't live up to my very high expectations.

 

 

Two things tho: As a VP, wouldn't she have accesses to a company jet? And, if you don't want your current to think something is going on you may want to mention the other parties that are going. I'm just saying.

Why tell him that there are other people going and break up a beautiful good-bye?  I hate that Felicity is crying again . Aaargh!

 

Taking the jet would got thousands of dollars in fuel costs alone and it would be for a personal trip. I don't think a VP has that kind of authority, or at least she shouldn't.

Edited by statsgirl
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Don't throw things at me...I think the triangle has always played as Felicity choosing Oliver.    He just wouldn't choose her back which is why she attempted to move on.  The only time she didn't choose him was the end of 3.12.  After her hook-up with Ray it became about if you had only chosen me over the Arrow.  She probably has developed some feelings for Ray which might have blossomed into more if she had moved out of Oliver's orbit.  Even though Oliver is about to be officially out of her orbit - or so the characters think - I hope this is the official romantic break and after this they are just friends/co-heroes.  Ray does let the team operate from Palmer Technologies.

 

On another subject, what is the likelihood of Ra's using the Lazarus Pit on Oliver?  It changes you "In your soul".  This might explain why Oliver might succumb to Ra's orders and becomes Evil!Oliver.  It could also relate to Lazarus Pitting having ongoing repercussions into S4 and not just with Thea.  Oliver seems strong minded enough to be able to resist casual brainwashing.    

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Don't throw things at me...I think the triangle has always played as Felicity choosing Oliver.    He just wouldn't choose her back which is why she attempted to move on. 

ITA.  The EPs gave her a choice, a charming billionaire who was emotionally available and promoted her at work, and a brooding Oliver who wasn't.  She tried to love the former but couldn't because she loves the latter too much.

 

Ra's using the Lazarus Pit on Oliver to brainwash him makes sense, from a story-telling point of view. But it just confirms my impression that Ra's himself is coo coo for Cocoa Puffs.

Edited by statsgirl
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On another subject, what is the likelihood of Ra's using the Lazarus Pit on Oliver?  It changes you "In your soul".  This might explain why Oliver might succumb to Ra's orders and becomes Evil!Oliver.  It could also relate to Lazarus Pitting having ongoing repercussions into S4 and not just with Thea.  Oliver seems strong minded enough to be able to resist casual brainwashing.

Oooh. This could work as the cliffhanger tonight.

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ITA.  The EPs gave her a choice, a charming billionaire who was emotionally available and promoted her at work, and a brooding Oliver who wasn't.  She tried to love the former but couldn't because she loves the latter too much.

 

But that's the point. Felicity isn't actively making the choice. She isn't going to Ray's office and saying, "Ray, I need your plane because I'm going somewhere with Oliver to help him." And Ray says, "Oh..." And she says, "Yes. I am so sorry that things happened this way, but the thing is, I still have feelings for him, and I tried to move on but I can't." Etc., etc.

 

She doesn't get to be the one to say these things. She doesn't assert herself. She keeps trying to hedge her bets, to not make a choice at all, and basically stays passive long enough that Ray has to break up with her. Add that to Ra's telling her to go to Oliver, and it's just piling on a bunch of things that make this "choice" unsatisfying for me personally. 

 

But hey, if she admitted that? If that was a part of her talk with Oliver, to say, "you know people keep telling me how I feel about you and I kept pushing it down and denying it, but when even Ra's Al Ghul was more willing to see my feelings than I was? That was when I realized how ridiculous it was, blah blah." Then I'd probably end up okay with it.

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Crazy talk: 

 

I'm going to laugh so hard I cry if it turns out that Ra's has been playing Oliver and he doesn't want him to be his heir at all, he's just trying to get Oliver out of the way because he wants to do some down and dirty business in Starling City (why, I do not know) or has some nefarious higher purpose. I wonder if he'll tell Oliver the truth at the end of tonight's episode right before he kills him so he'll go LP crazy and turn villain and go and destroy what's left of his operation in SC (hence touching the Diggles in a personal way). Bonus points if Malcolm is in on it somehow. 

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I was thinking last night as I was trying to fall asleep (thanks brain!) that I bet Laurel will first use the canary cry when protecting Nyssa. Hope Nyssa has some earplugs around. 

 

While I like parallels as I think they can enhance a story, it's clear this show overly relies on them. Other than Sara dying, how many of us have predicted this season down to a T based on what happened last season. Same story, different character permutations, and that's just lazy writing. 

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I'm wondering about this Canary Cry because Cisco said he increased its range and upped the decibel level but gave her no instructions on how to not blow out her own eardrums and those of the people who she'd like to not deafen for life. 

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I'm wondering about this Canary Cry because Cisco said he increased its range and upped the decibel level but gave her no instructions on how to not blow out her own eardrums and those of the people who she'd like to not deafen for life. 

 

Forever worried about each and every dog in Starling City go I.

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Does anyone know about any interviews being released?

 

For the Canary Cry to be used as a regular weapon, Laurel would need special gear, Oliver would need special gear, every citizen of SC would need special gear and the bad guys would need to be skipped.

 

Watch the BC get sued one day.

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So Oliver survived a stab through his body because of his strong will - but then Ra's expects Oliver's will not to be strong enough to withstand a brainwashing?  What is Ra's thinking?  I guess it's like Goldilocks & the 3 Bears.  The man who fulfills the prophecy to become the new Ra's must have a "just right" will - not too weak and not too strong.  (eye roll)

 

So Ra's disinherited Nyssa as his Heir.  He maybe also denied Nyssa's request to use the LP to save Sara (I'm fanwanking).  But now the LOA is going after Nyssa?  That makes no sense - unless it's a pre-emptive strike (or it's for unauthorized training of a non-member).

 

I'm still befuddled by the whole Laurel concluding that she's not her sister and will be her own kind of hero.  She's still wearing Sara's wig and (backup?) Canary costume.  She's using a moniker that's a variation of her sister's moniker (Canary, BC).  Now she's using an upgraded version of her sister's sonic device.  How is that not being her sister?

 

From the Comicbook.com preview...

However, the real and true star of this episode is Emily Bett Rickards. Felicity has clearly been a fan favorite since her introduction, and this week she’s probably going to win over some holdouts. Emily’s shifts between Felicity’s humor and heartbreak, as well as her awkwardness and fierceness, are so seamless that it seems like Rickards is playing six characters in one, but you never doubt that each and every one of them is Felicity. Every moment she has in this episode was stunning.

Now my expectations are super high... hope I'm not disappointed.

 

From the Eonline scoop...

"For what it's worth–and I'm not objective—I feel like Felicity's been developing quite a bit of backbone this year," executive producer Marc Guggenheim tells us. "We certainly developed her as someone who's not afraid to stand up to Oliver and show some backbone. That's her character journey in many ways, her developing herself outside of her romantic relationships."

Is MG watching the same show?  Felicity has always had backbone and she's always stood up to Oliver.  This season is when her character regressed into a weepy, clingy girlfriend/prop for Ray Palmer.  Hope the remaining four episodes give us the pre-Ray Felicity.

Edited by tv echo
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Maseo is talking to Diggle about grief. And since this show likes parallels and I know Diggle is going to be hit by whatever is coming, Makes me worried about Akio and Baby Sara...

I didn't watch but is this because of the producers preview?

Edited by tarotx
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I'm still befuddled by the whole Laurel concluding that she's not her sister and will be her own kind of hero.  She's still wearing Sara's wig and (backup?) Canary costume.  She's using a moniker that's a variation of her sister's moniker (Canary, BC).  Now she's using an upgraded version of her sister's sonic device.  How is that not being her sister?

 

I've skipped a bunch of episodes this year and most of Laurel's scenes - has this happened in show? Because I'm thinking maybe Laurel's identity crisis ended with her deciding that being her sister is fine. Sara stole her life so she's okay with stealing Sara's life. 

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Does anyone know about any interviews being released?

 

I could wrong, but I've got the impression that they didn't do any interviews for this episode, other than the Q&A with Guggenheim after the episode screening.

Edited by dancingnancy
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I don't mind Felicity not being the one to end things. I I never thought Felicity lacked agency ever and I don't think Ray pointing out what he thinks is true is the same thing as mansplaining her feelings to her.

Ray still has the right to dump her if he thinks she loves someone else. It's his opinion. And besides everyone tells everyone else in this universe how they feel or should feel about someone else.

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I'm still trying to figure out the timeline of things. Felicity still looks wrecked with Ra's and that doesn't make sense to me if she arrives looking put together, looks washed out and then is put together again for Oliver. She is wearing the same clothes, so it just looks weird.

 

We are all assuming Ra's is the one who pushes Felicity to Oliver based on the line in the promo and the tweets about what Ra's says about her relationship with Oliver.  But what if the conversation with Ra's is after and the conversation that pushes Felicity is with Laurel. We know they are supposed to have a 'fantastic' scene and a conversation about what Felicity is feeling (or something).

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We are all assuming Ra's is the one who pushes Felicity to Oliver based on the line in the promo and the tweets about what Ra's says about her relationship with Oliver.  But what if the conversation with Ra's is after and the conversation that pushes Felicity is with Laurel. We know they are supposed to have a 'fantastic' scene and a conversation about what Felicity is feeling (or something).

 

I thought that the woman from Seat42 who was answering questions about the ep said that the scene between Laurel and Felicity wasn't about her feelings (or about Oliver, I can't remember)? Could be that she says something unrelated that gets Felicity thinking, IDK. 

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I thought that the woman from Seat42 who was answering questions about the ep said that the scene between Laurel and Felicity wasn't about her feelings (or about Oliver, I can't remember)? Could be that she says something unrelated that gets Felicity thinking, IDK. 

Yes, that Voight lady answered someone's tweet asking of the Felicity/Laurel scene was about Fel's feelings for Oliver and she said no.

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I know she answered something in the negative to the Felicity and Laurel scene. I want to say the question was something like 'Does Laurel give Felicity advice on Oliver?' to which she said no. I think it could be something that does push Felicity.

 

I don't know if they would ever do that tho. Oliver and Laurel shippers would be pissed.

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In response to someone's question above, it was the ET Online article that said there was a very good reason that Felicity hasn't said ILY to Oliver yet...

If you've also been wondering why Felicity hasn't uttered those three magical words to Oliver yet, there's a very good reason.
Edited by tv echo
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In response to someone's question above, it was the ET Online article that said there was a very good reason that Felicity hasn't said ILY to Oliver yet...

 

My first twisted thought was it was because she'd injected him with some weird nanotech or had been conditioning him to respond to "I love you," to put some kind of "overthrow the League" plan into motion, haha. 

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Is MG watching the same show? Felicity has always had backbone and she's always stood up to Oliver. This season is when her character regressed into a weepy, clingy girlfriend/prop for Ray Palmer. Hope the remaining four episodes give us the pre-Ray Felicity.

So. Much. This.

Sometimes I swear I need some of the highly hallucinogenic drugs MG is consuming. S3 Felicity has been the very epitome of the clingy girlfriend accessory. She was WAY stronger and more assertive/independent in S2 and never took Oliver's bullshit. Fast forward to S3 and not only did she give in to Ray's stalkerish hounding but she also allowed him to manipulate her starting with that pathetic Pretty Woman episode.

Hopefully now that Ray will dump her she can get back to actually having some involvement in the A plot once again. Her standing up to Ra's is a great step in the right direction. I think I'm almost as excited for that scene as I am for the Olicity sex.

Yes, that Voight lady answered someone's tweet asking of the Felicity/Laurel scene was about Fel's feelings for Oliver and she said no.

Thank God. All I ever asked for is for them never to discuss any aspect of sharing Oliver's you-know-what because "Gross!"

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