S01.E10: Future

[portfino]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think Adam's that stupid nor does it explain his switch regarding his family.

 

And I don't believe at all that Adam wanted to believe Rachel was insane. I think that was Rachel self-justifying.

[Cecily]

Count me in on the Shiri Appleby praise. I never gave that actress much credit based on what I've seen her do before ("Roswell" and "Life Unexpected"). But somewhere along the road of this first season I went: "Damn, that woman can act!". Constance Zimmer and Craig Bierko also stand out to me. Say what you will of the soapiness of the show, but these actors definitly make the most of their outrages characters and take them to a level that exceeds soap opera acting by lightyears.

[Glade]

I think Adam is flawed, but ultimately showed himself to be a good person, teaming up with Rachel at times to subvert the more cynical and exploitative aspects of everlasting.  I rooted for him and for them together, as they do have the foundation for an actual relationship, more then he did with the contestants on the show.  I don't agree with slut-shaming him, as the entire premise behind the bachelor/ette shows is one person simultaneously dating/romantically considering over a dozen people at a time.  I don't blame him for not taking that seriously, and I don't agree with Anna's sudden revulsion either (though she was prone to being manipulated by the producers, obviously.)  It's a game show, and Adam was the one being used, despite his attempts to negotiate something out of it. 

[portfino]

I think Adam is flawed, but ultimately showed himself to be a good person, teaming up with Rachel at times to subvert the more cynical and exploitative aspects of everlasting.  I rooted for him and for them together, as they do have the foundation for an actual relationship, more then he did with the contestants on the show.  I don't agree with slut-shaming him, as the entire premise behind the bachelor/ette shows is one person simultaneously dating/romantically considering over a dozen people at a time.  I don't blame him for not taking that seriously, and I don't agree with Anna's sudden revulsion either (though she was prone to being manipulated by the producers, obviously.)  It's a game show, and Adam was the one being used, despite his attempts to negotiate something out of it. 

As much as I was critical of parts of the finale, that's part of the show I thought was fascinating.

 

Imagine every other Suitor on Everlasting who was there at least partly to find love and wasn't trying to expose the falseness of the show. He probably broke the hearts of many of the final few contestants (I presume early exits don't care that much) while Adam just hurt Anna. Some of them even callously. But because it was "real" it didn't matter what the total damage was. Ironically, the more you try to expose the falseness the more punishment you get.

 

That's what I like about the show - the bottomless swamp of perceiving oneself, others, and "reality," and our obsession with authenticity, which is certainly nice but not a stand-in for goodness. It's when people act stupid or inconsistently, it bothers me.

[Silo]

still wish we got a bit more of who Grace was outside of their show roles. Grace demonstrated so much pain, anger, and resentment at how she was cast. I wish we got see the full three-dimensional picture of who she is.

I don't feel sorry for Grace at all. She led with her sexuality, her looks, her giving blowjobs to Adam in the beginning. You can't lead with that image and then be upset at how you're perceived.

[steeledwithakiss]

Adam's characterization did leave me confused. He's shown from the beginning 2 things: his unwillingness to follow the rules and his sluttiness. Through the course of the show we saw he was not exactly a good guy but he was not a sociopath either. He was nice to the girls, went out of his way to make Faith feel good about herself and protected her secret. I think it was pretty obvious when his friend Roger showed up he had some decency left (whereas Roger was just a horrible human being). I understand totally how he could change his mind about leaving it all behind and lose the opportunity to get his vineyard renovated, especially if Rachel was not the "strong woman" he thought she was. Drama, mental illness, intensity as he called it, is not something he's ready to deal with (he was very uncomfortable dealing with Mary before her suicide).

 

However I do think the writers sacrificed his characterization, and the layers they had themselves written, because it was the last episode and their endgame was: love is not something you build your life around, men are unreliable, Quinn and Rachel might be twisted but at the end of the day they got each other's back. I don't think there's anything wrong with that message. Adam struggling with what he did more than 5 seconds would have cancelled out all that. We'd be left thinking Rachel and him were star crossed lovers and Quinn was the evil witch. That was not what the show was trying to tell at all.

Edited August 8, 2015 by steeledwithakiss

[algebra]

Throughout the whole season the juxtaposition of the show's producers trying to advance the "royalty" angle with a "suitor" named Cromwell, and Quinn et al believing they can reign supreme over anybody named Cromwell made me think we were in for an execution if not a revolution. It was the Cromwells who made sure Anne Boleyn and Charles I both lost their heads. I wouldn't turn my back on anybody named Cromwell.

[whirledweary]

This show is sweet, smart revenge for decades of network TV's clichéd roles for women.  Thank you writers for having so much fun with the script.  Each woman on this show is struggling with what's real, what's important, and what's needed to get what they want. Just like all of us.  We all are manipulative and portray ourselves in inauthentic ways to get what we want.  The higher the stakes, the crazier we get.  We want it all.  We want true, romantic love and we want to be bad asses at our jobs without everyone hating us.  And why is it that the men with the biggest egos get strokes for being misogynistic? /smirk/ I want Rachel and Quinn to produce Donald Trump's next reality show.

[aradia22]

 

 

I don't feel sorry for Grace at all. She led with her sexuality, her looks, her giving blowjobs to Adam in the beginning. You can't lead with that image and then be upset at how you're perceived.

I don't feel bad for her but I think there was a more interesting character for UnReal. I don't know if the Everlasting character deserved any more time than she got but the UnReal character kept hinting at a backstory that was never fully explored.

 

Adam struggling with what he did more than 5 seconds would have cancelled out all that. We'd be left thinking Rachel and him were star crossed lovers and Quinn was the evil witch. That was not what the show was trying to tell at all.

I think that's one of the things I picked up on. It's why I'm not content with the way Adam was written in the finale and why I wasn't quite satisfied with the Quinn and Rachel scene at the end. Reading that, I can see what they were going for but I don't think it was successful and they kind of cheated to get there. I think good stories are about the journey. They skipped some steps so the final message felt unearned and false. All the tension between Quinn and Rachel was very hard to read (in a bad way). 

 

Throughout the whole season the juxtaposition of the show's producers trying to advance the "royalty" angle with a "suitor" named Cromwell, and Quinn et al believing they can reign supreme over anybody named Cromwell made me think we were in for an execution if not a revolution. It was the Cromwells who made sure Anne Boleyn and Charles I both lost their heads. I wouldn't turn my back on anybody named Cromwell.

That reminds me. I forget if it was this episode or last episode but they lampshaded the thing about Adam not being a prince so none of the girls could be a princess. How did Everlasting never explain that he was an earl? I kind of like the idea of a Thomas Cromwell-like Adam. More devious and scrappy and out for power. I think it would have gelled with the Adam who was good at manipulating the girls, who was always trying to get with Rachel, and who was determined to make something of himself with his hotels.

[Zuleikha]

One of the thing that I think is interesting about what Rachel did that the show couldn't really explore in the time it had is that she probably saved Adam from a year of misery. Adam didn't really want to marry Anna (or Grace) or do Royal Renovations. He just got talked into it (by Rachel!) and then couldn't see a way out.

 

There's an interesting parallel with what Quinn did, where I think Quinn really did save Rachel from making an impulsive mistake. Both Quinn and Rachel acted selfishly rather than out of mercy, but I do also think both Rachel and Adam are better off in the long run. It's part of why I hope the writers figure out how to bring Adam back for next season (he does, after all, still have some kind of deal with Chet and friend for the Everlasting Spa). It also would be believable to me if Anna, the season's bitch, dumping Adam caused people to like Adam more and be even more sympathetic to/interested in him. For those familiar with the Melissa/Jason/Molly saga, it seems reminiscent of how people rallied around Melissa. But of course, the writers could write it another way if that serves their story better.

 

 

 

I don't know if the Everlasting character deserved any more time than she got but the UnReal character kept hinting at a backstory that was never fully explored.

Yes, that's it exactly. Grace was more than just the one who gave Adam a blowjob, and I'm frustrated that we only got glimpses into the fullness of her because those glimpses made me want to know more about her. Also, I don't think engaging in consensual sexual activity means that Grace--even on Everlasting--should be reduced to simply the Brazilian sexpot or the slut. We should be beyond that point.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Zuleikha

[aradia22]

 

It also would be believable to me if Anna, the season's bitch, dumping Adam caused people to like Adam more and be even more sympathetic to/interested in him.

Yes! I think that was another reason it felt rushed. Earlier in the season we're very confident in Rachel's machinations. This didn't feel like the strongest plan and they didn't sell it as though it was. We also have the complication of this weird week to week show they've set up and now a live wedding. But we got no sense of how the audience is feeling about the participants at this point. It was more about making a point about Rachel and Quinn. Which is all well and good but it left me uncertain of how I was supposed to feel. It's not that I was lost by the complex storytelling but it pulled away the context that was anchoring the story.

[algebra]

I was hoping we'd hear more about the network, the advertisers, the ratings.

I get the whole angle that eternal romance is being sold by people who have so totally failed at it themselves. There's going to be a limit to how many times they can trot out that horse.

[portfino]

I feel they couldn't do a Grace episode for the same reason they couldn't show Adam hesitating about not going off with Rachel, it would undermine the theme of the show. A feature on Grace would impact how we viewed the other contestants, particularly Anna. And even if they were still convincing that Anna was there for the right reasons, it would have felt like dumb luck that the one woman Adam actually spurned was the "winner."

[Emily Thrace]

However I do think the writers sacrificed his characterization, and the layers they had themselves written, because it was the last episode and their endgame was: love is not something you build your life around, men are unreliable,

This is probably the one slightly disappointing aspect of the finale because I feel this is one of the more common "feminist" themes that's actually more misandry if your really think about it. The idea that men are unreliable and women are better off without them is one of those stereotypes that hurts men and women both IMO. Its why women so often get stuck with a second shift at home and men feel in adequate. Personally I'm choosing to interpret it more as Adam and Chet are not worth and Quinn and especially Rachel need to love themselves more before they really love anybody else.

[ladle]

I think the reason I disliked Jeremy so much (even before the finale) was that his character was so poorly drawn - I never knew why I was supposed to care about him as anything other than a prop for Rachel.  I get that the show had a limited number of episodes and, with that limitation, they really did a fantastic job of fleshing out so many different personalities.  But a *little* back story on Jeremy might have been nice.  What were his motivations for doing any of the things he did this season?  Even that subplot about moving to New York or getting a promotion - who cares?  Why did it matter? 

 

Maybe we'll get some of that next season.  Or a black hole could swallow Jeremy, and that would be fine too. 

 

Like others, I also would have liked to get more of a sense of how audience response played into the making of the show.  They did only a smidgen of that with their throwaway comment about how Faith was a fan favorite, and I was actually confused about that because don't these Bachelor-type reality shows usually wrap up filming and then air?  Also, when they brought Britney "back," I was confused about that too because I thought on these types of shows they typically kept the contestants on site, so it wasn't immediately clear to the public who was being kicked off when?

[CalamityBoPeep]

I think Quinn not only knows she doesn't want a baby, but also that her moment of "buying what they sell" was really briefer than brief.  I guess my earlier assessment that she knew she didn't want Chet, once she'd caught him, was wrong.  But I still maintain that the indications that she did want him were really just evidence that she was able to produce herself too.  She pulled the wool over her own eyes, very very briefly.

Edited August 10, 2015 by stacey

[dubbel zout]

Even that subplot about moving to New York or getting a promotion - who cares?  Why did it matter?

It showed he has ambitions beyond the show and was actively working to get out. Moving to New York was also a way to get away from Rachel.

 

I still maintain that the indications that she did want him were really just evidence that she was able to produce herself too.  She pulled the wool over her own eyes, very very briefly.

 

It was kind of heartbreaking in a way. Even someone like Quinn isn't immune to the Disney-prince fantasy we're all sold.

[portfino]

 

More devious and scrappy and out for power. I think it would have gelled with the Adam who was good at manipulating the girls, who was always trying to get with Rachel, and who was determined to make something of himself with his hotels.

I preferred this version of Adam more than the Prince Charming of the penultimate episode or the idiot in the finale.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's return to the topic of the episode please.

[MakeMeLaugh]

...

Finally, this was an interesting experience, but I won't be back next season.  This show is about unhappy people who work in a soul-crushing environment, humiliating and manipulating others, fall-out be damned. Life is too short for me to invest even 43 minutes in more of that.

Me neither. I need a hero somewhere in the cast; making everyone so broken, manipulative, and/or unlikeable made this a one-note show of evil vs evil for me. I watched the first six or so episodes and then it fell off my radar. But the two main actresses are amazing and I look forward to seeing them in other things.

[romantic idiot]

I will definitely be back, and hoping that Adam will be back too. But I did want to clarify one thing - if my extensive study of Barbara Cartland and other historical novels is correct, Dukes and Duchesses are actually part of royalty. Marquis and below are part of the nobility (upto Barons, I think, not sure about Knights because those titles are not inheritable). But the show wasn't wrong about the Duke thing. 

 

And Jeremy is horrible. 

Edited October 20, 2015 by romantic idiot

[dubbel zout]

Dukes are a part of royalty only if they're royal dukes, i.e., titles given by the sovereign, most often to younger sons. The current royal duchies are: Lancaster (one of the monarch's titles), Cornwall, Rothesay (both part of the Prince of Wales's titles), York, Gloucester, Kent, Edinburgh, and Cambridge (all these usually given to younger sons of monarchs). All of these holders are either HM or HRH.

 

There are about 20 non royal dukedoms—their title is Your/His Grace.

[romantic idiot]

Fascinating. Thanks!!

[Miles]

Well Jeremy is a dick. I get that Rachel is a bad person and I wouldn't trust her as far as I can throw the mountain from game of thrones (her I could throw too far to trust), but were they even officially back together at that point? It certainly didn't seem like they had talked about exclusivity or anything. In any case, that public shaming was complete bullshit.

 

On 4.8.2015 at 5:23 AM, Lovecat said:

My DVR cut off the end--what did Jeremy say to Rachel's mother?

Weird. That scene isn't on the amazon prime version. The second to last scene is where Jeremy drives the woman who switched the meds to the police and the last is the one where Rachel plots revenge on Quinn with Chet.

I wonder why they cut it? Did they think it would make Jeremy look too much of a douche? Or did that not go anywhere? If so, from the premier of season two it looks like

Spoiler

both of the other two plotlines I just mentioned don't go anywhere either. Quinn is head bitch in charge, working with Rachel, Chet was off for 6 months and the police hasn't shut anything down or even delayed production.

Very weird.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Miles