Figure Skating

[displayname]

11 hours ago, Darknight said:

I don't understand why jumps, spins, skating skills aren't weighed the same.  It would force skaters and coaches to work on everything and not just jumps. 

Because jumps are the riskiest of the elements. I do think the judges should be made to score them better, though.

[Ruby Gillis]

11 hours ago, Darknight said:

I don't understand why jumps, spins, skating skills aren't weighed the same.  It would force skaters and coaches to work on everything and not just jumps. 

Bring back the required spiral sequence!

[Darknight]

5 hours ago, Ruby Gillis said:

Bring back the required spiral sequence!

I miss this. Heck bring back figures too. Spirals are my favorites 

[Darknight]

6 hours ago, displayname said:

Because jumps are the riskiest of the elements. I do think the judges should be made to score them better, though.

I understand this but weighing all elements equally would force skaters and coaches to train and improve all of their elements. Spins, skating skills, jumps should be equal. A skater who has great jumps but terrible skating skills should be forced to work on their skating skills. 

The whole pre-rotation and under-rotation thing. Why is it a rule when judges clearly don't call it out nor care? It's clearly in the ISU rule book but the judges and the ISU just ignore it. Men and ladies have gotten away with bad jumps and poor technique for years because the judges and tech  panel don't follow rules. 

[Darknight]

I just want to say this. Seeing Simone Biles and other gymnasts in their 20s performing is amazing. Simone is 22 and still doing great things. 

I'm sad to see comments from fans and others telling older skaters like Liza, Evegenia, Alina, Gracie, to retire to make way for the upcoming baby jumping ballerinas. People are already predicting the Olympics and Worlds. The Eteri new senior skaters are 15 and 16 years old. Alyssa is 14 years old. So what happens when they're 17 and 18 years old? Will they be seen as old too? I enjoy these skaters in the moment and I'm not on the hype train. So many things can happen that we just can't predict who will win or who will be at the Olympics. We forget they're all young girls with young bodies. They're kids. Let them skate. Kids aren't kids forever. I just hope they all stay healthy and pace their training right. 

And Elisabet is injuried with a serious back injury. Her mom said she can't even sit forward. I hope she gets better. 

On 10/9/2019 at 1:05 PM, nittanycougar said:

A few years ago, Virtue and Moir starred in a reality show.  The reality show portrayed them as being attracted to each other.  There were several scenes of Tessa acting jealous about Scott's then- girlfriend.  I guess they thought that the show was good promotion, but the romantic storylines were strange for people who claim they are just friends. I think it was all for show, but it was manipulative regarding their status.

I think the shipping started with that show.

What reality show? 

[doodlebug]

16 minutes ago, Darknight said:

I just want to say this. Seeing Simone Biles and other gymnasts in their 20s performing is amazing. Simone is 22 and still doing great things. 

I'm sad to see comments from fans and others telling older skaters like Liza, Evegenia, Alina, Gracie, to retire to make way for the upcoming baby jumping ballerinas. People are already predicting the Olympics and Worlds. The Eteri new senior skaters are 15 and 16 years old. Alyssa is 14 years old. So what happens when they're 17 and 18 years old? Will they be seen as old too? I enjoy these skaters in the moment and I'm not on the hype train. So many things can happen that we just can't predict who will win or who will be at the Olympics. We forget they're all young girls with young bodies. They're kids. Let them skate. Kids aren't kids forever. I just hope they all stay healthy and pace their training right. 

And Elisabet is injuried with a serious back injury. Her mom said she can't even sit forward. I hope she gets better. 

What reality show? 

This one:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3460038/

[SeanC]

23 minutes ago, Darknight said:

I'm sad to see comments from fans and others telling older skaters like Liza, Evegenia, Alina, Gracie, to retire to make way for the upcoming baby jumping ballerinas. People are already predicting the Olympics and Worlds. The Eteri new senior skaters are 15 and 16 years old. Alyssa is 14 years old. So what happens when they're 17 and 18 years old? Will they be seen as old too?

Alyssa's situation is very different from all the Russian skaters you list.  The USA doesn't have the churn of new skaters moving up like clockwork every season or two.

While of course many fans of younger skaters are jerks about the older ones that they don't like (or older skaters in general), when talking about the Russian ranks there's a basic reality that if their goal in skating is to get on the World/Olympic team, the window in which to do so isn't very long.  With Medvedeva, whose explicit goal is to go to Beijing in two-and-a-half years, it's not wrong to say that that's probably a longshot.  Which doesn't mean she shouldn't skate, of course, especially as she clearly finds it fulfilling.  Alena Leonova just keeps plugging away and getting maybe one international per season despite it being many years since she got to go to any championships.

[Darknight]

On 10/5/2019 at 8:49 AM, displayname said:

It bothers me that Nathan Chen can't listen to his music, no matter what. He has some nice qualities to his arms when he tries, but goodness, no.

His costumes are the worse. He honestly looks like a tourist going on vacation. 

[Darknight]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Alyssa's situation is very different from all the Russian skaters you list.  The USA doesn't have the churn of new skaters moving up like clockwork every season or two.

While of course many fans of younger skaters are jerks about the older ones that they don't like (or older skaters in general), when talking about the Russian ranks there's a basic reality that if their goal in skating is to get on the World/Olympic team, the window in which to do so isn't very long.  With Medvedeva, whose explicit goal is to go to Beijing in two-and-a-half years, it's not wrong to say that that's probably a longshot.  Which doesn't mean she shouldn't skate, of course, especially as she clearly finds it fulfilling.  Alena Leonova just keeps plugging away and getting maybe one international per season despite it being many years since she got to go to any championships.

I honestly see Alysa similar to the Russians in regards to enjoying her now and not worrying about the future. USA fed should also stop with their hype. I do see some good up and coming USA lady skaters. Lindsey and Isabeau look good. However, saying Alysa will take over and win everything and Gracie, Bradie, and Mariah should retire shouldn't be said. We don't know how Alysa will skate at 16 or next year. Many skaters have been hyped up before. Who knows. Maybe Bradie, Gracie, Mariah, or another USA lady will breakout. We just don't know. Which is why fans need to be mindful and not predict who will win or say older skaters should go. 

Who knows about Eteri skaters . Eteri already has skaters until 2030 at least. There are only three spots and she has 7 skaters I believe who are eligible for the Olympics. 4 this year are eligible for Worlds. We just don't know who will survive, get tired, injured, etc. Everyone thought she would win Gold but Gold went to Alina. Everyone thought Eteri juniors and seniors would be undefeated and win everything this season. Fans need to understand we don't need to push older skaters out just because new ones come along. If anything older skaters have more experience, knowledge, and maturity. Why should older skaters retire? 

I honestly think Evgenia got screwed because she got away with poor technique and skating for so long and went undefeated for two seasons. So now she has to fix a lot of her skating and also allow her body to grow and heal. I honestly would've never predicted a two time world champion and a skater who went undefeated for two seasons would be in the position she is in now. I say that in a good way not a bad way. Leaving Russia, fixing her skating, being called out for her technique, not winning gold at the Olympics. This is why I just enjoy the moment. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Darknight

[Darknight]

On 10/7/2019 at 1:44 PM, Growsonwalls said:

I've seen some of the social media meltdowns. I must say that some of the stuff directed at Scott's fiance is creepy. People basically hate her because she's ... not Tessa. I think this fan-girling stuff is sort of juvenile usually but with V/M I think they sort of trolled and played along with it for so long that now that the fantasy is over it's like they no longer know what to do.

With that being said I'm also perfectly willing to believe that romantic partners of Tessa and Scott are not comfortable with the amount of romantic speculation that surrounds them whenever they skate together and so that's why the partnership is ending so abruptly.

I think Tess and Scott played up their relationship. Fans speculated and they have great chemistry and used it to their advantage. I mean I get it. Ice dance is about telling a story and having chemistry. I honestly don't understand why some fans are so obsessed about them. They're ice dancers. They're competitive. They spent every day with each other for 20 years. They're partners. It's acting. I like their performance. Who cares about everything else. 

[Ruby Gillis]

2 hours ago, Darknight said:

Heck bring back figures too.

I think figures could be interesting in the youtube age.  They wouldn't need to show it as part of the main broadcast.  Cameras on the skate blades?  Curling seems to be popular because it's slow and soothing.  Seeing people trace figures could have similar appeal.  

1 hour ago, Darknight said:

Who knows about Eteri skaters . Eteri already has skaters until 2030 at least. There are only three spots and she has 7 skaters I believe who are eligible for the Olympics. 4 this year are eligible for Worlds. We just don't know who will survive, get tired, injured, etc.

Yeah, who knows what will happen with quads?  Tursynbayeva is currently injured.  Shcherbakova broke her leg a few years ago.  With what we hear about Eteri's daily weigh-ins and not letting Zagitova drink water at Worlds, nutrition is not a high priority.  Injuries seem inevitable.  

Edited October 11, 2019 by Ruby Gillis

[Mellowyellow]

9 hours ago, Ruby Gillis said:

Bring back the required spiral sequence!

Ooh yes this was what I did like from the old routines.

Why did they get rid of it? It was awesome!!!

[Mellowyellow]

I haven't seen anyone say Bradie and Mariah should retire. I see a lot of acknowledgement of how much Bradie has improved. She's keeps improving and is very sound in general. It was a bummer she ended up in the boot and had to miss Autumn Classic. 

People are excited because Alysa has the goods and clearly the IT factor. If she does not have a major injury or meltdown she should continue to do well. She's got the jumps and is a joy to watch performance wise. It's very reasonable to be excited by someone like that.

***

One thing that baffles me is Evgenia's jumps. Alina kinda of lost her jumps last year and seems to have them back this year. (Cripes please don't let me jinx her)

I still wonder why Evgenia had to relearn everything and mess up all her jumps in the process. 

They should have similar technique both being coached by Eteri so I'm puzzled as to why she couldn't just keep the same jumps like Alina. 

[displayname]

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I still wonder why Evgenia had to relearn everything and mess up all her jumps in the process. 

They should have similar technique both being coached by Eteri so I'm puzzled as to why she couldn't just keep the same jumps like Alina. 

Well, Medvedeva is the older athlete.

[Ruby Gillis]

11 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

One thing that baffles me is Evgenia's jumps. Alina kinda of lost her jumps last year and seems to have them back this year. (Cripes please don't let me jinx her)

I still wonder why Evgenia had to relearn everything and mess up all her jumps in the process. 

I think Alina was the more athletic skater to begin with and had slightly better technique.  Evgenia's also working on skating skills and speed.  

I don't want to open a can of worms, but do we think Icarus-type stuff is still going on?  How widespread is doping in figure skating in general?

Finlandia Trophy has started.  Tuktamysheva's performance has gotten a lot better!  I think this will be a really great program.  But she's not getting positive GOE on her lutz?  even though it's amazing? 

https://www.rockerskating.com/news/2019/10/11/2019-finlandia-trophy-play-by-playresults-ladies-short

[Omeletsmom]

19 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ooh yes this was what I did like from the old routines.

Why did they get rid of it? It was awesome!!!

I loved seeing the spirals in Bradie's program someone linked a few pages back.  I have really missed them.

[annzeepark914]

On 10/11/2019 at 10:26 AM, Ruby Gillis said:

Bring back the required spiral sequence!

And include the change edge spiral which is not an easy thing to do.  Michelle's change edge spiral was gorgeous (Sasha's? the cameras never focused on her skate!)

[SeanC]

On 10/11/2019 at 4:54 PM, Darknight said:

I understand this but weighing all elements equally would force skaters and coaches to train and improve all of their elements. Spins, skating skills, jumps should be equal.

Spins are much easier (as a rule) than jumps, so somehow making spins equal to jumps (I assume you mean in individual value, since there are only three spins in a free skate versus seven jumps) wouldn't be especially accurate.  Skating skills, meanwhile, aren't an element, they're a program component, so you can't really make one-to-one comparisons there.

Elite skaters already work to improve all their elements. Nobody who is a contender wants to leave points on the table.

Finlandia so far:

Their second free skate jump is just a 2S for the moment, but Richard Gauthier has figured out how to get Lubov to land the 3T three times in a row so far (counting their summer competition; including once in combination), so he's already a miracle worker.

My favourite junior pair are on their way to conquering seniors.  Understandably, the performance is a bit of a work in progress with the new short program (the free is a repeat), but that tech is crazy.  Their free skate base value was over 60 TES, which is higher than anybody had at Worlds last year.

I've come to really like this new Finnish (part-Japanese) team, though they had a freak fall here; this program is very fun.  And strangely, the only Lin-Manuel Miranda we've heard so far in this Broadway-themed RD; I was expecting at least one Hamilton program.

Yuhana Yokoi finally learned how to do a short program, after all of last season tanking there and then have an awesome free skate that moved her up, but not enough to be a real contender.

[Darknight]

20 hours ago, displayname said:

Well, Medvedeva is the older athlete.

19 is older?  Evgenia was taught by Eteri. She has been with Eteri since she was 6 or 7 years old.  Alina wasn't taught by Eteri until 12/13 years old and got her technique elsewhere. 

That's why Alena has good skating skills she was taught by another coach. Eteri hand picks her skaters now. They come from different coaches or they're taught by different coaches. She has young skaters clawing at her door. 

[Darknight]

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

Spins are much easier (as a rule) than jumps, so somehow making spins equal to jumps (I assume you mean in individual value, since there are only three spins in a free skate versus seven jumps) wouldn't be especially accurate.  Skating skills, meanwhile, aren't an element, they're a program component, so you can't really make one-to-one comparisons there.

Elite skaters already work to improve all their elements. Nobody who is a contender wants to leave points on the table.

Finlandia so far:

Their second free skate jump is just a 2S for the moment, but Richard Gauthier has figured out how to get Lubov to land the 3T three times in a row so far (counting their summer competition; including once in combination), so he's already a miracle worker.

My favourite junior pair are on their way to conquering seniors.  Understandably, the performance is a bit of a work in progress with the new short program (the free is a repeat), but that tech is crazy.  Their free skate base value was over 60 TES, which is higher than anybody had at Worlds last year.

I've come to really like this new Finnish (part-Japanese) team, though they had a freak fall here; this program is very fun.  And strangely, the only Lin-Manuel Miranda we've heard so far in this Broadway-themed RD; I was expecting at least one Hamilton program.

Yuhana Yokoi finally learned how to do a short program, after all of last season tanking there and then have an awesome free skate that moved her up, but not enough to be a real contender.

I just think either they should make everything equal or split the judging panel in half. Spins might be easier than jumps but something should be done so that skaters don't just focus on jumps

. Judges should be split. One for PCS one for tech, but the ISU shot this idea down fast. It's like skating doesn't have rules just a guide that judges choose not to follow and want to see their favorites win. I don't care if a skater is from Russia or Japan. Just judge their skating without the politics. 

Liza getting a 0 on her lutz is a joke. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Darknight

[Darknight]

Eteri and the judges really did Evgenia a disservice by not fixing her technique or calling her out for it But why would she? She was winning with it and was never called out for it. She won Gold medals and world records for it. Now they're calling her out. I remember her saying when she moved to Canada, she didn't realize how far behind she was. 

It still pisses me off the judges called out Mao for her technique to the point she had to relearn everything but they allow others to get away with it. 

This is why coaches should make sure their skaters have the right technique to begin with. Don't take shortcuts. Proper technique  also prevents injuries. The judges can easily call you out and the system can change. What if next season the judges( highly unlikely) start calling out "quads". Most men and ladies wouldn't make the podium. 

[Darknight]

On 10/11/2019 at 6:23 PM, Ruby Gillis said:

I think figures could be interesting in the youtube age.  They wouldn't need to show it as part of the main broadcast.  Cameras on the skate blades?  Curling seems to be popular because it's slow and soothing.  Seeing people trace figures could have similar appeal.  

Yeah, who knows what will happen with quads?  Tursynbayeva is currently injured.  Shcherbakova broke her leg a few years ago.  With what we hear about Eteri's daily weigh-ins and not letting Zagitova drink water at Worlds, nutrition is not a high priority.  Injuries seem inevitable.  

Alena Kanysheva?? Spelling? Also, learning a quad was injured and missed the junior grand prix. I'm worried about her upcoming quadstars. 

I can't lie, I love watching figures. Sadly, figures will never come back because skating is now a jumping competition with bad technique. 

[doodlebug]

8 hours ago, Darknight said:

Alena Kanysheva?? Spelling? Also, learning a quad was injured and missed the junior grand prix. I'm worried about her upcoming quadstars. 

I can't lie, I love watching figures. Sadly, figures will never come back because skating is now a jumping competition with bad technique. 

And isn't that the bottom line?  It would be so much easier to accept the jumpfest that skating has become if the majority of those jumping didn't have terrible technique to boot.  It has taken a lot of the beauty out of the sport.

[Jeddah]

On 10/11/2019 at 4:03 PM, Darknight said:

I just want to say this. Seeing Simone Biles and other gymnasts in their 20s performing is amazing. Simone is 22 and still doing great things. 

Simone pushes the sport forward by doing new skills, which I love. It’s very different from figure skating where somebody does something ground breaking and fans crap all over their achievements by complaining how the sport has changed too much.

[SeanC]

Kostornaia finally debuts the triple Axel in competition, after a few years of speculation about when/if it would happen.

[Ruby Gillis]

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

Kostornaia finally debuts the triple Axel in competition, after a few years of speculation about when/if it would happen.

I was very impressed how she sold that stupid Twilight program.  The dripping blood on the dress was ridiculous.  Her performance was great though!  

I felt bad for Tuktamysheva though.  I don't think the gap between them should have been so large.  Her jumps have height, trajectory, and correct edges and she's not getting high GOE.  

[Mellowyellow]

5 hours ago, Jeddah said:

Simone pushes the sport forward by doing new skills, which I love. It’s very different from figure skating where somebody does something ground breaking and fans crap all over their achievements by complaining how the sport has changed too much.

I don't follow gymnastics but does Simone get crap for all her game changing new skills?

Cuz the amount of crap the quad girls get for their quads is astounding. 

To me they're out there learning new jumps and trying to land them yet even when they do land a hard jump it gets picked apart like they've committed the most evil crime against skating. 

I've had people jump on and try to fight with me about how awful Alysa's jumps are when all I've done is leave Alysa a congratutory message for doing a great job. It's madness really. All these bitter arm chair critics. I don't see why they just don't want YouTube clips of the old days if the new skating offends them so much.

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

I don't follow gymnastics but does Simone get crap for all her game changing new skills?

Cuz the amount of crap the quad girls get for their quads is astounding. 

To me they're out there learning new jumps and trying to land them yet even when they do land a hard jump it gets picked apart like they've committed the most evil crime against skating. 

I've had people jump on and try to fight with me about how awful Alysa's jumps are when all I've done is leave Alysa a congratutory message for doing a great job. It's madness really. All these bitter arm chair critics. I don't see why they just don't want YouTube clips of the old days if the new skating offends them so much.

The difference for me is that the quality of Simone's new moves is there, too.  She maintains posture, position, stretch and speed and her triple twists are better than most other gymnasts doubles.  I cannot say that for most of the young women doing quads in figure skating.  They barely leave the ice and they muscle their way through the rotations landing on sloppy edges in many cases.  It doesn't appeal aesthetically to me.  Simone looks easy and natural out there.  The various Russian skaters doing quads look tight and stilted as they run through their programs with no apparent joy in what they're doing.

One look at Simone's face and you can see she enjoys the moves themselves, it is not just about the medals and recognition.  That doesn't seem to be the mindset of the Russian skaters who look terrified that they won't win

[Jeddah]

57 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I don't follow gymnastics but does Simone get crap for all her game changing new skills?

FIG undervalued her new dismount, but they seem to be the only ones who didn’t think it was badass! It’s not like figure skating. Fans are actually happy for athletes who accomplish new things.

[Jillibean]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The difference for me is that the quality of Simone's new moves is there, too.  She maintains posture, position, stretch and speed and her triple twists are better than most other gymnasts doubles.  I cannot say that for most of the young women doing quads in figure skating.  They barely leave the ice and they muscle their way through the rotations landing on sloppy edges in many cases.  It doesn't appeal aesthetically to me.  Simone looks easy and natural out there.  The various Russian skaters doing quads look tight and stilted as they run through their programs with no apparent joy in what they're doing.

One look at Simone's face and you can see she enjoys the moves themselves, it is not just about the medals and recognition.  That doesn't seem to be the mindset of the Russian skaters who look terrified that they won't win

I think there’s also a difference in that if Simone doesn’t perform the skill the way it should be performed, she gets dinged, same as anyone else would. However, she also doesn’t perform moves she’s not fully capable of doing a hundred percent correctly, so she’s on more than she’s off. I think a lot of the quad frustration comes from people who see that they’re not being performed correctly but are still getting huge numbers, meaning it’s more worthwhile to put together what could appear to be a passable quad, even if it’s not actually great, than it is to do another skill really well. Although I understand the frustration with FIG’s scoring of Simone’s beam dismount, I also think they’re doing something a lot of people have called for in figure skating—devaluing something they believe it would be dangerous for people to attempt to discourage people from training it. It just really sucks for Simone that she happens to be the only person in the history of the world who can execute that move safely and won’t receive credit for it because everyone knows that no one else could or should do it.

In other news, I have to agree that Chock and Bates’ new free dance is a little...uncomfortable. 

[displayname]

On 10/13/2019 at 10:51 AM, Darknight said:

19 is older?  Evgenia was taught by Eteri. She has been with Eteri since she was 6 or 7 years old.  Alina wasn't taught by Eteri until 12/13 years old and got her technique elsewhere. 

I don't think so. Zagitova's own technique is awful. She's a physically stronger person than Medvedeva, which is helping her. Medvedeva's jumps really started to give way when she got injured (which coincided with a growth spurt). It was probably never going to happen for her with Eteri at her age to retrain with that technique. You can now see how she's looking stronger, and accordingly is adjusting her tehcnique to carry herself across the ice more effortlessly. Zagitova's jumps also started to give way last season -- exactly again when she had an injury coinciding with a growth spurt. The only difference was age (and greater physical strength).

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Cuz the amount of crap the quad girls get for their quads is astounding. 

To me they're out there learning new jumps and trying to land them yet even when they do land a hard jump it gets picked apart like they've committed the most evil crime against skating. 

Simone Biles, more often than not, uses relatively good technique on her tumbling, performs with joy, and has great aesthetics to her gymnastics overall. The amount of crap is laid onto the quad girls because their technique is bad, and yet the judges reward it. Most don't have anything personal against the skaters, although some make it so. Proper technique not only prevents injuries, it also gives a jump the best possible aesthetics -- ballon is important to achieve in ballet for a leap to look good, and equally in a figure skating jump. You can compare the way they jump even their triples with Midori Ito - she had a better 3A than any girl currently attempting one, too.

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I don't see why they just don't want YouTube clips of the old days if the new skating offends them so much.

Because there are skaters they do like, who don't get credit for what they do in favour of poor technique.

7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The various Russian skaters doing quads look tight and stilted as they run through their programs with no apparent joy in what they're doing.

I do think there's joy, but when the overall skating is so laboured, it's hard to come through. Scherbackova is rather talented for instance.

Edited October 14, 2019 by displayname

[Mellowyellow]

25 minutes ago, displayname said:

Because there are skaters they do like, who don't get credit for what they do in favour of poor technique.

More often than not the competition results are spot on though.

I love Rika to bits but she botched up Worlds last year and Alina rightly won.

I think Rika is being dinged in PCS but she did win the Autumn Classic.

People act like their fav was going to win had they not been robbed when in reality aside from the Yuna/Adelina debacle the right person always wins.

Just makes them look crazy when they go screaming at Alysa for her bad technique when she rightly won anyway.

[displayname]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

More often than not the competition results are spot on though.

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

People act like their fav was going to win had they not been robbed when in reality aside from the Yuna/Adelina debacle the right person always wins.

This is just not true. There have been several, several bad results over the years, across all disciplines. It definitely didn't just begin at Sochi. I don't blame people for thinking there's something fishy going on when FS is one of the fishiest sports around. As a consequence, I also don't blame people for latching on to the most verifiable thing -- jump technique.

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

This is just not true. There have been several, several bad results over the years, across all disciplines. It definitely didn't just begin at Sochi. I don't blame people for thinking there's something fishy going on when FS is one of the fishiest sports around. As a consequence, I also don't blame people for latching on to the most verifiable thing -- jump technique.

I don't watch anything else besides ladies and mens FS so can't comment on that.

But the competitions I've seen from the 2018 Olympics onwards seem to have been fair (didn't watch the mens Olympics 2018 so not sure what went on there).

[Ruby Gillis]

On 10/12/2019 at 7:55 PM, SeanC said:

I've come to really like this new Finnish (part-Japanese) team, though they had a freak fall here; this program is very fun.  And strangely, the only Lin-Manuel Miranda we've heard so far in this Broadway-themed RD; I was expecting at least one Hamilton program.

Yuhana Yokoi finally learned how to do a short program, after all of last season tanking there and then have an awesome free skate that moved her up, but not enough to be a real contender.

I think Hamilton is probably too difficult to choreograph dances to?   Would like to see it tried though or something to Hadestown next season.  

Loved Yokoi's program!  What music is that?  It built to the that ending.  She really sold it well.  It was fun to see her go from her performance face to her fierce competitor face after the music finished.   

[KittenPokerCheater]

My opinions when it comes to ladies skating:

It does not seem like any of the ladies) skaters skate with much joy.  Especially the russians, who seem to have a Marta Karolyi style coach of the win-at-any-cost.

I think most of the girls who are jumping quads are pretty young and haven't had their growth spurt yet.  I would rather see 17+ women skate

I think the judges are not calling rotation/edge calls

I would love to see more than jumps.  They are awesome, but even if they are not as difficult, I'd love to see more spins/footwork- make those a requirement for the programs ti vary things up.

I'd love it if they would bring back figures- we don't have to watch them (unless they are online somewhere).

[annzeepark914]

21 hours ago, Jeddah said:

Simone pushes the sport forward by doing new skills, which I love. It’s very different from figure skating where somebody does something ground breaking and fans crap all over their achievements by complaining how the sport has changed too much.

Simone also does all of her other elements very well.  She's not just focusing on one mega move. Figure skating fans are complaining about ladies doing poorly executed quads followed by dull programs that lack good presentation and other challenging moves (e.g., change edge spirals). 

[displayname]

Definitely against bringing back figures.

[Jeddah]

6 minutes ago, displayname said:

Definitely against bringing back figures.

I cannot think of a faster way to kill the sport than reintroducing figures.

[SeanC]

5 hours ago, Ruby Gillis said:

I think Hamilton is probably too difficult to choreograph dances to?

"Helpless" seems like it's be pretty easy.

[Good Queen Jane]

Jason Brown did his short program two years ago to "The Room Where It Happens." He got high marks on it.

ETA: Sorry, I just realized you were talking about Dance programs, not just any skating program. Never mind.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Good Queen Jane

[ML89]

1 hour ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Jason Brown did his short program two years ago to "The Room Where It Happens." He got high marks on it.

It also sounded awful on TV and probably in the arena. Then again, I think that about a lot of the music people use - have they actually listened to it through the awful arena PA systems before they use it?

[healthnut]

Shoma Uno’s new short program is giving me so much life, I love the song choice, it’s a song I use for tribal yoga:

[displayname]

We FINALLY will be getting the senior grand prix on YouTube!

[SeanC]

Unless YouTube has given them some kind of immunity from copyright strikes, this will encounter the same problem the JGP livestreams have, though it's still an enjoyable system on the whole.

[displayname]

They might archive the individual programs like they do for the JGP.

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, displayname said:

They might archive the individual programs like they do for the JGP.

I expect they will, but that doesn't help when it's the program itself that is subject to the copyright strike.  So effectively, for many programs it will be impossible to see them unless you watch live, which is never going to be viable for a large chunk of the global fandom depending on where the event is.

[Darknight]

On 10/13/2019 at 1:12 PM, Jeddah said:

Simone pushes the sport forward by doing new skills, which I love. It’s very different from figure skating where somebody does something ground breaking and fans crap all over their achievements by complaining how the sport has changed too much.

Simone is amazing with amazing technique. She never puts in things she isn't 100 percent on. Heck she is getting better every year. She makes sure it's ready and she can do the skill. Gymnasts are also dinged if the skill isn't good. It's about execution too not just put in harder skills and hope you land them. Simone also paced herself which I appreciate a lot. I wish more coaches did this. 

What gets me upset about the quads is that the judges never ding them. They aren't executed well. This goes for ladies and men. They just throw the quad in with poor technique just for points. So many coaches and skaters don't care if a quad is a quad. Just throw it in and hope for the best.

Skating isn't just about jumps either. Where is the skating skills and artistry? Connection? Very few skaters today are the whole package. It's just about the jumps while lacking everything else. Some skaters can't even hold an edge. 

On 10/14/2019 at 6:50 PM, healthnut said:

Shoma Uno’s new short program is giving me so much life, I love the song choice, it’s a song I use for tribal yoga:

Shoma needs a coach asap. 

On 10/14/2019 at 12:04 PM, Jeddah said:

I cannot think of a faster way to kill the sport than reintroducing figures.

I definitely agree. I just think figures are something special. It takes so much control and hard work to do them. I already think the sport is dying out at least here. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Darknight

[Darknight]

Alena 3A was very good. Her skating skills are also good. The choreography and song mashup I can't get into. She does work with it but I think she deserves better music and choreography. 

[Darknight]

On 10/13/2019 at 10:10 AM, doodlebug said:

And isn't that the bottom line?  It would be so much easier to accept the jumpfest that skating has become if the majority of those jumping didn't have terrible technique to boot.  It has taken a lot of the beauty out of the sport.

Yes. I would appreciate the entire package. Good quality jumps, spins, skating skills, choreography. Judges actually dinging skaters for poor technique, skating skills, choreography. If the Eteri skaters(minus Alena)  and others like Liu had good technique, good skating skills, and good choreography I wouldn't complain. Heck, if the judges point out their flaws I wouldn't complain. But they're getting rewarded and praised for poor technique, no skating skills, and their scores are through the roof. And of course other coaches and skaters  see this and follow to keep up. So why even have PCS scores? Just make it a jumping competition. As a fan for many years since Katerina Witt's Carmen, I haven't connected to many skaters this generation. The connection isn't there. I do appreciate these young skaters trying but this isn't the way to go.