Magic, Enchantments, and Curses: Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A place to talk about all the magical stuff in the Enchanted Forest, Storybrooke, and everywhere else!

We have heard from Regina and Gold that there's always a price for magic but it seems like we only see any consequences if it's something big (like Bae resurrecting Rumpelstiltskin or Regina undoing the curse). I'm not saying I need to see the price every time they do even the smallest spell but three seasons in, it's starting to feel like the show conveniently has no consequences for magic unless they want to create a dramatic moment or plot twist.

In contrast, there were visible consequences every time the teen witches on The Secret Circle did magic, no matter how big or small the spell. Yes, I just cited a crappy CW teen drama for doing something better.

[samhalliwell]

Sometimes I'd just prefer they'd accept magic as a force of nature in L'enchantement that can be harnessed and used via emotion and forget the whole "price" thing. The price is mostly something Rumple uses/used to intimidate/benefit from his deals, and sacrificing "the thing you love most" for the Curse(s) could very well be treated as an ingredient/requirement for any other ritualistic spell we've ever seen on any story that dealt with magic, ever. Again, the plot plot plot train runs over something that should really have been addressed (or hand-waved) in-show.

Also, is anyone else dreading the eternal use of Da Curse for the remainder of the show? It dawned on me not too long ago that, considering budget and settings and all that real-world stuff, the Storybrooke Curse is very likely here to stay not because it's a show staple within the story itself, but just because it simply is part of the logistics the crew and network have set for it. They might end it eventually, but I can still theorize and worry about it (because what else am I a fan for but that and nitpicking on the characters' hair/clothing?).

Edited April 1, 2014 by samhalliwell

[Camera One]

It dawned on me not too long ago that, considering budget and settings and all that real-world stuff, the Storybrooke Curse is very likely here to stay not because it's a show staple within the story itself, but just because it simply is part of the logistics the crew and network have set for it. They might end it eventually, but I can still theorize and worry about it (because what else am I a fan for but that and nitpicking on the characters' hair/clothing?).

Plus they need a place in "our world" to contrast with the Enchanted Forest.  

I do love Storybrooke, but in the mid-season finale "Going Home", they made it seem so final, with the cloud sweeping over and covering Storybrooke.  I genuinely felt sad.  I don't mind them bringing it back, but the very next episode?  Plus, they cannot break and re-enact the Curse again, because you can really only do that once... well, now they're at twice, but three times will NOT be the charm.  

[samhalliwell]

Plus they need a place in "our world" to contrast with the Enchanted Forest.  

I do love Storybrooke, but in the mid-season finale "Going Home", they made it seem so final, with the cloud sweeping over and covering Storybrooke.  I genuinely felt sad.  I don't mind them bringing it back, but the very next episode?  Plus, they cannot break and re-enact the Curse again, because you can really only do that once... well, now they're at twice, but three times will NOT be the charm.  

I assume the next logical step, if they wanted to get out of the Storybrooke setting, would be to make the expansion of magic in Our Land crisis-y. Then they could have The Dark One and the Evil Queen + True Love's Daughter and The Heart of the Truest Believer on a quest to save the world, or something along those lines. It would be very hard to do on a TV budget, I know, but it kinda sounds like a fun fanfic-like idea :)

[Camera One]

Where did Pandora's Box go? Could they have tried to trap Zelena in it?

[Shanna Marie]

Picking up a discussion from "All Seasons":

 

The whole adopting Henry scenario wouldn't have happened, since that was solely because she was bored, and this was after she already saw Snow getting her "just desserts".

And that's the stupidity of this curse as a means of revenge. Regina went through all that, including murdering her father, in order to transport the entire kingdom to another place, where they'd live mildly dissatisfying lives in an unchanging eternity. She was bored almost instantly. And yet she thought that this curse was her only solution to her terrible unhappiness. One thing Zelena was right about was in saying that the curse she cast was a fancy version of running away, except she brought everything she was running away from with her. You'd really have to be nuts to look at this curse and think it was a rational solution to your problems, no matter how much you hated someone.

 

As for the curse itself, it seems like Curse 1 had three different facets. #1 was the travel to another world, establishment of Storybrooke, and physical alteration of people to fit them into our world (Jiminy from cricket to human). #2 was the Groundhog Day existence in which people weren't aware of the passage of time. It seems they also lost some degree of free will, since they appeared to be more or less puppets for Regina, which was why she was bored. It was no fun bossing people around when they had no choice but to obey her, since that made their obedience meaningless. #3 was the fake identities and memories to keep everyone away from their true loves or anything else likely to make them happy.

 

We don't know if there's an actual way of undoing facet #1, other than the way Regina undid the curse at the end of 3A and sent everyone home in their "real" forms. Emma broke facet #2 just by arriving in town. That started time moving again, and it seemed like everyone had more free will. They were starting to make decisions for themselves even when it wasn't what Regina wanted them to do. I doubt that anyone would have voted against Regina's pick for sheriff before Emma came to town. In fact, no one would have run against her pick, and no one probably would have had any problem with there not being an election. People were starting to act more like their true selves and to strain against the roles they'd been placed in, like Kathryn having the sudden realization that she'd never actually loved David and was okay with him being with Mary Margaret, which was the way her true self, Abigail, felt. Who knows, maybe the curse would have just gradually eroded over time with Emma in town, even without the big True Love's Kiss that totally broke the last bit of the curse, the memory alteration.

 

Curse 2 only seemed to have facet #1, the transportation to a new world, establishment of Storybrooke and the physical alteration of non-humans into humans. Regina may have edited it when she did the prep work, or it could have been Snow's intention as she did the final casting. There was nothing to break, other than whatever they might need to do if they want to get back home. Zelena added the memory wipe, and that was the spell broken with a kiss.

[Mari]

Picking up a discussion from "All Seasons":

 

And that's the stupidity of this curse as a means of revenge. Regina went through all that, including murdering her father, in order to transport the entire kingdom to another place, where they'd live mildly dissatisfying lives in an unchanging eternity. She was bored almost instantly. And yet she thought that this curse was her only solution to her terrible unhappiness. One thing Zelena was right about was in saying that the curse she cast was a fancy version of running away, except she brought everything she was running away from with her. You'd really have to be nuts to look at this curse and think it was a rational solution to your problems, no matter how much you hated someone.

I think it was unsatisfying for the reasons you mentioned, but I think Rumple pulled a bit of a bait and switch.  I think Regina was expecting a whole lot more torture and gnashing of teeth--which she does seem to enjoy.  Instead, Rumple built in safety measures, because, well, he was going to be living there, too, and didn't want to get too much misery backsplash on himself.

 

He incorporated enough specifically targeted misery that it was technically what Regina thought she was getting, but included safety measures that wouldn't've been strictly necessary if the curse were being cast by a more benign person with more kind intentions.

 

(I've more thoughts, but probably shouldn't repeat the post I put on another thread.  It was a little unwieldy.)

[stealinghome]

Yeah, I've long thought that Regina probably didn't actually know what the curse was going to do. She probably expected it to be worse than it was.

[KAOS Agent]

You know, I'm not so sure about what Regina thought it would be like, but from their conversation in the cell, it sounded like Regina had all control over what happened to whom. Rumpel had her agreement that he would be comfortable in his cursed life, it didn't seem like he could do that for himself. It's why Regina thought he wanted to make another deal. Since I'm all over the transcripts today, here's where I'm getting the impression Rumpel didn't really have control over what happened to him or anyone else:

 

From "Save Henry"

 

Evil Queen: (Angrily) Your taunts will get you nowhere! I know you too well. You want to make another deal. Well, I won't.
Rumpelstiltskin: (Laughs) A deal? You already promised me a good life in this new land. What more can I want from you?
Evil Queen: Oh, to be let out of this cage. To be let out of our last deal. To escape the curse.

[Camera One]

I noticed from the quote that Regina, uh, I mean The Evil Queen, listed "To escape the Curse".  I know Regina could pluck people from other lands (Wonderland, Black and White Land).  But could Regina "leave out" someone from the Enchanted Forest?  

[KingOfHearts]

But could Regina "leave out" someone from the Enchanted Forest?  

 

I had this running theory that the curse only brought over who Regina wanted to bring over. Here's why:

 

- Storybrooke is not a big enough town to be home to an entire world of people.

- Regina said in The Doctor, "I brought over who I wanted"

- The Cora-Dome could not possibly have reached other realms. I just can't handwave that.

 

But unfortunately the showrunners had another plan... with more plot holes. The Cora-Dome is their go-to solution for curse plot holes, but it still doesn't work for me. Regina picking people with a Guest List of Evil would have made sense because the curse was catered to her wishes. It definitely would have explained Once: Wonderland.

Edited July 2, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

I assume that the curse's default was to bring over everyone in the Enchanted Forest, but that Regina could choose both to grab people she hated and wanted to make suffer from other realms (Frankenstein, Jefferson), and to leave people that she didn't like behind. So like, the default guest list was everyone in the Enchanted Forest, but she could add or subtract specific people.

Edited July 2, 2014 by stealinghome

[Camera One]

Why was Zelena's weakness light magic?  It can't be that light magic is always stronger than dark magic, otherwise the fairies would have taken out Rumple and Regina a long time ago. What is the logic behind that? That weakness just kind of poofed out of nowhere. 

 

Because Glinda is stupid?  So she gives Zelena a powerful broach which can only be removed by Light Magic.  And then she said she was never powerful enough to defeat Zelena, so even she doesn't have the Light Magic powerful enough to diffuse it.  Here's a gun, Unstable One, make us proud.

[Mari]

You know, I'm not so sure about what Regina thought it would be like, but from their conversation in the cell, it sounded like Regina had all control over what happened to whom. Rumpel had her agreement that he would be comfortable in his cursed life, it didn't seem like he could do that for himself. It's why Regina thought he wanted to make another deal. Since I'm all over the transcripts today, here's where I'm getting the impression Rumpel didn't really have control over what happened to him or anyone else:

 

From "Save Henry"

 

Evil Queen: (Angrily) Your taunts will get you nowhere! I know you too well. You want to make another deal. Well, I won't.

Rumpelstiltskin: (Laughs) A deal? You already promised me a good life in this new land. What more can I want from you?

Evil Queen: Oh, to be let out of this cage. To be let out of our last deal. To escape the curse.

I'm still in the camp that believes that Rumple played her to a degree--I think she did have control over a lot of it, but that one of the reasons it was so much more complicated than the second curse was because Rumple put in safeguards.

 

So, Regina could do what she wanted, but only within the confines Rumple had already laid out.  She just didn't know about the safeguards he put in place.

 

Rumple is too smart, and Regina is (or at least, was) too vindictive and impulsive for him to truly leave everything up to her.  Pretending she had complete control, though, while giving the "I'm fine inside my cage!" performance?  That keeps her thinking she's totally in charge, and getting exactly what she wants--the "I'm fine inside my cage" would convince her it's just bravado.

[Camera One]

It seemed to me like the bean Blue gave Bae might have been somehow supercharged. It was sparklier than I recall the other beans being, and she specifically said it was the last one known to her kind when we know there were other beans being grown around that time. So maybe it was the last bean capable of punching through to a world without magic and the beans Hook keeps getting his hands on are regular beans that can only open portals to worlds with magic.

 

That is definitely a viable explanation.  They could have used the Tiny episode to give a brief mention that there was more than one type of bean.  I would actually make sense that the bean that Blue gave Bae was superpowerful because I think all the other beans we've seen have been used to go to Storybrooke AFTER it had already been established.

 

Though the bean that Milah and Hook held from Rumple presumably could have gotten Rumple to a non-magical world too?  Since Rumple was trying to get it.  Though Hook just used it to get to Neverland.  It's ironic that if Milah and Hook had let Rumple have the bean, he wouldn't have needed to destroy countless lives to enact the Curse.  

[Camera One]

I just noticed in "A Curious Thing", when Charming asked Regina about beans and Jefferson's hat, Regina replied that there are no more portals for us, "for those of us who came back" or something to that effect.  

 

So is it possible that that the Curse Reversal blocked those people specifically from coming back to our world, until the Curse was recast?  Hook did use a bean but that was after the Curse was recast, so that's how he was able to get to NYC?

[Serena]

Yes, they did say something about the "un-curse" creating a "wall between worlds" that couldn't be breached even with beans. However, when Snowing cast another curse, the walls came down, and Hook was able to use the bean. 

[patchwork]

That is definitely a viable explanation.  They could have used the Tiny episode to give a brief mention that there was more than one type of bean.  I would actually make sense that the bean that Blue gave Bae was superpowerful because I think all the other beans we've seen have been used to go to Storybrooke AFTER it had already been established.

 

Though the bean that Milah and Hook held from Rumple presumably could have gotten Rumple to a non-magical world too?  Since Rumple was trying to get it.  Though Hook just used it to get to Neverland.  It's ironic that if Milah and Hook had let Rumple have the bean, he wouldn't have needed to destroy countless lives to enact the Curse.  

 

Perhaps Rumple thought he could figure out how the fairies supercharged the bean if he had access to their magic. Killing fairies and stealing their wands could have been about more than misplaced vengeance. 

 

Blue couldn't create more super beans herself because of a lack of pixie dust and bean growers. Then later on she had a lack of powerful fairies which is why she let Green away with so much before finally taking her wings.  

Edited July 7, 2014 by patchwork

[Serena]

The plothole in all of this is that there were lots of beans, up on the beanstalk, until the James and Jack fiasco. And that happened like 300 years after Bae fell into the portal. Cora could figure out how to get up the beanstalk easily, why couldn't Rumple? And then he could make a deal with the giants for the beans. And even assuming that the giants wouldn't trade the beans for anything, it only took James and Jack a small army to basically kill ALL the giants. So Rumple could have easily defeated them too.

[patchwork]

The plothole in all of this is that there were lots of beans, up on the beanstalk, until the James and Jack fiasco. And that happened like 300 years after Bae fell into the portal. Cora could figure out how to get up the beanstalk easily, why couldn't Rumple? And then he could make a deal with the giants for the beans. And even assuming that the giants wouldn't trade the beans for anything, it only took James and Jack a small army to basically kill ALL the giants. So Rumple could have easily defeated them too.

 

Your right and I knew something didn't quiet add up timeline wise but for the life of me I couldn't figure out what- I was confusing ogres and the Ogre War with giants.

[daxx]

Rumple wanted a way to go to the land without magic but also to take magic with him. He needed that true love potion he was looking for to complete his collection.

[kili]

I would actually make sense that the bean that Blue gave Bae was superpowerful because I think all the other beans we've seen have been used to go to Storybrooke AFTER it had already been established.

 

Didn't the last bean Hook use not take him to Storybrooke? He stated that he didn't know what the latest curse had done to inhabitants of Storybrooke (and Emma was all up in his grill using her "Superpower" so surely she would have detected that lie). If he did land in Storybrooke and immediately booked it out of there without seeing anybody, how did he get to New York so quickly? How did he even get out of town with the flying monkey patrol turning people into flying monkeys?

[Amerilla]

Not that they ever bothered to tell us, but I'm assuming at this point that Hook came directly to New York. If the idea of the portal is that it takes you where you want to go, and he wanted to go to Emma, I would imagine that's where the Bean of Contrivance put him.

[FormerMod-a1]

I agree with that @Amerilla . And since he didn't have the Jolly Roger it could have literally plopped in front of her door.

[Serena]

Yeah, I agree. I think the point was that estabilishing Storybrooke dissipated the "wall between worlds" that was created by Regina destroying the curse. Before the first curse, you could go to the World Without Magic using a few methods (the beans - Bae's method - and the slippers, Dorothy's method, plus the White Rabbit) but not others (Jefferson's hat only worked with travel between magical worlds). After the uncurse, you could not travel to the LWM at all because of this "barrier". Snowing's curse broke the barrier, and the old methods started working again.

 

The problem is that the writers started with the concept of "travel between worlds is SUPER difficult, there are no more beans!!". Then they started adding beans. Just one that Smee had, okay. I can buy one last one the escaped Blue's attention. But a whole field up the beanstalk? You're looking for magic beans, and you never think to check up the beanstalk?

 

So the only way to fanwank this - the reason Rumple didn't use the 3434 other methods at his disposal - is, like someone else said, that he wasn't willing to lose his magic. He was only willing to follow Bae to the LWM if he got to bring magic with him. Which just really makes him look super shitty. But either he's super shitty (not wanting to go without magic) or he's super dumb (being surrounded by those other world travel methods and never using them). So pick your poison!

[FormerMod-a1]

.... Before the first curse, you could go to the World Without Magic using a few methods (the beans - Bae's method - and the slippers, Dorothy's method, plus the White Rabbit) but not others (Jefferson's hat only worked with travel between magical worlds)....

Not quite.  Jefferson's hat could get you here, but you couldn't get back.  I think the same was true of other methods, like the slippers (?).  Since there was no magic here, you could get here, but you couldn't get back.   So since Rumple wanted to get here, still have magic and then be able to go back he needed way more than a bean or mermaid or whatever.  I'm not even sure Pan nor the shadow could come here before Bae came through the bean portal.  There was mention that the shadow started appearing when  Bae did.  Then add on the Regina's curse and Rumple bringing magic here once the curse broke and all kinds of magical-realm-keeping walls came down.  Reversing all that reset all that, and maybe made it even harder.

[ShadowFacts]

 

So the only way to fanwank this - the reason Rumple didn't use the 3434 other methods at his disposal - is, like someone else said, that he wasn't willing to lose his magic. He was only willing to follow Bae to the LWM if he got to bring magic with him. Which just really makes him look super shitty. But either he's super shitty (not wanting to go without magic) or he's super dumb (being surrounded by those other world travel methods and never using them). So pick your poison!

 

How about both super shitty and super dumb.  I have been thinking about him taking a couple hundred years.  Come on.  Wouldn't you kind of start hating yourself if you had immortality and magic and power and supposedly were very very cunning, and you could not crack this nut? 

[Camera One]

I have been thinking about him taking a couple hundred years.  Come on.  Wouldn't you kind of start hating yourself if you had immortality and magic and power and supposedly were very very cunning, and you could not crack this nut? 

Especially the very cunning part, which is what they keep trying to portray to us.  But given what they've told us about how easy it would have been to get beans, it just makes him look really dumb.

[Mari]

How about both super shitty and super dumb.  I have been thinking about him taking a couple hundred years.  Come on.  Wouldn't you kind of start hating yourself if you had immortality and magic and power and supposedly were very very cunning, and you could not crack this nut? 

If you combine that with a little tunnel vision--if he had a premonition that the curse would work, I can't see him going around that.  He'd already tried to bypass prophecy during the ogre wars, and look how well that turned out.  I can see him not paying much attention to anything not related to his vision.

[Serena]

Not quite.  Jefferson's hat could get you here, but you couldn't get back.  I think the same was true of other methods, like the slippers (?).  Since there was no magic here, you could get here, but you couldn't get back.   So since Rumple wanted to get here, still have magic and then be able to go back he needed way more than a bean or mermaid or whatever.  I'm not even sure Pan nor the shadow could come here before Bae came through the bean portal.  There was mention that the shadow started appearing when  Bae did.  Then add on the Regina's curse and Rumple bringing magic here once the curse broke and all kinds of magical-realm-keeping walls came down.  Reversing all that reset all that, and maybe made it even harder.

No, that's not true. You couldn't go to the WWM with Jefferson's hat. Either Rumple or Jefferson specifically says that. The "can't get back" problem was that the number of people who entered the hat had to be the same as the people who came back. Which wouldn't have been a problem for Rumple: he could have just dragged a random peasant with him, and left him there and brought back Bae (similar to what Regina did with Jefferson to bring her father back. Actually, it works even with corpses! Regina did it with Claude in Queen of Hearts). We haven't heard of any limitation with the slippers, but if only the wearer gets transported, it makes sense it's a one-person-only trip. 

[FormerMod-a1]

No, I thought Jefferson specifically said he couldn't get back from the land w/o magic, and that was separate from the needing the same number of people issue.

[KAOS Agent]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the hat could get you here, but you couldn't get back because it required magic. Of course, Jefferson managed to use it to grab the apple using only Regina's magic ring, so it seems like Rumpel could have just brought a more powerful magical item to use to make it work for him to get back, but whatever. They also conveniently didn't get to the room with all the doors when Snow & Emma fell through it, they just ended up in the Enchanted Forest. The writers aren't consistent at all with the magic of the hat. 

[Camera One]

This was in "The Doctor":

 

Rumplestiltskin: What about the slippers?
Jefferson: Oh. Couldn't find 'em. Heard talk they'd already been moved to another land.
Rumplestiltskin: That's what I needed to get to that other land.
Jefferson: Well, come with me in my hat. I'm sure we can work something out.
Rumplestiltskin: No, no. Your hat only transports between magical realms. I need to get to a land without magic.
Jefferson: Why would anyone want that?
Rumplestiltskin: My business.

 

--------

 

I suppose the Curse broke the barriers between Earth and the magical lands, since Storybrooke itself became a "realm" with magic, so now the Hat can work as a full portal when previously it could not.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

But see, it just gets messy because if the hat simply couldn't get you here and couldn't get you back, why did Jefferson want Emma to make him a new hat? All it seemed to require was a magical item to power it, be it a magical Emma or a magical ring, but it never seemed limited in terms of where it could go to as long as there was some sort of magic on the flip side to return you. I think "The Doctor" was a ret-con to fill the plot hole created by the hat.

 

From "Hat Trick"

Jefferson (to Emma): A real world. (Leans toward her) How arrogant are you to think yours is the only one? There are infinite more. You have to open your mind. They touch one another, pressing up in a long line of lands, each just as real as the last. All have their own rules. Some have magic, some don't. And some need magic... Like this one. (Handing her scissors) And that's where you come in. You and your friend are not leaving here until you make my hat. Until you get it to work.

 

This implies that the hat will work with a little magic thrown in. And "An Apple Red as Blood" proved that theory to be correct, they just didn't have enough magic available to make a full portal.

 

From "An Apple Red as Blood"

Regina: What’s wrong? Why isn’t it opening a portal?

Jefferson: The magic – it’s not enough. We can’t go anywhere.

Regina: Then you failed.

Jefferson: Maybe not. There’s enough magic to touch the other side, just not to get us there. There might be enough to… Reach through and retrieve something.

[Camera One]

They touch one another, pressing up in a long line of lands, each just as real as the last. All have their own rules. Some have magic, some don't.

 

This is the specific line that contradicts what Rumple says in "The Doctor".

 

Whatever powers the hat doesn't affect where the hat cannot go, and according to Rumple, it couldn't have gone to Earth.  

 

Ret-con or not, we're supposed to believe Rumple knows what he's talking about.  The writers can get around it by saying Rumple knows more about the hat than even Jefferson.  Based on what they wrote in "The Doctor", Jefferson was only travelling between a certain, limited number of realms.

[KAOS Agent]

One could also read Rumpel's line about the hat only being able to travel between magical realms to imply that he wanted to come back and since it's not possible to return from a non-magical realm with the hat, there's no "between" travel available, just a one way trip. Truthfully, I think the hat is just one of many things the writers never put any thought into except for it to be capable of doing or not doing what they wanted for the specific plot of the day.

Edited July 9, 2014 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

His next line is "I need to get to" Earth, implying that the hat can't even get him there.  We haven't heard Rumple talk about coming back.

 

I do agree that the writers did not put enough thought into their hat, as per usual, but I do think Rumple's line is quite clear and that is what the writers had decided in the end.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Camera One

[Aliasscape]

I'm completely with Camera One. If Rumpel could have gotten to Bae, he would have. Considering the curse he planned was going to take decades before he'd even remember Bae existed to go see him, plus it basically destroyed the Enchanted Forest so that there'd be nothing to get back to, there's absolutely no reason to believe he was refusing to come to our world because he couldn't get back. 

 

I truly believe that Rumpel would have risked never being able to return to the Enchanted Forest if it meant he'd get to Bae sooner. Or with the magical worlds problem, he only needed to bring magic with him to our world to make it so the hat would be able to return him if that was the case.

 

In which case, the second he bottled true love, he wouldn't have needed to write a curse or hide true love in a dragon. He would have just brought a bottle of true love with him through the hat.

[Camera One]

When was "light magic" referred to in Season 1-2?  I'm a little confused by Light Magic and who has it exactly.

 

A Curious Thing:

 

Glinda: Long ago, I gave her a pendant to help focus it.  Her magic has resided inside of it ever since.

Snowing: So if we can remove it, she'll lose her power, and we can defeat her?

Glinda: Yes, but only a purveyor of the strongest light magic will be able to accomplish such a feat.
Snowing: Light magic?
Glinda: Magic created from love.
Snowing: Emma.  Our daughter.  She's the product of true love.  She's the Savior.
Glinda: If she is as pure and powerful as you say, then yes.  She, and only she, can defeat Zelena.

 

First of all, "long ago"?  Isn't Glinda immortal?  If that's the case, didn't she meet Zelena practically yesterday in forever terms?  Don't even get me started on "Long ago, Zelena and I were friends".  LOL!  I'd hardly call that a friendship.  

 

Second of all, Glinda specifically said "she and only she".  Why did the writers get so specific with that?  Did they not realize at that point Regina would defeat Zelena?   This conversation made it seem like only the offspring of True Love wields light magic.  But since Regina can do it, it's actually anyone who has true love that can use light magic?  So that means anyone in the Enchanted Forest who loves their child and learns magic can do Light Magic?  

 

And then, there's what the Blue Fairy says in "There's No Place Like Home", when she arrives after Insect Snow summons her:

 

 

Dark magic did this to her.  Light magic can undo it.

 

So now the Blue Fairy has Light Magic too?   I thought her magic just works with fairy dust.  And if Light Magic is "magic created from love"... I'm pretty sure the Blue Fairy doesn't particularly love anybody.  It's against her code of rules.  Unless loving your job also counts.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Light Magic is referenced in 2x11, The Outsider, iirc. Grumpy gives Belle some fairy dust and tells her, "You've seen what dark magic can do. This is light magic."

 

Magic wielders can wield both light and dark magic, it seems. Dark magic is created from anger and hatred, while light magic is created from love. Fairy dust contains light magic, I believe. I don't think the fairies can use magic without wands, which in turn are powered by fairy dust. Snow used dark fairy dust (fairy dust containing dark magic), probably taken from the dark fairy. I'm willing to bet the dark fairy's wand is powered by dark fairy dust. Where dark fairy dust comes from... I have no idea. It must have had enough fuel in it left to reopen the time portal, as well as switch Henry and Pan back.

Edited July 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[ShadowFacts]

 

Second of all, Glinda specifically said "she and only she".  Why did the writers get so specific with that?  Did they not realize at that point Regina would defeat Zelena?

 

Good catch.  Looks like Glinda was spouting even more nonsense than I remembered.  That's a pretty big writing blooper.  Unless they just wanted to smack us in the head with the surprise of Regina being a light magic wielder.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Second of all, Glinda specifically said "she and only she".  Why did the writers get so specific with that?  Did they not realize at that point Regina would defeat Zelena?

 

Snow and Charming gave Glinda the impression that Emma was the only strong light magic wielder they knew of. So Glinda assumed she was the only one who could defeat Zelena. 

 

(I would have loved to find out that Glinda actually could defeat Zelena, but she was banished with no escape before she could. Better excuse for her to be useless, eh?)

Edited July 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

(I would have loved to find out that Glinda actually could defeat Zelena, but she was banished with no escape before she could. Better excuse for her to be useless, eh?

 

Unfortunately, Glinda also said this:

 

Snowing: We were told your light magic could help defeat the Wicked Witch.  We've come to ask for your help.

Glinda: I'm sorry.  My magic is not powerful enough to defeat Zelena.  It never has been.

 

So does this mean Glinda couldn't even beat Zelena before giving her that pendant?  Someone should go to the Wizard to get a brain.  Also grab another one for that Witch of the North/East who piped up and prompted Glinda to tell Zelena about the prophesy in the Book.

 

Instead of poofing Dorothy and herself to the Emerald City to see the Wizard to get Dorothy home, Glinda also suggested they walk the Yellow Brick Road.  Is that part of Glinda's exercise regiment, or she's not powerful enough to transport two people at once?

Edited July 12, 2014 by Camera One

[ShadowFacts]

But Regina pure and powerful?  Didn't Glinda prevent Regina from going through the door because she wasn't pure of heart or something like that?  I might be mixing this up with something that happened in 'Wonderland'. 

[Camera One]

Didn't Glinda prevent Regina from going through the door because she wasn't pure of heart or something like that?

 

You have it right.  I'm curious who built that door too.  Glinda was banished there, but she decided to add a door that only pure of heart individuals can enter for extra security?  She also likes it extra cold, I guess.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Camera One

[stealinghome]

That's what really pisses me off about the idea that Regina has light magic: if all your magic depends on is your intent when you cast it, imo that makes the idea of "light" or "dark" functionally meaningless. Shouldn't all Rumpel's craptastic magical deeds therefore be light, because they were rooted in love for Bae? Couldn't you argue that Regina did all she did for love of Daniel? It just doesn't work for me.

[KingOfHearts]

It's my understanding that light magic can't do inherently evil things. You can't use light magic to murder someone, for example.

 

 

Shouldn't all Rumpel's craptastic magical deeds therefore be light, because they were rooted in love for Bae?

 

Rumple also enjoyed idle cruelty. His ways of getting to Bae via magic were not healthy nor driven by love for his son, but rather his anger. He explains this in The Miller's Daughter, where he reveals he drives his magic from his resentment toward the man who made him kiss his boot. Regina, although she loved Daniel, doesn't take her magic from that. She was taught by Rumple to use her anger. It was pretty much laid out in 3x20 that using light magic was a very alien idea to Regina. She didn't even think of herself as capable of drawing power from love. Both their intents came from anger, not love.

 

It was Regina's love for Robin that gave her the ability to use light magic, and it was Rumple's love for Belle that made him almost TLK her.

 

Random thought: Dark magic has a price, but I don't think light magic does. We haven't seen it have any, anyway.

Edited July 12, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

All magic has a price. It has been said time and again except the only people who ever pay for using magic are the good guys or innocent bystanders.

[KingOfHearts]

 

All magic has a price. It has been said time and again except the only people who ever pay for using magic are the good guys or innocent bystanders.

 

That's what Rumple says, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. We've never seen light magic have a price on the show. Rumple probably assumes all magic has a price, because dark magic is all he knows.

[KAOS Agent]

Actually, we have seen light magic have a price. Emma specifically discusses the price after she uses magic to read Pongo's memories. It's not like it's a blatant thing like a shock of pain or something. In that case, it was gaining knowledge about an event and having to deal with the resulting fallout of that knowledge.