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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Don't we have spoiler pics of him back in the Arrow costume in the finale? Or am I completely confused?

He was in the Arrow costume for whatever it is they're shooting for the spin-off. MG said we wouldn't see him in the Arrow suit again this season (although he could be trolling).

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Oliver not being back in the Arrow suit would line up with some of our theories that he is JUST Oliver Queen at season end - operating the business, getting back into the public eye, etc... I'm not sure what this would mean for the 3.5 comics, but there are all sorts of places they could go with it.

 

What I really want to know is what is going on with Roy.  If he is dead (please no!) or they fake his death, then the perception is that the Arrow is dead in Starling City and Oliver would have to be careful if he wants to distance himself from suspicion.  Heck, even if Roy is in prison, the same remains true.

 

The only way Oliver can operate as a vigilante and remove the suspicion Lance put on him is to a) really change his costume or b) they break Roy out of prison and he is on the run from the law.

 

I just cannot square with Oliver's "everything has been leading me to this moment" like the LOA is his destiny.  There just isn't anything that makes me ok with him coming to think that.  And I especially can't see it if Roy dies and/or Thea needs to be put in the LP.  It just doesn't work for me.  I hope it plays better than I expect - otherwise I'm going to have to put it right up there with "I have to save Thea's soul by not letting her be responsible for Merlyn's death" and "I couldn't accept that there was someone out there who could beat me" moments of the season that make me want to scream and throw things at the TV.  And I am not enough of an olicity fan for their sexy times to save that line for me.

 

Also, I can't wrap my head around who the hell could be getting married if Roy dies.  I hope that means Roy doesn't freakin' die.  Because if Roy is dead, it can't be him and Thea - the only couple on the show I could accept getting married at this point.  And if Roy - Oliver's student and mentee - does die, I really don't want to see him getting married in the next episode like it's no big deal.  That might break me.  There better be a huge time jump if that happens.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Obviously I'll have to see it in context, but I didn't get that Oliver thought that joining the LoA was his "destiny" when he said that every decision he'd made led him to that moment. Seemed kind of angry to me. And he's not really wrong - Coming home to stop the Undertaking, not making sure Malcolm was dead (UGH), lying to Thea, etc...it all did lead to that moment. I get the feeling that if anything he feels like he's getting what he "deserves," because he still defaults to cynicism without giving himself credit for any of the good things he's done.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

So one of the quotes posted in the spoiler thread seems to indicate that any OOC differences we see in the characters when they move from Arrow to Flash is done on purpose.  I wish they didn't see Arrow as a show that has to be grim all the time.  I want to see the characters smile more and have a little fun.  It really bums me out that along with this season's plot points not making a ton of sense - the season has been so darn depressing.  I mean I guess that says that Sara's death had an impact and that's good, but at some point they need to lighten this stuff back up again or I'm going to end up being a Flash only fan.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

"I just cannot square with Oliver's "everything has been leading me to this moment" like the LOA is his destiny.  There just isn't anything that makes me ok with him coming to think that.  And I especially can't see it if Roy dies and/or Thea needs to be put in the LP.  It just doesn't work for me.  I hope it plays better than I expect - otherwise I'm going to have to put it right up there with "I have to save Thea's soul by not letting her be responsible for Merlyn's death" and "I couldn't accept that there was someone out there who could beat me" moments of the season that make me want to scream and throw things at the TV.  And I am not enough of an olicity fan for their sexy times to save that line for me."

 

100% agree.  I hate this whole Ra's/LOA storyline with the fire of 1000 suns.  The HERO of the story should not be joining up with an evil group of assassins, for any reason.  It literally makes me sick to my stomach.  I've quit watching, but just knowing it's happening still nauseates me.  There's no sex scene that could make that even an iota okay, plus it's probably going to be an incredibly depressing sex scene anyway.  I am really trying to wean myself off the show entirely, including spoilers/reviews, because I hate that a tv show makes me this angry.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Obviously I'll have to see it in context, but I didn't get that Oliver thought that joining the LoA was his "destiny" when he said that every decision he'd made led him to that moment. Seemed kind of angry to me. And he's not really wrong - Coming home to stop the Undertaking, not making sure Malcolm was dead (UGH), lying to Thea, etc...it all did lead to that moment. I get the feeling that if anything he feels like he's getting what he "deserves," because he still defaults to cynicism without giving himself credit for any of the good things he's done.

I watched it a couple of times and I didn't see anger at all.  Nor did I see his usual self-loathing crap.  But I guess we have to wait and see how it plays out.  I hope you are right because that's about the only way it would make sense to me.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I watched it a couple of times and I didn't see anger at all. Nor did I see his usual self-loathing crap. But I guess we have to wait and see how it plays out. I hope you are right because that's about the only way it would make sense to me.

Yeah, maybe angry isn't the word, but there was conviction there for sure. I just didn't read that conviction as "the LoA is my destiny" kind of conviction. I thought he meant it in a bad way, and this was his "punishment."

Could be wrong about that though, obviously.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

So, about the sneak peek with Quentin going down into Verdant's basement. They cleared the place of evidence first, right? I mean, I don't see any costumes on the dummies (I guess we know where Oliver's supposedly is, but I didn't see Roy's), but...surely Felicity triggered some remote data destroyer that wipes her hard drive, and they got all of their incriminating evidence out, right? RIGHT?

Edited by apinknightmare
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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

Actually, I am wondering if Laurel finds a way to discredit(?) the warrant and then anything seized would be inadmissible?  This might be how she "goes far to keep Oliver safe."  I think she's shoving paper at Quentin in one of the photos.

Edited by Sunshine
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I mean, I get why some stuff would be there. If they cleared it out completely, then it would look even more suspicious since Roy would need to have been working from a base and it would make sense if that base was in Verdant (not just because it WAS in Verdant, but also because he's Thea's boyfriend, although how she wouldn't get arrested for being an accessory, IDK, but whatever). I just hope Felicity of all people was smart enough to start taking care of business and covering their tracks.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

I'm betting Laurel destroys any evidence gathered. Then she'll be disbarred and fired and free to be Buckles full time. 

 

I'm all for watching Oliver use Ray as a weapon (because it looks kinda hot,) but it seems it, once again, shows that Ray is ineffective. 

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Felicity should have ALREADY destroyed any evidence that mattered before they even went to Diggle's house.  I will accept NO other plot point - the woman is a genius - this would not escape her if it didn't escape Tommy in season one!

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Sunshine

Sunshine

(edited)

I'm betting Laurel destroys any evidence gathered. Then she'll be disbarred and fired and free to be Buckles full time. 

 

I'm all for watching Oliver use Ray as a weapon (because it looks kinda hot,) but it seems it, once again, shows that Ray is ineffective. 

Maybe that's part of the point?  IIRC, Ray Palmer is a reluctant hero only suiting up when the other superheroes call on him.  Maybe they are setting him up to be the Cisco/Felicity of the spin-off and won't be in the field as much as some of the others at least until he can actually shrink?  He'll come up with cool tech and be more brains than brown.  IDK, I'll stop talking now. 

Edited by Sunshine
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Felicity should have ALREADY destroyed any evidence that mattered before they even went to Diggle's house. I will accept NO other plot point - the woman is a genius - this would not escape her if it didn't escape Tommy in season one!

You have to remember that the show has a hard on for laurel and so they must make others incompetent just so she can be relevant

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tv echo

tv echo

When I first saw that white lacy-looking bodice, I thought 'wedding dress'? - but then I saw the facebook video (posted in the Public Appearances thread here) and realized it was a white top, not a dress, worn over jeans. 

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Quentin already knows Felicity and Diggle and Laurel are all accomplices and he hasn't done jack to get them. Maybe accomplices don't exist in Starling City!

 

Plus we know Felicity and Digg end up in Nanda Parbat so if they are arrested, they either escape or it doesn't stick. 

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looptab

looptab

I'll have to rewatch the promo because I didn't get the sense of 'destiny' nor the anger or feeling of being punished. Entirely different interpretation, I thought it was a preamble for a '...screw it' moment.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Quentin knew Roy, Felicity and Diggle worked with Oliver but now the police have hard evidence. So unless Laurel makes EVERYTHING go away, or time is reset, in which case we lose Raylicity breaking up and Olicity sex, the Arrow and Team Arrow are toast.

 

Love Oliver's grumpy expression around Ray.  And Ray's auspiciousness about Oliver being okay with him helping.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

Ray is totally going to ask about the fern and Felicity is totally going to have to explain it and I hope he cries, just a little bit.

 

ETA: Or...it's gonna get destroyed by the cops. Now I made myself sad.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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lemotomato

lemotomato

Felicity should have ALREADY destroyed any evidence that mattered before they even went to Diggle's house. I will accept NO other plot point - the woman is a genius - this would not escape her if it didn't escape Tommy in season one!

Felicity the genius that didn't know Malcom was spying on the Arrowcave through the camera on her computer? Let's face it, these writers have no problem inexplicably dumbing down characters for plot reasons, and I agree with the spec that this will be the case here, so Laurel can shine with her brilliant lawyering.
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I think Fern will be toast in the explosion (the foundry is blowing up tonight, right?).  Or maybe Fern will be one of the few things to survive said explosion.  Maybe she can take a plane trip to Nanda Parbat...I think she'll thrive in the Honeymoon Suite.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

So, Fern gets blown up along with the cave? Or does someone save Fern for ~SYMBOLISM~?

 

Edit: or what @SonofaBiscuit said. Hee. :)

 

Also, it doesn't look like Oliver's getting arrested in this episode, since he's laying low [per official episode description] and going to Palmer for help with the meta. They gotta solve all of this police stuff in this episode, because next week is Nanda Parbat, and the next is Laurel asking Team Arrow to help Nyssa, so, business as usual.

Edited by dancingnancy
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jay741982

jay741982

I think Fern will be toast in the explosion (the foundry is blowing up tonight, right?). Or maybe Fern will be one of the few things to survive said explosion. Maybe she can take a plane trip to Nanda Parbat...I think she'll thrive in the Honeymoon Suite.

Lol as long she can avoid some Bom chicka wow wow from her parents lol

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Ray probably shots the fern. "Oops, My Bad!" 

 

Spilt the difference, have Felicity set up a self destruct on the computers and Laurel can get rid of fingerprints. Or because Laurel is such an awesome daughter and Lance needs to be hurt some more, have Laurel threaten to destory her father if he continues the investigation.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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nksarmi

nksarmi

Felicity the genius that didn't know Malcom was spying on the Arrowcave through the camera on her computer? Let's face it, these writers have no problem inexplicably dumbing down characters for plot reasons, and I agree with the spec that this will be the case here, so Laurel can shine with her brilliant lawyering.

I get it.  Everyone has taken a hit from the dumb stick this season.

 

-Merlyn seems to think its even a possibility that Oliver can defeat Ras

-Oliver goes and fights Ras even though he later says he knows Merlyn would have never turned Thea over to the LOA

-Oliver sticks Merlyn on Thea's couch even though she does NOT want him there

-Oliver seems to have forgotten that it was Merlyn who sabotaged the Queen's Gambit so he is the reason Robert is dead - not Oliver

-Diggle tells Oliver not to tell Thea about him being the Arrow which is about the worst advice that Diggle has ever uttered

-Laurel lies to her dad about Sara and gets everyone to help her do it

-Laurel doesn't tell her dad about Merlyn once Oliver brings him back from NP, because I'm think if he was that beat up, they could have arrested him and held him jail for a least a few days - symbolic jester I know, but it would have been a good time to tell Lance everything about Sara's death too

-Ras wants someone who doesn't kill to be his Heir instead of him amazing and awesome daughter

-Lance apparently never asked Sara how she survived the boat wreck

 

I'm sure there are tons I've missed, but this is a lot of stupid on a show that I once thought was one of the best things on network television.  I'm sad.  And I'm really hoping we don't have to add neither Diggle nor Felicity thought to get rid of at least SOME evidence once Lance started his manhunt (doesn't Oliver have another secret lair that apparently Waller knows about? couldn't they have moved some stuff there?).

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

Everyone believed Malcolm when he said the LOA would blame Thea even though he'd drugged her, even though his whole plan hinged on that, so maybe his word alone on something like that should be taken with a large dose of skepticism.  And later, of course, we found out he lied when Nyssa didn't blame Thea.

 

Because some thug knew some councilmen's addresses, the mayor and police of a major American city intentionally ceded control over a large swath of that city to that criminal.  NEVER WOULD THAT HAPPEN. 

 

The equivalent of Mark Zuckerberg is suddenly a major unelected figure in city government, to the extent he's holding press conferences on city business.

 

Some weird dude sews his own mouth shut and then steals industrial diamonds to make armor-piercing bullets, when he could just, you know, BUY REGULAR ARMOR-PIERCING BULLETS.

 

I've been assuming Nyssa ends up as the new Demon's Head, but I wonder if it is Malcolm.  That could explain his haircut, plus provide some kind of explanation for keeping him around next season (although I don't know why he'd be in SC v. Nanda Parbat, but whatever, Malcolm plots have made zero sense since S1).

Edited by AyChihuahua
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FurryFury

FurryFury

Maybe they are setting him up to be the Cisco/Felicity of the spin-off and won't be in the field as much as some of the others at least until he can actually shrink?

 

I do think he's going to be the Cisco/Felicity in terms of comic relief, but I think he'll be in the field as much as the others because I'm sure he's going to be the first billed and the person with the biggest heroic motivation (at least at first).

 

I've been assuming Nyssa ends up as the new Demon's Head, but I wonder if it is Malcolm.

 

I don't follow Arrow, but it was the first thought that popped into my head when I've heard JB is going to be a regular next year.

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Guest

Guest

Well, that is definitely a plane. Military? H.I.V.E.? They said they're introducing the s4 villain in the finale didn't they?

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I'm not sure I believe JB that Malcolm's not going to die. Why even tweet about it if he's going to be a regular next season too?

 

 

I think Fern will be toast in the explosion (the foundry is blowing up tonight, right?).

Fern will blow up into little pieces, that will float through the air in slo-mo to show how artistic and film-worthy this show is.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Someone saves a fern frond, replants it, and it grows in a new pot for ~SYMBOLISM~!!!!

Baby Fern in a pot can dance in the sunshine with Baby Groot in a pot.

 

Instead of Laurel destroying evidence collected by the SCPD, what if there's no evidence to be found by Quentin when he and the police raid the foundry basement because Laurel warned Team Arrow ahead of time?  She's still Acting DA, right?  Maybe she gets a copy of every search warrant signed by a judge.  It could be that there are just bare mannequins and computers filled with only Verdant business information and no weapons when the raid occurs.

Edited by tv echo
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nksarmi

nksarmi

Baby Fern in a pot can dance in the sunshine with Baby Groot in a pot.

 

Instead of Laurel destroying evidence collected by the SCPD, what if there's no evidence to be found by Quentin when he and the police raid the foundry basement because Laurel warned Team Arrow ahead of time?  She's still Acting DA, right?  Maybe she gets a copy of every search warrant signed by a judge.  It could be there are only bare mannequins and computers filled with Verdant business information and no weapons when the raid occurs.

If only this show would be that smart again.  Sniff.

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Guest
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