Past Plots Discussion: Whatever Happened To...

[methodwriter85]

6 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Also Marlena told Belle she could not love Brady as he was not her child. Belle said that shouldn't matter.

Really funny because by 2002-2003 when Kyle Lowder became the focus of the youth scene it suddenly became "Marlena always loved Brady as a son- he just rejected her when he found out the truth." And then Angel Isabella convinces Brady to start calling Marlena "Mom." 

Of course, the show didn't really try redeeming Brady until the summer of 2001 when the Broe storyline really got going.

[CanaryFan98]

I remember disliking Brady back then (which is why it surprised me when EM played him I started liking the character) however his disdain for Marlena was one of the few things I liked about Brady back then and his love for his little sister(which still remains). I just was annoyed Phillip was thrown under the bus at the time. 

[methodwriter85]

On 9/28/2022 at 10:53 PM, RedElf said:

This is hilarious.  Kristen holding Brady in 1994.

It's funny when you think that the current Kristen and the current Brady are only 3 years apart in age in real life.

 

[spookyseason]

On 9/15/2023 at 6:04 PM, brisbydog said:

I watched a lot of summer 2000 the past few days. Wow Marlena was AWFUL. She truly believed Brady tried to murder Belle (by trapping her on a train track) and she and Roman yammered on how he was a 'bad kid' and they were so lucky Sami and Eric were great (um.... same Sami who tried to sell Belle on the black market right? Not sure if she was outed for lying about Austin being her baby daddy yet). Also Marlena told Belle she could not love Brady as he was not her child. Belle said that shouldn't matter. She had more empathy than the supposed sainted shrink

Ugh. Why do people love her character?

I had a distant memory of John himself took the blame for Brady's troubled upbrining and cited his neglectful parenting and overinvolvement in other things to be the root causes. He also complained that he had trouble reaching out to Brady due to generation gap.  But he was never the "too busy" type who prioritized his spouse over his kids or had difficulties connecting with them. Not sure if this was the writers' funny ways of unveiling the selfishness of Jarlena love or demonstrating the effects of maternal absence on children development.

It does make me wonder how Brady's life would turn out had Isabella remaind alive. Then again, I shurdder to think the fallouts of infidelity down the road if Jarlena remained to be the ultimate plan. The wounds could stay there for a long time and he simply ended up like Sami. Possibly the worst outcome of all, Isabella became another Kristen and used her own son as a weapon to plot against his father and Marlena.

2 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

It's funny when you think that the current Kristen and the current Brady are only 3 years apart in age in real life.

 

and ED and KL's characters were romantically linked in Y&R. You know what they say, stepmother by Salem and lover by Genoa City lol. So both Brady, in a way had been together with both Kristen. 

Edited September 17, 2023 by spookyseason

[brisbydog]

Been watching a lot of John Aniston the past few days, and my goodness there is a GOLD MINE of footage to support Xander being the long lost son, from the recently shown moment where Victor gave Xander the coin on his wedding day 'that your father would have wanted you to have', to saying "Welcome home son" when he made him CEO, to Xander being very angry about Phillip and Brady tanking Titan because it is in 'his blood'. Many more, but I especially got into the Victor/Xander vibe when they were lying about Mickey to protect Maggie. That is definitely the closest they ever were. 

[DisneyBoy]

Here's hoping they use some flashbacks once the new drops.

 

I usually hate the retcons on this show because they never make a lick of sense and just ruin story potential...but this may be one instance where they're clearly doing a retcon and yet everything leading up to it supports it.

I don't exactly like the idea of Xander being a brother to Philip and Bo, because neither of those two characters have been treated well on the series of late so nothing interesting will come it, but I do like the idea of Xander - the grey bad guy, kinda like Victor - becoming the new head of the family.

[peachmangosteen]

Can someone give me a brief little summary of this Edmund guy, please?

[WendyCR72]

57 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Can someone give me a brief little summary of this Edmund guy, please?

In short, he fell for Susan [yeah, right] and raised EJ with her. Apparently, he fed EJ Miracle Grow by the crap ton, since he went from baby to 30.

And...that about covers it.

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

In short, he fell for Susan [yeah, right] and raised EJ with her. Apparently, he fed EJ Miracle Grow by the crap ton, since he went from baby to 30.

And...that about covers it.

I remember finding him really hot in that stuffy Giles librarian kind of way. I actually really liked how Susan got her happily ever after with Edmund and felt annoyed at the show for wrecking it when 27-year old EJ showed up. 

[CanaryFan98]

3 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Here's hoping they use some flashbacks once the new drops.

 

I usually hate the retcons on this show because they never make a lick of sense and just ruin story potential...but this may be one instance where they're clearly doing a retcon and yet everything leading up to it supports it.

I don't exactly like the idea of Xander being a brother to Philip and Bo, because neither of those two characters have been treated well on the series of late so nothing interesting will come it, but I do like the idea of Xander - the grey bad guy, kinda like Victor - becoming the new head of the family.

I think Xander lacks the gravitas to be like Victor. Sure he has the thug part down but Victor could also move in respectable circles and I don't see that with Xander.

 

I think Deimos could've done it if he was a better character, I think they had the right actor in Vincent Irizarry to make it possible.

[DisneyBoy]

Agreed, but Deimos was awful and needs to stay dead. No more zombies please. That character didn't work. There are other actors.

Xander trying to run Titan and gradually becoming more suave is a worthwhile plotline.

Edmund was Susan's white knight, when she got custody of baby EJ back from mean, mean, mean Kristen in the 90s, after Kristen tried to trick her into signing her parental rights away.

Jarlena, knowing she needed to hide, flew Susan and EJ to a small village in England. There, she met Edmund and his Mom Violet Crumb, who ran a pub. Edmund was just adorkable - Giles from Buffy, crossed with Steve Urkel and a golden retriever - and was instantly head over wheels in love and determined to protect to Susan and "widdle Elwis" from The Evil Kristen.

They filmed an amazing montage of them on dates in hideous outfits, running through fields in slow motion and falling out of paddleboats into ponds. Delightfully stupid.

Anyway, when deranged Kristen captured Sister Mary Moira and threatened to kill her if Susan didn't bring EJ back, Edmund found out, secretly flew to Salem and saw Kristen at the Blake House where he confronted her, demanding to know where Susan and the baby were. She fell into the pool and he kept her head under the water for a few seconds to scare her, but she quickly drowned. He fled the scene and Jarlena happened to find the body floating in the pool.

(announcer voice: "THE DYING POOL! DAYS OF OUR LIVES!")

Susan turned up with the baby at the airport and was brought in for questioning...but Edmund swooped in, told her to say nothing and blame shifted to Laura, still struggling with her mental health after the laser brain surgery and Kristen having her drugged and locked up in a mental hospital (gee, ya think?) plus grief over Jennifer having "died" (I think?). Laura had gone by the house that same night with a gun, which she fired at Kristen from a distance, so she was a likely suspect, but then, so was Celeste, who'd been wandering the streets afflicted by "Jungle Madness".  Stefano nearly stroked out at Kristen's funeral and John believed Kristen killed herself after leaving him a devastating voicemail about how alone she felt. Laura wore red to the services and laughed. Juicy stuff. Good times.

Thing was, Susan was actually Kristen in disguise, trying desperately to get the hell out of town her with precious stolen baby, if not for Edmund's constant loving interruptions. She believed Susan somehow fell and drowned herself at the Blake House and she didn't want to get found out, since she'd surely be sent to prison. Edmund however brought Violet over and arranged a secret surprise wedding, so Kristen had to fake her way through vows to the moron while acting like a lovesick Susan. By this point, having heard Stefano weeping over his treatment of her, she revealed herself to him and they put their differences aside to team up and get her out of town with the baby. Prior to this, Stefano had cruelly blamed her for interfering with his plans and trying to steal EJ from Susan, who he was content to leave on diaper duty for a while.

Kristen as Susan tried to dump Edmund on their honeymoon jet before takeoff, when he finally admitted he'd been the one to accidentally kill "Kristen" in the pool. "Susan" however claimed such a dangerous man couldn't be around her son, and Edmund, heartbroken, apolgized and agreed to leave them alone.

....that's when the REAL Susan showed up. She'd been successfully smuggled away that night by the men Kristen had invited to the Blake House after showing them a picture of herself. Having ordered Susan to show up looking exactly like her or risk SMM's life, they thought they were getting a sexy Kristen-type as a sex slave, instead of bucktoothed Susan. Through a series of dorky events, Susan escaped her captors by swimming a moat, riding a donkey and catching a plane to Salem.

Edmund was stuck in the classic "who is who?" situation when he saw them together until Susan exposed Kristen, took back EJ and forced her at gunpoint to get on a plane with the captor that had pursued Susan. But if neither Kristen nor Susan had died, who was in the pool...?

Well that would be Penelope Kent, Susan's other sibling, a posh failed actress, who showed up at Susan's door right before her trip to Salem to save SMM. Susan never knew about her and Penelope never knew about Susan either, until a local paper printed a photo of her attending Vivian's wedding to Jonesey (don't ask).

She'd been adopted by a wealthy UK family and raised separately from the Banks Triplets (Susan, SMM and Thomas). Susan was delighted but freaked out about her mission to confront Kristen. Penelope, having only weeks left to live and a habit of popping pills and drinking like a fish, insisted on helping her long-lost sister defeat The Evil Kristen, even though flying over the ocean scared her because (wait for it) she couldn't swim.

Wearing the same outfits, the sisters separately confronted Kristen - who was also styled the same - at the Blake House. Kristen drugged Susan and slipped away, leaving her to be kidnapped. Both missed seeing surprise guest Edmund, who assumed Penelope was actually Kristen.

Susan forgave Edmund for killing her dying sister, allowed Kristen to be dragged back to sex slave island in her stead, and sent Stefano a message as Kristen, pretending she'd gone off on a cruise with the baby and not to contact her. She and Edmund and EJ had a happy ending.

When Susan popped back for a visit to warn EJ he might die (2014?), she was still in England with Edmund. When Will was found alive in her home, she was shaked up with Roger the Elvis impersonator (2017).

We don't yet know why or when she left Edmund.

Edited September 30, 2023 by DisneyBoy

[methodwriter85]

I loved that storyline. So of course the show is determined to piss all over that, like what they did to Craig and Nancy, a storyline I also really loved. 

[DisneyBoy]

God, I hope not. (Do you know something?)

I liked Roger quite a bit, but Edmund was something special.

[JBC344]

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Can someone give me a brief little summary of this Edmund guy, please?

Edmund was Susan's boyfriend and eventually husband during the end of the Susan/Kristen/Baby EJ storyline.  

Susan, Edmund and Baby EJ left Salem together as a family. Edmund helped raise EJ. EJ gets his "English man persona" from Edmund. 

Edmund is essentially an all around "great guy". He was Susan's knight in shining armor during the craziness. 

When EJ was killed, Susan had a breakdown. She left Edmund, came to Salem to seek revenge. That is when she took Will.

I assume we are to believe that Edmund is seeking revenge for Susan leaving him years ago. 

 

[DisneyBoy]

Or trying to stop her from going back, where people seemingly hurt her. 

I hope.

[brisbydog]

4 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Or trying to stop her from going back, where people seemingly hurt her. 

I hope.

I think so. Susan didn't look too worried

7 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

God, I hope not. (Do you know something?)

I liked Roger quite a bit, but Edmund was something special.

He basically raised EJ. I hope that's acknowledged and they get some time together 

[methodwriter85]

4 hours ago, brisbydog said:

He basically raised EJ. I hope that's acknowledged and they get some time together 

I never got EJ's monologue when he crashed Sami and Lucas's 2007 New Orleans honeymoon about being raised in the Dimera mansion there. Uh, hello? Look at how you talk!

Edited September 29, 2023 by methodwriter85

[brisbydog]

16 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Agreed, but Deimos was awful and needs to stay dead. No more zombies please. That character didn't work. There are other actors.

Xander trying to run Titan and gradually becoming more suave is a worthwhile plotline.

Edmund was Susan's white knight, when she got custody of baby EJ back from mean, mean, mean Kristen in the 90s, after Kristen tried to trick her into signing her parental rights away.

Jarlena, knowing she needed to hide, flew Susan and EJ to a small village in England. There, she met Edmund and his Mom Violet Crumb, who ran a pub. Edmund was just adorkable - Giles from Buffy, crossed with Steve Urkel and a golden retriever - and was instantly head over wheels in love and determined to protect to Susan and "widdle Elwis" from The Evil Kristen.

They filmed an amazing montage of them on dates in hideous outfits, running through fields in slow motion and falling out of paddleboats into ponds. Delightfully stupid.

Anyway, when deranged Kristen captured Sister Mary Moira and threatened to kill her if Susan didn't bring EJ back, Edmund found out, secretly flew to Salem and saw Kristen at the Blake House where he confronted her, demanding to know where Susan and the baby were. She fell into the pool and he kept her head under the water for a few seconds to scare her, but she quickly drowned. He fled the scene and Jarlena happened to find the body floating in the pool.

(announcer voice: "THE DYING POOL! DAYS OF OUR LIVES!")

Susan turned up with the baby at the airport and was brought in for questioning...but Edmund swooped in, told her to say nothing and blame shifted to Laura, still struggling with her mental health after the laser brain surgery and Kristen having her drugged and locked up in a mental hospital (gee, ya think?) plus grief over Jennifer having "died" (I think?). Laura had gone by the house that same night with a gun, which she fired at Kristen from a distance, so she was a likely suspect, but then, so was Celeste, who'd been wandering the streets afflicted by "Jungle Madness".  Stefano nearly stroked out at Kristen's funeral and John believed Kristen killed herself after leaving him a devastating voicemail about how alone she felt. Laura wore red to the services and laughed. Juicy stuff. Good times.

Thing was, Susan was actually Kristen in disguise, trying desperately to get the hell out of town her with precious stolen baby, if not for Edmund's constant loving interruptions. She believed Susan somehow fell and drowned herself at the Blake House and she didn't want to get found out, since she'd surely be sent to prison. Edmund however brought Violet over and arranged a secret surprise wedding, so Kristen had to fake her way through vows to the moron while acting like a lovesick Susan. By this point, having heard Stefano weeping over his treatment of her, she revealed herself to him and they put their differences aside to team up and get her out of town with the baby. Prior to this, Stefano had cruelly blamed her for interfering with his plans and trying to steal EJ from Susan, who he was content to leave on diaper duty for a while.

Kristen as Susan tried to dump Edmund on their honeymoon jet before takeoff, when he finally admitted he'd been the one to accidentally kill "Kristen" in the pool. "Susan" however claimed such a dangerous man couldn't be around her son, and Edmund, heartbroken, apolgized and agreed to leave them alone.

....that's when the REAL Susan showed up. She'd been successfully smuggled away that night by the men Kristen had invited to the Blake House after showing them a picture of herself. Having ordered Susan to show up looking exactly like her or risk SMM's life, they thought they were getting a sexy Kristen-type as a sex slave, instead of bucktoothed Susan. Through a series of dorky events, Susan escaped her captors by swimming a moat, riding a donkey and catching a plane to Salem.

 

I love you! I had forgotten about this and just watched it again. I hope they don't ruin Edmund this go around. He and Susan were a delight

[CanaryFan98]

 

[DisneyBoy]

Please tell me I'm not the only one who still mourns this blended family. ^

 

Bo, love you bud, but you wrecked everything new and beautiful that was starting up.

[CanaryFan98]

I did like Chase and Ciara when they were little. I think they should have kept her with Aiden over Rafe if Bo was out of the picture entirely.

 

Hope/Ciara never recovered 

Edited September 30, 2023 by CanaryFan98

[WendyCR72]

Frankly, I don't care much about Aiden. I mean, the show could have put him with someone else upon Bo's return, but I also don't think Daniel Cosgrove was all that. Still, the show seemed to have one story for him and didn't try anything else.

And I have already covered how I think Aiden benefited by trashing Bo to promote Aiden/Hope. (Which never happened to Hope during Bo post Hope; Hope's "memory" was respected.) The writing for Hope post Bo just was never there as it was for Bo post Hope.

So, for me, it's like, fine if Aiden stayed and moved on from Hope. Also fine that he's gone.

[CanaryFan98]

I would have been fine with Aiden moving on from Hope. I think he could have been paired with Kate, Nicole etc also. He made Salem seemed less incestuous and had the right amount of grey character at the time. The problem is as a non Bo love interest he’s never seen or heard from again after Hope. Only Harris and Rafe are lucky because they are pets. 

[WendyCR72]

22 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

The problem is as a non Bo love interest he’s never seen or heard from again after Hope.

Well, making Aiden a killer sort of makes sense as far as him not being seen or heard from again!

[DisneyBoy]

His story was so awful, both times, that bringing him back would please no one.

The setup was good though. Oh well.

[CanaryFan98]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, making Aiden a killer sort of makes sense as far as him not being seen or heard from again!

That's my point they turn into that role after being involved with Hope. Bo never had real competition when it came to Hope however Hope had to put up with Megan, Carly, and Billie.  I just find it short sighted because I rather have seen Aiden or Patrick a regular compared to some of the other newbies they brought on through the years.

 

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

That's my point they turn into that role after being involved with Hope. Bo never had real competition when it came to Hope however Hope had to put up with Megan, Carly, and Billie.  I just find it short sighted because I rather have seen Aiden or Patrick a regular compared to some of the other newbies they brought on through the years.

 

But Hope really didn't have to put up with Carly, at least. Carly was out of the picture when Hope returned.

Of course, there was 2.0, but that was a complete mess and also damaged Bo, so I like to forget that.

As for Billie, once Gina was found to be Hope, she also left pretty fast. The only reason we got Villain Billie with Krista Allen and Swamp Baby was because Reilly had it in for Bo/Hope.

And even that Billie acknowledged Hope would always be #1, so...

[CanaryFan98]

26 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

But Hope really didn't have to put up with Carly, at least. Carly was out of the picture when Hope returned.

Of course, there was 2.0, but that was a complete mess and also damaged Bo, so I like to forget that.

As for Billie, once Gina was found to be Hope, she also left pretty fast. The only reason we got Villain Billie with Krista Allen and Swamp Baby was because Reilly had it in for Bo/Hope.

And even that Billie acknowledged Hope would always be #1, so...

There was also Julie Pinson's Billie which is how we got Chelsea in the first place. I just find it really one sided at times when it comes to Bo/Hope in that regard he could still be friends with Billie/Carly. Meanwhile Hope has no past/history beyond Bo. 

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

There was also Julie Pinson's Billie which is how we got Chelsea in the first place. I just find it really one sided at times when it comes to Bo/Hope in that regard he could still be friends with Billie/Carly. Meanwhile Hope has no past/history beyond Bo. 

To be fair, though, it's not just them. See Steve/Kayla. Shane/Kim are different since it was Kim that was married to Phillip for a time before she and Shane found their way back to each other.

Roman had Anna [and a retcon deal with Kate via Stefano, hence Cassie/Rex] and Marlena had Don and John.

[methodwriter85]

On 9/30/2023 at 4:26 PM, CanaryFan98 said:

I did like Chase and Ciara when they were little. I think they should have kept her with Aiden over Rafe if Bo was out of the picture entirely

It was such a waste. Suddenly this guy becomes a rapist? It was so abrupt and with little to no buildup and it completely ruined the character of Ciara.

It also meant that a newbie was thrust into a rape storyline right at the beginning before she had a chance to get her feet wet and it just too much for her to handle. When they got to Allie a few years later, I just thought to myself, "Wow, they really didn't learn a damned thing from Ciara." 

The show was really trying hard to recapture that Last Chance Blast glory days after the failure of the JJ/Biege/Theresa/Eve/Dr. Dan teen scene, and it just didn't work out.

[spookyseason]

Thank goodness Melissa from Daytime Royalty has uploaded 1984-86 episodes in full on G-Drive so viewers could rejoice in the memories of glorious days or take the opportunity to see this awesome blast from the past.

Personally speaking, I find the character of Robin to be suprisingly refreshing. A female doctor who is dedicated and career-driven, not preoccupied with men and cosmetics 24/7. Females or no females, Soaps honestly need more characters like her today. 

Kristen Alfonso's able to emote convincingly back in these classic episodes from the 80s. Josh Taylor was awesome as Chris, what a wonderful suprise!

Did Deidre Hall lose enthusiasm in acting before her departure in 86? Marlena seemed to be emotionally drained and rather aloof which made John stiff.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by spookyseason

[CanaryFan98]

19 hours ago, spookyseason said:

Thank goodness Melissa from Daytime Royalty has uploaded 1984-86 episodes in full on G-Drive so viewers could rejoice in the memories of glorious days or take the opportunity to see this awesome blast from the past.

Personally speaking, I find the character of Robin to be suprisingly refreshing. A female doctor who is dedicated and career-driven, not preoccupied with men and cosmetics 24/7. Females or no females, Soaps honestly need more characters like her today. 

Kristen Alfonso's able to emote convincingly back in these classic episodes from the 80s. Josh Taylor was awesome as Chris, what a wonderful suprise!

Did Deidre Hall lose interest in acting before her departure in 86? Marlena seemed rather aloof which made John stiff. This is the first time I've seen Drake being ill at ease around a female scene partner. Sorry, I feel quite underwhelmed by the lukewarm John/Marlena.

 

 

How are you able to watch this? Robin was definitely one of those characters you just don't see soaps anymore because they aren't OTT and grounded in reality. 

[brisbydog]

I have been a busy girl going back and watching a lot of pertinent scenes between Xander and Victor to try to get my head around what we all figure is the inevitable paternity reveal. What can I say, I like to research (History major too, and some of this is ancient Days history).

So these are the scenes I think are the most interesting in retrospect

March 2015: Following Brady's reintroduction to Xander, where he says he forgot he existed and had barely thought about him for years, Victor says that he got a murder charge dropped to assault for Xander in Scotland and to steer clear of him. Brady asks for the details. Victor says he doesn't remember. Xander is initially so excited to see Victor, Daniel and Brady but they all treat him coldly.

June 2015: Following Xander's attempt to cook Ericole alive, Victor abducts him and holds a knife to his throat. He tells Xander that he doesn't know his place in the family. Xander bites back that despite everything he has done for Victor without complaint, he knows that Victor considers him beneath everybody else in the family, including Daniel. Victor confirms this and tells him that he hated Titus, Xander's father, and has no guilt about letting him die when he could have saved his life. Xander states that all he has ever wanted was Victor's love and approval

August 2016: Following the jail break, Marlena asks Victor to help her to an analysis of Xander's personality. Nicole sits in. She says she finds it hard to believe that Victor always disliked Xander, who had often told her he thought of Victor as a father figure to him. Victor states that Xander might have started thinking of him that way after Titus died, but he never encouraged it, and started to treat him poorly once he realized he was a loser and an opportunist. He says he should have washed his hands of him as soon as Titus died. Nicole tells him that Victor turned Xander into a monster with his cruelty.

May 2019: Xander tells Maggie that following Titus' death his mother became a hopeless drunk and he ended up parenting her. He says that he used to dream his uncle Victor would swoop in and save him from the awful life he was living. He also mentions that his mother cut him out of his life the first time he went to prison, this fits into the timeline of him going to jail in Scotland shortly after spending the summer with Brady and Daniel as a teen. Later he will tell Gwen his mother isn't dead, just dead to him.

November 2019 through April 2020 would be the closest we saw Victor and Xander on screen as they bonded through their shared secret about Mackenzie and need to protect Maggie from thinking she had killed her own granddaughter.

April 2020: Prior to Xander's first attempt to marry Sarah, Victor tells him he has proven to him that he is a true Kiriakis and he is very proud of him. He gives him the family coin and tells him that if his father were here, he would want him to have this on his wedding day. This scene is very important, so much so that they showed it in flashblack following Victor's on screen death.

July 2020: Sarah complains to Victor that Xander offered to find her another baby to replace Mickey. Victor is confused and says why are you mad, that is a lovely guesture. Sarah is appalled and says they are completely clueless on the same level. Victor tells her he has known Xander is entire life and he was always selfish and had a chip on his shoulder until he met her, and has changed into somebody who can care about other people. He compares his relationship with Maggie, where he still screws up and does bad things but Maggie forgives him, to Sarah's with Xander. He says Maggie would rather be with an imperfect man she loves than alone.

August 2020: After Xarah get back together, and Brady quits Titan, Victor offers Xander the job of CEO again. He tells him that he did a wonderful job the first time and he will always be his first choice to run his company. Paul Telfer did an interview this past June where he cites this scene as the most important one in the Victor/Xander timeline, as it was the one where Victor gave him full acceptance. Right before Phillip walks in, Victor calls Xander 'son'. I have a feeling we will see this scene again in a flashback soon.

February 2021: After Xander busts Phillip for using Titan to launder money, Victor refuses to accept Phillip's resignation and still wants them to be co CEOs. Xander is furious, saying that when he screwed up he got a knife to the throat and became a gardener, while Phillip gets a slap on the wrist. He points out he saved Titan and yet nothing has changed, Victor will always treat him as an also ran. He reminds Victor he only did the baby switch to protect Maggie. Victor tells him he is always family. Xander says that he had hoped to make his place at Titan but he has finally realized he has had enough and walks out. Victor says he won't chase him. Xander says it is is too late for that

November 2022: Victor mocks Xander for being unemployed and pushes his buttons until he agrees to help Ava abduct Susan. On Victor and Maggie's anniversary, Xander is the only one who shows up to the dinner. Maggie makes Victor apologize to him and congratulate him on being 'employed'. These are not significant but they are the final on screen scenes for them so noting them

August 2023: Maggie asks Xander to reconcile with Victor because he loves and misses him. Xander finds that hard to believe. Maggie says as he is getting older he is having regrets about how he has acted in the past, and it might be too late soon for them to fix their relationship. Xander agrees to talk to Victor but sadly, it is already too late. When he finds out about Victor's death, he tells Chloe that walking away from Victor and Titan was the smartest thing he ever did for himself, but there was a time he would have died for him. Flashbacks to the knife scene from 2015 and the wedding scene from 2020 are shown. He and Brady talk about how Victor pitted them against each other and that they all fell in line because they loved him so much

September 2023: At Victor's funeral, Xander speaks about how he understood Victor as they were very much alike, and he admired that he cared about family so much.

So what does this all mean? Obviously it is Days writing so everything can change on a dime, but I think that the flashbacks they used in August support that we will eventually see Xander revealed as Victor's son, and there is plenty there to show that Victor was punishing him throughout his life for BEING his son that he could not acknowledge, including apparently letting Titus die. In the end he did admit that of all the revolving Titan CEOs, Xander was the best of the lot. I can also very much see him splitting his empire between Maggie, who he loved the most, and Xander, who he knew he had let down the most.

Naturally there is no timeline for Victor/Alex as they only had about 5 months of being on the show at the same time, and tellingly, no flashbacks for Alex or even a speaking role at the funeral were included

Thoughts?

Edited October 21, 2023 by brisbydog

[boes]

4 hours ago, brisbydog said:

I have been a busy girl going back and watching a lot of pertinent scenes between Xander and Victor to try to get my head around what we all figure is the inevitable paternity reveal. What can I say, I like to research (History major too, and some of this is ancient Days history).

So these are the scenes I think are the most interesting in retrospect

March 2015: Following Brady's reintroduction to Xander, where he says he forgot he existed and had barely thought about him for years, Victor says that he got a murder charge dropped to assault for Xander in Scotland and to steer clear of him. Brady asks for the details. Victor says he doesn't remember. Xander is initially so excited to see Victor, Daniel and Brady but they all treat him coldly.

June 2015: Following Xander's attempt to cook Ericole alive, Victor abducts him and holds a knife to his throat. He tells Xander that he doesn't know his place in the family. Xander bites back that despite everything he has done for Victor without complaint, he knows that Victor considers him beneath everybody else in the family, including Daniel. Victor confirms this and tells him that he hated Titus, Xander's father, and has no guilt about letting him die when he could have saved his life. Xander states that all he has ever wanted was Victor's love and approval

August 2016: Following the jail break, Marlena asks Victor to help her to an analysis of Xander's personality. Nicole sits in. She says she finds it hard to believe that Victor always disliked Xander, who had often told her he thought of Victor as a father figure to him. Victor states that Xander might have started thinking of him that way after Titus died, but he never encouraged it, and started to treat him poorly once he realized he was a loser and an opportunist. He says he should have washed his hands of him as soon as Titus died. Nicole tells him that Victor turned Xander into a monster with his cruelty.

May 2019: Xander tells Maggie that following Titus' death his mother became a hopeless drunk and he ended up parenting her. He says that he used to dream his uncle Victor would swoop in and save him from the awful life he was living. He also mentions that his mother cut him out of his life the first time he went to prison, this fits into the timeline of him going to jail in Scotland shortly after spending the summer with Brady and Daniel as a teen. Later he will tell Gwen his mother isn't dead, just dead to him.

November 2019 through April 2020 would be the closest we saw Victor and Xander on screen as they bonded through their shared secret about Mackenzie and need to protect Maggie from thinking she had killed her own granddaughter.

April 2020: Prior to Xander's first attempt to marry Sarah, Victor tells him he has proven to him that he is a true Kiriakis and he is very proud of him. He gives him the family coin and tells him that if his father were here, he would want him to have this on his wedding day. This scene is very important, so much so that they showed it in flashblack following Victor's on screen death.

July 2020: Sarah complains to Victor that Xander offered to find her another baby to replace Mickey. Victor is confused and says why are you mad, that is a lovely guesture. Sarah is appalled and says they are completely clueless on the same level. Victor tells her he has known Xander is entire life and he was always selfish and had a chip on his shoulder until he met her, and has changed into somebody who can care about other people. He compares his relationship with Maggie, where he still screws up and does bad things but Maggie forgives him, to Sarah's with Xander. He says Maggie would rather be with an imperfect man she loves than alone.

August 2020: After Xarah get back together, and Brady quits Titan, Victor offers Xander the job of CEO again. He tells him that he did a wonderful job the first time and he will always be his first choice to run his company. Paul Telfer did an interview this past June where he cites this scene as the most important one in the Victor/Xander timeline, as it was the one where Victor gave him full acceptance. Right before Phillip walks in, Victor calls Xander 'son'. I have a feeling we will see this scene again in a flashback soon.

February 2021: After Xander busts Phillip for using Titan to launder money, Victor refuses to accept Phillip's resignation and still wants them to be co CEOs. Xander is furious, saying that when he screwed up he got a knife to the throat and became a gardener, while Phillip gets a slap on the wrist. He points out he saved Titan and yet nothing has changed, Victor will always treat him as an also ran. He reminds Victor he only did the baby switch to protect Maggie. Victor tells him he is always family. Xander says that he had hoped to make his place at Titan but he has finally realized he has had enough and walks out. Victor says he won't chase him. Xander says it is is too late for that

November 2022: Victor mocks Xander for being unemployed and pushes his buttons until he agrees to help Ava abduct Susan. On Victor and Maggie's anniversary, Xander is the only one who shows up to the dinner. Maggie makes Victor apologize to him and congratulate him on being 'employed'. These are not significant but they are the final on screen scenes for them so noting them

August 2023: Maggie asks Xander to reconcile with Victor because he loves and misses him. Xander finds that hard to believe. Maggie says as he is getting older he is having regrets about how he has acted in the past, and it might be too late soon for them to fix their relationship. Xander agrees to talk to Victor but sadly, it is already too late. When he finds out about Victor's death, he tells Chloe that walking away from Victor and Titan was the smartest thing he ever did for himself, but there was a time he would have died for him. Flashbacks to the knife scene from 2015 and the wedding scene from 2020 are shown. He and Brady talk about how Victor pitted them against each other and that they all fell in line because they loved him so much

September 2023: At Victor's funeral, Xander speaks about how he understood Victor as they were very much alike, and he admired that he cared about family so much.

So what does this all mean? Obviously it is Days writing so everything can change on a dime, but I think that the flashbacks they used in August support that we will eventually see Xander revealed as Victor's son, and there is plenty there to show that Victor was punishing him throughout his life for BEING his son that he could not acknowledge, including apparently letting Titus die. In the end he did admit that of all the revolving Titan CEOs, Xander was the best of the lot. I can also very much see him splitting his empire between Maggie, who he loved the most, and Xander, who he knew he had let down the most.

Naturally there is no timeline for Victor/Alex as they only had about 5 months of being on the show at the same time, and tellingly, no flashbacks for Alex or even a speaking role at the funeral were included

Thoughts?

My initial thoughts are to thank you so much for doing this research and then being so kind as to post it here for us to read.  Thank you! 

It's apparent to me that Xander is Victor's son.   While he's far from perfect, to say the least, he's also immensely charming and makes it easy for me to believe that there's a whole lotta good in the man.

[brisbydog]

1 hour ago, boes said:

My initial thoughts are to thank you so much for doing this research and then being so kind as to post it here for us to read.  Thank you! 

It's apparent to me that Xander is Victor's son.   While he's far from perfect, to say the least, he's also immensely charming and makes it easy for me to believe that there's a whole lotta good in the man.

I have so enjoyed the rewatch. 2019 has been a joy, the whole Nicole is Kristen plot is hysterical

Xander is just plain old likable. Alex... not so much

[brisbydog]

Been watching 1990 episodes all week.  Today I encountered Justin sounding just like Xander, telling Isabella that no matter what he's done for Victor it will never be enough, and he's walking away from him (mind you he was naming one of the twins after him 2 episodes later and hugging him). Thought it was interesting that he had the same struggles as the rest of the clan. He was also mourning Alex at this juncture as Angelica had faked his death. I watched Victor finding out he's Isabella's dad and the aftermath. Very different vibe. He's nicer to his girls.

Other thoughts:
-the writing for Jack was sublime and Matt was so good. His scenes with Stephen Nichols are amazing 
-Staci Greason as Isabella was luminous. Such a shame she quit acting. I'll always prefer her to Marlena 
-I had forgotten Julie tanked Nick Corelli's life and that's why he went bad overnight. Thanks Julie.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, brisbydog said:

I had forgotten Julie tanked Nick Corelli's life and that's why he went bad overnight. Thanks Julie.

Well, Nick was a pimp. So if it wasn't Julie, I think the lure of the dark side would have gotten to Nick some other way. Shrug.

[brisbydog]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, Nick was a pimp. So if it wasn't Julie, I think the lure of the dark side would have gotten to Nick some other way. Shrug.

He hadn't been a pimp for years and had been a model citizen since he returned from his brush with death. Julie was mad that he kept hold of Wings which she wanted back, so she broke his heart by revealing that his brother was a criminal. It was just a petty act.

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, brisbydog said:

He hadn't been a pimp for years and had been a model citizen since he returned from his brush with death. Julie was mad that he kept hold of Wings which she wanted back, so she broke his heart by revealing that his brother was a criminal. It was just a petty act.

Petty, yeah.

But if a mere fact - even stated in spite - was enough to make Nick return to criminal acts, it doesn't seem like his resolve to change was that strong to begin with. He could have begun another business even if Julie wanted Wings.

JMO, but Nick's actions are Nick's responsibility.

[brisbydog]

59 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Petty, yeah.

But if a mere fact - even stated in spite - was enough to make Nick return to criminal acts, it doesn't seem like his resolve to change was that strong to begin with. He could have begun another business even if Julie wanted Wings.

JMO, but Nick's actions are Nick's responsibility.

One could say that about just about everyone in town 

[CanaryFan98]

22 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Been watching 1990 episodes all week.  Today I encountered Justin sounding just like Xander, telling Isabella that no matter what he's done for Victor it will never be enough, and he's walking away from him (mind you he was naming one of the twins after him 2 episodes later and hugging him). Thought it was interesting that he had the same struggles as the rest of the clan. He was also mourning Alex at this juncture as Angelica had faked his death. I watched Victor finding out he's Isabella's dad and the aftermath. Very different vibe. He's nicer to his girls.

Other thoughts:
-the writing for Jack was sublime and Matt was so good. His scenes with Stephen Nichols are amazing 
-Staci Greason as Isabella was luminous. Such a shame she quit acting. I'll always prefer her to Marlena 
-I had forgotten Julie tanked Nick Corelli's life and that's why he went bad overnight. Thanks Julie.

I loved the Wings set did they ever explain what happened to it? Or did it just disappear one day?

If you watched Jack back then it's hard to imagine what he's become now tbh. 

I also forgot about Julie/Nick now that you mention it. I liked Nick despite his faults. 

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I loved the Wings set did they ever explain what happened to it? Or did it just disappear one day?

It went poof. Probably a budgetary reason like so many other things.

[brisbydog]

11 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I loved the Wings set did they ever explain what happened to it? Or did it just disappear one day?

If you watched Jack back then it's hard to imagine what he's become now tbh. 

I also forgot about Julie/Nick now that you mention it. I liked Nick despite his faults. 

I believe Nick left Wings to Julie and she turned it back into Doug's place.

The scenes where Jack is basically apologizing to Steve for making love to Jennifer are so good. He carried the guilt about raping Kayla for years and really felt he deserved nothing. Having his two awful dads literally haunting him was genius.

Nick and Eve had amazing chemistry but according to Conrad Dunn the writers got scared and did a 180 on his character. Once Eve was put with boring Frankie Charlotte bailed within the year. I'd love for them to get a resolution story. He was working for gencon that revived Steve so it's always possible.

[CanaryFan98]

2 hours ago, brisbydog said:

I believe Nick left Wings to Julie and she turned it back into Doug's place.

The scenes where Jack is basically apologizing to Steve for making love to Jennifer are so good. He carried the guilt about raping Kayla for years and really felt he deserved nothing. Having his two awful dads literally haunting him was genius.

Nick and Eve had amazing chemistry but according to Conrad Dunn the writers got scared and did a 180 on his character. Once Eve was put with boring Frankie Charlotte bailed within the year. I'd love for them to get a resolution story. He was working for gencon that revived Steve so it's always possible.

That's wild the writers would get scared of such a thing back then shows how different soaps are now. This is the same show that paired Ben/Ciara and EJ/Sami together. 

Although I thought Charlotte left because of wanting to go to Primetime which she had a pretty good career in so it was the right move on her part. 

[brisbydog]

11 minutes ago, CanaryFan98 said:

That's wild the writers would get scared of such a thing back then shows how different soaps are now. This is the same show that paired Ben/Ciara and EJ/Sami together. 

Although I thought Charlotte left because of wanting to go to Primetime which she had a pretty good career in so it was the right move on her part. 

He said it was the age difference, the whole teen hooker and pimp past, the new writing team decided to shut it down. A huge shame as the writing for Nick and Eve had been so good and they were finally committed to pairing them.

Charlotte definitely made the right choice to go at that point

[brisbydog]

I am watching November 1991 now. Kayla is lying to Shane about Jeanne Theresa's paternity lol

The Mexico stuff and the double Roman stuff is so very good. And I love Bo and Isabella's sibling vibe.

[CanaryFan98]

9 hours ago, brisbydog said:

I am watching November 1991 now. Kayla is lying to Shane about Jeanne Theresa's paternity lol

The Mexico stuff and the double Roman stuff is so very good. And I love Bo and Isabella's sibling vibe.

This was a really bad period for Kayla tbh.  I get why MBE left at that point. Although she joined GH and I hated her character there lol. 

Bo always had great sibling relationships and they were all very unique too.

[brisbydog]

19 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

This was a really bad period for Kayla tbh.  I get why MBE left at that point. Although she joined GH and I hated her character there lol. 

Bo always had great sibling relationships and they were all very unique too.

I quit the show for a year and missed the Shane & Kayla stuff fortunately.

Hoping Xander meets Bo at some point. Doubtful but would be really cool

 

 

[brisbydog]

Lest we feel too bad for Nicole...

 

https://fb.watch/omynx4R5I2/?mibextid=NnVzG8

 

[spookyseason]

Been watching 1986 episodes all this time. Sometimes before, I caught the story arc where Bo and Hope and Steve teamed up to search for Britta and saved the Englund siblings who were Soviet defectors from KGB etc. Perhaps this was the writers' attemp to emulate the popularity of James Bond or Tom Clancy's series in the Cold War environment, but Days seemd to be not very effective at telling a story that involved politics. Convincing or not, they couldn't even find actors who could at least try to imitate an accent. The potrayers of Britta and Lars were native English speaker with no hints of Russian accent at all lol. It's beyond predictable that the writers continues to force Britta and Lars into Melissa and Steve and Bo's lives in order to boost the relevance of their existence. Could hardly wait to see both of them gone by 1987.

The reunion of Roman and Marlena in 86 felt rushed and anticlimatic. They spent tiny effort on characterization and re-connection while one part of the couple was recast. The entirety of John/Roman's purpose in the year so far is to dog Marlena every step. The two had nothing in common and hardly doing things that couple normally enjoy... All in all,  the writers failed to emphasize why this pairing are so special and should be put on pedestal in soap world. 

Also, I find Deidre's style somewhat similar to Maurice Bernard and Roger Howarth, who heavily rely on their scene-partners to carry the pairing.  Maybe this is the main explanation for Drake being stuck with Jarlena. 

If I don't know SN being a method actor and really nice person behind the scene and MBE trust him dearly, Steve's early interaction with Kayla (constant touching her face and hair) could be easily mistaken as inappropriate or harassment. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by spookyseason