Prince Charming: I will find them. I will always find them!

[Mari]

And the funny thing was, I feel like he managed to give the impression that he felt like there was something wrong about being douchy David Nolan, like he was going through the motions because something was making him, and a lot of the bad behavior came from some part of him desperately trying to resist. Like, I don't think the David Nolan personality would have actually had the spine to stray and hook up with Mary Margaret. He'd have been more the passive-aggressive "yes, dear" kind of husband who just sulks along unhappily without ever doing anything about it because he's afraid of conflict. Having an affair would have actually required more action than he'd have been able to bring himself to take. When David was with Mary Margaret, it was like he became Charming again, just for a moment.

This is some thing I think Dallas and the show got right.

 

It makes complete sense that his personality takeover never completely "took".  He didn't actually get it until after the curse started weakening.  Emma was there, and the curse wasn't completely in--I don't know?  Stasis?--any longer.

 

I think you're right, and he was not quite the David Nolan he would've been if Regina had personalitied him up at the beginning.

 

What I've never figured out is why she waited.  He was seriously--possibly mortally--wounded.  She didn't let him just die.  He was brought to Storybrooke and cared for, albeit permanently comaed.  Was she afraid that he'd find Snow anyway, or was that just the best translation the curse could find for his condition?

[Serena]

I think she just enjoyed seeing them so close but so definitely apart.

[Camera One]

What I've never figured out is why she waited.  He was seriously--possibly mortally--wounded.  She didn't let him just die.  He was brought to Storybrooke and cared for, albeit permanently comaed.  Was she afraid that he'd find Snow anyway, or was that just the best translation the curse could find for his condition?

 

I think there was this assumption back in S1 that Regina couldn't kill anyone who was transported over from the Curse, until Emma started time going again?  It just so happens that when the Curse broke into the nursery, Charming wasn't quite dead yet, so he was transported over and then in a coma.  

 

I agree it makes no sense why Regina didn't kill Charming, but it's probably impossible to explain what needed to be the premise of the show.  Logically, Regina should have finished Charming off in the nursery itself and maybe injured Snow as well.  And then in Storybrooke, she should have thrown Snow into the mental asylum, with the memory that Charming had been killed.  

 

I'm so glad ABC stopped Adam and Eddy from killing Charming.  This is supposed to be a fairy tale show, and we already don't get to follow through on any of the happy endings as it is (unless it's Regina).  It would have been a downer and it would have completely taken away the magic if Prince Charming had died.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Camera One

[InsertWordHere]

IDK, by Regina logic, I think she wanted him around so Snow could suffer but not know why she suffered. One of the first things she does is take Mary Margaret to see the comatose John Doe.

[Serena]

Regina couldn't have finished off Charming in the nursery because of that spell Rumple did that protected him. Not that I think A&E had already thought of that spell at the time.

[stealinghome]

I agree it makes no sense why Regina didn't kill Charming, but it's probably impossible to explain what needed to be the premise of the show.

Theoretically Regina couldn't harm Charming because of the spell cast in 2x10. Though why she didn't just have one of the Black Knights run him through is a different question....

 

I also think it makes more sense when you remember that in initial planning/scripts, he was supposed to die. But I'm glad he didn't too--there's no way Snow White could get a happy ending without Prince Charming!

[MedievalGirl]

Considering Regina twice indicated she found Charming attractive ... Nevermind, I don't want to think about Regina's relationship with consent. 

During the first season I remember reading a commentary on the show that referred to David Nolan as a drifter. I was offended at first but it really made sense. "Drifting is the opposite of "always find you"

I don't think the reveal of David's name being David was inconsequential. He was being chased by a giant. I found that hilarious. David and Goiliath!

[stealinghome]

My take on it has always been that they had thought they would give him a different name and/or make the name reveal more important, but when they decided not to do that, they wanted to make a joke out of how long they kept his real name under wraps.

[Rumsy4]

Am I just making the connection between the biblical King David, who was called a shepherd-king (and who was a shepherd before he became king), and Prince Charming/David?? 

[stealinghome]

Don't forget that the Biblical David fought a giant, too! ;)

[Souris]

Golfing buddies!

[bettername2come]

And now I want to see them all golfing on the show.

[BaggythePanther]

Am I just making the connection between the biblical King David, who was called a shepherd-king (and who was a shepherd before he became king), and Prince Charming/David??

Don't forget that the Biblical David fought a giant, too! ;)

And Biblical David had an ancescestor named Ruth and there's a Christian belief that the savior was one of his descendents.

They just went crazy with Biblical allegories.

[KingOfHearts]

The symbol of Charming's kingdom has a lion on it. King David in the Bible comes from the tribe of Judah, which also has a lion for its symbol. There's also Charming's brother James and his wife's alias Mary, which are both biblical names.

 

Charming slays a dragon and becomes royalty, similarly to David killing Goliath and becoming a royal officer. Both King Saul and King George in Once were conceited kings who despised and envied Charming/David. Charming eventually rules George's kingdom, and David eventually rules Saul's.

 

Guess what David's wife in the Bible was named... Abigail!

 

David married Abigail because her husband had died. Her husband's death is described as "his heart failed him and he became like a stone". Frederick on Once also became like stone when he turned into gold!

 

I'd also like to mention that David cuts off Goliath's head as a token of his defeat, like Charming cuts off the dragon's head.

Edited July 24, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[BaggythePanther]

It feels like in season one when A&E found out they had to keep Charming they just decided to rewrite the Bible.

[Souris]

There's a rumor going around the interwebs that Josh was injured on set. I have no clue where it started or if it's remotely true. He may have a splinter, who knows. So just take that for what's it's worth (Iikely not much).

 

ETA: Adam just tweeted Josh would be at Comic Con, so nothing serious if it's even true.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Souris

[stealinghome]

Supposedly he's canceled a signing or two at Comic-Con. (Standard disclaimer of who knows how reliable the source is.) But yeah, if he's still going in general, it can't be that bad.

[Souris]

Maybe he hurt his hand and can't sign autographs, but is perfectly fine to travel and answer questions?

[KAOS Agent]

There's this random gif set that's come through recently of David through the seasons and I have spent an inordinate amount of time evaluating his hair in them. I think I might have a problem. That said, I've decided I'm not a fan of the short look from the Snow Falls era. 

[Souris]

Ken ‏@pursuit23  47m

Josh Dallas looked visibly hurt on his signing hand but still signed for us #ouat

 

Katrina Tan ‏@katmtan  24m
So there's this rumor that Josh got hurt on set, he has a bandage on his finger. #ThatsIt! He is okay!!

[wingster55]

It's possible he just wanted to minimize his time as much as possible so he could go back to Ginny and his child.

[Camera One]

This was one of the cautionary tales where actually getting a centric episode may not be a good thing and can get your character knocked down a peg.  In three seasons, I have NEVER seen Charming as a coward.  Isn't that supposed to be Rumple's thing?  Yet they had Anna call Charming out on his "cowardice" in this episode, and apparently it was such a huge transformation in his personality that Ruth even told Anna that she changed Charming and he's "different" now.  Give me a break!

 

The situation they created was reminiscent of the Rumple one in "Desperate Souls".  Rumple/Charming was being bullied and they were soooo weak they couldn't fight back/stand up to the bullies, until someone encouraged them to, with varying results.  If they wanted to do the same thing as Rumple, they could have had Charming transform into The Evil Peep after holding Bo Beep's staff.

 

In some ways, the cowardice thing started in 3B with the writers deciding Charming could be the Cowardly Lion equivalent and have his courage stolen.  But at least in "The Tower", it was a specific fear, of not being a good father.  

 

As I mentioned in the episode thread, why didn't they at least qualify Charming's emotional slump if they had to make Anna the cheerleader.  Maybe have Charming's dad die the month before and Charming was feeling down and lacking in confidence since his father had managed the finances or whatever.  And also give Bo Peep more than two guards and have Charming use his intelligence to bring her down, not just going up and fighting two men at once with a sword he picked up for the first time the day before.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I was watching the bonus feature set tour with Ginnifer Goodwin and Josh Dallas.  It's not Snow White, it's Josh Dallas who has the lips red as blood.  

[Camera One]

I was watching part of "Snow White" today and I laughed when I heard the Prince singing about their one heart.  Listening to the serenade, the Evil Queen had the same expression as Regina when she was jealous about Snow's horse racing ribbons.  This show is wonderful at making 2D Cartoon characters feel more three-dimensional.  

Edited March 5, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Thanks for making the annual Charming thread post, Camera One!

 

 

I was watching part of "Snow White" today and I laughed when I heard the Prince singing about their one heart.  Listening to the serenade, the Evil Queen had the same expression as Regina when she was jealous about Snow's horse racing ribbons.  This show is wonderful at making 2D Cartoon characters feel more three-dimensional.

 

I agree. This show does an ample job of taking bland princes like Charming and giving them an actual personality. The original Disney movie doesn't give much to work with. 

[Camera One]

LOL, I didn't even notice no one else made a post in 2015.  Poor neglected Charming... 

[KAOS Agent]

Maybe he'll get some more play now that the writers have a shiny new toy who wears the same face as David but who is not a hero and thus, less boring in their eyes. No need to worry about actor availability and any appearances by James can be a surprise since Josh Dallas is already credited.

Edited March 5, 2016 by KAOS Agent

[HoodlumSheep]

Maybe he'll get some more play now that the writers have a shiny new toy who wears the same face as David but who is not a hero and thus, less boring in their eyes. No need to worry about actor availability and any appearances by James can be a surprise since Josh Dallas is already credited.

I'm looking forward to the Charming stuff in 5b. He didn't do much in 5a, besides the stuff in 5x03 (which I enjoyed). Even if his centrics typically lean on the weaker side, I still enjoy them.

[Rumsy4]

More recently, I do think Charming partly played along with Cruella as a response to finding out that James had kissed Snow. 

 

I thought so too. I was disappointed that his reaction to finding out James had kissed Snow against her will was to ask her how he kissed (um... ew). But this kind of mild sexism is typical of Charming. He punched Whale for sleeping with Mary Margaret while cursed. He wanted a son (not that he dislikes having a daughter--but he does have that patriarchal preference for a son). His overprotective dad speech to Hook in 4A. Not saying it makes him a misogynist. But I think this is definitely a flaw in his character, and I wish the writers would explore it more. Sadly, such things are typically just played for laughs in this Show. 

[InsertWordHere]

I think the writers got a positive response early on with one line said by Charming, "you slept with Whale?!" so now they try to recreate it whenever possible. He's likely always had the thought in the back of his head that maybe things would have been easier for Snow had she been with James instead. James was the one raised to be a prince, after all, while David was just a lowly shepherd. Maybe she wouldn't have been cursed or lost her daughter or had any of these things happen had she married James. Maybe George would have let James marry Snow if he wanted and not force the engagement with Abigail. So the insecurity about James makes sense to me. However, I don't understand why he seems to almost blame Snow when these things happen. It was Charming, not Snow, who was engaged to another when they met. He didn't seem to find out about Hercules until recently, so it's not that he's always been judging himself unworthy of her compared to her demi-god first boyfriend. 

[Rumsy4]

 

However, I don't understand why he seems to almost blame Snow when these things happen.

 

That's a good point about James. David also had this moment in S2 where he wondered whether he would have turned out like James if he had been the one brought up by king George. But Charming does seem to be a little insecure when it comes to Snow. It's not like Snow or Frederick went around punching Kathryn and David after the Dark Curse broke.

 

But I think you're right that the writers were merely attempting to recreate that "funny" moment from S2. The writers probably think it adds to the "drama". Like when David dialed up his verbal attacks on Hook in Good Form, so it would be in contrast to him praising Hook for saving his life later in the same episode. Or the numerous times he has side-eyed Hook, while seemingly not bothered by Neal. It's hard to know what's really going on in Charming's mind in such cases. 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Rumsy4

[mjgchick]

Maybe Charming was that way with Hook because he felt dirty for liking someone like Hook. Or that old Elementary thing where a boy likes a girl he likes to hit her? lol

 

One things for sure, David would suck at being a Bailbonds person or PI. He couldn't fake it with Cruella at all. Hehe.

[KAOS Agent]

David seems like kind of a prude. His reaction to the handcuffs seemed a little over the top. He called it repulsive. 

[YaddaYadda]

David seems like kind of a prude. His reaction to the handcuffs seemed a little over the top. He called it repulsive. 

 

I'm pretty sure David never held hands with a girl until he met Abigail.

[Rumsy4]

David seems like kind of a prude. His reaction to the handcuffs seemed a little over the top. He called it repulsive. 

 

From the taco scene in S2, it seemed pretty clear that Snow White and Prince Charming were quite vanilla. Nothing wrong with that of course. :-)

[Camera One]

How much do you think David should apologize and kowtow to James?  Do you want to see James complete his unfinished business and "move on"?  

[Mari]

Absolutely none.

 

None of James' unfinished business is anything David is responsible for.  Everyone's life has something in it that they didn't like, or that they'll always wonder about, or that wasn't a good experience--and David was a baby, as well.  He didn't do any of the chosing, including the choices James made that ended his life early.

 

James may have wondered about his biological family, but he did it from the luxury and comfort of his palace and an apparently doting father, the king. From the bits we saw, James seemed to be rather spoiled.

 

David may have had the love of his biological mother, but (according to the--spit, spit--Anna flashback) had a drunken father and struggled with his mother to even provide food.  David's life wasn't sprinkles and daffodils, either.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Mari

[Camera One]

I kind of want to see a Prince and the Pauper flashback... maybe they could have David lose his memory of it or something.  

 

Maybe Boy David wanted to stay at the Palace, and that drove his father to start drinking, because he felt he wasn't good enough.

 

Meanwhile, while at the Palace, Boy David could also have been a total snitch, telling George that it was James' idea to switch places, which made George very angry and demanding on James thereafter.  George could constantly bring up that his twin brother was better than him, and if James didn't act like a Prince, he would be replaced with his brother.

 

James could be a male version of Jasmine, wanting to see the world and having new experiences (eg. his adventure with Jack), but feeling trapped by George and his demanding was.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Camera One

[Mari]

I'm just so tired of characters on this show being held responsible for things that were not their fault, and apologizing to people that were not their victims.  I'd like David and James to meet, but I'd like it not to be played as "I'm so sorry that you had to go and live in the palace and have everything you wanted while I got to stay on the farm and struggle not to be starved by mob boss, Bo Peep.  I totally wish it had been the other way around, because I didn't deserve to get the absolutely better deal, and it's my fault you were never, ever happy.  I should have waved my tiny baby fist and demanded that I be taken, instead."

 

Not that material goods can make up for not having a good, loving family.  But, while George (?) didn't like or approve of David, was I wrong in thinking it was because he wasn't James?  I thought that George did seem to love James, but it's been a while since I've seen those episodes and could be  way off.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Mari

[Camera One]

Another possibly humorous flashback would be if George had tried to set Teenage James up with Teenage Snow, who rejected him, but it ruined James' self esteem causing him to overcompensate by being cruel and womanizing when he grew up.  If you look really carefully, you could tell Snow and James knew each other in the 5B premiere.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

I found it odd that both Snow and Charming were complaining to Emma and Hook about missing out on Snowflake. Emma and Hook didn't ask them to come! They volunteered, and refused to leave with the boat Cora had arranged when Emma asked them to. And yet, Snow was asking Emma "When will be be leaving?" as though it was her fault they were stuck in the UW. And Charming was venting to Hook about missing out on his son's childhood. They knew the risks when they followed Emma on the Hook-rescue mission. It's not like they go suckered into it! Also, it's been like one week. Snowflake will be fine. Emma lost her whole childhood. Every time Snow and Charming keep comparing Emma's experiences with Snowflake right in front of Emma, I want to bean them on their heads for being so insensitive. And Snow--haunting Emma via telephone would have been no substitute for a whole childhood of being unwanted. It would have only made her think she was crazy.

 

I don't know if this is the writers' intention. But it definitely comes across as Snow and Charming have a stronger bond with Snowflake than Emma becasue they are actually raising him. Maybe that's natural. But it makes it all the more tragic for Emma. This is the first time Snow and Charming have rallied to bring Emma a Happy Ending, and they seem to be whining about it a lot. However, I'm happy that Charming apologized to Hook when he realized he was being a tad insensitive. And Snow actually being Snow merits her a lot of leeway.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

I can give them a pass on this because they look pretty torn. On the one hand, they really want to be there for Emma, on the other hand, yeah, they're scared that they are going to miss out on whatever with Do Over. Plus his crib is in the loft (they showed it yesterday), and it's empty which I'm sure isn't exactly comforting. And these people never have a plan. I can't believe they thought they would be gone for a day. A day? Really?

 

But it's also a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they hadn't gone with Emma, they would have been the worst ever. They went with her, and they're still the worst ever because they left their infant son behind. 

 

I think the most important thing to come out of this arc is that they most definitely approve of the relationship between Emma and Hook, and they have accepted him as part of their messed up family. Between Snow's heartfelt "love is worth it" and "You grew on me", they're there for Emma, but they're there for him too. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Camera One]

This is probably the only emotional stuff they can think of for Snowing in the Underworld.  Otherwise, they'll just stand in the background doing nothing.  They also had to play it up to explain Ginny leaving the show for a bit.  I agree it was a tad repetitive, but I don't hate the characters for it.  I think Emma understands (one of the reasons why she's so awesome).

[Rumsy4]

I don't hate them. lol I still love Snowing. I pretend the eggnapping never happened, of course. But I think you're right Camera One. This is the only drama they can think of besides having Sno give MM-like hope speeches. 

 

 

I think the most important thing to come out of this arc is that they most definitely approve of the relationship between Emma and Hook, and they have accepted him as part of their messed up family. Between Snow's heartfelt "love is worth it" and "You grew on me", they're there for Emma, but they're there for him too.

 

That is definitely a huge development. I hope this is the end of the Charmings flip flopping on whether to like Hook or not.

 

I do have to say, Ginny is continuing to channel "Snow White". I don't know what does it, but there is a clear difference from how she played boring old Mary Margaret. 

[Camera One]

I was so relieved Charming got to stay in the Underworld, since we still haven't seen him bump into James yet.  They're really making us wait on that one.  Having trouble finding a good enough body double?  

[KingOfHearts]

We haven't seen James since 5x12. If he's got a thirst for revenge, why has he been keeping quiet for days?

[Camera One]

Especially since you can bump into Cruella everywhere, but James is MIA.  He doesn't seem to be the type who shies away from confrontation.

[InsertWordHere]

And they are already paying the actor anyway!

[KAOS Agent]

 

Especially since you can bump into Cruella everywhere, but James is MIA.  He doesn't seem to be the type who shies away from confrontation.

 

She's just got him handcuffed to the bed. He'll get free eventually.

[Camera One]

So we thought they were waiting on James, but once he was finally on, they disposed of him within an hour.

It would have been interesting to explore David and James meeting their drunkard father.  Surely, he would have unfinished business. Though I think James would already have gotten to him to punish him.  

As someone said in the episode thread, it makes no sense that James' unfinished business is with David when he didn't even know about him before he died, and James was already a heralded hero.