Indian Summers - General Discussion

[Constantinople]

Did Alison tell Ralph that she wished she could go on holiday?

 

What does Miss Whelan think she's doing now?

[editorgrrl]

Did Alison tell Ralph that she wished she could go on holiday?

Alice was reminiscing with Ralphie about their shared childhood. In the first episode, she said she was sent to boarding school when she was eight and Ralph was thirteen. She never saw her parents again, and spent holidays with a great aunt in Frinton-on-Sea.

Now we know Ralph was there, too, when they received the bad news about their mother. The aunt had them shake hands when they parted. Perhaps that's when Ralph returned to India?

[Milz]

Okay, I'll admit I've enjoyed the scenes with his parents.  I'd watch a show with them.  But without Aafrin and his mouthy sister.  Don't like either of them.

 

I agree with you. I like Mom and Pop Dalil and I like the little sister (so far). But Sooni??? She's like  the Meat Head on All in the Family, always yammering on about some socio-political issue. If Aafrin were more like Archie Bunker, the interaction might be amusing. As it is, she just runs her mouth ad nauseum.

[skyways]

What?? I like her!!! especially mocking her 'I'll pray for the Prince of Wales' dad. Serves him right. She will grow up to be Maharaja and rule them all. lol

[ddawn23]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought Jaya looked like Rosario Dawson.

So obviously the young Scot is going to be an early suspect in her murder, what with Cynthia already having it out for him, him being near enough to the scene to hear her screams, and the whole "Are you suuuure you can walk home alone?" exercise. My money's on Doug the missionary as the culprit. The way Leena reassured Adam that Jaya would never hurt him again-- she worded it with too much certainty.

I feel bad for Sita. Aafrin is the one person in her life that's not constantly shitting on her, and it looks like he's going to toss her aside for a fling with Alice that is simply too taboo to be endgame. I would much rather be dumped for a woman who went on to be the love of my ex's life than somebody he has a fling with.

I suspect we'll see Alice's husband in the flesh before the end of the series.

ETA: Oh, and are we to understand that Jaya was the Indian land owner Ramu Sood's "late" wife? And if so, could he be behind her burn scars? I know Cynthia is an obvious suspect for that too.

Edited November 4, 2015 by ddawn23

[editorgrrl]

Are we to understand that Jaya was the Indian land owner Ramu Sood's "late" wife?

Jaya broke into Sood's home and stole a wedding sari he said belonged to his late wife, Kavitha. I didn't get a good look at the photo of the couple—are you saying it was really Jaya? When McLeod asked when Kavitha died, Sood changed the subject.

Edited November 4, 2015 by editorgrrl

[ddawn23]

Oh, I missed the part where we got Sood's wife's name. And we got such a short look at the photo that to me it wasn't clearly Jaya and it wasn't clearly not Jaya. Then with Jaya stealing the wedding sari (and knowing where to look for it) and Sood's changing the subject when Ian asked how his wife died I thought they might be setting up a reveal that Jaya was Sood's wife and he maybe flipped out and burned her when he found out about her and Ralph.

[Constantinople]

Jaya broke into Sood's home and stole a wedding sari he said belonged to his late wife, Kavitha. I didn't get a good look at the photo of the couple—are you saying it was really Jaya? When McLeod asked when Kavitha died, Sood changed the subject.

 

I was about to respond that there was no reason to believe that Jaya is Sood's wife since Sood said his wife is dead and at the time, Jaya was still very much alive.  Lying about his wife's death serves no purpose, so why would Sood pretend his wife was dead?

 

Then the phrase "Miss Whelan" popped into my head.

 

That said, I don't think Jaya was Sood's wife.  Partly, it would be a lot harder for Sood to pull off the dead spouse lie than for Miss Whelan (not that it's particularly easy for Miss Whelan since her story falls apart as soon as anyone spends a microsecond looking into it); partly, I think Sood would see the futility of trying to pull off such a lie; partly, I'd like to think the writers aren't such dedicated environmentalists that they're already recycling story lines (ETA: Now that I think about it, the writers are already onto their second murder mystery, although the first was an attempted murder mystery).

Edited November 5, 2015 by Constantinople

[LaChavalina]

I agree with you. I like Mom and Pop Dalil and I like the little sister (so far). But Sooni??? She's like  the Meat Head on All in the Family, always yammering on about some socio-political issue.

I was more turned off by the scene where Aafrin complains to Sooni about how hard his life is. He thinks he's being oppressed why, exactly? Because he was handed a work opportunity he didn't deserve? Because his parents decided to reach out to the girl he wanted to be with, until Alice came along to proposition him? Meanwhile, if he rejects Sita, her life will be completely in shambles.

 

Jaya is not Sood's wife. They also referred to her as a "Tamil woman," so she traveled there from a different part of India entirely--one where she presumably knew Ralph at another stage of his life. For anyone having trouble keeping up with the stories, The Guardian did write-ups on each episode when they originally aired in the UK and they help to clarify things a bit. Here is the one for Episode 6.

[Milz]

I was more turned off by the scene where Aafrin complains to Sooni about how hard his life is. He thinks he's being oppressed why, exactly? Because he was handed a work opportunity he didn't deserve? Because his parents decided to reach out to the girl he wanted to be with, until Alice came along to proposition him? Meanwhile, if he rejects Sita, her life will be completely in shambles.

 

 

 

I think Aafrin is the family's main breadwinner. Pop Dalil doesn't work (don't know if he gets a pension, probably doesn't get disability). Mom Dalil doesn't have a job either.  So, he works for the Raj, and comes home to hear his big mouth sister chastise him for essentially being a sell-out. Big mouth doesn't consider if it wasn't for Aafrin's job  her fresh mouth would be begging for money.  Her resentment towards the British is understandable, but very hypocritical because it's the Brits who hired Aafrin so his family can have a place to live.

[proserpina65]

So obviously the young Scot is going to be an early suspect in her murder, what with Cynthia already having it out for him, him being near enough to the scene to hear her screams, and the whole "Are you suuuure you can walk home alone?" exercise. My money's on Doug the missionary as the culprit. The way Leena reassured Adam that Jaya would never hurt him again-- she worded it with too much certainty.

 

I think Cynthia had her lackey take care of Jaya.

[skyways]

So obviously the young Scot is going to be an early suspect in her murder, what with Cynthia already having it out for him, him being near enough to the scene to hear her screams, and the whole "Are you suuuure you can walk home alone?" exercise. My money's on Doug the missionary as the culprit.

 

 But I will point you to that scene where the Sood guy sent some people after her to find what she took. So it's obvious who would be blamed.

As for Aafrin why wouldn't he lash out?? He knows he's a puppet and can't do anything about it. I do sympathize. He wants things but the only way for him to get them is to often be or say what he doesn't mean. Do you remember when he sat on that horse? I think he was ordered to learn how to play polo or something I don't recall. He looked ridiculous and there were some Indians behind him giggling while he tried not to look afraid. That's the way he feels. So I sympathize.

Edited November 5, 2015 by skyways

[LaChavalina]

I don't much like Sooni, either. But make no mistake, Aafrin was initially very happy to take the opportunity that was handed to him and to be their puppet. Only now he's starting to realize he's backed into a corner. He's started to see how rotten the system is from the inside, but it doesn't justify lashing out at his parents when they try to support his career and relationship choices. That's just my opinion, I see it as "be careful what you wish for."

[Diffy]

Why wouldn't the untouchable guy eat at dinner?  

 

That scene was one of the few things I liked in this whole mess.  Improbable and anachronistic but well written and played with dignity by the actor. 

 

Ralph has caused something of a diplomatic crisis by inviting Dr. Kamble the Dalit (Untouchable) to dinner with Hindus.  He's trying to win the Dalits over to the British side and away from Gandhi's primarily Hindu Congress Party.  It was a rookie mistake that the supposedly brilliant Ralph should not have made and his boss is angry with him.  Under varna (caste) system, high caste Hindus cannot/will not eat with Dalits.  The servants originally refuse to serve him.   Alice saves face by demanding that he is given a meal by the servants, but Dr. Kamble knows that his eating will create mayhem and all the Hindus walking out, so he says he is not hungry.

 

To the total surprise of everyone a Maharajah actually greets Dr. Kamble after the meal.  Lord Willingham (Ralph's boss) jumps to the conclusion that this means that it wasn't a total disaster and the Maharajahs are OK with the presence of a Dalit.  Dr. Kamble explains to Ralph later that this was just one exceptionally enlightened Maharajah and not representative of general attitudes at all.

 

In theory, caste-based discrimination was ended by law in 1950.  However the Dalits are still discriminated against today.

 

I'm not sure whether I can watch the rest of this production.  Some of the acting is really good and the costumes and scenery are lovely, but the only characters I like so far are little Adam, Mr. Sood and Dr. Kamble.  The rest of the characters are either one dimensionally evil or annoyingly stupid.  Alice is a twit and Aafrin is self-righteous fool. Yuck.

 

Editing to add thoughts:  Did anyone else get yet another incestuous vibe in the scene where Ralph and Alice were talking about having to shake hands to say goodbye in Frinton on Sea?  I immediately thought that Auntie had picked up on some inappropriate touching.  It does appear that Ralphie went to Chillingborough after all.;)

Edited November 5, 2015 by Diffy

[proserpina65]

Editing to add thoughts:  Did anyone else get yet another incestuous vibe in the scene where Ralph and Alice were talking about having to shake hands to say goodbye in Frinton on Sea?  I immediately thought that Auntie had picked up on some inappropriate touching.  It does appear that Ralphie went to Chillingborough after all.;)

 

Absolutely.  Incest bells going off all over the place.

Edited November 5, 2015 by proserpina65

[Milz]

I don't much like Sooni, either. But make no mistake, Aafrin was initially very happy to take the opportunity that was handed to him and to be their puppet. Only now he's starting to realize he's backed into a corner. He's started to see how rotten the system is from the inside, but it doesn't justify lashing out at his parents when they try to support his career and relationship choices. That's just my opinion, I see it as "be careful what you wish for."

 

I agree that Aafrin is seeing that the grass isn't greener on the other side. But I can see why that disillusionment + Sooni's big, fresh mouth = lashing out.  Seriously, her mouth is the last thing anyone would want to hear after a long day at work. That's why I don't understand why Mom and Pop haven't smack the fresh out of it yet.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Milz

[magdalene]

Nods. I don't like Sooni.  She has some of the typical characteristics of a radical - abrasive, intolerant, thinks she is smarter and knows better than anybody else.

[Brattinella]

My Indian and/or Hindu history is lacking, can anyone answer me this:  Why is Sooni not smacked across the face for her smart mouth?  I am pretty sure in India/1930's the Father would have the power in the family.  I can't see this Mother or Father letting this whippersnapper get away with that!  Surely they weren't rearing Special Snowflakes way back then, right?

[albaniantv]

Just a guess, but maybe the families who placed such a high value on education--for example, the father reads aloud from legal texts and expects all family members to take the information on board--are less likely to smack their whippersnappers across the face. 

[JudyObscure]

I don't know, my parents were well educated, my father had an IQ over 150, and they wouldn't have hesitated with the slap. Sassing was the worst thing, and they were protective of each other with it, so I expected Sooni's mother to say, "Don't you dare talk to your father like that." Sooni is not only disrespectful, she went extra low to listen to someone else's prayers and ridicule them. I don't blame her for having different views from her parents, just the way she expresses them.

[JudyObscure]

Ralph has caused something of a diplomatic crisis by inviting Dr. Kamble the Dalit (Untouchable) to dinner with Hindus. He's trying to win the Dalits over to the British side and away from Gandhi's primarily Hindu Congress Party. It was a rookie mistake that the supposedly brilliant Ralph should not have made and his boss is angry with him. Under varna (caste) system, high caste Hindus cannot/will not eat with Dalits. The servants originally refuse to serve him. Alice saves face by demanding that he is given a meal by the servants, but Dr. Kamble knows that his eating will create mayhem and all the Hindus walking out, so he says he is not hungry.

Thank you Diffy! I've been trying to make sense of the scene by figuring out what the servant gave Dr. Kamble to eat and I really didn't believe him when he said he was full, because that in itself would be a little bit rude at a dinner party. Your explanation makes sense to me. He knew if he ate, the high caste Hindus could not, so he was saving them all from a big show down.

Loved the recap, LaChavalina posted, too.

Edited November 6, 2015 by JudyObscure

[candall]

I was all about the writing this week.

 

I've started thinking Ralph might be too inconsistent.  It was an odd move to make Nefarious Ralph so solicitous of Jaya.  I fully expected her to be the one getting the rock to the head treatment, from Ralph being in a panic at other people approaching.  But then, no, it seems he's just going to stick with what's worked for him in the past--using his position to dole out sugar plum favors in exchange for loyalty.  Oops, nope, Ralph'll flat push you down the damn stairs and leave you with a skull fracture.

 

One & done Captain Farquhar was a big time suck.  He didn't exactly live up to his foreshadow cobra.

 

I don't think McLeod will be blamed for Jaya.  This looks like a good opportunity for the Brits to rid themselves of Mr. Sood, with Weak Tea McLeod his only alibi witness. 

 

But I'm giving this show huge credit for writing a man who says:  "I'd like to accept the sex being offered, but it's too much of a risk because of all the people who depend on me."  RARE, sooooo rare.  Will he continue to be morally strong?  Oh, those girls in their summer dresses. . .

 

Finally, ha, if I ever have a dinner guest I despise, I'm going to tell him I'll understand if he has to eat with his hands.

[Neurochick]

Shit, the British really sucked back then. That's all I can say about this episode. If Ralph had any balls he'd get rid of Cynthia, what a bitch.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Neurochick

[JudyObscure]

Oh, those girls in their summer dresses. . .

Candall gets the award for best literary reference !

 

I can't think of anyone but Ralph who would have prompted that happy expression on Jaya's face and, "Oh you came!" 

 

Watching the mean people butcher my favorite play was pretty awful.  Cynthia makes my skin crawl. It was a fine moment when McLeod told her, her acting was awful. He's turning out to be a surprisingly good person.

 

Could Aafrin and Alice's relationship get any more highschool?

[Milz]

 

Could Aafrin and Alice's relationship get any more highschool?

 

 

 

Heh! Mebbe the writers watched a lot of John Hughes movies when they were growing up?  I bet you can edit a montage of Aafrin kissing Alice, Aafrin confronting Alice, Alice looking heart broken as Aafrin walks through the arbor, Aafrin snuggling with Sita, Alice watching them snuggle, etc. with any of the following 80s songs providing background music: anything by Air Supply,  Peabo Bryson's "If Ever You're In My Arms Again", Orchestral Manouevres in the Dark "If You Leave", Chicago's "If You Leave Me Now", Glenn Frey's "The One Who Loves You", Robert Plant's version of "Sea Of Love',  or Lionel Ritchie's "Hello".

[ddawn23]

I can't think of anyone but Ralph who would have prompted that happy expression on Jaya's face and, "Oh you came!"

It's established that her eyesight is bad, and it didn't look to me like she was actually focusing on the interloper. She certainly thought it was Ralph, but I don't think we have much reason to believe it was, what with his reactions to her and her death.

[magdalene]

I think Ralph is a manipulative and scheming bastard who is always playing the angles and quite capable of doing physical violence to someone - as we saw last episode with the stair incident.  But I don't believe he killed his ex-lover.  I do however believe Cynthia would not hesitate to hire someone to get rid off this "inconvenience" from her dear Ralphies past.

 

I can't believe how naive MacLeod was being in this episode.  Yeah, Sood is a dead man walking.

[skyways]

I can't believe how naive MacLeod was being in this episode

 

Why? It's believable with some westerners who visit foreign countries for the first time and run into some thing that offends their own interpretation of justice and 'how things are supposed to be done properly'.

[taanja]

late to the game.

When this show first started I looked for it here under it's name. It didn't occur to me until today to look under "Masterpiece" Duh!

I have been loving this show. I read all the posts here but I obviously don't watch shows the way others seem to do. I take them at face value. I don't look for deeper meaning or production flaws or writing errors. I just enjoy the eye candy.

Yes! Ralph and Alice are incest is best kind of siblings. The way they look at one another? The way Ralph fondled her hair in that one scene a couple episodes back. Dude!

Ralph has become my favorite character. I loved him pushing that man who was Alice's husbands friend? down the stairs. Vicious! and also the way he will coldly use what is her name? Madeline? and just as coldly snub her. Ole Ralphie is a piece of work to be sure.

I am thinking the preacher man killed Jaya.

[Milz]

Does Ralphie know Maddy and her family are broke? He seemed detached from her at the club.

[lucindabelle]

 

Thankfully Mercy Street (a Civil War medical drama airing on PBS in January) is filmed in Virginia. But they can completely screw up on the "Southern accent" the actors/actresses will/won't have.

 

as if there's just one "Southern accent," too. Sigh. Like when I saw a production of "Playboy of the Western World" and some of the town were from cork (the accent they were doing), others from Dublin, one or two from Donegal... and one critic praised the accent work! Well yes. they all did accents.

Anyhow, using Jewel In the Crown as my reference for the Raj, the cultural insensitivity shown is probably 21st century revisionism. The Brits have been in India for at least 100 years. They know of the different cultures and traditions of the various Indian ethnic and religious groups. So if they intentionally served a Hindu beef or a Muslim pork, they were being asshats. What being asshats would accomplish within the context of trying to get support against the Congress forces me to suspend reality even more that it already is.

 

Yeah. It's interesting that the PC thing now is to make it even worse than it was. In Downton Abbey, the PC thing is to make people shrug about homosexuality. On "Call the Midwife" the PC thing was to pretend somehow Jews got out of the "Nazi ghetto" (um, do you mean DEATH CAMPS?" with things like silver picture frames. Sigh.

 

Maybe he wasn't sure of the dozen forks was the right one to use?  There was a shot of the multitude of silverware around the plate.

 

Good point.

 My money's on Doug the missionary as the culprit. The way Leena reassured Adam that Jaya would never hurt him again-- she worded it with too much certainty.

I feel bad for Sita. Aafrin is the one person in her life that's not constantly shitting on her, and it looks like he's going to toss her aside for a fling with Alice that is simply too taboo to be endgame. I would much rather be dumped for a woman who went on to be the love of my ex's life than somebody he has a fling with.

 

 Sita? Sita is the one who did NOT get the note. And now is effing lying about it. I have ZERO sympathy for lying, evil Sita. She could be responsible for Aafrin's father going to jail or worse. She put her pride above her love, and to me, that's pure EVIL.

 

Surprised nobody is talking about "The Importance of Being Earnest" and Ralphie's "Do you know me at all" to Madeleine. i had an Englishman say that to me once. It is NOT pleasant. It is a polite way of saying "get the fuck out of my face."

 

I don't think he likes her.

 

I don't understand his connection to Cynthia. Apparently he doesn't either.

But now I don't think Cynthia was involved in her death. I can't imagine why the missionary would do it, but I lack another suspect.

 

He did seem broken up about Jaya. I'm very curious about her and their past. She's not a beauty, especially. But he clearly loved her and is full of remorse.

 

i love Ted. Love.

 

And I love this show. It isn't boring me. It's pretty. it makes more sense thatn "Downton Abbey."

[skyways]

it makes more sense thatn "Downton Abbey."

 

 

hahaha...........are you among those in shock??

 

She's not a beauty,

 

I think there's flashback scene somewhere that surprised me how nice-looking she could be/have been.

[magdalene]

Why? It's believable with some westerners who visit foreign countries for the first time and run into some thing that offends their own interpretation of justice and 'how things are supposed to be done properly'.

Oh, I know that.  It just seems to me he is extra gullible and over the top naive - believing that mentioning Sood's involvement to the police would have no consequences for the man. Sood will probably hang for this murder and MacLeod didn't have to help the process along.

[Constantinople]

I'm curious about Sgt Singh.  If Singh were on the level, he would have returned "Chandru Mohan's Congressional Party Membership Paper" to his ranking officers (I was about to say superiors, but I'm not sure they deserve that).

 

Is Sing just a corrupt cop looking to blackmail Aafrin, or is he playing some other game?
 

If Ralph had any balls he'd get rid of Cynthia, what a bitch.

Cynthia is therapeutic for Ralph.  Her presence lets Ralph feel as if there's someone worse than him.  Whether or not Cynthia is actually worse than Ralph is debatable, but she at least lets him preserve the illusion.
 

Could Aafrin and Alice's relationship get any more high school?

Probably not, but the whole place, at least among the British and those who get sucked into the British orbit, is like high school.

[Diffy]

Oh, no!  Mr. Sood is definitely headed for the gallows and he's one of my only three likable characters.  Dr. Kamble and Adam being the others, although Aafrin's younger sister, whose name I forget, has her moments.  Young Ian gets to be both somewhat heroic and unforgivably naïve.  Is the cheating missionary getting a little annoyed with his loved one, whose name I also forget, because she took the responsibility for telling Adam his mother had died?  How very insubordinate of her!

 

Aafrin continues to mess around with the emotions of the lying Sita (who risked a lot of scandal by snogging a Parsi in a graveyard) and the not-widowed Miss Alice Whelan.   As Alice supposedly left her husband because he was unfaithful to her, why is she snogging in the shrubbery with Aafrin?  You'd think she'd want to avoid breaking up the relationships of others.  The hussy! 

 

Aafrin, get over yourself.  You are not all that attractive and you are really not a very nice person.

 

And the soap opera continues.

 

For books about the last days of the Raj, I haven't seen MM Kaye mentioned above, although I have seen Paul Scott and Forster references.  I recommend her autobiographical trilogy:  Sun in the Morning, Golden Afternoon, and Enchanted Evening.  The last book goes up to the beginning of WWII.  I read them a long time ago and my favorite was Sun in the Morning when she writes about growing up in Simla.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Diffy

[pasdetrois]

 

Ralph has become my favorite character.

The actor is doing a damn fine job. He manages to rise above the soap opera atmosphere.

 

I wonder if McLeod will somehow shame the British into doing the right thing and free Sood?

[stanleyk]

Sita? Sita is the one who did NOT get the note. And now is effing lying about it. I have ZERO sympathy for lying, evil Sita. She could be responsible for Aafrin's father going to jail or worse. She put her pride above her love, and to me, that's pure EVIL.

 

 

Can I ask someone to break down for me exactly what happened there? I missed the fourth episode and it's not available streaming through PBS. I'm getting pieces here and there from what people are saying, but I'm missing what this note business is. Aafrin took the document, and then...sent a note to Sita and told her to give it to Sooni? But Sita didn't? And we don't know why?

 

I was also irritated by McLeod's naivete, in part because it seemed unrealistic and anachronistic. I don't think it explains it to say that he believes justice is the same for everyone. He's a white British man living in the 1930s - the system is explicitly set up to disfavor whole swathes of people and it was hardly a secret. He more likely would have thought that was the natural order of things than to be surprised that a man with brown skin was being railroaded and beaten by the cops. He lived in a society that was not only virulently racist and discriminatory, but openly so. I mean, hell, women had only gotten full enfranchisement a few years earlier! 

[Constantinople]

Can I ask someone to break down for me exactly what happened there? I missed the fourth episode and it's not available streaming through PBS. I'm getting pieces here and there from what people are saying, but I'm missing what this note business is. Aafrin took the document, and then...sent a note to Sita and told her to give it to Sooni? But Sita didn't? And we don't know why?

I forget exactly who created it -- I think Kaiser was involved, but I'm not sure -- but a forged Congressional Party membership document was created for Chandru Mohan to make it look as if his failed attempt to shoot Ralph was politically motivated. The paper was "found" on Mohan, allegedly sewn in his clothes.

The police interviewed Aafrin to see what he "remembered" Chandru Mohan saying when he fired at Ralph. During the interview, the police officer was called away. Aafrin found the forged document, took it and hid it in the most obvious place imaginable (in a chest, under a bed at his home).

To find the missing forgery, a dinner party was set-up and everyone who had access to the document was invited, including Aafrin. The plan is to search for the forgery while all the suspects are away from their homes and under observation.

Aafrin figures out what is going on and writes a note to Sooni in which he tells her to destroy the forgery. Since Aafrin can't leave the dinner party, and Alice can do whatever she likes, including being addressed by her maiden name, Aafrin asks asks Alice to deliver the note to Sita so that Sita can then deliver the note to Sooni. Ralph tells Alice she can find Sita at Aafrin & Sita's creepy make out spot, the local cemetery.

Alice delivers the note to Sita. Sita goes to the Dalal household, but doesn't knock and doesn't deliver the note. I forget why. I'm not sure if she's upset about Alice, or doesn't feel comfortable at Dalal's home, knowing that Aafrin's mother wants her son to marry a good Parsi girl.

During the search of Aafrin's house, Sgt. Singh found Chandru Mohan's forged membership paper in the most obvious hiding spot in the world, but kept the forgery for himself. In the most recent episode, Sgt. Singh showed the forgery to Aafrin. Since the document wasn't destroyed, Aafrin concluded that Alice failed to follow instructions.

And PBS really should make the episodes available on demand longer, or on-line at all.

[attica]

Once it occurred to me that Ian McLeod looks just like Pete Campbell (from Mad Men), that's all I can see now. Now all I want is for him to say to Rountree "Not great, Bob!" in a Scottish accent, and my life will be complete.

 

I enjoyed Julie Walters playing Cynthia playing Lady Bracknell. JW has played that role herself, so it was fun to see her doing it badly.

 

I felt bad for poor Mr. Sood who had to play the Marginalized Population Exposition Fairy for most of the episode. That kind of thing is usually more spread out.

[taanja]

Does Ralphie know Maddy and her family are broke? He seemed detached from her at the club.

Ralph seems detached from her even when he's fucking her. From the very beginning it has come across to me that he is just using her cuz she is easy.

[proserpina65]

On "Call the Midwife" the PC thing was to pretend somehow Jews got out of the "Nazi ghetto" (um, do you mean DEATH CAMPS?" with things like silver picture frames. Sigh.

 

No, they didn't mean death camps.  The Jewish ghettos, such as the one in Warsaw, were different from the death camps.  They were specific sections of a city in which Jews were segregated, often the poorest sections of the city.  Many of them predated the Nazis, who found them quite useful as holding areas from which to transport victims to the work camps (which came first) and the death camps (which followed later).  There were some escapes from the various ghettos, Warsaw in particular had a brief uprising in its ghetto, but whether anyone who escaped would've been able to carry personal possessions is another matter.

 

Back on topic: the Great Sepoy Mutiny was sparked by Muslim and Hindu soldiers working for the British East India Company being forced to use gun cartridges which had been greased with beef and pork lard.  Of course, that was a good 60 or so years earlier, so maybe the British learned a little sensitivity by the time in which this show takes place.

[proserpina65]

I was also irritated by McLeod's naivete, in part because it seemed unrealistic and anachronistic. I don't think it explains it to say that he believes justice is the same for everyone. He's a white British man living in the 1930s - the system is explicitly set up to disfavor whole swathes of people and it was hardly a secret. He more likely would have thought that was the natural order of things than to be surprised that a man with brown skin was being railroaded and beaten by the cops. He lived in a society that was not only virulently racist and discriminatory, but openly so. I mean, hell, women had only gotten full enfranchisement a few years earlier!

McCloud hasn't been in India very long.  He was only just arriving from Scotland to stay with his uncle when the show started.  Now, I'm not saying Scottish society wasn't racist and discriminatory, but given that the uncle was obviously far from truthful in any letters he sent home, I find it quite believable that the young man would have little idea how things work in India.  Yes, he's very naive, but, for me, it fits the storyline.  And he's one of the few likeable characters, so I'm just going with it.

 

I'm not sure why I'm even still watching this.  Maybe just because it was between two shows which actually interested me.  I'll probably watch next week to see what happens with Mr. Sood's trial, and may finish out this season from sheer inertia, but I doubt I'll bother with any future seasons.  Not unless there's someone really hot to look at, which so far there hasn't been.

[magdalene]

The actor is doing a damn fine job. He manages to rise above the soap opera atmosphere.

 

I wonder if McLeod will somehow shame the British into doing the right thing and free Sood?

The actor is excellent and the character is the most interesting to me because he has layers and is not a stereotype like some of the others. Cynthia is just eeevil with another coating of eevil on top. Sita is an abrasive and one-note radical. And Sood is just there to be a tragic and doomed example of the oppressed masses.

But Ralph is manipulative but vulnerable. Dastardly but also sensitive at times. All his relationships are intriguing. All his reactions are interesting. And I loved him when he pushed that jerk off the stairs. That was so startling to me. I love it when fictional characters surprise me. Ralph has done that several times.

[dcalley]

I missed the fourth episode and it's not available streaming through PBS.

It's at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch-online/full-episodes/indian-summers-episode-4/

 

And PBS really should make the episodes available on demand longer, or on-line at all.

Things are generally available for one month at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/watch-online/

[candall]

Cynthia is therapeutic for Ralph.  Her presence lets Ralph feel as if there's someone worse than him.  Whether or not Cynthia is actually worse than Ralph is debatable, but she at least lets him preserve the illusion.

I think the story implies that Ralph would be nowheresville without Cynthia's years and years of puppeteering.  I also have a sneaking suspicion that Cynthia will turn out to be Ralph's mother.  Her financial status/club doesn't seem to depend on him, so the bond must be blood.

 

This was a tough episode.  I was liking NO ONE during the first half and now I'm forced to pin all my hopes for the future on Weak Tea Mcleod.  For someone as lost and lonely as he--who's that friendly blonde, anyway?--he's certainly being pressured with some mighty tasty carrots and a big painful stick. 

 

Mr. Sood!  I understand you're our underhero, but that whole "never mind about me, save yourself" speech to Mcleod defied credulity.  Really?  They started out adversarial and have progressed to Mr. Sood hosting Mr. Mcleod for a brandy when he wasn't welcome at the whitey club.   But I haven't exactly seen a bond of brotherhood formed.   Why on earth would Mr. Sood be willing to die rather than see Mcleod lose face offering a legitimate alibi?

 

Okay, you're bitter!  But you're also drowning and Pete. . . I mean Mcleod is the only life preserver at hand!

[attica]

Why on earth would Mr. Sood be willing to die rather than see Mcleod lose face offering a legitimate alibi?

 

I didn't read it that way. I read it as Mr. Sood being disheartened enough to think that McLeod's efforts wouldn't help him, so there was no point in McLeod going down too.

[proserpina65]

I didn't read it that way. I read it as Mr. Sood being disheartened enough to think that McLeod's efforts wouldn't help him, so there was no point in McLeod going down too.

 

I read it in a similar way: that Mr. Sood is realistic enough to know the prosecutors will do their very best to discredit McLeod's testimony because the powers that be in Simla have wanted to be rid of Sood for ages and are perfectly willing to fake evidence now that they've been given a plausible excuse.

[candall]

I agree that Mr. Sood is disheartened, realistic about the systematic bias and resigned to his fate.  But he doesn't want to die.  I don't see discouraging the only person whose testimony stands between him and the gallows, even knowing the chances are slim and that Mcleod's efforts might. . .will surely. . . cost him.

 

After all, Mr. Sood owns a great deal of land.  He could fill Mcleod's pockets with enough rupees to send him home to Scotland in good shape, leaving behind whatever contempt he incurs for defending an Indian. 

[lucindabelle]

No, they didn't mean death camps. The Jewish ghettos, such as the one in Warsaw, were different from the death camps. They were specific sections of a city in which Jews were segregated, often the poorest sections of the city. Many of them predated the Nazis, who found them quite useful as holding areas from which to transport victims to the work camps (which came first) and the death camps (which followed later). There were some escapes from the various ghettos, Warsaw in particular had a brief uprising in its ghetto, but whether anyone who escaped would've been able to carry personal possessions is another matter.

Back on topic: the Great Sepoy Mutiny was sparked by Muslim and Hindu soldiers working for the British East India Company being forced to use gun cartridges which had been greased with beef and pork lard. Of course, that was a good 60 or so years earlier, so maybe the British learned a little sensitivity by the time in which this show takes place.

Please, those ghettos weren't the Nazi ghettoes and nobody but a nonJew would ever call them that. They were just the ghettos.And the Warsaw ghetto was the only one with an uprising and everyone left in it was shipped to a death camp.

I am well aware of the history and I was beyond offended by that episode of call the midwife although I don't know why, when British dramas routinely equate the bombing of Dresden with auschwitz (not that show in particular). And no, people did not get out with their stuff. If hey got out with stuff they left before it as a ghetto. Not to mention they wouldn't call it a Nazi ghetto.

In Europa europa they showed a few people crawling through the sewers to get out. And then escaping to the forest. Nobody, but nobody, left with picture frames etc. that is a wholesale fantasy, like the weirdness of an Ashkenazi Jew putting a red string on a baby's wrist.really annoying to those of us who'd have loads of extended family and dual citizenship to this day if that knd of thing (escape with memorabilia) were remotely possible.

Just a little sensitive. It's 75 years since kristallnacht this week. Anne frank would be 86. She died weeks before the war ended. People often seem to think (sorry really not meaning to attack you just this trope) this is some ancient history we can only speculate about but it isn't... My dad fought in that war. I'm Jewish. I dislike that particular retrofit a lot and I imagine Indians watching this show (to bring it back on track) have pretty strong feelings about its use of history t flatter PC sensibilities.

Edited November 13, 2015 by lucindabelle

[radishcake]

Guys continue to be respectful in these conversations as you know they can get heated. PM if you have any questions.