Spoiler Discussion Thread

[blixie]

 

But what if it turns out at the end of S3 that our protagonist embraces being "Oliver Queen" AND "AL-SAHEEM",

 

What happens is I will tap out.

[tarotx]

Prophecies are never cut and dry so Thea could be what it means. Plus this is a TV show so anything is possible any way. RA did say his little prayer over her at the end. It was almost enunciated like a spell Imo.

With Ra killing Thea, he fills the blood oath by spilling Merlin blood and revenges Sara's death. He is an Odd non scary dude but his word gets done. I wonder how that will play out over the last few episodes.

Edited April 16, 2015 by tarotx

[apinknightmare]

Also, I really hope someone is at the hospital with Oliver when Thea flatlines. 

 

I just want someone to wrap the dude in a hug and never let go, goodness.

[Kordi]

Regarding the pending wedding and Felicity's catch of the bouquet... I don't want to sound to pessimistic, but can we definitely rule out a Raylicity wedding? Even if they break up in 3x20 (in order to to allow for Olicity sexy times in that very episode), what if "Evil!Oliver" in 3x21 is SO EVIL that he not only hurts Diggle emotionally, but also Felicity... driving her back into Ray's arms? Even though Ray will be on the spin-off, to the best of my knowledge, the spin-off won't start in October together with "Arrow", but some time later. This would allow for Raylicity to continue during the first episodes of S4... I hasten to add that I don't what that AT ALL. I just want to prepare myself for worst case scenarios...

[Carrie Ann]

Also, I really hope someone is at the hospital with Oliver when Thea flatlines. 

 

I just want someone to wrap the dude in a hug and never let go, goodness.

 

I still wonder about Stephen's tweet at the beginning of 320 filming--the direction: "When you see Stephen, go limp." Not sure who that would be, but I think it was the same day as the body-mounted camera shot, so I'm guessing it does happen at the hospital? Malcolm is the only person who would feel Thea's death that personally, but he can't be at the hospital, so the other options are Laurel or Felicity? Could be Malcolm somewhere other than the hospital though.

[dtissagirl]

Okay, grab bag spec.

 

320 - Oliver breaks down in the jet with Felicity. Oliver joins the LoA in exchange for Thea getting LPed. O/F sexytimes, then Dig and Felicity say their good-byes, and come back to SC. No idea what happens to Thea and Malcolm.

 

321 - Three weeks later. LoA comes after Nyssa in SC. Laurel asks Dig and Felicity for help. Twist: Evil!Oliver is maybe leading the LoA strike team?

 

322 - Laurel, Dig and Felicity track Tatsu down and come up with a plan to extract ~Evil!Oliver from the LoA? Did I read that Oliver and Nyssa are in NP in this one?

 

323 - ???

[nksarmi]

Regarding the pending wedding and Felicity's catch of the bouquet... I don't want to sound to pessimistic, but can we definitely rule out a Raylicity wedding? Even if they break up in 3x20 (in order to to allow for Olicity sexy times in that very episode), what if "Evil!Oliver" in 3x21 is SO EVIL that he not only hurts Diggle emotionally, but also Felicity... driving her back into Ray's arms? Even though Ray will be on the spin-off, to the best of my knowledge, the spin-off won't start in October together with "Arrow", but some time later. This would allow for Raylicity to continue during the first episodes of S4... I hasten to add that I don't what that AT ALL. I just want to prepare myself for worst case scenarios...

I had thought that might be the case at one point, but I stopped thinking this with the "I love yous" and apparent sexytimes.  I can't believe Ray who really did love his dead fiancé would settle for being someone's second choice - but maybe it could be a sad, "neither of us could be with our first loves, so lets try to be happy together" kind of thing.

[apinknightmare]

So, I wonder how the next ep goes. 

 

Who finds Thea? If Oliver's walking through the hospital panicked as that BTS cam shot implies, then it seems like he arrives at the hospital once she's already there. Then again, that could be him trying to find her body so he could steal it from the room/morgue/whatever. So, open hospital? Or open in apartment with Malcolm standing there over her body with Oliver, telling Oliver about the LP being able to bring people back to life? 

IDK, anyways. 

 

Thea dies

Oliver entrusts the safety of SC to Laurel and Ray - Felicity and Ray say goodbye AND SAY GOODBYE (<----breakup)

Jet scene where Oliver breaks down and I also break down. Fetal positioning, etc

Arrival in NP

Immediate Lazarus Pitting and Thea hopping out of the LP like a cat out of a bathtub, completely bananapants

Oliver hating himself in the Mood and Brood suite, complete with every fire hazard known to man

SEXXXXXX

After finally tapping that, Felicity's all, "Nuh-uh, sir you are not committing yourself to a League of Assassins," then goes and has a heated stare-off with Ra's. Does he hurt her? Threaten her? Doesn't matter, at this moment she's committing herself to systematically destroying his life. 

Oliver gets branded, D&F get ushered back on the jet? With Thea maybe?

Malcolm stays? 

[Morrigan2575]

Okay, grab bag spec.

 

320 - Oliver breaks down in the jet with Felicity. Oliver joins the LoA in exchange for Thea getting LPed. O/F sexytimes, then Dig and Felicity say their good-byes, and come back to SC. No idea what happens to Thea and Malcolm.

 

321 - Three weeks later. LoA comes after Nyssa in SC. Laurel asks Dig and Felicity for help. Twist: Evil!Oliver is maybe leading the LoA strike team?

 

322 - Laurel, Dig and Felicity track Tatsu down and come up with a plan to extract ~Evil!Oliver from the LoA? Did I read that Oliver and Nyssa are in NP in this one?

 

323 - ???

Pretty sure MM and Thea go back with Dig/Felicity, Oliver is alone with the LoA for 3 weeks. No other way it works with Oliver going Evil if he's got Thea with him, even crazy Thea.

 

322 -MM is with them.  He's in the pictures posted from KC

 

323 - At least some of it is back in SC since we have PB/KC/KL shooting together, it seems

Edited April 16, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[chaos is welcome]

Aaaaaand, I'm out.  The guy who survived five years in hell and came out still wanting to help people is going to be brainwashed into being evil in three weeks.  Way to be stupid and undermining of the "hero."  Between that and Felicity literally hanging all over Ray for God knows how many episodes (I've seen the stills) and still hanging all over him after supposedly realizing she loves Oliver, yeah, right.  That's real love, the kind that makes you want to bang another dude.

 

Fuck these assholes.

This is why I just can't see this. The stupid burns too much. I am beginning to think the bc and tin can SLs were required to fill space/ bc comics/bc spinoff and they stretched a whole lot to make that happen. But I can't imagine them brainwashing oliver and undoing EVERYTHING. The only thing I could see is him faking it or being dipped in lp and going cray for a bit.

[lemotomato]

After watching the NZ promo, I'm wondering if the Olicity sex is Felicity trying to seduce Oliver into changing his mind about joining the LoA? Which makes it even sadder than goodbye sex, IMO.

[chaos is welcome]

I think the bigger question is the theme of identity. Last night Felicity specifically told Oliver that Ra's killed the Arrow and we know that Oliver is going to become Al-Saheem in 321 and that the title for 323 is My Name is Oliver Queen. Now, I totally do not buy the idea that Oliver retires from Vigilanting, that's not the theme of this season, the theme is Oliver coming to terms with being both Oliver Queen and The Arrow. In 301, Oliver killed OQ, he said I can't be this and the Arrow so he chose just The Arrow. Now, Ra's has "killed" the Arrow, so what's left?

Oddly enough I'm actually starting to find Oliver's identity issues interesting.too bad they waited until the last 5 episodes to actually advance that freaking plot.

They're also talking about going bigger in S4. I can't find the quote now but I read it last night and they were talking about going Global and stuff. I really do wonder what they have planned for the end of S3 and S4. I'm getting the impression that Oliver/TA won't return to Starling City (full time? Ever?) and might deal with issues on a global event scale, ARGUS level?

Sorry to post back to back but I just wanted to high five over all of this. This is the first time I have been remotely interested since kc's leaked bc pictures. This is the first time they have given Oliver's identity issues actual credence.

I would love for them not to return to starling, because it would mean we wouldn't have to deal with Laurel anymore. I could also see this coming between dig old oliver, because dig hates how in the grey argus is. Lyla left argus because she couldn't believe in it anymore. I could imagine him being pissed as hell if Oliver decided to collude with Wallar.

Edited April 16, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[tv echo]

Even if the show relocated to Nanda Parbat, Laurel is still a regular cast member.  She's also Nyssa's new BFF and trainee, so likely she'd just move to Nanda Parbat as well.

[FurryFury]

And obviously Felicity will run Oliver through with a sword in time to stop him from awakening Acathla. Working title of the finale: Becoming, Part 3.

 

It's funny because all this talk about how "Everything in my life has been leading me to this point" immediately made me thing about Angelus' speech in BtVS season 2 finale. 

 

I suppose we could still see that Sara really didn't die and Thea will wake up knowing that.

 

I expected LP for both Sara and Thea, but this works for me. Hell, anything to get Sara back, spin-off or no spin-off, would work for me. She deserves a better fate.

[ostentatious]

I think the bigger question is the theme of identity.  Last night Felicity specifically told Oliver that Ra's killed the Arrow and we know that Oliver is going to become Al-Saheem in 321 and that the title for 323 is My Name is Oliver Queen.  Now, I totally do not buy the idea that Oliver retires from Vigilanting, that's not the theme of this season, the theme is Oliver coming to terms with being both Oliver Queen and The Arrow.  In 301, Oliver killed OQ, he said I can't be this and the Arrow so he chose just The Arrow.  Now, Ra's has "killed" the Arrow, so what's left?

 

Oddly enough I'm actually starting to find Oliver's identity issues interesting.too bad they waited until the last 5 episodes to actually advance that freaking plot.

 

They're also talking about going bigger in S4.  I can't find the quote now but I read it last night and they were talking about going Global and stuff.  I really do wonder what they have planned for the end of S3 and S4.  I'm getting the impression that Oliver/TA won't return to Starling City (full time?  Ever?) and might deal with issues on a global event scale, ARGUS level?

 

In 303, Oliver and Lyla have an exchange that hints at this. I think this is the quote:

 

Team Arrow may have starling city purring like a kitten, But the rest of the world is still a very dangerous place.

 

 

So, I think you're onto something.

[Chaser]

Oliver choosing to give up Arrow to be Oliver Queen full time or the Demon, negates the last three seasons of growth. S4 would just be a redo of beats already hit. It's a cheap rewrite. I would also say the same for regressing Diggle and Felicity who have shown to be 100% behind the vigilante business.

[nksarmi]

The pics and flashes we get from Oliver in Central City with Flash seems to indicate that he isn't so evil.  What episode is that 1x21 or 1x22?  How does it fit into Arrow airing dates now?  Because if he is fighting along side Barry in CC, he can't be evil in SC, can he?

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, it's 122, and I agree that at that point, he's at least trying to help Barry. Whether of his own volition or because it's a part of his LoA mission, I don't know.

[Chaser]

The pics and flashes we get from Oliver in Central City with Flash seems to indicate that he isn't so evil.  What episode is that 1x21 or 1x22?  How does it fit into Arrow airing dates now?  Because if he is fighting along side Barry in CC, he can't be evil in SC, can he?

While we already know that they will forget characterizations and relatonships to fit The Flash styling, so who knows..

[looptab]

I still wonder about Stephen's tweet at the beginning of 320 filming--the direction: "When you see Stephen, go limp." Not sure who that would be, but I think it was the same day as the body-mounted camera shot, so I'm guessing it does happen at the hospital? 

I think that was for 3x19. actually. He @ the director for that episode. Yet I can't figure out for which scene this direction was, ahah.

[statsgirl]

The Sara/stunt woman shot over Ra's talking about the LP makes me think that that's how they are going to bring Sara back for the spin-off.  I'd like it to have been done by Malcolm in exchange for killing her since JB is potentially back next season, but I'll take it any way I can get it.

 

If Felicity is the one taking care of Thea and not Laurel, I could definitely get behind that.  Laurel makes more sense because she's got a relationship with Thea but I'm desperate for some Felicity/Thea bonding.  Maybe Felicity can stay at the penthouse with her, since they spent all that money on the set.

 

Ray/Felicity is paralleling Sara/Oliver so much, I'm convinced it's Ray who says a "you need someone else in your life whose light you can harness" line..

 

BTW - What's the game changer for 319?  That the Arrow is dead?

And that Roy is gone.  (And what happened to poor Fern.)

[Carrie Ann]

I think that was for 3x19. actually. He @ the director for that episode. Yet I can't figure out for which scene this direction was, ahah.

 

Oh you're right! Yeah, weird...no idea when that direction would have made sense.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[blixie]

 

nd might deal with issues on a global event scale,

 

Well they clearly have the wormhole technology (or maybe it's via Pneumatic Tube?) to achieve a global justice system. 

[jay741982]

I think the wedge is HIVE-related too, which is great. Real earned conflict between OG TA. Dig and Oliver already about slayed me with their small physical confrontation last night (push him again Oliver, that was SO HOT) and it will extend to Felicity as well, since if Oliver is legitimately in the wrong, which I'm sure he is, she will side with Diggle.

I think that would mean that we'd end the season with the team broken up though, and the title of the finale gives me a different sense.

I agree with those getting anxious about the breakup/hookup timeline here. It's getting unsettling.

And obviously Felicity will run Oliver through with a sword in time to stop him from awakening Acathla. Working title of the finale: Becoming, Part 3.

Buffy Reference FTW! I know someone on Twitter who said she saw Parallels between Olicity Sex and Bangel sex

[Ariah]

I guess Thea was not told about Roy's survival so that she can be furious with Oliver once she comes back from the dead. Deep down she connects Oliver to Roy's "death"...

 

(But I must admit, Malcolm's "You don't need to come back if you don't want to" made my eyes a bit wet...)

[wonderwall]

For those of you fearing that The Arrow won't be back... I really doubt the arrow won't return by the finale because being AL saheem wasn't Oliver's choice. Not really. And the fact that he needs to be brainwashed indicates that this is all temporary because I think that felicity and Thea are the ones who will bring him back

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I think that was for 3x19. actually. He @ the director for that episode. Yet I can't figure out for which scene this direction was, ahah.

From a grammatical standpoint, the way the tweet is written it was said to someone not Stephen. The person is to react to SA not that it is to be SA's reaction.

[chaos is welcome]

Maybe when he finds thea?

[Carrie Ann]

No, the confusion was that I thought that tweet was regarding filming for 320, but it was for 319. And yes, it was a direction given to another actor, not to Stephen. My theory is that they changed the way a scene played out--possibly originally Oliver found out about Roy before Thea did.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[statsgirl]

For those of you fearing that The Arrow won't be back... I really doubt the arrow won't return by the finale because being AL saheem wasn't Oliver's choice. Not really. And the fact that he needs to be brainwashed indicates that this is all temporary because I think that felicity and Thea are the ones who will bring him back

Except according to Starling City, Roy Harper was The Arrow and Roy Harper is dead, therefore The Arrow is dead.  Now I doubt that he's dead for the next 2+ seasons, but as soon as The Arrow returns, Quentin is going to go after him again and Roy's sacrifice will be in vain.

[Morrigan2575]

For those of you fearing that The Arrow won't be back... I really doubt the arrow won't return by the finale because being AL saheem wasn't Oliver's choice. Not really. And the fact that he needs to be brainwashed indicates that this is all temporary because I think that felicity and Thea are the ones who will bring him back

I don't think we will, at least not Oliver in the Arrow costume.  I don't think Oliver will be Evil!Oliver beyond 322 and all the talk about blowing up the show and stuff and going bigger. I'm not sure we'll see Oliver back in SC full time.  At least not just protecting SC from local bad guys.  

 

Right now, The Arrow is dead, it died with Roy.  Any attempt to bring the Arrow back turned attention back to Oliver Queen.  Going by the promo Thea is officially dead and body snatched.  So we have both identities dead.  I wouldn't be surprised if they move to "Seattle" and Thea starts going by Mia Dearden while Oliver takes on a temporary new Code name.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Except according to Starling City, Roy Harper was The Arrow and Roy Harper is dead, therefore The Arrow is dead.  Now I doubt that he's dead for the next 2+ seasons, but as soon as The Arrow returns, Quentin is going to go after him again and Roy's sacrifice will be in vain.

 

No he won't. Quentin will either die, or he and Oliver will get back on good terms again. Or Oliver will go be Arrow somewhere else.

Edited April 16, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

Well, they think the Arrow is dead but what about Green Arrow? If Laurel gets to be BC this season after a handful of episodes and boxing lessons, Oliver has every damn right to finally be GA.

[calliope1975]

Oddly enough I'm actually starting to find Oliver's identity issues interesting.too bad they waited until the last 5 episodes to actually advance that freaking plot.

 

For all the talk of exploring identity this year, they've done a pretty shitty job of it. I agree that it took way to long to really address Oliver's identity issues. Repeating that line of "someone once told me a man can't live by two names" or whatever it was every 3 episodes didn't cut it. Felicity's identity issues weren't actually about her. I can't remember too much focus on Diggle other than him saying he was quitting, then Lyla said she had quit ARGUS, and I guess the topic was dropped. Thea's story wasn't about her, though I would have loved to see her reconciling whether she's her mother's daughter or her father's. Laurel...jello. 

 

Yesterday, I said I needed Felicity to break up with Ray. I still want and need that, but I'd be okay with Ray sticking a post it on her car. I just want it over, and I don't really care how we get there. I'll take an offhand, "Oh we broke up." Please just make it stop. 

 

We have 4 episodes left. Oliver joins the LOA, becomes evil either presently or in the past, finds time to make a stop in Central City to fight the Reverse Flash - where he must not be evil because that seems like a not evil thing to do - and then reclaim his identity as Oliver Queen. That's pretty jam packed.

 

Well, they think the Arrow is dead but what about Green Arrow?

 

 

Good point, Angel. We've been told there's no more Arrow this year. Nothing's been said about Green Arrow. I'd actually really like the last shot to be of Green Arrow.

Edited April 16, 2015 by calliope1975

[nksarmi]

Except according to Starling City, Roy Harper was The Arrow and Roy Harper is dead, therefore The Arrow is dead.  Now I doubt that he's dead for the next 2+ seasons, but as soon as The Arrow returns, Quentin is going to go after him again and Roy's sacrifice will be in vain.

I know we haven't gotten any news or spoiler info of a Quentin death, but I really think it's coming for this very reason.  Even my fiancé last night was watching it going, they have written themselves into a corner with this character, he can't just be "ok" with Team Arrow again after all this and it be believable and we can't just keep watching him going after Oliver so something bad has to happen to him.  He figures they can "save" his character if they send him away, but that's about it.  I think he's right - unless this show isn't going to be set in SC next year - Quentin has to go.

Well, they think the Arrow is dead but what about Green Arrow? If Laurel gets to be BC this season after a handful of episodes and boxing lessons, Oliver has every damn right to finally be GA.

I wondered if they would make a play on this somehow - of course the problem is that Oliver was already in green, but they might be able to make it work.

[Guest]

I think they've set up Quentin's dislike of Arrow and vigilantes to continue next season tbh. I get the feeling that next season's theme will be about family - just based on hints about Felicity's dad and Diggle with H.I.V.E and solving his brother's murder etc - and so I can see more conflict between Laurel and Quentin related to that. She's now BC and he's against that. I can't think what else they'd do with Laurel or Quentin otherwise.

[statsgirl]

I know we haven't gotten any news or spoiler info of a Quentin death, but I really think it's coming for this very reason.  Even my fiancé last night was watching it going, they have written themselves into a corner with this character, he can't just be "ok" with Team Arrow again after all this and it be believable and we can't just keep watching him going after Oliver so something bad has to happen to him.  He figures they can "save" his character if they send him away, but that's about it.  I think he's right - unless this show isn't going to be set in SC next year - Quentin has to go.

Quentin's anger at The Arrow is really projection at this point about how he's lost everything meaningful in his life (Dinah, Sara, Laurel with her lying, and his belief in The Law).  If they give him an arc where he realizes that and can figure things out, I don't see why he can't be Oliver's police partner again.  (Also, I like Paul Blackthorne and he's a good actor.)  Even if Malcolm ends up good, which is a huge stretch, they're still going to need one senior person on law enforcement.

[looptab]

From a grammatical standpoint, the way the tweet is written it was said to someone not Stephen. The person is to react to SA not that it is to be SA's reaction.

Yes, I meant I can't remember anyone going limp in a scene with Stephen, :)

 

On topic, I know not every shot used in promos actually ends up in the episodes, but even the dialog seems different from one promo to another and that's frustrating. Do you think the promos from NZ or CTV were made from the actual final cut of the episode?

Edited April 16, 2015 by looptab

[Chaser]

I noticed that the canadian promo had a close up of the glasses removal but the us version was a wide shot. Thought that was odd.

[Sunshine]

Okay, having seen the New Zealand promo we know Felicity stands up to Ra's. MG's quote was "We've got a scene coming up in a future episode where you won't believe who she stands up to and HOW she does it" (emphasis mine).  Any ideas on the how?  It might simply be facing him alone but so much has been spoiled - Thea & LP, Oliver branding, ILY, Olicity sex, etc - for this episode that I wonder what they are hiding.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Sunshine

[Velocity23]

The jet scene! Stephens  favorite part of 3x20.

[looptab]

I noticed that the canadian promo had a close up of the glasses removal but the us version was a wide shot. Thought that was odd.

Especially since now I can't decide which I prefer! You can't give me alternatives, evil promo department people! *shakes fist*

[apinknightmare]

Okay, for real, WTF is Thea doing on a stretcher with paramedics in what looks like a private hangar, I don't understand. 

[Soulfire]

Okay, for real, WTF is Thea doing on a stretcher with paramedics in what looks like a private hangar, I don't understand. 

 

I assume she doesn't die in the hospital and that if she flatlines, she comes back from it. So they take her to Nanda Parbat to save what little of her life is left.

 

 

Also I'm clearly twelve years old because I'm giggling imagining Matt Nable standing on apple boxes to loom over EBR like that.

[Carrie Ann]

Well, they're getting her/her body onto the plane to NP, right? Maybe those paramedics were paid off by someone, or maybe Felicity worked up some sort of false transfer order, or they employed that one doctor to help them...

[apinknightmare]

Well, they're getting her/her body onto the plane to NP, right? Maybe those paramedics were paid off by someone, or maybe Felicity worked up some sort of false transfer order, or they employed that one doctor to help them...

 

Yeah, maybe. It's just weird to me, that's all. Are these guys going to travel with them, or are they just waving them away at the hangar, haha. I expected this transfer to be much more low tech, I guess. 

[Guest]

Thea is either not dead dead yet but it's clear she's going to die without the LP or she is dead and the stretcher and paramedics are just a fake formality to be able to get her on a plane. It would look kind of strange to remove her body from the hospital otherwise.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

Thea is either not dead dead yet but it's clear she's going to die without the LP or she is dead and the stretcher and paramedics are just a fake formality to be able to get her on a plane. It would look kind of strange to remove her body from the hospital otherwise.

 

Honestly, I figured Oliver just stole her, haha. 

[Carrie Ann]

Yeah, maybe. It's just weird to me, that's all. Are these guys going to travel with them, or are they just waving them away at the hangar, haha. I expected this transfer to be much more low tech, I guess. 

 

Yeah, I'm guessing waving them away at the hangar, but no idea why they'd actually leave without the presence of other medical staff onsite, so that's why I'm assuming payoff.

[Guest]

Honestly, I figured Oliver just stole her, haha. 

 

Lol, he could have done I suppose but I imagine Quentin might have officers following him around and if he just strolled out of the hospital with Thea wrapped in a blanket, they would have some questions.