Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

You never know.  The "rigorous transformation." could mean brainwashing or something so that Oliver is Evil Al-Saheem (however it's spelled) and this is going to be Team Arrow vs Oliver/LOA.  With the ending being Oliver waking up from his "rigorous transformation." and coming back to himself.

[statsgirl]

That makes sense, but to do it all within a couple of episodes is really rushing it, even for this show. Plus, they also have to put Damian Darhk in there somewhere.

[Morrigan2575]

That, I don't know.  I think I read somewhere that MG said the final 3 episodes will take place over several days.  So it's going to be a consolidated timeline.  Maybe the big fight doesn't happen until the end of the episode?  Then there's fallout in 322 and Oliver finally "wakes" up in 323 just in time to kick LoA and Ra's out of SC?

 

My guess for Damien Darhk is that he'll get a cameo setup in 323, maybe he's the tag at the end, like Oliver waking up in Hong Kong at the end of 223?

Edited April 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[blixie]

 

has been trained for all of 5 seconds but is totes a hero because she has a mask, asking Dig and Felicity for help.

 

Ha, yes, I am pro Canary Cry, but I love that she went from perpetually knocked in the dirt newbie to assassin defeating ninja over the course of three episodes, and then she needs a Canary Cry and the help of TA to get shit done. So much fail.

[lemotomato]

Surprised they would air a Laurel heavy episode to start sweeps. I wonder if they are hoping a big Olicity/Team Arrow episode will boast it.

I think 2x21 and 2x22 were pretty Laurel-centric too, so if they're following the same pattern, I hope the finale focuses back on Team Arrow.

[Chaser]

I would love for Laurel to be scrambling about trying to help Nyssa and Felicity/Diggle just call up Oliver like "Hey Dude!"

[Morrigan2575]

I'm reading that the person behind Oliver in this pic is Roy.  Can anyone confirm?

 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

"You never know.  The "rigorous transformation." could mean brainwashing or something so that Oliver is Evil Al-Saheem (however it's spelled) and this is going to be Team Arrow vs Oliver/LOA."

 

He went through torture and deprivation that would pretty much break anyone and came out of it determined to make up for his and his father's sins.  I think his mind is a little tougher than that.  Plus, most of 20 is Olicity sex and Thea stuff, 22 is some kind of quasi-good stuff based on the title and lyrics to the title's song, F22 he's helping Barry, then 23 he takes back his name.  So if he's brainwashed, it lasts an episode.  That's pretty shoddy brainwashing.

[Morrigan2575]

"You never know.  The "rigorous transformation." could mean brainwashing or something so that Oliver is Evil Al-Saheem (however it's spelled) and this is going to be Team Arrow vs Oliver/LOA."

 

He went through torture and deprivation that would pretty much break anyone and came out of it determined to make up for his and his father's sins.  I think his mind is a little tougher than that.  Plus, most of 20 is Olicity sex and Thea stuff, 22 is some kind of quasi-good stuff based on the title and lyrics to the title's song, F22 he's helping Barry, then 23 he takes back his name.  So if he's brainwashed, it lasts an episode.  That's pretty shoddy brainwashing.

Not if Ra's uses that magic herb/berry or whatever that MM used on Thea.  Hell, Ra's and the LoA probably have their own version of brainwashing juice.  I mean this is the same show that never mentioned a Mirakuru cure until what 318 or 319?

[apinknightmare]

I'm reading that the person behind Oliver in this pic is Roy.  Can anyone confirm?

 

 

Pretty sure it's Diggle.

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks, I thought it was confirmed from another source but appears to be speculation.

 

Apparently twitter is saying the person labeled as Maseo in the pic is in fact Roy.  Seems like just pure speculation, nothing from new material that reveals the information

Edited April 9, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[looptab]

I think what they're doing with 3x21 is a lot similar with what they did with 3x11: we'll have Oliver in the League, as we had Oliver just waking up. so people will want to tune in to see what's going on with him. I wonder if they'll keep to put Oliver in dire situations away from SC every time they need to give Laurel a storyline. Though I hope it'll be more about Nyssa. And I'm kinda intrigued to see how they'll interact.

 

Question: so it was confirmed that the person being introduced is Damian Dahrk? Or is it still the tentative name?

Q2: Do we have any idea of what happens in 3x22?

[Ariah]

As long as Felicity and Diggle do not go with saying "Dinah Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world" they'll be safe.

Still I wonder how can they actually help Nyssa - call Ray? (No.) Call Oliver and made him change the League's target?

 

More often than not it seems the plot of this season is written in jumps from one "cool" scene to another "epic" twist. So i guess the writers thought having Nyssa hunted by the LoA is either "cool", "epic" or "game changing". And wrote the rest of the episode to fit the bill.

[apinknightmare]

I can tell the "he's like Barry in Oliver's body" line is going to be cringeworthy-er than I thought if the way Felicity is hanging on Ray in that promo is any indication. I also don't like that she asked Barry if he was jealous of Ray. Ugh. 

[Password]

Really? Have mercy.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Well, I'm avoiding watching that preview, but now I'm not even sure if I want to watch Flash 1x18.  Yikes.

[tarotx]

Maybe team Arrow decide that Nyssa has to be the one to kill her father to save herself and Oliver. Which might be what her father wanted in the first place (one can hope). And as he lies dying he tells her that he had Sara LPed months ago and sent her to the brothers or Shiva to rehabilitate. Or perhaps H.I.V.E. Now she's White Canary And doesn't remember anything of her past life.

Lol yeah...

[tv echo]

After watching the producer's preview for Flash 1x18, I think I'm gonna skip that episode ("He's like Barry in Oliver's body.").

 

After seeing the promo pics for Flash 1x19, I think I'm gonna skip that episode ("I'm the Black Canary" - "I love you.").

 

Cross-overs sometimes have a negative effect...

Edited April 9, 2015 by tv echo

[NumberCruncher]

I can tell the "he's like Barry in Oliver's body" line is going to be cringeworthy-er than I thought if the way Felicity is hanging on Ray in that promo is any indication. I also don't like that she asked Barry if he was jealous of Ray. Ugh.

So. Much. Facepalm.

[steeledwithakiss]

I'm so glad AK is not writing for Arrow anymore.

Edited April 9, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[tarotx]

Ew I think I'll pass on the Flash Preview and episode then....

[looptab]

I really don't know how that visit is going to add up with what's going on in Starling. They just arrested Oliver and Roy has confessed being the Arrow, but sure, let's go have some fun in Central City.

Really hoping they made the due changes to justify the timeline.

Edited April 9, 2015 by looptab

[Sakura12]

For the next two Flash eps. If I'm home I might watch to kill time before iZombie starts, but I'm not going to rush home. 

[statsgirl]

I really hate how Felicity is hanging off Ray's arm like a needy girlfriend from a 50's show.  Ewwww.  Way to destroy the character, AK. Way to destroy her with Laurel proppping, MG.

[steeledwithakiss]

She always looks so needy with him. That's just weird, maybe it's because everytime they try to act coupley Ray kinda ignores her.

Edited April 9, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[tv echo]

Also, Ray comes across as indifferent to Felicity.  If I hadn't been told otherwise, I would think that he only used her for her IT skills and connections to STAR Labs.

[statsgirl]

I think there needs to be a course for writers of TV shows to keep their fantasies out of their scripts (like there is for therapists to keep their personal feelings out of the session).  I'm sure that AK loves this version of Felicity and that's what he secretly wants to have, someone brilliant and beautiful hanging off his arm)  but it just makes her look awful to be hanging on to Ray like that as if she can't bear to be apart from him (hello, remember the Oliver arc?)

 

I'd think better of Ray if he treated Felicity better, not because she's acting like he hung the moon and the stars.

 

And telling Barry he's jealous of Ray?  Not enough Ewwwwww in the world for that.

[chaos is welcome]

After watching the producer's preview for Flash 1x18, I think I'm gonna skip that episode ("He's like Barry in Oliver's body.").

 

After seeing the promo pics for Flash 1x19, I think I'm gonna skip that episode ("I'm the Black Canary" - "I love you.").

 

Cross-overs sometimes have a negative effect...

Yup.  The two things I dislike most about Arrow spilling over to the flash? I say again, no.

 

ITA about the jealous line.  I really miss the Felicity of S1-S2.  I do not like the jealous lines, or the hanging on Ray's arm business. Although that I could maybe handwave because she has always played as being touch starved. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[Sunshine]

In 3.21, if Oliver undergoes a rigorous transformation and the LOA comes to SC for Nyssa, is there any chance that Oliver is part of this LOA group so he ends up going against Team Arrow?  Is this the thing that changes John & Oliver's relationship?

[DrSpaceman10]

It's like Felicity turns into a completely different person when she's around Ray. I can't wait until that relationship is over, hopefully it'll only last two more episodes (1x18 and 3x19).

[Morrigan2575]

In 3.21, if Oliver undergoes a rigorous transformation and the LOA comes to SC for Nyssa, is there any chance that Oliver is part of this LOA group so he ends up going against Team Arrow?  Is this the thing that changes John & Oliver's relationship?

Yes, I suspect that is what will happen.

[apinknightmare]

In 3.21, if Oliver undergoes a rigorous transformation and the LOA comes to SC for Nyssa, is there any chance that Oliver is part of this LOA group so he ends up going against Team Arrow?  Is this the thing that changes John & Oliver's relationship?

 

He could be, considering Canadagraphs or someone saw Nyssa, Oliver, Diggle and Felicity (not sure if Laurel was there) filming a scene on a rooftop for this ep. Not sure why this would change his relationship with Diggle though. Diggle's a good dude, but he knows the League comes after members when they leave, and if Oliver joins to use the LP on Thea, I'm not sure what exactly Diggle would expect Oliver to do when it came to disobeying an order from Ra's. 

 

I feel like it'd have to be something more personal than that, but who knows with this show at this point. 

[steeledwithakiss]

I don't think the jealous comment was out of line. Barry did look weird and his "isn't he too tall for you?" remark did sound like jealousy. Of course she doesn't know he has this whole Wells killed my mother thing to deal with, so he probably hasn't get time to deal with helping Ray with his suit.

Edited April 9, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[apinknightmare]

I don't think the jealous was out of line. Barry did look weird and his "isn't her too tall for you". Of course she doesn't know he has this whole Wells killed my mother thing to deal with, so he probably hasn't get time to deal with Ray.

 

I don't think it's out of line, I just don't like it coming from her. Especially since she was pretty adamant that she and Barry weren't and wouldn't be a thing in the last crossover, so assuming Barry's jealous of Ray is pretty presumptuous. 

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'll be curious to see if people who quit Arrow are left wondering what in the hell happened to Felicity.  The writers have done such a disservice to her character.  Also, The Flash audience likes Barry.  It's probably not a good strategy to get the audience to like the new guy by asking a character who holds viewers loyalties if he's jealous of said new guy.  Huh? 

[GirlvsTV]

It's like Felicity turns into a completely different person when she's around Ray. I can't wait until that relationship is over, hopefully it'll only last two more episodes (1x18 and 3x19).

ITA. I really don't like the version of Felicity that appears whenever Ray is around. She feels totally OOC.

Although I know this Flash ep was meant to be before the last Arrow ep, I wonder if more casual viewers will be aware? The tone of that clip definitely feels weird given all the bad stuff that just happened on Arrow.

Edited April 9, 2015 by GirlvsTV

[Angel12d]

The shitty things they've done to Felicity this season are just yuck. I wasn't going to watch 118 anyway because that line she says about 'Ray is Barry in Oliver's body' is like my nightmare but knowing she's hanging all over Ray and asking if Barry is jealous is like my nightmare multiplied by five. And I saw a gif with Felicity saying she left SC to escape the mood and brood and I'm like really? So sorry all the death and Ra's al Ghul affecting your team is inconveniencing you Felicity. Damn. They're lucky I love her as much as I do. 

 

If I pretend it doesn't exist, do you think it will work?! The only way I accept this episode is knowing, chronologically, it happens before 318. 

 

Shudder.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Angel12d

[steeledwithakiss]

What bothers more (well everything in that preview bothers me) is that in 2 episodes O/F are sleeping together and Felicity is probably telling Oliver she loves him, in 1 episode she's probably breaking up with Ray. I mean are we supposed to think Felicity is so out of touch with her feelings? I could accept it with Oliver when he was dating Sara last year but Felicity doesn't strike me as someone so unaware. She wasn't surprised when her mother told her she was in love with Oliver, she knows she is. Is she faking that lovey dovey stuff with Ray until she makes it ?

 

OTT: Is anyone confused with that whole Ray/Roy/Ra's thing? I keep typing one instead of the other.

Edited April 9, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[Password]

I am reeeeeeally curious to see what The Flash fans and former Arrow fans think of not just Felicity but Atom-man.

[Chaser]

I'm just going to ignore this episode altogether.

[apinknightmare]

What bothers more (well everything in that preview bothers me) is that in 2 episodes O/F are sleeping together and Felicity is probably telling Oliver she loves him, in 1 episode she's probably breaking up with Ray. I mean are we supposed to think Felicity is so out of touch with her feelings? I could accept it with Oliver when he was dating Sara last year but Felicity doesn't strike me as someone so unaware. She wasn't surprised when her mother told her she was in love with Oliver, she knows she is. Is she faking that lovey dovey stuff with Ray until she makes it ?

 

This doesn't bother me because I know the timeline is messed up because of the network's doing, and there probably wasn't too much the writers could do to fix that once they found out. 

[Password]

I'm confused as to when this is happening. Is it right after ep 17 in Arrow or...because isn't Ray getting the suit fixed? Or upgraded? Don't you generally go for upgrades when you've tried it out (Arrow vs Atom fight) and find it needs a few things fixed?

[AyChihuahua]

If they have Oliver due to drugs or herbs or brainwashing or what the hell ever actually go after Team Arrow, I am absolutely done.  I would be utterly furious.  If he's really full-on thrown in with the LOA, I may actually throw up.  (I'm still leaning towards it all being a ploy, esp since it seems pretty clear he's out at the end of the season.)

[steeledwithakiss]

This doesn't bother me because I know the timeline is messed up because of the network's doing, and there probably wasn't too much the writers could do to fix that once they found out. 

I know that episode is supposed to happen between Arrow 3x17 and 3x18 but it still looks out of place. And the writers knew they were writing this and that in 2 episodes they'd have O/F together. Can't say I'm surprised, they did the same thing at the end of season 1 and 2. It seems they only write for their season finale and never care what they put in between.

[apinknightmare]

I'm confused as to when this is happening. Is it right after ep 17 in Arrow or...because isn't Ray getting the suit fixed? Or upgraded? Don't you generally go for upgrades when you've tried it out (Arrow vs Atom fight) and find it needs a few things fixed?

 

Yeah, I don't understand when it's supposed to have happened either. It can't be in between 3x17 and 3x18, because one picked up where the other ended. If anything, it would have to be before 3x17, but that might not make sense either depending on what happens in the ep since Felicity didn't know the suit worked then.

[Chaser]

The whole thing is sloppy. I blame Ray.

[apinknightmare]

I know that episode is supposed to happen between Arrow 3x17 and 3x18 but it still looks out of place. And the writers knew they were writing this and that in 2 episodes they'd have O/F together. Can't say I'm surprised, they did the same thing at the end of season 1 and 2. It seems they only write for their season finale and never care what they put in between.

 

I mean, they knew they that R/F would be over in two-ish eps when they were writing the POS that was Suicidal Tendencies. It doesn't bother me at all - Felicity had her epiphany about not loving Ray last week - timeline-wise The Flash ep comes before it. I'm kind of curious what people who don't follow the EPs online and don't know about the time issue will think though.

Edited April 9, 2015 by apinknightmare

[DrSpaceman10]

What bothers more (well everything in that preview bothers me) is that in 2 episodes O/F are sleeping together and Felicity is probably telling Oliver she loves him, in 1 episode she's probably breaking up with Ray. I mean are we supposed to think Felicity is so out of touch with her feelings?

 

Yeah, it's fast and I think they should have kept Ray/Felicity as a flirtation instead of a full blown relationship, but what's done is done. In my opinion, Oliver/Felicity have fully earned that moment in 3x20, so I'm not that upset with how fast all of this is happening. 

[steeledwithakiss]

I think it's supposed to happen in a parallel universe between F/R making up in 3x17 and them going to the Mayor's office. I've decided that parallel universe doesn't exist so nothing that happens in The Flash 1x18 actually happens.

Edited April 9, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[AyChihuahua]

Viewers of both shows will think Felicity is a ridiculous, disloyal, and pretty flaky person (with, in this episode, very unfortunate hair).  And I'd guess that the large majority of viewers don't follow spoilers or EPs and have no idea, unless they build an explanation into the episode.