Gender In the DC Universe

[CabotCove]

Maybe that's another part of the super hero gender gap, women don't get to keep secrets from the men in their lives? I'm not really being fair since I happen to have heard Berlanti and Kriesenberg both say how much they hate the secret keeping part of the story.  Most likely they just wanted to completely skip it with Supergirl.

 

 

I appreciate not having the secret Identity thing to characters the lead is closed to.  Well Jimmy already knew but they didn't really give a good reason why Winn had to know. He is a genius sure, who can help but why did she trust him so fast. I hope thats answered in upcoming episodes.

 

Anyway when I said I hope Supergirl will be different, I wasnt really talking about the secret identity thing but the part were female characters are not allowed to be angry, emotional or antagonistic about about any issue or to the men in their lives. Its a female led and dominated show, so yeah I kind of hope it wont have the same gender issues as male led shows.

Edited October 30, 2015 by WildcardC

[Actionmage]

Kara was good and angry and hurt when Alex was all ' you can't do that!' after Kara saved her sister's damn life. Kara also was a bit incensed and insulted about the moniker Supergirl. I think we are off to a reasonable start with Kara.

 

I think we will see Alex being a little more willing to butt heads with Henshaw of the DEO over Kara. Maybe not right away, but when she gets a feel of her actual worth to the department.

[gwhh]

Is super girl a virgin?

All male character superhero are non virgins now a days on tv. That a big difference.

[lion10]

Statistically, no way she's a virgin.  A girl who looks like Melissa Benoist at age 24 in a big city is highly unlikely to be a virgin.  I doubt they'll even mention it which would be the best way to do it.

[legaleagle53]

Statistically, no way she's a virgin.  A girl who looks like Melissa Benoist at age 24 in a big city is highly unlikely to be a virgin.  I doubt they'll even mention it which would be the best way to do it.

 

In any event, let's not forget that that part of Kara's anatomy is just as invulnerable as the rest of her is.  Any man who tried to breach "the final frontier" without taking the proper precautions would risk a fractured pelvis at the very least.  And I have always wondered whether Kara's invulnerability would allow her to get pregnant if she wanted to.

[MarkHB]

Technically, Barry and Cisco haven't had any on-screen couplings, and given both Barry's attraction to Iris (and didn't they establish that he had a very limited dating history pre-show) and Cisco's utter lack of smoothness when he approached Kendra Saunders, I'm not prepared to concede that they are definitely both non-virgins.  They may well be, but it's not a sure thing in my eyes.

 

So far as Kara goes, she's had 12 or more years to come up with a sane answer to "where were you born," and apparently hasn't done so, so there's the smoothness (or lack thereof) argument again.  I'll also mention the extra-canonical "The Dark Knight Strikes Again" by Frank Miller, in which Superman's daughter Lara asks him about sex and he replies, "Never with Terrans; they're too fragile."  (Lara's mother in the story is Wonder Woman.)  On the flip side, Kara does mention the rush of kissing someone for the first time.

[BkWurm1]

I'll also mention the extra-canonical "The Dark Knight Strikes Again" by Frank Miller, in which Superman's daughter Lara asks him about sex and he replies, "Never with Terrans; they're too fragile."  (Lara's mother in the story is Wonder Woman.)  On the flip side, Kara does mention the rush of kissing someone for the first time.

 

That have anything to do with the old "Man of Steel, Woman of Tissue" argument?

 

I'd think in Kara's case, she could have an easier time with that kind of control than perhaps Supes (thus making it easier to deal with the fragile) but in her case would it be worth the bother?  How does a massage feel to her?  Is she ticklish?  If she wouldn't notice if a brick dropped on her foot, would she notice if ...well you get the idea.  

[legaleagle53]

She actually IS ticklish, but not the way you think.  In the comics, bullets tickle when they bounce off her and Kal.

 

Her physiology and the effect of her invulnerability in particular on her reproductive system, though, are what make sex problematic for her.  While she probably could control her strength so as not to accidentally kill a human male while in the throes of sexual passion, she can't turn her invulnerability on and off at will.  Even assuming that a human male could have sex with her the normal way without smashing his pelvis into dust and doing God-knows-what other damage to himself upon impact, she'd never be able to conceive (if she wanted to -- yes, I know that most people don't usually have sex with that specific goal in mind) because his sperm cells would never survive the trip to the point of conception inside her body -- and that's assuming that her invulnerability would let her ovulate or even menstruate in the first place.

 

Putting it a bit more delicately, the only way I think she could ever successfully have sex with a human male (and by "successfully," I do NOT mean "ending in conception only") would be under conditions where she had no powers or where her invulnerability was at least substantially weakened, such as in an environment which duplicated Krypton's environment or in the Kryptonite room. Of course, there might still be oral sex as an option, but as you noted, there is still the question of whether she'd be sensitive enough for it to work on her.

Edited November 7, 2015 by legaleagle53

[BkWurm1]

And of course all the established rules about that stuff can and frequently are tossed out the window to suit the story and medium.  On Lois & Clark they never had trouble having a very good time but I remember an episode where a shapeshifter was stabbing Clark with sharp objects but he just complemented him mom on a really great massage.  So there's a contradiction right there.   On Smallville, he didn't dare risk doing it the first seven years while he had powers for fear of hurting his partner, but suddenly in season nine, sure no problem.  On L&C they said humans and Kryptonians were biologically incompatible but on Smallville there was never an answer to the conception question.  Superman Returns said that Supes secretly knocked Lois up during the time he was depowered and even on Smallivlle, they said when he was powerless that the doctors found his physiology identical to normal humans so really who knows what rules the Supergirl people will employ. 

[Notwisconsin]

That have anything to do with the old "Man of Steel, Woman of Tissue" argument?

Man of Steel , Woman of KLEENEX by Larry Niven

a classic if there ever was one.

[Izeinwinter]

More interesting than the biology - because lets face it, she can almost certainly make the "Fun" part of sex work, and noone wants a kara-gets-pregnant storyline on this show anyway, - is the question of what her expectations and models for a relationship look like, She's been on earth long enough to know the dance as it is practiced in the USA, but... she was also old enough to have absorbed the facts of kryptonian life before she left. So what were those like? And does she want an earth style romance, or a kryptonian style one? It'd be hilarious if her comment about not being a lesbian in the pilot was shorthand for something like "Those are not the categories anyone gave a damn about where I was raised, nor do the cultural baggage associated with it make any sense to me. The great kryptonian orientations being : Rivalry - meaning, "Frenemies with benefits"  versus Alliance - meaning "Mutually supportive dialed up to 11"  and Monogamy V Poly.  

[NorthstarATL]

Technically, Barry and Cisco haven't had any on-screen couplings.

Now I am picturing them together! As for the sex discussion, Superman in both the Reeve movies and Smallville initially only had sex when de-powered, or, in Smallville, when Lana was equally powered. I don't know that they ever addressed Lois and Clark in the final season and whether some accomodations had been made.

  I suppose Kara could rent out the Red Sun Room when  she's ready? Or Brainiac 5 and his force field could be introduced. Or Comet the Super-Horse. All viable contenders.

[Trini]

On Lois & Clark, Clark was a virgin before Lois, but sex itself was not a problem between them. Only that they couldn't have a child together, biologically.

[marihunc]

On Lois & Clark, Clark was a virgin before Lois, but sex itself was not a problem between them. Only that they couldn't have a child together, biologically.

"A vi... very patient man" :DDD

[Chicago Redshirt]

Is super girl a virgin?

All male character superhero are non virgins now a days on tv. That a big difference.

 

I would say that most characters on TV, and most characters in superhero shows are not virgins, whether female or male. But there's no greater likelihood that a given character is a virgin based on gender.

 

Let's take a look at some:

 

Arrow:

Ollie, Diggle, Felicity, Ray, Roy, Thea and Sarah and Laurel are presumably or explicitly all non-virgins. 

 

Flash:

Iris and Caitlin are presumptively non-virgins. Barry and Cisco could be virgins -- we haven't seen one way or another.

 

Agents of SHIELD:

The only possible virgin among the main characters is Fitz. Daisy/Skye, Ward, May, Bobbi, Hunter, Coulson, and now Jemma have been shown either in the runup to sex, the aftermath of sex, or to have had longterm relationships in which it would be expected that sex would have been a part.

 

Agent Carter:

It's set in the 40s, so I think we can presume that all nonmarried characters are likely virgins.

 

Constantine:

John himself is a definite non-virgin. It's unclear what Zed is. Chas and Gabriel both have gotten it on.

 

iZombie:

Liv, Major, Peyton, Ravi and Blaine are all explicitly or presumptively non-virgins. There hasn't been enough background about Clive to rule out completely that he's a virgin, but there is no particular reason to think he is.

 

Smallville:

All the kids except Lex started off as virgins (what with them being 14), and during the course of the show's run, all of the kids (except Pete) explicitly lost their virginity. Clark in part remained a virgin because of Lana's unavailability and in part because something akin to the "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" thing referenced above. He had sex with Lana at least once when she had superpowers, and I think when he had lost his powers due to "Jor-El" punishment or some other contrivance. 

[CabotCove]

Male reviewers of TV shows on IMDB give lower scores to female-led shows

Quote

In the world of online reviews of popular TV shows, one thing is clear: Men do not love shows starring women. An analysis by the statistics website FiveThirtyEight of the ratings of popular shows on IMDb found that shows with more men in them rated better than shows with an equal split of men and women or shows that featured mainly women. The top 100 male-skewing shows had a ranking of 8.2 on IMDb, while the average rating for a female-skewing show was only 7.4. That imbalance, according to writer Walt Hickey, is largely because the male users on IMDb rate female-led shows lower than women rate them, and male users outnumber female users on IMDb. Female users of IMDb rated both types of shows about the same.

http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/05/19/male-reviewers-of-tv-shows-on-imdb-give-lower-scores-to-female-led-shows/

Men Are Sabotaging The Online Reviews Of TV Shows Aimed At Women

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/men-are-sabotaging-the-online-reviews-of-tv-shows-aimed-at-women/

Somewhat an old article but very relevant here. 

[j5cochran]

On 9/28/2016 at 0:29 PM, DCLeague said:

Male reviewers of TV shows on IMDB give lower scores to female-led shows

http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2016/05/19/male-reviewers-of-tv-shows-on-imdb-give-lower-scores-to-female-led-shows/

Men Are Sabotaging The Online Reviews Of TV Shows Aimed At Women

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/men-are-sabotaging-the-online-reviews-of-tv-shows-aimed-at-women/

Somewhat an old article but very relevant here. 

As Margaret Atwood supposedly said: "Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."

[CabotCove]

Quote

Women are afraid that men will kill them."

Explain. 

Its known that female viewers actually support male shows and rate them fairly. The same is not usually true the other way around

[BkWurm1]

So from what I read, it seems there is a baseline male bias that lowers the rating just by being thought of as a "female" show before they ever get to actually rating it.  Like because it's a "female" show the quality level can never measure as high as a "male" show and therefore is already lower even before any quality assessment is made. 

Well that sucks.

Not that I'm surprised.  I remember when I was a kid finding out that there were less cartoons aimed at girls because while girls would watch a cartoon with a boy lead, a boy was unlikely to watch a cartoon with a girl lead.  So apparently the boys grow up and still think "girl" stuff has cooties? 

[MarkHB]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

So from what I read, it seems there is a baseline male bias that lowers the rating just by being thought of as a "female" show before they ever get to actually rating it.  Like because it's a "female" show the quality level can never measure as high as a "male" show and therefore is already lower even before any quality assessment is made. 

Well that sucks.

Not that I'm surprised.  I remember when I was a kid finding out that there were less cartoons aimed at girls because while girls would watch a cartoon with a boy lead, a boy was unlikely to watch a cartoon with a girl lead.  So apparently the boys grow up and still think "girl" stuff has cooties? 

To your last point, how many times have you seen a show or movie milk the "OMG SHE LEFT FEMININE PRODUCTS IN MY BATHROOM!!!!" bit?  :D

Beyond that, and this is probably a gross over-generalization, I don't think it's necessarily a consideration of quality, but more of the nature of the programming.  "Female" shows are likely going to be pre-judged as heavy on relationship and character drama, and a lot of guys don't look to that for entertainment.  There's a reason that scripted shows that draw M 18-49 are treated like gold: because those eyeballs are largely drawn to live sporting events, and in today's TV landscape there's a game of some sort on every single night with the possible exception of Christmas Eve.

Disclaimer: I'm a straight, middle-class, middle-aged, fat American white guy. :)

[BkWurm1]

Well I know I prejudge the shows that are mostly there to blow things up and give a guy a chance to wallow in his manpain, but if it's not to my liking, I'm not going to watch or rate it, and if I do find it good enough to watch, I'm going to judge it on what it is not what I'd rather be watching, cause again, I'm only going to watch if it's worthy of my time. This article though seems to be talking about guys that are watching the show, maybe even avidly, but consider it lower quality even if they are a fan because of the girl friendly tone?

Quote

There's a reason that scripted shows that draw M 18-49 are treated like gold: because those eyeballs are largely drawn to live sporting events, and in today's TV landscape there's a game of some sort on every single night with the possible exception of Christmas Eve

Which puzzles me since from what I understand the male eyeballs in that broad demo aren't the ones making most of the decisions on how to spend the household money unless it is sports related so why they would treat that demo like gold confuses me, lol.  Maybe leftover habits from the past?

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Which puzzles me since from what I understand the male eyeballs in that broad demo aren't the ones making most of the decisions on how to spend the household money unless it is sports related so why they would treat that demo like gold confuses me, lol.  Maybe leftover habits from the past?

Well, I meant "like gold" in the sense that, given that there are advertisers who want to target all kinds of eyeballs, reaching a particular hard-to-reach demo helps your sales team sell to those who want to advertise to that demo (and the harder they are to reach, the more you can charge for the access).  Plus, while women might control the general household money, you still have, just by way of example:

• Guys in all-male households (bachelor roommates or guys who live alone)
• Products guys specifically buy (razors, for example, and I know that women buy those too but they're marketed differently)
• Cars primarily aimed at guys (sports cars, luxury sedans with lots of leather)
• Above-the-glass-ceiling products for business (it wasn't that long ago that NFL ad time was filled with commercials for IBM servers). Those in particular can be very lucrative for the stations as the product prices are so high so there's usually room in the marketing budget.

Again, I want to emphasize that I realize that individual men and women can like / watch / buy anything (or have broken the glass ceiling).  But ad sales and demographics aren't dealing with actual individuals (unless you're talking Internet), they're dealing with aggregates and statistics, and those numbers are what they are.

But I'll have to go back and read that article, and I'll freely admit that some percentage of guys are dicks.

[stealinghome]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Well I know I prejudge the shows that are mostly there to blow things up and give a guy a chance to wallow in his manpain, but if it's not to my liking, I'm not going to watch or rate it, and if I do find it good enough to watch, I'm going to judge it on what it is not what I'd rather be watching, cause again, I'm only going to watch if it's worthy of my time. This article though seems to be talking about guys that are watching the show, maybe even avidly, but consider it lower quality even if they are a fan because of the girl friendly tone?

Look no farther than the whiny man-babies who mounted Internet campaigns violently blasting the female Ghostbusters reboot and saying things like "this moving is raping my childhood" (actual famous quote). That was all to do with the fact that the leads were all female and the whiny fandicks could.not.handle ladies portrayed as equal to men.