Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[YaddaYadda]

I'm not sure that the hat plot has been entirely dropped.  I mean there are still some people in there who are still trapped, including the Apprentice whom we see in the promo for 416., so he has to come into play at some point especially with this talk of the Sorcerer who makes deals through his Apprentice.  I mean he opened the portal for Ingrid and gave her the Emma scroll and how to get to Storybrooke in exchange for having the hat back.

 

That being said, I feel like the Sorcerer is some sort of idiot to let his dangerous toys lie about.  It's like telling a crazy person that the red button on the machine will make the planet explode and leave them to their own devices. 

 

Regarding the whole dagger thing, if and big IF they do decide that Rumple as the Dark One is ending and they kill him off, whoever gets the Dark One's powers be it Emma or let's say Hook, the curse can be broken with a TLK, something that nearly worked for Belle and Rumple had he not stopped it.  I'm not sure it will happen though.  

 

I can't imagine what the RB fandom will look like if Rumple goes.  

[Curio]

Regarding the whole dagger thing, if and big IF they do decide that Rumple as the Dark One is ending and they kill him off, whoever gets the Dark One's powers be it Emma or let's say Hook, the curse can be broken with a TLK, something that nearly worked for Belle and Rumple had he not stopped it. I'm not sure it will happen though.  

 

This is why I thought that line about the dagger was more than a throwaway comment. I'm not necessarily saying I'd like to see Emma or Hook become the new Dark One, but if any couple on the show has a legitimate chance of destroying the Dark One Curse once and for all with a True Love's Kiss - which would actually be a pretty heroic act because it would prevent anyone else from ever becoming The Dark One in the future - it's those two.

 

I can't imagine what the RB fandom will look like if Rumple goes.

 

After everything the writers have done this season to break that relationship apart, they might actually be glad to see it officially end. Especially if Rumple does something sacrificial for Belle in the process and she forgives him at the last second.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

This is why I thought that line about the dagger was more than a throwaway comment. I'm not necessarily saying I'd like to see Emma or Hook become the new Dark One, but if any couple on the show has a legitimate chance of destroying the Dark One Curse once and for all with a True Love's Kiss - which would actually be a pretty heroic act because it would prevent anyone else from ever becoming The Dark One in the future - it's those two.

 

The line was a bit jarring for me when I was watching on Sunday.  It wasn't just that he mentioned they should have killed Rumple, it was also that Emma brought up the implication of what that meant if he ever did such a thing.  So, I do agree that if anyone has a real chance at destroying the Dark One's curse, it would be those two.  Emma is the Savior after all.

 

I still don't know how either Emma or Hook can live in the town where Rumple is though.  Hook sort of nearly lost his marbles when he pointed that gun at Ursula because he is basically terrified of what Rumple is up to and he can already see himself losing more to the man and he's not all that far off what with Rumple planning on filling Emma's heart with darkness and whatnot.  When he was talking to Ursula, his mind went straight to Rumple wants to kill Emma which in a way he will be doing if his plans for her workout.

 

So Rumple has already tried to put Emma in the hat and she would have been alive in the hat (and apparently greatly traumatized as was the Blue Fairy by whatever was in there) and then she would have died after Rumple enacts the spell to separate himself from the dagger all the while crushing Hook's heart.  So if he had been successful, he would have killed them both, end of story.

 

Storybrooke is just not big enough for those three.  I sort of keep going back to 3B when Rumple told both Emma and Hook that he would destroy them if they didn't get the dagger away from Zelena.  Yes, it was a threat that was a desperate plea and no one really cared about it because circumstances, but this season, Rumple is going there and he is pretty much after both Hook and Emma because they are his means to an end.  

 

I think the writers pretty much set the table for what we're seeing right now go down with Rumple and CS all the way in 3B.  Hook's buttons especially are being pushed really, really hard.  Rumple could have disguised himself as anyone in order to get the dagger back from Belle.

 

Emma's problems are going to be her parents, exacerbated by Rumple, but Hook's problem is Rumple.  There is no way any of them can go back to the status quo after that.  They wanna drive him out of town again, but that's going to be impossible to do.

 

Something's got to give.  

[Curio]

Emma's problems are going to be her parents, exacerbated by Rumple, but Hook's problem is Rumple. There is no way any of them can go back to the status quo after that. They wanna drive him out of town again, but that's going to be impossible to do.

 

Something's got to give.  

 

I'm glad they at least showed a shot of Emma looking at Hook when Snow/Regina revealed that Gold was back in town. That should be a huge freaking deal for Hook and Emma because that basically means Hook is a dead man walking. Like you said, there's no way Rumple, Hook, and Emma can all live in the same town after everything that has happened over the past year, so I expect something big to happen in the 4B finale between those three (since we were denied a huge confrontation in the 4A finale).

[Joanh23]

The tag line for Emma at the start of the season was "love is the most powerful magic of all" so I could see Emma becoming the dark one in the finale and Killian breaking the curse with TLK....

[Dani-Ellie]

The tag line for Emma at the start of the season was "love is the most powerful magic of all" so I could see Emma becoming the dark one in the finale and Killian breaking the curse with TLK....

 

If that is not how this pans out, I need someone to write the canon divergence fic, because I would read the hell out of that sucker.

[YaddaYadda]

The tag line for Emma at the start of the season was "love is the most powerful magic of all" so I could see Emma becoming the dark one in the finale and Killian breaking the curse with TLK....

Since we are throwing lines around ;)   (I don't know if this is better suited for the relationship thread), I'll go ahead and raise you two more.

 

Hook's tag line at the start of the season was "a man unwilling to fight for what he wants deserves what he gets".  I think we know he will be fighting hard for her.

 

The other one is from last year's season finale, the conversation between David and Hook.

"I'd go to the end of the world for her...or time."

"And she for you?"

"I don't know..."

 

Boom!

[Curio]

Sometimes, I don't like wandering into this thread because the ideas we come up with always end up being way cooler than what actually ends up on screen.

[RadioGirl27]

Sometimes, I don't like wandering into this thread because the ideas we come up with always end up being way cooler than what actually ends up on screen.

This, so much this, because:

The tag line for Emma at the start of the season was "love is the most powerful magic of all" so I could see Emma becoming the dark one in the finale and Killian breaking the curse with TLK....

I would love this so much.

[Rumsy4]

The tag line for Emma at the start of the season was "love is the most powerful magic of all" so I could see Emma becoming the dark one in the finale and Killian breaking the curse with TLK....

 

I totally want this to happen! But both 3B and 4A failed to delivery on the arcs they had built for Emma (that she was needed to defeat Zelena, and that she would be the key to bring down Ingrid). So, with all this buildup for Emma to turn Dark, I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow made it all about Regina again. After all, the whole Operation Mongoose is Regina's brainchild. 

[Curio]

Ugh...now you all have got me thinking about how cool it would be for Emma to battle Rumple head on and become the Dark One, and how she'd get that sparkly, lizard skin with the creepy eyes, and the irony behind the fact that the savior was the one who turned into the darkest being of them all, and then the other irony that Hook spent centuries of his life finding a way to destroy one Dark One only to have his True Love be the new Dark One and...ugh I need it. Edit: Just realized there's another piece of irony at play here. Ursula revealed that it's Rumple's plan to fill Emma's heart with darkness so that the villains can get their happy endings. But his plan could backfire on him if filling Emma's heart with darkness only motivates her to destroy Rumple and take on his Dark One title, which means he would have orchestrated his own downfall. Again.

 

So, with all this buildup for Emma to turn Dark, I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow made it all about Regina again. After all, the whole Operation Mongoose is Regina's brainchild. 

 

Oh no, you jinxed it! Now it's going to be Regina who sacrifices herself so that Emma's heart won't be filled with darkness, and then Regina will become the new Dark One, and Robin breaks the curse with a True Love's Kiss. (I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.)

Edited March 24, 2015 by Curio

[Souris]

If anybody becomes the new Dark One, I don't think it will be resolved in the finale with a TLK. Probably the person turning all sparkly imp would be the cliffhanger.

[YaddaYadda]

I really think there will be a final battle between Emma and Rumple.  Almost seems like they're setting that up too.

 

If anybody becomes the new Dark One, I don't think it will be resolved in the finale with a TLK. Probably the person turning all sparkly imp would be the cliffhanger.

 

Yeah, no because Summer and hiatus and I wouldn't survive it if Emma becomes the Dark One, not to mention that I really want them to skip like a year ahead or something.  Once is written like a soap where it's a day to day thing.  Only difference is that soaps are on every day.

[Rumsy4]

In one of Colin's interviews from last week, he mentioned that Hook would draw from his own experience to help Emma if she was tempted to go Dark. Hook realized how easy it was to fall back on revenge in his dealings with Ursula. So, if Emma is tempted to shove the Dagger into Rumple's chest, Hook might be the perfect person to talk her out of it. It's not like Emma will listen to her parents after she finds out about their hypocrisy.

[Mari]

The thing is, in Storybrooke, unless someone has the dagger and controlling you, there are no outward signs to notice if someone like Regina or Emma became the Dark One. Storybrooke Dark One doesn't have the sparkly full imp effect.

If they were being really sneaky, they could have Rumple's stabbed body, and leave it a mystery who the new one is. As long as it's a magic user, it could be a while before anyone notices, even when they use magic.

[OnceUponAJen]

The name on the dagger would change, but noone would see it if the new Dark One had it.

[Curio]

The thing is, in Storybrooke, unless someone has the dagger and controlling you, there are no outward signs to notice if someone like Regina or Emma became the Dark One. Storybrooke Dark One doesn't have the sparkly full imp effect.

 

You're assuming the show cares about continuity details like that...

 

No, but okay. Let this hypothetical Dark One battle occur in the Enchanted Forest then. Problem solved.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Curio

[Mari]

You're assuming the show cares about continuity details like that...

 

No, but okay. Let this hypothetical Dark One battle occur in the Enchanted Forest then. Problem solved.

Logic? Continuity? What is this madness I speak? :)

Moving the hypothetical battle to the Enchanted Forest would make a new Dark One obvious. But in Storybrooke, they could potentially hide the identity of a new Dark One for months, as long as the person who stabbed Rumple hid the renamed dagger before anyone saw it.

It could make for a really interesting, tense story as they start to watch each other for signs of daggeritis. (Of course, I have now cursed the storyline by pointing out it could be mysterious and tension filled, thereby making the possibility of it actually happening decrease by approximately 73%.)

[tatterd]

I think Hook as the dark one has more potential than Emma.  He'd kill Rumple and take the consequences if he thought it would save her and it almost fits better with the "love is the most powerful magic of all", as Emma would then be the one to save him.  Plus Rumple as Hook showed that Colin can do dark pretty well so it wouldn't have to be instantly resolved (it would probably take a while for anybody to notice for one thing)  and dark Hook would be way better than brooding Hook.  Maybe we'd even get some snark back.

[Rumsy4]

The more I think about it, the more I doubt Hook is going to stab Rumple and become the Dark One. His arc is the slow path to redemption. Besides, he is a foil for Rumple. As Rumple backslides more and more, Hook is choosing to fight against his old instincts of revenge and anger. Would I like the snarky Hook back? Yes. But I'm also getting tired of the Show pushing villains as the only people capable of snark. Once Hook gets over the self-loathing mood he's in these days, I'm hoping some of his snark will return as well. :-p

[KingOfHearts]

A little late, but...

 

I wonder if Zelena gave Henry and Emma fake memories about Walsh being Emma's boyfriend longer than he actually was. It really made no sense for him to keep her alive for eight months. If Zelena knew the curse was coming, she probably inquired to Rumple about it and found out about the Savior, then finding about Henry by extension. Then she sent Walsh with fake memory totems or potions. She had to keep Emma alive to insure the curse wasn't broken so she could keep her advantage. 

Edited March 25, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Zelena is just stupid overall.  Why not trap Emma and Henry in a basement somewhere in NYC, trap Snow in the jail cell until she gave birth, freeze everyone else in town, and take Regina's heart early before she was ID'd?  Oh yeah, it's because she's not evil, she's wicked.  

[Mari]

A little late, but...

 

I wonder if Zelena gave Henry and Emma fake memories about Walsh being Emma's boyfriend longer than he actually was. It really made no sense for him to keep her alive for eight months. If Zelena knew the curse was coming, she probably inquired to Rumple about it and found out about the Savior, then finding about Henry by extension. Then she sent Walsh with fake memory totems or potions. She had to keep Emma alive to insure the curse wasn't broken so she could keep her advantage. 

That's been my theory.  My theory was always that Walsh came over as the first waves of the curse allowed travel, and memory spelled Emma and Henry into thinking he was part of their life.  Until they made it to Emma's realm, they had no need to keep tabs on her--and planting a serious boyfriend into Emma's life made it at least a little possible that if someone from Storybrook made it to New York to find Emma, that Walsh could deal with them, and/or give Emma motivation to stay in New York.

 

Emma and Henry were already under a memory spell.  All the new spell would have to do is add  a tweak here and there.

[OnceUponAJen]

I like this theory because that means Emma didn't sleep with a flying monkey.

[Gold]

Zelena has to return because when she died, the green smoke activated the portal, but I think it did more than that... I think she went back in time, too. When she does appear in flashbacks, like they said would happen, she will be the Zelena from where we left off. 

[KingOfHearts]

Now that it's been confirmed that the Author has been messing with free will, I wonder what will happen when he gets caught or killed and can't write any more. In Into the Woods, they kill off the Narrator and the story takes unexpected turns now that the characters have to decide for themselves what to do next. So in Once, will the characters start acting differently as well?

[Souris]

If Rumple is having heart problems, I bet he wants a heart transplant. And I bet he wants to somehow use Emma's. I think his plan is, instead of wanting to "darken her heart," he wants to "Dark One her heart."

[Serena]

Now that it's been confirmed that the Author has been messing with free will, I wonder what will happen when he gets caught or killed and can't write any more. In Into the Woods, they kill off the Narrator and the story takes unexpected turns now that the characters have to decide for themselves what to do next. So in Once, will the characters start acting differently as well?

I don't think so. Like August said, the author is a job - when the current one is unavailable, they chose a different one. 

[RadioGirl27]

If Rumple is having heart problems, I bet he wants a heart transplant. And I bet he wants to somehow use Emma's. I think his plan is, instead of wanting to "darken her heart," he wants to "Dark One her heart."

Like father, like son.

If he takes Emma's heart, would he still hate Hook?

[Serena]

If he takes Emma's heart, would he still hate Hook?

I need an episode of Rumple having Emma's heart in his chest and the heart making him want to make kissy faces at Hook. Are you reading this, A&E? You can take this idea for free. You're welcome.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Serena

[YaddaYadda]

Why would he darken her heart to take her heart and shove it in his chest.  He would have the pure Savior's heart which might actually give him his happy ending.  Guys, seriously, don't put stuff like that out there.  Can we have a memory spell over here, please?  Stat!

[Souris]

Why would he darken her heart to take her heart and shove it in his chest.  He would have the pure Savior's heart which might actually give him his happy ending.  Guys, seriously, don't put stuff like that out there.  Can we have a memory spell over here, please?  Stat!

 

Maybe because if there weren't any darkness in her heart, it would reject his Dark One juju? Also, perhaps Hook will protect Emma by jumping in front of her when Rumple is doing the spell/curse/whatever, so it ends up being him. Which I would kind of laugh at Rumple over, if it wouldn't be so annoying a development. Jeez, another cursed Hook body part! (Rumple: "I don't want THIS heart! Feh!" ::throws it on the ground::) That would be one way for them all to have to co-exist -- they couldn't kill Rumple if he was walking around with someone else's heart. I mean, you know they're gonna do something to angst up CS and keep them from a happy ending until the end of the show.

 

I know, the concept is terrible, but I see putting it out there as reverse mojo, like maybe by voicing it then it won't happen. Plus I can't suffer alone with this stuff rattling around my head! Misery loves company. ;)

[Bluerang1]

How does August know so much about the authors? Also, if the Peddler is the current author then why did August mention Walt? Are there different authors for each realm? And guesses guys?

[YaddaYadda]

I think Walt at this point is just an obligatory name drop thing which I find annoying.  The authors are just a long list of authors who recorded the stories we know and I think they do transcend the realms.  I mean books are universal.  Doesn't matter what country we're from or what language we speak, they transcend all of that, so I imagine the same applies to the Enchanted Forest, the LwM and so on.  What I'd like to know is why some of the stories are so fucked up.  The Captain Hook from Once is different from "Walt's" version.  Did something get lost in translation?  Did a Lost Boy make it back to the LwM and decided to fuck with Hook by creating that cartoon version of him or the JM Barrie version?  

 

Hook: Oh JM Barrie?  I knew him, he was a prat.  

 

The Peddler is not the current Author.  He was trapped in the book a good 7-8 months I'd say before Regina cast the curse which means someone came to replace him to write the story we know.  Regina casting the curse, Emma being put in a wardrobe.  

 

The major problem I'm having and I mean MAJOR is we don't know how long Peddler was the Author, though I'm getting the impression that he was the Author just long enough to mess with the Apprentice before he was banished inside the book.

 

I guess the Author is appointed by the Apprentice and the Sorcerer?  Is that what I'm getting?  

[Rumsy4]

I think Rumple is going to die at the end of the season. With him clutching his heart while monologuing over unconscious Belle, and the shot of him in the promo in hospital next episode, it seems like pretty heavy foreshadowing. Rumple seemed to be saying a final goodbye to Belle, in case his nefarious plans to get the Author to do his bidding failed. Of all the ways I thought Rumple might die, heart failure was not one. This could also be why he hasn't killed off Will, or hacked off his hand yet. Rumple has much bigger things to worry about--like dying. If Rumpel dies of natural causes, I assume the Dark One Curse will end with him as well.

 

Some Rumbellers are theorizing that this parallels the Beauty and the Beast fairy tale, where the Beast is dying after Belle leaves, and is saved at the last minute when Belle comes back and proclaims her love for him. With these writers, they might well throw the onus back on Belle to save Rumple with her "love". On the other hand, Will's introduction as a love interest for Belle makes me think that Rumbelle is over for good. 

[RadioGirl27]

Some Rumbellers are theorizing that this parallels the Beauty and the Beast fairy tale, where the Beast is dying after Belle leaves, and is saved at the last minute when Belle comes back and proclaims her love for him. With these writers, they might well throw the onus back on Belle to save Rumple with her "love".

The mere thought of this makes me so disgusted. I never was a fan of Rumbelle, but this season has made me hate it. The only thing that makes me think that they are not going to save him this time is that I can't imagine Carlyle wanting to play reformed Rumple.

[YaddaYadda]

On the other hand, Will's introduction as a love interest for Belle makes me think that Rumbelle is over for good.

 

This is one couple I hope is done with for good.  I can't even watch them interact.

[KingOfHearts]

I don't think so. Like August said, the author is a job - when the current one is unavailable, they chose a different one.

Then wouldn't there be some change after the Peddler was trapped? Wouldn't things become less plot-twisty and morally corrupt? Besides Lily, what is the point of a rogue Author if his bidding was only carried out a long time ago?

Edited March 30, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Trini]

So, theories about Cruella's Tragic Backstory? Wicked parents killed her puppy? Got attacked by wolves, now all animals must pay? She needs their pelts to suck up their life essence?

[Rumsy4]

 

So, theories about Cruella's Tragic Backstory™?

 

Maybe Snow shot Cruella's parents when she was hunting for food as Bandit!Snow. She probably mistook them for animals, and didn't realize they were humans beings until after she had killed them. :-p

 

Another rabbit trail... Theoretically, the Apprentice being long-lived and all, he probably knew Rumple before he became the Dark One. If the Apprentice plays a big role in thwarting Rumple's nefarious schemes with the Author, Rumple might end up hating him worse than he hated Hook. What if Rumple uses the Apprentice's heart to free himself from the Dagger? 

[Camera One]

Maybe Snow shot Cruella's parents when she was hunting for food as Bandit!Snow. She probably mistook them for animals, and didn't realize they were humans beings until after she had killed them. 

 

Cruella's parents were cat humanoids, and Snow killed them along with her bloodhound friends to make that hideous fur thing she wears as Bandit Snow.  

[OnceUponAJen]

I see Cruella as a black widow, or a gangster. I'm interested to see what they do with her.

[Camera One]

Anyone think we will end the season with Emma or Snow standing on an apple box and proclaiming to the crowds that "None of us are all hero, none of us are all villain.  We are BOTH."?

[KingOfHearts]

 

Anyone think we will end the season with Emma or Snow standing on an apple box and proclaiming to the crowds that "None of us are all hero, none of us are all villain.  We are BOTH."?

Or, "Hey wait a minute! The Author made us do everything! It wasn't our faults at all - it was him! He's the real villain!" 

[Camera One]

I don't watch promos so I don't even know who this upcoming episode is about, but with a title like "Heart of Gold", I'm guessing it's a Rumple centric.

 

Please don't make us watch another flashback of the time period when Belle cleaned Rumple's house.  I think that well is dry by this point.

[Souris]

Come on, you know Rumple got glitter EVERYWHERE when he was Sparkly Dark. Belle had a LOT of work. ;)

[KingOfHearts]

 

Come on, you know Rumple got glitter EVERYWHERE when he was Sparkly Dark. Belle had a LOT of work. ;)

Well that and all the blood splatter to wash off his aprons.

[ParadoxLost]

It occurs to me that Heart of Gold just put all the pieces together for 4B.

 

Rumpel doesn't have any intention of trying to get Author to write anyone's happy ending.  This whole thing is about his failing heart.  Author made Sorcerer cast a spell that moves all the potential for evil into Mal's child and good into Emma.  So what if that is Gold's cure for his failing heart?  He plans to have Author get someone else to cast that spell again this time with Emma in the place of Mal's child and Rumpel in Emma's place.

Edited April 19, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[myril]

Could be. Would speak for season 5 being the last one though IMO. Everybody getting their happy endings, or get a chance at it, at the end of this season, some maybe because of Emma's sacrifice to take the big bad into herself, and then season 5 as the quest to get a happy ending for Emma too. It makes some sense that Emma's happy ending will be the last we come to, think read A&E said that even somewhere.

Edited April 19, 2015 by myril

[Camera One]

I know nothing about "Sympathy for the De Vil", so just to randomly guess... Cruella was treated poorly as a child, turning to animals for comfort, until her life was ruined by a dog. 

Edited April 19, 2015 by Camera One