S31: Ciera Eastin

[Oholibamah]

At the end of the day, Ciera circumvents every criticism waged against young female players: she is not passive, she calls out the power players, and she is scrappy as hell.

She could get voted out next and has still more than justified the "inflated" opinion viewers had of her after BvW. Her performance at TC was hilarious.

[pennben]

I'll take an Abi driving a dagger into the heart of Savage quote, "at least you made jury", over juvenile (in my opinion only) theatrics of eyerolls and flipping off folks.

[kikaha]

At the end of the day, Ciera circumvents every criticism waged against young female players: she is not passive, she calls out the power players, and she is scrappy as hell.

She could get voted out next and has still more than justified the "inflated" opinion viewers had of her after BvW. Her performance at TC was hilarious.

 

Leave out the "s" of scrappy and you have my view of her. 

 

She is not playing well, even as she admonishes all the others.  And she's wrong.  They ARE playing the game.  Just not the way she wants.  The most inflated opinion of her play is in her own mind. 

[LanceM]

I don't get it. Season after season I see on this board and others players on the bottom of an alliance get criticized by viewers for not making any moves to better themselves in the game.  Now we get Ciera making basically the same argument in the game that those on the bottom need to make moves, and she gets criticized for saying it.

[LadyChatts]

There's a bonus clip this week of Kimmi talking about playing UTR and while she may be playing a quiet game, she's trying to remain observant and give her opinion when needed.  To me, that's classic getting booted when your alliance doesn't need you anymore.  Ciera, she's on the bottom, and I'm glad she's raising a stink.  She may get voted out next, but at least she tried.  And she can have a good laugh from the jury box when she's proven right.  After the vote this week, I am hoping that things get shuffled.

Edited November 12, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Ms Blue Jay]

LanceM, she is just annoying about it and saying it over and over again onscreen.  That's very different than us armchair strategizing on a message board.  There are certain things that don't need to be said ad nauseam on television directly at the players you're playing with.   There is a time and a place for having a mega opinion on the correct strategy to use at Survivor and every week at Tribal Council is just not it for me.

 

Biding your time and making your move when the timing is right is a lot better play to me than just hopelessly trying to vote out Joe or Next to Joe at every council.  All 9 players in that alliance are basically in somewhat similar spots and it's kind of hard to tell who's in a better spot than you right now.  Jeremy is in the best spot because he has an idol.  Spencer is in a great spot because for some reason both 'sides' of this game seem to like and trust him.  Joe is somewhat in a good spot because he kills at ICs.  The rest are playing under the radar or trying to play over the radar but nobody cares (Stephen).

 

Ciera saying "make big moves" in her stupid dumb voice is her acting like everything is cut and dry and black and white.  She's basically saying vote for who I want to vote for, that's good Survivor gameplay.  Nah... it isn't always, it just worked out for her tonight.  And like another poster posted out, she didn't even know about Kelley's idol so she got caught in some very dumb luck.  Not good strategy at all.

 

I really, really, really never saw Andrew as some great threat to win this game.  Did he win any ICs or even get close?  Does anyone REALLY like him enough to give him the million?  Apparently Spencer did but he liked him for idiotic reasons and then Andrew kind of blew that up.  Andrew is not good at Survivor strategizing, period, even before this Wentworth move he made that very clear.  He was stubborn and did not know how to go along with things.  Even Keith can stick to a plan and ride things out.  And he's a much bigger immunity threat.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[pennben]

She may get voted out next, but at least she tried.  And she can have a good laugh from the jury box when she's proven right. 

 

I don't understand this notion. 19 of 20 are going to lose.  If she's on the jury she lost and didn't play a winning game. Who's to say others not playing the game with her made a mistake?  Everyone is going to lose but one, but Ciera is going to tell us the proper way to win?!

 

It's like the tired, but overused, 'if they would have aligned with me, they could have won' thing all the losers do. 

 

If she ends up on the jury, she can laugh away with Kass and Savage, but that doesn't make me think she will be proven right, just that she lost like whoever else ends up on the jury with her.

Edited November 12, 2015 by pennben

[LadyChatts]

I don't understand this notion. 19 of 20 are going to lose.  If she's on the jury she lost and didn't play a winning game. Who's to say others not playing the game with her made a mistake?  Everyone is going to lose but one, but Ciera is going to tell us the proper way to win?!

 

It's like the tired, but overused, 'if they would have aligned with me, they could have won' thing all the losers do. 

 

I don't know that they would have won, but they might have finished better than they originally did.  I'd want to give myself the best chance possible.  If I felt like I was at the final 5 at least vs finishing 9th, I'd take it.  The longer you are in the game, the better your options are.  Someone's finishing 9th regardless, but I bet everyone of the 9 in Jeremy's alliance likely doesn't think it'll be them.  I'm glad she's trying.  Beats the Sierra of last season, who was completely invisible, talked big in the two confessionals we saw all season, but was a sheep who never planned on making a big move, and expected to win because she was nice, even though her game was crap.  I actually loved Ciera's eye rolling.  At least someone isn't afraid to be candid.

Edited November 12, 2015 by LadyChatts

[pennben]

I think it's easy to be candid when you are on the bottom, not so easy when you are part of an actual majority alliance.  Maybe she'll win, kudos if so.  But if she doesn't, it doesn't make her right, it makes her out like the rest will be.  She will of course tell us how she was best, as I assume Savage will.  I won't believe either.

Edited November 12, 2015 by pennben

[LadyChatts]

Fair enough.  And you are likely right, if she was in the driver's seat, she likely would be acting differently (much like Kimmi and Tasha, who have nothing to worry about-for now.  Who knows what next week will bring).  Since she is in the bottom 3 of a now 11 person tribe, I don't blame her for acting the way she is.  She's trying.  At least she and Kelley appear to be.  I don't know what made Abi get quiet all of a sudden, but I kind of miss the opinionated devil we saw early on, that somehow managed to dictate votes when it seemed as though she was in the worst position to do so.  Work some magic ladies!

[KimberStormer]

Ciera messed up before, resulting in being on the outs; now that she is on the outs, she is doing it right.  I'll take getting called ridiculous names on the Internet over not being able to live with myself because I went home "waiting for the right time" like a chickenshit instead of blowing up the game every single second I could with everything I had to blow it up with, fighting tooth and nail.

[pennben]

Well, sure, Ciera is playing "right" when she's on the bottom, it doesn't mean the others are playing "wrong", just because they too aren't rolling their eyes.

[Oscirus]

How is Ciera playing right? Talking alliances with people and then calling them out at tribal is not a good way to establish long term trust. If her plan is to become a goat and get carried there, while settling for third then I guess this is a way to go about that.  I'll admit that she makes for good tv but her gameplay leaves a lot to be desired.

[pennben]

Yeah, I just came back to edit my post.  The only thing Ciera really did "right" tonight was to be in an alliance with someone who had an idol and knew when to play it.  That person played being in the bottom "right".  But sure, eyeroll away Ciera.  She exposed a tight four (or five) was it that she said controlled the game, while sitting with a tight three....and the ones in the middle are dumbasses?

 

Man, I'm going to be eating a lot of words if she wins!!

Edited November 12, 2015 by pennben

[LadyChatts]

It really is a YMMV, but the way I'm looking at it, Ciera was at the bottom.  If she just sat there like a bump on a log I don't think that was going to have people coming to her.  Right now she's in the worst position possible, and trying to find allies by telling a group of 9 that someone will be gone once herself, Kelley, and Abi are.  Someone will be 9th, 8th, 7th, until those bottom feeders have no where to turn.  Either way it would be risky for someone to flip or stay where they are.  A lot can happen in this game.  I'm just happy she's trying to make something happen for herself, even if she isn't successful.  I'm glad she is calling people on the carpet, so to speak.  I kind of thought she was proving a point tonight, when everyone seemed to give the safe answer of 'there is no core group', two of the core members unconvincingly tried to shake off what she had said about them calling the shots, and Savage talked as though those girls were beneath his alliance and couldn't comprehend that people are just supposed to accept their position and bow out gracefully.  Stephen didn't handle it well, either.  I don't know that her plan is to be a goat, just to get people to maybe question their position, and if it is a good one.

[kikaha]

I agree with Oscirus.  Ciera is not winning other players to her side.  Her strategies are not getting her allies and her further in the game.  She was clueless about Kelley's idol, until the second Kelley played it: she thought either Kelley or she was going home. 

 

She got very lucky the majority didn't split the vote.  (I'd love to hear why.)  She got lucky she wasn't voted out the previous tribal as well.  Listening to her whine about others not playing the game -- and thinking she is some master strategist/game analyst -- seems to me one of this season's biggest absurdities. 

 

Ciera is one of several people left who I really hope does not win.  Others on that list include Keith, Kimmi, Kelly and Abi.  People I'm pulling for the most now are Kelley and Jeremy.  In some ways I feel this was actually a better episode for Jeremy than for Kelley.  She lost an idol and had to come out of the closet, which could put a much bigger target on her back.  Even though Jeremy lost an important ally, he's still in the majority, did NOT raise his profile, has at least one sure jury vote if he makes finals, and still holds that idol in his pocket.  

 

There are so many fractures, and this boot opened up so many possibilities, I bet this season shifts into even higher gear from here till the end.   

[LadyChatts]

She got very lucky the majority didn't split the vote.  (I'd love to hear why.)

 

 

I'm sure Savage will get asked this, but from the secret scene clip, they didn't think she had one.  The logic was if she had one, she would have played it by now (not sure why they thought that, since she never really had a need to play it until tonight.  And from Ciera's twitter, Joe told her that they were gunning for Kelley, so they probably knew there wasn't going to be a vote split).  Not sure if Joe did that as a way to keep the peace with the ladies or if it was just him trying to be a nice guy so they'd know what to expect.  Why they split the vote other times this season until now, I don't know.  Just glad they didn't.  I don't know that it puts Jeremy in a good position.  This might get people thinking about idols now, and wondering who else might have them.  I mean, I think Jeremy is well allied so he probably doesn't need to worry for the time being, unless Ciera/Abi/Kelley are successful in getting people to flip.

 

The one thing I find amusing about Ciera's edit is that, much like Kimmi and Monica, she was invisible a good percentage of the season.  Now that she's getting screen time she's polarizing, just like those two were.

Edited November 12, 2015 by LadyChatts

[Oscirus]

Kelley and Ciera were in the same position going into tribal. One used her time to plant seeds to further herself in the game and the other chose to get on her pulpit and tell others how to play. I'm not saying to lay down and die, but at the same time she has to realize that the "nuke the earth" option isn't conducive to her well being in the game.

[Sarahsmile416]

Kelley and Ciera were in the same position going into tribal. One used her time to plant seeds to further herself in the game and the other chose to get on her pulpit and tell others how to play. I'm not saying to lay down and die, but at the same time she has to realize that the "nuke the earth" option isn't conducive to her well being in the game.

Exactly. And the fact that they were gunning for Kelley and not Ciera tells me they think more of Kelley's gameplay (and they are right to!). She can gloat all she wants to, but had they been smart and split the votes, she would have been gone and eye rolling her time away on the jury.

[cherrypj]

Kelley and Ciera were in the same position going into tribal. One used her time to plant seeds to further herself in the game and the other chose to get on her pulpit and tell others how to play.

 

What did Kelley do to "plant seeds"?

[Oholibamah]

Exactly. And the fact that they were gunning for Kelley and not Ciera tells me they think more of Kelley's gameplay (and they are right to!). She can gloat all she wants to, but had they been smart and split the votes, she would have been gone and eye rolling her time away on the jury.

And laughing her ass off as Keith, Kimmi, Wigglesworth and Spencer join her there.

Her point isn't that people aren't playing the game, it's that they are waiting too long to make moves. She corrected this part of her pitch this week.

Is it possible that Kimmi has a legit F3 deal? Sure. But she could make a new one with Spencer and Keith, flip to Ciera's side, and have a much stronger chance of overpowering the "core" of 3 small women later than the core of the brolliance.

I've heard it said that Tribal is the wrong place to make this pitch, but Ciera WAS swayed at Tribal in BvW. Most people aren't (because most people don't have the balls), but it isn't unheard of.

I'm not trying to argue she's necessarily playing well. I think she is, but am fine with others feeling differently. However, at least she's trying something... We'll see if the pawns she is making her pitch to can say the same down the line.

[kikaha]

What did Kelley do to "plant seeds"?

For one, she did not name the person from Bayon who approached her about making a big move.  While Ciera was grandstanding, trying to name the four (or is that five?) people running Bayon, Kelley was showing she could be trusted, even as she got her point across.  And her point -- that Bayon was already showing fractures -- was far more compelling than Ciera complaining about playing the game.  

 

I think Kelley is the one who chose Savage as the one to go.  The other two did not know she had an idol.  They thought they were going to the slaughter at tribal, and were naming Savage just to try and make him squirm.  Only Kelley knew that the person they voted for was almost surely going home that night. 

[Zuleikha]

When Peih-Gee couldn't get Denise to flip in China, we all understood that the fault was with Denise for being timid and just going to final four with a trio that barely bothered to conceal their plans to vote Denise out. IMHO, that's the same position Ciera is in right now (Peih-Gee, not Denise), and she's trying everything available to her to convince people (and let's be real... we all know she's directed these comments at Keith, Wigles, and Kimmi for sure, probably with some hope that Spencer, Stephen, Joe may consider them) not to be a Denise. I don't think that's bad play at all.

 

I also think she's right. It's not that mysterious where the core of the alliance is, and those on the bottom are running out of time to shake things up. Kelley/Ciera/Abi is not a tight alliance either, where clearly the best you can hope for is a jump to 4. Kelley didn't even vote with them last vote, and Abi and Ciera have barely spent much game time together (and Abi's flipped on every previous alliance she's been part of). 

 

I also don't think Ciera did anything wrong to end up on the outs. Maybe she would have jumped ahead of Kelley or Wigles in the voting line up if she'd voted out Spencer with Savage, but once the easy boots were out, Savage signaled pretty clearly how little he valued her. She and Kass took a gamble that would have paid off had merge been when it typically was. It was earlier than typical, and they lost the battle for numbers. Had they won the battle, I wouldn't think Tasha or Savage or Jeremy had played poorly either. Someone was going to lose, and someone was going to win. Everyone who loses doesn't do it because they play badly.

[ProfCrash]

Ciera is in the same place that Jenn, Hali, Joe and Shirin were in last season. Everyone complained that Jen and Joe were far too passive in dealing with the situation. Ciera is at least trying to point out that there are people at the bottom of the alliance but she is dealing with a bunch of brick walls.

 

The strength of Jeremy's game is that he has convinced a bunch of folks that they are his main alliance. He has Stephen and Kimmi firmly on his side. I think he has Joe as well. He has protected his folks when there has been pressure to remove them .Andrew should have been asking why Jeremy is so resistant to getting rid of Stephen but seemed to miss what that meant. So I am sure that Kimmi thinks she is second or third in her alliance. And why shouldn't she? Jeremy should want to take Kimmi to the finals over Tasha or Joe or Andrew.

 

Ciera's real problem is that she has not figured out the sub-alliances that she is dealing with in order to be able to play them off each other. She knows that there are folks on the bottom but she does not fully understand the group dynamic so she cannot pick at those folks.

 

Ciera is doing exactly what Shirin did last season with about the same amount of grace and tact that Shirin used and probably the same result.

[Oscirus]

She keeps talking about this broliance which is obviously not there. Hell, two of the people she named last night are openly targeting each other. Her pitch is pretty much jump to her three to take out those men and play for fourth.  How is that better then what they're doing now?

[Ms Blue Jay]

The one thing I find amusing about Ciera's edit is that, much like Kimmi and Monica, she was invisible a good percentage of the season.  Now that she's getting screen time she's polarizing, just like those two were.

 

Personally I do not find Monica polarizing, that is way overstating things.  I'd be hardpressed to form even the most minute opinion on her.   I feel nothing about her.  Kimmie is a bit annoying but I do not find her polarizing.  I do find Ciera, Abi, and Kass 'polarizing'.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Oholibamah]

She keeps talking about this broliance which is obviously not there. Hell, two of the people she named last night are openly targeting each other. Her pitch is pretty much jump to her three to take out those men and play for fourth. How is that better then what they're doing now?

This is actually the hinge of the "four-maybe-five" comment. It IS a core of 4 that includes 5 people, because Joe and Stephen are vying for that same 4th spot. So Ciera wasn't wrong in naming 5 people, and didn't clarify because, as Kelley said, she may have to work with Stephen or Joe next week.

Furthermore, the 3 women are not a tight alliance. They grouped out of necessity for being collectively ignored. They are easily fractured later, and much easier to defeat for Immunity than Joe et. al.

Even conceding that Kimmi or Keith have a better deal than I'm aware of, who from the brolliance are they going to defeat at FTC? Stephen, Andrew, Joe, Jeremy and Tasha, despite being potentially overbearing, naturally command more "respect" than somebody like Ciera or Abi. Keith and Kimmi type players need to be playing with others in their wheelhouse.

Their gameplay is fine. It's meh. But it is shortsighted and not likely to clinch the big W.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Oholibamah

[peachmangosteen]

She keeps talking about this broliance which is obviously not there. 

 

It is though. Sure, some of them have talked about going against it, but Jermey has made sure every time to keep it together. Now down the line he'll most likely let it go so that he can take Stephen and Kimmi to F2 and get the easiest win ever, but for now and for the near future he still wants the brolliance to stay in tact.

 

Ciera's criticisms before were that she didn't really do anything and now that she is doing a lot she's still criticized. I just can't help but like and root for someone who is not going to lay down and die in this game, like so many others do.

Edited November 12, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Oscirus]

This is actually the hinge of the "four-maybe-five" comment. It IS a core of 4 that includes 5 people, because Joe and Stephen are vying for that same 4th spot. So Ciera wasn't wrong in naming 5 people, and didn't clarify because, as Kelley said, she may have to work with Stephen or Joe next week.

 

The comment was four people, then she names five.  Ignoring that bit of math, she was wrong for a couple of reasons: 1. The so called broliance doesn't have Stephen. 2. Three of the five people who she put out there  were people that she was trying to work with.  I get naming Jeremy and Andrew but the other three? Why needlessly burn bridges? 3.

 

Furthermore, the 3 women are not a tight alliance. They grouped out of necessity for being collectively ignored. They are easily fractured later, and much easier to defeat for Immunity than Joe et. al.

 

 

Says who? Ciera and Kelley were members of takeo five who just had a scene where Ciera promised not to vote for Kelley and Abi is clearly with them as well.  As for immunity they're not all physical and both Ciera and Abi have won immunities. Kelley's a physical threat so even that reason isn't a strong enough one to go with them.

 

It is though. Sure, some of them have talked about going against it, but Jermey has made sure every time to keep it together. Now down the line he'll most likely let it go so that he can take Stephen and Kimmi to F2 and get the easiest win ever, but for now and for the near future he still wants the brolliance to stay in tact.

 

Which is why even in confessionals he was targeting Joe this week?  Yea he saved Stephen last week but Stephen's not the broliance.  I commend her for trying, but Ciera's so far behind what's going on at this point, it's ridiculous.

[Zuleikha]

The comment was four people, then she names five.  Ignoring that bit of math, she was wrong for a couple of reasons: 1. The so called broliance doesn't have Stephen

Yes, it does. IMHO, it shouldn't, but it clearly does. The Brolliance is Savage/Tasha/Jeremy/Keith/Spencer/Joe/Kimmi/Wigles/Stephen. That's who voted out Kass and intended to vote out Kelley, and so far, we haven't seen any indication that anyone in it is thinking about going to the end with anyone not in the alliance.

 

But as Ciera so aptly noted, like any alliance, there are people at the top and people at the bottom. She also appears to have nailed the dynamics. The people at the top are Jeremy/Savage/Tasha and then it's either Joe/Stephen. The reason why there are 5 names for four slots is that Savage and Jeremy have a different preference. Savage sees Joe as their solid fourth (confirmed in Savage's exit interviews), but Jeremy may see Stephen as his solid fourth (Stephen certainly thinks Jeremy does, but I don't think we'll know for sure until/unless one of them is booted. Jeremy's confessional and actions were a "not yet," but IMHO, they didn't give a clear indication of when). Stephen/Joe targeting each other is logical because each wants to be in the safe position.

 

I don't think Ciera hurt herself by naming Stephen, Joe, and Tasha. The people she's really trying to target for a meaningful flip are Wigles, Keith, and Kimmi (maybe Spencer? he seems like a lost cause to me). If Stephen or Joe need Ciera/Abi/Kelley to take out the other one, they'll need them and it will be an alliance of convenience. 

[Oscirus]

The "broliance" is Jeremy, Tasha, Savage, Joe. That was what we were shown at the beginning of the game. The other five are voting with them but from what we were shown that's clearly the four. Well it would be the four if that was even a real alliance. Ignoring the semantics of the name and the existence of the broliance, Stephen is obviously not at the top of it , not even close.

 

The only thing that Ciera nailed was a cursory knowledge of what was going on. And yes, you're right if Ciera wants to be used until she gets dumped at the earliest possible convenience then fine, you're right that TC foolishness won't hurt her. But I thought she was playing to win, not to impress Jeff/the tv audience with her so called knowledge of tribal dynamics.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Oscirus

[KimberStormer]

The comment was four people, then she names five.  Ignoring that bit of math, she was wrong for a couple of reasons: 1. The so called broliance doesn't have Stephen.

 

Which is why even in confessionals he was targeting Joe this week?  Yea he saved Stephen last week but Stephen's not the broliance.  I commend her for trying, but Ciera's so far behind what's going on at this point, it's ridiculous.

 

Yes they do.  Obviously they do.  Stephen votes with Jeremy, Tasha, and Savage, particularly Jeremy.

 

The "broliance" is Jeremy, Tasha, Savage, Joe. That was what we were shown at the beginning of the game. The other five are voting with them but from what we were shown that's clearly the four. Well it would be the four if that was even a real alliance. Ignoring the semantics of the name and the existence of the broliance, Stephen is obviously not at the top of it , not even close.

 

The only thing that Ciera nailed was a cursory knowledge of what was going on. And yes, you're right if Ciera wants to be used until she gets dumped at the earliest possible convenience then fine, you're right that TC foolishness won't hurt her. But I thought she was playing to win, not to impress Jeff/the tv audience with her so called knowledge of tribal dynamics.

 

First Ciera's "behind" and now you're using a scene from the first episode as the proof?  Stephen has been a solid part of the alliance since the three-tribe split.  And it's weird to call her out for not knowing what's going on and then say knowledge of tribal dynamics doesn't matter.  The point, indeed, of "Joe or Stephen" is to get them to notice that it's one, not both of them, and in either case, playing for 4th isn't playing at all.  You think they're going to get offended and say "OMG Ciera you said my name in tribal, I guess I'll lose to spite you"?

Stephen is clearly closer to the top than Keith or Kelly or Spencer.  He sure seems to be closer to the top than Kimmi.  Both those statements go for Joe as well.  Which makes them 4th or 5th.  She is right!

[NutMeg]

Of course, that alliance of 5 is fluid because it will be either Stephen or Joe. And Ciera was very much on point there. As I see it, Jeremy will soon have to choose either "Shield" Joe or "Beatable Stephen". And what do you know, these two know it, because they are the only two we saw exploring other options/alliances/extra votes.

[Oscirus]

First Ciera's "behind" and now you're using a scene from the first episode as the proof?  Stephen has been a solid part of the alliance since the three-tribe split.

 

No I'm using the scene from the first episode as proof of how far behind Ciera is.  She calls out an alliance which is a front for Jeremy to use meat shields. I mean, yea they're voting together but only so far as he can use them to shield him.  He barely even listens to Joe or Andrew.

 

And it's weird to call her out for not knowing what's going on and then say knowledge of tribal dynamics doesn't matter

 

Maybe I confused with the statement but my point was that she uses the knowledge that she thinks she has in the wrong way. Even if it was correct, shouting it out at tribal is the wrong time and place to use it and I'd be willing to bet that it's a product of her desire to make good tv.

 

You think they're going to get offended and say "OMG Ciera you said my name in tribal, I guess I'll lose to spite you"?

 

No but they'll be more reluctant to go to her if they fear that she's going to go around  blabbing everything out.

 

As I see it, Jeremy will soon have to choose either "Shield" Joe or "Beatable Stephen".

 

 

Jeremy's obviously chosen Stephen, otherwise, Stephen would've been gone at the last tribal.

[NutMeg]

Jeremy's obviously chosen Stephen, otherwise, Stephen would've been gone at the last tribal.

 

 

not as sure if that as you are, as I see it he wants to keep both the strategic and the physical shields, but two are not compatible, and still he'll go for the combo as long as he thinks it worls for him. It might backfire, we'll see.  

[JudyObscure]

Who are these legions of fans who are constantly criticizing the young women for being too passive?  I don't see it.  Just this season we've seen Monica, Kimmi, Kass and Abi admonished for arguing, tattling and generally making unnecessary waves.  I've been one of those people and one who never liked Cierra and not because she was too passive.   In both her seasons she's been a braggart who seems to think  "loud and attention getting" equals "strong woman."  Why is her game any better, or more feminist somehow, than Kimmi trying to make quiet inroads into the core alliance? 

 

Cierra can rant about people on the bottom not making big moves all she wants but if they are biding their time as long as they aren't the target of the week, that may be the best play for now.  As we just saw that "core," is subject to change every day.  Savage is gone through idol play. Tasha could blow-up and lose her spot.   Joe will probably be out the first time he doesn't win immunity.  If she thinks she's playing to win by sitting next to Kelley she's very wrong.

[ProfCrash]

The Broalliance is Stephen, Jeremy, Joe, and Tasha. That was established on day one. Then there are the sub-alliances, which I think are mainly attached to Joe and Jeremy. Jeremy has an alliance with Kimmi, Stephen and Spencer. Joe has an alliance with Joe and a loose agreement with Kelley, Ciera and Abi. Keith is a floater that is going with the majority.

 

Andrew flat out said that his alliance was Joe, Jeremy and Tasha and that he really didn't have a sub alliance which is why he was fine with targeting Stephen who was not in the broalliance.

 

Ciera sees who the main alliance is. She is off on Stephen because she sees how close he is with Jeremy. Ciera is missing the sub alliances and how to play those.

[Jobiska]

Of course, that alliance of 5 is fluid because it will be either Stephen or Joe. And Ciera was very much on point there.

 

I saw her "Stephen or Joe" as an indication that until the scrambling of that day, she had assumed it was definitely Joe, but when they thought Stephen was going and suddenly word came down that no, he was definitely not going, she realized he was higher up than she thought, maybe in that fourth position in place of Joe.  

[Skeeter22]

Ciera's arguments at tribal council are exactly the things Hayden said to her in BvW to convince her to flip on Tyson. At the time, Hayden got almost universal praise for fighting for himself and the people who wouldn't budge on their alliance were lambasted for being sheep. It's interesting how people respond differently when Ciera makes the same play.

I don't blame Ciera for how she's talking to the majority at tribal council. We know "the girls" (as the rest of the tribe refer to them) are being mostly ostracized at camp. Stephen admitted in his People blog that the main alliance may have been unnecessarily arrogant and condescending towards the three women on the bottom. He also said there was a lot of talk about how they don't deserve to even be there. I don't understand why anyone in Ciera's position would be expected to just sit there and take it in the hopes that someone might deign to use them. I'd be rolling my eyes in frustration too.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Skeeter22

[peachmangosteen]

Ciera's arguments at tribal council are exactly the things Hayden said to her in BvW to convince her to flip on Tyson. At the time, Hayden got almost universal praise for fighting for himself and the people who wouldn't budge on their alliance were lambasted for being sheep. It's interesting how people respond differently when Ciera makes the same play.

 

Someone brought that up in the ep thread too and I didn't think about it until then. It's a very good point and it's very interesting to see the different responses.

 

I can get not liking Ciera's personality, even though I personally love it, but I honestly can not wrap my head around hating her moves or thinking she's a terrible player right now. I just really can't understand it. I feel like usually what the audience wants is for people to play the game and make moves and not be a sheep and yet that is exactly what Ciera is doing and she's still getting criticized for it. I just can't reconcile it. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[kikaha]

Ciera's arguments at tribal council are exactly the things Hayden said to her in BvW to convince her to flip on Tyson. At the time, Hayden got almost universal praise for fighting for himself and the people who wouldn't budge on their alliance were lambasted for being sheep. It's interesting how people respond differently when Ciera makes the same play.

 

I made a long post about this in the episode thread.  To quickly sum up, the difference IMO is that Hayden said that near the end of the game, when there was almost no wiggle room left.  Ciera tried to make the same argument when over half the season was left -- a season when alliances change almost by the day. 

 

i.e. the comparison seems to me apples and oranges.  If this were F6 she might have a point.  She made it at F13, greatly jumping the gun. 

[Skeeter22]

I'd say Ciera is right to start making this argument now. By the time Hayden convinced her to make a move, it was basically too late.

[ProfCrash]

I made a long post about this in the episode thread.  To quickly sum up, the difference IMO is that Hayden said that near the end of the game, when there was almost no wiggle room left.  Ciera tried to make the same argument when over half the season was left -- a season when alliances change almost by the day. 

 

i.e. the comparison seems to me apples and oranges.  If this were F6 she might have a point.  She made it at F13, greatly jumping the gun. 

She doesn't have a chance in hell of making the final 6 or 3 right now. What should she do? Joe is the only one talking to her at camp. We don't know what she is doing at camp because we are not seeing it. It is pretty clear who is calling the shots, she called out the top five people in the alliance which mean there are four people who are low on the totem pole. She is trying to get them to shift their view and see where they are so that they can do something about it.

 

Last season people bitched beacuse Joe and Jenn didn't do enough when they were at the bottom. They should have fought harder. They should have tried to get people on their side. They should have, it was along list. Then we saw Shirin talking to Dan trying to get him to flip and his response. Spit, clean out his shoe, count the number of bug bites he had and complete dismiss the idea. Sierra was open to flipping but she needed to have the numbers to make it happen. Dan would not flip. Mike was not going to flip. When Mike was ready to flip, it was too late, they didn't have the numbers. So Jenn and Joe chilled out and enjoyed the beach. And people complained.

 

Ciera is trying to stir something up and stay int eh game. She is trying to get through to Kimmi, Keith and Kelly Wiglesworth. I think she knows that Spencer and Joe will move against Jeremy and Stephen and Tasha if they have the numbers. Kimmi is so firmly in with Jeremy. Keith is a floater and cannot be trusted and Kelly Wiglesworth is not playing the game. So Ciera is screwed.

 

If she sat by and accepted her demise people would be pissed. When she makes the only argument she has people think she is playing badly.

 

She is not playing badly, she is playing from the bottom and grasping at straws. She was at the bottom in Bayon, Andrew dismisses her very presence on the show and cannot understand why she would volunteer to sit out a challenge. The tribe swap didn't let her form tighter bonds with Jeremy, Andrew or Tasha. Joe is reaching out to her but won't make a move without the numbers, for good reason. Andrew and Joe wanted to target Stephen but let Jeremy talk them out of that plan. There is nothing Ciera could do about that.

 

So go Ciera. Stir the pot. Play the game you were given and do your best.

 

She is screwed but she is trying.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think people sometimes confuse criticizing gameplay with flat-out not liking somebody.  It's really hard to argue to someone that they should like somebody that they just plain don't.  Is what Ciera's doing good gameplay, that's a hard question.  We won't know until she wins or loses.  But I do not like her.  Also, it's a preference.  I'd rather play like Jeremy instead of Ciera.  Unfortunately somebody's going to point out that this is sexist probably.  But that's what I'd aspire to if I was on the show.  Somebody who can quietly move along and not be super annoying on camera.  Kelley is in the same position as Ciera, and obviously acting a lot differently than her.  Ciera is the ultimate passive aggressor, the eye-rolling is a perfect example.

 

I really pride myself on being a feminist.  It sucks that it's extremely hard for me to dislike certain women without people pointing out how sexist that is.  It's absolutely true that I don't universally love all women on the planet.  But I also do very strongly believe in equal rights for all.  I wish we could all like or dislike somebody without somebody trying to 'dismantle that argument' by saying, "Nah, your feelings on a person are invalid because of sexism.  But now, listen to my extremely valid feelings on the exact same cast of characters."  When can we get rid of that ad hominem attack?  

 

The name of the Broalliance is so stupid.  Isn't that minimizing Tasha and Kimmie's role?  They are just as much women as Ciera, Kass, Abi, and Kelley.  There's the big alliance versus the small one.  Just numbers, not talking about body types.   I will argue that Jeremy didn't pick his alliance based on gender.  Kimmie looks to be 2nd in his alliance.  Joe is HIS LAST in that alliance, and Joe is a guy.  And one can say, oh, Kimmie is just a useless shield to Jeremy.  But Jeremy probably values Kimmie's loyalty and ability to pipe down during Tribal Council.  I know that I would, her controversial brand of veganism notwithstanding.

 

I feel like usually what the audience wants is for people to play the game

 

The Audience is not some monolith with just one opinion though.  It's millions of people who all have varying opinions on players - based on so many factors - personality, characteristics, position in the game, shared demographics, etc.  I don't think it's the same group of people saying "PLAY HARDER, JENN!" that is also saying "STOP PLAYING, CIERA!"   Also I don't know if anyone would actually make the argument that Ciera should lay down and die.   But not everyone will agree on how she's acting or playing.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Skeeter22]

Jeremy did pick his alliance on gender. He said making an alliance with mostly women was his mistake in San Juan del Sur. It made him the obvious target at the merge because, like it or not, people view the game through a sexist lens and automatically assume men are the power players. His strategy was to work with the other alpha males.

Ciera isn't my favorite player by a long shot. I always thought the "vote out you own mom" thing was unnecessary and overrated. I also think it's hard to ignore that her youth and gender may play a role in people dismissing her attempted moves as just wining because she's on the bottom.

[Ms Blue Jay]

You mean, Jeremy wants to use other Alpha Males that look like him as shields, so that he goes farther in the game?  Sure, I will agree with that.  He's said as much about Joe.  There are no other Alpha males out there though.  I'm going to argue that Spencer and Stephen are so-called stereotypical Betas.  He didn't make an alliance of a whole bunch of Alpha Males.  Stephen and Kimmie are his number 1 and 2 and Joe is his designated shield.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Personalities and actions in this game don't have to be static though.  People don't flock to Jeremy just because he's a big man.  He had to act a certain way to get it done.  He's already improved on San Juan Del Sur play, right?  He found the idol, didn't he?  He's acting different this round.  And it's paying off.   The entire show is trying to form a narrative about Spencer, Acting Different Boy this time around.  Kass and Ciera could try to switch things up to improve their game.  Ciera, maybe she is, time will tell.  Kass imploded, could not learn anything, or play better and she went from 3rd place to being first jury member, which is a huge depreciation.   A lot of women have won this game.  A lot.  Small women can obviously win this game.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[kikaha]

She doesn't have a chance in hell of making the final 6 or 3 right now.

 

I've seen no spoilers, but just looking at the game, I don't agree.  Bayon has lots of fractures in it.  Joe, e.g., knows Stephen is coming after him.  He also is real close with Wentworth.  Say Joe aligns with her threesome.  If he can bring several votes with him, like he did during the Kass boot, Ciera could get the numbers overnight.  She could be part of a 6 or 7 person alliance that, if it held firm, could mow through the others.  Especially with Joe anchoring the challenges, much like Ozzie did in Cook Islands.  Finding an idol could help them enormously. 

 

Ciera coasted the entire first part of the game: she had near-total freedom to 'play the game.'  That would have meant setting up relationships and alliances that would stick with her.  Seems clear to me she did not do that: when push came to shove, almost everyone turned against her.  Maybe she should turn her critiques inward, for not doing what people like Jeremy and Savage did real well. 

 

I think everyone would rather play like Jeremy than Ciera but the odds of going out there and having people flock to do our bidding like Kimmi, Stephen, Tasha, Andrew and others are doing with Jeremy are pretty slim.  I'm not saying part of it isn't skill on Jeremy's part, I think it is.  But I think he's hugely helped by his tribe placement, tribe dynamics, Bayon's immunity winning history and his overall physicality (ok, buff maleness and attractiveness).  

 

Ciera could not have had better luck in the first part of the game.  Her tribes won virtually everything.  So even though she sat out every other challenge, she never had to go to tribal, until the last one before merge.  When she finally did go to tribal, she was completely shielded.  It's hard to imagine having and easier time, of basically the entire pre-merge game. 

 

She managed to move from that position of 100% safety - free to wheel and deal, plot and scheme - to being an outcast, hanging on for dear life.  She has only herself to blame for this.  Awful, terrible play IMO.

 

And yet the others are 'playing the game' so hard, she still has a chance.  They have created enough openings, that she could go a lot deeper.    

[Skeeter22]

Small women absolutely can win Survivor. Just look at Sandra. But there will always be players like Andrew who categorically cannot respect someone like Sandra. Jeremy doesn't enter the game with that disadvantage. Ciera can't play the alpha male game, she has to play her game. She's right to encourage the Kimmis, Stephens, and Keiths that they are better off playing her game than playing Jeremy's. Stephen is obsessed with not making the same mistake he made in Tocantins. He was never in a position to take out JT. He can take out Jeremy or Joe now, it's just a question if he has the will. The problem is that Stephen is every bit as attracted to alpha males as Savage is, he's just less obnoxious about it.

[ProfCrash]

Ciera got votes two shows ago and would have gotten votes this week if they had split the vote. Her name has been discussed as someone to vote out pretty openly. She is not in the large alliance of 8. Stephen and Joe are targeting each other but no one else in the larger alliance is discussing targeting each other. Ciera is stirring the pot big time. This makes her more of a target then Abi, who we have not been shown doing anything.

 

Ranking the order right now, I would say Kelley and then Ciera are next on the list. The only thing that will disrupt that would be Joe and Stephen targeting each other.

 

I think Ciera is reading things right and knows that she cannot wait until she is at the final 6 because she is not likely to make it to the final 6.

 

Ciera is an agressive player. I don't have a problem with her. I don't like her body language and I think that she is doing a poor job of trying to get people to move. But I think that is more because of how solidly Jeremy has convinced Keith, Kimmi, and Stephen that they are in with him. Spencer is tight with Joe. Kelly Wigglesworth is floating along, no one is worried about her. Tasha is probably tight with Jeremy, I know she was tight with Andrew and was in the original four Alphas alliance.

 

I don't think that there has been an oppertunity for Ciera or Kelley to approach and convince Kimmi, Keith, and Kelly that they need to move.Kimmi and Keith because they believe that they are tight with Jeremy. Kelly is not playing the strategic game so approaching her is useless. Joe and Spencer are not moving unless they have numbers.

 

Great play by Jeremy that is hard to counter.