Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[KenyaJ]

I don't think it matters that KC got less applause or not. This was already a brutal SDCC for her... I feel really bad. What with everyone calling Caity BC and DR calling Laurel Canary and her name not being written on that infamous whiteboard and just her character getting zero interest... Idk it doesn't feel right to me to just pile another thing on. 

 

I feel bad for her too. This certainly was not an ideal SDCC for her. But to me, it further proves how superfluous Laurel has been to this show since the beginning of Season 2. Laurel's no longer important in Oliver's life, and without a genuine connection to him, she's always going to feel like she's still on the canvas by default. Ironically, I feel like she could have been important to Oliver, if the writers had followed through with the "You catch 'em, I cook 'em" dynamic in "The Calm." But making her Black Canary ruined that. And BC gave her something to do, but so what? She's still not crucial to Oliver's story in any real sense. And yes, a lot of fans hate her less than they used to, but it mostly just means they're apathetic about her now, instead of thinking she's a useless blight on the show. There's still no real sense of passion for her among most fans. Even her hardcore fans seem to spend more time slagging Felicity, Oliver, and Olicity than talking about and promoting how great Laurel is. As a result, she continues to be relegated to the "Oh yeah, she's on the show too" position when there are cons and other events.

 

I know the people on the board who no longer watch Arrow but are planning to watch LoT don't want her on that show, but for the life of me, I don't understand why the EPs didn't move her there. It was the perfect opportunity to give Laurel/BC a fresh start, free of all the baggage from Arrow. She could have established BC on her own terms, separate and apart from Oliver. Also, I thought KC played really well off of BR in their brief scene together, and it could have been fun to see them have an adversarial/frenemy relationship. And it would have been a chance for Laurel and Sara to acknowledge that their previous sisterly relationship left a lot to be desired, and rebuild it from the ground up. Potentially, she could have been the leading lady she was promised on that show; beyond the credits, she's never going to be that on Arrow again.

 

IDK, it seems like that could have been the perfect solution to everything that's gone wrong with Laurel on Arrow. I hope one day we hear from the EPs why they either didn't consider this or considered it but decided against it.

[EmeraldArcher]

In EBR's Seat42F interview, it sounds like her first answer indicates that "we'll see them in their couple-y retrospect." Did anyone else catch that?! I think we're going to be treated to the highlights of their 5-month love-cation! YES!!

-----------------------------------------------------

ETA: From my July 1st post expressing my wishes for this:

Re the TV Guide article: The caption for the picture of Oliver and Felicity driving off into the sunset quotes MG saying "The season premiere will reveal what Oliver and Felicity have been up to."

That's a vague tease, but I'm still excited because I'm intentionally reading too much into the "have been up to" part. Given the usual fast pacing of premiere episodes, I expect that they'll focus on the big picture of their five months together, and that it would have to be more specific and significant than great sex and strolls on beaches.

Edited July 12, 2015 by EmeraldArcher

[Ceylon5]

Someone upthread said they hadn't seen anyone mention the Oliver kid storyline.  Well, it gets a passing mention in this interview:

[Belinea]

After watching the panel I do feel bad for KC. It felt as though she has a harder time to connect with the audience and then tries to speak up but is always slightly off. I do think that she takes it too hard. It is probably easier to be up there and be comfortable if people cheer no matter what. The fact that the Canary storyline was badly done is not on KC. It is just a bad storyline. 

 

Additionally I watched CL ING interview: She seems like a sweetheart and BR seems really chill. She said that she did not know that Sara would come back and that the producers didn't know either apparently. And if they did, they didn't share that information with her. (which she deems a mean thing to do.) But she seems under the impression that the reaction of the fans had a lot to do with bringing Sara back because as far as she was concerned Sara was dead and she was done with the show.

This nicely contradicts with AK's statement that they knew all along. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by Belinea

[dtissagirl]

Does the marriage to Nyssa means something/will be a problem?

 

Steve: No.

 

Me: Thanks, Steve!

[Morrigan2575]

Huh?

[DrSpaceman10]

Does the marriage to Nyssa means something/will be a problem?

 

Steve: No.

 

Me: Thanks, Steve!

 

I'm glad someone finally addressed that. It does sound like it'll be a non issue in S4, as in it was invalid and it won't carry forward. 

[Starfish35]

Potentially, she could have been the leading lady she was promised on that show; beyond the credits, she's never going to be that on Arrow again.

I highly doubt that, not as long as Caity Lotz was there. Caity Lotz very much seems to be the leading lady of LoT, and KC would always be totally in her shadow, just as she was in season two of Arrow.

The best chance I think KC/Laurel has right now is a Birds of Prey spinoff. It's not that I believe that's in the cards - I don't - but I think that's theoretically the best scenario for her character. I know the Arrow fans want her off Arrow, but she does not fit on either of the other two shows any more than she does here. There's no connection for her on Flash - she'd stand out like a sore thumb. And on LoT, she's always going to be shown up by Caity's White Canary. A BoP spinoff would give her her own team and own friends. Whether the network wants to take a chance on a spinoff with as controversial of a character as she's been is another story.

[dtissagirl]

I won't mind if they make it a running joke every time Nyssa shows up. But if they make it ~an issue~, I'll make it an issue as well by complaining a lot about it here in this forum.

[EmeraldArcher]

I won't mind if they make it a running joke every time Nyssa shows up. But if they make it ~an issue~, I'll make it an issue as well by complaining a lot about it here in this forum.

I really, really appreciated SA's response about the marriage. He basically said that it wasn't legitimate in any way and will be a non-issue. He also called Felicity's annulment comment "throwaway," so it seems like that might be (hopefully) the last time it has any weight at all.

So basically, the marriage really was just a stupid dick move by the writers/EPs for Plot! reasons.

[AyChihuahua]

I really, really appreciated SA's response about the marriage. He basically said that it wasn't legitimate in any way and will be a non-issue. He also called Felicity's annulment comment "throwaway," so it seems like that might be (hopefully) the last time it has any weight at all.

So basically, the marriage really was just a stupid dick move by the writers/EPs for Plot! reasons.

And Batman. Never underestimate Guggie's lust to be the EP of Batman instead of Arrow.

[Chaser]

I don't think there is a best case for KC; not in terms of the CW/DC properties at least. She would always be the lesser-redundent Canary on LOT. There isn't a place for her to fit in on The Flash. She's lacking an actual connection (purpose) on Arrow. That's just my opinion, but if you can remove her from the show and realize that nothing would change - you have a problem. And yes, the fan response seemed to be better this year. But consider that she was a non-entity at Comic-Con. They didn't even tease a storyline for her (they at least did that for her last year). KC did in the press room, but not on the panel or in the EP interviews. Something in all their data, tells them she isn't a selling point on the largest fan stage. 

Edited July 12, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Guest]

Additionally I watched CL ING interview: She seems like a sweetheart and BR seems really chill. She said that she did not know that Sara would come back and that the producers didn't know either apparently. And if they did, they didn't share that information with her. (which she deems a mean thing to do.) But she seems under the impression that the reaction of the fans had a lot to do with bringing Sara back because as far as she was concerned Sara was dead and she was done with the show.

This nicely contradicts with AK's statement that they knew all along. 

 

They absolutely did not know all along omg! Haha. No way. I think the EP's were stunned by the fan reaction to Sara's death and then realized a way around it with the new show. Good for CL for saying what we all thought.

 

You know, I actually still can't watch Sara's death. The way she hits that dumpster is horrible. It's just wrong on every level. I'm glad she's coming back.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

If they knew, wouldn't they have had to tell her to make sure she was available? Seems like an idiotic thing to keep secret when they'd need her to keep her schedule clear. She couldn't have still been under contract and just not known, since it seems like she would've asked about it so she could find another job?

[lemotomato]

KC/LL didn't get much coverage last year, but at least they mentioned bringing in Ted Grant for her and the "you catch 'em, I cook 'em" relationship with Oliver. There was even less from her this year, which I kind of regret because I genuinely want to know, and also it would've given her fans something to talk about other than their continued slagging on Olicity.

 

I agree with Starfish35 that the best way to make everyone happy is to give BC the Birds of Prey spinoff. I can't believe that TPTB thought that an ATOM spinoff (which became Legends of Tomorrow) was a better idea than BoP, but maybe they could only handle developing one female superhero (Supergirl) at a time? 

Edited July 12, 2015 by lemotomato

[wonderwall]

There was even less from her this year, which I kind of regret because I genuinely want to know, and also it would've given her fans something to talk about other than their continued slagging on Olicity.

 

LBR even if there's news on Thea/Laurel/Diggle/ANYONE they would still attack Olicity and its shippers. It's what they do. It's like they think that if they hate on it enough, then the producers will catch wind of it and kill Felicity or end Olicity aka give them what they want aka fanservice 

[Carrie Ann]

I don't think I've seen anyone else post this--apologies if I missed it--but a nice Tumblr-er put together a nice collection of articles, photos, interviews, etc. from this weekend.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[Morrigan2575]

KC/LL didn't get much coverage last year, but at least they mentioned bringing in Ted Grant for her and the "you catch 'em, I cook 'em" relationship with Oliver. There was even less from her this year, which I kind of regret because I genuinely want to know, and also it would've given her fans something to talk about other than their continued slagging on Olicity.

I agree with Starfish35 that the best way to make everyone happy is to give BC the Birds of Prey spinoff. I can't believe that TPTB thought that an ATOM spinoff (which became Legends of Tomorrow) was a better idea than BoP, but maybe they could only handle developing one female superhero (Supergirl) at a time?

I think the CW, WB and DC might disagree with you. You don't give a spinoff to a less than beloved character just to make it easier to find a place to fit her in.

[Morena]

After watching the panel I do feel bad for KC. It felt as though she has a harder time to connect with the audience and then tries to speak up but is always slightly off. I do think that she takes it too hard. It is probably easier to be up there and be comfortable if people cheer no matter what. The fact that the Canary storyline was badly done is not on KC. It is just a bad storyline. 

 

Additionally I watched CL ING interview: She seems like a sweetheart and BR seems really chill. She said that she did not know that Sara would come back and that the producers didn't know either apparently. And if they did, they didn't share that information with her. (which she deems a mean thing to do.) But she seems under the impression that the reaction of the fans had a lot to do with bringing Sara back because as far as she was concerned Sara was dead and she was done with the show.

This nicely contradicts with AK's statement that they knew all along. 

always thought they wanted was LL / BC in LoT and her as the only woman had this goal, see how the audience reacted.  Only realized that her / his character was not popular or beloved enough for that. And they already had the Atom problem, which was not as well received as expected in Arrow.

So, they decided to bring Sara back.

[lemotomato]

LBR even if there's news on Thea/Laurel/Diggle/ANYONE they would still attack Olicity and its shippers. It's what they do. It's like they think that if they hate on it enough, then the producers will catch wind of it and kill Felicity or end Olicity aka give them what they want aka fanservice 

Yeah... I just came across a big post about how all the positive Olicity news from ComicCon just means that it's a temporary relationship that won't last, and it's just prepping Oliver to be a good boyfriend for his endgame relationship with Laurel. ::headdesk::

[wonderwall]

Yeah... I just came across a big post about how all the positive Olicity news from ComicCon just means that it's a temporary relationship that won't last, and it's just prepping Oliver to be a good boyfriend for his endgame relationship with Laurel. ::headdesk::

They make it sound like the show is fattening Oliver up like a cow for slaughter.

 

...which IMO is what it will be. It'll just take away both his and Laurel's development. 

 

I for one love how the EPs emphasized that the show is done looking at the past and is now looking forward. And according to Stephen, Laurel is a part of his past.

[lemotomato]

I think the CW, WB and DC might disagree with you. You don't give a spinoff to a less than beloved character just to make it easier to find a place to fit her in.

Maybe, but they must have good reasons for hiring KC and making her BC, though? From what I can tell, BC is more beloved than the ATOM, and I didn't really ever hear of anyone clamoring for Supergirl to get a show. And a BoP spinoff would have already been partially set up, since Helena had already been introduced.

Edited July 12, 2015 by lemotomato

[Morena]

I don't think it matters that KC got less applause or not. This was already a brutal SDCC for her... I feel really bad. What with everyone calling Caity BC and DR calling Laurel Canary and her name not being written on that infamous whiteboard and just her character getting zero interest... Idk it doesn't feel right to me to just pile another thing on. 

 

I'm feeling super nice today :p

 

I always remember the jacket scene and others her interviews, so I cantt feel bad for her

Edited July 12, 2015 by Morena

[Starfish35]

I agree with Starfish35 that the best way to make everyone happy is to give BC the Birds of Prey spinoff. I can't believe that TPTB thought that an ATOM spinoff (which became Legends of Tomorrow) was a better idea than BoP, but maybe they could only handle developing one female superhero (Supergirl) at a time?

Ehhh. That's the problem. Networks don't throw around money to make whole TV shows if they don't think it's a viable project. And I frankly don't see how it is. They don't have the rights to Oracle, and Laurel is, well, controversial in the fandom, to say the least. So I don't see right now how BoP is a workable project at all, and I'm sure that's why they didn't go with it.

The only thing that might work is if they got Katrina Law on board, because they did have a very positive response to Laurel and Nyssa, and I'm sure that did not go unnoticed. And throw in Rila Fukushima as Katana, and maybe Huntress, and you might have something like a team. But you still don't have an Oracle, and the question is if either the network or the audience would go for a BoP team that didn't have an Oracle.

[dtissagirl]

LBR even if there's news on Thea/Laurel/Diggle/ANYONE they would still attack Olicity and its shippers. It's what they do. It's like they think that if they hate on it enough, then the producers will catch wind of it and kill Felicity or end Olicity aka give them what they want aka fanservice 

 

Well, there's a new petition to remove Felicity and Oliver/Felicity from the show making the rounds in their circles, which I'm not gonna link because LOL NO, but it comes with a long ass misogynistic text, and in the 48 hours it has been live, it has gathered the fantastic whooping number of 22 signatures. Great job, everyone.

[tangerine95]

KC/LL didn't get much coverage last year, but at least they mentioned bringing in Ted Grant for her and the "you catch 'em, I cook 'em" relationship with Oliver. There was even less from her this year, which I kind of regret because I genuinely want to know, and also it would've given her fans something to talk about other than their continued slagging on Olicity.

 

I agree with Starfish35 that the best way to make everyone happy is to give BC the Birds of Prey spinoff. I can't believe that TPTB thought that an ATOM spinoff (which became Legends of Tomorrow) was a better idea than BoP, but maybe they could only handle developing one female superhero (Supergirl) at a time? 

I don't understand why she should get a spinoff.Not fitting in on arrow is not the only problem LL has.She's as a character was created to be a generic love interest,I'll never believe them when they say they planned to make her BC all along.Thats why's she's just not believable as a superhero.And KC IMO doesn't have the pysical presence to play BC no matter how much she trains.They should just send her away and say BC's having her own adventures we just don't have to see it.There's no way they would do a BoP show with this BC and with KC as the lead.No network would aprove that.We saw how they wanted the spinoff to be about the ATOM but had to bring in other characters like Sara because Ray Palmer didn't generate enough interest on his own.

I always remember the jacket scene and other her interviews her, so I cantt feel bad for her

Me too.I just remember how bad CL must have felt when they threw Sara in the dumpster and gave all her stuff to Laurel but she was still more humble and profesional then KC ever was.

[lemotomato]

I don't understand why she should get a spinoff.Not fitting in on arrow is not the only problem LL has.She's as a character was created to be a generic love interest,I'll never believe them when they say they planned to make her BC all along.Thats why's she's just not believable as a superhero.And KC IMO doesn't have the pysical presence to play BC no matter how much she trains.They should just send her away and say BC's having her own adventures we just don't have to see it.There's no way they would do a BoP show with this BC and with KC as the lead.No network would aprove that.We saw how they wanted the spinoff to be about the ATOM but had to bring in other characters like Sara because Ray Palmer didn't generate enough interest on his own.

To be honest, it's mostly wishful thinking on my part. I just want to watch Arrow in (relative) peace. And I don't want anyone to lose their job just because I'm not the biggest fan of their character or how they fit on the show. BoP seems like a win-win, if it had the right cast. But yeah, I guess their non-access to Oracle makes it a non-starter.

Edited July 12, 2015 by lemotomato

[Morena]

 

Ironically, I feel like she could have been important to Oliver, if the writers had followed through with the "You catch 'em, I cook 'em" dynamic in "The Calm." But making her Black Canary ruined that. And BC gave her something to do, but so what? She's still not crucial to Oliver's story in any real sense. And yes, a lot of fans hate her less than they used to, but it mostly just means they're apathetic about her now, instead of thinking she's a useless blight on the show. There's still no real sense of passion for her among most fans. Even her hardcore fans seem to spend more time slagging Felicity, Oliver, and Olicity than talking about and promoting how great Laurel is. As a result, she continues to be relegated to the "Oh yeah, she's on the show too" position when there are cons and other events.

 

I know the people on the board who no longer watch Arrow but are planning to watch LoT don't want her on that show, but for the life of me, I don't understand why the EPs didn't move her there. It was the perfect opportunity to give Laurel/BC a fresh start, free of all the baggage from Arrow. She could have established BC on her own terms, separate and apart from Oliver. Also, I thought KC played really well off of BR in their brief scene together, and it could have been fun to see them have an adversarial/frenemy relationship. And it would have been a chance for Laurel and Sara to acknowledge that their previous sisterly relationship left a lot to be desired, and rebuild it from the ground up. Potentially, she could have been the leading lady she was promised on that show; beyond the credits, she's never going to be that on Arrow again.

 

IDK, it seems like that could have been the perfect solution to everything that's gone wrong with Laurel on Arrow. I hope one day we hear from the EPs why they either didn't consider this or considered it but decided against it.

the question is why they would need two (2) canaries in the show? what LL / BC would add to the show? something that Sara/WC had not done?if you observe the group (Atom, Hawkgirl, DC, Victor, WC, HW) they all have different skills.  they bring something different to the show, the junction that is interesting.

Sara/WC and LL/BC have similar skills, have both in the same show doesnt make sense, unless one becomes villain and join to Vandal group

[dtissagirl]

I think the thing about SDCC in particular is, Hall H reaction is the parameter by which Warner Bros will set the tone for the rest of the year/season [and WB doesn't direct storylines so much as they direct where the money goes]. That's a pretty accurate sample of the larger fandom they get once a year, without having to resort to focus groups and marketing research. Those 6500 folks filling those seats are not united in anything specific, other than they really like the shows DC/WB are making. If the majority of that crowd obviously adores Felicity, that's fair and square random sampling. And so the suits will pay attention to what pleases that particular crowd, and what doesn't, more than any other particular crowd they have access to*.

 

 

* With the possible exception of Netflix binge-watching stats, because boy, that sample is probably the most scarily accurate thing ever on the planet. I could sell a kidney to take a peek at that, yes.

Edited July 12, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Chaser]

Well, there's a new petition to remove Felicity and Oliver/Felicity from the show making the rounds in their circles, which I'm not gonna link because LOL NO, but it comes with a long ass misogynistic text, and in the 48 hours it has been live, it has gathered the fantastic whooping number of 22 signatures. Great job, everyone.

I don't think they realize how backward they are doing things.  Arrow has a very vocal anti-Felicity/Olicity hater group (just to clarify: there is a difference between not liking a storyline and being a hater about it, these are haters). The hater groups tend to bash everything with the show, they go on comment sections and forums and rant. They spend so much time hating instead of talking about what they want to see. 

 

But the pro-Felicity/Olicity group? They try and get the show recognition through E! Online and MTV Polls. They contact media outlets and go to cons to cheer at panels and buy merchandise.  They go to the show's stars wine parties and donate to their charities. They spend money.

 

People can argue that that isn't true it's bias talking, but watch the way they market their mini-comics. Watch the panel interviews. Look up who is guest staring on Vixen. Break down this SDCC.

I think the thing about SDCC in particular is, Hall H reaction is the parameter by which Warner Bros will set the tone for the rest of the year/season [and WB doesn't direct storylines so much as they direct where the money goes]. That's a pretty accurate sample of the larger fandom they get once a year, without having to resort to focus groups and marketing research. Those 6500 folks filling those seats are not united in anything specific, other than they really like the shows DC/WB are making. If the majority of that crowd obviously adores Felicity, that's fair and square random sampling. And so the suits will pay attention to what pleases that particular crowd, and what doesn't, more than any other particular crowd they have access to*.

 

 

* With the possible exception of Netflix binge-watching stats, because boy, that sample is probably the most scarily accurate thing ever on the planet. I could sell a kidney to take a peek at that, yes.

Maybe that's good news for Arrow, TVD's panel looked barely half full - if that.

Edited July 12, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[olicityfan25]

Exactly. All the little side projects that include Stephen and Emily even Carlos and others are where you can see that they are listening to the fans that are campaigning for their favorite actors. There are definitely more Olicity fans than loliver (

Edited July 12, 2015 by olicityfan25

[AyChihuahua]

"I don't think they realize how backward they are doing things. Arrow has a very vocal anti-Felicity/Olicity hater group (just to clarify: there is a difference between not liking a storyline and being a hater about it, these are haters). The hater groups tend to bash everything with the show, they go on comment sections and forums and rant. They spend so much time hating instead of talking about what they want to see."

Some of it is, I think, contrarianism. There have always been people who won't like something simply because other people do. Personally I find it maddening. There are a few, but luckily for me not too many, contrarians even on this board. "Everyone loves BLANK, therefore I hate it." "Everyone hates BLANK, therefore I love it." I lived in the PNW during the rise of grunge and it made me insane that lots of people who'd supposedly loved Alice in Chains, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, etc., started hating them just because they hit it big. So they can't go positive re LL because they don't actually like the storyline or character. (I'm referring only to the subgroup defined as haters here, not everyone who loves LL or KC.)

[bethy]

What did KC say about doliver (I'm assuming Diggle and Oliver?)?

[quarks]

Maybe, but they must have good reasons for hiring KC and making her BC, though? From what I can tell, BC is more beloved than the ATOM, and I didn't really ever hear of anyone clamoring for Supergirl to get a show. And a BoP spinoff would have already been partially set up, since Helena had already been introduced.

 

Before Arrow started, Katie Cassidy had been on a number of CW shows, receiving positive attention, and was known to the network. Smallville had been a definite success for the network, but that was based on one of the best known characters on the planet (the only one better known is Mickey Mouse). It's not really a stretch to assume that the CW took a look at the concept of a show focused on a minor DC superhero, with a lead actor mainly known up until that point for playing a male prostitute on an HBO show and one season on Private Practice, and demanded that Arrow also cast someone with some name recognition as his romantic interest.

 

With Supergirl - the main reasons we haven't had a Supergirl show before this are a) as Berlanti has stated and CBS is currently learning, it's expensive to film, and b) although Superman movies have generally done well at the box office (with exceptions here and there), the 1984 Supergirl was a critical and box office bomb and a huge money loser.  Three decades later and Marvel was still using the Supergirl movie to justify not making a Black Widow film. It was that bad.  Later, when Supergirl joined Smallville in season seven, ratings slipped. In related news, expect a lot more promotion for Supergirl.

[olicityfan25]

What did KC say about doliver (I'm assuming Diggle and Oliver?)?

Well nothing really she just interjected herself talking about another ship name right after or during I can't exactly remember when. But she started taking about another ship when Emily and Stephen were done thanking the fans. It just turned awkward a little bit to me.

[dtissagirl]

Imo, the Felicity haters are pretty much invisible to WB/CW/DC at large. Fandom sees it because we're all professional stalkers here, and I'm guessing journos covering Arrow see it in their comment sections. But those folks don't produce nearly enough content online as they need to produce to make a dent. I mean, the volume of negativity about Laurel in S1 and S2 made a dent. It made a GIANT dent. I honestly don't see Felicity hate from S3 being nearly as impacting. Nor it affecting the people it needs to affect so that it changes the show itself.

 

And then there's Guggenheim, who actively sees the Felicity hate because he's on Tumblr getting asks delivered right to his inbox... but his reaction to any sort of criticism is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, so they're also not affecting any change there.

Edited July 12, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Chaser]

Imo, the Felicity haters are pretty much invisible to WB/CW/DC at large. Fandom sees it because we're all professional stalkers here, and I'm guessing journos covering Arrow see it in their comment sections. But those folks don't produce nearly enough content online as they need to produce to make a dent. I mean, the volume of negativity about Laurel in S1 and S2 made a dent. It made a GIANT dent. I honestly don't see Felicity hate from S3 being nearly as impacting. Nor it affecting the people it needs to affect so that it changes the show itself.

 

And then there's Guggenheim, who actively sees the Felicity hate because he's on Tumblr getting asks delivered right to his inbox... but his reaction to any sort of criticism is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, so they're also not affecting any change there.

I find you quite comforting as a person.

[jay741982]

EBR is adorable:

I am loving Wendy Mericle's interview in this one:

http://www.craveonline.com/comics/interviews/876909-comic-con-2015-cast-arrow-teases-season-4

She's adorable avd sexy! I loved her little dance when SA said that he has a sugar mama and her "Making it Rain"

[wonderwall]

I find you quite comforting as a person.

 

I agree :) Seriously though, the hate for Felicity stopped fazing me after I learned just how much impact the love for her character is making. People still call her the fan favorite, people still cheer for her the loudest, she got nominated for the TCAs, she just gets so much more love than hate. So that comforts me. 

[tangerine95]

Imo, the Felicity haters are pretty much invisible to WB/CW/DC at large. Fandom sees it because we're all professional stalkers here, and I'm guessing journos covering Arrow see it in their comment sections. But those folks don't produce nearly enough content online as they need to produce to make a dent. I mean, the volume of negativity about Laurel in S1 and S2 made a dent. It made a GIANT dent. I honestly don't see Felicity hate from S3 being nearly as impacting. Nor it affecting the people it needs to affect so that it changes the show itself.

 

And then there's Guggenheim, who actively sees the Felicity hate because he's on Tumblr getting asks delivered right to his inbox... but his reaction to any sort of criticism is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, so they're also not affecting any change there.

And most of the criticism they send MG on tumblr had Lauriver undertones even though they deny it.So he knows whats the problem there really.And the hate on Felicity is so dumb no one would take it seriously.It always she's whiny,a mary sue,inventing stuff that didn't happen on the show,she cried too much,how dare she stand up to men and so on...

[pivot]

Since I think KC is by far the weakest actor in the Arrow/Flash/LoT universe, I think keeping her as the #4 actor on Arrow is less risky than trying to launch a new show with the anchor of KC and her unpopular character. I think a combination of Ray and Laurel neither of whom are all that popular would have been too much for the show to overcome. Putting Sara on with Ray lets them bring back a character who was more popular than they thought and also gives them an actress who can believably kickass. LoT seems much more action-oriented than Arrow and KC's stunt double would have stood out even worse over there.

[Balaclava]

"I don't think they realize how backward they are doing things.  Arrow has a very vocal anti-Felicity/Olicity hater group (just to clarify: there is a difference between not liking a storyline and being a hater about it, these are haters). The hater groups tend to bash everything with the show, they go on comment sections and forums and rant. They spend so much time hating instead of talking about what they want to see.

But the pro-Felicity/Olicity group? They try and get the show recognition through E! Online and MTV Polls. They contact media outlets and go to cons to cheer at panels and buy merchandise.  They go to the show's stars wine parties and donate to their charities. They spend money.

People can argue that that isn't true it's bias talking, but watch the way they market their mini-comics. Watch the panel interviews. Look up who is guest staring on Vixen. Break down this SDCC"

 

In the end it's all about the money, the E awards MTV award and hopefully at least one TCA brings a lot of exposure and (free) publicity to Arrow and the pro-Olicity group does spend money, you can find numerous examples out there.

 

Bottom line it's always better to advocate about what you like.

[dtissagirl]

Hee, I do what I can. <3

 

I actually have a couple of solutions for them, if they want it. Free of charge hate strategy:

 

1. find around ten thousand people who hate Felicity, pick a leader to create the anti- Smoak&Arrow Tumblr and Twitter accounts, and lead those ten thousand folks into all sorts of fun fandom activities, except with hatred in their hearts.

 

2. Get Craig to stop with the "I'm not biased" hilarity, and make him turn GATV into *the* place that loathes Felicity and Oliver/Felicity for realsies, and then gather the ten thousand people and lead them in hatred.

Edited July 12, 2015 by dancingnancy

[foreverevolving]

Before Arrow started, Katie Cassidy had been on a number of CW shows, receiving positive attention, and was known to the network. Smallville had been a definite success for the network, but that was based on one of the best known characters on the planet (the only one better known is Mickey Mouse). It's not really a stretch to assume that the CW took a look at the concept of a show focused on a minor DC superhero, with a lead actor mainly known up until that point for playing a male prostitute on an HBO show and one season on Private Practice, and demanded that Arrow also cast someone with some name recognition as his romantic interest.

 

With Supergirl - the main reasons we haven't had a Supergirl show before this are a) as Berlanti has stated and CBS is currently learning, it's expensive to film, and b) although Superman movies have generally done well at the box office (with exceptions here and there), the 1984 Supergirl was a critical and box office bomb and a huge money loser.  Three decades later and Marvel was still using the Supergirl movie to justify not making a Black Widow film. It was that bad.  Later, when Supergirl joined Smallville in season seven, ratings slipped. In related news, expect a lot more promotion for Supergirl.

 

Supergirl the movie failed cause it was an honest to god badly written movie, and it came at the heels of the failed 80s superman movies (ETA: I stand corrected, should have checked online before writing, SG came out in 84 after superman 3, which wasn't amazing but wasn't a total flop either). they should have let that movie be released in the 70's after the first or second superman movie.. it would have made a shit load of money.

Smallvile ratings started to tank in season 7 just like every show rating starts to tank from season 5 onward (if they are lucky to reach beyond season 5).. Supergirl is actually one of the few bright spots of Smallville's later seasons.

Edited July 12, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Balaclava]

She's adorable avd sexy! I loved her little dance when SA said that he has a sugar mama and her "Making it Rain"

 

She's a huge part of everything good about the Arrow cast, her SA and DR, but Emily takes the adorable award :D

[EmeraldArcher]

What did KC say about doliver (I'm assuming Diggle and Oliver?)?

See, when I heard that during the panel, I was like "Doliver?" No. It should be "Oliviggle" or "Diggle-ver"--can't make a ship name without the "iggle"!

I digress.

Actually, having watched every single video posted here this weekend, my impression of the KC interviews are that they're very superficial because she only gets asked superficial questions that require either a Y/N answer or a description of her level of excitement about being BC. In contrast, EBR and WH came across as very in tune with their characters' journeys, struggles, desires, flaws, and relationships with others. The guys also came across as very thoughtful and insightful about their characters' relationships with others. KC simply repeated "legitimate," stated she was "very excited" about finally being BC, and boasted that it feels good knowing she could kick anybody's butt. The rest of the questions dealt with what KC would like to do--crossover on Flash and LoT-- without really addressing Laurel's hopes, dreams, motivations, struggles, or anything else. LL just does not seem relevant even to the people conducting interviews.

I don't see how that can be sustainable.

[minor edits for typos--lack of sleep becoming more apparent]

Edited July 12, 2015 by EmeraldArcher

[olicityfan25]

EmeraldArcher so on point.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Imo, the Felicity haters are pretty much invisible to WB/CW/DC at large. Fandom sees it because we're all professional stalkers here, and I'm guessing journos covering Arrow see it in their comment sections. But those folks don't produce nearly enough content online as they need to produce to make a dent. I mean, the volume of negativity about Laurel in S1 and S2 made a dent. It made a GIANT dent. I honestly don't see Felicity hate from S3 being nearly as impacting. Nor it affecting the people it needs to affect so that it changes the show itself.

 

And then there's Guggenheim, who actively sees the Felicity hate because he's on Tumblr getting asks delivered right to his inbox... but his reaction to any sort of criticism is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, so they're also not affecting any change there.

 

I wasn't online during the first season, so I'm completely clueless about what happened during the early months. Was there really negativity regarding Laurel? I always thought it was more apathy than negativity (which, I guess, is worse).

[Chaser]

I wasn't online either, but I went back and looked at some of the reaction. I would say there was a lot of negativity to Laurel and apathy to Laurel and Oliver.

[NumberCruncher]

Well, there's a new petition to remove Felicity and Oliver/Felicity from the show making the rounds in their circles, which I'm not gonna link because LOL NO, but it comes with a long ass misogynistic text, and in the 48 hours it has been live, it has gathered the fantastic whooping number of 22 signatures. Great job, everyone.

It's stuff like this that makes Oliver's "I fell in love" comment getting such a huge positive response in Hall H last night warm the deepest cockles of my heart. If the Olicity hate is so strong, apparently there were just a ton of haters who stayed far away from SDCC.

I don't honestly get all of the piling on KC either. To me, she was perfectly fine in all of the SDCC stuff I saw and I saw her smile more this year than any of the previous years. When they asked her how it felt to finally be BC you could clearly see the relief in her eyes. I've said it many times before, but I can't blame her one bit for relishing the transition to BC considering the shitty writing they gave her the first two seasons. To me, Laurel has always been a nonentity character--didn't love her, didn't hate her--and from the reaction I've seen in the media and in the fandom still to this day, things haven't changed all that much. The people who didn't like her still don't. The people who love her still do and the people who don't care...you get the picture. I just can't waste my time over-analyzing it.

Edited July 12, 2015 by NumberCruncher