Fix The Show: American Ninja Fixer!

[Kromm]

After seeing the KC finals this year, and how the weather made it hard for EVERYONE to run it, and (even worse) also thinking about how in previous seasons we've even had irregular weather make the course unequal for people running in the same city (wind or rain part of the day but not in another part), the one big change I think they should consider is moving the course to a few central locations (yes, that means less cities) and holding it inside.

 

The UK show, for example, held theirs inside and it worked fine.  Here's a run from someone (a look--a woman finisher... in their FIRST season) and you can see how the obstacles all fit inside a fairly typical hanger-type space.

 

 

Maybe you lose a bit of the atmosphere this way, but it's SO much fairer. 

 

Agree? Disagree?  And what other "fixes" should the show consider?

Edited July 25, 2015 by Kromm

[mlp]

I agree, Kromm.  I barely noticed that the UK course was indoors.  I agree that the course should present an equal opportunity to each competitor and it can't do that if the weather changes.  I've wondered what they'd do if there was a huge electrical storm in the vicinity or a tornado warning.  They'd have to hold up production for safety reasons so I'd think an indoor venue would be an advantage to the producers.  I suppose finding a mostly vacant structure large enough to hold a finals course might be difficult.

[Adira]

I'd love to see it indoors!  Though I'm not sure they'd be able to do the Vegas finals indoors?  Though Vegas is usually pretty dry, so I think that'd be okay.

[Way Wes Jr]

There are huge, underutilized, convention spaces in most major metropolises.  You might not be able to create the linear track the city qualifiers and finals currently use, but (functionally,) a zig zag or "C" shape wouldn't be any different for the competitors.  (And it's not as if fans at the start of the course have a great view of the finish anyhow.)

[Kromm]

There are huge, underutilized, convention spaces in most major metropolises.  You might not be able to create the linear track the city qualifiers and finals currently use, but (functionally,) a zig zag or "C" shape wouldn't be any different for the competitors.  (And it's not as if fans at the start of the course have a great view of the finish anyhow.)

Indoor and guaranteed out of the weather allows greater use of video screens for the live fans in the stands to watch (and see what's not in their direct line of sight). Outdoors in the rain and big winds, they can't have that many, because they'd have to be weatherproofed (which some are, but they're not cheap).

[SophiaD]

What about using a school's gym or an indoor stadium?  That would be a nice little revenue boost for a school, community college or university. 

 

I also like their announcement team better - Matt and Akbar just seem to LOVE SHOUTING!

[Kromm]

I also like their announcement team better - Matt and Akbar just seem to LOVE SHOUTING!

I'm not so sold on the UK commentary team. They're not bad in that clip, but they were dreadful in many other places during the UK series.

BTW: I know the UK women had to have learned from watching our show, and I know also that the UK course kind of resembles the US courses from a few seasons ago, before they started inflating the difficulty of the city courses, but really it's amazing how many women not only finished in a first season, but also had damn good times.

Here's another absolute beast of a UK female contestant, Lillian Hunt. Admittedly she's REALLY tall (unlike Katie McDonald from the other clip upthread) but still... watch her totally dismantle this course... Even the rings seem ludicrously easy for her:

EDIT - That said... it's not hard in fact to see where they made this particular variant of the course easier. The big thing they have to put their arms around for the Log Grip is FAR thinner than the US version (thus easier to get your arms around) and only has one drop (I think the US one only had one drop at one point too). The Jump Hang is off a SWING and not off a Mini-Trampoline. The Rings are still damn hard, but maybe are somewhat closer together.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Kromm

[Fukui San]

I'm meh on these suggestions. Putting it indoors makes it uncomfortably American Gladiators-y to me.  Having it outdoors in cityscapes is actually an improvement over the Japanese version, which is competed in a dusty field in the middle of nowhere.  It brings to mind side scroller video games, which makes it seem like a bigger, grander event. I wish they wouldn't only film at night though.  It makes me feel that competitors can't be at their best if they're running at 1am or something. 

 

The one aspect of the Japanese version I'm finding I'm missing is this: Every competitor has a number pinned on his or her clothes, like track and field runners, their order number in the competition. The higher the number, the farther you're expected to go. The #100 is a place of honor and pressure. Having the numbers gives the competition an overall shape. For one, it forces the editors to display the competitors in the order that they run (even though they'll undoubtedly still skip runs). You see dry spells and runs.  Momentum and despair.  There's also this sequence you see all the time in the Japanese version where a competitor preparing for a run reacts to the previous competitor succeeding or, more likely, failing. It's such a humanizing moment and it tells the story of the entire group of people trying to will each other to the end. In this case I'm certain the editors are just mixing the runs as they please. 

[nate263]

Either get rid of the announcers or have the current announcers say stuff that isn't just redundant. It's like I'm being forced to listen to a play by play for the blind.

 

"Looks like so-and-so is struggling here." Yes, I can see that. 

 

"Brian approaching the Crazy Cliffhanger" Once again, I can see that.

 

"Sandra gearing up for the Warped Wall." Okay, where's the mute button?

 

They'll also repeat stuff we just heard in the obligatory, overlong segment about the contestant. In the last episode, Akbar was telling us the contestant was a 9 time wrestling champion literally within 2 minutes of hearing it from the contestant's mouth. Either cut most of the segments and let the announcers tell us relevant facts to give them something to say (my preference) or figure out some other way for the announcers to add value to the show.

 

I wish they could have found freerunners/parkour experts for the job because I think they would have the relevant knowledge to be interesting. It'd be especially cool if the announcers could get a few runs on the course before the show started so they could give their experience.

 

Oh and more and better statistics would help fill dead air too. Maybe even incorporate stats from the Japanese show concerning how many people tend to fail on a certain obstacle, how hard this course is relative to other courses in the past etc.

Edited July 30, 2015 by nate263

[blueray]

I hate when the announcers say something that is totally irrelevant. This season I think it was they kept talking about how the one guy  (I think he was a walk on) had Autism, which was important for his backstory but not relevant while he is doing the course. Or when they focus on their favorites, doesn't matter where they are they will find away to mention them.

 

I hate that one woman (Kristina I think is her name) the one that interviews the contestants afterwards. She is seriously a mean person, she is always asking "so how did it feel to fall and fail?". And if they do well she is like "oh I know that you want to celebrate with your family but I'm going to stop you and ask dumb questions to ruin your moment. I may even interrupt you celebrating with your significant other." That seriously happened once. I have a tendency to mute her.

Edited August 5, 2015 by blueray

[Kromm]

They never hire anyone good for those sideline candid interviews (here, or to be frank, on any "sports show"). It's bound to be good exposure for people to be that person, but I wonder if it's kind of soul crushing to fake enthusiasm like that and ask the same lame insincere questions over and over again.

[Adira]

They never hire anyone good for those sideline candid interviews (here, or to be frank, on any "sports show"). It's bound to be good exposure for people to be that person, but I wonder if it's kind of soul crushing to fake enthusiasm like that and ask the same lame insincere questions over and over again.

 

I forget who it was, but their original sideline interviewer was good.  She was a G4 girl and I always enjoyed watching.  Was so bummed when she was replaced.

[nate263]

I forget who it was, but their original sideline interviewer was good.  She was a G4 girl and I always enjoyed watching.  Was so bummed when she was replaced.

Alison Haislip. She was great. I think she's on the reboot of Battle Bots now.

 

I actually like the current sideline lady way better than Jenn Brown, the one from last year. She was the worst. I remember there was a guy who was straight up balling and she tried to start a question with "Now I know you said you were doing this to make your kids proud..." and he let out a little yelp and crouched down so he wouldn't have to talk to her anymore. The current sideline lady at least makes a connection with some of the people and is way less of a robot than Jenn Brown was. I think it's just an awkward job to interview them right after they've failed and/or succeeded but are out of breath. Maybe one of the improvements could be to delay the interview till they've recovered a little more.

[DancingD]

I can't stand the yelling announcer. Have to almost mute the TV to watch the show. It's so cheesy, seems like they're trying to create a fake wrestling atmosphere. And this show is so NOT that.

[methodwriter85]

I'm really sick of them giving backgrounds/sob stories to people who wipe out on the first or second obstacle. It's not a live show; there's no need for that.

[Way Wes Jr]

And maybe for me it's the order thing.  We may see contestants we like or thought were strong but unless you're watching them in the second hour, they're not going to finish.  That also removes the suspense. 

 

 

I'm meh on these suggestions. Putting it indoors makes it uncomfortably American Gladiators-y to me.  Having it outdoors in cityscapes is actually an improvement over the Japanese version, which is competed in a dusty field in the middle of nowhere.  It brings to mind side scroller video games, which makes it seem like a bigger, grander event. I wish they wouldn't only film at night though.  It makes me feel that competitors can't be at their best if they're running at 1am or something. 

 

The one aspect of the Japanese version I'm finding I'm missing is this: Every competitor has a number pinned on his or her clothes, like track and field runners, their order number in the competition. The higher the number, the farther you're expected to go. The #100 is a place of honor and pressure. Having the numbers gives the competition an overall shape. For one, it forces the editors to display the competitors in the order that they run (even though they'll undoubtedly still skip runs). You see dry spells and runs.  Momentum and despair.  There's also this sequence you see all the time in the Japanese version where a competitor preparing for a run reacts to the previous competitor succeeding or, more likely, failing. It's such a humanizing moment and it tells the story of the entire group of people trying to will each other to the end. In this case I'm certain the editors are just mixing the runs as they please. 

 

I really think ordered numbering would be an improvement.  The only thing I don't know is what that would do to the "ten days waiting in line" crowd.  Obviously, they'd be given lower numbers, (which would be very dramatic when some finish, followed by a bunch of experienced runners flaming out,) but I don't know what the process is for being accepted, and how the would affect the "seeding."

 

[Also, would the experienced crowd try to shop around for the city final that would give them the "best" number?]

[SophiaD]

I think the biggest change for this season is it's almost impossible for even seasoned veterans to finish a lot of these courses. Previously, the courses were really, really hard, but it wasn't out of the question for a lot of us who grew up doing sports or gymnastics to envision ourselves *maybe* being able to do *some* of the obstacles.  Not this year.  Watching premier athletes like Flip Rodriguez or Ryan Stratis flame out of the Invisible ladder is just boring and discouraging, at least to me.

 

Depending on upper-body strength so much also means that it's incredibly unlikely that any women will get through, unless they are forces of nature like Jessie Graf, which makes it all the more boring for me.  (That Comcast airs terrible, terrible sexist commercials during the show isn't helping, either, although that's not the show's fault).

 

I do like the color commentator this year - I'm blanking on her name.  I didn't, at first, but she's tactful and sensitive when she talks to people who have just fallen or whatever and not nearly as inane as the lady who commented last year.  Akbar and Matt are just annoying.  They yell too much, they state the obvious, and never stop talking.  Having a parkour expert or a climber as blueray suggested above, or a retired ninja doing some of the play-by-play would be WAY more interesting. 

 

The other thing that I think is uniquely terrible this year is the editing.  Too many back stories, so we don't get to see the full runs of competitors we might have grown attached to - such as Brian Arnold or Abel Gonzalez.  I also didn't care for the personal nature of some of the back stories, like the guy who dissed his mother on national TV for not supporting his ninja habit.  Yikes.

[Aliconehead]

What about instead of Invisible ladder or spider climb, they do a combo, spider climb to 15 feet, then transition into Invisible ladder to the top.  Gives the arms a little break, makes spider climb harder, and invisible ladder easier.  Plus there is the transition that could end up being challenging.  All in all they have to do something about the course so more people MAKE it to the last obstacle.  This year there was just not enough that had a chance to finish.

[Richness]

What's REALLY annoying me about the 2015 season besides the finals course difficulty, it's the interviews with ninjas BEFORE they run the course. If I don't want to see and hear the inane Q&A after their run (or their background story), I sure as hell don't want to hear from them before their run. I thought this annoyance early in the season was just due to them using Kasey as a ratings hook before she was knocked out rather quickly. But nope, this appears to be a recurring nightmare, and it occurred twice in the Military finals episode.

[slf]

My two biggest issues right now are how annoying the woman doing the interviews is and the reliance on upper body strength obstacles. Leahy asked really awkward questions, cringed away from several contestants, and had zero enthusiasm during many of the interviews. I'd like someone like Cat Deely, if you've ever seen So You Think You Can Dance; she's cheerful without being bubbly, is smart and witty, never says anything stupid, and is genuinely supportive of the dancers. She'd be a great addition to the show.

 

I've seen other obstacle courses and I don't recall any of them being so focused on upper body strength. Many of them were about leg strength, core strength, agility, reflexes, speed, etc. This show is all climb this, swing to that, swing from this, jump and grab that, monkey bars, flying monkey bars, hang from this, blah blah blah. This show needs more variety.

 

I thought the title of this thread was about when the show's been rigged and got excited for the drama.

Edited March 28, 2016 by slf

[mlp]

 

how annoying the woman doing the interviews is

 

I wish they'd keep Alex Curry who was on Team Ninja Warrior.  She seemed genuinely nice and enthusiastic.  I liked her much, much better than both of the blondes on the regular show.

Edited March 28, 2016 by mlp

[Kromm]

The odd thing is that the Fast Fast Speed Speed thing almost ruined the main show, but was actually really good on Team Ninja Warrior. It's an odd disparity that I think finally got clarified in my mind when I considered it a bit.

 

It worked on TNW because the contest there is also constructed to kill grandstanding. The speed has a specific purpose and they can't then even waste a second playing to the crowd. Also the speed is used almost as another obstacle, because you've got not only an end goal two people have to reach at the same time, but those crossing points on the course.

 

So they have to maintain this split--ANW needs to be about completion, and TNW about speed.

 

I wasn't totally in love with Alex Curry on TNW, but I just think they're just eternally trying to cast some kind of Erin Andrews-like sideline reporter into the role, when it's just not working. It's enough years into this thing now that I'd focus on finding a retired Ninja Warrior, albeit one who's screen tested to be able to speak well enough to do the job.

[Taeolas]

Awaking this thread since we're talking about improving the show in various threads.

As has been said many times, cut the number of bios, and add some variety to them. Don't be repeating the bio for the same contestant over and over. Everything is in the can long before the finale airs; the producers should be able to know "this guy goes long, give him a bio later on. This guy wiped out early, show his bio in the city course."

Another idea would be to avoid awarding the Pom Wonderful Run until AFTER all of the contestants have run (because we all know it isn't awarded until long after the course is in the can). Then show us highlights of the run. Maybe make a Pom Wipeout Run of the Night as well, to show the biggest/most impressive wipeout of the course too; since goodness knows, we love the wipeouts almost as much as we love someone doing an impressive run. Occasionally the same run might get the same awards.

The nice thing with the above idea too, is it automatically gives them a buffer at the end of the episode to hide how well/not well someone might do. Like in the finales; if they don't start Stage 3 until 10 minutes to go, you know no one is likely to make it to the very end. But if you automatically have a Pom recap padding at the end of the ep that can be as short or as long as you want, then that can hide how well the Stage 3 finalists are doing and keep suspense up for if they make it up Stage 4 or not. 

As for obstacles... More fan designed obstacles! They added a fresh amount of variety this time around, and certainly through an unexpected wingnut into the mix. 

 

It might be challenging, but I wonder if there might be some way to add a Water obstacle to the course. Since they use wetness to identify failures often that might not be possible. But imagine if there was a swimming component/obstacle, or even just an underwater lift obstacle (like on Spartan, without as much mud; I like that ANW is 'clean').

[jhlipton]

On 9/21/2017 at 11:39 AM, Taeolas said:

even just an underwater lift obstacle (like on Spartan, without as much mud; I like that ANW is 'clean').

There's no mud at the underwater lift obstacle on Spartan, so that would be "clean".

[Guest]

I don't know if I'd call that Spartan water clean.  I'm always afraid they're going to pin someone in that shallow water and not even realize.

[Taeolas]

It probably starts clean, but due to all the mud from the earlier challenges it looks dirtier.

 

Still, that seems to be the one aspect (Water) that ANW doesn't take advantage of. For safety sake they would probably have to do it in certain order (can't do a water obstacle before the wall for example)

[jhlipton]

On 9/27/2017 at 5:03 PM, Taeolas said:

Still, that seems to be the one aspect (Water) that ANW doesn't take advantage of. For safety sake they would probably have to do it in certain order (can't do a water obstacle before the wall for example)

They'd probably have to do the water obstacle last, because being wet doesn't help on any of the other parts of the course.

[Fukui San]

The Japanese version has a swimming obstacle called the Backstream which they put in the middle of the second stage a few years ago. It's in the video below around the 4:28 mark. It's a tank that you enter through a narrow opening, so you can't dive over it, then it churns water against you as you try to swim a small distance. This poor guy gets stopped by it.

After that was a conveyor belt obstacle, in which you had to crawl against a conveyor belt going the other way, followed by heavy wall lifts. So no grabbing onto things obstacles, though that was the type of obstacle you'd see there in years past. 

[Taeolas]

Basically an endless pool . I could see that showing up on ANW sometime, around Stage 1 or Stage 2 of the finals maybe. It would be a major surprise for everyone I'm sure when/if that was brought in.

I doubt we would see it until someone finishes Stage 4 again, since the introduction of a swimming element would be a major eliminator in the first year, and ANW is past due for another winner. 

[ClareWalks]

I may be in the minority here, but I see no reason whatsoever to have a swimming/water obstacle. This isn't a "how good are you in the water" competition. 

[halopub]

I could see how it would be good for chewing up time and tiring people out.

On the latest Sasuke competition, which aired earlier today:

Spoiler

Jessie Graff made quick work of Backstream, impressing the Japanese veterans with her speed and dolphin-like kick.

 

I like how Sasuke doesn't rely on trampolines as much for beginning obstacles. I'd rather it be the obstacle, than a bad jump on an unfamiliar tramp take competitors out. Clearly, the mini-tramps in the warm up area don't prepare everyone for the real thing.

Edited October 8, 2017 by halopub
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