Figure Skating

[displayname]

TSL down because people kept sending him death threats. Won't be going to nationals either.

[BelleBrit]

Yep. Skating social media is just toxic right now. And while I’m sure that their intentions are good, I’m also not sure that the group of people aggressively harassing skaters for liking each other's posts about grieving (I think that people who are actively engaging with Twitter users and saying questionable things, like Chris Knierim or Grant Hochstein , are a different subject and more fair game to criticize ) are doing much to help de-escalate the situation and make the accusers feel any more safe or better about themselves either. Not that all skaters should get a pass for grieving, but ironically some of those same people who are targeting skaters and claiming moral superiority I had already discarded long ago for saying their own toxic and problematic things.  This has all unfolded so quickly over the last few days...

Jeeze, nationals should never be held in Detroit again.  I can only imagine what it would have been like if there was social media in the Tonya and Nancy days.  I hope that TSL can report the people who are making threats.

Edited January 23, 2019 by BelleBrit

[Mellowyellow]

oh Alina you poor baby. She's slowly falling apart. Just saw her SP in Euros.

For a while I really questioned whatever it was Zhenya was doing with Orser (I felt like they threw the baby out with the bathwater in regards to some of her strengths) but now seeing Alina slowly unravel it's painfully clear Zhenya would not have fared better either had she not tried something new.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[Darknight]

6 hours ago, displayname said:

TSL down because people kept sending him death threats. Won't be going to nationals either.

I'm not really a fan of TSL but this is ridiculous. Death threats? For speaking about the facts? The fact was John was being investigated. This is why many victims don't speak out and abusers get away with it for so long. We need to stop thinking someone we love and trust can't do something like this. Yes, it's shocking but we can't defend or hide it

 

 

 

And what happened with Alina?

 

Eteri's technique doesn't seem to work past 16/17 I guess. I never expected Alina to go down so fast like this. It's sad to watch. I'm worried her new senior won't last beyond a first season now. 

 

I'm trying to watch both Europeans and Nationals. Ugh. I'm going to miss Javi and Yuzuru together. They inspire and push each other in a loving way

 

 

Also, can the media stop hyping up Alyssa Lui and other young skaters in the novice and intermediate division. Just let them skate and improve with time. They're not the next Michelle Kwan. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Darknight

[displayname]

17 minutes ago, Darknight said:

I'm not really a fan of TSL but this is ridiculous. Death threats? For speaking about the facts? The fact was John was being investigated. This is why many victims don't speak out and abusers get away with it for so long. We need to stop thinking someone we love and trust can't do something like this. Yes, it's shocking but we can't defend or hide it

Worst part is that it is being speculated (or is it confirmed?) that some coaches and skaters sent them the threats.

 

@BelleBrit Yes, and it is so weird that I kept seeing people trying to "cancel" and "unstan" skaters, or else message them to "educate" them. I agree that Knierim and Hochstein have opened themselves to criticism though.

[ChicksDigScars]

39 minutes ago, BelleBrit said:

Jeeze, nationals should never be held in Detroit again.  I can only imagine what it would have been like if there was social media in the Tonya and Nancy days.  I hope that TSL can report the people who are making threats.

Yup. The thought also crossed my mind earlier that Detroit and the U.S. Figure Skating Championships are jinxed. 

 

The NY Times article linked on the previous page is very informative. And a lot less cold than Brennan's reporting on this. Although in reading the comment section, there was a discussion that people were confusing "Coughlin" and "Callahan," because they do rehash the Richard Callaghan accusations in the article. Obviously, skating FANS are not making that mistake, so casual drive by interest from non-skating fans, attracted by the sensationalism of a man taking his own life, are weighing in. 

[Mellowyellow]

hehe everyone seems to be hyped about Alyssa Lui and I am here waving my Bradie flag calmly! Go Bradie!!!!!

***

I am REALLY interested to see how Trusova and Shcherbakova will fare. I wish them all well but there was a time where I thought Alina had solid technique and that it would not go south. I couldn't imagine it going south because I didn't know much about skating and Yuna Kim was more than perfectly fine after 4 years. I thought Zhenya's issues stemmed from the bad technique she learned early on (someone pointed out the fling your body in the air thing she did and I could see it after watching LOTS of videos).

The younguns are now looking invincible but if anything Alina has made me wonder how all these kids will hold up.

I also wonder how Rika will hold up as well in a few years. Right now she is quite the energetic jumping bean (I also love her presentation but that's just me). 

[displayname]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I couldn't imagine it going south because I didn't know much about skating and Yuna Kim was more than perfectly fine after 4 years. I thought Zhenya's issues stemmed from the bad technique she learned early on (someone pointed out the fling your body in the air thing she did and I could see it after watching LOTS of videos).

That was me. Yuna Kim had pristine technique. Zagi doesn't, and it is showing. It's the way she leads by her upper body instead of using her legs properly. 

[Mellowyellow]

7 minutes ago, displayname said:

That was me. Yuna Kim had pristine technique. Zagi doesn't, and it is showing. It's the way she leads by her upper body instead of using her legs properly. 

She doesn't seem to fling like Zhenya though! With Zhenya I saw it quite obviously after a bunch of vids.

So Alina uses her upper body to jump but not as badly as Zhenya's flinging?

ETA: Is it possible to grow all you need to and then still use upper body to jump once you settle on your new height and weight? Or does it only work when you are short and light?

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[displayname]

6 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Alina uses her upper body to jump but not as badly as Zhenya's flinging?

Last year she was better than last year Med, imo, but if you notice her 3S and 2A, even from last year, you'll notice that she doesn't take her legs through well enough to get the push. The force on her 2A especially comes from her upper body too much, and her 3S is spindly. Her 3T relies on spinning off the ice, too. She's just stronger than Med was, but the technique flaws are still there. She doesn't go into jumps with particularly great speed either, which affects it too.

 

I do find her 3lo combo impressive when she hits it properly, but her growth spurt (or injury, or both) has taken something away from her.

Edited January 23, 2019 by displayname

[BelleBrit]

Konstantinova's status in Russia always fascinates me. I thought that they would be so quick to discard her after last year's worlds.

[displayname]

4 minutes ago, BelleBrit said:

Konstantinova's status in Russia always fascinates me. I thought that they would be so quick to discard her after last year's worlds.

She has the TAT support :P

28 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

ETA: Is it possible to grow all you need to and then still use upper body to jump once you settle on your new height and weight? Or does it only work when you are short and light?

No? Physics!

[KittenPokerCheater]

TSL is getting death threats?  That's terrible!  I'm gutted on his behalf that he feels it is not safe to go.  People can be so mean snf thoughtless.  I hope the threats are/were reported. I hope he comes back.

I wonder if the woman from USA today is going, or if she has had to cancel too.

Edited January 23, 2019 by KittenPokerCheater

[HartofDixie]

http://www.globetrottingbyphiliphersh.com/home/2019/1/22/the-john-coughlin-story-tragic-for-all-involved-should-lead-to-more-than-finger-pointing

[carrier76]

I wonder if Chris Knierim and the other internet crazies are going to go after Phil Hersh now.

[Sew Sumi]

Where can I find what Chris and Grant said? Was it on Twitter, FB, or somewhere else?

[displayname]

11 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Where can I find what Chris and Grant said? Was it on Twitter, FB, or somewhere else?

Twitter.

[Darknight]

14 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

hehe everyone seems to be hyped about Alyssa Lui and I am here waving my Bradie flag calmly! Go Bradie!!!!!

***

I am REALLY interested to see how Trusova and Shcherbakova will fare. I wish them all well but there was a time where I thought Alina had solid technique and that it would not go south. I couldn't imagine it going south because I didn't know much about skating and Yuna Kim was more than perfectly fine after 4 years. I thought Zhenya's issues stemmed from the bad technique she learned early on (someone pointed out the fling your body in the air thing she did and I could see it after watching LOTS of videos).

The younguns are now looking invincible but if anything Alina has made me wonder how all these kids will hold up.

I also wonder how Rika will hold up as well in a few years. Right now she is quite the energetic jumping bean (I also love her presentation but that's just me). 

I watched a few videos of Alyssa. I'm not really into the hype. Well not yet. It seems like her dad is the one who is guiding and and is creating media buzz around her. She went to Brain Oser to work on her 3a and another coach to work on her quads. She has flaws in her skating and I hope she grows but creating all of this media buzz around her isn't good. Let her grow and skate for now. She isn't even on the JP circuit yet. I'm personally rooting for Starr and Mariah. 

 

 

It's a lot of things. Eteri's technique doesn't hold up.  On top of that they do so many repetitions. Every single day. That's not good for the body at all. Here, coaches limit how often a skater can jump. You can't keep doing triples and quads every single day for 8 hours and not get an injury. Your body was not made to do that. You just can't.  Alina has better technique than Evgenia but she also had flaws too. Both muscle their way through jumps and their programs. The main issue is with many Russian skaters especially Eteri is this, you have to change a skaters technique as they age and grow. You can't expect a skater to skate the same way every year when they're kids. Puberty is sometimes why some skaters quit. Body changes throw you off and it's harder to jump. These girls keep the same technique as they go through puberty and it does not work. You can't jump and skate the same way at 12 and 14 at 16 and 18. Your body changes. A coach should re work a skaters technique to deal with the changes. The issue is, this takes time. Look at Evgenia right now. I doubt Eteri would want to deal with that. She has younger skaters to deal with. 

 

I never expected Alina to deteriorate so fast. It's like after the Olympics she just deteriorated. Some of her current soon to be seniors are starting to have noticeable technique issues. Like Alena and her flat edge. 

 

It's harder to jump when you've gain weight and grew taller. Especially after puberty. Your center of gravity changes too.  Eteri depends on fast rotation and keeping them skinny and tiny. She picks who she wants. Maybe she even looks at the parents to get an idea how tall a skater will be and their body type. 

 

 

I'm worried Anna and Alexandra will get injured. Especially with a stress fracture. Rika, I read she is taking it slow and her coach only wants her to work on quads during off season. She limits how much she can jump and wants to focus on her 3a. I wonder how these girls will hold up but I actually have a bit of faith in Rika than the Eteri girls. I wish everyone would look at how much stress these young girls are under instead of trying to push quads and push them to always win,win win. At what cost? 

 

 

Wow, I tried to look for TSL and it is gone. I hate this. This is why victims refuse to speak up because they're shamed and  bullied. Reporters have a job. They report. That's their job. Literally. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Darknight

[annzeepark914]

This makes me mad--that TSL is now off the internet and Dave won't be at Nationals. Who the heck are these cretins, sending death threats to Dave , Christine, etc., + the accusers? Is there any way to out these death threaters? They need to be outed.

[SeanC]

There wasn't really any discussion of Canadian Nationals here, but in brief, they were held in Saint John this year, and I was able to attend since I live in PEI.  Going to Saint John may not have been the best idea in other ways, because of the relatively low attendance due to it being a smaller population center and less accessible to people from outside the Maritimes, but it facilitated my going there, so I'll call that a win.

Anyway, it was a ton of fun, and featured some really solid competition.  Men and ice dance, especially, but the pairs event proved much better than I had feared.  In terms of future prospects, I'm really excited to see where Justine Brasseur (Isabelle's niece) and her new partner go when they've had longer than a year or so in training.  They've got a genuinely huge triple twist, already the best of any North American pairs team other than the Knierims.

Ladies is a bit of a work in progress, and Gabby Daleman's free skate was a heartbreaker, but I really liked Alaine, Aurora, and Veronik (glad to see her back and on the podium again, after she had to miss SCI and basically missed the last two seasons).

Fournier Beaudry and Sorensen made a big impression in their nationals debut.

[CeeBeeGee]

Can somebody explain to me why they thought Alina's short at Euros was so bad? I watched it on YouTube and it looked pretty clean to me. What am I missing?

[displayname]

2 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Can somebody explain to me why they thought Alina's short at Euros was so bad? I watched it on YouTube and it looked pretty clean to me. What am I missing?

Don't think it was bad. People are reacting to her regress in skills from last season.

[healthnut]

I’m so frustrated about the hate directed at TSL and Christine Brennan. I left a thank you comment on their video Sunday and I had at least two trolls reply they were murderers and single handedly responsible for JC’s suicide. It’s absurd.  Can’t enjoy nationals or Europeans. 

[annzeepark914]

3 hours ago, healthnut said:

I’m so frustrated about the hate directed at TSL and Christine Brennan. I left a thank you comment on their video Sunday and I had at least two trolls reply they were murderers and single handedly responsible for JC’s suicide. It’s absurd.  Can’t enjoy nationals or Europeans. 

We've got some real sick puppies out amongst us these days.  I'll be watching Nationals and hope there won't be much talk about Coughlin (we know how TV folks can go on and on ad nauseum about "tragedies").

[Darknight]

5 hours ago, healthnut said:

I’m so frustrated about the hate directed at TSL and Christine Brennan. I left a thank you comment on their video Sunday and I had at least two trolls reply they were murderers and single handedly responsible for JC’s suicide. It’s absurd.  Can’t enjoy nationals or Europeans. 

This is so sad. John killed himself. Nobody killed him. Seriously, I can't believe someone would do this crap. Death threats? Is the skating community similar to gymnastics? Lying and hiding crap for reputation and medals? 

 

I hope USA figure skating makes a statement. I read they require minors to travel with another adult with their coach.

I can't even enjoy Javi right now because if what's going on. 

[stet]

And it’s hard to enjoy Javi (or rather, Javi’s farewell) since it appears the judges are holding him down because this is his last competition. And he’s pretty much been saying that after the SP. (I’m certainly enjoying this never-seen salty side of him.)

But while questionable judging is not as despicable as sexual abuse and death threats, it’s yet another reason why I can’t follow this sport consistently - none of this is good for my mental health.

[annzeepark914]

1 hour ago, Darknight said:

This is so sad. John killed himself. Nobody killed him. Seriously, I can't believe someone would do this crap. Death threats? Is the skating community similar to gymnastics? Lying and hiding crap for reputation and medals? 

 

Oh yes, definitely it's going on.  I remember Kristi Yamaguchi talking about protecting her skates at all times at competitions (and this was back in the 80's/early 90's).  Some skaters had their skates damaged (enough so they couldn't compete).  And as for death threats, Ashley Wagner received her share from the Gracie Gold fans back when her LP allowed her to beat GG at Nationals (2013 I believe). 

Edited January 24, 2019 by annzeepark914

[displayname]

1 hour ago, stet said:

And it’s hard to enjoy Javi (or rather, Javi’s farewell) since it appears the judges are holding him down because this is his last competition. And he’s pretty much been saying that after the SP. (I’m certainly enjoying this never-seen salty side of him.)

Holding him down on what? His PCS deserved to be lower than Kolyada's, the GOE on the quad combo deserved to be lower, the GOE on his spins and steps in general deserved to be lower. He didn't even get the a total of -GOE on his 4S that is deemed to be mandatory for skaters of less than his reputation even though it was called. I might not agree with the call, but it really was barely rotated, and the benefit of doubt on jump rotation no longer exists. I don't hold his being salty against him, the judges do deserve to be called out more often, but the reasons for his saltiness are nonsense.

Edited January 24, 2019 by displayname

[stet]

Mikhail deserved to be first, for sure, and I’m sure Javi would agree. The argument seems to be that Samarin was overscored. 

[displayname]

1 minute ago, stet said:

Mikhail deserved to be first, for sure, and I’m sure Javi would agree. The argument seems to be that Samarin was overscored. 

No, I'm just saying that Javi wasn't "held down". All that happened was, in a slew of overscoring, his 4S being called pushed him down. Everything else was par for course.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I would have put Javi in second place, but I am not a judge so I must have missed something.

And in light of the threats to TSL and Christine Brennan, it has tainted my enjoyment of these competitions. :(  Death threats are never acceptable.

[specialj67]

Watching the US pairs short is tough, given what’s been happening in the skating world this past week. Apparently a number of skaters are wearing Kansas City Chiefs hats in honor of John Coughlin? That’s what I gleaned from the commentators on the NBC Sports stream, anyway. It fills me with a lot of mixed up, complicated emotions. 

[annzeepark914]

I missed what was said about Coughlin at the start of pairs as I was on the phone. Wow...so far our pairs teams aren't looking so good. 

[Darknight]

I can't lie I like Kolyada. I wish he could work with RAF full time since he's already taking advice from him. He is definitely bringing something to Russian men skating. 

 

I will miss Yuzuru and Javi training together 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Darknight

[specialj67]

18 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

I missed what was said about Coughlin at the start of pairs as I was on the phone. Wow...so far our pairs teams aren't looking so good. 

To be fair, none of the teams in the first 2 groups are national medal contenders. It should hopefully get better with the group warming up now and the final group after that. 

[Sew Sumi]

Well, the Knierims bombed, opening the door for any number of couples to walk through. 

[specialj67]

Just finished watching the men’s SP from Euros, and I have to say, I’m very impressed with how well Javi did considering he hasn’t competed in nearly a year. On a personal taste level, I’d put him above Samarin, but I can’t argue the dings in his technical score.

 

Also? Where has THIS Kolyada been for much of the season?! I hope he brings it just as much in the free. He truly is one of the best in this discipline when he skates to his potential.

[healthnut]

Well Liu landed her triple axel cleanly. Her routine is very juvenile in my opinion, but good for her. 

[Guest]

Alyssa Liu did really well. 

This whole Coughlin situation is a dark cloud over the competition and the sport. I am sickened, and hope an investigation is completed.

[annzeepark914]

I'm glad Bradie won the SP & hope she also surpasses Liu in the LP.  Alyssa just looked juniorish compared w/ Bradie, Mariah & Amber despite landing that triple axel.  Looking forward to the LP tomorrow night!

[Tippi]

I loved Bradie's SP.  The music to this program is some of the best (or, I should say, my favorite) this year.  I think fierce and edgy work better for her than princessy.

Liked Alysa, Mariah, and Amber.  Wish that Ting would have hit her jumps.  I really enjoy her balletic style.

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, specialj67 said:

Also? Where has THIS Kolyada been for much of the season?! I hope he brings it just as much in the free. He truly is one of the best in this discipline when he skates to his potential.

He was suffering from sinusitis throughout the fall, leading to his hospitalization shortly before Russian Nationals.  It seems like he's better now.

Thrilled for Morgan and Vanessa winning the European pairs title (also the first French team to do that since 1932).

The US pairs short was impressive; everybody but the Knierims brought it, leading to the latter getting buried in seventh place.  One ordinal lower and they'd have been skating in the early flights that don't air in prime time.

I wasn't entirely sure what I thought about Bradie's short program when she debuted it at Autumn Classic, but I've come around on it.  Mariah's short program is awesome; shame about the UR.  Alysa obviously has enormous potential.

[Darknight]

I hope Alyssa's coach and her father won't push her too hard. Especially with her 3a and quads. I cringe at the injury Mirai had doing her 3a. 

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Alyssa Liu did really well. 

This whole Coughlin situation is a dark cloud over the competition and the sport. I am sickened, and hope an investigation is completed.

I agree. I just can't stop thinking about this whole mess while watching. USA fed need to take this seriously. 

[Mellowyellow]

Bradie's twizzle (excuse me if it's the wrong term) coming out of the triple flip is a thing of beauty. 

I respect her so much for really improving in leaps and bounds since the Olympics. I hope if she continues to do well she gets the credit and scoring she deserves internationally.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[displayname]

I find Bradie boring, but honestly, good for her.

[Chaser]

I’m happy for Alyssa Liu. I hope she does well in the FS, but I don’t want her to win. I’d prefer both Mariah and Bradie finish ahead. One because I think their skating warrants it and two because I think it would be better for Liu. 

Mariah’s program is my favorite short and I was bummed about that combo. 

I love that Bradie went for such a different style from last year. I was concerned that she would think she needed to repeat the Cinderella style this year. 

I thought Amber’s program was nice too but I was distracted by the costume. It was so pink!

[BelleBrit]

Yeah, Bradie is not my favorite, but there was pressure on her after Alysa's program, and not even Ashley or Gracie were ever dependable for clean shorts at nationals. It was great to see Alysa's triple axel, but honestly hoping that Bradie gets the title just because the USFS will go all bananas on Alysa if she wins...

I love Mariah's programs, but she's lucky that she did not get a downgrade on her combination (2 judges even had her ahead of Alysa). I think that Amber Glenn should be ahead of her, but I think the judges are cautious about how Amber will compete in the long, so they were reserved.

I didn't begrudge skaters their Michael Coughlin tributes immediately following his passing, but it was a bit jarring to see so many of the pair skaters wearing the tribute hats for him.

Edited January 25, 2019 by BelleBrit

[Chaser]

What were the ribbons about?

[BelleBrit]

I read some gossip on Twitter that the ribbons were also a Coughlin thing...for "cyber bullying" (ugh!), but it hasn't been confirmed.

[alexa]

I don't think Alyssa's age is much of an advantage--I can't see that she will keep up the momentum when she is old enough to attend the senior events.  Not very many that rise so early at 13 do well later on.