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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

Zalyn

By Zalyn
in Arrow

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dtissagirl
dtissagirl

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

WindofChange
WindofChange

Oh wow, Emily. I'm impressed because this is really brave and I'm really proud that she said this in such an eloquent way.

dtissagirl
dtissagirl

Ha. Reading those stage directions, and realizing how EBR went the opposite way [curious and skeptic rather than faint by hot guy] makes me understand 100% how fucking lost they were at that time, and

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

I'd say season 2 and 3 for starters.  Probably also Sara staying on the show.  "You have failed this city" for certain.

 

I talked to someone who was there.  Getting her to say something specific is like pulling hen's teeth but one of the things she said is that "You have failed this city" is coming back this season. The producers meant it to be only for s1 but the fans told SA they liked it so much, he went to the producers and asked if it could go back in again.  So that could be what he's referring to.

 

She also said that even though he lives in LA, he considers Toronto home (he was born there), which the fans liked, and that the LA Kings was his team, which they didn't so much.

Edited by statsgirl
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Ugh I really don't want it to be because of Olicity. It just adds more bitterness and "I told you so"s and fan-pandering comments :/ 

 

It's probably more than one thing, and we'll never know what those things are. But I think Olicity is a thing where there's definite chemistry and the producers wanted to explore it AND a large amount of fans are behind it, so it's the perfect storm of something that was probably going to happen anyway, so it's easy to explain it away as fan service.

 

Hopefully one of those things is BC related, but I think the producers are too attached to the idea of Laurel. The usage of some villains might be one of them? Return of some characters? IDK. They might be small things, like explanations and such. The death of Lauriver? (fingers crossed)

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Chaser

Chaser

It could cover a lot of things. I think Olicity is a really good bet. It is going to be referenced as proof by those who don't support the relationship. Though I think people need to get away from the idea that 'BECAUSE of the fan base' is negative thing. The influence of the fans can really improve the evolution of a show. 

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wingster55

wingster55

I think it is Olicity..Felicity having an increased role doesn't mean they wanted her and Oliver. But also Sara "you have failed this city" shirtless ness salmon ladder Tommy returning and I'm using my phone so forgive the lack of commas.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I think it is Olicity..Felicity having an increased role doesn't mean they wanted her and Oliver. But also Sara "you have failed this city" shirtless ness salmon ladder Tommy returning and I'm using my phone so forgive the lack of commas.

 

I think it was an evolutionary thing. They wanted her role increased because IIRC the role of Felicity was the initial solution to fan feedback from the pilot wondering how Oliver, after being on a "deserted island" for five years would know how to do some of the things he knew how to do on a computer, and EBR brought out a side of Oliver that we didn't see otherwise. I think the serious consideration of pairing them came a bit later (an idea that was encouraged by the reaction of a segment of the fanbase, not brought about because of it).

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I'm pretty sure any consideration of Oliver/Felicity as a pairing was done before the finale of season 1 when MG said that they have to get done with Tommy/Laurel/Oliver before they explore Oliver/Felicity. Back then the amount of shippers for them wasn't as much as there are today (my memory is foggy but I don't remember the fandom being that big before). If this is the case then I don't think fan-servicing has anything to do with it, more like what the writers thought seemed natural.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'm pretty sure any consideration of Oliver/Felicity as a pairing was done before the finale of season 1 when MG said that they have to get done with Tommy/Laurel/Oliver before they explore Oliver/Felicity. Back then the amount of shippers for them wasn't as much as there are today (my memory is foggy but I don't remember the fandom being that big before). If this is the case then I don't think fan-servicing has anything to do with it, more like what the writers thought seemed natural.

 

Yeah, you expressed what I was trying to get at much better than I did. I think it was a convergence of what the writers were going to do anyway, and what a vocal segment of the fanbase wanted anyway. So it's easy to explain away as fan service/fan pandering/whatever ridiculous thing people want to call it.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

i think what gives it a bad name is the fact that the minority don't really like it when writers throw away all creativity/plans to cater to the popular opinion of the fandom. That being said, Arrow has not thrown away its creativity in order to 'cater' to the fans, if they did, then Oliver/Felicity probably would lose supporters than gain them. And plans aren't meant to be followed 100% in tv anyways. Just look at HIMYM and how big of a failure that was. 

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Orion

Orion

(edited)

IMO the EPs were already setting up Felicity and Oliver, maybe not as "the" major romance but as "a" major romance as early as 1X08, which is before any fans saw Felicity in any episode. That is where you get Diggle saying, "I don’t think love is about changing or saving a person, I think it’s about finding someone who’s already the right fit," cut directly to Felicity.

 

I could buy that he is referring to Felicity being the only woman in Oliver's life being a response from fan feed back of bed hopping Oliver but I'll never believe that after that first scene between the two of them that Felicity and Oliver weren't going to get together in some form.

 

There is to little in that statement for me to guess at what he was referring to and there are a lot of possibilities like others have stated above.

 

I'm so over the fan pandering argument at this point. Realizing that the people making that argument would not feel that way if they were on the side getting "pandered" to and it comes out of jealousy/frustration with the storyline lets me just laugh at it and feel a bit sorry for them now.  

Edited by Orion
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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

Listen, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle also pandered to the fans when he brought Sherlock back to life after killing him. If Sir Arthur can cave into 'fan pandering' in the days of limited literacy and no electricity, then who are people from WB and CW. I say bring it on.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

And plans aren't meant to be followed 100% in tv anyways. Just look at HIMYM and how big of a failure that was. 

Excellent point.

 

 

IMO the EPs were already setting up Felicity and Oliver, maybe not as "the" major romance but as "a" major romance as early as 1X08, which is before any fans saw Felicity in any episode. That is where you get Diggle saying, "I don’t think love is about changing or saving a person, I think it’s about finding someone who’s already the right fit," cut directly to Felicity.

 

I could buy that he is referring to Felicity being the only woman in Oliver's life being a response from fan feed back of bed hopping Oliver but I'll never believe that after that first scene between the two of them that Felicity and Oliver weren't going to get together in some form.

As has been said before, the show's EPs were planning on more Felicity even before the WB exec told them to have more of her.  The episodes where she becomes part of Team Arrow were planned and written before the first time the audience got a look at her.

 

Maybe if Lauriver had worked Felicity wouldn't be Oliver's love interest but as soon as it became clear Lauriver was toxic, the EPs had to find someone else.  Felicity had a ton of chemistry with Oliver and she was already on the show. Why try to write yet another love interest?

 

Greg Berlanti has survived and thrived in the cut throat business of network TV for almost 20 years.  I doubt he's done it by going against what he thinks is good for the show to give the audience what they're asking for.

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Chaser

Chaser

I think they saw how much Olicity exploded between S1 and S2. They decided to test it out with the beginning of S2 featuring Oliver/Felicity development and when that was received positively by the majority of the fans and critics they decided to go full force (they just had to get through a few things first..which were UGH). I don't think some audience members realize everything starts with the writers and evolves from there. Look at Joss Whedon, he was always listening to the fans: killed the Connor plot line on Angel, didn't kill off Spike and is continuing to listen to fans and its improving AOS tenfold. The Fanbase should be your first resource, because are the ones who love the show the most and they will hurt you with that love to make you better. HYMYM LOL I had stopped watch that show, but tuned back in for the finale. I was so angry.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I know it's been said before but really, how is fans positively responding to something and the show runners embracing that a bad thing?

If it were only the fans taking a liking to Oliver/Felicity, Tumblr could have exploded a billion times and nothing would have happened. The president of the WB loved Felicity at first sight. If they're pandering to a fan, then it's to that dude.

My point is, network execs and studio execs and showrunners all had to agree that Oliver/Felicity was a thing they wanted to explore for it to happen. Not only that, but they decided on it WAY before the audience saw anything both seasons -- when we first saw Felicity in 103, they were working on February Sweeps episodes [meaning Vertigo and The Odyssey]. Same thing in S2. When S2 premiered, all of the romantic beats between Oliver and Felicity from 201 to 209 were already filmed. Fandom and media reacted enthusiastically to something that was already decided by TPTB. And in S2, the response was so huge that it actually created problems when they had to stall Oliver/Felicity by bringing in Barry and then having Oliver shack up with Sara. So it wasn't catering to Oliver/Felicity 'shippers that screwed up the season, it was going against the natural flow of their relationship between 201-210 that caused the disconnect, and the filler episodes *all sectors of this fandom* complain about.

Edited by dancingnancy
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pootlus

pootlus

Katrina Law is hilarious.  They all look like they're having a blast at Dragon Con, actually.  If KC was sick enough not to be able to shake hands, not sure I'd want her anywhere near me! I hope she gets better soon.

 

Amell is adorkable.

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TanyaKay

TanyaKay

Katrina Law is hilarious.  They all look like they're having a blast at Dragon Con, actually.  If KC was sick enough not to be able to shake hands, not sure I'd want her anywhere near me! I hope she gets better soon.

 

Amell is adorkable.

 

Was there a video where she said that she was unable to shake hands with people?

 

Why does she even attend cons when all she does is alienate people?

 

Katrina Law is awesome. Beautiful and funny.

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JJ928

JJ928

IMO the EPs were already setting up Felicity and Oliver, maybe not as "the" major romance but as "a" major romance as early as 1X08, which is before any fans saw Felicity in any episode. That is where you get Diggle saying, "I don’t think love is about changing or saving a person, I think it’s about finding someone who’s already the right fit," cut directly to Felicity.

 

It's funny because I remember watching that episode and my boyfriend turning to me and saying, ''that was the most unsubtle editing ever. I guess we know where this is going." He's a comic fan, and any comic knowledge I have is from him, but he wasn't annoyed. He loves Felicity, and though he thinks that Dinah is awesome in the comics, he can't stand Laurel. The fan-pandering argument is not going away anytime soon or ever. Marc Guggenheim even came out and said that Felicity & Oliver happened due to their chemistry, and that the relationship wasn't pandering. 

 

I agree with @dancingnancy, throwing in Barry & Sara was meant to stunt Oliver & Felicity. I read that Caity Lotz & Manu Bennet both commented on how Sara/Oliver came out of left field. According to some tweets I saw, Caity said that she and Stephen were playing it like there were no romantic feelings. They were surprised when they got the script where they hooked up. If they would have built that relationship up then I think more people would have been supportive, but it was obviously done to stall Olicity and put a cork in Laurel/Oliver. It did both of those things but it also made Sara & Oliver look bad. 

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Chaser

Chaser

Thanks! Totally blanked on them being two different Cons.

 

Are there Cons throughout the year? I really want to see one with EBR, though I guess the fact that she isn't there is a good thing too. 

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pootlus

pootlus

(edited)

Thanks! Totally blanked on them being two different Cons.

 

Are there Cons throughout the year? I really want to see one with EBR, though I guess the fact that she isn't there is a good thing too. 

 

There are LOTS of different cons everywhere (provided you're in the US, heh, although Canada, the UK and Australia do get the occasional look-in).

 

I don't know of one big site where every con is listed, unfortunately.  Individual fan pages for actors are probably the best places to look if you desperately want to see a particular actor (or the actor's Twitter/Facebook provided said actor is actually letting people know where they'll be appearing - some are rubbish at self-promotion, heh).

 

Word of warning - it's best to go to a con with an open mind - especially someone like Emily who will be filming/doing publicity for most of the year may cancel without warning, so I wouldn't set your heart on meeting someone.

 

That said I went to Wizard World San Antonio where John Barrowman was supposed to only be there Saturday and Sunday, and I thought it was going to be hell on earth trying to get a photo/auto given how popular he is - well, he turned up early (Friday afternoon) and jumped right into things, so sometimes they can get more time at the last minute as well as less...

Edited by pootlus
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'm not sure if anyone would know this, but do these actors make a lot of money off of cons? I'm guessing that they must, right? Do they get to keep all of the fees they charge for pictures and stuff, or is it some kind of percentage split with the promoter?

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

From what I heard actors can make around $1,500 to over $10,000 for con appearance depending on how big a name they are. If you want Chris Hemsworth at your con be prepared to shell out $100,000.

 

Apparently each celebrity agrees to come for either an appearance fee or guarantee. With the appearance fee you pay them x amount of dollars up front to come to the con. With the guarantee you agree on a dollar amount that their autograph/photo op sales must meet. If they don't make that dollar amount by the end of the weekend, the promoter pays the difference. So they can make a lot of money for a weekend of signing autographs and taking pictures. 

Edited by Sakura12
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quarks

quarks

"A lot of money" depends upon the con and the actor, but, yes, actors can actually make a living off the "con circuit" - this is more or less how Anthony Daniels has been making his living for years. Generally speaking, actors have to be paid at least $750 per con appearance by somebody, except in cases of unofficial appearances or awards presentations (as when, as this year, David Tennant and Peter Davison just showed up for the Hugo Awards at Worldcon because they were interested, sending everyone into a frenzy - but those were very, very definitely unofficial, unannounced appearances). Huge stars like Shatner and Fillion can charge $50,000 and up per con, but the vast majority of actors are closer to the $1500 to $5000 range, with actors also taking a percentage of any autograph fees. The fees are usually paid by the con, except for San Diego Comic Con, which is an entirely different beast. 

 

All of this is only true for actors, by the way. Guests of honor usually have their travel expenses comped, and may get an added fee, but that's about it; everyone else is usually only getting a comped badge, a T-shirt and sometimes some green room privileges, if that, although to be fair, everyone else can sometimes get someone else to pay, or, failing that, take con appearances and the related expenses as legitimate business/promotional expenses. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

From reading stuff in the SPN fandom I learned that writers don't get as much for their con appearances. Apparently one of the writers/producers for SPN complained about it on twitter.

I know Stan the Man and Shatner are 2 of the more expensive con attendees.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

If there is one way to get my blood to boil, it's using the phrase 'fan pandering.' I'm sorry but the producers and the head of WB liked Felicity before the episodes even aired. Having her come on for more episodes was not the result of the fan reaction but people in the business using their common sense. If you were making a TV show and you saw the chemistry between Amell and Rickards and how Oliver's character came alive around her, you'd do everything in your power to keep her on the show. They did. Sure, fans enjoyed Olicity and I'm sure the were a few more Olicity scenes as a result but what is so wrong with giving your audience what they want? What's so wrong with realizing what doesn't work and going with what does? I get so rage-y about this. 

Edited by Guest
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Meredith Quill

Meredith Quill

Brief Reminder:

 

Remember to keep this topic about PA's, if you want to discuss fan pandering or why Olicity makes sense etc take it to an appropriate thread and please feel free to use "bringing this over from the PA topic" as a disclaimer.

 

Thank you.

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KirkB

KirkB

(edited)
I told Stephen [Amell] that I pictured him, before he got the part, even though I had never seen him. When I read things, I get a lot of visuals, and I guess he was the visual. And then, he was attached and that was it. I was like, “This is exactly what I thought.”

 

   This...makes no sense. How could she have a visual (presumably of Amell as Oliver) when she's never read the comics?

Edited by KirkB
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

This...makes no sense. How could she have a visual (presumably of Amell as Oliver) when she's never read the comics?

Depending on which interview she's given. The older ones fron 2012 she talks about reading the comics and doing research on Dinah Lance. It's the more recent ones where she started saying she won't read the comics until Laurel becomes BC.

I don't know if she was lying then or lying now but both can't be true.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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manbearpig

manbearpig

(edited)

KC could absolutely have imagined someone Amell-ish when reading the Arrow pilot, heck there was probably even a vague physical description somewhere in the script anyway. It could just be as simple as 'oh, he's kind of how I pictured the character'. I'm sure it's pretty common for people to imagine the way a character looks when reading a book. The same could definitely happen when reading a script.

 

Even if it was before she got a script she still could've pictured someone if she had a meeting with the producers or was told about the show's general storyline; superhero-ish so he has to be tall, in good shape, intimidating, whatever. It's the CW so he has to be attractive, etc.

Edited by manbearpig
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willpwr

willpwr

I know that before the show aired KC and SA were doing a lot of promoting together. Some fans were shocked when he posted about his wedding on twitter because they shipped SA and KC  and some thought they were dating in real life since he was posting a lot of pictures of the two of them acting like a couple, trying to build up the hype for the show and she was gushing about how perfect he was as Arrow and that she loved watching him work out. She was generally a lot more positive back then in regards to the show and trying to get people interested in the comics as well. Her views seem to have changed a lot, maybe her PR reps were more involved back then or she got complacent. It's interesting looking at old interviews and comparing them to new ones.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

I know Stan the Man and Shatner are 2 of the more expensive con attendees.

Stan Lee did 3 cons this weekend, FanExpo, Dragon Con and one other.

 

The person who I know who went to see SA's Q&A said that she got the feeling that he was getting tired of being asked about Olicity all the time.  Not surprising.  It's too bad most of the cons  happen during the summer hiatus when there's really not much the actors can say about anything.

 

It's an interesting idea SA talks about, that people were saying that comic book shows don't work but Arrow worked because they moved it from episodic to arcing stories i.e. away from the hard core comic book format into a blend of comic and TV show.

 

I so appreciate the way his socks and shoes match his shirt.  

Edited by statsgirl
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wonderwall

wonderwall

lmao I'm not really surprised. I mean how many times would he have been asked questions about Oliver/Felicity and how many times would he have said the same exact answer? From the video I saw of the con, he didn't seem that tired of being asked about Olicity (from the moderator person lady), but it does get quite frustrating being asked about the same thing over and over again. It's not like he can give out any new info or anything. 

 

I hope this doesn't demotivate SA with regards to Olicity, as I'm sure it does to many actors. I sort of wish people would ask him about his other relationships like with Digg, Thea, Malcolm, and even Laurel. Will they be better friends? Will they start to get to know each other (because obviously they know nothing of one another)? Not everything is about Olicity. I'd also like to know about what was the hardest scene he had to shoot in season 3 so far... hmm that tweet comes to mind. I wonder what that was about

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Guest

Guest

I thought Amell loved talking about Olicity. I'm sure he'd love other questions too but it seems strange he'd get fed up talking about something he has only ever championed. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I thought Amell loved talking about Olicity. I'm sure he'd love other questions too but it seems strange he'd get fed up talking about something he has only ever championed. 

 

He's probably not fed up per se, just a little tired of talking about the same thing over and over again, especially when there's limited information he can really even give out about it. I imagine it'd be the same if people were repeatedly asking him about any other aspect of the show.

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Guest
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