One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[chessiegal]

My understanding was the letter Emily found was a copy of the original that Trix kept for the family archives.  I thought we were supposed to believe she did give the letter to Richard, and he chose to ignore her warning.  That was part of the reason Emily was so upset.  It wasn't just that Trix wanted Richard to humiliate Emily by leaving her at the altar, it was that Trix kept a copy of the letter for posterity to signify her deep and continued dislike of Emily.  Presumably she understood that the note would likely be found after she died, and there was a good chance that Emily might be the one to find it.            

That's how I remember it - the letter they found was a carbon copy.

[readster]

One part that always confused me and maybe I'm wrong was Richard seemed really upset that

Jason was going to be Floyd's successor. Why was he surprised by that? He worked at Floyd's

company for years, I doubt it was a secret to anyone that Floyd was grooming his own son

for the job. Richard lived in a world where that was the norm.

He was more upset that he was the person being forced out. I think if Richard would have been Jason's mentor in the company and Floyd wouldn't have been handing Jason, Richard's accounts and clients and making him stand in for Richard at monthly meetings, Richard would have taken it better. It was not only the norm that Jason was to take over for Floyd, but I'm sure everyone figured that was the point, but if it would have been one of them being put in that situation (which Richard admitted happened), I would be upset too. Along the lines of: "We know he is going to take over for you as the boss and that's why he is here, but why the hell do you need him taking over my position, when I'm not doing anything wrong?" In fact, when Floyd wanted Richard back it was pretty much admitted that Richard was exceptional at the company with only a handful of mistakes in the 30 plus years he was there. So, if anything, Richard felt betrayed and he had a right to feel that way. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by readster

[junienmomo]

Quotes from Shronita and similar statements from others...

Here's my thing...not knowing what was coming in season 2, I thought that was a clear, final rejection from lorelai. They were not going to be a family, in of discussion. I didn't think lorelai had any interest in being married to him. She told him he was nuts and said they didn't even know each other as adults. So I was pretty surprised to see Lorelai flirting with him in season 2. Keep in mind, I binged watched GG, so I saw those eps for the first time in the same week lol so lorelai gave me whiplash. I certainly thought she was still attracted to him but I never thought she would seriously consider taking him up on his offer, even if he showed up later with a volvo. I thought she just wanted him around for rory, not her and rory.

Funny how Lorelai moved closer to Emily's world relatively willingly when Christopher was there to be her playmate/partner. In Christopher Returns, she escapes with him to the balcony and has tequila sex. I'm no longer so sure Lorelai needed the tequila to get her to agree. I lean more towards it was a chance for her to be irresponsible that she took, regardless of the consequences.

In Presenting Lorelai Gilmore, Lorelai goes completely over the top. First with the Volvo and stereo. She's sitting in the car with Christopher and has a bigger smile on her face that I recall seeing at any time during the best of the L/L relationship. Now that's a clear actor or director choice, from which I infer that either LG or the director in S5 wanted them to be not as shiny-happy-smiley as she was with Christopher.

During the debutante event itself, she is clearly enjoying herself with the assistance of Christopher. So much so that she proposes he start up a relationship with her after they return to SH.

It makes me wonder what would have happened if Christopher had blown off Sherry and done exactly what Lorelai suggested. Or, in a similar vein, if Lorelai had a sibling, someone to be the playmate and help when the parents became too much.

Here's the picture of happy Lorelai in Christopher Returns.

https://junienmomo.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/img_2163.png

Edited March 18, 2016 by junienmomo

[readster]

 

It makes me wonder what would have happened if Christopher had blown off Sherry and done exactly what Lorelai suggested.  Or, in a similar vein, if Lorelai had a sibling, someone to be the playmate and help when the parents became too much.

I always thought about the sibling factor for either Lorelai and Christopher. AS-P did an interview after season 5 that she never even thought about why their parents only had one kid and tried to put it in that they were annoyed by things Chris and Lore were babies and just decided: "We're done with one." However, I always felt that really missed the point with Rory and Gerogia, even when Rory told a guy on a date during freshman year at Yale if she had any siblings and she paused and then went: "No." When it was a lie, but at that point, they didn't want to do anything since Sutcliffe was busy on ABC with: "I'm with Her." Yet, when they did put Chris in more and brought Georgia in more, there was like zero interaction with Rory at all. She was home, she knew what was going on with Christopher at the time and yes, Rory was in college, but how about Rory dealing with having a sibling that young at her age. I had a friend of mine who's father got remarried during her sophomore year in high school, and her mother had died when she was 4 so. It wasn't like her father remarrying was fresh off the boat and they had a baby the following year. My friend was almost 17 and she said how odd it was to have a sibling at that age, but she wanted to be a good big sister and still is to this day. I had same happen to me at 12 going from an only child to being the oldest of 5 since my parents remarried. While I wish I had been more involved with my younger siblings, I made an effort, but they understood I was in college and much older than them. Now, they are in their mid 20s and I really wish I had more of a relationship with them, because now we are grown up, live in different states and just can't have that time together.

 I would have love seen Rory playing tea part with Georgia or at least taking her to the park. Instead it was: "Lorelai gets to have another kid and be a mom again." Hello!? She had a sister, but that wasn't as important as AS-P having Christopher on a regular basis, since she was in love with the character so much. 

[junienmomo]

This UO revolves around beauty of the characters and to a certain extent the actors portraying them.

 

The only true beauties I saw among the major female cast were Rory and Sookie.

Yes, Sookie. She had perfect skin, amazing hair and wonderfully formed features. If she had been more classically shaped (I'm talking not carrying pregnancy weight all the time), she would have blown Lorelai away and made it difficult to understand how Lorelai could get hit on all the time and not Sookie. 

I don't believe Rory as one of the top beauties is an UO.

(Side note: if I go down to any level of character, then Anna/Sherilyn Fenn would blow even Rory out of the water. Payton/Jon Hamm would get a respectable place in this list as well.)

 

The only attractive man of the majors/secondaries was Luke.

He was the only guy with any sex appeal, and he had it in spades. 

While I'm attracted to tall dark and handsome, before GG I'd never been attracted to the V-shaped torso of e.g. baseball players. However, when Luke tucked that order book into his jeans, I was a goner.

I only discuss the WITS bed scene in hushed, reverent tones. LOL.

 

On the third level, I place Babette and Lorelai, and my gut puts Lorelai below Babette. Maybe Jess or Dean if I'm feeling kind.

There is just something about Lorelai's face that is weird. When she lifts her nose too high, I can't get the image of a rabbit out of my mind. Add to that other weirdly-shaped facial features and that's why she's down on my list.

 

Why these people?

As mentioned before, tall dark and handsome is my male type, so blonde Logan is out fast. Jess and Dean were just too young for me. I'm not the Tiger Beat generation. Dean was also way too scrawny in the first seasons.

I also cannot describe the uncomfortable feeling I get when I see Logan in bed with Rory and he has apparently shaved his chest. Blech.

 

Other notes:

• Richard and Emily were just not attractive. Emily had a couple of good hairstyles in S1, but the bulk of her appearances had an angry-ish look on her face and helmet hair
• Noses are a big thing for me. Christopher and Rachel have noses that make me cringe; although Rachel was in general quite beautiful, Christopher was never attractive to me, because of the nose first, but his general physical being second
• Scruff or longish hair doesn't bother me much. Luke's thick neck in S3 or S4 (was he bulking up for Saw at that time?) was unattractive
• In general I loved the 'everyman' look of most characters. I hate the current practice in too many shows of everyone being scrawny and 25
• The strongest UO, I imagine, is that Lorelai isn't at the top of my list

Edited March 18, 2016 by junienmomo

[LegalParrot81]

 

My understanding was the letter Emily found was a copy of the original that Trix kept for the family archives.

 

That was my understanding also.

 

IMO,  Emily was so completely unaware that she totally failed to recognize that she had, in many respects, become Trix.  They were both extremely judgmental, demanding, interfering without thought and they were both incredible snobs.

[txhorns79]

IMO,  Emily was so completely unaware that she totally failed to recognize that she had, in many respects, become Trix.  They were both extremely judgmental, demanding, interfering without thought and they were both incredible snobs.

 

What I thought was interesting is that Emily seemed to think her interference was needed or would somehow serve to help Lorelai (even if that was almost never the case).  Trix just seemed like she was being nasty to Emily for the sake of being nasty. 

[readster]

What I thought was interesting is that Emily seemed to think her interference was needed or would somehow serve to help Lorelai (even if that was almost never the case).  Trix just seemed like she was being nasty to Emily for the sake of being nasty. 

Right on both cases. Trix's nastiness was something that she needed to let go. Her and Richard at that point were married for almost 30 years. You have to let it go some day. Of course Emily couldn't see past her nose with her interference that at times was so cartoony that I'm surprise she didn't get hit with an acme anvil at times. 

[Melancholy]

This is Downtown Abbey, correct? I confess to not being familiar with the characters and their plots and machinations.  I found Maggie Smith way too hammy for my taste.

But back to GG. I never viewed Trix as particularly mean. Now I readily concede  Trix was extremely caustic to Emily and words can certainly hurt. But Trix wasn't any nastier to Emily than Emily was to any number of people, including members of her own family, her friends, and service providers at all levels. So I find it difficult to muster  up much sympathy for her or view her as ill-treated  given her own conduct. 

 

I thought Trix's  actions (or lack of them) spoke louder. Although Trix  didn't care for Emily, she didn't interfere in her relationship with Richard beyond expressing her opinion of his intended before their marriage.  Compare that to Emily's behaviour towards Lorelai and her romantic partners. Nor  was there evidence that Trix  meddled  with their child rearing practices. She didn't play much of a role in young Lorelai's life. Although in retrospect, perhaps she should have.  Richard and Emily, on the other hand,  made efforts to undermine Lorelai's parenting and authority even when Rory was a teenager.

 

Nor is there any information that she used her financial resources as a weapon  to ensure  her son and daughter-in-law  did things exactly as she wanted during the course of their marriage. For Richard and Emily money was often a cudgel in their relationship with their daughter.

 

Clearly Trix was a demanding and rude - if infrequent - houseguest. But  she wasn't an interfering mother or mother-in-law, undermining family life. Dreadful as her visits likely were, they were like migraines or severe storms. Once they were over, they were over. And life went on as before. With Richard and Emily,  a person could never be  sure  when or where the next  devious scheme or nasty dig was coming from.

 

In the unlikely event that  I suddenly acquire unpleasant but quite well-to-do parents or in-laws, I know I would prefer the Trix type.

 

I am referring to Downton Abbey. Actually, Trix's combination of endless venom thrust at Emily but no participation or interest in participating deeply in the Gilmore family lives didn't make Trix come off better to me. It made her come off worse. At least with regard to her family, Emily endlessly criticizes because she's invested in them doing well and she'll back up her criticisms with her time spent attending family events, researching Rory's academics or making events that the girls would enjoy like Rory's favorite meals or the expensive movie night in the deleted scenes, money whenever someone asks for it, reliable desire to help in a crisis, etc. Trix, on the other hand, didn't play a big role in her family's lives once Richard grew up but every time that she deigned to visit, she felt entitled to excoriate Emily, not to build her character or to ensure that Richard or Lorelai get treated as Trix would want for her blood relations beyond the length of Trix's visit or for any halfway positive purpose but just because Trix gets off on being a bitch. 

 

Trix doesn't get any points from me as a mother-in-law because she was too busy and remote to bitch out Emily on the regular. That's not a magnanimous act to be generally remote from your family. It's either another justifiable criticism of Trix or it just *is*. By the way, I agree Emily's treatment of her maids and people she hired was "mean". Absolutely. Verbal venom just to tear people down is mean, whether it's Emily to her maids or Trix to Emily. I don't recall Emily being notably mean to her friends- she takes gossipy interest in their misfortunes along with the rest of her...crew. That's not personally malicious. Other than that, she's pretty cordial with her friends as rule, absent just provocation like with Shira yelling at Rory that she's not good enough for Logan. As a rule, I think Emily was very kind to Richard and Rory absent a few flare-ups where she had just cause to be upset. However, really, I don't see how I can rate Emily as anything other than wonderful wife and grandmother. With Lorelai, it's more complicated but at least, Lorelai and Emily communicate to a degree and Emily's modified her behavior before when Lorelai complained and there's love there. That's not the case with Trix. 

 

Another UO: I also didn't think much of Trix offering Rory's trust fund prematurely with big promises about it funding her schooling, without any mention of correspondingly increasing the trust fund. Rory already had an advantageous thing going where her grandparents and then, mother paid for high school- which is the case for most children who attend private school. And there was an understanding that Lorelai would at least help put Rory through college and IMO by then, it was clear that E/R would be interested in paying for an Ivy League college. Then, apparently, Rory had a nest egg for her adulthood in the form of Trix's trust fund that she didn't know about- much like Richard's investments made for baby!Lorelai which Lorelai got as a windfall as an adult.

 

Basically on the surface, Trix was proposing that Rory drain her trust fund starting in high school which was SUPPOSED to be Rory's nest egg for her adulthood, even though Rory had adults around her who wanted to pay for certainly her high school and probably her college, just because Trix wanted to get on her high horse about money lending and quote anti-Semetic Shakespearean passages as support. Fuck that. I think the trust fund was $250,000? It's a lot of money- but eight years of private education will drain it.

 

And Lorelai was unbelievably silly to jump at the trust fund basically because it's no-strings money to get them out of Friday night dinners without paying much mind to the fact that Rory apparently has a store of money, but changing the terms, just forces Rory to start depleting it in the ages when adults are supposed to provide for her. Emily sounded paranoid. I don't think Trix wanted to end Friday Night Dinners or something. However, Trix was blithely using her money to get on a ridiculous high horse about lending money, without much regard to the people who had to live with those consequences of basically giving a 16 year old girl total financial independence. It bothers me way more than E/R just asking for a meal every week to eat as a family in exchange for being called on to pay for high school as a family. E/R were comparatively benign. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Melancholy

[readster]

 

Lorelai was unbelievably silly to jump at the trust fund basically because it's no-strings money to get them out of Friday night dinners without paying much mind to the fact that Rory apparently has a store of money, but changing the terms, just forces Rory to start depleting it in the ages when adults are supposed to provide for her.

Yes, especially after Lorelai used her windfall money from Richard's 30 year investment to pay Emily back as soon as she could. Lorelai had built this entire: "My parents suck and I want nothing more of their controlling like when I was a kid." Yet, that was Lorelai, she jumped into things right away. Despite Emily and Richard's misgivings, seriously, the FND were not as bad as she believed them to be. She could have taken that money, used it for the Dragonfly purchase because it wasn't like her and Sookie hadn't been talking about it forever at that point. Yet it was; "Yay! No more dinners with my parents, I'm free again!" Then she got the wake up call a year later when she borrowed money for Luke. I'm more smart about my money if I get extra from a tax return or something. I try to pay off things that are more of a concern and then do one lump payment of something to get the debt off of me. Yet, I get told constantly to just pay something off and be done with it. I learned the hard way that when you do that, all of a sudden you realize you are short $70 and need to pay the electric bill and have to wait a week and a half for your paycheck to pay for it. Yet, the electric company doesn't care and shuts the power off when its 20 degrees outside. Hence, I pay the main bills first and then do a big payoff. Lorelai was like: "Money, pay, life is great... wait what do you mean I need more money for something? WTF?" Seriously, it was like Lorelai didn't know what a budget was from living in a potting shed for the first few years. 

[txhorns79]

Seriously, it was like Lorelai didn't know what a budget was from living in a potting shed for the first few years.

 

It did seem like Lorelai was essentially one disaster away from abject poverty.  I realize that's a common thing for a lot of people, but you would think just given Lorelai's particular circumstances, she would have a much better sense of her finances.       

[readster]

It did seem like Lorelai was essentially one disaster away from abject poverty.  I realize that's a common thing for a lot of people, but you would think just given Lorelai's particular circumstances, she would have a much better sense of her finances.       

Yep, I know it. Sometimes I feel like it to and many times its is because of other factors, but I do say: "This keeps happening when I do this, maybe I shouldn't do it anymore." Yet with both Lorelai and Emily they never got it and Lorelai more. The only TV character that has made that many financial mistakes and never seem to learn was Alan on TAHM.

[Melancholy]

Yes, especially after Lorelai used her windfall money from Richard's 30 year investment to pay Emily back as soon as she could. Lorelai had built this entire: "My parents suck and I want nothing more of their controlling like when I was a kid." Yet, that was Lorelai, she jumped into things right away. Despite Emily and Richard's misgivings, seriously, the FND were not as bad as she believed them to be. She could have taken that money, used it for the Dragonfly purchase because it wasn't like her and Sookie hadn't been talking about it forever at that point. Yet it was; "Yay! No more dinners with my parents, I'm free again!" Then she got the wake up call a year later when she borrowed money for Luke. 

 

LOL, particularly since Lorelai basically attended FNDs from that point on anyway to "keep Rory company" or as I've said before, because Lorelai likes both FNDs and complaining about FNDs as a package deal. How would her life be any different other than more financially secure with more resources if she used Richard's windfall for the Dragonfly and stuck to her previous plan of just continuing the FNDs and slowly saving money to pay back E/R per their agreement? It's almost as silly as when Lorelai was still emotionally and socially indebted to Emily as a co-signer of the loan for the termites money- but the way that Lorelai played it was to be indebted to a bank AND Emily AND have to pay according to the bank's terms including interest and inevitably punitive actions if she's late on a payment or defaults (which all of the banks were expecting would likely happen given Lorelai's salary and assets). Instead of just receiving a gift from Emily or if Lorelai had too much honor for that (which I can respect), than another interest-free verbal contract loan with her parents where she'd pay them back but at favorable conditions. 

 

It's all very silly. I think the Rory-Trix thing bothers me more because Lorelai was being careless with her child's future while being on her own highhorse about their perfect relationship. I think there's irony baked into the ep. Lorelai could also be paranoid that she needs financial control to keep being the loved, need, valued parent. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Melancholy

[junienmomo]

It did seem like Lorelai was essentially one disaster away from abject poverty. 

When there's not enough money to cover the necessities, you don't learn to budget. You do learn to prioritIze which bill gets paid first. One common pitfall when a person exits poverty is not knowing how to budget, so all the money gets spent every month anyway. I think that happened to Lorelai often.

For my part, I would have taken the money and sucked up to Gran to make sure it happened. That way I as the mom had near-direct influence over $250k plus my own $75k, which was hopefully enough to put Rory through the first years of Yale and start the inn. Given that Lorelai, although she wouldn't admit it, was drawn to FND, I wouldn't have rushed to pay that back.

[Melancholy]

I think Lorelai had some of the worst instincts of wealth and poverty melding together to inform her financial attitudes. She was born and raised in wealth, which endowed her with a sunny optimism about money while still pride being the most important thing, "it'll all work out" yaddah yaddah. However, she didn't continue her adult years as a normal privileged young woman who acquires the great credit rating, the 401K, the savings that are all apart living up to her birthright and absorbing the lessons from her parents on how to build wealth with impulse control. Instead, Lorelai willfully signed up for poverty which Mia and Stars Hallow helped make picturesque. Along with that, Lorelai absorbed some of the problems of America's poor- poor diets, eating out every meal, not saving- but also held onto her entitlement as someone raised rich that everything would just work out. Rory was somewhat along for Lorelai's ride of fun and living paycheck to paycheck, but even as a child, she could be more levelheaded about worrying what things cost or thinking that it's worthwhile to swallow pride and ask the grandparent's for health. Rory learned to cook as a young adult and considered taking a lucrative job out of Yale if she or Loreai would going to be in debt to a bank over it. I think this was partly because even as a child, Rory could be more mature because she wasn't raised with such a sense of financial entitlement. As Rory got more into the wealthy lifestyle, she was less level-headed. 

 

No, if I were Lorelai, I'd let Rory's money stay in the trust fund until she turned 25. The money was being invested in the middle of the bull market '90s by Trix's experts. It can make money by staying invested. Moreover, it's Rory's money. Morally, it shouldn't be a part of making Lorelai's dreams to miss FND or open her own inn come true. I'd take Emily's proposed gift for the termites as another loan in S2, DAR meetings at the inn or not. I'd take the proceeds from her 75K in S3 to start the Dragonfly. Since Lorelai didn't really have discretionary money, I wouldn't pay the Chilton loan, just yet. BTW, paying the Chilton loan AFTER the fire at the Independence Inn was just even MORE irresponsible on top of an irresponsible choice. Lorelai didn't even know how long she'd have a job. It'd be silly enough if she paid it, still counting on her manager salary at the Independence Inn. It's especially stupid to pay after the fire. 

 

There is the pickle of how Rory pays for Yale when Lorelai has 75K laying around making her ineligible for scholarships and they still committed their Friday nights away for Chilton. However, I still think they or just Rory should have asked the grandparents for another loan for Yale. I can't imagine that E/R wouldn't pay it and you know, I really don't think they'd ask for another weekly encounter top of FND. Some might disagree- but at least with Rory, I think E/R were pretty satisfied with their access to her in S3-4 and didn't want her to sign over more of her Yale social calendar. So, especially if Rory asked for the Loan, it'd be the same deal. 

 

If Lorelai kept her 75K, she wouldn't be 30K underwater with the inn project. She'd be well-heeled and comfortable to start the project. When the inn started turning over profits, assuming the termite loan was paid, Lorelai would be in a responsible place to pay back the loan. BTW, my impression is that the Dragonfly really was taking in great profits starting in later S5 at least. Maybe Lorelai would have responsibly thrown a check in Emily's face in the "You and me? We're DONE" moment. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Melancholy

[chessiegal]

AS-P mucked around with money/budget solely for the sake of drama. One time Emily has enough money to buy a timeshare in a private jet, yet in another episode the budget doesn't allow them to fly first class to Europe that year. Plus, as Trixie's only son, he should have inherited a small fortune after she died and not needed his pension to support his new business. Heck, they couldn't even keep timelines consistent in a single episode - Lorelei plans to go fishing with Alex on 1 day of the week and then she goes on another. Richard saying going to a speech Rory was doing on a Friday night was problematic when Friday night dinners was a regular thing. And that's just scratching the surface. So I totally ignore anything that has to do with money. AS-P did whatever she damned well pleased to tell the story du jour.

[dustylil]

In addition to the ones you raised chessiegal, my own favourite tale of the varying fortunes of the Gilmore clan,  was the family in the seventh season  having the resources to build  a planetarium  - so the world would have a place to gaze upon Rory, I guess - on the Yale campus.

 

Further related to money - now I know it was  done plot-wise  so the last minute money-borrowing and the FNDs could continue. However,  I would have enjoyed hearing an even moderately plausible explanation for the following -

1) after Rory had been accepted to Yale and the family dream was going to come true, why did Richard and Emily give no thought to helping her pay for college? They had a reasonable sense of Lorelai's finances, Did they think the Haydens were going to spring for it?

2) why not donate the Chilton loan money that Lorelai repaid  to Rory for her college fund?

 

[timimouse]

It did seem like Lorelai was essentially one disaster away from abject poverty.  I realize that's a common thing for a lot of people, but you would think just given Lorelai's particular circumstances, she would have a much better sense of her finances.       

Agreed. I think given her situation, having come from money and then living in a potting shed, she would be better with handling money. Also makes me wonder how she ran the finances at the inn(s)? Sookie always said she did the cooking and Lorelai did everything else and they made her seem so efficient with that, I'm at a loss as to why we were given the impression that she was bad at handling her own personal finances.

 

You guys are making miss this show SO much! I don't live in the US and used to use a VPN to get US Netflix content... which of course Netflix has began blocking as at the beginning of this year. I had gotten so used to having GG playing in the background that now I'm so lost without it! LOL

So here I am jumping on this forum every so often to get my Gilmore fix...

[snarktini]

Trix DID sent the letter to Richard, and what Emily found was the carbon copy:

 

EMILY: This is to your father. It's a carbon copy of a letter she sent to your father.

LORELAI: Hmm. That's nice.

EMILY: [reading] "My Dearest Richard, It is with heavy heart that I write you this letter tonight, but I cannot stand by and let you make a terrible mistake. Until now, I had thought, hoped, prayed that you would come to the same conclusion that I have. But you have not, and therefore, I feel it is my duty as your mother to beg you to reconsider your impending marriage." [Lorelai gasps.] "I'm sure that Emily is a very suitable woman for someone, but not for you. She will not be able to make you happy. She does not have the Gilmore stamina or spark. She is simply not a Gilmore."

LORELAI: Well, sure, 'cause you weren't directly related to him.

EMILY: [continues reading] "I don't know the circumstances surrounding your breakup with Pennilyn Lott, but it is still my belief that she is much better suited for you than Emily." [Voice breaking] "I know that the timing of this is particularly awkward, since you are to be married tomorrow."

LORELAI: No way!

EMILY: [reading] "But your happiness is too important to me, so timing be damned."

LORELAI: She wanted Dad to leave you at the altar.

EMILY: She begged him to leave me at the altar! She begged him in writing, and then she saved the carbons!

LORELAI: Holy moly. Can I see that?

EMILY: I can't believe this. I'm standing here in her basement, covered in dust. I'm organizing her estate and cataloging her things. I've been on the phone for days, trying to make sure that everything was exactly the way she wanted it, and all this time, she never even wanted me in her family!

LORELAI: Man, she sure used a lot of exclamation points.

Edited March 18, 2016 by snarktini

[dustylil]

Trix had no way of knowing that Emily would see the carbon copy of that letter. She  couldn't know that Richard would emotionally collapse upon her passing and she would assume he would be the one going through her papers. Or  a staff member of the legal firm that dealt with her legal, business and personal affairs. The second Lorelai might also have been called upon to do review the contents of those files. It seemed serendipitous to me that it was Emily.

Trix seemed to have been an efficient if occasionally nasty woman. If she had really wanted Emily to read the letter, she would have arranged to have a copy sent to her daughter-in-law after her death.

I'm at a loss as to why we were given the impression that she was bad at handling her own personal finances

 

Personally, I never had that impression. When we met her Lorelai was in her early thirties, raising a child on her own, and owned her modestly furnished house and a car. We heard of no wild extravagances, Las Vegas or AC holidays, or other wasteful spending, Lorelai seemed to live quite simply in Stars Hollow, even going so far as to making her own - and Rory's - clothes. Her main indulgence was eating at Luke's Diner on a regular basis- meals it was made clear that she did pay for.

She had worked for the same business for about fifteen years and had risen to the post of executive manager. She was well regarded in her community, something that seems highly unlikely In a small town if she was financially shiftless.

Edited March 19, 2016 by dustylil

[txhorns79]

 

Trix seemed to have been an efficient if occasionally nasty woman. If she had really wanted Emily to read the letter, she would have arranged to have a copy sent to her daughter-in-law after her death.

 

I'm not sure the fact that Trix could have been even more abusive towards Emily than she was is a good defense for her behavior.     

 

 

She was well regarded in her community, something that seems highly unlikely In a small town if she was financially shiftless.

 

I think the bank manager said it best when he told Lorelai that he was sure she was well liked, but that didn't matter in the slightest in terms of her being denied for a loan.  My understanding from what he was saying was that Lorelai's assets were few, her debts were significant and her income was such that she was a bad risk for a loan.  I didn't get the impression Lorelai was in that situation because she was living a "modest" lifestyle, so much as it seemed like she was very overextended. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by txhorns79

[snarktini]

Trix had no way of knowing that Emily would see the carbon copy of that letter. 

 

 

 

Oh, I didn't think Trix expected or meant for Emily to find it. I responding to the earlier assertions that Trix kept her opinions to herself and didn't send the letter to Richard. I apparently missed the last page of posts, or I'd have seen this was already covered! Didn't mean to duplicate.

[Melancholy]

Further related to money - now I know it was  done plot-wise  so the last minute money-borrowing and the FNDs could continue. However,  I would have enjoyed hearing an even moderately plausible explanation for the following -

1) after Rory had been accepted to Yale and the family dream was going to come true, why did Richard and Emily give no thought to helping her pay for college? They had a reasonable sense of Lorelai's finances, Did they think the Haydens were going to spring for it?

2) why not donate the Chilton loan money that Lorelai repaid  to Rory for her college fund?

 

1) How would Richard/Emily know that Lorelai needed college money? Many parents do save up a college fund for their kid, even if they can't swing private high school and need to ask wealthier relations for that help. College money is saved by parents from birth as a necessity today; a high school like Chilton is a luxury. How do they know there wasn't a college fund? Or maybe they assumed Rory was eligible for scholarships, as Lorelai did. However, E/R had no reason to know that money was needed or certainly wanted from them until they were asked. Especially what with Lorelai plunking down the check for Chilton with the implication that she was done with them. 

 

2) Money is fungible. Maybe they used the Chilton proceeds when they paid for Yale, maybe it was just Richard's savings. However, I don't see the significance of the money Lorelai paid back going to Yale.

[shron17]

1) How would Richard/Emily know that Lorelai needed college money? Many parents do save up a college fund for their kid, even if they can't swing private high school and need to ask wealthier relations for that help. College money is saved by parents from birth as a necessity today; a high school like Chilton is a luxury. How do they know there wasn't a college fund? Or maybe they assumed Rory was eligible for scholarships, as Lorelai did. However, E/R had no reason to know that money was needed or certainly wanted from them until they were asked. Especially what with Lorelai plunking down the check for Chilton with the implication that she was done with them.

 

Some parents do have a college fund, but single parents on their own financially not so much.  I am surprised Emily and Richard wouldn't have thought to ask Rory if she needed help paying for college, and offer to either to pay or loan her the money.  They knew Lorelai would delight in throwing their money back in their faces, but this was a decision Rory could (and did) make for herself.  On the other hand, Rory was completely wrong to tell Emily about the termites--that was Lorelai's decision to make and not hers. 

 

Also, I don't have a problem with Lorelai paying back the Chilton money when she got the $75,000 from Richard.  She didn't want to be in debt to her parents and paid it back as soon as she could.  Sure, it was naive to not realize Rory wouldn't be able to get financial aid and that it would be needed for the Dragonfly.  But Lorelai had raised a child and bought a house all by herself and it's not out of character at all for her to think she and Sookie could also open the Dragonfly Inn without her parents money.  It was Emily who overreacted, in my opinion.  I guess she thought it was too much trouble to actually to have to try to get along with her adult daughter so she would want to come and visit instead of forcing her to come because of the loan. I mean, really, what kind of a relationship is that if she only comes to dinner because she has to? 

I think the bank manager said it best when he told Lorelai that he was sure she was well liked, but that didn't matter in the slightest in terms of her being denied for a loan.  My understanding from what he was saying was that Lorelai's assets were few, her debts were significant and her income was such that she was a bad risk for a loan.

But being a bad risk for a loan and being financially irresponsible are two different things.  At that time Lorelai had a steady paycheck and apparently paid her bills on time.  No, she didn't have the money put away in a savings account or the equity in her house to prove to the bank she could pay it off but that doesn't mean she couldn't have paid back the loan.  If not, they probably wouldn't have given her the money even with Emily co-signing.

[txhorns79]

At that time Lorelai had a steady paycheck and apparently paid her bills on time.  No, she didn't have the money put away in a savings account or the equity in her house to prove to the bank she could pay it off but that doesn't mean she couldn't have paid back the loan.  If not, they probably wouldn't have given her the money even with Emily co-signing.

 

I think Lorelai also had prior loans she had taken out which she was paying back.   And honestly, from what we saw, the banker was right about Lorelai.  She lost her steady paycheck by the end of Season 3, and if she hadn't gotten Luke to bail her out in Season 4, she likely would have gone bankrupt leading her to default on the loan (if it was still pending). 

 

In terms of the co-signer, a co-signer is responsible for the entire loan if the primary person fails to pay.  At that point, the bank will issue the loan because someone who does have the assets and/or credit has stepped forward to assume responsibility, and they will be on the hook should Lorelai fail to pay, rather than the bank. 

[shron17]

And honestly, from what we saw, the banker was right about Lorelai.

Banks make decisions based on whether that person has enough assets to cover the loan in worst-case scenarios.  Neither the banker or Lorelai knew she would lose the job she'd held for 15 years because of fire, or that she'd be given $75,000 shortly afterwards.

 

In terms of the co-signer, a co-signer is responsible for the entire loan if the primary person fails to pay

I understand how a co-signer works.  And I don't know for sure but seriously doubt a bank would grant a loan to anyone without the required income and a decent credit rating, even with a co-signer.  The loan was still in Lorelai's name with Emily co-signing as extra insurance for the bank.

Edited March 19, 2016 by shron17

[txhorns79]

I understand how a co-signer works.  And I don't know for sure but seriously doubt a bank would grant a loan to anyone without the required income and a decent credit rating, even with a co-signer. 

 

They are granting the loan to someone with the required income and decent credit rating.  That person would be Emily.  That's how having a co-signer works.   

 

 

Banks make decisions based on whether that person has enough assets to cover the loan in worst-case scenarios.

 

Yes, and they were right about Lorelai.  In a worst case scenario, she didn't have the assets to cover the loan. 

[Melancholy]

Some parents do have a college fund, but single parents on their own financially not so much.  I am surprised Emily and Richard wouldn't have thought to ask Rory if she needed help paying for college, and offer to either to pay or loan her the money.  They knew Lorelai would delight in throwing their money back in their faces, but this was a decision Rory could (and did) make for herself.  On the other hand, Rory was completely wrong to tell Emily about the termites--that was Lorelai's decision to make and not hers.

 

No, single parents also save for college. If Harvard was the big dream since Rory was a baby that they were both working towards, you'd think Lorelai would have saved something, would have worked on a plan for scholarships, would have discussed with an educational lending facility how Lorelai and Rory would take out loans and share responsibility for paying it back. Lorelai spent a lot more time patting herself on the back for how she was planning for Harvard more than giving any thought on how she'd help pay for it or how she'd help Rory be competitive for it or basic universal facts like an Ivy League bound student needs to apply to more than one school or any of the practical realities of sending a kid to college. 

 

But the basic thing is that Richard/Emily can't even install DSL or get Rory's Chilton uniforms without Lorelai flipping out. They had to ask Lorelai's permission to get Rory a car, a standard tangible graduation gift. Many parents, especially parents who yak about how they're going to be responsible for sending their kid to college, take it as their accomplishment to put their kid through college without any help. To quote The West Wing:

 

MATT: I spend half the day thinking about what happens if I slip and fall down on my own front porch, you know? It should be hard. I like that it's hard. Putting your daughter through college, that's-that's a man's job. A man's accomplishment. But it should be a little easier. Just a little easier. 'Cause in that difference is... everything. 

 

Take the gendered "man" stuff out- and that reflects a lot of parents who view putting their kid through college as their final push and accomplishment on exceptional child-rearing. To E/R, it would seem like Lorelai embodied that.

 

So yeah, I see zero wrong or surprising that E/R didn't volunteer the money for Yale. Generally, I think people who need help need to ask for it instead of pouting that their needs and financial situation wasn't anticipated by wealthier relations. If E/R were asked, that's one thing and E/R were happy to just pay for it outright without a loan once Rory asked or failing that, come up with the most favorable loan conditions. Rory proposed FNDs as part of the loan. However, yes, they needed to be asked to know that this is something they should pay for. 

 

 

Also, I don't have a problem with Lorelai paying back the Chilton money when she got the $75,000 from Richard.  She didn't want to be in debt to her parents and paid it back as soon as she could.  Sure, it was naive to not realize Rory wouldn't be able to get financial aid and that it would be needed for the Dragonfly.  But Lorelai had raised a child and bought a house all by herself and it's not out of character at all for her to think she and Sookie could also open the Dragonfly Inn without her parents money.  It was Emily who overreacted, in my opinion.  I guess she thought it was too much trouble to actually to have to try to get along with her adult daughter so she would want to come and visit instead of forcing her to come because of the loan. I mean, really, what kind of a relationship is that if she only comes to dinner because she has to?

 

I still think it was incredibly irresponsible and stupid for Lorelai to pay her parents right away. The Independence Inn just burned down. Lorelai apparently didn't save for college for Rory. This isn't just naive. This is Lorelai with zero clue on what's in her bank account matched up against the big expenses that she has down the road. Richard and Emily would wait indefinitely on the Chilton loan- and there no late fees or interest associated with that loan. Meanwhile, Lorelai and Sookie setting up a new job after the Independence Inn was remarkably time sensitive and given that they wanted to be business owners, it was time sensitive to have seed money to embark on their plans to open their own inn. Getting money for Yale was time-sensitive and applying for loans from a bank and educational lending house does come with interest. I mean, these are the considerations that most people would make because they're aware that even though they may not like being indebted to their parents, the world doesn't run on their feelings. 

 

And I agreed with Emily emotionally. 

 

Of course, Emily would like to have a loving relationship with Lorelai that doesn't need to be guaranteed with money. Of all people, it really hurts Emily that Lorelai hates her so much. However, that's not really a possibility or at least a foreseeable one. They're very different people. They have diametrically different ideas on how to be in a family, and both of them don't compromise. But even more, as I said earlier, Lorelai, in particular, is locked into viewing Emily as a heinous repulsive tyrant because that's crucial to Lorelai's self-image of herself as a pretty perfect mom and self-made woman. Lorelai can't give a parenting pep talk to Sookie, reproach Rory, given an interview on the Dragonfly without bitching about Emily. So, yes, Emily had every reason to view Lorelai paying back the loan as a way of saying goodbye other than a few visits. Moreover, that's exactly what Lorelai said. 

 

LORELAI: Mom, please. Just because I gave you this money doesn’t mean we’re never gonna come over here again. We will come over. Maybe not every week, but there will be the...occasional Friday night dinners.

 

That's not Lorelai saying, "I'm just paying you back, but of course, we can work having a good relationship not based on a loan as long as we both work on it." This is Lorelai saying, "Maybe we'll see you occasionally now that I've paid on the loan, but don't hold your breath until the next phone call or visit because now that you don't have a loan over us, we have zero responsibility to see you." Lorelai ultimately retracted that and went to FNDs, but I think Lorelai was all up in herself with pride that she could cut off E/R and have a happier life but then, come the next Friday night, she realized that she traded entertainment, palace intrigue, lots of booze, fancy food, and actually the Gilmore twisted familial connection and weird love to sit on the couch eating the same leftovers from the same like, several places in Stars Hallow (Chinese, pizza, Luke's, Al's Pancake World) that they eat day in and day out staring at a Rory who'd be leaving soon. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Melancholy

[shron17]

They are granting the loan to someone with the required income and decent credit rating.  That person would be Emily.  That's how having a co-signer works.

No, the loan is being granted to Lorelai.  If it were being given to Emily there would be no need for a co-signer.

 

But the basic thing is that Richard/Emily can't even install DSL or get Rory's Chilton uniforms without Lorelai flipping out. They had to ask Lorelai's permission to get Rory a car, a standard tangible graduation gift.

I thought it was nice that they asked Lorelai's permission to get the car, but not sure where you're getting that they had to ask.  But all of these things are about their relationship with Lorelai and money, not Rory.  I don't see why any of this shows they couldn't ask Rory herself, who they were seeing regularly without Lorelai, if she needed money for college and, if so, be sure to let them know.

 

I still think it was incredibly irresponsible and stupid for Lorelai to pay her parents right away.

We're talking about two different things.  I can agree that it was a little irresponsible, but not to the degree you think.  I also think it was smart, not stupid, for Lorelai to pay the debt and get out from under Emily's thumb as soon as possible.  Then they could be on equal footing and both choose to build a relationship based on mutual understanding and love and respect and rather than on need and control.  I'm also of the opinion that Lorelai's "we're done" moment was necessary to pave the way for more understanding between the two by showing Emily that Lorelai could and would cut her completely out if she didn't back off from meddling in her life.  If Lorelai hadn't already paid off her debt it could not have happened.

 

Of course, Emily would like to have a loving relationship with Lorelai that doesn't need to be guaranteed with money. Of all people, it really hurts Emily that Lorelai hates her so much. However, that's not really a possibility or at least a foreseeable one. They're very different people.

This may well have been the way Emily saw the situation.  Often people don't see the things they're doing to hurt the ones they love (although Lorelai did tell her more than once).  However, I don't think this means Lorelai should have accepted whatever her mother offered her and let her continue to insult her at Friday night dinners and try to control her life.  Life's too short to continually be around people who make you feel bad about yourself and try to control you with their money. 

 

That's not Lorelai saying, "I'm just paying you back, but of course, we can work having a good relationship not based on a loan as long as we both work on it." This is Lorelai saying, "Maybe we'll see you occasionally now that I've paid on the loan, but don't hold your breath until the next phone call or visit because now that you don't have a loan over us, we have zero responsibility to see you."

So what?  Lorelai had the right to say either one she wanted.  Was Emily upset because she was afraid she wouldn't see Lorelai anymore, or because she no longer had the power to demand that she visit?  Emily always seemed to forget that she could call and visit herself, and that by actually changing her behavior just a little the calls and visits might even be enjoyable for both of them.  Sorry, I just have no sympathy for any parent who tries to control their adult children and then complains that they don't have a good relationship.

Edited March 19, 2016 by shron17

[andromeda331]

Even though I know they did it to keep the FNDs money never made any sense to me. Lorelai didn't have

enough money for Chilton. Okay, it kind of makes sense since Rory got in after the school session starts.

But how long was she applying to Chilton? Was she expecting to get a scholarship and that's why she

was surprised by how much it cost and how soon they'd want their money? Was she at all saving up for

Chilton? After Rory got in and her parents' agreed to the loan, was she saving up for Harvard? Then

by season two Lorelai decides its time to move forward with the Inn. Did that mean she had been

saving up for that instead? Or started saving for the inn after her parents decided to loan her the

money for Chilton?  How much did she have saved up when she decided to open then inn?  Why

couldn't she use that money to pay for the termite problem?  How could she take the money

Richard gave her and turn it around to pay back her parents. But then suddenly not have enough

money to pay for Harvard and the Inn? Was she saving up for both Harvard and Inn? One or neither?

 

Same over with Richard and Emily, sometimes they had a lot of money. They didn't bat an eye at

paying for Chilton. But budgeted when to go to Europe. Other times, they can timeshare a jet.

Then Richard suddenly only had a pension. He also mentioned after he quit during the Bracebridge dinner

a little about their money. But shouldn't they have a massive forture? Or did they blow it all?

What happened to Trix's money? She had money and at least a house. What happened to her house?

Did they keep it or sale it? And then suddenly have enough money for Rory's building at Yale. And

to by an apartment in NYC towards the end of season seven. But not enough to buy a place at

Martha's Vinyard?   

Edited March 19, 2016 by andromeda331

[AllyB]

I never got the impression they couldn't afford to go to Europe first class whenever they wanted, just that it wasn't in their self-imposed budget. I could afford lots of things but don't buy them because they are outside the budget I allocate myself. It's about long-term planning and security.

[Melancholy]

I thought it was nice that they asked Lorelai's permission to get the car, but not sure where you're getting that they had to ask.  But all of these things are about their relationship with Lorelai and money, not Rory.  I don't see why any of this shows they couldn't ask Rory herself, who they were seeing regularly without Lorelai, if she needed money for college and, if so, be sure to let them know.

 

Well, E/R did apparently feel like they had to ask Lorelai's permission to get the car because it's an extravagant gift that a parent usually provides and they didn't want to buy the car, only for Lorelai to refuse to let Rory drive it. Rory's college education IS tied into their relationship with Lorelai. Generally parents help put their kids through college, or failing that, parents get involved in the money-raising efforts. Especially a parent who repeatedly said that Rory's Harvard dreams only include Rory and Lorelai, and not the grandparents to the point that E/R had to fake disinterest in Rory attending Yale because they were so nervous about Lorelai flipping out at them showing an incorrect emotion that she didn't pre-approve. However, there was no universal understanding that figuring how to pay for Yale was Rory's problem. Lorelai was under the impression that it'd be on her obtaining scholarships for Rory. It's just Lorelai was wrong about what it takes to be a scholarship student. After that, Lorelai felt it was her obligation to put off the inn dream to put Rory through university- like many parents would do. It was unprecedented and unexpected by everyone that Rory decided to raise money for Yale on her own, with her own agreement with the grandparents. However, it was hardly obviously to anyone, including Lorelai, that this was a conversation between Rory and the grandparents and Lorelai had no role or responsibility here until Rory made that happen. And frankly, Rory had to make that happen because Lorelai was being very immature and running hers and Sookie's career into the ground and probably even jeopardizing her continued ability to support herself and Rory out of pure spite unless Rory stepped in to be the grownup here. 

 

LORELAI: They're getting exactly what they want.

RORY: Don't you see? We're all getting exactly what we want. It's a win-win-win situation.

LORELAI: It's not.

RORY: It is.

LORELAI: Okay, maybe, maybe it is. But just once, just once, I want you to get exactly what you want, and me to get exactly what I want, and them to get nothing.

 

But it's not about that the grandparents were forbidden from asking Rory. It's just that I don't fault them at all for not asking Rory and I think it'd be kind of weird if they did. It's not unreasonable to assume that Lorelai already figured out to pay for university one way or another, given how frequently Lorelai patted herself on the back that she and Rory have been planning Harvard since Rory was 3 and how frequently Lorelai said that figuring out to get into an Ivy League school is none of E/R's business. It would be reasonable for Richard and Emily to assume that, like many parents, it was a point of pride that Lorelai was going to figure out how to put Rory through school or finagle the aid to make it happen. And just as a general rule, people who need help need to ask it for it. 

 

 

We're talking about two different things.  I can agree that it was a little irresponsible, but not to the degree you think.  I also think it was smart, not stupid, for Lorelai to pay the debt and get out from under Emily's thumb as soon as possible.  Then they could be on equal footing and both choose to build a relationship based on mutual understanding and love and respect and rather than on need and control.  I'm also of the opinion that Lorelai's "we're done" moment was necessary to pave the way for more understanding between the two by showing Emily that Lorelai could and would cut her completely out if she didn't back off from meddling in her life.  If Lorelai hadn't already paid off her debt it could not have happened.

 

First, even if Lorelai really had those good intentions to return the money to improve her relationship with her parents, I'd still find it financially stupid. Most people who live in a world of financial realities have to give up on perfect relationships or full self-actualization in order to afford necessities. Lorelai's job as a manager of the Independence Inn was a severe jeopardy. She was still responsible to help putting Rory through college. Lorelai returned an indefinite, interest-free loan back, leaving her without the money to pay far more impersonal entities like Yale or the vendors for a future inn for immediate goals. Based on the best possible interpretation emotions, Lorelai left herself without the money to put Rory through college and open her inn i.e. replace her income which was in jeopardy. To pay for both, Lorelai needed to be bailed by Luke in S4, arguably by Sookie coming up with the catering business idea, and her daughter and yes, Emily and Richard once again because Lorelai was ultimately incapable of finishing the parents' job of helping her kid pay for college or standing shoulder-to-shoulder with her kid to figure out how to raise money for college. That's not a personal triumph. Per that quoted section of Lorelai being particularly ridiculous in Those Are Strings.... and Rory's choice in Yale, Rory really served herself well by not listening to Lorelai because Lorelai's ONLY HARVARD advice and her "Cut off all ties for E/R because they deserve NOTHING" could have undermined her future. 

 

But then, I don't even credit Lorelai at all with these intentions that Lorelai was trying to build a great relationship with her parents, free from money and obligation. She wasn't. She was trying to get out of a weekly obligation and short-sightedly decided to play fast and loose with Rory's college and her livelihood/career to shake off a weekly obligation. Lorelai brought up as a hypothetical "Wouldn't you want to come here because we wanted to?", but then, immediately undermined the spirit of that comment by just saying that there MAY be for the....occasional Friday Night Dinner, to quote the lady herself, "Geeze, Mom, why don't you just say fat chance?"  If Lorelai was genuinely trying to build a good relationship here, she could make a promise that they'd see each other just as or even ALMOST as often. Instead, all Lorelai could offer is a pity "occasional" when pressed. 

 

But what's more, it'd already be ridiculous if Lorelai was trying to shake off a weekly obligation that Lorelai really genuinely hated and could fill up with something better easily. However, come the next weekend, Lorelai doesn't send a signal of a new moneyless relationship by going to FND. Instead, Lorelai and Rory sit on their couch having leftovers and then, Lorelai realized that FND were fun and they don't have something else to take their place. 

 

 

So what?  Lorelai had the right to say either one she wanted.  Was Emily upset because she was afraid she wouldn't see Lorelai anymore, or because she no longer had the power to demand that she visit?  Emily always seemed to forget that she could call and visit herself, and that by actually changing her behavior just a little the calls and visits might even be enjoyable for both of them.  Sorry, I just have no sympathy for any parent who tries to control their adult children and then complains that they don't have a good relationship.

 

Well, if you're saying that Lorelai was saying that she didn't intend to see them again, then defend Lorelai's choice on those merits. Then, it's not about Lorelai trying to build a relationship on a foundation of love and understanding without a need for money. It's about how Lorelai didn't want to see them again, other than very occasionally. Don't make more sympathetic loving reasons for why Lorelai was financially irresponsible. It was driven by spite, hate, and anger, not love or cravings for closeness. 

 

Emily calls A LOT throughout the series and invariably, Lorelai acts like it's a hindrance when she's not screening her calls and letting Emily go straight to voicemail. I don't want to start calculating it- but man, Emily calls Lorelai so, so, SO much more than Lorelai calls Emlly throughout the series. I think Richard and Emily took every invitation extended to them to come to Stars Hallow and Chilton, but they were infrequently extended invitations especially by Lorelai. Actually, I can't think of a time that Lorelai ever invited E/R to her home or to an event of hers unprompted which is yet another snub and hurt as a daughter. Oh wait, I can think of one- when Lorelai invited E/R to sit in a bridal suite at the new Dragonfly to mock them for their marital problems and put them through more pain. (Also, inviting Emily to the Booster Club fashion show- which was another practical joke/opportunity to mock Emily but certainly cuter and more benign that the stunt pulled in Raincoats and Recipes.) However, it's frankly more points in E/R's column for who tries to have a relationship and who doesn't that E/R have a standing invitation to the girls every Friday night for dinner and generally try to put together food and a meal if either girl, especially Rory, say they'll be dropping by, both Lorelai and Rory know that the Hartford home is aways open to them, and Emily, in particular, comes up with spa days or trips to Europe or auctions to buy choice pieces for the inn or chances for Richard to teach Rory golf or invitations tailored to their desires and interests. Rory comes up with invitations that her grandparents would like too to Stars Hallow/Chilton/Yale, but with her more limited resources. But Lorelai doesn't make any of that effort.

 

And E/R show up to Stars Hallow unannounced, engendering Lorelai's anger but obviously, they correctly don't make a habit of coming to the Crap Shack uninvited because the few times that they do, it's taken as rude and intrusive (and sometimes it is). 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Melancholy

[txhorns79]

No, the loan is being granted to Lorelai.  If it were being given to Emily there would be no need for a co-signer.

 

My point is the only reason the loan is being given is because of Emily's credit and assets.  That is who the bank has evaluated to be creditworthy, not Lorelai.  Lorelai's assets and credit were such that she could not get a loan.  She was told that point blank.     

[dustylil]

Then

by season two Lorelai decides its time to move forward with the Inn. Did that mean she had been

saving up for that instead?

 

Moving forward with the Inn didn't necessarily mean Lorelai intended to put much of her own money into it. Perhaps like many business people, she expected to get business loans and/or investors to get the Dragonfly Inn up and running. With that kind of leverage, there was no particular need to put her own personal financial situation at risk.

[txhorns79]

Moving forward with the Inn didn't necessarily mean Lorelai intended to put much of her own money into it. Perhaps like many business people, she expected to get business loans and/or investors to get the Dragonfly Inn up and running. With that kind of leverage, there was no particular need to put her own personal financial situation at risk.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something, but from what we saw, she did put a lot of her own money into the project.  Whatever money she got from Richard that wasn't paid back to to her parents went to buy the property.  I don't recall there being any outside investors until Luke bailed Lorelai out, and whatever business loans she may have had, she appeared to be on the edge of the financial abyss, both personally and commercially, until Luke came into the picture.

[shron17]

However, there was no universal understanding that figuring how to pay for Yale was Rory's problem. Lorelai was under the impression that it'd be on her obtaining scholarships for Rory. It's just Lorelai was wrong about what it takes to be a scholarship student.

In my recollection the student fills out part of the financial aid form and then the parent has to fill in financial information.  The financial aid they were expecting to get to help pay for Yale was turned down because of the $75,000 gift.  It's something Lorelai probably should have thought of, yet it's almost believable to overlook it since it was a one-time occurrence.  It didn't have anything to do with scholarships--Rory would have had to apply for those. 

 

And frankly, Rory had to make that happen because Lorelai was being very immature and running hers and Sookie's career into the ground and probably even jeopardizing her continued ability to support herself and Rory out of pure spite unless Rory stepped in to be the grownup here.

When Rory didn't get financial aid, Lorelai knew she had to defer on purchasing and renovating the Dragonfly and use that money for Yale.  I don't see it as ruining their careers--all they had to do was get jobs for a while and revisit the dream of having their own inn at another time when finances allowed.  And I have no doubt Lorelai was fully capable of continuing to support herself and Rory without Rory needing to pay their way. Once Rory had been accepted at Yale, I still think it's a bit odd that Richard and/or Emily wouldn't ask Rory if she needed money to pay for Yale.  But it's fine if no one agrees; I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. 

 

First, even if Lorelai really had those good intentions to return the money to improve her relationship with her parents, I'd still find it financially stupid.

I don't think Lorelai paid back the money she owed her parents in order to improve their relationship.  I think she did it so that Emily would no longer have control of any aspect of her life, and I think having that freedom opened the way for them to improve their relationship if they both were willing to work at it. 

 

It was driven by spite, hate, and anger, not love or cravings for closeness.

I don't understand how anyone would ever see paying off a debt as being done in spite, hate or anger.  It wasn't necessarily a reflection on Emily but a point of pride for Lorelai to pay her own way and be free to decide how she would spend Friday night.  I think everyone deserves to live their life their own way and be free to choose whether or not to interact with those people who disapprove and try to control you. And I can't see Lorelai ever craving to be close to Emily unless she finally learns to accept her the way she is and stop seeing her independence as an insult.

 

Emily calls A LOT throughout the series and invariably, Lorelai acts like it's a hindrance when she's not screening her calls and letting Emily go straight to voicemail.

This is very true; Emily did call Lorelai a lot.  Just from the first season alone Emily called demanding to know where Lorelai was all day, called to uninvite her to Christmas dinner because she couldn't be there at 6, told her she had invited Christopher's parents to dinner, and asked for the hat rack back, Never a "Hi Lorelai, I just wondered how you were."  I'm afraid I would see those calls as a hindrance also.  As for visits the very first time Emily and Richard came to Lorelai's house was Rory's birthday party when Lorelai had to beg Emily to come.  Anyway, I always thought Emily could have done a much better job at making her phone calls and visits more pleasant for them all.

My point is the only reason the loan is being given is because of Emily's credit and assets.  That is who the bank has evaluated to be creditworthy, not Lorelai.  Lorelai's assets and credit were such that she could not get a loan.  She was told that point blank.

I understand. Oftentimes a co-signer is required for someone without a credit history or proof of steady income--someone who probably could pay off the loan but doesn't have enough proof for the bank (like Lorelai).  It just seems to me that even a loan requiring a co-signer would probably only be offered to someone meeting certain basic requirements, but I could be wrong.

Edited March 19, 2016 by shron17

[dustylil]

I don't see it as ruining their careers--all they had to do was get jobs for a while and revisit the dream of having their own inn at another time when finances allowed.

 

I agree. From what we were given to understand, both Sookie and Lorelai were well regarded in the hospitality field. If Michel was able to find work after the fire at the Independence Inn, then surely the two women were likely to get jobs as well. And it is not as if Sookie was champing at the bit to get the Dragonfly up and running :)

Edited March 19, 2016 by dustylil

[JayInChicago]

Just a quick note: often times most student aid comes in the form of "school grants", at least at private colleges. Basically you would file your FAFSA and see what the college would actually calculate is your/family expected contribution (though this info is like 18 years old I'm pretty sure it's the same)--so per Lorelai's probably low middle class income, their family contribution could be expected to be as low as $10k or less a year. First years generally have small subsidized loans, maybe a few thousand. In school "grants" would pay the rest of the often shocking sticker price. Now, other loans would come into play if there was a big discrepancy between the family expected contribution and what they could actually pay.

Anyway, that's not to say a smart girl like Rory couldn't hustle up some outside scholarships. Didn't the Kiwanis give her $300 or something? Realistically a person in Rory's placement would cobble a few small scholarships together.

Edited March 19, 2016 by JayInChicago

[brightside]

I'm mean, honestly the whole "Grandpa's money took us out of the running for financial aid" thing is silly because FAFSA and financial aid is based on the previous year's tax fillings. It wouldn't have been an issue until Rory's sophomore year. 

 

But this is Gilmore Girls, where finances are made up and logic doesn't matter.

[dustylil]

At the very least I  would think that fancy-shmancy prep school could have provided some direction and assistance to Rory and her mother as they navigated the  financial issues. To avoid embarrassment to Chilton if nothing else - what with Rory being Valedictorian and all.

 

I can also  envision the headline in the human interest section of the Hartford Courant - "Local prep school valedictorian unable to attend Yale because she can't get student aid. Granddaughter of prominent, well-to-do family" ;)

[txhorns79]

At the very least I would think that fancy-shmancy prep school could have provided some direction and assistance to Rory and her mother as they navigated the  financial issues.

 

Given Lorelai's reaction when the school approached Rory about her lack of social interaction with the other students, I presume they learned very quickly to leave both she and Rory alone.     

[solotrek]

Once Rory had been accepted at Yale, I still think it's a bit odd that Richard and/or Emily wouldn't ask Rory if she needed money to pay for Yale.  But it's fine if no one agrees; I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

 

I get what some people are saying when E/R assume that Lorelai had it all covered. At the same time, these people had drinks and dinner together every week. I find it hard to believe that the conversation about college tuition didn't come up before Rory got accepted into Yale. I probably would have started asking Lorelai these questions when it became evident that she knew nothing about the college application process. "You mean you don't know your kid needs to apply to more than one school? Let's see what else you don't know. Stop acting like a petulant child and join us in the real world."

Edited March 20, 2016 by solotrek

[txhorns79]

I probably would have started asking Lorelai these questions when it became evident that she knew nothing about the college application process. "You mean you don't know your kid needs to apply to more than one school? Let's see what else you don't know. Stop acting like a petulant child and join us in the real world."

 

I'm sure you would then quickly find yourself the subject of a travel magazine article wherein Lorelai compares you to someone who slaughtered tens of thousands of people!  More seriously, my unpopular (or secretly popular?) opinion was that for someone who apparently had been dreaming of her kid going to Harvard for years, Lorelai was almost comically ignorant about the process (some of that is on Rory too).    

Edited March 20, 2016 by txhorns79

[dustylil]

Another approach ]the showrunners could have been taken regarding Yale, was having Christopher make some kind of cockamamie promise years ago that he would pay for Rory's college fees. And then when the time was near, he reneges - citing business problems. And of course he wouldn't go to Straub for the money.

That would account for the   lackadaisical attitude both Rory and Lorelai had to financially preparing for Yale and the indifference to the issue on the part of Chilton.

[txhorns79]

Another approach ]the showrunners could have been taken regarding Yale, was having Christopher make some kind of cockamamie promise years ago that he would pay for Rory's college fees. And then when the time was near, he reneges - citing business problems. And of course he wouldn't go to Straub for the money.

That would account for the   lackadaisical attitude both Rory and Lorelai had to financially preparing for Yale and the indifference to the issue on the part of Chilton.

 

Weren't we told that Christopher was mostly unreliable in all aspects of support?  It doesn't seem particularly plausible that Lorelai and Rory would have relied on such a grandiose promise. 

[andromeda331]

More seriously, my unpopular (or secretly popular?) opinion was that for someone who apparently had been dreaming of her kid going to Harvard for years, Lorelai was almost comically ignorant about the process (some of that is on Rory too).

She really was, wasn't she? I still can't figure out how she didn't know Rory need to apply to other colleges.

Every parent who ever sent a kid to college knew that, even if they had their heart set on one specific college

just in case they do get rejected. I'd be fine if Lorelai didn't want Rory to apply to Yale if they didn't have her

so shocked that her daughter need to apply anywhere else. She could have been encouraging Rory to

go to Harvard but also having backups just in case. Like say Columbia which I believe has a grad school for

Journalism or another college with a good journalism program?  I believe its been mentioned here that

Northwestern has one too.

[dirtypop90]

Weren't we told that Christopher was mostly unreliable in all aspects of support?  It doesn't seem particularly plausible that Lorelai and Rory would have relied on such a grandiose promise. 

 

That was when he was broke. I don't think he had an issue financially supporting others when he came into money. Gigi was around then and he had been supporting her. It doesn't take much to cut a check when you have the funds. And worst case scenario would be he stopped paying and rory had to use loans like most other students.

[dustylil]

I don't think he had an issue financially supporting others when he came into money.

 

Only when he came into loads and loads of money. He had been working steadily to the best of the viewers' knowledge since the second season. Yet he made no effort to provide financial support for his elder daughter or contribute to her college funding until he became a multimillionaire.

[dirtypop90]

Only when he came into loads and loads of money. He had been working steadily to the best of the viewers' knowledge since the second season. Yet he made no effort to provide financial support for his elder daughter or contribute to her college funding until he became a multimillionaire.

 

We really know nothing about that job or what he was making. But based on the description he gave Lorelai in PLG, he wasn't making anywhere close to 6 figures, so he couldn't pay for yale. He was able to afford a place with sherri in boston but we know sherri had a good job, one that would allow her to take a position in Paris.  He might not have been able to contribute to her college funding before he came into family money. Many students have parents who work but can't/don't contribute to their college funding and so have to take out loans.

 

I'm only talking about chris paying for yale, a very expensive school, not paying child support to Lorelai. And based on lorelai and rory's reaction to chris offering money, seems they didn't like taking money from anyone for anything, that includes Chris. Because money always came with strings attached. Chris had to promise to cut the check even if rory never wanted to spend time with him, which is nuts. IMO Most parents aren't cutting huge checks for kids that won't speak to them.

 

Which brings me to another possible UO. Rory was a disrespectful brat. I often had issues with her tone when she was speaking to her mom, grandma, or father when she was mad about something. Even if she was upset, she needed to keep it respectful. IMO And I thought she got out of line quite a few times, perhaps because loreali was a kid when she had her, so she didn't see an issue with it and therefore never corrected her.

Edited March 20, 2016 by dirtypop90

[dustylil]

nd based on lorelai and rory's reaction to chris offering money, seems they didn't like taking money from anyone for anything, that includes Chris.

 

What reaction was this? When he finally finished babbling about all of his new money, what he was doing for Gigi, checking if there was anything he could buy for Lorelai, he got around to questioning if there was something Rory might like. Lorelai gently and politely said there was nothing she needed or wanted. However, she would check with Rory - which she did. That seemed to me to be a courteous and normal response in such circumstances.  It certainly would not have been appropriate for Lorelai to take money, castles or breweries from him.

 

When Lorelai did speak with Rory, she - somewhat timidly I thought - asked if  Christopher could pay for Yale so she could get out from under her obligation to Richard and Emily. After some discussion of the pros and cons, it was decided that it made sense. Lorelai, Rory and Christopher then got together a few days later to catch up and get the college funding process in train. Rory thanked her father most sincerely.

 

It was all quite warm and civil. There were no nasty cracks or caustic jabs. Given family was involved, it was most un-Gilmore-like ;)

 Chris had to promise to cut the check even if rory never wanted to spend time with him, which is nuts. IMO Most parents aren't cutting huge checks for kids that won't speak to them

 

With respect, when did this take place? Certainly not at the time he agreed to pay for Yale. And I think the next time we saw Christopher he was touring the campus with Rory and bonding with Logan.