One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[stan4]

Oh!  And I HATE that they made Michel gay.  HATE. 

As a straight guy, he was quirky and hilarious.  As a gay man, he's an obnoxious, insulting  cliche.

 

Also, maybe it's bc I hate stereotypes (effin lazy), but I never assumed he was gay prior to the revival.  Especially bc there were subtle scenes that spoke to the contrary.  For example,  that whine about how the Deans of the world always get the Lindsays.

NOT how the Lindsays got the Deans.

 

Of course, ASP crapped all over the characters in the revival (probably as a giant F you to everyone who was able to move on with their lives when she was dumped from the show).

 

But Michel was a true travesty.

[stan4]

On 11/24/2017 at 1:36 PM, deaja said:

I like the Jess that did quiet, unassuming things to show he had changed. Showing up at his mom’s wedding and telling Luke it was for him, etc. Not “show up in theGilmores driveway and yell at Rory” changed Jess. Or I guess you could say, I liked his more mature actions relating to Luke, but didn’t really care at that point about him/Rory.

I like how when Jess does a normal, considerate thing that all non-psycho people would do, people fall all over themselves to congratulate him. 

[stan4]

Zach is a rude, dumb, slovenly man-child who can't sing.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

2 hours ago, stan4 said:

Oh!  And I HATE that they made Michel gay.  HATE. 

As a straight guy, he was quirky and hilarious.  As a gay man, he's an obnoxious, insulting  cliche.

 

Also, maybe it's bc I hate stereotypes (effin lazy), but I never assumed he was gay prior to the revival.  Especially bc there were subtle scenes that spoke to the contrary.  For example,  that whine about how the Deans of the world always get the Lindsays.

NOT how the Lindsays got the Deans.

 

Of course, ASP crapped all over the characters in the revival (probably as a giant F you to everyone who was able to move on with their lives when she was dumped from the show).

 

But Michel was a true travesty.

 

2 hours ago, stan4 said:

I like how when Jess does a normal, considerate thing that all non-psycho people would do, people fall all over themselves to congratulate him. 

Stan, I do believe you and I are two peas in a pod.  I hated making Michel gay, as well.  Did they really have to go for that stereotype?  And I agree about all of the subtlety that spoke to the contrary.  Why go there for the revival?

And yes about Jess!  Guy was an absolute scumbag so when I does something that is just normal and not scumbagish, he is praised for being so wonderfully sweet by fans.  That's ridiculous.  He was a horrible person to everyone except Rory while trying to get Rory, didn't respect her boundaries that she tried to set with him, broke up her and Dean because he didn't respect those boundaries, treated her like dirt when he finally got her, tried to force her to go farther than she wanted, guilted her when she told him no, and then got all pissy with her after she said no.  And that's supposed to be some great catch?  People need to up their standards if that is their idea of a real life Prince Charming.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Stan, I do believe you and I are two peas in a pod.  I hated making Michel gay, as well.  Did they really have to go for that stereotype?  And I agree about all of the subtlety that spoke to the contrary.  Why go there for the revival?

I would have much preferred they left it as undefined.  Michel, now knowing that he is gay, pretty much checks off every box of a stereotype.  I feel like they were trying to be inclusive, but instead it ended up as stereotyping.  It would have felt more inclusive if they hadn't chosen a stereotyped character to come out.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

Michel, now knowing that he is gay, pretty much checks off every box of a stereotype.

Absolutely.  Perhaps ASP read the criticism of her lily white, straight world and decided to throw Michel under the bus.  Gay is fine but beating us over the head with the stereotypical behaviors stick was just insulting. 

And Michel managed to kill two birds with one stone - a person of color AND gay.  Lane and Mrs. Kim were the other non-Caucasions and we had three (count them three!) overweight persons in Miss Patty, Sookie, and Babette. 

Well rounded cast there, ASP.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Absolutely.  Perhaps ASP read the criticism of her lily white, straight world and decided to throw Michel under the bus.  Gay is fine but beating us over the head with the stereotypical behaviors stick was just insulting. 

And Michel managed to kill two birds with one stone - a person of color AND gay.  Lane and Mrs. Kim were the other non-Caucasions and we had three (count them three!) overweight persons in Miss Patty, Sookie, and Babette. 

Well rounded cast there, ASP.

Small New England towns do tend to be pretty white.  There was literally one black kid in my high school and he was a year behind me, so there weren't any in my grade.  And, I'm not sure if you were complaining that there were too many overweight people, but considering the fact that 16% of the CT pop in 200 was obese (which was probably twice the non-white pop of a small CT town), they probably should have had more overweight people.

Now, when we get into the Yale/Hartford population, there should probably be more minorities.  I don't recall seeing any black people during Yale Campus scenes, but to be fair, it's not like I was specifically looking for them.

[Kohola3]

12 minutes ago, Katy M said:

And, I'm not sure if you were complaining that there were too many overweight people, but considering the fact that 16% of the CT pop in 200 was obese (which was probably twice the non-white pop of a small CT town), they probably should have had more overweight people.

Nope, I was meaning that it was (statistically) not at all realistic.  I'm surprised she allowed 3 with her obvious disgust for those overweight.

And I agree about Yale - no minorities there, either.  But ASP's world is, well, just not the real world.  Or anything closely resembling it.  I hate all those insipid Hallmark movies for the same reason.  All white, all the time.  One token person of color on occasion but usually just as a distant friend or assistant or in the background in a crowd.  And never anyone Asian or Arabic.  Ever.

[Rachel81]

17 hours ago, stan4 said:

Ooh, I have many unpopular opinions.

 

1.  Rory and Lorelai are simply horrible people.  Self-absorbed narcissists who have the gall to get upset at other people for the same behavior (or even behavior that isn't nearly as bad).

2.  Logan was Rory's best fit (educated, similar goals/background, challenged her, etc) and actually one of the only characters who demonstrated personal growth (until it was taken back in the revival).

3.  The revival was total drek.  I mean, it was BEYOND garbage.

4.  Jess is a dick.  I have met and know many guys like Jess and they are exhausting and they are generally dicks.  He was a HORRIBLE boyfriend and then gets mad when his gf tries to stop him from mauling her.  He's rude to everyone, he thinks his snarky "cynicism" makes him cool, and he hits below the belt for no reason.  I will never understand why anyone is "Team Jess."

5.  I liked Season 7.

6.  Rory's story lines were the most boring for me.

A simple "heart" isn't enough; I gotta give you a hug.

I put reruns on in the background while I'm doing other things, and the more I watch, the less I like Lorelai and Rory. Very self-absorbed, very loud, often shrill. And I'm 103% with you on #2 and 4. Yes, Jess showed profound growth, but that's not difficult, given that he started down at rock bottom.

[stan4]

Everyone loves Richard.

 

The guy who lets his mother act perfectly horribly to his wife.  

 

The guy who rudely rants about how Dean isn't good enough for Rory (bc money, grades, legacy, culture/different worlds), but then loses his mind when the Huntzbergers do the same to her for pretty much the same reasons.

 

The guy who treats his wife like crap whenever he's in a bad mood.

 

The guy who stabs his partner in the back to get with the guy who stabbed him.

 

The guy who rather immorally uses his position as insurer of a business to blackmail it into ruining someone else's event so he can have some totally pointless last minute party...and then giggles about it.

 

This is not a good person.

[ghoulina]

On 1/8/2018 at 0:55 AM, stan4 said:

  Jess is a dick.  I have met and know many guys like Jess and they are exhausting and they are generally dicks.  He was a HORRIBLE boyfriend and then gets mad when his gf tries to stop him from mauling her.  He's rude to everyone, he thinks his snarky "cynicism" makes him cool, and he hits below the belt for no reason.  I will never understand why anyone is "Team Jess."

Jess absolutely was a dick. At first. The reason I'm Team Jess is because I think he's also one who showed personal growth - immense personal growth. And, IMO, he had a lot more to overcome than Logan did. Jess got his shit together. He apologized to Luke and paid him back. He wrote a book and opened his own business(es). That's awesome! He may not have been solely responsible for Rory leaving her grandparents and going back to Yale, but he gave her one hell of a push. Jess had a huge chip on his shoulder because he had a shitty upbringing. It doesn't excuse his shitty behavior, but he was a teenager. I'd be willing to give him a second chance. He changed by leaps and bounds, IMO. The Jess we last saw was not that same horrible kid. 

[stan4]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Jess absolutely was a dick. At first. The reason I'm Team Jess is because I think he's also one who showed personal growth - immense personal growth. And, IMO, he had a lot more to overcome than Logan did. Jess got his shit together. He apologized to Luke and paid him back. He wrote a book and opened his own business(es). That's awesome! He may not have been solely responsible for Rory leaving her grandparents and going back to Yale, but he gave her one hell of a push. Jess had a huge chip on his shoulder because he had a shitty upbringing. It doesn't excuse his shitty behavior, but he was a teenager. I'd be willing to give him a second chance. He changed by leaps and bounds, IMO. The Jess we last saw was not that same horrible kid. 

I have to agree he got better for the 5 seconds we saw him here and there.

But his suspicious, unexplained  off-screen "growth" is as lamely convenient as it is unlikely.

[Kohola3]

I'm not sure that self publishing what appeared to be much more than an over-sized pamphlet and opening a very small business with a gaggle of friends would qualify as immense personal growth.  He reluctantly showed up for his mother's wedding so I will give him some praise for that and apologized to Luke which was certainly overdue.  Other than that, I've got nothing in the growth department.  We just didn't see enough of him to really establish that as the case.

[ghoulina]

I think for someone who had no real support system through most of his childhood, and who didn't finish his formal education, being able to open a business and write a book (I'm not really bothered by how small it was; you gotta start somewhere. I have been dreaming of writing a book for ages, but the idea also scares me shitless. Good on him for publishing ANYTHING.) is a pretty big deal. He had NOTHING when he left Luke. Repairing things with his dad didn't work out. Next thing you know he was living in a horrible slum of an apartment with several dudes and delivering messages for a living. He could have easily just kept barely scraping by. IMO, you could tell by his general demeanor and look that things were better for him. He was still fairly young, so it's quite possible that he would write more and his business would grow as well. It's so easy to get defeated by your past. I was glad to see that he chose to let go of the surly attitude, try to repair things with people, and live a life that was both meaningful to him and respectable. 

Yea, most of that "growth" happened off-screen, which makes sense since he wasn't a big part of Rory or Luke's life during that time. I don't find it all that unbelievable, though. Again, he was YOUNG. He grew up. It happens all the time. 

[elang4]

11 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I think for someone who had no real support system through most of his childhood, and who didn't finish his formal education, being able to open a business and write a book (I'm not really bothered by how small it was; you gotta start somewhere. I have been dreaming of writing a book for ages, but the idea also scares me shitless. Good on him for publishing ANYTHING.) is a pretty big deal. He had NOTHING when he left Luke. Repairing things with his dad didn't work out. Next thing you know he was living in a horrible slum of an apartment with several dudes and delivering messages for a living. He could have easily just kept barely scraping by. IMO, you could tell by his general demeanor and look that things were better for him. He was still fairly young, so it's quite possible that he would write more and his business would grow as well. It's so easy to get defeated by your past. I was glad to see that he chose to let go of the surly attitude, try to repair things with people, and live a life that was both meaningful to him and respectable. 

Yea, most of that "growth" happened off-screen, which makes sense since he wasn't a big part of Rory or Luke's life during that time. I don't find it all that unbelievable, though. Again, he was YOUNG. He grew up. It happens all the time. 

Totally agree!! I’m Team Jess but that doesn’t mean I actually like him and Rory together. They both made mistakes in their relationship and Jess was still going through stuff. I’m not saying that was an excuse but I think if they had met later, it might be a different story. I liked Jess and how he grew up. Yes, it happened off screen but it still happened and it was obvious he wanted to make amends and we saw that. People get down on Jess for being a dick but what about Dean and Logan’s flaws. They weren’t perfect either. No one is.

[Kohola3]

35 minutes ago, elang4 said:

People get down on Jess for being a dick but what about Dean and Logan’s flaws.

Seriously?  There are a boatload of entries dissing both of these guys.

[elang4]

3 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Seriously?  There are a boatload of entries dissing both of these guys.

I’m sure there are but I meant the more recent ones. And to be fair, in general, a lot of people do say Jess is the jerk out of all of them which I don’t really understand. I wasn’t calling anyone out, it’s just my opinion. I meant no offence.

[Kohola3]

10 minutes ago, elang4 said:

I meant no offence.

None taken.  I just think the hate flows down all three hills pretty evenly!

[Katy M]

I always thought Logan was the biggest jerk, followed by Jess and then Dean.  Except that I have to flip Dean to the top of the lsit for cheating on Lindsey.

[elang4]

4 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

None taken.  I just think the hate flows down all three hills pretty evenly!

I’m not sure about that though. I know people have said negative things about each boyfriend but I think Jess always gets the worse hate because he was a bad boy and he was a jerk when he and Rory were together. As I’ve said before, I don’t excuse some of his behaviour but Dean and Logan do get away with a lot as well. Jess wasn’t the only one who treated her badly. And then people hate on Jess still when he grows up and tries to make amends. I just don’t get it at all.

[Taryn74]

5 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

I just think the hate flows down all three hills pretty evenly!

Ha ha ha I could write novels on why I hate Dean.  HATE Dean.  Yet I unashamedly love Jess.

Jess was a jerk when he arrived on the scene, but Rory never once acted literally frightened of him.  Can't say the same for Dean.

[elang4]

Just now, Taryn74 said:

Ha ha ha I could write novels on why I hate Dean.  HATE Dean.  Yet I unashamedly love Jess.

Jess was a jerk when he arrived on the scene, but Rory never once acted literally frightened of him.  Can't say the same for Dean.

I agree. I was really uncomfortable when Dean was shouting at her in the kitchen when he realised Jess had been there. Rory looked like a rabbit in the headlights. No wonder Paris stepped in to help her!! 

[Taryn74]

12 minutes ago, elang4 said:

I agree. I was really uncomfortable when Dean was shouting at her in the kitchen when he realised Jess had been there. Rory looked like a rabbit in the headlights. 

That's the one that gets me too.  Also when Dean is reading the letter she wrote him about the car wreck.  She just legitimately seems scared of him in a way she never did with Jess or Logan either one.

[Kohola3]

And my hatred for Smarmy McSmirk knows no bounds.  I found not one single redeeming feature in Richie Rich or his band of supercilious asses.

[elang4]

1 minute ago, Taryn74 said:

That's the one that gets me too.  Also when Dean is reading the letter she wrote him about the car wreck.  She just legitimately seems scared of him in a way she never did with Jess or Logan either one.

Yeah I agree. Don’t get me wrong, Jess did provoke Dean a lot but I just got really uncomfortable about how possessive and controlling Dean got. He got jealous of Tristan as well and Rory didn’t even like Tristan!! He should have just trusted her.

2 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

And my hatred for Smarmy McSmirk knows no bounds.  I found not one single redeeming feature in Richie Rich or his band of supercilious asses.

See it’s weird. I wasn’t sure about Logan to begin with but when they had him mature, I started to like him. And it was clear he did genuinely love Rory. But then they totally ruined him in the revival.

[WhoaWhoKnew]

All the men in the show, save for Morrie (sp?), are hostile and unpleasant. 

[Kohola3]

21 minutes ago, WhoaWhoKnew said:

All the men in the show, save for Morrie (sp?), are hostile and unpleasant. 

Loved Maury!  Such a sweetie. So tolerant of Babette's quirks.  

And while Kirk wasn't hostile and unpleasant, he was just plain weird.

[elang4]

2 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Loved Maury!  Such a sweetie. So tolerant of Babette's quirks.  

And while Kirk wasn't hostile and unpleasant, he was just plain weird.

And Jackson! Loved Jackson!! ?

[Kohola3]

35 minutes ago, elang4 said:

See it’s weird. I wasn’t sure about Logan to begin with but when they had him mature, I started to like him. And it was clear he did genuinely love Rory.

To me the culmination of his selfish, possessive attitude was demanding that Rory marry him or he'd walk away. Which he did. I hated that "my way or the highway" attitude.

2 minutes ago, elang4 said:

And Jackson! Loved Jackson!!

Oh, I forgot our sweet vegetable man.  Although the whole vasectomy thing lost him some major points.

[elang4]

1 minute ago, Kohola3 said:

To me the culmination of his selfish, possessive attitude was demanding that Rory marry him or he'd walk away. Which he did. I hated that "my way or the highway" attitude.

Oh, I forgot our sweet vegetable man.  Although the whole vasectomy thing lost him some major points.

Yeah that was wrong of Logan to give Rory the ultimatum like that. A bit like what Lorelai did to Luke.

 

Yeah I agree he shouldn’t have hidden that but then I think Sookie shouldn’t have demanded him to have it like she did either. They should have talked about it.

[tarotx]

Jess was unpleasant onscreen to Lorelai and as a boyfriend to Rory. His development was off screen and what we see is limited screen time. No real testing of any offscreen development.

In season 2, Jess questioned why Rory was with Dean plus rather foreign correspondence was for her.  Season 3 had the big moment in Keg max. And then left.  In season 4 he came back expecting Rory to run off with him because he knew her best of all. In season 6 he gets mad at her for her choices. Which I know fans adore him for but when has he supported Who Rory is at the moment? 

When Jess comes back after a year he messes with Rory's head more then he already has and sends her running into Dean's bed. Dean seemed dependable and safe. Imo because Jess ended things using sex in a how and where Rory not being ready to give consent situration, Rory started the Dean and Logan relationships with Sex. The Wookiee too :p 

Logan asking Rory to marry him and him not ready to go forward without some kind of true commitment was a selfish for "me" moment but sometimes you have to do that. LIke Lorelai demanding Luke elope. What I hated was that it was a boring proposal in front of her grandparents' friends. Logan would form a sub-party to ask Rory. Outside by the carriage if nothing else. And he would have waited until the graduation. A themed Party afterwards fits better imo. And the whole break up did make me sad of course. 

[elang4]

One of my unpopular opinions is that I actually don’t think the Keg, Max scene in the bedroom was as bad as people say. I don’t agree with people saying it was attempted rape at all. Yes, Jess shouldn’t have got so carried away and shouldn’t have shouted at Rory afterwards but he knew that immediately and ran after her. I see the scene as Jess thinking he’s failed in everything and wants to feel like Rory still wants him. He shouldn’t have got so carried away but he stopped when Rory told him to. It was in no way attempted rape imo.

Now I’m going to go hide behind something big...?

[WhoaWhoKnew]

52 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Loved Maury!  Such a sweetie. So tolerant of Babette's quirks.  

And while Kirk wasn't hostile and unpleasant, he was just plain weird.

I forgot about Kirk and Lane's band tbh. They were cool.

I think 90% of the characters were horrible ambassadors for Stars Hollow!

Edited January 10, 2018 by WhoaWhoKnew

[WhoaWhoKnew]

25 minutes ago, elang4 said:

but he stopped when Rory told him to.

Rory had to tell him more than once though. I recall (I could be wrong about this one though) she had to resort to pushing him off of her cause he would not stop.

[elang4]

11 minutes ago, WhoaWhoKnew said:

Rory had to tell him more than once though. I recall (I could be wrong about this one though) she had to resort to pushing him off of her cause he would not stop.

She said wait to him but then kept kissing him. When she realised he wanted more, she pushed him off. He didn’t force her onto the bed and I highly doubt he would have done anything more seeing as she was being more vocal. I’m not saying that maybe he should have stopped earlier but I just don’t believe he forced himself on her either. She seemed happy at the beginning. It was just when she realised he wanted more that she stopped. I know I’m probably in the minority but that’s just how I feel.

[Taryn74]

42 minutes ago, elang4 said:

One of my unpopular opinions is that I actually don’t think the Keg, Max scene in the bedroom was as bad as people say. I don’t agree with people saying it was attempted rape at all. Yes, Jess shouldn’t have got so carried away and shouldn’t have shouted at Rory afterwards but he knew that immediately and ran after her. I see the scene as Jess thinking he’s failed in everything and wants to feel like Rory still wants him. He shouldn’t have got so carried away but he stopped when Rory told him to. It was in no way attempted rape imo.

Now I’m going to go hide behind something big...?

TESTIFY.  I actually find it pretty damn problematic and insulting to call that "attempted rape".  He never forced himself on her or even attempted to, really.  Maybe he should have stopped at the first "Jess, wait" but personally I don't expect an 18 year old boy (girl, either) to be in perfect control of his hormones at all times.  

I would like to also point out that Rory came into the bedroom and shut the door, Rory started kissing him first, Rory had no problem laying down on the bed with him.  Not "shaming" her or "blaming" her in any way, but I can see why he would think she was okay with moving forward.

Neither one of them is any more to blame here than the other, is all I'm saying.

 

14 minutes ago, WhoaWhoKnew said:

Rory had to tell him more than once though. I recall (I could be wrong about this one though) she had to resort to pushing him off of her cause he would not stop.

She murmured "Jess, wait" twice when he was fumbling with her jacket and then said "Jess!" more forcefully when he started fiddling with her jeans and jumped up.  Should he have stopped at the first?  In a perfect world, yes.  Absolutely.  But this isn't a perfect world and IMO this scene does not make him a horrible person at all.

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, WhoaWhoKnew said:

All the men in the show, save for Morrie (sp?), are hostile and unpleasant. 

I didn't find Richard hostile or unpleasant.

 

49 minutes ago, elang4 said:

One of my unpopular opinions is that I actually don’t think the Keg, Max scene in the bedroom was as bad as people say. I don’t agree with people saying it was attempted rape at all. Yes, Jess shouldn’t have got so carried away and shouldn’t have shouted at Rory afterwards but he knew that immediately and ran after her. I see the scene as Jess thinking he’s failed in everything and wants to feel like Rory still wants him. He shouldn’t have got so carried away but he stopped when Rory told him to. It was in no way attempted rape imo.

It was definitely not attempted rape.  If he'd wanted to rape her, there was nothing that stopped him, so I'm not sure how anyone can even make that argument.  

 

4 minutes ago, elang4 said:

She said wait to him but then kept kissing him. When she realised he wanted more, she pushed him off. He didn’t force her onto the bed and I highly doubt he would have done anything more seeing as she was being more vocal. I’m not saying that maybe he should have stopped earlier but I just don’t believe he forced himself on her either. She seemed happy at the beginning. It was just when she realised he wanted more that she stopped. I know I’m probably in the minority but that’s just how I feel.

I feel pretty much the same way about this as when Dean told Rory he loved her.  Jess didn't necessarily do anything wrong letting Rory know (by his actions) that he wanted sex.  But, he was pretty petulant about her rejecting that.  Same with Dean.  He did nothing wrong telling Rory that he loved her, but he was a jerk to her when she wasn't ready to return that.  People need to move along at their own pace.  Now, if you need more than you're getting, go ahead and break up with the person.  It's not like at the teenage level, anybody expects you to be having a lifetime commitment, but don't act like the other person has wronged you.

[WhoaWhoKnew]

I just realized I don't really like anyone except Paris. 

[elang4]

3 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

TESTIFY.  I actually find it pretty damn problematic and insulting to call that "attempted rape".  He never forced himself on her or even attempted to, really.  Maybe he should have stopped at the first "Jess, wait" but personally I don't expect an 18 year old boy (girl, either) to be in perfect control of his hormones at all times.  

I would like to also point out that Rory came into the bedroom and shut the door, Rory started kissing him first, Rory had no problem laying down on the bed with him.  Not "shaming" her or "blaming" her in any way, but I can see why he would think she was okay with moving forward.

Neither one of them is any more to blame here than the other, is all I'm saying.

 

She murmured "Jess, wait" twice when he was fumbling with her jacket and then said "Jess!" more forcefully when he started fiddling with her jeans and jumped up.  Should he have stopped at the first?  In a perfect world, yes.  Absolutely.  But this isn't a perfect world and IMO this scene does not make him a horrible person at all.

Absolutely agree! You’re right, maybe Jess should have stopped at the first “Jess, wait” but Rory wasn’t very firm about it. She said it so quietly that Jess probably didn’t even hear her seeing as he was so in the moment. I agree with you that it is insulting to genuine victims to call what happened attempted rape. Jess in no way forced Rory to do anything.

 

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I didn't find Richard hostile or unpleasant.

 

It was definitely not attempted rape.  If he'd wanted to rape her, there was nothing that stopped him, so I'm not sure how anyone can even make that argument.  

 

I feel pretty much the same way about this as when Dean told Rory he loved her.  Jess didn't necessarily do anything wrong letting Rory know (by his actions) that he wanted sex.  But, he was pretty petulant about her rejecting that.  Same with Dean.  He did nothing wrong telling Rory that he loved her, but he was a jerk to her when she wasn't ready to return that.  People need to move along at their own pace.  Now, if you need more than you're getting, go ahead and break up with the person.  It's not like at the teenage level, anybody expects you to be having a lifetime commitment, but don't act like the other person has wronged you.

I agree.

2 minutes ago, WhoaWhoKnew said:

I just realized I don't really like anyone except Paris. 

Then why even watch it? ??

[WhoaWhoKnew]

14 minutes ago, elang4 said:

 

Then why even watch it? ??

HOW DARE YOU!

I like that the storylines and characters don't seem like much, but they're still somehow complex enough to watch over and over and talk about for days. 

I also like that I seem to change opinions about events and characters after each rewatch. So maybe in a few months I'll think Paris should have stayed on permanent Spring Break with Louise and Madeline.

I have the same relationship with Beverly Hills, 90210.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, WhoaWhoKnew said:

I like that the storylines and characters don't seem like much, but they're still somehow complex enough to watch over and over and talk about for days. 

 

Heck, we're all talking about it years later!

[shron17]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I feel pretty much the same way about this as when Dean told Rory he loved her.  Jess didn't necessarily do anything wrong letting Rory know (by his actions) that he wanted sex.  But, he was pretty petulant about her rejecting that.  Same with Dean. 

I agree, but the one big difference is that Jess was petulant in that situation because of the other big things he was going through at the time (not graduating, meeting his dad).  And as far as I could tell the only thing upsetting Dean was Rory's reaction to his declaration of love during their special date.   It's kind of a pet peeve of mine though, that someone would get upset about not saying I love you back, especially in high school.

[elang4]

4 hours ago, WhoaWhoKnew said:

HOW DARE YOU!

I like that the storylines and characters don't seem like much, but they're still somehow complex enough to watch over and over and talk about for days. 

I also like that I seem to change opinions about events and characters after each rewatch. So maybe in a few months I'll think Paris should have stayed on permanent Spring Break with Louise and Madeline.

I have the same relationship with Beverly Hills, 90210.

Haha yeah I get what you mean! ?

[HeySandyStrange]

11 hours ago, elang4 said:

I’m not sure about that though. I know people have said negative things about each boyfriend but I think Jess always gets the worse hate because he was a bad boy and he was a jerk when he and Rory were together. As I’ve said before, I don’t excuse some of his behaviour but Dean and Logan do get away with a lot as well. Jess wasn’t the only one who treated her badly. And then people hate on Jess still when he grows up and tries to make amends. I just don’t get it at all.

I don't know, in my experience Dean is often vilified the most out of the three bfs, or at least the least liked out of bfs. Jess is usually the most well liked, to the point that he is often placed on a pedestal. Logan is somewhere in the middle. I feel that a lot of Jess's behavior is justified and accepted more then the other two, because of his and the Rory/Jess ship's popularity. Because this is an unpopular opinions thread, it may seem like people are coming down harder on Jess, probably because the general popular opinion is that he is the favorite bf. 

My personal unpopular opinion is that Jess isn't either a great character or a horrible one. In a cast of interesting , dynamic characters he really isn't much more then average to me, at best. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by HeySandyStrange

[stan4]

Jess wasn't just a jerk to Rory.  He was a jerk to everyone all the time.

And we never ever saw that that changed.  He simply wasn't on screen long enough after his miraculous transformation to really see it.

Anything we did seem him do is simply basic decency.

And I guess I know too many people who have had really sucky childhoods (way worse than what we're given for his) who aren't total dicks to everyone.  

[elang4]

7 minutes ago, stan4 said:

Jess wasn't just a jerk to Rory.  He was a jerk to everyone all the time.

And we never ever saw that that changed.  He simply wasn't on screen long enough after his miraculous transformation to really see it.

Anything we did seem him do is simply basic decency.

And I guess I know too many people who have had really sucky childhoods (way worse than what we're given for his) who aren't total dicks to everyone.  

I agree he probably could have made a bit more effort but the town weren’t very welcoming to him either. The two people who were nice to him, he did make amends with in the end. I also always felt Lorelai judged him too harshly. She held a grudge from that first meeting with him. Yes, Jess shouldn’t have said what he did but as Rory said, it was his first day and he was angry. Lorelai should have given him a second chance. People question why Jess didn’t make an effort with her but why should he if she can’t be bothered to make an effort with him? The only time Lorelai did make an effort was in Lost and Found and because of that, Jess made an effort too.

[stan4]

44 minutes ago, elang4 said:

I agree he probably could have made a bit more effort but the town weren’t very welcoming to him either. The two people who were nice to him, he did make amends with in the end. I also always felt Lorelai judged him too harshly. She held a grudge from that first meeting with him. Yes, Jess shouldn’t have said what he did but as Rory said, it was his first day and he was angry. Lorelai should have given him a second chance. People question why Jess didn’t make an effort with her but why should he if she can’t be bothered to make an effort with him? The only time Lorelai did make an effort was in Lost and Found and because of that, Jess made an effort too.

Yeah. the town was pretty down on him, but that was only after he went around stealing baseballs and gnomes, etc.  We didn't really see any town opinion on him prior to his tomfoolery and petty crime.  I don't blame him for leaving.  That town pretty much gives you one chance to make an impression and then never changes their mind.

 

I just recently rewatched the episode in which he comes to town.  He is immediately rude to Luke.  He's immediately rude to Lorelai (who actually gives him not one, but TWO chances to have a reasonable, non-jerky conversation with her before she goes off on her tirade about how 'lucky' he is).  I'm an advocate for kids, but 17 years old is old enough to know better.  The only person he's not immediately a jerk to is Rory, but he rectifies that later once he gets her.  Then he can't bother to be interested in anything or anyone she cares about.  How he talks to Clara is pretty disgusting, too.

 

If he wasn't reasonably good-looking, I don't think as many people would have considered being Team Jess.

 

I also agree with the posters who said that Dean turned into a scary, obsessive whiny baby way too often.

[Kohola3]

3 minutes ago, stan4 said:

I just recently rewatched the episode in which he comes to town.  He is immediately rude to Luke.  He's immediately rude to Lorelai (who actually gives him not one, but TWO chances to have a reasonable, non-jerky conversation with her before she goes off on her tirade about how 'lucky' he is).  I'm an advocate for kids, but 17 years old is old enough to know better.  The only person he's not immediately a jerk to is Rory, but he rectifies that later once he gets her.  Then he can't bother to be interested in anything or anyone she cares about.  How he talks to Clara is pretty disgusting, too.

THIS!  You had a bad mommy.  Get over it.

[elang4]

30 minutes ago, stan4 said:

Yeah. the town was pretty down on him, but that was only after he went around stealing baseballs and gnomes, etc.  We didn't really see any town opinion on him prior to his tomfoolery and petty crime.  I don't blame him for leaving.  That town pretty much gives you one chance to make an impression and then never changes their mind.

 

I just recently rewatched the episode in which he comes to town.  He is immediately rude to Luke.  He's immediately rude to Lorelai (who actually gives him not one, but TWO chances to have a reasonable, non-jerky conversation with her before she goes off on her tirade about how 'lucky' he is).  I'm an advocate for kids, but 17 years old is old enough to know better.  The only person he's not immediately a jerk to is Rory, but he rectifies that later once he gets her.  Then he can't bother to be interested in anything or anyone she cares about.  How he talks to Clara is pretty disgusting, too.

 

If he wasn't reasonably good-looking, I don't think as many people would have considered being Team Jess.

 

I also agree with the posters who said that Dean turned into a scary, obsessive whiny baby way too often.

Yeah but to be fair, Lorelai was against the idea of Luke having Jess stay from the beginning. She tried to warn him against it.

[stan4]

4 minutes ago, elang4 said:

Yeah but to be fair, Lorelai was against the idea of Luke having Jess stay from the beginning. She tried to warn him against it.

Jess didn't know that.

She sees him at the diner and is friendly - blows her off rudely.

She tries again at her house - is rude again...then the whole tirade thing happens.

Then she's all Lorelai nutty "I told you so" blah blah.