Figure Skating

[carrier76]

The Shibs are not on that list. Interesting.

[ML89]

The Shibs are taking the season off.

re: Tanith. It seems they’re making her Andrea Joyce 2 (or really Terry Gannon 2 - color analyst turned multiple sport play by play host). Sometimes she’s good - she’s getting better as a host - and then sometimes she is so determined to get her point out she talks through the twizzle sequence in the Shibs’ “Fix You.”  But she’s definitely working to get better. 

[annzeepark914]

I'll take Tanith over T & J any day!  She's professional in her presentation (and that includes her actual appearance) so that she doesn't distract from the skating.  I thought Tanith did a great job at the O's (didn't see the need for Scott, but he IS beloved by a lot of folks).  Wish they'd used Ben Agosto with Tanith.  Now that would be a dynamic duo in commentating!

[Darknight]

On 4/11/2018 at 3:50 PM, iMonrey said:

To the best of my recollection, Olympic medal winners traditionally went on to compete at Worlds until around the late 1980s or early 1990s. Which - not coincidentally - is around the same time triple jumps became requirements for the ladies and triple axels and a quad became required elements for the men. So the trend of Olympic medalists skipping Worlds definitely coincided with the increased physical toll required of skaters. 

It's too bad, because since then I've come to regard World Champions in an Olympic year as "second tier." So many of them most likely would never have won a world championship if the top Olympic skaters had shown up that year. 

So yeah - it definitely takes something away from a World Championship to have it right after the Olympics when so many of the top skaters don't go.

I've always felt a big reason why American skaters cannot compete against the Russians or the Japanese is because they split their focus between training and school. Some of these Russian skaters train like dogs - it's all they have in their lives. Americans think they can do and have it all. You look at the Americans who have done well recently, like Evan Lycacek, and those are the ones who did nothing but train and skate. 

Also Russia has government funding we don't for sports like skating 

I wish Nathan the best of luck. I do hope he chooses to skate again in 2022 but it sounds like his family told him school is important. Sometimes you can't do too things at once but I hope he manages

[herbz]

Tanith was the best NBC commentator by a country mile in Pyeongchang. She could definitely work on not needing to fill every gap but I will take her identifying choctaw edges every time over Tara and Johnny apparently watching ice dance for the first time in their lives. She does make a very good commentating team with Agosto on the GP circuit, they should use them more. 

Skating will miss Patrick. Unless singles is to become nothing but  ugly crossover-ugly crossover-quad- ugly crossover- ugly crossover- 3A, there has to be room to reward this sort of virtuosity: 

 

(And for all the talk of Chanflation- he came 4th in Skating Skills at the Olympics. A nonsensical placement, anyone who has ever skated will tell you no active singles skater- and most of the dancers tbh- has such control over the blade) 

I’m still half expecting Aljona to rock up to Beijing with a new partner in tow! Congrats to Bruno and Sophie. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

re: Tanith. It seems they’re making her Andrea Joyce 2 (or really Terry Gannon 2 - color analyst turned multiple sport play by play host). Sometimes she’s good - she’s getting better as a host - and then sometimes she is so determined to get her point out she talks through the twizzle sequence in the Shibs’ “Fix You.”  But she’s definitely working to get better. 

Shespeakstoofastanddoesn'ttakeabreath.  She needs to take a pointer from Nastia Liukin in gymnastics.  Bastia shuts up during most performances and adds the interesting insights WHEN THEY SHOW THE REPLAYS.  Every time the host tries to ask her about HER experiences during a performance, she answers very quickly (I think she is annoyed when they focus on her, AL TRAUTWIG.) 

Sorry, but Tanith ruined a lot of my favorite world performances with her inane comments and her desperate attempt to keep up with Tara and Johnny.  Most of the time, Tara and Johnny answered quickly and refocused Chatty Tanny ON THE PERFORMER.  

I think she's getting a big ego and will get worse, not better unless there is a real awareness at the executive level that viewers want to see THE PERFORMANCES WITHOUT THE ENDLESS YAMMERING.  Look back at prior Olympics when the commentators realized the performers were the stars, not the commenters.  

[BelleBrit]

Ok, real talk.  Credit where credit is due to Nathan's team for his success/winning worlds this year...but I'm a bit surprised that Rafael Arturian has been able to poach the young international talent pool to the extend that he has the past month?  Now in addition to coaching Marin Honda next season, he will be taking on Eunsoo Lim of South Korea.  I feel like his stock kind of fell this season compared to last year, with Nathan not medaling in the individual event, Ashley not making the Olympic team, and Mariah Bell really failing to live up to some up the hype she got early last season when she moved to him.  Heck, even Adam just barely made the Olympic team this year after his nationals performance (which now seems so long ago, since he's become such a #star).  Hell, I still want to know why Raf thought it was such a good idea for Ashley to threepeat Moulin Rouge this year. 

[displayname]

3 hours ago, BelleBrit said:

I'm a bit surprised that Rafael Arturian has been able to poach the young international talent pool to the extend that he has the past month? 

Me too. Truth be told... I am not convinced Raf is that good of a coach apart from stabilising jump technique. And he isn't the best at that either -- Hanyu and Jin are both better jumpers than Chen. He definitely isn't the best at nurturing the artistic side, though he still isn't, you know, Tom Z. Shoma Uno is a better quality skater than Chen. So... What we really have is a skater who has been turned into a jack of all trades, master of none, by Raf's coaching, and a couple of skaters who needed severe help with jumps and were able to return to competition, but saw stagnation in the rest of their skating.

That said, Marin Honda going to Raf makes sense. Pretty bad jumps, but her skating skills are already really good for her age, so if they stagnate, she could still pull ahead of competition with what she has with better jumps.

Eunsoo Lim? Weird choice. She could be the next Korean superstar, but her deficiencies are more all-around. Not convinced that just jumping would do her good.

4 hours ago, herbz said:

(And for all the talk of Chanflation- he came 4th in Skating Skills at the Olympics. A nonsensical placement, anyone who has ever skated will tell you no active singles skater- and most of the dancers tbh- has such control over the blade) 

 

This was so foolish. Also, Nathan Chen almost equaled that mark in 2018 Worlds. Only Hanyu's score made sense because he was cleaner (though maybe really not). Shoma Uno? Javier Fernandez? Really? But then, PCS is just the ordinal system in disguise.

Edited April 19, 2018 by displayname

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, herbz said:

I’m still half expecting Aljona to rock up to Beijing with a new partner in tow! Congrats to Bruno and Sophie. 

Nah, if Bruno retires, Aliona will begin a new career as a singles skater and arrive in Beijing with a six-quad free program (including two quad axels — in combination!).

Edited April 19, 2018 by SeanC

[herbz]

So it would appear that Hayawek and Baker are indeed off to Montreal (though it was fairly obvious when they started popping up in Gabriella’s Instagram comments). Sigh. I can only cross all my fingers that they don’t end up  like Paul and Islam.

[BelleBrit]

10 hours ago, displayname said:

Me too. Truth be told... I am not convinced Raf is that good of a coach apart from stabilising jump technique. And he isn't the best at that either -- Hanyu and Jin are both better jumpers than Chen. He definitely isn't the best at nurturing the artistic side, though he still isn't, you know, Tom Z. Shoma Uno is a better quality skater than Chen. So... What we really have is a skater who has been turned into a jack of all trades, master of none, by Raf's coaching, and a couple of skaters who needed severe help with jumps and were able to return to competition, but saw stagnation in the rest of their skating.

LOL...I don't even know about the stabilizing technique part...I just think it's funny how calculated he sounds in his interviews when he is talking about his own skaters, he always seems to want to drag them a bit and not take any responsibility towards when they aren't doing as well (i.e., like his post-Olympic interview about Nathan where he talks about his family/kind of blames his family for screwing with his layout).  Of course, each athlete is responsible for their own destiny, but....

One thing I did read this season somewhere was a note about Ashley possibly "assisting" Raf this summer?  I would pay to see a reality show consisting of Ashley assisting Rafael. I also find it strange that he said in the latest ice network article that he hasn't discussed their futures with Adam and Ashley at all yet, but I'm guessing he sees where the wind is blowing/that he will have a lot of extra time to take on talent.  I'm still sad about Vivan Le getting injured after showing so much promise early on, I'm afraid of the same thing happening with Alysa Liu. 

[annzeepark914]

4 hours ago, herbz said:

So it would appear that Hayawek and Baker are indeed off to Montreal (though it was fairly obvious when they started popping up in Gabriella’s Instagram comments). Sigh. I can only cross all my fingers that they don’t end up  like Paul and Islam.

What happened to Paul and Islam?

I just hope H/B don't end up skating all those OTT dramatic and/or sexy programs that the Montreal group seems to specialize in.

[HartofDixie]

5 hours ago, herbz said:

So it would appear that Hayawek and Baker are indeed off to Montreal (though it was fairly obvious when they started popping up in Gabriella’s Instagram comments). Sigh. I can only cross all my fingers that they don’t end up  like Paul and Islam.

The Skating Lesson had mentioned in one of their recaps that they asked to go to Montreal. With the Shibs out next season they could easily jump over Chock/Bates and become the US #2 team but there are so many teams in Montreal now and I doubt H/D are happy about another US team there.

Just posted on TSL's twitter page:

Edited April 19, 2018 by HartofDixie
Skating news

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, HartofDixie said:

Just posted on TSL's twitter page:

 

Marie-France wants that all-hers ice dance podium, and won’t stop until she gets it!

Jin doing that wouldn’t surprise me, either, if true.  China will be putting major pressure on to ramp up its program going into the Beijing Games.

Edited April 19, 2018 by SeanC

[HartofDixie]

Adam has truly made it.

http://time.com/collection/most-influential-people-2018/5217596/adam-rippon/

[ChicksDigScars]

And these:

 It's going to be awfully crowded in Montreal. Are Hawayek and Baker going to be the latest face grabbing, bodice ripping "slow burn" sexcapades on ice?  Not to mention being fifth or sixth priority up there. 

Pecking order:

1. Papadakis and Cizeron

2. Hubbell and Donahue

3. Lauriault and LeDuc

4. Smart and Diaz

5. Fournier Beaudry and Sorenson

6. Hawayek and Baker and possibly Chock and Bates

[herbz]

2 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

What happened to Paul and Islam?

I just hope H/B don't end up skating all those OTT dramatic and/or sexy programs that the Montreal group seems to specialize in.

They were a Canadian team with real talent and potential who got inexplicably buried in favour of Gilles and Poirier (I know those two have their fans here and I do find their programs very engaging but she has major technique issues that get overlooked. P/I were much more skilled as a team). In a last gasp attempt to curry some favour back and turn the tide they left DSC for Gadbois but their style did not suit them in the slightest and Marie France choreographed them a heinous program to Streisand that was panned by everyone- in the same year she choreographed To Build A Home for P/C, so heaven knows she’s more than capable. So, they got dropped at Canadian Nationals, knew the writing was on the wall anyway, and then Virtue and Moir announced their comeback so they retired. Such a waste. She was a especially gorgeous dancer. 

Hawayek and Baker have the same kind of lightness and fluidity to their work and are in a similar position in their country’s ranking. I want them to succeed. 

I do love Marie France and Patrice collecting every power player in the game. They’re seriously savvy. Chock and Bates though?! Detroit will be a wasteland. I expect they’ll get turned away though at this point- Montreal is too full. I’m not sure how much longer they can hold out if they can’t move because the international judges seemed poised to drop them.

Edited April 19, 2018 by herbz

[HartofDixie]

6 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

And these:

 It's going to be awfully crowded in Montreal. Are Hawayek and Baker going to be the latest face grabbing, bodice ripping "slow burn" sexcapades on ice?  Not to mention being fifth or sixth priority up there. 

Pecking order:

1. Papadakis and Cizeron

2. Hubbell and Donahue

3. Lauriault and LeDuc

4. Smart and Diaz

5. Fournier Beaudry and Sorenson

6. Hawayek and Baker and possibly Chock and Bates

I would move #5 to #3 as they are now Canadian.  Is Marina retiring?  If Chock/Bates want to continue and the Shibs being out why wouldn't they go to her first?

[herbz]

36 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

I would move #5 to #3 as they are now Canadian.  Is Marina retiring?  If Chock/Bates want to continue and the Shibs being out why wouldn't they go to her first?

Hawayek and Baker are miles above Smart and Diaz. Miles. FB/S are better than them too. H/B would be 3rd on that list of teams. 

If both W/P and G/P both continue through the quad, Montreal has all 3 teams that will likely be competing for the third Canadian spot. 2021 will be a bloodbath.

I’ve no idea what is happening with Marina. TSL are also saying that Igor and Pasquale might combine with Krylova now in Russia (which makes a whole lot of sense, Camerlengo is an excellent choreographer and Igor could use the injection of inspiration) and in that case I think C/B would be fine staying.

ETA: If all of this comes to pass, Carreira/Ponomarenko could end up the #1 US team actually training in the US under an Igor/Pasquale combo by the next Olympics (I expect they’ll go a good bit further in the end than the Parsons or McNamara/Carpenter) There’s one couple that won’t be shifting an inch. I do love the off season coaching merry-go-round. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by herbz

[displayname]

China is finally mining its gold mine with Jin. They deserve all the credit for his jump technique, and Orser will make him something incredible, if this happens.

Edited April 19, 2018 by displayname

[annzeepark914]

@Herbz:  Do you think that if Davis & White returned to competition (this is just an example), that their unique style of ice dancing could compete with (& beat) P/C and H/D today? I'm not liking this new trend in ice dance with the steamy sexuality and/or face clutching angst. But this seems to be the winning style (or is it because P/C and H/D are that fantastic technically and beating other skaters only because of that?)

[displayname]

4 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

But this seems to be the winning style (or is it because P/C and H/D are that fantastic technically and beating other skaters only because of that?)

I don't think they're that good? I think it's politicking. Don't get me wrong, they're very good (though I think both have issues of their own), but the gap between P/C and V/M should be nowhere near that close (in the Olys), when V/M are, simply put, incredible. I'm not well-versed in Ice Dance, but even I can see that they're far superior, and far better balanced in terms of their skills. That said, I do think P/C might be the best team left. Not technically, but definitely in terms of the routines they can pull off, and the connection they can share in their free programs. I do want them to try something new, though.

Edited April 19, 2018 by displayname

[herbz]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

@Herbz:  Do you think that if Davis & White returned to competition (this is just an example), that their unique style of ice dancing could compete with (& beat) P/C and H/D today? I'm not liking this new trend in ice dance with the steamy sexuality and/or face clutching angst. But this seems to be the winning style (or is it because P/C and H/D are that fantastic technically and beating other skaters only because of that?)

Davis and White had quite a few technical issues truthfully- Meryl especially. Her free leg was often visibly bent and she either missed or forced her edges a fair bit of the time. Charlie was the better of the two by a margin. H/D have a more solid technical foundation when it comes to the bladework but are much more limited in their lifts. I presume height is a factor there. But when Zach Donohue can keep upright, they’re getting the results right now based on the skating and not the style. 

What D/W had over others, other than impactful programs superbly suited to them- Marina is very good at her job- and Meryl’s excellent performance ability, was speed, but they didn’t really gain that through the knees quite the same way P/C (especially Cizeron) do so they didn’t create the same impression of ‘gliding’ that makes their particular lyrical style so effective. But then P/C have plenty of their own areas they could improve on technically too, which is why I’m so opposed to their scores being essentially maxed out.

Having just checked it, D/W’s PCS from Sochi still absolutely hold up with V/M and P/C in Pyeongchang. I don’t necessarily agree with the scores for all of those teams all of the time, but it would seem reasonable to assume that 2014 D/W doing their Scheherazade with the USFSA behind them would be up there today with the judges and getting high marks in the more subjective components where style preferences might come into play (even if they shouldn’t). And watching their show programs from the last few years there’s a pretty clear improvement in their artistry and projection and I don’t see why that couldn’t translate to competitive ice.

As ever, a huge part of ice dance is the politics. V/M earned every bit of the gold medal on merit, but you can still bet Skate Canada was pulling every string they had to ensure they weren’t screwed over. Gadbois is the centre du jour right now just as Canton was the quad before. Nobody can maintain that forever. In 2022 it’ll probably be something different again. Swings and roundabouts. That was much longer than intended, sorry! 

Edited April 19, 2018 by herbz

[Enero]

2 hours ago, displayname said:

China is finally mining its gold mine with Jin. They deserve all the credit for his jump technique, and Orser will make him something incredible, if this happens.

 

As I understand it, Jin is not moving to Orser, but he and his coach will be going to Canada to collaborate and learn to improve Jin’s packaging. 

I think this is a great strategy by China. Jin already has amazing jumps. He just needs to improve his expression, and he may need work on basic skating skills as well. Both of which, along with jump technique are Brian and team’s specialty.

I’m excited to see what comes of this partnership.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Enero

[displayname]

21 minutes ago, Enero said:

As I understand it, Jin is not moving to Orser, but he and his coach will be going to Canada to collaborate and learn to improve Jin’s packaging. 

I think this is great strategy by China. Jin already has amazing jumps, he just needs to improve his expression and he may need work on basic skating skills as well. Both of which along with jump technique is Brian and team specialty.

I’m excited to see what comes of this partnership.

Nothing's confirmed yet, and I think it's still perhaps in negotiation. Summer camp seems very likely for this season, at least. Orser usually asks his students' opinions about whom he should take on, and Yuzuru Hanyu is a friend of Jin, as far as I know, so that won't be a problem. I think they may look at the results this season, and make a permanent move. I don't know why his current coach is going with him, so we'll see. It might be for psychological support, for instance, though I doubt it's (just) that.

Edited April 19, 2018 by displayname

[Enero]

23 minutes ago, displayname said:

I don't know why his current coach is going with him, so we'll see. It might be for psychological support, for instance, though I doubt it's (just) that.

 

Perhaps to observe and learn? Whether this turns out to be just collaborative or Jin actually moves to Canada,I think he’ll have someone from the Chinese Federation accompanying him for various reasons. Honestly I’ll be shocked if they let Jin move there full time to train ala Hanyu. That doesn’t seem like the Chinese Federation’s MO when it comes to their skaters.

That said, there seems to be a desire to make changes that will result in better success moving forward. They most definitely have a strategy for their figure skating team for 2022. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by Enero

[displayname]

15 minutes ago, Enero said:

That doesn’t seem like the Chinese Federation’s MO when it comes to their skaters.

That seems to be changing, so I'm cautiously optimistic.

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

It's going to be awfully crowded in Montreal. Are Hawayek and Baker going to be the latest face grabbing, bodice ripping "slow burn" sexcapades on ice?  Not to mention being fifth or sixth priority up there. 

Pecking order:

1. Papadakis and Cizeron

2. Hubbell and Donahue

3. Lauriault and LeDuc

4. Smart and Diaz

5. Fournier Beaudry and Sorenson

6. Hawayek and Baker and possibly Chock and Bates

There's also Soucisse and Firus, who I'd say are a pretty important long-term investment for Marie-France et al.

[displayname]

6 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Are Hawayek and Baker going to be the latest face grabbing, bodice ripping "slow burn" sexcapades on ice?

Isn't the theme next season "colourful"?

[displayname]

11 hours ago, BelleBrit said:

One thing I did read this season somewhere was a note about Ashley possibly "assisting" Raf this summer?  I would pay to see a reality show consisting of Ashley assisting Rafael. I also find it strange that he said in the latest ice network article that he hasn't discussed their futures with Adam and Ashley at all yet, but I'm guessing he sees where the wind is blowing/that he will have a lot of extra time to take on talent.  I'm still sad about Vivan Le getting injured after showing so much promise early on, I'm afraid of the same thing happening with Alysa Liu. 

Didn't he throw shade by saying it was always difficult with her? And IDK what she'll assist with. Her SS and TR were quite poor, and her performance and interpretation was  very limited in range the last couple of seasons, give or take her 16-17 FS. Her spins were mediocre, her jumps were prone to UR... What even remains? She was very good with PR, though.

[herbz]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

Isn't the theme next season "colourful"?

Angst in bright costumes!

(I have no clue what ‘colourful’ is supposed to mean. It’s a sport, ISU, not an elementary school classroom)

[displayname]

18 hours ago, herbz said:

Angst in bright costumes!

The five stages of grief, with costume changes for each!

[displayname]

@herbz Hmmm, could you give us a breakdown of the SS of Uno, Chen, and Jin? I'd love to watch them develop over the next quad, and I want to know exactly what I can look for.

 

Also, isn't Papadakis just a differently packaged Meryl? I think I see a lot of similar problems.

Edited April 21, 2018 by displayname

[displayname]

Would 50 shades of grey count as 50 different colours?

Edited April 23, 2018 by displayname

[ChicksDigScars]

23 minutes ago, displayname said:

Would 50 shades of grey count as 50 different colours?

Dear God.....NO. Marie-France would use it and probably give it to Hubbell and Donahue (in the absence of Virtue and Moir).

[Good Queen Jane]

If you don't like the NBC coverage of US Figure Skating, you're out of luck until 2026. USFSA and NBC signed a new agreement.

[Maelstrom]

That’s really disheartening :( I’ve loved watching figure skating since I was a kid, but every year NBC manages to suck a little more joy out of it with their mindblowing  suckitude.

[displayname]

Well, T&J didn't, right?

[HartofDixie]

3 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

If you don't like the NBC coverage of US Figure Skating, you're out of luck until 2026. USFSA and NBC signed a new agreement.

Ugh!  At least they are putting skating on NBCSN and the Olympic channel so that we are not stuck with a 2 hour recap on NBC.  I really miss the ABC years of skating.

[annzeepark914]

6 hours ago, HartofDixie said:

Ugh!  At least they are putting skating on NBCSN and the Olympic channel so that we are not stuck with a 2 hour recap on NBC.  I really miss the ABC years of skating.

@HartofDixie: you and me both!  ABC's camera work was excellent (even when overseas...maybe they had real control over the "locals" camera work?) But it is nice to turn on NBCSN or the Olympic channel and catch a lot of skating that's ignored by regular NBC during its two hour recap (which is basically mens' & ladies' top skaters' performances--forget pairs and ice dance). But in the later days of ABC coverage, they did broadcast skating also on ESPN, and during the O's on TBS (I think).

[HartofDixie]

11 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

@HartofDixie: you and me both!  ABC's camera work was excellent (even when overseas...maybe they had real control over the "locals" camera work?) But it is nice to turn on NBCSN or the Olympic channel and catch a lot of skating that's ignored by regular NBC during its two hour recap (which is basically mens' & ladies' top skaters' performances--forget pairs and ice dance). But in the later days of ABC coverage, they did broadcast skating also on ESPN, and during the O's on TBS (I think).

I think they also aired some grand prix events and junior worlds on Lifetime!  Plus all the skating shows we would get across all 3 networks!

[boaty mcboatface]

Pairs news: Duhamel/Radford have officially retired, and Savchenko/Massot are doing Holiday on Ice Germany/Austria next year and will be taking a break from competing of unknown duration. This makes way too much sense for them: they are at the peak of their marketability and will get serious $$$, but the window for that is short and needs to be taken advantage of now. Plus it allows them to stay relatively local instead of wearing themselves out traveling halfway around the world all the time and taking Bruno too far from Baby Massot. 

 

The question is whether they ever come back again. Never say never when Aljona is involved, but I'd be surprised.  

[Jeddah]

 

So we can call it the Zagitova rule, right?

[displayname]

10 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

 

So we can call it the Zagitova rule, right?

This is so bad. Not just because of the targeting, but why limit the jumps in the second half? What if the jumps fit the music there perfectly? Maybe I misunderstand, though, maybe it's "only four jumps in the back-half can get the bonus".

[Jeddah]

13 minutes ago, displayname said:

This is so bad. Not just because of the targeting, but why limit the jumps in the second half? What if the jumps fit the music there perfectly? Maybe I misunderstand, though, maybe it's "only four jumps in the back-half can get the bonus".

I would think it means only 4 jumping passes get the bonus, but I don’t know. The ISU is probably just counting on people not doing more than 4 if they won’t get a bonus. 

I like Zagitova, and I didn’t mind the backloading. It did make for an exciting second half, especialy with the Don Quixote music.

Now I do think it’s ridiculous that people get a 10% bonus in the short program. That just seems silly for a two minute program. It doesn’t sound like they’re changing that though.

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I would think it means only 4 jumping passes get the bonus, but I don’t know. The ISU is probably just counting on people not doing more than 4 if they won’t get a bonus. 

Yeah, that’s probable.  Hell, the whole reason they introduced the bonus was presumably because they didn’t want to impose that sort of rigid requirement.

[Enero]

The change, if imposed, will affect those who have almost all of their jumping passes in the 2nd half. Of the top ladies I think Zagitova is the only one doing this. Everyone else has only 3-4 jumping passes in the 2nd half.

The men will be a different story. Hanyu, Uno, Chen, Jin etc. all have 5 jumping passes in the second half. Though I still don’t think it will negatively impact the program layouts , they’ll just have to move a jumping pass to the first half and put all of their hardest passes in the back half to maximize the bonus. Which really is what they’re already doing.

Now if they decide to shorten the long program as has been rumored for the men, this will present a challenge to try and pack in everything needed to win in less time.

[displayname]

They're trying to get a no-repeated-quads rule in, too. 

In effect, since Nathan's 4S and 3A aren't that stable... he would be on equal footing. All the other top guys have stable 3As and put two of them in their LPs, and each have 3 quads and one in the works. There's a lot to unpack here, because 4Lz, 4F, and 4Lo probably won't be backloaded. So that leaves the 4T and the 4S, and the two 3As for the men.

Edited April 27, 2018 by displayname

[Enero]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

They're trying to get a no-repeated-quads rule in, too. 

In effect, since Nathan's 4S and 3A aren't that stable... he would be on equal footing. All the other top guys have stable 3As and put two of them in their LPs, and each have 3 quads and one in the works. There's a lot to unpack here, because 4Lz, 4F, and 4Lo probably won't be backloaded. So that leaves the 4T and the 4S, and the two 3As for the men.

 

I don’t know about this. That’s one thing about this group of guys, they love to push this sport. So I think their next step will be putting their hardest quads in the back half of the program. Jin has a pretty stable 4Lutz. I think Shoma’s 4Flip is pretty “stable”  too as is Nathan’s. I can see with time them all adding these more difficult quads right after the half way mark. 

Zhou is already doing a 2nd 4Lutz in the back half of his LP. So I’d argue that he feels pretty comfortable with it. Hanyu had a pretty good 4Loop before his injury. So depending on how well he recovers he will likely bring it back and will no doubt up his game by including it in the back half of his LP if he deems it necessary. I don’t think he’ll bring back the 4Lutz because it was never stable and that’s what precipitated his injury before the Games.

My point, I don’t think these guys will be sitting on their laurels by keeping their hardest quads ie Lutz, Flip, Loop, in the first half. They’ll eventually start jumping them in the second half and in combination, which will up the ante (Jin already has a 4L/3T; Chen and Shoma does the 4F in combination). They’re all VERY young and thus will continue to push the sport with their athleticism. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Enero

[displayname]

@Enero

I really don't think so. If you notice, Chen, Jin, Uno, and Hanyu specifically put these jumps in the front end. It's not about stability at all with these jumps, it's the set up time, focus and the energy involved. Jin once tried a 4Lo in competition, and specifically put it in the first half, while moving his 3 jump combo to (pretty late in) the second half. IMO, that tells us about the kind of energy and focus involved there. With everything they do in the first half, I don't see these four shifting these jumps to the back half. 

 

...Well, except for Uno. He and Zhou, as far as I know, have similar problems on their jumps -- their jumps have "cheated" technique. For the quality of jumps they produce, it might be easier for them to backload, but they have chronic issues on their jumps, and have to rely on the tech panel to not call them out on them. Uno especially has much smaller quads than the remaining guys. Landing those won't take out as much energy as it would from a 4Lz Jin-style, or 4Lo Hanyu-style.

(Uno's quads almost all have issues. The only reason I would call them stable is because he can land them on a good day -- I think he always fell on his 4Lo this season.)

It's actually exactly why Zagitova is able to backload all her jumps. Her technique isn't the best -- she pre-rotates a lot on most, and then lands them barely rotated. It would be easier to be consistent on those, than say someone to do their jumps like Yuna Kim in the back-half.

Edited April 27, 2018 by displayname