S02.E02: A Matter Of Geography

[meep.meep]

I was glad to see the dog again.

Was the black guy who stopped Kevin in the "visitors center" the same one who Michael went to pray with?

[shapeshifter]

Kevin's dad made a comment that stood out to me while they were having their talk. He said something like "I started listening to them" when asked if he still heard voices. Last season we saw Grandpa yelling at things that weren't there and fighting it, like Kevin is now. I'm wondering if Kevin embracing the crazy might just help him out. Maybe he should be listening to Patty since she's just his own psyche. As for waking up with a cinder block tied around his ankle, I got nothing.

Maybe Kevin's sleepwalking self did listen to the voice of Patti, who told him to tie the cinderblock to his foot and go for a stroll in the lake.

While I don't listen to the type of music, I think it fits with the new venue and, in particular, the extremely diverse campers crowding the park, which IIRC included a few pick-up bands. The song is consistent with the types of themes folk music took on back in the heyday of folk, and seems to me a reasonable take on post-departure songwriting.

I agree, but while that music was playing I kept thinking of the show Weeds, several seasons of which I binge watched around 5 years ago and so heard the similar sounding theme music repeatedly.

Maybe it's just me, but I think Murphy the Fire Chief burning down that guy's house is kind of crazy. That whole town looks pretty wacky, Kevin fits right in.

Definitely crazy, but it's crazy in reaction to crazy events which is the difference to Kevin who, "Garveys at their Best," established was losing it before the Departure. Somebody made the point and I agree with it, Kevin can almost feel like he's on another show sometimes.

Which is how it feels to be crazy in this pretty crazy world we all live in, right? Maybe that's what the whole show its about.

Nora seems to have a few mental screws loose too, but her craziness seems more PTSD, while Kevin comes by his organically--hence the tension between them in how they see things and react to things differently. Nora's ghosts are from the past, while Kevin's are very present.

Edited October 14, 2015 by shapeshifter

[BaseOps]

I really dug the hell out of this episode. Last season took a while for me to get into (I remember it was the episode centred on Matt that really hooked me) but I'm all in now. There's just nothing at all like this on TV - it's frustrating, beautiful, depressing, funny, confusing... everything (I think) a great story should be. I don't mind Patti showing up like some people here do; I was worried that after Kevin confessed what he had done that they were just going to move past his crazy and focus on the new town. But crazy doesn't just go away (what the hell is up with his dad??) I'm really eager to see how all of this comes together and plays out. I thought Nora was ridiculous to go all-in with the $3 Million for the house - and the moment Jill said "she feels safe here" I felt why she did it. And I get Kevin's frustration, too. It's a huge move, to a very, very shitty house and a strange town. 

Edited October 14, 2015 by BaseOps

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Leftovers Reopens Old Wounds
The Leftovers circles back to catch up with our refugees from Mapleton. But is it worth the risk?

[editorgrrl]

Was the black guy who stopped Kevin in the "visitors center" the same one who Michael went to pray with?

Yes. From the recap, http://previously.tv/the-leftovers/the-leftovers-reopens-old-wounds/

Kevin, as if he doesn't have enough going on, is also approached in Miracle by the older gentleman with whom young Michael Murphy went to pray last week. Between this guy, Michael, and Matt Jamison, this is shaping up to be a real Man of Faith/Man of Science kind of a season.

Matt was acting hinky about needing to stay in the "cottage" next to the church. And I'm wondering if John Murphy will somehow use his son to keep tabs on Matt.

[Cardie]

The black man who approached Kevin is played by Steven Williams, well known to SF fans as Rufus on Supernatural and Mr. X/Deep Throat on The X-Files. Some have theorized that he may be the person John tried to kill, and John's father to boot.

[Ronin Jackson]

I actually decided I was out after season 1, but I decided to check out the first two episodes after hearing it was a bit of a mini-reboot. And whatever they are doing... I'm not entirely sure what it is yet... but it's working because I'm already more interested then I was at any point last season..

 

I actually like the new opening credits. The old one was rather heavy handed, but this one, with the happy pics and happy music with certain people erased evokes a sadder tone. I think that's really been more what the show is going for, how people deal with grief and guilt, rather than the quasi-religious tone that the previous credits evoked.

 

I'm not all in on ghost Patti, but I will say that she's an improvement over living Patti. But I do hope the GR doesn't show up again. So far the concepts introduced in season 2 have been interesting and the mysteries curious, where was the sum of the entire GR storyline in season 1 was about as interesting as nails on a chalkboard.

 

I'm not expecting any explanation of the mysteries, but they keep evoking it, which is curious. I wonder if it was an HBO mandate. Even the whole mini re-boot thing seems to smack of at attempt to change course. Whatever the case may be it was a good idea and so far I'm interested. Still it's probably not a good idea to expect much as far as explanations go. I've got unresolved trust issues with Damon Lindelof so I'm not going to be surprised if the bottom falls out of my recharged interest eventually.

[Pallas]

Quote

Maybe Kevin's sleepwalking self did listen to the voice of Patti, who told him to tie the cinderblock to his foot and go for a stroll in the lake.

I wondered about that too, shapeshifter, but I don't think Patti wants Kevin dead at all. From the beginning of the show, she went to progressively greater extremes to provoke him, to unnerve him, to light a match under him. Patti doesn't want to kill Kevin in his sleep: she wants him to WAKE UP.  

It's not only that she told him this, which she could have said for fun. But while Patti played rough with Kevin, she also seemed a little sympathetic to him -- in his public role as police chief, and perhaps even more with regard to his private role as Laurie's husband. She certainly showed no hints of sympathy to anyone else, and particularly not to Laurie. Laurie was useful to her and she used her. Kevin was useful to her as a foil, and Patti used him too, but not malevolently. More like a researcher with a lab animal. If Kevin hadn't already come with a name, she'd have given him one. And a cigarette. 

The Departure did Patti the favor of giving her, not a reason for her craziness, but a voice for it. Which she chose to express paradoxically. For Patti, the world of pain after the Departure was her world; she knew her way around it; she'd never lived anywhere else. Patti struck me as someone who'd previously spent her life trying to convince strangers -- everyone else -- that she was not garbage,  That her obvious unhappiness did not erase her from the human race, that her heavy spirit did not excuse their neglect, that in some ways at least, she was like them. All that changed for Patti after the Departure was that she now had a calling: to force the remaining 98% to admit that they, too, were in anguish, and going nowhere. That they were like her.  

When their roles reversed and postulate Laurie confessed to superior Patti about her marriage, Patti realized that she and Kevin had something in common: the Departure hadn't made them crazy; they were three stops past Go before.  Patti saw that among the good people of Mapleton, Kevin Garvey -- for all of his good family and good fortune and Hollywood good looks -- was someone like her. Not only like her, but close to being crazy enough to admit it. 

Patti made Kevin her mission. He was to be her stalking horse to the rest of the world. So before she died, Patti maneuvered Kevin into kidnapping her (as she wearily acknowledged to him, since he was being an idiot about understanding this). Then in the cabin, she tried to rouse him any way she could. Rouse him -- like a drill sergeant with a new recruit -- for his own good. Even tied up and merely mortal, she could have persuaded the somnambulant Kevin to free her and kill himself. That wasn't what she wanted. Her mission was to explode this one man into consciousness, at any cost. And now that she's dead, with all the power of the departed, she hasn't given up. She will make him admit that he can see her, that he hears her. And that this means he's no more or less human than she was.

Of course, dead Patti would probably be the first to say that she isn't really there anymore. That what Kevin is experiencing is just a projection, a personification, of one part of his own conflict. Even so, I think his giving her name to this part of himself still approaches what the real Patti had in mind. She'd say, I don't know how to make this any easier for you: see me or wake up.

[BaseOps]

So is the consensus here that Kevin is actually seeing Patti's ghost, or just that he's losing it? I was sort of going with her being his twisted imagination, but I guess anything is really possible here. 

[txhorns79]

So is the consensus here that Kevin is actually seeing Patti's ghost, or just that he's losing it?

 

I feel as though I've missed something.  Is anyone arguing that Patti is an actual ghost?  I know people have called her "Ghost Patti," but I didn't think that was meant literally.  My presumption is she is representative of Kevin's guilt regarding various issues, and his increasingly destructive reactions to his vision of her are a sign of his declining mental health. 

[shapeshifter]

So is the consensus here that Kevin is actually seeing Patti's ghost, or just that he's losing it? I was sort of going with her being his twisted imagination, but I guess anything is really possible here.

I am still assuming Patti is now just a projection of Kevin's psychosis, especially because we know she is dead--we even saw the body, which is TV-talk for "really dead."

Given the premise of the show, it's possible that disappeared people still live in an alternate universe--maybe one where Kevin, Nora, and all the others we see have disappeared. And I would not be annoyed to learn that the show's main character has a window into that other universe. But Patti's dead.

ETA: But to Kevin, she seems like a "ghost."

Edited October 15, 2015 by shapeshifter

[BaseOps]

I feel as though I've missed something.  Is anyone arguing that Patti is an actual ghost?  I know people have called her "Ghost Patti," but I didn't think that was meant literally.  My presumption is she is representative of Kevin's guilt regarding various issues, and his increasingly destructive reactions to his vision of her are a sign of his declining mental health. 

 

Yea I thought some people were insinuating that it was her 'spirit' or 'ghost' - i.e., using her own thoughts, words, etc. But I believe that we're just seeing Kevin's projection of her. 

[Cardie]

I am in fact arguing that Patti is a ghost. Granted, she could be part of Kevin's psychosis but the Sudden Departure was a supernatural event and I have no trouble believing that ghosts are real in the show's universe.

[izabella]

That's an interesting question.  I've been assuming that Patti is just part of Kevin's individual brand of crazy, along with the generally violent and deadly sleepwalking excursions.  His dad hears voices, though he never mentioned visions or sleepwalking, so, it seems that something could run in the family.  Kevin's dad was hearing voices before the departures, so it wasn't necessarily related to that supernatural event.  Was Kevin sleepwalking before the departures?

 

After the police released Kevin and Patti appeared in the truck, she asked, "Now what did you go and do that for?"  To me, that sounds like a question Kevin would ask himself after digging up her body and all.  It follows neatly with the sheriff's question, "Are you trying to blow up your life, Kevin?"  So I guess I'm leaning toward believing Patti is a voice from somewhere in Kevin's subconscious.  And her determination to get Kevin to acknowledge her is coming from Kevin refusing to acknowledge something important, the truth of which he doesn't want to face.

Edited October 15, 2015 by izabella

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

(Moved this from S1 Ep 1 thread because it belongs here...)

I missed Regina King's family this week. The actor playing her husband is killing it and I'm really interested in what was up with Evie and her friends. I like Nora and Kevin's daughter (sorry I'm blanking on names!) but if Ann Dowd is going to be around bugging Kevin all season, it's going to make me not like Kevin. Poor little Lily seems to be the one often taking the brunt of Kevin's delusions - he puts in his earbuds to drown out Patti, but in the same process he ignores the baby. He seems downright miserable, trapped, and joyless about that little baby. Thank goodness Nora and the other daughter are there to love on her and will be there for her if Kevin completely cracks. Maybe it's cause I have an infant myself, but I was so upset when Kevin yelled at Nora and Lily looked scared & started crying. Poor baby! Kevin seemed more upset about leaving his dog that ruining his tenuous "new family" with Nora, his daughter, and Lily because of his delusions/anger. You know what might make Kevin feel better and relieve some tension? A run. In jogging pants. (Yeah, I know, not gonna happen this season blah blah.) ;) Parti annoyed the crap out of me when she didn't talk (as did the entire GR) but holy cow, I long for silent Patti now.

So do you all think Kevin's dad is really "cured"/got better?

Also, is Liv Tyler's character coming back this season? If so, I'm wondering if the 3 month old white baby the social services worker offered Kevin & Nora (so strange) somehow has something to do with her character (I haven't really worked out that theory any further yet....)

[Clanstarling]

That's an interesting question.  I've been assuming that Patti is just part of Kevin's individual brand of crazy, along with the generally violent and deadly sleepwalking excursions.  His dad hears voices, though he never mentioned visions or sleepwalking, so, it seems that something could run in the family.  Kevin's dad was hearing voices before the departures, so it wasn't necessarily related to that supernatural event.  Was Kevin sleepwalking before the departures?

 

So do you all think Kevin's dad is really "cured"/got better?

My vague recollection is that both his dad and either Patty, or the woman who was stoned, both had something going on (visions in the Dad's case?) that gave them the feeling that something was coming prior to the departures. Kevin's Dad didn't really claim to be cured, IIRC, he said he just started listening to what the voices were telling him.

 

The beauty of the way this is set up is depending on your inclination, you could see them as harbingers of something real - after all the departures did happen. People disappear all the time - and had before the Departure. Maybe there were mini-departures leading up to the big event.Or maybe they were all sharing the same psychosis. 

 

I don't have a real opinion about whether Patty is a ghost, a manifestation of Kevin's psychosis, or something else. I'm enjoying her more this season, and I like the mystery of her presence. Supposedly we're not going to get any explanations, so all options are on the table. 

 

Though it would be a twist to end the series with an explanation - after swearing there wouldn't be one. I'm not holding my breath.

Edited October 16, 2015 by clanstarling

[shapeshifter]

I am in fact arguing that Patti is a ghost. Granted, she could be part of Kevin's psychosis but the Sudden Departure was a supernatural event and I have no trouble believing that ghosts are real in the show's universe.

I'm still hoping there might be a "scientific" reason for the event, and having the government buy Nora's house (for at least allegedly scientific study) signals that possibility--although by no means rules out supernatural explanations.

Though it would be a twist to end the series with an explanation - after swearing there wouldn't be one. I'm not holding my breath.

ITA with this whole post, especially this part.

[NorthstarATL]

I liked the return of the craziness that was the first season with the focus on the Garveys et al! I totally get Nora's motivation for finding a place that was not affected by the disappearances, especially after the talk with the students. I also really enjoyed that the MIT guys mentioned something that was very important and frustrating to me last season: that the "event" could happen again. I think that that feeling has to inform the characters in the way that any traumatic event does the real world. That's what I saw in the adoption scene. People would be less willing to commit, because committing means that eventual loss will be that much worse. I can also see why Evie's disappearance is shaking up the first episode's POV family: because their town hasn't experienced this yet. I was surprised when Kevin or Nora mentioned early in the ep that they had not had a report from Missing Persons about the baby. What IS Missing Persons after the event? How long before they settled back into routine? Why wouldn't any claims be met with "Again?" as a response? I guess my reasons for sticking with the show are similar to mine for loving "The Walking Dead". I couldn't care less about why things are the way they are, but I am intrigued to see how people within the worlds of the shows react to their new normal.

[shapeshifter]

I was surprised when Kevin or Nora mentioned early in the ep that they had not had a report from Missing Persons about the baby. What IS Missing Persons after the event? How long before they settled back into routine? Why wouldn't any claims be met with "Again?" as a response?

I guess they probably have a Post-Event Missing Persons bureau/task force/department, just like they had a formal census for the left overs (which Nora worked for).

[NorthstarATL]

I guess they probably have a Post-Event Missing Persons bureau/task force/department, just like they had a formal census for the left overs (which Nora worked for).

I remember that! I figure with Missing Persons that it must be like any violent occurrence now where they immediately rule out terrorism, that they must have to give thought to, and then rule out, a reoccurrence of the disappearing each time a missing persons report is filed.

[editorgrrl]

I really enjoyed that the MIT guys mentioned something that was very important and frustrating to me last season: that the "event" could happen again. I think that that feeling has to inform the characters in the way that any traumatic event does the real world. That's what I saw in the adoption scene. People would be less willing to commit, because committing means that eventual loss will be that much worse.

I was surprised when Kevin mentioned that they had not had a report from Missing Persons about the baby. What IS Missing Persons after the event? How long before they settled back into routine? Why wouldn't any claims be met with "Again?" as a response?

I assume we'll soon see how missing persons investigations work in Miracle National Park. Kevin and Nora need to find jobs. Can crazy Kevin be a cop again? There's no Bureau of Sudden Departure in Jarden, but plenty of other civil service jobs for Nora.

I, too, thought the adoption scene meant fewer people are adopting after the Sudden Departure. And I liked that they're showing how society has changed after a traumatic event.

[shapeshifter]

I, too, thought the adoption scene meant fewer people are adopting after the Sudden Departure.

My initial reaction was that it had to do with race in ways mentioned above (perhaps it was a test of some sort), but I now agree that the point of the white baby was more likely that white babies are no longer a precious commodity in an adoption market. However, I'm thinking the reason might be that more adults than babies disappeared (Laurie's unborn child not withstanding), which could hearken back to Reverend Matt's belief that the taken were not those "sanctified by God" according to Christian "rapture" beliefs, but rather the relatively less morally pure.

[thuganomics85]

Interesting episode, in that it was one of those cases where it basically felt like another premiere for the second season, only we focus back on the Garverys again, instead of introducing the Murpheys like last week.

 

I actually thought this episode brought some fun humor to it.  I loved the confession scenes )"I kidnapped Patti during a sleepwalking haze, she killed herself, so I got your brother to help me bury her!  Odd... then again, I'm into hiring hookers to shoot me!"), and a lot of Justin Theroux's reaction shots/deadpan lines slayed me.  It's kind of funny that Kevin can be so insane the majority of the time, but other times, he's kind of reacting the way same I'm reacting when watching the show.  I'm about as flummoxed as Kevin half of the time.

 

Of course, Nora would blow all her money on a house in Miracle, without even looking at it.  Nora herself, as always been known to pull insane stuff like that.  According to Jill though, it sounds like a lot of it was because she was freaked out over the idea that another rapture or whatever could happen again, and thinks Miracle is the safest place.

 

So, it looks like the reason Ann Dowd is sticking around is because Kevin is now hallucinating Patti.  It had it's moments, but it is always one of those cases were it could get tiring very quickly (see: Harry on Dexter.)

 

I'm going to guess Kevin will have nothing to do with the disappearance of the girls.  He either tried to kill himself in a sleepwalking phase, or "Patti" convinces him to try and do it.

 

So far, I'm enjoying this season more then last season.  I think the new city and the new characters, bring a freshness to it, and I'm curious to see more of the Garveys and Murpheys, and how they interact with one another.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I actually thought this episode brought some fun humor to it.  I loved the confession scenes )"I kidnapped Patti during a sleepwalking haze, she killed herself, so I got your brother to help me bury her!  Odd... then again, I'm into hiring hookers to shoot me!"), and a lot of Justin Theroux's reaction shots/deadpan lines slayed me.  It's kind of funny that Kevin can be so insane the majority of the time, but other times, he's kind of reacting the way same I'm reacting when watching the show.  I'm about as flummoxed as Kevin half of the time.

.........

So, it looks like the reason Ann Dowd is sticking around is because Kevin is now hallucinating Patti.  It had it's moments, but it is always one of those cases were it could get tiring very quickly (see: Harry on Dexter.) .

I totally agree with what you're saying about Justin Theroux's acting in the series. I really like his character and want to continue to like Kevin. But I'm already tired of Patti, which makes me annoyed with most of Kevin's scenes. Ugh.

[cpierce]

I suppose I'm in the minority here, but I LOVE Patti and I am glad she's here in this season. And what "Pallas" stated earlier is spot on. Kevin needs to start listening to her and stop fighting her, but I think he is afraid that by doing so, he risks ending up like his dad. After all, he saw very clearly that his dad was talking to apparitions that weren't there.

And something else I'm wondering: What about that National Geographic magazine article that Garvey senior went on about?

[shapeshifter]

And something else I'm wondering: What about that National Geographic magazine article that Garvey senior went on about?

Well, you could slog through this REDDIT post: reddit.com/r/TheLeftovers/comments/2dh35z/season_1spoilers_a_lindeloffian_look_at_national

Speaking of National Geographic Magazine...

About the MIT geography theory:

Assuming Laurie and the baby are the proof that geography is not relevant, do we know if Kevin was aware of what happened with the baby, or even of the baby's existence? I don't recall. Because if he did, and if he was mentally alert enough at the moment when the million$ were offered because of the geographic implications of Nora's house, that would be a little bit of plot/character development. But I don't think he knew, and I seriously doubt he was thinking about it if he did.

So it probably isn't geography, or at least not entirely. Maybe the ultrasound waves had something to do with it? I don't know enough physics to speculate beyond that.

Or maybe it has to do with a critical mass of distinct DNA at each geographic hot spot for disappearance? --with certain locations able to suck up more unique DNA coded-beings than other locations?

[meep.meep]

The MIT guys came across as investigating a crack pot theory - I don't think it holds any weight. I also don't think you are going to get any better explanation of why they disappeared. As far as this show goes, they just disappeared and no one knows why and no one knows whether it will happen again.

[quangtran]

I don't think the theory from the MIT guys was supposed to hold that much weight either. They were there to simply get Nora out of her house and spell out the episode theme (aka the episode title) of people having a fresh start by moving.

[WearyTraveler]

Well, as Cardie pointed out, Nora's house presented a statistical anomaly because three people separated only by a very short distance disappeared.  It is heavily implied that the other people who disappeared were not as close to each other as Nora's family were.

 

So, from a scientific point of view, her house is worth looking into, specially the area around her kitchen table.  So, they were there to investigate that, positing that geography might have been a factor.  I don't think it would be the only factor, given Laurie's baby, but then again, the MIT guys didn't say that either.

 

We may never know the reason for the disappearances (and that's ok by me), but I think it's logical for the show to have people (be them from MIT or somewhere else) trying to figure out the mystery.  It's what we humans do.  It is why we study space, and do scientific research.  Some theories become laws (gravity), others are never declared laws but the preponderance of evidence suggest they are true (evolution), some theories are proven false (the Earth is flat).  That's how scientific research works.

[moissien]

 

 

Well, as Cardie pointed out, Nora's house presented a statistical anomaly because three people separated only by a very short distance disappeared.  It is heavily implied that the other people who disappeared were not as close to each other as Nora's family were.

 

So, from a scientific point of view, her house is worth looking into, specially the area around her kitchen table.  So, they were there to investigate that, positing that geography might have been a factor.  I don't think it would be the only factor, given Laurie's baby, but then again, the MIT guys didn't say that either.

 

We may never know the reason for the disappearances (and that's ok by me), but I think it's logical for the show to have people (be them from MIT or somewhere else) trying to figure out the mystery.  It's what we humans do.  It is why we study space, and do scientific research.  Some theories become laws (gravity), others are never declared laws but the preponderance of evidence suggest they are true (evolution), some theories are proven false (the Earth is flat).  That's how scientific research works.

Well, not only that but Kevin was inside another human when she disappeared, so that, in addition to Laurie's baby disappearing would blow the MIT scientists theory out of the water. 

[Pallas]

But again, the anomaly is that three people close together disappeared. The prevalent pattern, it seems, was what we see in the new opening credits: one person among a couple, several people, or a whole group. And that would fit the pattern of Kevin's lover disappearing, but not Kevin; of Laurie's fetus disappearing, but not Laurie.  

 

Nora asked, "You mean, if I hadn't gotten up to clean the spill..." and the research team confirmed that this is what they suspected. But only because in this one case, in this one place, everyone present within touching distance of each other, disappeared together. Nora may be unique in knowing that it really might have her. Not instead-of, but along-with.  

[Milburn Stone]

Kevin and the cinderblock are not so mysterious. He's been having blackouts during which he does crazy things. Perhaps this time he decided to rid himself of Patti after she led him to the site of the girls' disappearance and he feels responsible for it happening. Or maybe his subconscious is simply suicidal.

 

That's where I am. With the addition that whatever is the "something" that is making people disappear, it doesn't want Kevin to disappear. The "something" went so far as to drain an entire river just to make sure Kevin didn't kill himself despite his most fervent wish to do so. Whatever it is, it apparently will do whatever it takes, even to performing miracles, to keep him alive.

[shapeshifter]

Or maybe his subconscious is simply suicidal.

That's where I am. With the addition that whatever is the "something" that is making people disappear, it doesn't want Kevin to disappear. The "something" went so far as to drain an entire river just to make sure Kevin didn't kill himself despite his most fervent wish to do so. Whatever it is, it apparently will do whatever it takes, even to performing miracles, to keep him alive.

I was leaning towards both of these conclusions, but also considering that the suicide-proneness could be either limited to Kevin's sleep walking self or caused by some Lostian supernatural power, i.e., The Man In Black, or, in this case, The Woman in White.

I hope I'm wrong.

[pfk505]

Just catching up now.  Super lame that they brought back Ann Dowd to be a ghost.  What a tired, boring trope.  Writers wanted dramatic payoff last season yet want to have their cake and eat it too so they bring her back as Dexter's dad.  LAME.

 

I thought the premiere was brilliant but this was a bit mediocre and Lost-ish.  The last scene was ridiculous.  We'll never get any answers, yet the performances will be phenomenal and I'll keep coming back.

Edited November 28, 2015 by pfk505