Spoiler Discussion Thread

[TVHappy9463]

Perhaps Tatsu is unavailable. And unlike Oliver, she was stabbed and left to bleed out on some nice carpetting not a magical bed of snow. Perhaps they should have brought some magical snow & herbs back just in case. From a none kidding perspective, my clinical guess is that Thea is going to flatline & die or be closer to death than Oliver was. How that is possible... I give you the mantra of the season because the plot wants it so.

Thank you for the response. I like the mantra and will continue to repeat it for the rest of the season.  "because the plot wants it so" very pithy

Edited April 20, 2015 by TVHappy9463

[kismet]

I'm torn because I think Malcolm has a massive masterplan that will explain all of his actions, but also if he does that then he will have nothing left for other seasons. So as much as I want him as a big bad this season, I just don't think that is their plan. I feel like they are gonna hold onto Malcolm for a little longer before they make him the big bad again. But seriously, what have they done with Malcolm? Nothing makes sense about most of his actions either as evil or repentant.

[Morena]

explication: a person on the blog explained me that the photo I posted, the archer,  is an old photo. is Colton stunt

Edited April 20, 2015 by Morena

[statsgirl]

I'm torn because I think Malcolm has a massive masterplan that will explain all of his actions, but also if he does that then he will have nothing left for other seasons. So as much as I want him as a big bad this season,

Robert Dougherty at TMN really wanted that too, or at least for there to be some underlying plan for Thea killing Sara (not even professional TV reviewers understand this season).  He asked on tumblr and MG replied, saying that there is nothing more to the plan than we've seen on screen. Part of me is still hoping that MG is not telling the truth and there's more to MM than what's met the eye so far but it's hard to put much faith into it.

 

Are we ever going to get a reason for Ra's fixation on Oliver? He's just not that into you, dude. This ridiculous insistence that he take over the LOA makes no sense for a guy who's lived this long and been so successful being a bad guy. Even the prophecy is dumb. Oliver survived because Ra's didn't give him a fatal wound and one of the LOA betrayed his order by getting his ex to nurse Oliver back to health. He should've given a flesh wound to Batman and seen where that took him. This is just a massively convoluted plan to make a dude work for you who's not interested. And if Malcolm is behind all this as well, that's even more dumb. 

Instead of thinking of it was "whoever lives this prophecy will become the new Ra's", trying thinking of it as "the person who becomes the new Ra's will have survived being stabbed by the current one without the aid of the Lazarus Pit".  It makes is slightly less ridiculous, because it's a description of Oliver rather than "any person who does this will become the next Ra's".   I'm trying to think of it as Ra's religion to follow the prophecy. People believe all sorts of things that don't make sense to outsiders when it's in their religion.

 

Still doesn't really make sense though.  I want someone to explain why Ra's would want an unwilling Heir, especially one who doesn't believe in killing or the League's code. Maybe Felicity can demand an answer.

[catrox14]

Oh good gods.  PLEASE can we have Bearded!Zombie!Tommy.....because good grief....../swoon

[Genki]

It disappointing that there isn't more in show reason to why Sara had to die....basically it comes down to so laurel could be BC.

Bearded Zombie Tommy got the win!!! He is hot!

[tv echo]

BERLANTI: ... The end of this season is very much a punctuation mark on the first three seasons. Third season will feel like the end of a trilogy, with elements and pieces coming together.

I really hope the EPs didn't set up seasons 1-3 to be like the 'Gwen Stacy Era' for Oliver.

 

If Oliver and Felicity get married, and Thea becomes sidekick Speedy, while Diggle remains part of Team Arrow, it could be like the Fantastic Four (family team dynamic).  I'd prefer that instead of adhering to the GA comics version of Oliver as a serial cheater.

 

Here's my list of contrived/ridiculous reasons for the upcoming wedding:

 

1. Oliver and Felicity get married to improve his chances of being elected Mayor of Starling City.
2. Oliver and Felicity get married because she becomes pregnant.
3. Oliver and Felicity get married so that she can access his remaining assets in Starling City.
4. Oliver and Felicity get married because of another prophecy that a single Heir will not live to become Ra's.
5. Ray and Felicity get married because he's not an American citizen and needs a green card to stay in the U.S.
6. Ray and Felicity get married to facilitate transfer of ownership of the Palmer Tech company to her.
7. Nyssa and Sara get married so that Nyssa can become legal conservator of crazy Sara's affairs.
8. Nyssa and Laurel get married because Nyssa is not an American citizen and needs a green card to stay in the U.S.
9. Oliver and Thea get married to become co-Heirs in order to fulfill the prophecy because they both survived the blade of Ra's (like Ancient Egyptian rulers who were married siblings).
10. Oliver and Laurel get married "because comics" (hey, it's just as plausible as Laurel becoming the BC because of her name).

Edited April 20, 2015 by tv echo

[Soulfire]

Please don't throw things at me because I hate the idea as much as the rest of you, but if Oliver is truly brainwashed/under a very strong mindspell, I could still see them going the comics route and have Oliver marry Nyssa/Female League Member.

 

Ugh.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Soulfire

[dtissagirl]

So the cargo plane scene is Oliver, Nyssa and Ra's. WHAT IS GOING OOOON.

[Angel12d]

I think I'd actually prefer it if Oliver married Nyssa or someone from the league, especially after MG said on tumblr he wasn't sure if the marriage would continue in s4 because he hadn't decided. That's not what I want with Oliver and Felicity and I'm sorry but the two of them getting married now is too damn fast. I can't see a way it would end well. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

So the cargo plane scene is Oliver, Nyssa and Ra's. WHAT IS GOING OOOON.

Maybe the virus comes into play in present day, and a government entity swoops in and makes it worth Ra's while to let them take Oliver away, since he has some experience with it?

That's pretty lame, but it's the best I could come up with, haha

[Soulfire]

I can see it now: Oliver heads a mission to retrieve Nyssa to Nanda Parbat, then Ra's reveals they are to be married, followed by extended Former Team Arrow + Tatsu going to Nanda Parbat in 3x22 to save Oliver(/stop the marriage).

Can someone please tell me how wrong I am?

[Morrigan2575]

I don't care if he is a villain, Ra's trying to force a gay woman to marry a straight man because he needs a "proper heir" is repellent to me on so many levels I don't think I could ever forgive this show if it went there.  Not only is it massively insulting that apparently a female heir is somehow not worthy compared to the guy that got a major rescue in order to survive the dual.  But to add the fact that they're essentially denouncing homosexuality as something unworthy and that can be fixed by forced marriage/rape...the connotations are repulsive (to me).  Villain or not, I would in fact blame the writers/producers for purporting that in their story telling.  I don't care if everyone on the show reacts horribly to the news it's that repulsive to me.

 

I just really, really hope they don't go there.  If they do, I really really hope they get raked over the coals by every feminist and LGBT organization there is.

 

ETA: Can't even be bothered to look up a synonym...

Edited April 20, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[tarotx]

Poor Nyssa :( When will Sara come back? Even if it's just a pull from time and most go back. At least get Nyssa out of the fate of Schemy guys like Her dad and brainwashed Ollie. I'm sick to my stomache. I'm feeling like the rumored Diggle and never being able to forgive Ollie :x

Maybe Nyssa and Ollie have a plan and she will take a dagger or small Bow&Arrow and off Ras at the wedding. I can have hope -right?

Edited April 20, 2015 by tarotx

[catrox14]

I don't care if he is a villain, Ra's trying to force a gay woman to marry a straight man because he needs a "proper heir" is repellent to me on so many levels I don't think I could ever forgive this show if it went there.  Not only is it massively insulting that apparently a female heir is somehow not worthy compared to the guy that got a major rescue in order to survive the dual.  But to add the fact that they're essentially denouncing homosexuality as something unworthy and that can be fixed by forced marriage/rape...the connotations are repulsive (to me).  Villain or not, I would in fact blame the writers/producers for purporting that in their story telling.  I don't care if everyone on the show reacts horribly to the news it's that repulsive to me.

 

ETA: Can't even be bothered to look up a synonym...

 

Since Berlanti is gay, I can't fathom he would be letting this SL if it comes to pass be viewed as a good thing or that it's something someone should do.

 

It would IMO be portrayed as a negative thing because it's through coercion by a villain to get something said villain wants. Ra's is already a sexist dickbag. Oliver and Nyssa getting married for the sake of getting a heir is a evil plot and it IMO would be received as such not as an endorsement of that viewpoint.

[Sakura12]

I could see them doing that, since we've seen more of Nyssa's relationship with Laurel then with Sara. I think they just put Sara and Nyssa together to check that off their list. Here's a gay couple but you won't ever see their relationship, instead see more scenes of Nyssa hanging around Sara's straight sister. 

[dtissagirl]

Even discounting the disgusting homophobic tone of this -- I honestly cannot see what are the stakes for Nyssa to accept an arranged marriage. Ra's can threaten to kill people Oliver loves so he's forced to do it, but what does Nyssa even have to lose anymore?

[Morrigan2575]

Since Berlanti is gay, I can't fathom he would be letting this SL if it comes to pass be viewed as a good thing or that it's something someone should do.

 

It would IMO be portrayed as a negative thing because it's through coercion by a villain to get something said villain wants. Ra's is already a sexist dickbag. Oliver and Nyssa getting married for the sake of getting a heir is a evil plot and it IMO would be received as such not as an endorsement of that viewpoint.

As I already said, I don't care how it's portrayed I don't care if Joe West jumps in a drops a truth bomb like he did to the Dr on The Flash.  The sheer fact that they would even consider putting it in the story is repulsive to me.   Which is why, I'm very hopeful that this is nothing more than Olicity fandom panic.  

Edited April 20, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[looptab]

The more they say the more confused I get..what's the deal with that plane? Bet you we are all imagining worst case scenarios and instead it's just a lame 'closing the chapter' scene with Ra's al Ghul, ahah

[tarotx]

Lots if religious folk are anti gay and will do things that force their children to "be" straight. It's beyond sick but it happens. As long as the show deals with it with the gravitas an important subject like this deserves I can deal with it. I hate it though. I hate parents messing with their kids over something natural:(

I do still have hope this nonsense wedding isn't Nyssa and Ollie at all :(

[kismet]

Please don't throw things at me because I hate the idea as much as the rest of you, but if Oliver is truly brainwashed/under a very strong mindspell, I could still see them going the comics route and have Oliver marry Nyssa/Female League Member.

 

Ugh.

So long as it is not Nyssa, I think because of comics & brainwashing I could see how for plot they would do that. Morrigan2575 has highlighted many of the valid reasons, I would be VERY against the show choosing to put Nyssa in that position. I think its a good theory you have. But I think its a dumb plot, why bother having a marriage between O & rando? Its just a waste of time. EvilOliver needs a wife is just silly. They have so many other plots (MM, Ras obsession, alpha/omega virus) that they could grow or finish up. But the writers seem to be attracted to dumb plots this year so its possible. Gosh I hope they move away from just plot for plot next year as their motivating factor.

[Sakura12]

Since I'm not an Olicity shipper everything I've read about the finale sounds lame. If Malcolm's still alive I'll be pissed and Ra's has already proven himself to be the lamest big villain to date on this show. What's happening on the Flash and this show, kind of make me want the spin off to not get picked up. CL and VG deserve a well written show. 

[Angel12d]

I'm expecting the virus from the flashbacks to appear in present time because otherwise, what the hell was the point of the flashbacks this year? I feel like they've been not much of anything, even though I've enjoyed the parts with Maseo, Tatsu and Akio. It's just that the flashbacks usually parallel, on some level, the present day and I'm not seeing it yet.

[tarotx]

So Ra's whole motivation will be to make Nyssa straight and Using prophecy as shield? It is evil for sure.

Nyssa's going to need years and years of therapy...

[apinknightmare]

Since all signs point to Ra's wanting Nyssa dead since he finally got his new heir to sign up for the assassin business, I think if Ra's wants to marry Oliver off for an heir, it'll be to a previously unmentioned daughter or to a high-standing female League member, not Nyssa.

[Morrigan2575]

I don't even understand why Ra's would want an heir.  As we've already seen, he's not the Original Ra's he's just the most recent.  He even told Thea that, last week.  Ra's is a title not a person or even a blood inheritance.   It seems to get passed to the most worthy or to whatever idiot survives a prophecy. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Carrie Ann]

I don't understand how Oliver being on what looks like some sort of high-tech airplane with Ra's and Nyssa in the finale translates into a wedding between them? That's like...the last thing that makes me think. I'm not saying that it's not happening (though I do doubt it) but the plane scene doesn't indicate that to me at all.

 

ETA: Okay, I read this thread too fast, and it seemed like there was a connection between the plane scene discussion and the O/N wedding discussion. But if that's not the reason for the speculation, then did I miss some other spoiler that suddenly made this seem more likely again?

Edited April 20, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[Velocity23]

 

I don't understand how Oliver being on what looks like some sort of high-tech airplane with Ra's and Nyssa in the finale translates into a wedding between them? That's like...the last thing that makes me think. I'm not saying that it's not happening (though I do doubt it) but the plane scene doesn't indicate that to me at all.

I thought i was the only who didnt make the connection. I was feeling really stupid because of it. And it was my recollection that the set took quite a while to built. And the city hall scenes were shot at the begining of the shooting for 3x23.

The plane set was finished like 2 days before they finished shooting. And it seems they had a lot of stunts shooting by the end of the shooting days.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Velocity23

[kismet]

But here is what I don't understand... isn't Oliver the new heir? Why does Ras care if he procreates? Isn't he dying soon because the pools don't work for him, so all he needs is Oliver, not a biological heir. He's already proven that myth & prophecy is more important than genetics. So I can't see him forcing OQ to get married. I don't know I'm getting a little tired of people being so obsessed with babies & pregnancies as a reason for the marriage. I mean no offense they are all good soap-esque theories. But I really can't see the show bringing in babies full time. Its just not practical. I think the only reason Diggle had a kid was to somehow parallel Akio. So whatever bad happens between D/O will somehow be linked to something with Akio in fb.

 

What I could see though, now that I have to think outside the box is OQ marrying someone to protect them from the LoA. Perhaps Mai or that random LoA member they highlighted in the comics & Ras wine/dine tour. Similar to how the Outlander wedding came to be, to protect one of the characters from the evil villain. That would allow the wedding to not continue into s4. Also because MG is a troll. I could see him emphasizing marriage, when in all actuality there is never going to be a marriage. Just a wedding & annulment. Still falls in my dumb plot category for this show, considering the timing in the last 3-4 episodes & esp after O/F sex. But the writers like their dumb this year.

[apinknightmare]

I don't understand how Oliver being on what looks like some sort of high-tech airplane with Ra's and Nyssa in the finale translates into a wedding between them? That's like...the last thing that makes me think. I'm not saying that it's not happening (though I do doubt it) but the plane scene doesn't indicate that to me at all.

I thought the plane and marriage spec were two different things?

Anyway, the plane makes me think that Oliver's gonna get out of his warith al Ghul commitment because he made a commitment to a government-sponsored organization that may or may not be slightly less shady than the LoA. But that's not really badass, I guess, but I have no other idea for what it could be.

[looptab]

And the city hall scenes were shot at the begining of the shooting for 3x23.

I think two different things are being debated, if not, I'm not following either, ahah. But what are these city hall scenes? I'm blanking out on those, do we know who's involved?

[Carrie Ann]

I thought the plane and marriage spec were two different things?

Anyway, the plane makes me think that Oliver's gonna get out of his warith al Ghul commitment because he made a commitment to a government-sponsored organization that may or may not be slightly less shady than the LoA. But that's not really badass, I guess, but I have no other idea for what it could be.

 

Ha, yeah, I edited my post because reading all the responses at once made it feel like they were connected (b/c otherwise I didn't see where the O/N wedding discussion came from). But yeah, I agree that there's some big governement/military/international agency situation happening with that plane.

[Velocity23]

 

I think two different things are being debated, if not, I'm not following either, ahah. But what are these city hall scenes? I'm blanking out on those, do we know who's involved?

There was a pic of Stephen and an actor in LOA garb.

 

 

[tarotx]

The Plane scene with the 3 of them just brought back fears that Ra's plans for Nyssa. Rather the wedding was there or earlier. I figured it would be someplace holy looking and not spacey. I didn't know about a city hall scene.

[dtissagirl]

Anyway, the plane makes me think that Oliver's gonna get out of his warith al Ghul commitment because he made a commitment to a government-sponsored organization that may or may not be slightly less shady than the LoA. But that's not really badass, I guess, but I have no other idea for what it could be.

 

This gave me another thought. What if Oliver makes a deal with Amanda Waller in present time? So she can help him out of the LoA? I don't know what kind of deal, but could that be the reason for Dig feeling betrayed?

Edited April 20, 2015 by dancingnancy

[looptab]

^^Thank you! Completely forgot about those pics :)

[Danny Franks]

Honestly, I think the idea of Ra's forcing Oliver and Nyssa into a mutually unwanted marriage would have the potential to be great fun. Nyssa clearly expressing her disgust at the idea, Oliver being stoically accepting but horrified, Ra's being a gross old homophobe, everyone else just being uncomfortable and weirded out? It could actually add an element of the fun this show seemingly lost some time late in the second season.

 

Of course, it would be easily repaired as well, because neither party would want to stay in such a marriage once Ra's/the League was no longer able to enforce it.

 

As an idea, it's about a million times better than forcing Oliver and Felicity into a marriage before they've ever even been on a successful date.

[catrox14]

Okay I feel stupid but is Ra's actually in Nanda Parbat with Oliver?

[calliope1975]

Lots if religious folk are anti gay and will do things that force their children to "be" straight. It's beyond sick but it happens. As long as the show deals with it with the gravitas an important subject like this deserves I can deal with it. I hate it though. I hate parents messing with their kids over something natural:(

 

This is the same show that refused to call Sara bisexual. There's no way they would handle this topic with sensitivity. I hope Ra's issues with Nyssa are addressed, but I have no faith in this writing team that they would address her sexuality with care. I really, really hope it's just a rumor. Based on the previous episodes of this season, I'll go ahead and prepare myself for the worst.

 

And yes, if it is true, I hope they are lambasted by everyone, everywhere.

[dtissagirl]

According to TV Line spoilers I just posted in the Spoilers Only thread, the wedding is in 322.

Edited April 20, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Velocity23]

So its most likely Roy & Thea. With Colton returning in 3x22.

[Starfish35]

Yeah that's what I thought. I don't know why they would marry them off if Colton's leaving, but if it was Olicity, I'd expect it to be in the finale.

[Chaser]

Do we have anything on Diggle and Felicity in the finale?

 

IIRC, we have SA/MN/KL filming and KL/KC/PB filming. I know we have the porsche spoiler for EBR, but I'm more curious about action wise for both.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, I don't get why they would Marry Thea/Roy off since Roy has left the show.  Unless Thea is going with him and Willa is leaving Arrow after S3? I guess MG's comment about not sure if it's going to be around in S4 could mean they get married in 322 and then an off screen divorce in S4 or over the summer.  That seems dumb to me but I it's certainly possible 

 

Do we have anything on Diggle and Felicity in the finale?

IIRC, we have SA/MN/KL filming and KL/KC/PB filming. I know we have the porsche spoiler for EBR, but I'm more curious about action wise for both.

 

David was filming with WH and maybe that's the same shoot that had KC/KL. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

Tie in comics development!

[chaos is welcome]

Yeah that's what I thought. I don't know why they would marry them off if Colton's leaving, but if it was Olicity, I'd expect it to be in the finale.

How would that even work w Colton being off the show and out of starling? Unless perhaps we get a. Team arrow doesn't retyrn to starling/ thea goes w roy or b. Thea becomes the new ras and runs the loa with daddy and roy.

Stranger, stupider things have happened. Sigh.

[catrox14]

This is the same show that refused to call Sara bisexual. There's no way they would handle this topic with sensitivity. I hope Ra's issues with Nyssa are addressed, but I have no faith in this writing team that they would address her sexuality with care. I really, really hope it's just a rumor. Based on the previous episodes of this season, I'll go ahead and prepare myself for the worst.

 

And yes, if it is true, I hope they are lambasted by everyone, everywhere.

 

See I guess to me this is different than not overtly stating through dialogue the word 'bisexual'. To me , it was presented as a matter of fact in Sara's life since we saw her have on screen kisses with both Nyssa and Oliver.

 

For me, if there is a forced/contrived marriage between Oliver and Nyssa, the fact that Ra's is the one pushing it and trying to make it happen makes a bad thing from the get go. Meaning the framing of it as part of a villain's plot is the condemnation of it.

Edited April 20, 2015 by catrox14

[Sunshine]

I don't know who is getting married or why but the penultimate episode makes more sense to me than the finale since this is supposed to be an action adventure more than a standard soapy drama. Ra's has to be stopped somehow and they need to set up S4 villain. GB said something about a climactic showdown IIRC.

CH could be coming back to be the groom or he could be coming back to be in attendance. If the spoilers hadn't said wedding and marriage Thea & Roy would make more sense to me. Or if we knew WH was leaving. But then again, MG said they hadn't decided whether it would carry over into S4. Which brings me to why? What is the point? How does Roy Harper marry anyone since he's legally dead? (I don't know why I think that would stop this show. LOL!)I guess marriage doesn't really sound like CLOSURE if they break up over the summer. Heck it doesn't sound like closure even if they don't break-up! A nice in-person goodbye seems warranted though. YMMV

[Chaser]

Wedding spoiler during sweeps. Dropping hints about Olicity being the couple. Its just for ratings. That's why they don't even know if it will carry over to S4.

[apinknightmare]

Wasn't Roy wearing a mechanics uniform in the BTS pic that was posted? He'd have to be really stupid to come back to SC, so I'm guessing Thea goes to him (with the help of the team, I guess), so I don't think his appearance is for a wedding, and if it is then it's probably going to be an elopement. Although what the point of that would be, idk. And the way the EPs talk about it like it's a cap to a 3 year love story makes me think they're saying their goodbyes, not getting married.

The title of the ep is about love, so it could be a love-based marriage (Roy and Thea or Oliver and Felicity), or it could be a non-love based marriage (Oliver and whoever from the League) in some kind of scheme to get back to the people he actually loves.

The only way an Oliver/Nyssa marriage wouldn't anger me is if they entered into it willingly together to trick/fool Ra's. Why exactly they would need to do that to accomplish anything idk.

Edited April 20, 2015 by apinknightmare