S04.E03: Restoration

[apinknightmare]

I took it as Malcolm being desperate so he wanted to contradict her just made point of "he isn't going to help Sara and he isn't going to help me." The one thing they have kept consistent about Malcolm and Thea's relationship is as crazy, evil as he is - he does really want to have a relationship with her.

But is he not worried about Sara wanting to come after Thea? Is that what's going to get Oliver to call his old friend Constantine? Because even if he's trying to reconnect with Thea and prove her wrong about him, seems he'd at least be concerned about her safety.

[AyChihuahua]

But is he not worried about Sara wanting to come after Thea? Is that what's going to get Oliver to call his old friend Constantine? Because even if he's trying to reconnect with Thea and prove her wrong about him, seems he'd at least be concerned about her safety.

You just stop with the logic...YOU MUST STOP!

[InsertWordHere]

What the hell was Oliver trying to do in the first fight when he was providing "air support?" I know they probably thought the bike stunts looked cool, but seriously, he could have done a lot more just firing arrows. 

 

Malcolm sucks so bad he's making me lose my love for John Barrowman, even from his Doctor Who days. I'm sorry, but I can't help it.

[apinknightmare]

I have NEVER LOVED NYSSA MORE! I am straight but I still want to MARRY HER AND HAVE HER BABIES!!!

Same! So glad she's not dead (yet?).

The show missed a product placement opportunity there. She could've just put some Tide in there!

[Guest]

I'm even more interested in Thea's storyline now. So she kills and the bloodlust is quenched for a few weeks. So what is she going to be like by episode 405 or 406? I'm so intrigued. I'm digging it. I really am!

 

 

The show says many things...many here don't accept what they say about Laurel etc...why should I believe it about what "OTA" is. 

 

You don't have to. But many of us do think OTA = Diggle, Oliver and Felicity. The show does too. So asking us to stop pretending that Felicity is a part of that wasn't going to get a positive answer tbh.

[nksarmi]

But is he not worried about Sara wanting to come after Thea? Is that what's going to get Oliver to call his old friend Constantine? Because even if he's trying to reconnect with Thea and prove her wrong about him, seems he'd at least be concerned about her safety.

I can only assume that is why Sara is in chains.

 

My only question would be why he lets Laurel and Thea take Sara with them next week?

 

Either he doesn't think it through or he figures Thea can kill Sara again if she has to.

[wonderwall]

The show says many things...many here don't accept what they say about Laurel etc...why should I believe it about what "OTA" is. 

I don't count that. Same way I don't count Roy being part of the team in s2 despite helping Oliver. It's when you're brought into the lair you become a part of the team with 1 exception. Ergo there were 14 (13?) eps when Felicity wasn't in the team and it was just Oliver and Diggle. 

 

Or wait...is it 11? (the first two Diggle wasn't on the team)

So you're saying the show, the IN SHOW NARRATIVE, the writers (and the EP who was a part of writing this script, which probably got approval from MG and the rest of the writing team), as well as David Ramsey who constantly talks about OTA are wrong and you, a viewer of the show, are right?

Hmmmm. I mean it's your prerogative. But don't tell other people they're wrong when the show essentially confirmed it.

Edited October 22, 2015 by wonderwall

[AyChihuahua]

What the hell was Oliver trying to do in the first fight when he was providing "air support?" I know they probably thought the bike stunts looked cool, but seriously, he could have done a lot more just firing arrows. 

 

Malcolm sucks so bad he's making me lose my love for John Barrowman, even from his Doctor Who days. I'm sorry, but I can't help it.

I kind of hate Barrowman bc he's always droning on about how much Malcolm loves Thea and Oliver, which...if that's love, love is hate.  I hated the guy who played Maseo for the same reason...Maseo's a good guy, blah blah, he just wanted to murder a whole bunch of people, geez, why you judgin'?  The CHARACTER having insane motivations, fine, but the actor should not.

So you're saying the show, the IN SHOW NARRATIVE, the writers (and the EP who was a part of writing this script, which probably got approval from MG and the rest of the writing team), as well as David Ramsey who constantly talks about OTA are wrong and you, a viewer of the show, are right?

Hmmmm. I mean it's your prerogative. But don't tell other people they're wrong when the show essentially confirmed it.

Ignore list, ignore list.  This episode is too awesome for that shit.  I legit want to sex up: Oliver (not moronic at all so far); Felicity (as always); Digg (let it go, let it go); Thea (badass Moira's daughter); Nyssa (always, plus ruined MM's hot tub).  SO VERY AWESOME.

[foreverevolving]

I kind of hate Barrowman bc he's always droning on about how much Malcolm loves Thea and Oliver, which...if that's love, love is hate.  I hated the guy who played Maseo for the same reason...Maseo's a good guy, blah blah, he just wanted to murder a whole bunch of people, geez, why you judgin'?  The CHARACTER having insane motivations, fine, but the actor should not.

See but you're thinking in "sane person loving" sort of way, Malcolm is anything but sane.. hence the way he loves is not the way you, a sane person, would.

He loves Thea, in his own crazy twisted way. Just think of it like that.

[bmoore4026]

To kill the one who hurt her?  Thea's going to try and kill Oliver, isn't she?  She's gonna lose it and try to kill Green Arrow over some warped logic, ain't she?  Thea fucking shit up for everybody.  Classic Thea.

 

I'd would still be wary around Oliver after everything that happened at the end of last season, but, then again, I'm not Diggle.

 

Bad guy's name was Double Down?  I thought it was King of the Royal Flush Gang!?  Dammit, I want my megalomaniac dressed like a playing card!

[BkWurm1]

First thoughts. 

 

Is Malcolm trying to get Thea to kill again?  I mean, he just told her that the only thing that would quench the blood lust in her is to get revenge on her attacker but Thea is out of luck cause Oliver did it, but Sara’s killer (as far as her instincts go) is Thea so Sara more than anything of course wants to kill Thea.  She wouldn’t know or comprehend the little part where Thea didn’t have a choice. 

 

Maybe we were supposed to think that Malcolm was risking his life to right his wrong but it came off to me like if Thea can keep from killing, then you have to believe that Sara could too.  Which, huh? 

 

Oh Nyssa, you gorgeous thing.  She’s already killed Malcolm and he isn’t even dead yet.

 

The hug between Laurel and Thea after Daddy Dearest gives the okay for Sara was the most awkward thing I’ve ever seen.  Their placement was wrong so it was like Laurel reaching out and yanking Thea into her arms, but neither really looked like they wanted a hug. 

 

I was mostly meh about what Laurel did, you know resigned to it until I saw the preview and what Lance has to consider doing.  Now I’m pissed again.  Yeah, worried about putting him in an emotionally stressful situation. Sell me another bridge in Brooklyn. 

 

I didn’t watch the sneak peaks so let me say, hot damn, Felicity was awesome.  She just shut Oliver’s objection down and was taking no excuses from Dig either.  Dig is still not the warm person I love but I’m thinking losing faith in Oliver left him a bit broken and unable to easily be warm and caring.  He listened to her so I will count that as a win for now. 

 

How grand is it that by the time the boys rolled up not only had she already fended off the attacker from their lair but also sent him hightailing it out of town. 

 

Nit pick.  Where did the secret elevator come from?  This was still QC.  It didn’t exist before and I think Ray would have bragged about putting one in if he had.   

 

Did anyone else laugh when Sara’s arm fell off the stretched she was being lowered on into the pit?  All I could think was that in real life most likely the whole thing would have broken off and made a nice splash. 

 

I don’t get what’s supposed to be happening with FB Oliver.  Disappointed it’s just a hybrid drug.  Don’t they know that in many parts of the world people will willing work in a field and for almost no money?  I mean, pay the workers their crappy wages and save having to pay the men standing around all day holding machine guns. 

 

So Ray is hiding in Curtis’s workroom.  How handy!  Nitpick.  Would Felicity really let a problem with her phone go unfixed for that long?  I don’t think so.

Edited October 22, 2015 by BkWurm1

[wingster55]

So you're saying the show, the IN SHOW NARRATIVE, the writers (and the EP who was a part of writing this script, which probably got approval from MG and the rest of the writing team), as well as David Ramsey who constantly talks about OTA are wrong and you, a viewer of the show, are right?

Hmmmm. I mean it's your prerogative. But don't tell other people they're wrong when the show essentially confirmed it.

 

I'm always gonna say it's wrong. I can't ignore the eps where it was just Oliver and Diggle. The writers and David only latched on to that name because of the fandom choosing that name only when Felicity came on. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm so glad that Diggle told Felicity and Oliver about HIVE. God that was stupid.

[InsertWordHere]

The show says many things...many here don't accept what they say about Laurel etc...why should I believe it about what "OTA" is. 

I don't count that. 

And you don't have to? Felicity the character said she considers, her, Oliver, and Diggle as part of Original Team Arrow and neither of them corrected her. If you don't want to count that, it's fine, but others are allowed to. No pretending involved. Personally, I feel the same way about this as I did about the original Scooby debate during my Buffy fandom days. I like who I like, it doesn't matter if they showed up in episode 1 or episode 54. Some teams just gel well together, and I think Felicity, Oliver, and Diggle always have. 

[statsgirl]

Double Down goes up against Felicity and decides to leave town, Diggle and Oliver make up, Nyssa destroys the Lazarus Pit. Could things get any better?

[kismet]

Diggle and Oliver working it out - I didn't mind Diggle's anger, but I'm really glad they have worked it out and are moving on to the HIVE plot together.  One thing I noted - the guy who didn't kill Diggle in the beginning - I want to know why.  Was that his brother?  It was subtle but it HAS to mean something.  Oh and I love Felicity's line about Diggle shouldn't have been keeping a secret because he's supposed to be more evolved than Oliver - hehe!

 

Most importantly, I can't wait until next week and I did not feel that way last year at all.

I thought the same thing about the guy who didn't shoot Dig.

 

Next week looks absolutely insane, but I also can't wait for it. And that is a great feeling to have again.

[wingster55]

One thing I noted - the guy who didn't kill Diggle in the beginning - I want to know why.  Was that his brother?  It was subtle but it HAS to mean something.

 

Woah, what? I didn't even notice that. 

[bmoore4026]

Probably Fuckboy Palmer

 

Now in dildo size.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm pretty sure Thea did kill those assassins Malcolm sicced on her.  Doesn't bother me, because LOA not Nyssa = evil, and I personally don't give a shit about the heroes killing evil dudes.  Didn't with Oliver, either.  But this is SO MUCH more interesting than Thea just being fixed.  She has to suck it up and buck up and take care of bizness herself.  It's a tough way to grow up, fast, but you want to be a superhero's sidekick, you have to grow up fast.

Now in dildo size.

He's always been dildo size.

 

Seriously, let people be wrapped around the axle forever re who comprises OTA.  Who cares, not worth the argument, because EVERYTHING WAS SO GOOD!  

Edited October 22, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

I'm not feeling the flashbacks again this season. I know it's early in the season but meh. I'm constantly annoyed when we flashback now. I'd rather get back to the present day action.

[apinknightmare]

I thought the same thing about the guy who didn't shoot Dig.

Next week looks absolutely insane, but I also can't wait for it. And that is a great feeling to have again.

Yeah, I'm betting that was Andy. I wonder what skill set he'd have that HIVE would want him for? And if they wanted him badly enough to fake his death or resurrect him or whatever, why would he be running around like a minion instead of doing something more important?

So, maybe it's NOT Andy.

Edited October 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

I'm pretty sure Thea did kill those assassins Malcolm sicced on her.  Doesn't bother me, because LOA not Nyssa = evil, and I personally don't give a shit about the heroes killing evil dudes.  Didn't with Oliver, either.  But this is SO MUCH more interesting than Thea just being fixed.  She has to suck it up and buck up and take care of bizness herself.  It's a tough way to grow up, fast, but you want to be a superhero's sidekick, you have to grow up fast.

 

She definitely killed them. Skewered them to be precise. I don't know why but I'm even more interested in her storyline now. I just think it adds something else. She's gonna have to deal with this bloodlust and learn restraint or completely go to the dark side. It's like what Oliver has had to learn before. It's a pretty great parallel. I like it a lot. 

 

Also I'm just so glad her storyline isn't just 'gets a new love interest' this year.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm pretty sure Thea did kill those assassins Malcolm sicced on her. Doesn't bother me, because LOA not Nyssa = evil, and I personally don't give a shit about the heroes killing evil dudes. Didn't with Oliver, either. But this is SO MUCH more interesting than Thea just being fixed. She has to suck it up and buck up and take care of bizness herself. It's a tough way to grow up, fast, but you want to be a superhero's sidekick, you have to grow up fast.

I don't care about them because they're evil. I care about Thea and what that did to her. This is basically a drug addiction storyline (which actually fits her character). In this case MM is her pusher/former drug buddy who's trying to get Thea to fall off the wagon.

Speaking of Drugs, nice to see the show confirm that it's a poppy field...Although it's a manufactured hybrid drug field but seems like they're sticking loosely to "Year One"

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I'm betting that was Andy.

Guy who didn't shoot Digg was guy who Double Down murdered the first time.  There was definitely something up there, though.  TOOOOO much hesitation.

[Guest]

I thought the same thing about the guy who didn't shoot Dig.

 

Next week looks absolutely insane, but I also can't wait for it. And that is a great feeling to have again.

 

I thought the guy who didn't kill Diggle was the one whose tooth they grabbed - the same one who Double Down killed as a demonstration for DD.

[nksarmi]

Woah, what? I didn't even notice that. 

It's in the opening scene right before Oliver's "air support" I think.  He has the drop on Diggle and a gun in his face and does NOT shoot.  There was enough time for me to think "Can anyone recognize Diggle through that helmet?  Why isn't he shooting?" 

 

Only two reasons I can think - there was something special about Diggle and his brother and HIVE wants Diggle alive for reasons that will be revealed later.  OR somehow without Deadshot knowing it (not sure how), Diggle's brother lived and joined HIVE.

[AyChihuahua]

I don't care about them because they're evil. I care about Thea and what that did to her. This is basically a drug addiction storyline (which actually fits her character). In this case MM is her pusher/former drug buddy who's trying to get Thea to fall off the wagon.

Speaking of Drugs, nice to see the show confirm that it's a poppy field...Although it's a manufactured hybrid drug field but seems like they're sticking loosely to "Year One"

Personally, I am MUCH more interested in Thea now that she has to deal with that shit herself, as Moira Queen's daughter, rather than just being mystically fixed.

 

And  yeah, poppies are now boring.  Drugs = boooooooring.

[apinknightmare]

Guy who didn't shoot Digg was guy who Double Down murdered the first time. There was definitely something up there, though. TOOOOO much hesitation.

Ah, I thought there were two different guys.

[FormerMod-a1]

Discuss the show, not each other. 

Discuss the show, not the fandoms. 

Discuss the show, not how to post. 

Get the picture?  

 

If someone doesn't share your views on the show, just silently sit back and shake your head, secure in your own rightness.

 

And be civil!

[nksarmi]

Guy who didn't shoot Digg was guy who Double Down murdered the first time.  There was definitely something up there, though.  TOOOOO much hesitation.

Yea I don't think so.  There were two guys and the one they took the tooth from was the one Felicity "gift wrapped" for them.  I don't necessarily think the guy with a gun on Diggle was the same guy who got killed that episode. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by nksarmi

[apinknightmare]

I'm not feeling the flashbacks again this season. I know it's early in the season but meh. I'm constantly annoyed when we flashback now. I'd rather get back to the present day action.

Yeah, I don't really care for them either. And I don't get the girl-did she lie about taking the drugs to save someone else from getting killed, or did she take them and let that guy who got shot take the fall for her?

[Guest]

Oh, also Caity Lotz was pretty damn great as cray cray Sara. That leap out of the pit was awesome and much better than when Thea did it. 

[apinknightmare]

Oh, also Caity Lotz was pretty damn great as cray cray Sara. That leap out of the pit was awesome and much better than when Thea did it.

Thea looked like an angry lil sugar glider.

[InsertWordHere]

I kind of hate Barrowman bc he's always droning on about how much Malcolm loves Thea and Oliver, which...if that's love, love is hate.  I hated the guy who played Maseo for the same reason...Maseo's a good guy, blah blah, he just wanted to murder a whole bunch of people, geez, why you judgin'?  The CHARACTER having insane motivations, fine, but the actor should not.

Yeah, Barrowman's interpretation does not resemble my interpretation in the slightest. Bullshit he loves Oliver. whines Can't he just go back to Doctor Who and flirt with Capaldi for a bit? Captain Jack can live forever there, no Pit required!

[AyChihuahua]

The reason I hated, so very much, the idea of Oliver being brainwashed by the LOA (tm Morrigan), was that we'd seen three years of him being INCREDIBLY strong-willed.  Ragey that less than three weeks of early-morning buckets of water to the face made him forget his name.  Thank GOD it was fake.  I am now confident that Oliver's strong will is all Moira Dearden, not Robert Queen.  Meaning seeing Thea struggle with wanting to kill could be, in Willa Holland's capable hands, incredibly interesting.

Edited October 22, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Guest]

Yeah, I don't really care for them either. And I don't get the girl-did she lie about taking the drugs to save someone else from getting killed, or did she take them and let that guy who got shot take the fall for her?

 

I'm not sure. I just thought she took them to give the workers relief from pain meds. 

 

 

Thea looked like an angry lil sugar glider.

 

LMAO. I thought she was more frog-like when she jumped out. Haha. Ribbit ribbit.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Guest

[kismet]

But seriously, why did Malcolm agree to resurrect Sara- right after telling Thea that her bloodlust wouldn't be quenched until she killed the person who hurt her? Sara knows Thea killed her, and Malcolm knows that. Does he secretly have it out for her or what? That makes no sense.

Im beginning to think that it was always part of MM's masterplan to get Thea pitted so that he can have the bloodlust child he always wanted. MM is the Master Manipulator, that's what his initials mean to me. I would not have put it past him to orchestrate all of this so that he got be Ras, got the bloodlust Thea and somehow convinced OQ that he was a reformed man. He could care less about what happens to SL. But it did seem weird he was all for it after being against it. Which only makes me wonder what does he have cooking now?

[Sakura12]

Thea looked like an angry lil sugar glider.

 

I'm going to assume you get better at leap frog the longer you are dead. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm not sure. I just thought she took them to give the workers relief from pain meds.

Yeah, I just wasn't sure if she was telling the truth about taking them or lying to keep someone else from dying. If she was telling the truth, she should've spoke up before someone else got shot in the head for it, haha. Edited October 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

Yeah, I just wasn't sure if she was telling the truth about taking them or lying to keep someone else from dying. If she was telling the truth, she should've spoke up before someone else got shot in the head for it, haha.

 

Oh, could be. I wasn't really paying much attention. Seriously, the flashbacks are dull. I just don't care. But you're probably right. If she took them and cared so much about the other workers, she should have owned up sooner. 

[nksarmi]

I have to say that at this point, I do not care at all about the Flashbacks.  I cared a lot in seasons one and two.  Last year I was a little curious because of Katana and because I thought we were going to see Oliver learn Mandarin (still trying to figure out how he learned it so well that he speaks it "like a native" in season one).  Now I'm just bored with it.  I might have been interested in seeing how he became part of the Russian mafia, but more Oliver on the island?  They need to let this filming location go already - enough is enough.

[dtissagirl]

Nyssa calling Thea "sister in law" through her teeth was A+.

Please come back soon[ish], Nyssa.

[Jediknight]

Probably teeny tiny Ray Palmer.

Now I'm imaging Ray jumping up and down on keys to type out Felicity.

 

Nyssa continues to be Nyssa, which is beyond awesome.

[Guest]

LMAO Ray's still stalking Felicity even when he's miniature size. Hahahaha. Sorry. I had to. I know not everyone thinks he's a stalker. It made me chuckle though.

[calliope1975]

Thumbs up on this episode as well. 3/3 - after last year, I afraid I'd never feel the magic again.

 

Yay for OTA. I'm glad our long national nightmare of my estranged broTP is over. Now, they can work together to find HIVE and DD. I totally understood both guys' POV's, and I'm glad Diggle is willing to try to trust Oliver again. Perhaps ARGUS folk might want to learn how to ring a doorbell, though. After what happened to Sara, that guy could have been deady dead, real quick.

 

Still enjoying DD, whatever his powers may be. I would think everyone can know what he can do, though. If a guy can stop objects and explode people's hearts, that's something I would talk about. Maybe HIVE makes people sign NDA's.

 

Loved Felicity and Curtis. He's reminding me of Cisco, in a good way. I don't believe that Felicity wouldn't have been all over her phone going wonky. If my phone takes more than 2 seconds to do something, I'm concerned, and I'm not a brilliant tech savant. I also don't buy that Felicity doesn't know every possible poker hand. Hello, Vegas! I'll let it slide because she was lying, but the writers have my side eye.

 

I hope Thea gives MM a Best Dad Ever! mug. I kid, he's pretty terrible. His rationale for bringing Sara back didn't work either. I was trying to follow his logic and got lost somewhere in there. I'm glad his magic hot tub is broken.

 

Nyssa, you beautiful unicorn. I adore you. You showed more honor, sympathy, and caring than any raised from birth assassin should. I hope you get your wish of killing Malcolm.

 

Laurel, you're the worst. I have nothing nice to say, so I'll stop there. 

[nksarmi]

Nyssa calling Thea "sister in law" through her teeth was A+.

Please come back soon[ish], Nyssa.

Oh I forgot about that great moment.  She had so many wonderful ones tonight.

[tarotx]

I like everything about this episode. Even the Flashbacks. The Love interest girl was Ok except I don't see Love interest yet. Oliver was very similar in the past and present which could be an issue for some. But the Flashbacks are relatively short so that was a plus. 

 

I loved Nyssa and KL. She was beyond awesome. So happy she's not dead. Loved she poisoned the pit :') Did she jokingly call Thea sister in law? 

 

I love that Sara's back. I hate that she's a mess but at least they are showing repercussions.

 

I hope Laurel suffers. I don't want her to die but I want her to know extreme selfishness brings karma. Sara and Oliver suffered for cheating on her. But ever since Laurel has only bought more and more pain onto herself and her loved ones. 

 

I hope Karma shows Sara that it was Malcolm that had her killed. She deserves to kill him. But so does Nyssa and it's Nyssa's Comic destiny to kill Ra's. 

 

I love Thea and her having to deal with her issues and no quick fix. 

 

Loved OTA. I love that dynamics. And the show repeating it was for emphasis since people were trying to deny Felicity.

[AyChihuahua]

Thea looked like an angry lil sugar glider.

Do not DISS my RABID little sugar glider!

 

So many interesting storylines set up.  So thrilled!

 

 

 

Nyssa calling Thea "sister in law" through her teeth was A+.

Please come back soon[ish], Nyssa.

I want to marry Nyssa.  I would make a good and mostly obedient wife!

 

Do not care about flashbacks, but haven't since Shado and Slade.  Just enjoy pointing out that past!Oliver is still not all that bad.  Kill evil guys, Oliver.  Kill 'em real good.

Edited October 22, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Sakura12]

I want Sara to be happy, but crazy looks good on her.

[statsgirl]

Nyssa calling Thea "sister-in-law" was totally unexpected and totally awesome.  Way to stir up the debate, EPs.

 

Whatever else, you've got to hand it to Malcolm, he's trying.  I bet he really regrets agreeing to Pit Sara

Not buying that Double Down would get to their secret lair so quickly.

The cards were magnetized because of the tattoo ink so all he needed to do was key into the card that Felicity and Curtis had.  Granted the elevator was faster but maybe he ran down the stairs.

 

 

 

Can we stop trying to pretend that Felicity was a part of the original team? That only works if you think Team Arrow began in s2. Which I doubt.

Diggle joined in 1x05 (Damaged), Felicity joined in 1x14 *Odyssey".  Both times, Oliver ceremoniously shook their hands when they joined.  There was a nice playback to that with Felicity shaking Curtis' hand here as he becomes an official member of the team.

 

Roy joined in 2x12 when Oliver brought him into the lair to train him (Tremors) and Sara joined in 2x13 (Heir to the Demon)/2x14 (Time of Death).

 

As well as Oliver's statement in s2 that "this began with the three of us. It's time we got back to that", it really seems that the writers in this episode were emphasizing that there was an Original Team Arrow and the Team is back.

Edited October 22, 2015 by statsgirl