I Am Cait in the Media

[HumblePi]

And this is how I read it:  

 

Like many Americans my age, I never really thought about gay marriage or how important the equality of marriage should be.  But my mind has opened and my thinking has evolved and I am support gay marriage.  

 

I'm not sure she even has anything to apologize for; It's not like she was campaigning for Prop 8 or something.  Caitlyn used to think about gay marriage the same way the majority of people in her generation thought about it for year s - if they thought about it at all.    Then her consciousness was raised, mind was open and she changed her thinking.   Anytime that happens, that someone decides to become more inclusive in their thinking,  I see that as a good thing. 

This is how I read it.

 

Like many old Republicans my age, I never cared whether gays had a right to marry or not. I have essentially agreed with the Christian RightWing thinking that only a man and a woman should be allowed to be married. I aligned myself with that way of thinking because it's how the moral majority thinks and I want to be viewed as a moral person, just like them.. When I decided to transition to a woman which was more important to me than any gay issues of others, I thought about it and decided that yes, it's fine for gays to marry.

 

Caitlyn Jenner is involved with the politics of one person,  the politics of Caitlyn Jenner. It's what she says she believes that's more important than what she actually believes. Caitlyn's gender is only one part of who she is. During the first six decades of her life, she agreed with conservative Republican ideas. Political preferences didn't translate into patriotism when Bruce Jenner won Olympic gold in 1976. Isn't it just a little coincidental and convenient that after 65 years her consciousness is suddenly awakened? It's obvious that the enlightenment occurs right on the heels of her coming out and not only wanting but desperately needing that public acceptance.

 

"Waving the flag at the 1976 Olympics wasn’t my idea. It was too much apple pie and ice cream. Not that I don’t love my country, but I felt it was my victory up there, I put all the time into it."

 

Don’t want that pesky nationalism taking credit for your hard work.

[Glade]

I really don't care very much about how important it is for gay couples to have the right to get married.  But after Ellen made me look like a homophobe on the Howard Stern show, and after hearing from my agent that it could affect my credibility and future marketability, it became clear to me that I better say whatever it is the gay people want to hear.

 

 

I completely agree.  And also, it's politically quite easy to suddenly hold your nose and be 'fine with it,' now that gay marriage is the law of the land and you won't have to actually do anything to support the long, hard road it took to get there.  Perhaps she will also come around and say she is 'fine with' housing for the disproportionately high percentage of LGBT youth, so long as she doesn't have to do anything about it because it would be against her right wing economic ideals.

[millennium]

And this is how I read it:  

 

Like many Americans my age, I never really thought about gay marriage or how important the equality of marriage should be.  But my mind has opened and my thinking has evolved and I am support gay marriage.  

 

I'm not sure she even has anything to apologize for; It's not like she was campaigning for Prop 8 or something.  Caitlyn used to think about gay marriage the same way the majority of people in her generation thought about it for year s - if they thought about it at all.    Then her consciousness was raised, mind was open and she changed her thinking.   Anytime that happens, that someone decides to become more inclusive in their thinking,  I see that as a good thing. 

 

We can only agree to disagree.

Edited September 15, 2015 by millennium

[Kromm]

The problem with the consciousness raised type arguments always seems with Ms. Jenner to be no real sense of sincerity. I admit she's in a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't situation. If she says her true feelings she's hated even more. If she lies, she comes off as even MORE fake and insincere than she usually does. And I'd be sympathetic to that Catch-22 if she was a better person.

Transgender people don't have to be all of one mind anymore than gay people or African Americans or women or any group. If Caitlyn Jenner is anti gay marriage? Well to be frank... so what? I mean she's a hypocrite who's endorsement and heroic pumping up by activists becomes instantly ridiculous, and slamming her for that hypocrisy is not only right, but necessary. And the actual anti-gay marriage stance is neolithic to be sure. My point is mostly that what one doddering old fool thinks is being given inflated importance because said fool paid off a series of people to get famous again and be declared a national hero again before anyone had the common sense to ask the old fool what it really meant to support that cause. She pulled the wool over people's eyes, but ultimately her opinion is a bit of kiddie piss in an ocean, rather than just in a kiddie pool.

[Cosmic Muffin]

If her show really isn't getting a second season I think she's about to become irrelevant. And without a platform to share whatever it is she shares. So that's good.

[millennium]

I mean she's a hypocrite who's endorsement and heroic pumping up by activists becomes instantly ridiculous, and slamming her for that hypocrisy is not only right, but necessary.

 

You are not alone in your opinion:

 

 

 

Criticizing Caitlyn Jenner Isn’t “Harsh.” It’s Necessary.

By J. Bryan Lowder

 

Last week, I wrote about a string of comments from Caitlyn Jenner that showed her personal politics—on issues ranging from same-sex marriage to transphobic Halloween costumes—to be notably adrift from the LGBTQ mainstream. As I said then, being gay or trans obviously does not oblige one to take any particular position on policy or humor—we queer folks are a diverse group, and that diversity extends to ideology. Of course, our marginalization means that certain positions—say, supporting a Republican Party that continues to rail against the best interests of queer people—will seem odd or troubling when adopted by a queer person and likely come under criticism from fellow queers. That arguably the most well-known trans woman of the moment was producing a parade of that kind of dissonance seemed worthy of note.

 

While the large majority of readers shared my confusion, a certain contingent pushed back. Jenner is new at this LGBTQ community thing, the more compassionate line went; you’re being too harsh and should give her more time to come around. “To be fair,” one commenter wrote, “she never really asked to be the spokesperson for the trans or LGBTQ community or to be considered a ‘hero’, just wanted to live as the gender she identifies as. And women come in all sorts.”

 

I definitely endorse that last thought—but the previous point, that Jenner doesn’t want to be a spokeswoman or a hero and just aims to live quietly? Hardly. From the beginning of Jenner’s public transition—the relentless teasing of the Diane Sawyer interview and the splashy Buzz Bissinger cover story, the perfectly timed reality show launch and endless stream of interviews and appearances—she has made her trans identity central to her celebrity and continued income. To be clear, there is nothing necessarily wrong with doing this. But it absolutely opens that person up to heightened scrutiny and necessarily politicizes her actions, especially when that person knows very well that she is the face of “trans” for many cis/straight Americans. It is not “harsh” to critique her rhetoric; to the contrary, it would be foolish and unethical not to.

 

Also, it works. In a post to her own blog today, written on the occasion of the season finale of her E! show, I Am Cait, Jenner seemed to respond to the criticism, noticeably strengthening her support of same-sex marriage and admitting that “I’m far from perfect and will make some mistakes along the way.” Jenner also advanced her own version of the “we’re all different” argument:

 

"One of the many lessons that these fabulous women have taught me is that—despite all being transgender—they each feel differently about particular issues. It’s important to have an open dialogue with the trans people in your life about their unique viewpoints and not lump us all together. Just because I think something is funny or appropriate, doesn’t mean that all trans people feel the same way and vice versa. I can only speak from my own personal experience and in no way can I represent the entire trans community. My opinion is just that, my own opinion. There’s no one way to be trans!"

 

All this is well-taken. But the fact remains that Jenner has a platform—one that she has aggressively constructed and that exists in its enhanced state because she is out as trans. And, right or wrong, what she says counts in the minds of many observers as far more than her “own opinion.” Yes, everyone deserves the chance to learn and grow; but then again, feeling empathy for your fellow queer or seeing how shrugging off the work of the activists who laid the way for your grand entrance might be bad form don’t seem to be the hardest “lessons” to learn. Perhaps any toddling about might be better done in private before you enter the public eye in such an intense and willful way. Because once you’re there, you can and should be held accountable for your missteps. That's how real community works.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/09/14/caitlyn_jenner_s_i_am_cait_ends_but_criticism_of_her_comments_shouldn_t.html

 

 

she has made her trans identity central to her celebrity and continued income

 

That just galls me.  And I believe it is the number one reason why people question her sincerity.

Edited September 16, 2015 by millennium

[freeradical]

And this is how I read it:

Like many Americans my age, I never really thought about gay marriage or how important the equality of marriage should be. But my mind has opened and my thinking has evolved and I am support gay marriage.

I'm not sure she even has anything to apologize for; It's not like she was campaigning for Prop 8 or something. Caitlyn used to think about gay marriage the same way the majority of people in her generation thought about it for year s - if they thought about it at all. Then her consciousness was raised, mind was open and she changed her thinking. Anytime that happens, that someone decides to become more inclusive in their thinking, I see that as a good thing.

Yes. Well said as always.

[millennium]

One thing about the Lauer interview I meant to comment on and forgot -- Jenner said she couldn't remember much about the day of Kim Howe's death or speak about the case because it was pending litigation.  And yet, despite this supposed amnesia/gag order, she managed to publicly testify that she wasn't speeding, and that she was doing 46 in a 50 mph zone (apparently her forgetfulness does not apply to exculpatory information).   It's like she was trying to pollute the potential jury pool.   But worse, she wasn't exactly truthful.   She wasn't technically speeding, but the police have clearly stated that she was traveling too fast for the conditions.  This violates what is called California's Basic Speed Law:

 

 

 

V C Section 22350 Basic Speed Law
Basic Speed Law

22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

 

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d11/c7/a1/22350

 

 

Sounds like speeding to me.

Edited September 16, 2015 by millennium

[millennium]

Jenner is now seeking special treatment when it comes to legally changing her name and gender.

 

http://www.tmz.com/2015/09/16/caitlyn-jenner-gender-name-change-petition-court-signature/

 

She wants the medical portion of the petition sealed (apparently medical records belonging to the average transgender person are not sealed) because of unspecified "threats of physical harm" that she claims to have received.

 

I have no quarrel with the nature of the request, but if her medical records are sealed, then so should be the records of every transgender person, not just celebrities with huge bank accounts and expensive lawyers.   If that can't be done, then I think Jenner should be treated like anyone else.  

 

But what about the threats of physical harm?   Surely that must have some bearing on the decision?  

 

Newsflash: The average transgender person faces the threat of physical harm every time they leave the house.   And they enjoy no special considerations from anyone.

 

In an Entertainment Tonight article, it is stated that Jenner is also seeking a private hearing:

 

She has also filed a motion to seal portions of the petition in order to protect her privacy, as well as a request for a private hearing. In the filing, Jenner's lawyer, John Krieger, explained that the "Petitioner is transgender, making her privacy and safety of particular concern."

 

"California lawmakers recently acknowledged the heightened need for protecting the change," Krieger continued. "The public nature of the name and gender change process exposes transgender individuals to potential discrimination, harassment or even violence because of being transgender."

 

http://www.etonline.com/news/172024_caitlyn_jenner_files_petition_to_legally_change_her_name_gender/

 

 

Again, no argument with the concern.   But special privileges can't only be granted to people who believe they deserve -- and can afford the legal means to obtain -- special treatment.

[GaT]

Again, no argument with the concern.   But special privileges can't only be granted to people who believe they deserve -- and can afford the legal means to obtain -- special treatment.

Do you have some proof that if a non famous person was in the same position & made the same requests that they wouldn't get the same treatment? How many transgender people who have requested that their medical records be sealed were turned down?

[millennium]

Not sure.   But it's a good question.   Let me know what you find out.

[Muffyn]

I checked with a friend who is an attorney in California.  She is a transgender woman (and a really kick ass person to have in your corner).  As part of the legal change of name and gender, a form must be submitted that is signed by a doctor.  This form is boilerplate.  The doctor attests that in their opinion the change is "appropriate".  The form does not include nor does the court require any documentation of the procedures that the person has undergone.  So, by requesting that medical information not be released, all that would be held back is the doctor's name.  The article linked above implies that much more information is required for the change.  This is, per my friend who has been through this process personally and filed the petition for many other people, incorrect.  

 

As to what many in the transgender community would like (again, passing on information from my friend) is for the records of the gender and name change process be sealed for all persons.  This is for safety reasons.  As Millennium stated:

 

The average transgender person faces the threat of physical harm every time they leave the house.   And they enjoy no special considerations from anyone.

 

Also, she would like the requirement to have a doctor act as a gatekeeper removed, thereby allowing adults to make their own decisions without needing a doctor's approval.  

[millennium]

South Park dares to suggest Caitlyn Jenner "isn't a hero" and is "most likely not a very good person."

 

Stuff we've been talking about here for awhile now.

 

South Park Takes on PC Police, Caitlyn Jenner’s “Heroism” in Season Premiere
By J. Bryan Lowder

 

The new season of South Park, Trey Parker and Matt Stone’s long-running, take-no-prisoners animated series, began last night, and the episode lived up to the show’s reputation for astonishing timeliness. Promotional coverage of the premiere, “Stunning and Brave,” promised riffs on Caitlyn Jenner and besmirched quarterback Tom Brady—riffs that were indeed forthcoming—but the episode also had a larger target: an overzealous PC culture that think pieces now regularly warn is ruining the world, online or otherwise. And, impressively for a show that depends on transgressive humor for much of its success, South Park actually did a nuanced, precise, and above all funny job in its critique of the dreaded PC police.

 

At the beginning of the episode, the students of South Park Elementary School are informed that a new principal has taken over—known only as “PC Principal.” The buff, physically intense man quickly takes charge, recounting a litany of offensive events in the school’s past (including aspects of last season’s gender-neutral bathroom episode) and gleefully dispensing detentions for social justice infractions. After some initial bristling, everyone in town steps into line, mostly keeping silent for fear of saying something “problematic”—everyone except for Kyle and the always unreconstructed Cartman. While Cartman’s grappling with the sensitivity re-education provides much of the episode’s humor—an attempt at resistance involving Butters’ underwear is particularly hilarious—it’s Kyle’s storyline that offers a more incisive critique. In the eyes of PC Principal, his sin is disagreeing with the notion that Caitlyn Jenner is a “hero” and refusing to join the town mantra that she is clearly “stunning and brave.” At one point, Kyle says confidently: “I am not going to apologize for saying Caitlyn Jenner isn’t a hero. In fact, personally, I think she’s most likely not a very good person.”

 

This is unacceptable to PC Principal and his group of PC bros, who, once they find one another, quickly organize themselves into a frat-like organization, complete with all-night raves against marginalization and initiations that send pledges out to complete sneak attacks on privilege. While Randy Marsh, Stan’s dad, finds a home in the PC frat’s consciousness-raising and copious booze, Kyle and Cartman must decide how to strike a balance between social sensitivity and free expression.The refreshing thing about this episode is that, to my mind at least, it picks the right elements of crazy PC culture to mock, while allowing that caring about the sensitivities of minority groups is itself a great thing. Particularly effective is the choice of portraying the PC guys as frat bros, highlighting the way that, especially online, social justice advocates can become just as cliquish and chest-thumping as a stereotype they presumably loathe. Presenting the bros as all white was even more incisive; if you work in the social justice world long enough, it’s difficult not to notice how individuals with the most privilege have a way of speaking above and for those marginalized groups they are supposedly trying to help. Whether this is an overcompensation for guilt or a weird way of finding belonging is up for debate, but regardless, the show put its finger on a real phenomenon. Unsurprisingly, the episode also rather bluntly points out that sometimes making politically incorrect jokes is the best way to highlight and challenge prejudice—something South Park knows a little about.

 

As for Jenner, her use as a PC test here comes at an interesting moment: As I’ve written recently, certain comments Jenner has made in the last few weeks have led many in the LGBTQ community to look askance at her politics. Indeed, as Kyle put it, it’s possible she may not be a “good person,” or at least not someone in whom the community should invest a great deal of faith. But this, of course, underlines an important fact: Being part of an oppressed minority does not automatically make one “good,” well-intentioned, or correct. And likewise, knowing the social justice script by heart does not necessarily mean you are making the world more just.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/09/17/south_park_takes_on_caitlyn_jenner_s_heroism_in_its_season_19_premiere.html

 

 

This piece describes part of the show:

 

South Park Elementary is introduced to a new character: PC Principal, a school administrator “sick and tired of how minority groups are marginalized in today’s society” — with the demeanor of a foul-mouthed frat brother.

“I’m here because this place is lost in a time warp!” the principal screams at students. “Like it or not, PC is back and it’s bigger than ever!”

 

The first target in PC Principal’s PC campaign: Kyle. He is called to the carpet for making a simple statement: “I don’t think Caitlyn Jenner is a hero.”

 

“This kind of transphobic and bigoted hate speech isn’t going to fly here, bro,” PC Principal says. “I thought we were all on board that Caitlyn Jenner is an amazing beautiful woman who had the exquisite bravery of a beautiful butterfly flying against the wind. And then this s— flies out of people’s mouths!”

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/17/south-park-dares-to-say-caitlyn-jenner-is-not-a-hero/

 

[Kromm]

Good for them. Often what they do is not just gross, but crass, but it doesn't mean they aren't capable of revealing the awkward truth occasionally. I've been referring to this as "The Empress Has No Clothes" for a while, but the big difference is that there's actually slowly been pushback happening. The whole idea that it's inherently sick, a kind of societal disease, to steamroll over criticism of individual people for fear it will damage some larger "cause", is becoming apparent. It's ultimately BAD for those causes to do so, because then you stop acting like they're real people and instead like they're just those labels. Caitlyn Jenner can be a piece of garbage, a scumbag poseur and exploitative jerk, without it inherently meaning that it says anything about the rest of the Transgender community. And using excuses like "it's just her journey" is bullshit. Sure it's her journey, but that doesn't mean the world has to hear about it, or worse yet celebrate it. That's the disconnect.

[Artsda]

Why Caitlyn Jenner May Be Bad For The Trans Community

http://www.bustle.com/articles/111146-why-caitlyn-jenner-may-be-bad-for-the-trans-community

[millennium]

I don't understand why writers of articles like the one above feel compelled to start off by saying "she seems like a good human being and a truly kind person" (or something like that) before enumerating all the ways she's harming other transgender people.

 

I don't get good human or kind person at all from Jenner.   It's almost like the writers fear the meatier part of their criticism will be dismissed if they don't dole out the obligatory praise first.

 

Meanwhile, the "Caitlyn Jenner Tour" is about to begin as she embarks on a series of speaking engagements around the country, with some venues charging upwards of $500 for good seats, and about $85 for the nosebleeds.

 

http://uniquelives.com/caitlyn-jenner

 

One promo identifies her as "the de facto figurehead of the trans movement."   But none of the advertisements/announcements I have seen say anything about the money going to help charities or transgender organizations, etc.   I may be wrong, but it looks like it's all going straight into the de facto figurehead's pocketbook.

Edited September 19, 2015 by millennium

[Kromm]

I don't understand why writers of articles like the one above feel compelled to start off by saying "she seems like a good human being and a truly kind person" (or something like that) before enumerating all the ways she's harming other transgender people.

Again, it's this fear of actually saying something bad about her and coming off like some kind of traitor (or if the writer isn't transperson, as a "hater"). So even the criticisms have to be couched, like it's not her fault (which frankly it largely is).

[millennium]

Caitlyn Jenner and Queen Elizabeth compete for the best grandparent award

 

I don't make this stuff up.   The world has lost its mind.

 

http://www.channel24.co.za/Gossip/News/Caitlyn-Jenner-and-Queen-Elizabeth-compete-for-the-best-grandparent-award-20150917

[Artsda]

Buzzfeed is reporting show's been renewed.

 http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/i-am-cait-has-been-renewed-for-a-second-season#.scmjPXwXx

Edited September 21, 2015 by Artsda

[Kromm]

Buzzfeed is reporting show's been renewed.

 http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateaurthur/i-am-cait-has-been-renewed-for-a-second-season#.scmjPXwXx

That's a crying shame.

 

Maybe the transgender community will perhaps not only avoid participating next season, maybe they'll even protest this travesty. 

 

Okay, not likely. But far more likely that it would have seemed this summer.

[millennium]

It would seem to defy good business sense.

 

I Am Cait finished with miserable ratings.   Jenner is out of the spotlight now and interest in her will probably fade even more as winter and the holidays come on.    Her commercial liability is that she's a one-trick pony.   Being transgender is her only claim to fame anymore, which is why she's milking it for whatever its worth regardless that her pursuit of glory and fortune may be to the detriment of a whole segment of people.  

 

It's not like she's a singer, actor or other performer who has additional talents or work product to keep the public coming back for more.   If truth be told, she's a dull and not especially likeable rich person who also happens to be widely thought responsible for killing a woman with her car while driving inattentively.

 

She has also alienated a large portion of the very people who might have had a stake in watching the show -- other transgender people.   I myself have never watched a single episode, instead gleaning information from news reports on the web.  

 

It's my guess that the majority of the roughly 1 million who watched the show every Sunday night are diehard Kardashians fans, people who like reality-show sideshows, and hate-watchers.    The only dependable viewer loyalty may come from the Kardashian crowd, and even then the interest in Jenner is by association, and thus secondary.

 

So why would E renew?  I know the media likes to make a fuss over the show's "social value" because it draws attention to the transgender phenomenon (though to me, that's kind of like saying a show about jelly donuts is good because it gets people thinking about nutrition).

 

But the E Network doesn't seem all that committed to social value, does it?

 

Is it possible the show is getting an obligatory renewal due to some agreement or ultimatum connected to KUWTK?   Like Jenner will refuse to appear on KUWTK if her show doesn't get another season?

 

A second season won't be easy.  Transgender is all she has to sell, and she's already done it to death.   She'll have to keep upping the ante if she hopes to remain relevant.   What next?  Another round of surgery to get tongues wagging and people tuning in?  Dating a man for no other reason than to draw in viewers?   Maybe she can put it out there that she's having a crisis of doubt about what she's done, furnishing a new "redemptive" story arc of self-acceptance, complete with another pretentious, expensive celebration at the end.

Edited September 21, 2015 by millennium

[Cosmic Muffin]

I am very surprised that this show has been renewed. I wonder if season two will be Caitlyn bravely taking on the haters? I don't really see what else they can do; will she win more awards she paid for? Take more road trips? Show how out of touch she is? I wonder if she is doing this to try and keep sympathy up until the car accident trial is over.

[millennium]

I am very surprised that this show has been renewed. I wonder if season two will be Caitlyn bravely taking on the haters? I don't really see what else they can do; will she win more awards she paid for? Take more road trips? Show how out of touch she is? I wonder if she is doing this to try and keep sympathy up until the car accident trial is over.

 

You could ask her yourself on her magical mystery tour.   At least one of the venues offers a meet-and-greet session and photo with her wondrousness for only $500.

[ClareWalks]

You could ask her yourself on her magical mystery tour.   At least one of the venues offers a meet-and-greet session and photo with her wondrousness for only $500.

 

Yikes. That is steep. If I wanted a photo of myself next to a wax figure I could go to Madame Tussauds. ;-)

[HumblePi]

If the executives at E! network really want to make a difference, they'd turn this series into a Psychology class for beginners. Lesson #1 an extensive study of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

[Cosmic Muffin]

Heh, they'd have to pay me $500 to meet Cait.

[millennium]

The price virtually guarantees that she won't have to worry about other transgender people showing up and confronting her.

[Kromm]

You could ask her yourself on her magical mystery tour.   At least one of the venues offers a meet-and-greet session and photo with her wondrousness for only $500.

 

Yikes. That is steep. If I wanted a photo of myself next to a wax figure I could go to Madame Tussauds. ;-)

 

The price virtually guarantees that she won't have to worry about other transgender people showing up and confronting her.

In her mind I bet she thinks this is cheap.

 

Not just because her ego demands she's worth more, but because I'm sure she's done that $5000 per plate charity dinner thing more than a few times back when she was simply a washed up Olympian. So $500 for "the little people"?  Easy peasy!

[millennium]

Ironically, the following story, which to me sounded entirely plausible, and in keeping with what I know about the after-effects of facial feminization surgery, has been vehemently denied by Jenner "insiders," according to "GossipCop."

 

Caitlyn Jenner In ‘Complete Agony’ After Major Surgery Disaster

 

RadarOnline.com can exclusively reveal that Caitlyn Jenner is in “complete agony” due to the extensive list of surgeries she’s undergone in the past year to transform from male to female.

 

“Caitlyn’s in constant pain since she had all those operations,” an insider tells Radar. “She’s happy with how her transformation’s going, but she’s finding the surgery hell on her body.”

 

Jenner is “often complaining of pain” around her face and ears from the facelift, but her doctors say she has to be patient as it takes a while to recover from such major procedures, notes the insider.

 

And while the 65-year-old reality star insists to those close to her that she has no regrets, “She’s currently taking painkillers until the work on her face and body settles in,” reveals the insider.

 

As Radar reported, Jenner spent millions to transform into a woman. Her surgeries included everything from a facelift and neck sculpting to a brow lift and shaving.

 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/caitlyn-jenner-plastic-surgery-problems/

 

Facial feminization surgery is no cake walk.   It's a facelift on steroids.   In addition a full facelift, nose job, cheek and chin implants, and shaving of the jawbone, it frequently also involves major surgery to reduce the male brow ridge, or "bossing."   I don't know if Jenner's doctors went this route, but some surgeons will actually cut and extract the brow ridge out of the skull, shave it down, then set it back into place to heal.   It's multiple surgeries all performed one after another.    So radical that In the immediate days after the surgery, patients don't even appear human --and if you think I'm kidding, do some googling.   It's a horror show.   Features swell to twice their normal size, the skin turns black and blue and bloody.  Shunts are placed in the head and attached to receptacles hung like macabre earrings from each ear to catch excess blood and fluid.  

 

I have read patients' blogs and websites who have undergone the surgery.  They frequently complain of multiple symptoms in the aftermath of surgery, lasting for a year or longer.   These include pain, constant nosebleeds, migraine headaches, numbness in parts of the face and ears, loss of senses (taste, smell) and so on.   They are glad to have had the procedure but concede that the post-surgical symptoms can be challenging.

 

When I read that Jenner was experiencing chronic pain from the surgery, it sounded like the truth.   I thought it beneficial that such information becomes more widely known because people who might see Jenner's results and wish they could have surgery themselves should have a realistic idea of what's involved with this type of radical operation.   It's not a trip to the spa where you check in and re-emerge on the cover of Vanity Fair. 

 

But then this article appeared online:

 

Caitlyn Jenner NOT In Pain Still From Cosmetic Surgeries For Transition, Despite Report

 

Caitlyn Jenner is not still in “pain” from the cosmetic surgeries she underwent for her transition from male to female, despite a new webloid report. Gossip Cop can exclusively correct this. We’re told it’s entirely untrue.

 

According to RadarOnline, which has been wrong a LOT about Jenner, the former Olympian is in “complete agony” from the operations she’s had on her face as she went from male to female. A so-called “insider” tells the webloid, “Caitlyn’s in constant pain” from the various procedures, and has been “finding the surgery hell on her body.” The supposed “insider” adds that Jenner can often be heard “complaining of pain” from ear-to-ear because of her facelift. Curiously, the blog notes that Jenner is taking “painkillers,” which would contradict the rest of its claims about her feeling “pain” and “agony” all the time ...

 

http://www.gossipcop.com/caitlyn-jenner-pain-transition-cosmetic-surgery-operations/

 

 

Honestly, I don't know which, or either, of the two sources are to be believed.   But as I said, lingering pain seems 100% par for the course given the circumstances.   If a denial did come from Jenner's camp, might it be due to the suggestion that she's on painkillers?   That has a negative connotation these days. 

[Kromm]

How many people have pointed out that she's just too old for many of these surgeries? I can well believe it was painful, and the recovery bad. 

[millennium]

I hadn't even considered her age as a factor.   But you're right.

Edited September 22, 2015 by millennium

[Cosmic Muffin]

Anything involving bones (shaving the jaw or brow) has got to be really painful, and also is going to take a loooong time to heal. Bones heal slower than skin or other tissue, no matter who someone is.

 

I'm guessing the denial has to do with the negativity around painkillers, even if used appropriately. If not that, some macho athletic hangover where she thinks she can have all this work, at her age and then just "walk it off". I wonder if she knew going in about typical recovery? I'd guess not, based on her lack of knowledge around everything else.

[freeradical]

If the executives at E! network really want to make a difference, they'd turn this series into a Psychology class for beginners. Lesson #1 an extensive study of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I'm surprised it was renewed. I just racked my brain trying to come up with something, anything that would justify a second season. I like Cait but enough already. Maybe a spinoff, with a different title, different transgender people and a more forward thinking message. Cait could do the "Kanye pop in" for two minutes every third episode to keep the Cait people interested or something. Many people feel that the first season was a joke at best and a second season will validate that in my opinion.

Edit to add.....And on a different freaking network!!!

Edited September 23, 2015 by freeradical

[CousinAmy]

I wonder if some of her muddled thinking - the strange "acceptance speech of gay marriage on Ellen - is due to the effects of painkillers? Her obliviousness to other people's feelings; her poor judgment in including scenes that make her look awful; could that be why?

I admit that at my age I fear minor surgery that involves soft tissue - like my cataract surgery earlier this year - because of the pain, although that is pretty well-managed these days but the thought of voluntarily shaving my bones? Oh, hell no!

I think next season will be more hijinks with Candis, a fling with George Hamilton, who isn't averse to doing reality shows, and of course lots and lots of Kardashians.

[HumblePi]

I'm surprised it was renewed. I just racked my brain trying to come up with something, anything that would justify a second season. I like Cait but enough already. Maybe a spinoff, with a different title, different transgender people and a more forward thinking message. Cait could do the "Kanye pop in" for two minutes every third episode to keep the Cait people interested or something. Many people feel that the first season was a joke at best and a second season will validate that in my opinion.

Edit to add.....And on a different freaking network!!!

Perhaps Bravo would like some email suggestions for future episodes? Maybe one in which Caitlyn struggles over dying her hair blonde like Candis, or what to wear horseback riding in the hills of Malibu. (skirt, jeans, culottes, or shorts). Maybe we can request to have one of her upcoming plastic surgeries filmed. I can actually come up with more ideas about how I can utilize plain white bread than I can come up with interesting things that Caitlyn could do to get viewers back. Sadly, I think Caitlyn is one 'Bravoebrity' that people will find has no substance.

Edited September 24, 2015 by HumblePi

[millennium]

Perhaps Bravo would like some email suggestions for future episodes? Maybe one in which Caitlyn struggles over dying her hair blonde like Candis, or what to wear horseback riding in the hills of Malibu. (skirt, jeans, culottes, or shorts). Maybe we can request to have one of her upcoming plastic surgeries filmed. I can actually come up with more ideas about how to utilized plain white bread than I can come up with interesting things that Caitlyn could do to get viewers back. Sadly, I think Caitlyn is one 'Bravoebrity' that people will find has no substance.

 

Force her to spend a full season with women who aren't transgender.

[iwasish]

Force her to spend a full season with women who aren't transgender.

I can hear the promo now: 

 

This season on "I am Cait" She moves next door to and tries to "Keep Up with the Kardashians"

[millennium]

No, I meant everyday, ordinary women.   She declares herself a woman, yet so far the only women she has shown any empathy for, or kinship with, are transgender women.

 

She's insensitive to her own mother.

 

She criticizes her step-daughters for not being happy enough for her.

 

She blames her ex-wife for the failure of her marriage.

 

She treats her assistant Rhonda like shit. 

 

My guess is, she wouldn't be able to function in the company of non-transgender women.   Married women, single women, career women, stay at home moms.   She has no natural empathy for them and no interest in the things that are important to them. 

 

And I think it all goes back to her own superficial notions of what defines a woman.

[millennium]

South Park touched upon Caitlyn Jenner again last night

http://dailycaller.com/2015/09/24/south-park-lampoons-caitlyn-jenner-video/

 

Brutal, and so richly deserved.

 

They even nailed the lazy eye.  But the repeated scenes of Jenner mowing down pedestrians with her car ... wow.

 

In the Matt Lauer interview on the sunny golf course, it seemed so unjust when Jenner claimed that being sentenced to a man's prison "would be the worst case scenario."

 

The phrase suggests a belief that she deserves better treatment from the system -- even expects better treatment from the system.

 

But it seemed all the more reprehensible to me because all I could think was that being dead is "the worst case scenario."  Kim Howe, Jenner's victim, IS dead.  Jenner, meanwhile, is still drinking wine, hitting the links and collecting more than $500 a head for speaking engagements.

 

Something really wrong with that picture.

Edited September 25, 2015 by millennium

[nexxie]

If the executives at E! network really want to make a difference, they'd turn this series into a Psychology class for beginners. Lesson #1 an extensive study of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

If all their NPD stars were suddenly understood, E! would be out of business - once people see narcissists for what they are, they can't unsee it.

[millennium]

All of Caitlyn's hard work pays off:

 

http://www.tmz.com/2015/09/23/caitlyn-jenner-not-prosecuted-manslaughter-criminal-fatal-car-crash-d-a/

[freeradical]

I love, love, LOVE me some South Park! Never missed an episode since the beginning. My husband and I were betting all the political and socially relevant topics they would take on this year. (they have a lot to work with) I called Caitlyn first so I win!

*My screen name should have been chrisscrocker for this forum! Crying and screaming "Leave Caitlyn Alone!"

Watching the new season of South Park was like going to the Church of Snark And Roast! They are equal opportunity destroyers and so should we all be.

Ramen.

Edited September 25, 2015 by freeradical

[freeradical]

http://www.people.com/article/caitlyn-jenner-not-charged-car-accident

 

Sad that this was a fatality. Shit Happens as the saying goes. Glad Cait won't go to jail. :-)    Civil will be a different story but that's just money.

Edited September 30, 2015 by freeradical

[millennium]

Any clue what fake honor or reward she purchases next?  I would have joked "a knighthood", but those aren't gender neutral. What do they call the female version again?  A Damehood?  Yuck. Dame Caitlyn. I bet you can buy one from some small European Principality or something, with a token royal with no other real power than to hand out stuff like that and wave in parades or something.

 

 

When will this end?   Are there no women more inspirational than this insufferable narcissist?

 

REPORT: Caitlyn Jenner to Be Named Glamour's Woman of the Year!

 

http://www.lifeandstylemag.com/posts/caitlyn-jenner-to-be-named-glamour-s-woman-of-the-year-report-73288

 

I hope they lose subscriptions.

[Kromm]

I wonder if there's an investigative reporter with the balls to try and find out if this is another "bought" honor (note it doesn't have to be with money--I mean that it would just be another deal made, initiated by Jenner's people having feelers out constantly for stuff like this). 

[millennium]

I wonder if there's an investigative reporter with the balls to try and find out if this is another "bought" honor (note it doesn't have to be with money--I mean that it would just be another deal made, initiated by Jenner's people having feelers out constantly for stuff like this). 

 

Just a guess, but I suspect all these deals were put in place last spring, right after the Diane Sawyer/Vanity Fair double-shot, when interest was at its highest.    Presumably Glamour made the decision hoping that an issue with Jenner as "Woman of the Year" (has she been a woman for even a year?) would guarantee big returns at the newsstand, plus they could charge advertisers premium rates, etc.    Of course we can't prove that Jenners' representatives sold Glamour on the idea, but the situation does beg comparisons to the Espy and we know that one had a bad smell.

 

I just can't imagine a business decision like this -- and that's what it is, a business decision -- being made in the wake of the dismal ratings of I Am Cait.    Those ratings strongly suggest that the world has moved on.

Edited October 9, 2015 by millennium

[Kromm]

Get ready for a media firestorm...

 

(Feminist Icon) Germaine Greer says transgender women like Caitlyn Jenner are not women

[Cosmic Muffin]

Confusing title (which I realize you just copied, Kromm). I clicked to see if GG regards trans women as women in general, but makes an exception for Caitlyn, in which case I was interested in what she had to say, or if she doesn't regard trans women as women in general. The latter is the case, so I stopped reading. Thanks for linking, though.

[Kromm]

I'd argue it's about Caitlyn, but not exclusively. The reason I'd argue that is even though the overall comment (that they "aren't women") is being made by Greer about all Transgender women, the real sticking point for Greer, a special point of outrage for her I mean, is the potential idea of Jenner specifically (so this part IS about Jenner) possibly being named Glamour's Woman of the Year.  Greer is outraged by the idea this might happen and pegs it as misogony.... arguing:

 

 

"I think it's misogynist," she claimed. "I think misogyny plays a really big part in all of this - that a man who goes to all of these lengths to be a woman will be a better woman than someone who is just born a woman."

So this is why I think the shit is about to hit the fan (and in fact looking around the net clearly HAS). It's going to get ugly, the debate over this. The outrage which will be spewed by people in both communities.  A lot of name calling, arguments, counter-arguments, etc. 

 

So again... it's both an issue beyond Caitlyn Jenner, and yet also one where she served as the linchpin on the grenade. 

 

Greer even gets into it about the subject of pronouns.

 

 

Greer - who explained that she would use female speech forms for someone who wished to be known as female "as a courtesy"

That description, "as a courtesy" is gonna anger a lot of people arguably just as much (or maybe even more) than Greer simply saying she wouldn't do it. When people do things grudgingly, and make it obvious it's grudgingly...

[Artsda]

They're filming season 2.

 

Caitlyn Jenner Celebrates Her 'First' Birthday with Candis Cayne in L.A.

http://www.people.com/article/caitlyn-jenner-first-birthday-transgender-launch-party