S01.E07: Betrayal

[grandemocha]

 

Special effects are amazing these days. Basically you'd just need fake skin, and the equivalent of a squib (fake blood filled pellet that explodes) only with more liquid.  It looks realistic enough on enormous HD screens, I don't see why a simpler version wouldn't be just as compelling to the townsfolk at night and no closer than ten feet away. I actually thought way the sheriff cut Beverly's throat looked pretty odd at the time.

..Or, all they needed was a sharp knife/switchblade because Beverley's throat really was slit and she really did bleed out. I suppose Bill Evan's rotting corpse was faked with makeup and flies that were programmed to be on his skin? And Beverley is really just a devoted actress who was told to play dead in that one house until Ethan found her and cut her down?

 

As LEGALEAGLE53 said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. 

[FishyJoe]

How is that the fault of the show or the writers though? They (creators, writers, characters) have said that they are in the future (4028) so so many times and in so many different ways and you still have some people who stubbornly refuse to believe it..because IDK why? Because they'd rather have it be aliens, insanity, the government, or a dream?

 

I think people have grown so used to outlandish and super exaggerated explanations that when something is presented straightforward, they're suddenly displeased & nitpick.

 

Why? Because the explanations they have given are so unreasonable, that people are grasping to make sense out of nonsense. The only people on the show that have said it's the future are Pilcher and his henchmen, who have acted very shady. They have gone to outrageous lengths to lie to people who they have kidnapped and imprisoned, even tortured and executed. Exactly why should we believe anything they say?

[grandemocha]

 

Why? Because the explanations they have given are so unreasonable, that people are grasping to make sense out of nonsense. The only people on the show that have said it's the future are Pilcher and his henchmen, who have acted very shady. They have gone to outrageous lengths to lie to people who they have kidnapped and imprisoned, even tortured and executed. Exactly why should we believe anything they say?

Ethan has seen it with his own two eyes. How exactly can you dispute that? Come on..there's only episode 8-10 left. They've explained that the year is 4028, if you want to deny that until the end, then that is your choice.

 

If you believe that the ruins of Boise, Idaho that Ethan saw were not real, then you have to doubt every single thing he has seen and heard. If you want to ignore the quarters dated 2095, then ignore other things that have been presented by the same people. It is right in our faces, at this point, it's pointless to deny this one point when there are other more reasonable issues to criticize (like why was Pilcher's hair cut short in that rainy meeting with Hassler in Seattle if the flashback to Group A going nuts had Pilcher with messy longer hair).

 

At the very least, it is 2014 + 12 years seeing how Kate has aged, has been counting her time in WP, and didn't see Bill Evans for years. Same for the real estate guy, he slept with Pam, then he wasn't awoken till years later and saw her much older.

 

How would Pilcher fake the destroyed outside world exactly? He had no way of knowing the exact spot Ethan would see, so he could not fake ruins for hundreds of miles. It makes no sense. 

 

Bottom line: If anyone wants to still doubt that it is 4028 in WP even though it has been witnessed and accepted by the main character, then you must doubt it all. You can't pick and choose what to believe.

Edited July 7, 2015 by grandemocha

[dlr]

How would Pilcher fake the destroyed outside world exactly? He had no way of knowing the exact spot Ethan would see, so he could not fake ruins for hundreds of miles. It makes no sense. 

Didn't he find a map or something to follow? This could have been a plant to get him to go a certain way. Also, to me Pilcher didn't seem that worried when waiting at the helicopter for Ethan to get in. If I were him I would have been in the chopper much faster!

 

But most likely it is 4096 and all the things we see that make no sense or are not possible are just the result of a sub-par story or its translation to TV. I am hoping that there is more, and that there is a more logical and believable twist or so, but we'll see.

Edited July 7, 2015 by dlr

[grandemocha]

 

Didn't he find a map or something to follow? This could have been a plant to get him to go a certain way.

He found the map on Bill Evan's dead, mutilated body. It was well hidden in Bill Evan's boot, so if Pilcher had known about it, he could have easily removed it when Pope killed him. No logical reason to keep it there. Pilcher didn't know about it, no one but Beverley did.

Edited July 7, 2015 by grandemocha

[jhlipton]

Let me preface all of this by saying that I think it's 4028...
 

They probably found the quarter when they rebuilt Wayward Pines -- because WP most likely continued to operate as a town until civilization finally fell (sometime after the 2096 date on that quarter), and they would have had to excavate the entire town and completely rebuild starting with underground power, water and sewer lines.  So with all that digging, they probably found lots of buried crap including quarters.

 
They did all this digging and all they found was one quarter that looked like a State Quarter (which doesn't make any sense).  There's a road sign that's survived intact, but they didn't find anything at all when they dug up the town?  At the very least, there should have strata, with artifacts from The Fall of Everything on back to whenever WP was first settled.  That's how archaeology works!
 
And, yes, the burden of proof is on the producers.  If Sleepy Hollow can convince me that Ben Franklin followed Victor von Frankenstein's notes to build a creature, if Sens8 can convince me that a Korean woman in prison can fight off a Kenyan gang boss, if Once Upon a Time can convince me that Rumpelstiltskin is Snow White's father-in-law, this show should be able to convince me that it's 4028.
 

He found the map on Bill Evan's dead, mutilated body. It was well hidden in Bill Evan's boot, so if Pilcher had known about it, he could have easily removed it when Pope killed him. No logical reason to keep it there. Pilcher didn't know about it, no one but Beverley did.

 
He found the map on Bill's body which had been placed in the Decrepit House by Pope.  He retrieved the map after Pope made sure that Ethan had been stalled, and knew that Ethan was on the way to the morgue.  I thought at the time (even before all this time silliness) that the map was a plant.  I noticed when Ethan looked at the packet of notes, there was a lot of writing in addition to the map, but none of that was ever mentioned.  (If I have time, I'll try to grab a screen-shot.)
 
Did Ethan show the map to Beverly in the cemetery?  I don't recall -- her reaction to it would be interesting.

Edited July 8, 2015 by jhlipton

[lucindabelle]

I suspect we're supposed to accept what Pilcher said, but "Planet of the Apes" or even "Logan's Run" it is NOT. It's full of silly holes that don't bear looking at too closely. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, up to a point, if things make sense. This doesn't. I'll still watch in the sure-to-be-disappointed hope that there's more to come with the twist.

 

But I doubt it.

[grandemocha]

 

I suspect we're supposed to accept what Pilcher said, but "Planet of the Apes" or even "Logan's Run" it is NOT. It's full of silly holes that don't bear looking at too closely. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, up to a point, if things make sense. This doesn't. I'll still watch in the sure-to-be-disappointed hope that there's more to come with the twist.

That is putting ALOT of pressure on what is supposed to be just a fun summer show. If I recall, no one involved with the show (actors and up) ever claimed Wayward Pines was supposed to be some kind of masterpiece that will be discussed decades later like Planet of the Apes or Logan's Run.. 

 

85% of everything that has happened on the show so far makes perfect sense to me. Of course I'm just watching to enjoy it, but I don't see the endless plot holes that some do. If Character A B C and D say something is so (example: the year is 4028) then I believe it because it is the simplest explanation.

 

 

If Sleepy Hollow can convince me that Ben Franklin followed Victor von Frankenstein's notes to build a creature, if Sens8 can convince me that a Korean woman in prison can fight off a Kenyan gang boss, if Once Upon a Time can convince me that Rumpelstiltskin is Snow White's father-in-law

OT: Sleepy Hollow was a hot mess in Season 2 IMO. The show absolutely fell apart plot wise, storylines didn't make sense, actors got pissed, some left, show runners were replaced. Mess of a show after a promising first season.

 

Snow White's father in law is not Rumplestiltskin. So I'm not sure why you think that. We actually have not been introduced to Charming's father so far on the show, just his mother on the farm (Ruth). Rumplestiltskin only had one child, Neal. Clearly many shows can lead to confusion among viewers, not just Wayward Pines.

Edited July 8, 2015 by grandemocha

[KDeFlane]

I noticed when Ethan looked at the packet of notes, there was a lot of writing in addition to the map, but none of that was ever mentioned.  (If I have time, I'll try to grab a screen-shot.)

 

We might have mentioned it in that episode's thread at the time.  The notes I could read were all lists of names of people in town and their status to Bill.

Examples:

Arlene - Sheriff's secretary, ONE OF THEM?

Hecter ... NOT Responsive

Megan Fisher - NOT Responsive, TEACHER

Kate Hewson Ballinger, NOT Responsive, LOST CAUSE

Beverly Brown - Responsive YES

etc.

 

OT: ... Snow White's father in law is not Rumplestiltskin. ... Rumplestiltskin only had one child, Neal.

To add to the off-topic comment,

Neal (born Baelfire) never actually married Emma Swan (daughter of Snow White), so I wouldn't even call Rumple and the Charmings in-laws, legally, but emotionally they are related as grandparents-in-law to Henry, son of Emma and Neal.

[lucindabelle]

That is putting ALOT of pressure on what is supposed to be just a fun summer show. If I recall, no one involved with the show (actors and up) ever claimed Wayward Pines was supposed to be some kind of masterpiece that will be discussed decades later like Planet of the Apes or Logan's Run.. 

 

85% of everything that has happened on the show so far makes perfect sense to me. Of course I'm just watching to enjoy it, but I don't see the endless plot holes that some do. If Character A B C and D say something is so (example: the year is 4028) then I believe it because it is the simplest explanation.

 

OT: Sleepy Hollow was a hot mess in Season 2 IMO. The show absolutely fell apart plot wise, storylines didn't make sense, actors got pissed, some left, show runners were replaced. Mess of a show after a promising first season.

 

Snow White's father in law is not Rumplestiltskin. So I'm not sure why you think that. We actually have not been introduced to Charming's father so far on the show, just his mother on the farm (Ruth). Rumplestiltskin only had one child, Neal. Clearly many shows can lead to confusion among viewers, not just Wayward Pines.

 

Planet of the Apes, granted. Logan's Run? lots of it was filmed in a mall. It had very little to do with the novel. But the point is that it too is set in a weird dystopian future with an "out' that people are trying to get to... and made SO much more sense. Turns out the dire predictions about youth culture were wrong, but it had a resonance at the time I guess (I was too young to be part of it in 76).

 

10 episodes is 10 hours of my time, and for that I expect a cogent dystopian future story that makes sense. I can follow it all, it's not a question of intelligence, it's about big fat gaping plot holes. The gaslighting in first episode doesn't jibe with the "we need you" we're being given now. Kate not noticing that her lover and son haven't aged in 12 years is beyond illogical, it's actually kinda ridiculous when you pause to think about it. I mean the British series "In the Flesh" did a LOT more with fewer episodes. It's possible to have a smart premise that has no obvious holes and trickery with way fewer than 10 episodes.

 

A summer blockbuster, whether a film or tv show, should make sense. It doesn't have to have huge production values or be ground breaking but it should make sense.

[Free]

 

That is putting ALOT of pressure on what is supposed to be just a fun summer show.

 

Idk, there are better and worse Summer shows just like there are in the regular season.

[photo fox]

Ethan has seen it with his own two eyes. How exactly can you dispute that?

Oh, quite easily. They built themselves an out with Ethan's comment to Kate early on referencing some history of hallucinations/fugue state/whatever.

They've explained that the year is 4028, if you want to deny that until the end, then that is your choice.

Yep, and it's a perfectly valid one.

I think it's probably 4028. But I think it's completely reasonable given the many, many holes in that story to try to come up with an alternate version that would fill those holes. So far, the story we've been told doesn't make sense. Whether that's because there's another twist coming, or just because it's poorly written, remains to be seen.

That said, I'm still enjoying the show. I just don't look at it too closely. It's like a dive bar - best viewed late at night and slightly buzzed.

[slothgirl]

Whether that's because there's another twist coming, or just because it's poorly written, remains to be seen.

 

Unfortunately, I'm fairly convinced that it's just poorly written.

 

If they do have a big twist saved for the end, it's going to feel "Bobby in Shower" at this point... a cheap "Haha! Gotcha" rather than a thought provoking reveal.

[jhlipton]

I'm mainly enjoying the episodes. It's mindless summer viewing that keeps me intrigued for the majority of the time.

 

Brought over to the Theories thread.

[SlackerInc]

Unfortunately, I'm fairly convinced that it's just poorly written.

 

If they do have a big twist saved for the end, it's going to feel "Bobby in Shower" at this point... a cheap "Haha! Gotcha" rather than a thought provoking reveal.

 

Right, that would be worse than any of the plot holes people are pointing out (some of which are fairly bad, others more rinky-dink).  It is what it is.

[JenE4]

Because there are only 3 episodes left in the series, it wouldn't make any sense for it NOT to be 4028. This is the premise of the show, folks. It's science fiction--emphasis on the fiction.

[Free]

Unfortunately, I'm fairly convinced that it's just poorly written.

 

If they do have a big twist saved for the end, it's going to feel "Bobby in Shower" at this point... a cheap "Haha! Gotcha" rather than a thought provoking reveal.

 

Exactly, another 'twist' would render the previous one pointless.  As for the show, I feel like it would completely collapse into Under the Dome territory if they try to drag this out any further than this season.

[janie jones]

How is that the fault of the show or the writers though? They (creators, writers, characters) have said that they are in the future (4028) so so many times and in so many different ways and you still have some people who stubbornly refuse to believe it..because IDK why? Because they'd rather have it be aliens, insanity, the government, or a dream?

 

I think people have grown so used to outlandish and super exaggerated explanations that when something is presented straightforward, they're suddenly displeased & nitpick.

I saw The Truth before my husband did, and when I was telling him about it, I said something like, "Either that's not what's really going on, or this is the stupidest show I've ever seen."

 

It's not that I don't believe what they're saying, but for me it's a whole lot of "That's stupid and here's why," combined with the fact that if it all turns out not to be the truth, I won't be the least bit surprised because of all the things that have been said and done that make absolutely no sense.

[Free]

 

I saw The Truth before my husband did, and when I was telling him about it, I said something like, "Either that's not what's really going on, or this is the stupidest show I've ever seen."

 

It's not that I don't believe what they're saying, but for me it's a whole lot of "That's stupid and here's why," combined with the fact that if it all turns out not to be the truth, I won't be the least bit surprised because of all the things that have been said and done that make absolutely no sense.

 

 

Basically, but that was also what I was worried about, especially if your show essentially hinges on a plot twist like that.

[alias1]

 

It's not that I don't believe what they're saying, but for me it's a whole lot of "That's stupid and here's why," combined with the fact that if it all turns out not to be the truth, I won't be the least bit surprised because of all the things that have been said and done that make absolutely no sense.

This is exactly the problem I see with the show. 

[Clanstarling]

..Or, all they needed was a sharp knife/switchblade because Beverley's throat really was slit and she really did bleed out. I suppose Bill Evan's rotting corpse was faked with makeup and flies that were programmed to be on his skin? And Beverley is really just a devoted actress who was told to play dead in that one house until Ethan found her and cut her down?

 

As LEGALEAGLE53 said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. 

That may well be. I have no investment in it one way or another. I'm actually inclined to take the deaths as they're presented. But I don't see the harm in pointing out there are ways to convince people that something is true when in fact it is smoke and mirrors. Which applies both to Wayward Pineans, and the television audience.

 

If we take it as a given that the technology exists to keep people in suspended animation for thousands years, then it is possible that other technologies exist which would enable the powers that be to have some high level bait and switch technology.

 

I'm keeping my options open. As the feather duster said to Lumiere in Beauty and the Beast (Disney) - "I've been burned by *TV* before."

 

Edited to clarify that I meant television and not an individual.

Edited July 9, 2015 by clanstarling

[radishcake]

Let's please focus on the show and it's problems or pluses. All opinions are welcome here and calling out posters is a no go. Thanks for keeping it civil!

[jhlipton]

If we take it as a given that the technology exists to keep people in suspended animation for thousands years, then it is possible that other technologies exist which would enable the powers that be to have some high level bait and switch technology.

 

For sure.  The "Abbies Eat a Deer" scene could have been done on a green screen, and they could have hologram projectors in key spots -- if anyone wanders into the selected area, a "ruined city" is projected for them to see.  Since Ethan doesn't know where WP is in relation to Boise, he could have been looking in the totally wrong direction.  (How convenient is it that WP is close enough to Boise to see burned out buildings, but not close enough to take a team to investigate...)

[Clanstarling]

That may well be. I have no investment in it one way or another. I'm actually inclined to take the deaths as they're presented. But I don't see the harm in pointing out there are ways to convince people that something is true when in fact it is smoke and mirrors. Which applies both to Wayward Pineans, and the television audience.

 

If we take it as a given that the technology exists to keep people in suspended animation for thousands years, then it is possible that other technologies exist which would enable the powers that be to have some high level bait and switch technology.

 

I'm keeping my options open. As the feather duster said to Lumiere in Beauty and the Beast (Disney) - "I've been burned by *TV* before."

 

Edited to clarify that I meant television and not an individual.

I apologize if the quote seemed to indicate an individual - I made a direct quote and didn't think to alter it. I was by no means calling out anyone.

Edited July 9, 2015 by clanstarling

[SlackerInc]

For sure.  The "Abbies Eat a Deer" scene could have been done on a green screen, and they could have hologram projectors in key spots -- if anyone wanders into the selected area, a "ruined city" is projected for them to see.  Since Ethan doesn't know where WP is in relation to Boise, he could have been looking in the totally wrong direction.  (How convenient is it that WP is close enough to Boise to see burned out buildings, but not close enough to take a team to investigate...)

 

That could be an interesting scenario.  I am positive it's not what's going to happen though, and that there will never be anything presented on the show to contradict its being the 41st century.  (I'm not spoiled, I just feel certain.)

[JenE4]

Granted, a LOT doesn't measure up. (If we don't find out where they get the buffalo meat from after they spent 15 minutes reviewing the Beirgarten's buffalo burger, I'm writing my local congressman.) But, as I said before, I'm not analyzing the science part of the science fiction, rather handwaving as the emphasis on fiction. So I'm not measuring the amount of tarnish on the quarter as "proof" that 2000 years didn't pass, etc. However, what would give me pause is that Kate was told it was a government experiment, we know Hassler at the Secret Service was involved with Pilcher, and Ethan had a series of hallucinations while working in the secret service, so to me THAT would be the one tinge that it's possibly not 4028 but rather a government hallucinatory experiment.

[jhlipton]

That could be an interesting scenario.  I am positive it's not what's going to happen though, and that there will never be anything presented on the show to contradict its being the 41st century.  (I'm not spoiled, I just feel certain.)

 

I'm certain that it's the 41st century, too.  I'm just pointing out that it's not exactly a given.  

 

The sloppy, lazy writing (not just in the science, but in the characterization) actually makes me more certain that it's the 41st century -- these guys couldn't pull off a big switcheroo.  And "It's a summer show" doesn't cut it for me.  I want something that rises above mediocre fanfiction even in the summer!

[Milburn Stone]

We enjoy the show, and I seldom endorse the use of the term "sloppy writing." Writing a show is hard, and I can say with almost absolute certainty that the story construction here, if imperfect, is driven by conscientious effort--which is the opposite of sloppiness.

 

That said, I think the show probably does benefit not from its summer-ness (TV knows no calendar now), but from the fact that it comes at a moment regardless of calendar when we happen to be "between" shows that are must-see TV. True Detective is turning out not to be that great, and other shows of quality are on hiatus for the time being. This does nicely in the meantime.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[lucindabelle]

I'd say the writing in each episode is fine but the sloppiness is in continuity. What happened in episode one makes no sense when reflected on by episode 5.

So sloppy show running then. Or poor communication.

And frankly sub par world building.

[radishcake]

I'd say the writing in each episode is fine but the sloppiness is in continuity. What happened in episode one makes no sense when reflected on by episode 5.

So sloppy show running then. Or poor communication.

And frankly sub par world building.

I'd say a LOT of this was in trying to cram three full books that probably have a lot more characterization & context into 10 episodes. Especially the world building. There's only so many corners you can cut before stuff becomes utterly incomprehensible. 

[Free]

I'd say a LOT of this was in trying to cram three full books that probably have a lot more characterization & context into 10 episodes. Especially the world building. There's only so many corners you can cut before stuff becomes utterly incomprehensible. 

 

It'll get worse if they try to make up their own material if they try to continue past this season.

[Milburn Stone]

I'd say the writing in each episode is fine but the sloppiness is in continuity.

 

 

For me the one continuity "error" that I haven't completely given up hope on receiving a logical explanation for is Pilcher's thinning hair in 2014 Seattle. If we do get an explanation, it won't turn out to have been an error. If we don't, then there'll be no other explanation than sloppy continuity.

 

Everything else, I chalk up to dramatic license. I guess one person's dramatic license is another person's sloppy writing.

 

I think the truth is that writers often perform "sleight of hand." They spin a yarn that is so enthralling that only later do people say, "Hey, but wait a minute...How did?...WTF?..." In this case, people are saying those things while the yarn is still being spun. Maybe better shows than this one get away with it better. But those shows are still getting away with something.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[jhlipton]

I think the truth is that writers often perform "sleight of hand." They spin a yarn that is so enthralling that only later do people say, "Hey, but wait a minute...How did?...WTF?..." In this case, people are saying those things while the yarn is still being spun. Maybe better shows than this one get away with it better. But those shows are still getting away with something.

 

I think with better shows, it's "You know what? That was such a fun ride, I don't care!"

 

Take, for instance, the "Franklinstein" from Sleepy Hollow.  Nothing about that episode bears much critical thought, but it was a hoot to watch! Good shows get away with "sleight of hand" because they encourage the viewers to get behind the sleight-of-hand.

 

Two magicians can do the exact same trick, but one will get applause and the other cat-calls -- it's all in presentation.  Wayward Pines is a competent but not very flashy magician, who doesn't build up his tricks very well.  And when the magician is introduced in association with Penn & teller (the magic world's equivalent of M Night Shyamalan), expectations are even higher. Half the audience is saying "Not bad -- seen better, but a fun way to spend the evening."  The other half is saying "Is that all there is?  I could have been re-watching ____ on Hulu or Netflix!"  

[Free]

 

I could have been re-watching ____ on Hulu or Netflix!"

 

 It probably would've been better as a binge watch.

 

 

And when the magician is introduced in association with Penn & teller (the magic world's equivalent of M Night Shyamalan)

 

What a coincidence.

 

 

Wayward Pines is a competent but not very flashy magician, who doesn't build up his tricks very well.

 

Exactly, I think part of the problem is that the series relies on the twist and not much else, so after it happened, there's not much else to look forward to.  I really don't care about the rebel/Pilcher/abbies or any of the bland characters for that matter who are just there to service the plot and nothing else imo.

[Tabasco Cat]

It'll get worse if they try to make up their own material if they try to continue past this season.

 

That's exactly what happened with Resurrection last year. The first season had a lot of promise but when they got the green light for a second season they had to wing it, depart from the original story that was in the book. And they failed miserably. It happens all the time.

 

Exactly, I think part of the problem is that the series relies on the twist and not much else, so after it happened, there's not much else to look forward to.  I really don't care about the rebel/Pilcher/abbies or any of the bland characters for that matter who are just there to service the plot and nothing else imo.

 

There could be an old nuclear missile silo with a failsafe/doomsday warhead under Plot 33 and it could go off and obliterate everyone and everything in WP and I really couldn't care less. I think the number of times I would think, "Good riddance!" would easily outnumber any of the characters I might even feel a little sympathetic towards. Funny, I can't even think of any in the latter category right now.

 

Edit: Probably not even a nuke would survive 2,000 years without maintenance, although the half life of Pu is 24,000 years. Maybe.... nah, that would also be more interesting than what we're going to get.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Tabasco Cat

[jhlipton]

I think the number of times I would think, "Good riddance!" would easily outnumber any of the characters I might even feel a little sympathetic towards. Funny, I can't even think of any in the latter category right nowI

Is there anyone for whom we think "I wonder what they think?" or "What would they do if..."?  Look at the Sens8 forum -- we have all sorts of hopes and desires for these characters, because we know them.  We know what they want and what they fear.  What does Kate want her relationship with Theresa to be like?  I don't know, and don't much care.

 

Now, compare that with 2 scenes from Sense8. In the first, Lito, a closeted Mexican actor (who fears his being gay would ruin his career) flirts with a bartender, but when the man behind the bar leans in to kiss him, Lito pushes him away declaring violently "I am not gay!"  Some time later, he comes back to the bar. and apologizes to the barkeep, telling him that he is very attractive, but that Lito has a love that he must atone to.  Not only do we feel for Lito -- in the first scene, because we feel his divided emotions; in the second for his passion toward Hernando -- we also get a glimpse into the bartender -- we see him begin to long for a passion, a love, as strong as Lito's.

 

Good writing and good acting can do this -- make us feel (love, hate and everything in between) -- for people we only see for a few minutes.  This was not a show heavily promoted (previews on every episode of Empire, for example), with a crew not near so famous as M Night Shyamalan (J. Michael Straczynsk of Babylon 5, and the Wachowski's of The Matrix) and no big stars (the most famous is Naveen Andrews from Lost).  But it worked!  Because the cast and crew put their heart, and talent, into it.  I don't feel anywhere near that passion in WP, and if you're not passionate about your art (even a "summer show"), don't expect anyone else to be either.

[lucindabelle]

First season sleepy hollow was so fun and silly and fast moving even the people speaking high Dutch centuries after the great vowel shift didn't bother me.

But here were being asked to accept a subsistence culture where nobody farms, where a mother was separated from her kid just because, where people KNOW they are living a lie but told just not to talk about it, where in one episode Ethan is about to have his brain operated on and in another he's being told he should be a leader because he's a good man.not to mention someone. Not noticing her lovers child hasn't grown up in 12 years.

That's not sleight of hand and that's not over compressions that's sloppy.

[Free]

 

That's exactly what happened with Resurrection last year. The first season had a lot of promise but when they got the green light for a second season they had to wing it, depart from the original story that was in the book. And they failed miserably. It happens all the time.

 

Ugh, I remember the sudden change in direction for S2 and turned into a weird mess.

[SlackerInc]

I'd say the writing in each episode is fine but the sloppiness is in continuity. What happened in episode one makes no sense when reflected on by episode 5.

So sloppy show running then. Or poor communication.

And frankly sub par world building.

I think this is a pretty good observation. Individual episodes are definitely above average for summer network TV as long as you don't think too hard about what happened a few episodes back.

[Free]

 

Individual episodes are definitely above average for summer network TV as long as you don't think too hard about what happened a few episodes back.

 

But then there's no point then, as the big twist relied on the build/set up from the previous episodes.  Unless this is going to turn into a procedural, continuity should matter for serialized shows even for Summer shows.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Free