The Taylor Swift Topic: Teen Country Sensation to World-Dominating Pop Star

[UYI]

1 hour ago, 27bored said:

Some stories have a ring of truth and some don’t. If you look at the photo, the woman on the other side of Taylor was his then-girlfriend. I know there are plenty of creepy men out there, but I can’t imagine this guy was going to grab a handful of Taylor Swift’s ass with his girlfriend standing next to her. Plus, there’s a narrative about Taylor that she’s a legal bully who are quick to sic her coterie of attorneys on people. And Taylor already seems like she’s wound tighter than a banjo string, so I’m guessing her and her mom don’t let shit go too easily.

 

 

 

Here's the thing, though:

This whole thing became public in the first place because he sued HER, after which she countersued HIM. Yes, she and her mom reported it to the station, which led to him getting fired, but Andrea Swift was quoted as originally wanting to keep quiet about all of this, so that Taylor's career wouldn't be adversely affected. It was only when he filed the lawsuit against her that she acknowledged it at all. We may have never known anything about this had it not been for Mueller's lawsuit. This happened during the Red Tour in 2013. The 1989 World Tour was close to over in 2015 before any of this became public. 

Look, there's a lot about Taylor that annoys the living hell out of me. But if his behavior was misinterpreted or didn't happen to begin with, I think we would have learned that a LONG time ago (or if it truly was a mistake, not at all, as this story wouldn't exist in the first place). Do I believe that the type of image her celebrity calls to mind--in addition to her race and hair color--afforded her sympathy that even some of the most outspoken of the #MeToo movement don't necessarily get, especially if they're black/other WOC? HELL YES. But she still put herself through a long court case and difficult trial, which a lot of people would NOT be able to do. I side-eye her for a lot of things, but I'm not going to side-eye her for this.

And honestly, while her stans can be some of the most scary and intense on all of social media, this is one case where the Swifties descending in full force in reaction to her assaulter finding a job again could truly be a GOOD thing. And trust me, much like their beloved leader, they tend to freak out at the TINIEST piece of criticism. But I'm on their side in this case, 100 percent. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by UYI

[27bored]

1 hour ago, UYI said:

Here's the thing, though:

This whole thing became public in the first place because he sued HER, after which she countersued HIM. Yes, she and her mom reported it to the station, which led to him getting fired, but Andrea Swift was quoted as originally wanting to keep quiet about all of this, so that Taylor's career wouldn't be adversely affected. It was only when he filed the lawsuit against her that she acknowledged it at all. We may have never known anything about this had it not been for Mueller's lawsuit. This happened during the Red Tour in 2013. The 1989 World Tour was close to over in 2015 before any of this became public. 

Well, there are a couple of things here. They had already gotten Mueller fired. So, there wasn't much else for her side to say. Her mom probably didn't want it getting out that she'd gotten someone fired because, well, it's not a good look when a multi-millionaire gets someone fired. Plus, with the way on-air talent and PDs move around, if you piss one of them off, you may find yourself black-balled in another market or the subject of industry gossip. Or, if I were to give them some credit, maybe they felt that they overreacted and wanted to put the whole thing behind them.

He sued her after initially requesting a letter stating it was a misunderstanding. He said he wanted to be able to show that to other stations so that they would be willing to hire him, and to do away with the narrative that he gropes women. She rebuffed him, so he then he sued her.

Also, I mean, it was public, but only the beats of the story. A DJ groped Taylor Swift, she reported him to his station, they fired him, he sued her and the radio station for wrongful termination. Then it became this story of how brave Taylor was on the witness stand with her answers. He says that it was an awkward encounter because he wasn't initially supposed to be in the picture, but was asked to lean in and I guess that's when he grabbed her ass, or grazed it or whatever. The mainstream media isn't about to take sides against a woman alleging sexual abuse, but I do wish someone would've gently asked the question, "how likely is it that a man is going to intentionally grab another woman's behind with his girlfriend standing on the other side of her?"

Look, there's a lot about Taylor that annoys the living hell out of me. But if his behavior was misinterpreted or didn't happen to begin with, I think we would have learned that a LONG time ago (or if it truly was a mistake, not at all, as this story wouldn't exist in the first place). Do I believe that the type of image her celebrity calls to mind--in addition to her race and hair color--afforded her sympathy that even some of the most outspoken of the #MeToo movement don't necessarily get, especially if they're black/other WOC? HELL YES. But she still put herself through a long court case and difficult trial, which a lot of people would NOT be able to do. I side-eye her for a lot of things, but I'm not going to side-eye her for this.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with the first part of this. I don't think that's true, both in general and especially not with Taylor. In many cases, companies are so quick to react, the person (usually male) doesn't get the opportunity to address the accusation without it looking like they're trying to save their own ass. When companies cut ties with people accused of things, especially sexual assault, in a weird way it kind of validates the accusation, even if the person is denying it. I think to some people they assume, "well, if it's not true, why did you get fired?" I doubt he wanted to immediately broadcast that he was fired for sexual misconduct, because then, everyone knows you were fired for sexual misconduct. And Taylor probably dug her heels in because if she wrote a letter saying it was a misunderstanding, well, if the letter gets out, then she looks bad for getting him fired over a mistake.

And also, I mean, Taylor doesn't strike me as the kind of person who lets things go. I don't necessarily think she's a cold-hearted person, but I 100% would NOT put it past her and her mom to report this even if this was, as he said, a misunderstanding. Some people let things go, and others kinda have to let you know what time it is at all times. And Taylor, whose reputation (no pun intended) is more or less predicated on wearing her heart on her sleeve, seems like she doesn't let shit go that easily.

And honestly, while her stans can be some of the most scary and intense on all of social media, this is one case where the Swifties descending in full force in reaction to her assaulter finding a job again could truly be a GOOD thing. And trust me, much like their beloved leader, they tend to freak out at the TINIEST piece of criticism. But I'm on their side in this case, 100 percent.

I...don't see how that could be a good thing. As a matter of fact, I think it wouldn't serve anybody well. I think people get the wrong idea, that the only way to be taken seriously is walk around with a chip on your shoulder and expect to settle everyone's hash who does you wrong. That has the exact opposite effect. When people get the impression that you're a snowflake, they stop taking your pain seriously.

There's a lot to admire and respect about Taylor Swift, but I think certain traits that make her a good songwriter and a compelling pop star also makes her a bit insufferable at times.

[27bored]

3 hours ago, aradia22 said:

This is my bias but I don't think the best things about a guy who has the option to change his name and chooses the name of a Confederate general.

I agree with that. When I found out he changed his name to Stonewall Jackson, I was raised several eyebrows. Maybe it’s a Mississippi Delta pandering thing. Also interesting: the radio website doesn’t have him or his co-hosts photo. It’s crazy. But on the other hand, the radio station has already received a bomb threat because he’s there. It’s ridiculous.

[CaughtOnTape]

Should he never be able to get another job or provide for his livelihood?  No.

Did he grope her?  Hell yes.  A thousand times yes.  

The way he conducted himself and how his lawyer conducted himself is all the evidence I need for that.  She may be annoying as fuck, but I will never believe she went after his job.  What on earth could she have to gain from getting a DJ fired from a radio station in Denver Colorado?  I live here, but even I'm not about to believe she had a thing to gain from it.  And also, he's smarmy and has a disgusting sense of humor.  Do I think he was doing it for sexual gratification?  No.  Do I think he was doing it for a laugh?  Yes.

He deserves what he got.  

And the "I don't tell, but I won't lie" attitude is kind of shitty IMO.  As a woman, it would be helpful if our fellow women would let us know "Hey...dude A over there can't keep his hands to himself.  Might wanna steer clear."  Would I steer clear?  That's up to me at that point.  But at least it might make me keep my guard up.  

[27bored]

6 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

Should he never be able to get another job or provide for his livelihood?  No.

Did he grope her?  Hell yes.  A thousand times yes.  

The way he conducted himself and how his lawyer conducted himself is all the evidence I need for that.  She may be annoying as fuck, but I will never believe she went after his job.  What on earth could she have to gain from getting a DJ fired from a radio station in Denver Colorado?  I live here, but even I'm not about to believe she had a thing to gain from it.  And also, he's smarmy and has a disgusting sense of humor.  Do I think he was doing it for sexual gratification?  No.  Do I think he was doing it for a laugh?  Yes.

He deserves what he got.  

Well, we have a difference of opinion, which is fine, and since I wasn't there, I can only insist on my point but so much. But like I said, I'm skeptical this guy grabbed Taylor's ass with his girlfriend standing next to her, for any reason. I just find that hard to believe.

That being said, let's not kid ourselves. We're talking about Taylor Swift. All the celebrity beefs she's been in, all the clingy, bitter songs she's written about people (especially guys she's dated), her behavior on social media. I don't think she needed a practical reason to go after the man's job. If I were being charitable, it's possible her mom was angrier about it than she was and notified the radio station. But if they complained, it's because they weren't going to let it slide. Again, I'm of the opinion that Taylor and her mom are petty and wouldn't care if it was an accident or intentional.

Another reason is, I really feel like if Taylor was a true victim, she'd have said something about it before the trial. Taylor's not afraid to sound off, especially if she feels like she was wronged. In the wake of the Kesha accusations and whatnot, Taylor tried to keep this whole thing under wraps. My theory is the actual situation doesn't paint her in the best light. That said, she did what she had to do. He sued, she defended herself and countersued for a dollar, and won.

If I thought he did it on purpose, her personality would be neither here nor there. But the man has denied it and he said initially all he wanted was a letter from her saying it was a misunderstanding so he could get another job. I'm not familiar with him as a radio personality or a person, but we have enough evidence not to necessarily trust Taylor's reactions to shit. She can be a world-class drama queen sometimes.

 

And the "I don't tell, but I won't lie" attitude is kind of shitty IMO.  As a woman, it would be helpful if our fellow women would let us know "Hey...dude A over there can't keep his hands to himself.  Might wanna steer clear."  Would I steer clear?  That's up to me at that point.  But at least it might make me keep my guard up. 

I meant that more as a way of keeping drama to a minimum. And not talking about this situation, but in general, sometimes when you feel the need to broadcast things, it can make them bigger than they are, even if it's not insignificant (if that makes sense).

Edited February 2, 2018 by 27bored

[JustaPerson]

Before he was fired, the DJ had a meeting with his bosses where he denied touching her inappropriately and secretly recorded it. Apparently one of the reasons he was fired was because his bosses were suspicious that he seemed to have changed his story from "an accident" to "never happened". Coincidentally his laptop, tablet, and phone (with the recording) were all "accidentally" destroyed. 

[27bored]

On 2/2/2018 at 11:40 PM, JustaPerson said:

 Apparently one of the reasons he was fired was because his bosses were suspicious that he seemed to have changed his story from "an accident" to "never happened".

Those two statements are not necessarily in conflict with each other if the accusation is that he grabbed her ass on purpose. His stuff being accidentally destroyed seems weird, though.

Like I said, I think the station likely wanted to keep their relationship with Taylor Swift (to whatever extent they had one), but I'm curious why they fired him for something he did presumably off hours. It doesn't seem like it was reported to the police -- which is another reason why I find her side of this a little suspect. I read that her management called the station and said their relationship would be in jeopardy if appropriate action wasn't taken. That sounds like a thinly veiled request to fire him, even though her mom said they just wanted them to investigate. That...sounds like bullshit. If they came back and said they found no evidence of wrongdoing, my guess is they wouldn't have a relationship with Taylor any longer.

[vibeology]

On 2018-02-02 at 6:44 PM, 27bored said:

Well, we have a difference of opinion, which is fine, and since I wasn't there, I can only insist on my point but so much. But like I said, I'm skeptical this guy grabbed Taylor's ass with his girlfriend standing next to her, for any reason. I just find that hard to believe.

I have no problem believing that. Sexual predators can be brazen. Louis CK whipped his dick out in public spaces multiple times, Matt Lauer made crude comments knowing he was miched up, buzzfeed had a story where a man stuck a hand down a sleeping woman's pants on an airplane where flight attendants are circulating and Larry Nassar molested minors while their parents were in the room. Getting away with it is clearly part of the thrill for some of these sickos. 

Most women have experienced some sort of accidental graze in their life. It's happened to me on the bus, during group photos and in tight aisles on planes. I know the difference between a graze and a grab and I see no reason to doubt Taylor does too. The picture of her assault exists. She looks uncomfortable and his arm is very low for someone who claims they're aiming for a back. 

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's get back to Taylor Swift and her music, please. Thank you.

[UYI]

I'm curious as to how well the tickets for her upcoming tour are selling now. A month ago, there was a lot of concern that the prices for tickets were so high, that literally NONE of her shows had sold out yet, even though her previous tours had sold out within minutes. I'd be curious at to what the status on her ticket sales are now. 

[Wishing Well]

On 2/4/2018 at 3:00 PM, UYI said:

I'm curious as to how well the tickets for her upcoming tour are selling now. A month ago, there was a lot of concern that the prices for tickets were so high, that literally NONE of her shows had sold out yet, even though her previous tours had sold out within minutes. I'd be curious at to what the status on her ticket sales are now. 

A sizeable chunk of her cities just got 2nd and 3rd shows added. 

[UYI]

8 hours ago, Wishing Well said:

A sizeable chunk of her cities just got 2nd and 3rd shows added. 

Yes, but like I said, her tickets are pretty expensive--and there were shows added a month ago, too, when it was reported that not one of her shows had been sold out yet, and a lot of people were angry that ticket prices were/are so high. I was just wondering, because it seems like while it could be one of the highest-grossing tours of all time, it could be more because of the price of the tickets, rather than the number of people there. 

It just sort of feels like these extra shows have been added out of desperation, rather than any real demand. There's been a LOT of concern only her richest fans can afford these tickets.

 

(I hope I didn't come across as rude at the beginning! "Like I said" can come across like that, especially in print, and I always do my best to try to be kind to everyone here.) 

Edited February 6, 2018 by UYI

[vibeology]

23 minutes ago, UYI said:

Yes, but like I said, her tickets are pretty expensive--and there were shows added a month ago, too, when it was reported that not one of her shows had been sold out yet, and a lot of people were angry that ticket prices were/are so high. I was just wondering, because it seems like while it could be one of the highest-grossing tours of all time, it could be more because of the price of the tickets, rather than the number of people there. 

It just sort of feels like these extra shows have been added out of desperation, rather than any real demand. There's been a LOT of concern only her richest fans can afford these tickets.

 

(I hope I didn't come across as rude at the beginning! "Like I said" can come across like that, especially in print, and I always do my best to try to be kind to everyone here.) 

I do get the sense that many of those second shows were added so they can sell more of the Snake Pit/Floor and lower level seats. When you're already paying over a hundred dollars for a nosebleed ticket, why not spend $50 more for a better seat on the second night, after all? I bet when the concerts roll around, they'll have to tarp over some of the nosebleeds at many of her stops but it'll be more than worth it because those high end tickets will be putting money in Taylor's pocket.

[UYI]

The music video for Taylor's new single, "Delicate". I...don't know why she chose some interpretative dance nonsense for this, but I've given up trying to figure out her motivation for things for the most part now.

[WendyCR72]

Maybe Taylor wants to be this generation's Tawny Kitaen? She was married to David Coverdale, lead singer of Whitesnake, for a time. Most notable for this:

[Silver Raven]

Taylor is touring with Camila Cabello and Charli XcX.  I would love to see the other two, much more than to see Taylor.

I also just heard a little quip on the radio about how Selena Gomez is jealous of Camila for touring with Taylor.

[UYI]

3 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Taylor is touring with Camila Cabello and Charli XcX.  I would love to see the other two, much more than to see Taylor.

I also just heard a little quip on the radio about how Selena Gomez is jealous of Camila for touring with Taylor.

This is probably going to be a BIG boost for Charli XCX. She hasn't really had a hit since "Boom Clap" in 2014.

I love "Havana", but I'm not as familiar with Camila's other music. 

[Neko]

Spotify randomly selected "Getaway Car" for me the other day, and I didn't like it.  I know some people consider this one of the best songs on "Reputation", but something about the way Taylor sings it really annoys me.  I'm not sure what it is.

Of course, reading the posts I've made in this thread makes it sound like I just don't like ANYTHING about Taylor's music, which isn't true, lol.  I love "Style" and "Wildest Dreams", and I think "Out of the Woods" is an underrated song.  I tend to like her when she doesn't try so hard.  I keep hoping she'll go away for a while, come back with a much more mature attitude, and start releasing more "adult" albums, because I do think she has something to offer, musically speaking.  She's not great, but she is good. :/

Edited March 19, 2018 by Sweet Summer Child

[GaT]

40 minutes ago, Sweet Summer Child said:

I love "Style" and "Wildest Dreams", 

I'm always seeing posts from people who love "Style" & I've never understood why. I find it kind of annoying, it's one of the songs I turn off if it comes on the radio. "Wildest Dreams" also doesn't ring any bells for me. I really don't like "End Game" either, I hate the noise she makes after she sings " you and me we got big reputations", it's the same sound that rappers sometimes make (especially Drake) & it sets my teeth on edge, but I guess different strokes & all that :-)

[UYI]

1 hour ago, GaT said:

I'm always seeing posts from people who love "Style" & I've never understood why. I find it kind of annoying, it's one of the songs I turn off if it comes on the radio. "Wildest Dreams" also doesn't ring any bells for me. I really don't like "End Game" either, I hate the noise she makes after she sings " you and me we got big reputations", it's the same sound that rappers sometimes make (especially Drake) & it sets my teeth on edge, but I guess different strokes & all that :-)

What are songs of hers that you consider your favorites? 

Edited March 19, 2018 by UYI

[GaT]

23 minutes ago, UYI said:

What are songs of hers that you consider your favorites? 

I wouldn't say I have "favorites", more like there are songs I'll listen to if they come on the radio, like "I Knew You Were Trouble", "Bad Blood", or "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together"

[aradia22]

Re: Delicate video

It's interesting how Taylor constructs authenticity in the video. It's something celebrities have to be aware of now more than ever. She definitely walks a line in the video in showing that obviously her public self is a performance but there are shades. Like, I think her fan interaction when she was asked for a selfie was supposed to be more genuine. The message of the video felt a lot like Lucky.

Also, what was that... leather beret???

I feel like the interpretative dance was just like... this is me. I'm really a goofy girl who doesn't take herself too seriously. I think that's why she chose to channel musical theater in a lot of the choreography. And it's notable that this "real" self can't be seen by any of the people in the video who represent her life among the rich and famous. Of course, that's the thing... it's highly choreographed. And the ending was kind of abrupt. We never really understood why the people in the bar were more able to see her real self.

[truthaboutluv]

46 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

It's interesting how Taylor constructs authenticity in the video. It's something celebrities have to be aware of now more than ever. She definitely walks a line in the video in showing that obviously her public self is a performance but there are shades. Like, I think her fan interaction when she was asked for a selfie was supposed to be more genuine. The message of the video felt a lot like Lucky.

All great, except I'm still trying to figure out what it has to do with the song Delicate. Because I've read the lyrics of Delicate and the video has nothing to do with the song, IMO. Also, maybe her director Joseph Khan could spend less time going after anyone he thinks dares to criticize his queen Taylor, so he can have more time coming up with original ideas, so he doesn't just jack another person's. The Delicate video is an obvious rip off of the Spike Jonze directed video ad for the brand Kenzo. See for yourself. 

[GaT]

7 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I feel like the interpretative dance was just like... this is me. I'm really a goofy girl who doesn't take herself too seriously. I think that's why she chose to channel musical theater in a lot of the choreography. And it's notable that this "real" self can't be seen by any of the people in the video who represent her life among the rich and famous. Of course, that's the thing... it's highly choreographed. And the ending was kind of abrupt. We never really understood why the people in the bar were more able to see her real self.

I thought the dancing was supposed to be a "dance like nobody's watching" thing, because in the video, no one can see her. The people in the bar can see her because of the paper (or whatever it is) she's holding. It's goes all magical in the bathroom & that's when she becomes invisible, & it does it again in the bar so she becomes visible again.

The part that confuses me is when she's walking in the middle of her security detail & they stop, step backward, & then start walking forward again. What's going on there?

[aradia22]

@GaT I thought it was more like she was trying to be "seen" the whole time. The bar was confusing because I had no idea what the paper was when it first appeared in the powder room (?) and then at the end I assumed that she was meeting some guy at the bar (presumably the guy who likes the real her if it's supposed to have anything to do with the song). I thought the paper at the end was like a note to tell her where to meet him. But it didn't explain why all the other people in the bar could see her. Usually when people are coded as "ordinary" or "authentic" they lay it on thick. All of those people felt like pretty attractive extras. They weren't as fancy as the people at the hotel (?) but they were put together in a way that clearly made them seem like actors rather than people at a bar on the "East Side" of any place I can think of. They were normal in the way people in Old Navy commercials are normal. 

The part with the security detail is Taylor playing around and realizing how they're trained to move with her to guard her. If she stops, they all stop. Which makes sense but it's played up for comedy and to show how restrictive her world supposedly is. Whereas in real life, I'm sure she's not flanked by four guys in formation and her bodyguards aren't banned from showing emotion. 

[GaT]

4 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

@GaT I thought it was more like she was trying to be "seen" the whole time. The bar was confusing because I had no idea what the paper was when it first appeared in the powder room (?) and then at the end I assumed that she was meeting some guy at the bar (presumably the guy who likes the real her if it's supposed to have anything to do with the song). I thought the paper at the end was like a note to tell her where to meet him. But it didn't explain why all the other people in the bar could see her. Usually when people are coded as "ordinary" or "authentic" they lay it on thick. All of those people felt like pretty attractive extras. They weren't as fancy as the people at the hotel (?) but they were put together in a way that clearly made them seem like actors rather than people at a bar on the "East Side" of any place I can think of. They were normal in the way people in Old Navy commercials are normal. 

The part with the security detail is Taylor playing around and realizing how they're trained to move with her to guard her. If she stops, they all stop. Which makes sense but it's played up for comedy and to show how restrictive her world supposedly is. Whereas in real life, I'm sure she's not flanked by four guys in formation and her bodyguards aren't banned from showing emotion. 

I don't think they explain what the paper is, so I found that confusing too. Why is it magical? Where does it come from?

I would never have guessed what the part with the bodyguards is

[UYI]

I think the paper was supposed to be the note from the guy (or woman, if you believe she and Karlie Kloss are secret girlfriends, lol) to meet them at that bar, like the line in the song. 

[aradia22]

Quote

I think the paper was supposed to be the note from the guy (or woman, if you believe she and Karlie Kloss are secret girlfriends, lol) to meet them at that bar, like the line in the song. 

That's what I thought but it doesn't explain why ALL the people at the bar can suddenly see her. Delicate is about how the guy she's seeing must like her because her reputation's never been worse. But all these randos at the bar don't like her. So why can they see her when the people at the hotel couldn't? Maybe you could say that the people at the hotel could technically see her but were just ignoring her (like ostracizing the odd person out). But it makes no sense for her bodyguards to let her leave unprotected if they could see her. The video should really end with her finding a guy or with her being with fans/friends/family/otherwise supportive people who see the "real" her. It makes no sense for it to end with strangers at a bar like this. 

[Silver Raven]

I just found a TSwift song I like.  Too bad the video is more whining.

[UYI]

10 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

I just found a TSwift song I like.  Too bad the video is more whining.

 

I posted that video here when it came out a few weeks ago. She actually just released another video for it the other day, because with her first video, she ripped off a perfume ad from a few years ago almost shot by shot.

[27bored]

So there’s been a lot of chatter about Taylor Swift’s cover of September by Earth, Wind, and Fire.

Despite myself, I...kinda like it. If you set aside the racial politics, and the fact that it’s Tay Tay, and just listen to it, it’s not bad. In fact, it’s really good at what it accomplishes.

All at once, it sounds like Vintage Taylor, and like, OG Dixie Chicks. Slowed down, September sounds like the spiritual sequel to her song “Mine”, which I’m sure is just a coincidence. And the prominent banjo and sweet harmony sounds like it could’ve been a cover the Dixie Chicks did on their first tour after they broke through. 

So, I gotta hand it to Taylor for doing something so simple, yet so effective, both artistically and in terms of being a pop star.

[rainbowmonkey]

Honestly, I feel like she is a mean girl. Don't get me wrong I like her music, not all of it but the majority but I feel like she is just mean or fake... idk

[mattie0808]

I couldn't make it through the whole thing. Sometime back, there were...let's call them...interesting interpretations of Beyonce's "Formation" and "Work" by Rihanna on YouTube that inspired a couple days worth of trap covers of pop songs as a fairly hilarious form of joking retaliation. Taylor doing this song, in this way (EXACTLY how one would guess Taylor doing this song would sound, but to the Nth degree), is like the combined power of all those Formations and Works, on steroids. Sigh.

[truthaboutluv]

On 4/16/2018 at 10:26 AM, 27bored said:

And the prominent banjo and sweet harmony sounds like it could’ve been a cover the Dixie Chicks did on their first tour after they broke through. 

Well that's kind of insulting to the Chicks, who for the record, I freaking love. 

 

On 4/16/2018 at 10:26 AM, 27bored said:

So, I gotta hand it to Taylor for doing something so simple, yet so effective, both artistically and in terms of being a pop star.

I find this comment interesting considering your comments in the Beyonce thread of her being basic because YMMV, this cover and Taylor Swift in general is the definition of basic to me. She added a random banjo that frankly sounded awkward in my opinion and slowed the song down with her average vocals. There was nothing new and inspired about this cover. When I think of a cover that in my opinion would fall into "simple, yet effective artistically", I think Johnny Cash's cover of Nine Inch Nails' Hurt. Not this middle school dreck. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[UYI]

For what it's worth, I can't really judge Taylor's cover of "September" in terms of racial issues when I love Dwight Yoakam's bluegrass version of "Purple Rain" (which he recorded shortly after he learned Prince died, and I do feel he did it justice).

One cover I feel Taylor DID do well is Vance Joy's "Riptide", but to be honest, it's not THAT different from the original, so that could be why. 

[Neko]

Okay..."September" is actually one of my favorite songs, no joke, so hearing Taylor freaking Swift sing it in that slowed-down, comatose way that is so popular with cover songs these days is just...I feel like a microscopic part of my soul died, a little.  This belongs in the trailer for a terrible Nicholas Sparks movie.  UGH.

[27bored]

On 4/17/2018 at 3:10 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Well that's kind of insulting to the Chicks, who for the record, I freaking love. 

 

I find this comment interesting considering your comments in the Beyonce thread of her being basic because YMMV, this cover and Taylor Swift in general is the definition of basic to me. She added a random banjo that frankly sounded awkward in my opinion and slowed the song down with her average vocals. There was nothing new and inspired about this cover. When I think of a cover that in my opinion would fall into "simple, yet effective artistically", I think Johnny Cash's cover of Nine Inch Nails' Hurt. Not this middle school dreck. 

 

It’s reminiscent of the Dixie Chicks. Of course not as good. They have harmonies and Natalie Maine’s is a way better singer than Taylor.

 

And the thing is, her reworking Of the song isn’t particularly inspired, but the fact that she thought to do it, and turned it into a low-key trad-Country song, not to mention that it oddly fits in with her oeuvre In a way her last 2-3 albums didn’t, was pretty clever. It works in the way I Will Always Love You worked. The original is a fairly simple ballad saying goodbye to a mentor; Whitney sang it as a soaring pop power ballad about saying goodbye to a lover. Of course, this doesn’t work to the same extent, or on nearly the same scale, but Taylor managed to find a new secret in an old soul classic. She sounds unaffected, vulnerable, a little sad...like an ingenue. Like she did before her pop makeover.

Edited April 20, 2018 by 27bored

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, 27bored said:

And the thing is, her reworking Of the song isn’t particularly inspired, but the fact that she thought to do it, and turned it into a low-key trad-Country song, not to mention that it oddly fits in with her oeuvre In a way her last 2-3 albums didn’t, was pretty clever. It works in the way I Will Always Love You worked. The original is a fairly simple ballad saying goodbye to a mentor; Whitney sang it as a soaring pop power ballad about saying goodbye to a lover. Of course, this doesn’t work to the same extent, or on nearly the same scale, but Taylor managed to find a new secret in an old soul classic. She sounds unaffected, vulnerable, a little sad...like an ingenue.

Uh huh. I think it's best to politely agree to disagree on this one. Saying, "well not as good as that" when using examples like Houston's career defining I Will Always Love You cover doesn't make the comparison or even the mention of the song in this conversation, any more ludicrous.

Yes, you're right. Whitney took a folksie country song (well more specifically her producer did) about saying goodbye to a mentor and made it into a blockbuster, bombastic pop ballad. Another example of a cover that redefined a song is Calum Scott's cover of Robyn's Dancing On My Own. He took a dance song and made it into a tear your heart out emotional and painful ballad. Sure the lyrics were always heartbreaking but with Robyn's version, some were too busy dancing and grooving to truly feel the pain and angst of the song. Calum's version did that. 

Again, agree to disagree because I didn't hear any vulnerable, sad ingenue on this. It was Taylor awkwardly strumming a bango and slowing down a disco classic with her mediocre vocals. I seriously spent the entire time listening to the cover with a frown on my face because I was just confused. Confused as to why and how anyone thought this was a good idea. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[UYI]

Her "ah ah ah"'s on her cover on "September" were awkward as hell, and reminded me (in a bad way) of "Dress" on her new album. Yikes.

Speaking of which, this is hilarious:

[27bored]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Uh huh. I think it's best to politely agree to disagree on this one. Saying, "well not as good as that" when using examples like Houston's career defining I Will Always Love You cover doesn't make the comparison or even the mention of the song in this conversation, any more ludicrous.

LOL. OK, maybe I went a tad overboard comparing the two, but I was at lunch, on my phone, and writing in stream-of-conscience. I guess I reverse engineered it in my head because I Will Always Love You started as a country song, then it became a pop song for most people. "September" is a disco song that Taylor made over into a Country song. I still stand my general point -- that when you rearrange and re-work songs, new secrets come out -- but maybe I Will Always Love You isn't the best example.

Yes, you're right. Whitney took a folksie country song (well more specifically her producer did) about saying goodbye to a mentor and made it into a blockbuster, bombastic pop ballad. Another example of a cover that redefined a song is Calum Scott's cover of Robyn's

Dancing On My Own. He took a dance song and made it into a tear your heart out emotional and painful ballad. Sure the lyrics were always heartbreaking but with Robyn's version, some were too busy dancing and grooving to truly feel the pain and angst of the song. Calum's version did that.

We gotta find a way to get on the same page ;) Because I have to disagree with the part about Calum Scott's version (not to get too O/T). I remember hearing people rave about that and rushing to go listen. In my opinion, that sounds kinda basic. I liked it, but it seems like the kind of gimmick meant to work on a televised talent show. The guy can sing (even though he has this mannered, slightly over-calculated way of emoting, but I think that might be a British thing), but it felt like all he did was a slowed-down version of Dancing on My Own that's more of an en trend 2010s post-American Idol/Fifty Shades of Grey soundtrack trick than a creative reworking of a song.

Calum took a dance song, slowed it down to amp up the drama of the song. To me, it doesn't feel like he's singing about something different, or introducing a new emotion to the same set of lyrics to make it a different story. It was just a sad song turned even sadder with stark surroundings. I still like it, though.

OTOH, Taylor made "September" work as a country song, not just a country song, but a Country song she could've written and performed originally. It takes talent but also savvy to do that. Kris Allen from AI was good at that (I'd argue he's one of the most important recording artists of the last decade for that reason, but that's a different conversation). A more well-known example would be "Lovesong" by Adele, where she reworked a song originally down by the Cure and turned it into a smoky ballad that...kinda sounds like one of hers.

Again, agree to disagree because I didn't hear any vulnerable, sad ingenue on this. It was Taylor awkwardly strumming a bango and slowing down a disco classic with her mediocre vocals. I seriously spent the entire time listening to the cover with a frown on my face because I was just confused. Confused as to why and how anyone thought this was a good idea.

I do wonder who thought this would be a good idea. I mean, I like it creatively speaking, but we're in the Age of Outrage, and Taylor gets it worse than she deserves very often. I wonder if she anticipated the "How Dare You?" parade over her decision to put this out.

[truthaboutluv]

29 minutes ago, 27bored said:

Kris Allen from AI was good at that (I'd argue he's one of the most important recording artists of the last decade for that reason, but that's a different conversation). 

Oh dear...yeah I'm officially done. Yes, nothing says original as jacking a cover of Heartless that had been done by numerous other "white boy strumming their guitar" guys and was all over You Tube. But to clueless Idol fans, it was the most genius, original and creative thing ever. 

And yes, we disagree about Calum's version of Dancing on my Own. I cannot and likely will never wrap my head around declaring that mess Taylor did as something interesting and oh so different and calling Calum's cover basic. Playing a banjo on a song doesn't suddenly make it creative or special. Especially when the result is an awkward mess. Calum may have "just slowed the song down" but in my opinion his delivery and emotion on the song captured what you claim Taylor did on that hot mess September cover. YMMV

eta: And just to clear up any confusion, my dislike of this cover is solely based on the fact that it sucks and zero to do with her covering a black group's song. I mean really people?

OTOH, Taylor made "September" work as a country song

But she didn't. It wasn't pop, country, disco...it was just bad.

Edited April 20, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[aradia22]

Quote

But she didn't. It wasn't pop, country, disco...it was just bad.

I like Postmodern Jukebox but I feel this way about a good 25%-40% of their stuff. When you do a cover in a different genre or with a different arrangement it has to make sense and you have to understand what makes the song good in the first place. Don't fuck with the tempo if it's a dance jam. Don't mess up the melody if the whole point is the catchy hook. Don't strip down the production if that's what makes the original work. And just don't step to better vocalists unless you have a dramatically different interpretation because there will be comparisons and you will look bad. 

[mattie0808]

Well, I can't say I didn't enjoy this highly descriptive take from the song's co-writer!

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/8456826/taylor-swift-september-cover-co-writer-allee-willis-comments

Quote

"I didn't really think she did a horrible job. Yes, I felt it was as lethargic as a drunk turtle dozing under a sunflower after ingesting a bottle of Valium, and I thought it had all the build of a one-story motel, but, I mean, the girl didn't kill anybody. She didn't run over your foot. She just cut a very calm and somewhat boring take of one of the peppiest, happiest, most popular songs in history."    

Quote

"everyone has a right to do with a song what they please, so go on with your own bad self, Taylor Swift. I'm honored you'd choose to do my song and that it meant enough to you that you wanted to personalize it to the goddamn 28th night of September, that you wanted to cover it with banjo... and that you changed the sacred ba-de-ya to the more Caucasian ah-ah-ah and make it sound more like a field of daffodils than a Soul Train line."

[UYI]

I know she tells Taylor to ultimately go on with her bad self (PLEASE don't encourage that, Allee; I saw the Endgame video and it STILL leave scars with her desperate attempts at "grown up cool", which roughly translates to "I get drunk because I can, bitches!" Yawn.), but DAMN that was enough shade to fill the Redwood Forests. 

[FlickerInTheNight]

On 5/22/2018 at 9:07 AM, mattie0808 said:

Well, I can't say I didn't enjoy this highly descriptive take from the song's co-writer!

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/8456826/taylor-swift-september-cover-co-writer-allee-willis-comments

Everything about this is awesome.  Because Taylor Swift deserves to be told her music is boring.

[UYI]

The rumor is that "Getaway Car" will be her next (and probably final) single. There were many from the beginning who thought it was the best song on reputation (probably because it sounds like a lost 1989 track), so I'm curious to see how that will work out. 

"I Did Something Bad" would have been a good choice, too, but since that song actually includes the word "shit", I KNOW she would NEVER risk a single that would result in a radio edit for a curse word! PERISH THE THOUGHT AND PASS THE SMELLING SALTS. :P

[UYI]

Oh, Dear God. Jennifer Hudson is going to wipe the floor with her vocal-wise:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/taylor-swift-jennifer-hudson-james-corden-ian-mckellen-star-cats-movie-adaptation-1128647

[aradia22]

Everything about this Cats movie sounds like a bad idea. No reason to hate on Taylor in particular.

[Silver Raven]

3 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Everything about this Cats movie sounds like a bad idea. No reason to hate on Taylor in particular.

There are lots of reasons to hate on Taylor.

[UYI]

1 hour ago, aradia22 said:

Everything about this Cats movie sounds like a bad idea. No reason to hate on Taylor in particular.

But she's the one with the smallest vocal range. I wasn't "hating" on her in particular, I was just stating a fact about her vocal abilities. She may not have approached the embarrassment of her duet with Stevie Nicks at the Grammys in 2010 for the most part since, but at the end of the day, as someone who actually likes a lot of her music (and tries not to get too irritated about her more White Woman Becky Moments (TM)--and I'm a white woman myself), I can safely say that vocal talent is quite low on the list of her strong points, in terms of range, at least (she's more effective at setting a mood with her voice).

...I hope you're not mad at me, @aradia22. We are close to the same age, I think (I'm Taylor's age), and I like a lot of your posts. :)

Edited July 20, 2018 by UYI