One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[dustylil]

1. 3 hours ago, readster said:

Of course in the world of AS-P, GEDs were non existence just like Jess thinking Walmart and his POS car was his ticket to getting out of Stars Hollow

Lorelai getting her GED was mentioned earlier in that same season when she gave her ill-fated talk at Stars Hollow High School. GEDs  were scarcely non-existent, even to ASP.

With respect, why shouldn't Jess think working at Walmart and his crappy car were his ticket to getting out of Stars Hollow? It wasn't as if he was hoping to get a scholarship to some vaunted university in astrophysics or had other high falutin' ambitions. At that point in time, he  appeared to want independence,  time to read and Rory in his life. Employment at Walmart (where he was liked and respected) and his car would provide the means for those things. Once Rory left for Yale there was really nothing to tether him to Stars Hollow, so why not leave?

One would certainly hope Jess would develop grander ambitions for his life than those he had towards the end of the third season - as indeed he clearly did. But at that point, for what he seemed to want, that jalopy and work at Walmart made sense to me.

[txhorns79]

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With respect, why shouldn't Jess think working at Walmart and his crappy car were his ticket to getting out of Stars Hollow?

Because the reality of working at Walmart was that it wasn't going to provide him with enough to get out of Stars Hollow.  If you've read anything about the store, it's not a particularly high paying job.  If Jess was on his own, his money was going to get eaten up pretty quickly by living expenses with likely no savings to speak of, leaving him with few options for forward advancement. 

[dustylil]

Yes, I'm quite familiar with Walmart and am well aware of their wage policies and personnel practices. And have long been appalled. But what expenses did Jess have besides food and rent (and the care and feeding of his car) that he would require a decent pay cheque? And if he couldn't make it on a regular weekly Walmart pay cheque, he appeared to be more than willing and capable of picking up extra shifts. Or a part-time job. If he had bad luck and fell ill and couldn't work, then I am reasonably sure that he could return to Stars Hollow and be taken in by his uncle. I doubt that any other family members would take much interest.

As to forward advancement, I doubt very much that was on his mind. I don't recall him indicating any career plans or ambitions he had for himself. He may  be merely treading water working at Walmart, but after the life that he had had, that may not have been such a bad idea. And if you are going to tread water, just after high school without any dependants or responsibilities is a pretty good time to do it. He would be independent, self-supporting, and have time to think and to look around.

[clack]

Perhaps Jess's long-term plan was to work a variety of jobs that would look glamorously blue-collar and manly when listed in the author's bio on the book jacket that he fantasized was in his future. "Born in New York City, Jess has worked as a merchant seaman, construction worker, ambulance driver, and repo man". 

Being a high school dropout rather fit in with this Charles Bukowski-like self-image that he had.

[dustylil]

5 minutes ago, clack said:

"Born in New York City, Jess has worked as a merchant seaman, construction worker, ambulance driver, and repo man

I'm pretty sure most of those jobs would require  at least high school or equivalency :)

[junienmomo]

 The only real problem in Jess' life was the fact that he had to go to school. Job, good girlfriend that he loved, everything else was fine.  No reason to leave. 

 Luke on the other hand should've been feeling pretty happy because he was at the peak of his parenting. He thought just was in school knew that he had a steady job and had a girlfriend who would certainly improving probably had already improved him. Jess had already given up cigarettes for Rory, and seemed to be able to interact with others a little better. 

The self-involved teenager hadn't thought about a book cover blurb. He hadn't even considered Luke's conditions for allowing him to stay, namely that he had to stay in school. He simply didn't care. He had money enough to take care of Rory and have a good time and did not care about the consequences of missing school. He even figured he could talk his way into graduating or at least going to prom. Sad, but that's the way teenagers' brains work sometimes. 

[txhorns79]

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But what expenses did Jess have besides food and rent (and the care and feeding of his car) that he would require a decent pay cheque?

Just off hand, if he was living on his own, he'd need a security deposit for whatever place he was renting, so he'd need a lot of money up front.  He'd have insurance for his car on top of whatever assorted costs he would have in maintaining the car.  He'd have to pay utilities, he'd have to pay for his phone, and so on.  My point being his costs would end up being a lot more than just food, paying rent and gas for the car.      

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The self-involved teenager hadn't thought about a book cover blurb. He hadn't even considered Luke's conditions for allowing him to stay, namely that he had to stay in school. He simply didn't care. He had money enough to take care of Rory and have a good time and did not care about the consequences of missing school. He even figured he could talk his way into graduating or at least going to prom. Sad, but that's the way teenagers' brains work sometimes.     

 

 So much this.  Jess just didn't care.  He had what he needed in the moment, and that was fine for him. 

[readster]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Just off hand, if he was living on his own, he'd need a security deposit for whatever place he was renting, so he'd need a lot of money up front.  He'd have insurance for his car on top of whatever assorted costs he would have in maintaining the car.  He'd have to pay utilities, he'd have to pay for his phone, and so on.  My point being his costs would end up being a lot more than just food, paying rent and gas for the car.      

 So much this.  Jess just didn't care.  He had what he needed in the moment, and that was fine for him. 

How true, it was when he was being told he wouldn't graduate, couldn't go to prom and had to repeat when reality finally hit him. I think he got even a bigger dose when he returned for his POS car and realized not only how much he had screwed up, but after Rory rejected him he realized he needed to shape up. Hence when we saw him with his book store, his book and meeting April and thank Luke. Jess finally realized he could have still gotten there, if he would have cared about what he was doing instead of just: "What makes me happy and who cares." 

[dustylil]

Personally, I  don't think staying in Stars Hollow and repeating his senior year would have done him any good at all. He had no friends, he hated the school, Rory was away in New Haven and he would be there on Luke's sufferance. Inasmuch as millions of single young people at that point in time were able to live and manage on their own, I see no reason why  Jess couldn't. After all, he could shared accommodation with some other fellows. I don't recall him being used to either luxury or privacy.

And from what we saw of him in Season 6, he seemed to be a much more together and impressive individual than Stars Hollow's felonious golden child.

Edited June 2, 2016 by dustylil

[txhorns79]

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Personally, I  don't think staying in Stars Hollow and repeating his senior year would have done him any good at all. He had no friends, he hated the school, Rory was away in New Haven and he would be there on Luke's sufferance.  Inasmuch as millions of single young people at that point in time were able to live and manage on their own, I see no reason why  Jess couldn't. After all, he could shared accommodation with some other fellows. I don't recall him being used to either luxury or privacy.

Are you arguing that Jess made a good decision to reject his uncle's help and run away?  At least in terms of where he was in Season 3 and 4, I can't imagine that Jess was better off with the instability that comes with being a high school dropout with no prospects.  If anything, we saw he was barely hanging on.            

[dustylil]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Are you arguing that Jess made a good decision to reject his uncle's help and run away? 

I would hardly call it running away. Luke told him if he wished to stay in Stars Hollow he had to return to the high school and repeat his year. Jess said no and Luke told him to leave. So he did. Why Luke acted flabbergasted when he spoke to Lorelai about Jess the next day always puzzled me.

And he was not without prospects.  He had a steady  at  job at Walmart, where he was liked and respected. If he didn't  have a job, it would be another matter. Walmart - while few people's idea of a great place to work- at his age it wasn't too bad a place to be. Conversations with fellow employees and supervisors might kindle an interest in  him to do something more with his life. And lest anyone think I am singing Walmart's praises, I am not. I think those kinds of conversations can take place among staffers in any number of medium or large organizations.

And while I am sure this will be among the most unpopular of unpopular of opinions, I wasn't particularly impressed with Luke's help. Unreservedly, it was gracious and kind of him to give the surly little putz a home for a year and  a half. But Luke only viewed things from the prism of his own life experience and lacked the imagination to see that there may have been other equally  valid approaches. Nor did he ever appear willing to call on people who had knowledge of both mundane and sensitive matters outside his own real to advise him so he could help Jess. So yes, I think Luke could have done better

[txhorns79]

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I would hardly call it running away. Luke told him if he wished to stay in Stars Hollow he had to return to the high school and repeat his year. Jess said no and Luke told him to leave. So he did. Why Luke acted flabbergasted when he spoke to Lorelai about Jess the next day always puzzled me.

Jess vanished without a word from the only home he had, and didn't tell anyone where he was going.  That seems like running away to me.  In terms of Luke, I just thought he figured Jess would think about his situation and work something out with him.  He didn't really expect Jess to simply leave in the manner he did.     

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And he was not without prospects. 

 

He was without prospects.  He voluntarily abandoned his job and ran off to California.  I don't recall any suggestion that he ever returned to WalMart whenever he came back from his failed spin off. 

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So yes, I think Luke could have done better

I'm not sure anyone has argued Luke couldn't have done a better job, have they?  He clearly wasn't the perfect parent or guardian.  Of course, the same criticism could be made of nearly every parent, fact or fiction.  I just presumed Luke was doing the best he could in a difficult situation.  I can't really criticize him for that.         

[hippielamb]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Jess vanished without a word from the only home he had, and didn't tell anyone where he was going.  That seems like running away to me.  In terms of Luke, I just thought he figured Jess would think about his situation and work something out with him.  He didn't really expect Jess to simply leave in the manner he did.     

        

My interpretation was that Jess felt like he was being kicked out. Luke said: you have to go. (Which makes his reaction in the next episode so weird. He told Jess to leave and is hurt when he does?) Things with Rory fizzled so there was no reason for him to stay in Stars Hollow. He had just met his dad for the first time in his life and gave it a shot. I am not not a Jess fan by any means but I think he felt unwanted by everyone at this point. 

[junienmomo]

As mentioned by several people, Jess was still very much a hurting teenager when the Rory problems, his father's appearance, non-graduation and Luke's closure on their agreement happened. 

He would have been 18 or very near it when this happened. The expectation from Luke was that he would finish school (embarrassing; imagine how Dean would have rubbed it in), a possible breakup with Rory leaving and Lorelai throwing eye daggers at him every day, and him having to come to terms with letting Luke down. 

A cross-country bus ticket was a couple of hundred dollars, which he would have needed for prom anyway. That and California would be looking pretty good at that moment. 

On Luke's side, I always thought that he worked reasonably with Lorelai on parenting during the Literati relationship, but that Luke was primarily trying to channel his father as a parent, because, honestly, who else was in in his life that he could use as a father role model? 

Finally, in the aborted spinoff, who's to say that Jess wouldn't try to finish high school? 

[marineg]

The whole "Jess did not graduate" storyline seemed weak to me the entire time. First of all, they were obviously trying to get him out of the show for the failed spin-off, so they ruined his relationship with Rory in a couple of episodes, ruined his high school career, and brought in the dead beat dad.

Honestly, in what world would a high school not do anything about a kid who does not show up to school, has a full time job, and simply tells him to do senior year all over again when he shows up for prom tickets. And who does that? Tell a kid not to sell a student prom tickets and instead have him sent to the principal's office? Couldn't they save him the embarrassment and call him to the office? And in what world would they not tell his guardian, or at least have him in the room to talk to the kid? Apart from the time Luke went to the principal's office about the baseballs disappearance the first time Jess lived in SH, he never interacted with the principal. He had to figure out that he was skipping school all on his own. When I was in high school, they called parents when you didn't show up...

I'm not a huge 'Luke as Jess's parent fan' because I don't think that he was a great guardian for him (although he was good for April). Everybody told him he did a great job but I don't think that's true. He knew Jess was a tough kid who was independent and too smart for his own good but he still tried to push and pressure him to have the life that he wanted for him rather than letting him figure out who he was, and support and encouraging him.

[txhorns79]

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Everybody told him he did a great job but I don't think that's true. He knew Jess was a tough kid who was independent and too smart for his own good but he still tried to push and pressure him to have the life that he wanted for him rather than letting him figure out who he was, and support and encouraging him.

I don't know.  I didn't feel like Luke was really pressuring Jess on anything besides graduating high school.

[Smad]

3 hours ago, marineg said:

Honestly, in what world would a high school not do anything about a kid who does not show up to school, has a full time job, and simply tells him to do senior year all over again when he shows up for prom tickets. And who does that? Tell a kid not to sell a student prom tickets and instead have him sent to the principal's office? Couldn't they save him the embarrassment and call him to the office? And in what world would they not tell his guardian, or at least have him in the room to talk to the kid? Apart from the time Luke went to the principal's office about the baseballs disappearance the first time Jess lived in SH, he never interacted with the principal. He had to figure out that he was skipping school all on his own. When I was in high school, they called parents when you didn't show up...

This only happens in ASP land. Which is more often than not very far removed from what we call 'real life'.

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I'm not a huge 'Luke as Jess's parent fan' because I don't think that he was a great guardian for him (although he was good for April). Everybody told him he did a great job but I don't think that's true. He knew Jess was a tough kid who was independent and too smart for his own good but he still tried to push and pressure him to have the life that he wanted for him rather than letting him figure out who he was, and support and encouraging him.

IMO Luke did the best he could under the circumstances. His sister basically dumped Jess on him and Luke's devotion to family meant he would take Jess in. Luke also had no experiences in the parenting department and Jess was about as troubles as they come. So as junienmomo said he probably channeled his father a lot for that (probably because Liz was also a difficult kid) instead of trying to figure out what kind of parent he wanted to be.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Smad

[readster]

Another thing was, Luke was Jess's uncle and not his father. Even if Jimmy was long out of the picture, Luke didn't want to over step on things, but of course that was thrown out the window when Luke didn't want Lorelai to know about April at first and then later not wanting her to be involved becuase she would be more fun. The problem was, Luke was pretty much Jess's father figure and despite the various rewrites of Jess's history, he was there a lot. The problem was, Jess was basically thrown on Luke, and being the devoted family guy took him in not once but twice. The problem was when Jess ran away with Jimmy, Luke realized he didn't do what he should of done and failed him as he told Lorelai in season 3. Of course, I liked Jess's apologizing to Luke in season 4 and then by season 7 Jess finally realized that Luke gave a damn about him, and it was about being "the rebel" that why his life went down hill so fast. However, so much was contrived to get Milo to the spin off that never was and it made Jess not only come off as a moron. But everyone else has to be stupid too from the school principal, to Luke finding out on his own to even the Walmart manager going: "Wait Jess!" "How can you work these many hours?" "You're still in school?" 

  My next problem was when Liz came to Stars Hollow and told Jess about his POS car in the shed. I mean really, she thought it was such a great idea to let Jess know where it was. Instead of: "Good, he didn't want to get the picture that you were trying to help him. Plus, it's a money pit anyhow." "I say chop it up for parts." But of course, we had to see how flakey and stupid Liz was and then she goes: "I didn't think Jess would just show up and try and steal it back." Talk about eye roll there.

[katha]

I always thought that once Jess' life had crashed down on him, getting out of there was probably the best thing for him long-term. The show always did a good job showing how absolutely miserable Jess was about anything relating to Stars Hollow and how much he hated living there, the only exceptions being Luke and Rory. He also resented the school structures. Having to re-do a year with Lorelai and Dean and the rest of the town taunting him, his relationship with Rory probably over, all that anger and misery escalating some more...I don't think that would have ended well.

Instead, apparently he flailed around for a bit trying to get his bearings and figuring out what he wanted to do with his life. Probably with a series of low-paying jobs that allowed him to survive. He was 18/19 at the time, it's not like he's the only young person confused and struggling at that point. Okay, he didn't have the safety net of trust funds or parents/grandparents financing him "finding himself", but since he seemed all right with paying his own way...sure why not. Jess also never seemed like someone who wanted to go the traditional school, college route a la Rory, so I don't see how he lost out on much not finishing high school in Stars Hollow. And there's always the possibility of doing his GED later. He also got away from an environment that was probably pretty toxic for him, namely Stars Hollow, and could start from scratch. Since he never lacked drive or motivation once he was interested in something, it seemed pretty plausible that he'd be capable of writing and small-scale publishing a book and opening a small bookshop/printing press (?) with friends. It's not like he had outrageous success or anything, but he did well for someone in his early 20ies. Being self-employed was always most likely to make Jess happy.

Edited June 3, 2016 by katha

[timimouse]

21 hours ago, dustylil said:

And while I am sure this will be among the most unpopular of unpopular of opinions, I wasn't particularly impressed with Luke's help. Unreservedly, it was gracious and kind of him to give the surly little putz a home for a year and  a half. But Luke only viewed things from the prism of his own life experience and lacked the imagination to see that there may have been other equally  valid approaches. Nor did he ever appear willing to call on people who had knowledge of both mundane and sensitive matters outside his own real to advise him so he could help Jess. So yes, I think Luke could have done better

If this opinion is unpopular, then make room at your table for me. I've never been Jess' biggest fan, but I was even less impressed with how Luke dealt with him. While Lorelai's advice may have been unsolicited, she wasn't wrong. Parenthood is not easy. Most people have 9 months to prepare and even then are still overwhelmed. Yet they also have the opportunity to learn as time goes by. Luke was thrown into it with a very troubled youth. Under normal circumstances, it takes a village. He needed a whole city with Jess, but was too damn proud to admit that. When we meet Jess later with his bookstore etc. and he was thanking Luke for all he did, I found myself rolling my eyes. Yes it was kind of him to take Jess in, but I don't think Luke guided him and contributed positively to his growth. Probably just another adversity to overcome. 

[txhorns79]

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When we meet Jess later with his bookstore etc. and he was thanking Luke for all he did, I found myself rolling my eyes. Yes it was kind of him to take Jess in, but I don't think Luke guided him and contributed positively to his growth. Probably just another adversity to overcome. 

I think that's overly harsh.  I agree that Luke was not prepared to deal with Jess, but I really do think he tried with him and it simply didn't work.  Some of it was contrivance so Jess would have a reason to leave Stars Hollow for California.  However, some of it was that Jess was just too troubled for Luke to handle.  I think he gave Jess stability, but Luke didn't have the wherewithal to basically micromanage Jess in the way Jess needed.  He gave Jess too much freedom when he shouldn't have, and Jess was too far gone when Luke reasserted himself.   

[JayInChicago]

There's also the extremely contrived and bizarre "Rory should 'tutor' him" TMT episode where Luke thought it was an amazing idea for the smitten Rory and the head over heels Jess to play school in the diner. Even the principal suggesting a tutor was off the wall. Jess needed to go to class and do the work which he obviously could easily do, not a human studying with him.

i will say that in this my 8th or something rewatch, it's the first time I noticed that when Rory is describing the accident to someone (perhaps Lorelai in the Richard's new business office party episode) she says *she* wanted Jess to keep driving, but he thought they should stop. She really wasn't as freakishly "good" as portrayed, even in late season 2.

Edited June 4, 2016 by JayInChicago

[dustylil]

2 hours ago, timimouse said:

While Lorelai's advice may have been unsolicited, she wasn't wrong

Given the complicated nature of their friendship I could understand Luke not wanting to go to her as a problem  solver for him. I think he always saw "problem solver" as his prime role in their relationship. 

But she wasn't the only possible source of guidance. Just off the top - there were teachers, coaches, a vice-principal or two and the school principal who undoubtedly had far more knowledge and experience in dealing with bright and troubled adolescents than he ever would. Did he even attempt to maintain a dialogue with them? (I am in no way minimizing their role in the disaster that was Jess' senior year.) But did Luke attend Open Days,  Parent/Teacher meetings, etc. so he had some contact with the staff?  It is not as if Luke was such a great fan of the school when he was a student. Indeed, he hated it. So why would he think Jess who already had a boatload of problems would sail through his time there?

We never saw a town doctor but we did meet two of the town's clergyman whom Luke seemed to like and respect. People in that line of work often have useful advice to offer and can provide direction to other sources on sensitive matters - like dealing with the Jimmy Mariano situation.

He could have asked Lane with whom he had a rapport for her thoughts. Not that she should be any kind of snitch as to Jess' grades or absenteeism. But if he asked her directly how Jess was  getting on, she could have let him know he should dig further.

But  Luke acted as if it was he and only he who could deal with Jess and Jess' problems - even when he  knew he was over his head.  Meanwhile,  there were  any number of people and resources able to help him.

Some have said that Luke likely thought about what his own father might do in any given situation and then did that with Jess. In many respects, it is a good approach to take but perhaps not this time. After all, the late Mr. Danes himself - wonderful  man as he apparently was - only had a 50%  success rate in raising responsible, productive adults.

[txhorns79]

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Just off the top - there were teachers, coaches, a vice-principal or two and the school principal who undoubtedly had far more knowledge and experience in dealing with bright and troubled adolescents than he ever would. Did he even attempt to maintain a dialogue with them? (I am in no way minimizing their role in the disaster that was Jess' senior year.)

I think you are minimizing their role, because otherwise they would clearly be an awful source for advice that no one should ever turn to in a time of crisis.  A school that doesn't even bother to tell someone's guardian that their charge is in danger of having to repeat their senior year is not a place to turn to for guidance on child rearing. 

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He could have asked Lane with whom he had a rapport for her thoughts. Not that she should be any kind of snitch as to Jess' grades or absenteeism. But if he asked her directly how Jess was  getting on, she could have let him know he should dig further.

 

Would Lane have any particular reason to know whether Jess was attending his classes, much less what his grades were?  I didn't recall there being mention of them sharing classes. 

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After all, the late Mr. Danes himself - wonderful  man as he apparently was - only had a 50%  success rate in raising responsible, productive adults.

 

By that logic, Richard and Emily were apparently amongst the best parents on the show because they had a 100% success rate in raising a responsible, productive adult.  Poor Lorelai gets what, a 25%, because her daughter was a felon, but still graduated Yale?

Edited June 4, 2016 by txhorns79

[junienmomo]

3 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

By that logic, Richard and Emily were apparently amongst the best parents on the show because they had a 100% success rate in raising a responsible, productive adult.  Poor Lorelai gets what, a 25%, because her daughter was a felon, but still graduated Yale?

No parent in ASP's world got help. Well-meaning busybodies told others what to do on occasion, but that advice was generally ignored, and thing orient was justified because the situations were different.

25% is a little generous. The myth of Lorelai's famous sacrifices for Rory came pre-series. We saw a mother who frequently interrupted her daughter's studying to the point of Rory yelling at her, who reputedly offered to do the headmaster to get her into Chilton as if she didn't qualify, yet hadn't inquired about or saved for the tuition. From the very first day of Chilton, Mom behaved in ways that embarrassed her daughter and would in a typical real private upscale school would have resulted in Rory being uninvited for the next year. With respect to university, Mom did very similar things, the most egregious of which was try to prevent her from attending Yale altogether, followed by yet again an inability to pay, but didn't even consider a loan, which would have been the logical answer, one used by millions of college students.

The resulting Rory was a liar, a thief, a felon, a cheater/home wrecker who took up with the ex-husband publicly after the breakup. She couldn't write that well, and was better known for writing snappily cruel reviews than anything else. She was not prepared either socially or academically for the stresses of college life. When given the chance, she accepted the role of entitled rich girl, using her grandparents' money as a way to make her life comfortable. Graduating from Yale seems almost to have been a fluke, and if it hadn't been for Emily's overbearing behavior, Rory might never have even finished Yale. It certainly wasn't due to Lorelai's tough love failure.

Compare that to Luke being the sucker thrown into Liz's parenting fiasco at the last second of Jess' childhood? Please. His parenting skills were a blip on the radar compared to ASP's portrayals of mothering.

[AllyB]

Having recently completed my rewatch I do have to marvel at Rory feeling she was a shoe in for the Ruston (sp?) Fellowship. Sure she rose to be the editor of one of the most prestigious college newspapers in the country. But she had a felony on her record which coincided with a long absence from school. Surely she had to know that a blemish like that on her resume would severely decrease her chances.

[Sweet Tee]

Luke had no experience parenting and he didn't even get to start with a blank slate infant.  He was dealing with a teenager.  Teens can be difficult no matter what their circumstances are.  It's just a big transition period in their lives and they're trying to navigate through it.  But Jess was already extremely troubled.  I don't think anything Luke could have done would have changed that or changed Jess' attitude.  I don't think it's at all unreasonable to want a child to at least finish high school.  I applaud Jess for getting himself together and turning his life around.  I really do.  But, I don't think it's fair to blame Luke for all that went wrong during his time in SH.  

[dustylil]

9 hours ago, Sweet Tee said:

 But, I don't think it's fair to blame Luke for all that went wrong during his time in SH.  

I don't think anybody is. Jess had substantive problems long before he arrived in Stars Hollow and continued to do while he was there. Luke wasn't a miracle worker. No one expected him to be. What I and others have commented on was Luke's unwillingness to seek help on issues that were far beyond his own experience and comfort level.

And yes, wanting Jess to finish high school was a perfectly reasonable expectation for Luke to have for his nephew. But given Jess' issues and the boy's lack of  friends and  a support system within the community, was attending  a traditional high school the best way of accomplishing it?

I think Luke provided Jess with a role model of a responsible, productive and good hearted male. Given Jess life experience, that was likely quite novel and it was a very good thing for Jess  to have.

Edited June 4, 2016 by dustylil

[junienmomo]

Luke readily listened to and acted on advice from others. 

Speaking with the principal, Jess' thick folder was on the desk. The principal had a list of performance issues that he shared with Luke, so the principal was clearly connected with his staff and prepared for the meeting. He suggested the tutor and Luke brought in the smartest, highest achieving person he knew. 

He took Lorelai's advice a couple of times at least in parenting Rory and Jess through their relationship; the kid code and the amount of time they were allowed to be alone in the apartment come quickly to mind. In canon, Lorelai never shared advice about how she managed Rory's and Jess' relationship, given that they had the crap shack completely available to them while Lorelai was working.

I'll leave it to those interested to assess how much advice Lorelai solicited and acted on after Rory couldn't hack a heavier course load or dropped out of school. 

[dustylil]

18 hours ago, junienmomo said:

The resulting Rory was a liar, a thief, a felon, a cheater/home wrecker who took up with the ex-husband publicly after the breakup

And  this was all on Lorelai? Rory bore no responsibility for her own conduct? If we are taking that route,  how about blaming - at least in part - the senior Gilmores who thought Rory could do no wrong (and appeared to convince her of that as well)  and that she was entitled to take whatever she wanted? Or what of Mr. and Mrs. Forrester who raised an adulterous son?

 

3 hours ago, junienmomo said:

how much advice Lorelai solicited and acted on after Rory couldn't hack a heavier course load or dropped out of school

Lorelai didn't know of the dropped freshman course. Rory couldn't get hold of her mother and told Dean about the matter after it was a done deal. Rory did make an effort to discuss the academic problem with her mother. I don't believe Jess was in the habit of speaking  to Luke about school problems - if we are keeping score here :)

Lorelai did go to Richard and Emily for support after Rory dropped out of Yale. After agreeing to assist her in any plans to get Rory back on track, they changed their minds -  after Richard listened to Rory's woeful, rather economical with the truth tale.  Once they supported Rory's decision to drop out and provided her with cushy digs and minimal responsibilities, I am not sure what else  Lorelai could then have done on a practical level. Rory's contemptuous attitude towards Lorelai's opinions on college-related matters was quite clear.        

3 hours ago, junienmomo said:

how she managed Rory's and Jess' relationship, given that they had the crap shack completely available to them while Lorelai was working

Jess may not have been attending school but Rory we know was. And she had extra-curricular activities. I am not sure how much time they had together regardless of the house being available to them, Lorelai working or not.        

                                                                    ..........................................

There has been a discussion in the Season 3  Rewatch  thread concerning the awfulness of Sherry, in particular her views and behaviour regarding maternity and children. And certainly she earns a black mark from most people for her decision to move to Paris without her child. However,  we know little of  the details - was it  a marital breakdown and it was thought best Gigi to keep the toddler in her known and comfortable surroundings, did Sherry pay child support, was her behaviour any worse than that of a man in a comparable situation, etc.?

For me though, I found Sookie's conduct concerning pregnancy and babies to be overall far more objectionable  in both  Seasons 4 and  5. Maintaining a friendship with her would be difficult enough, being in a business partnership would be a nightmare.

[hippielamb]

On 6/3/2016 at 3:04 PM, readster said:

 My next problem was when Liz came to Stars Hollow and told Jess about his POS car in the shed. I mean really, she thought it was such a great idea to let Jess know where it was. Instead of: "Good, he didn't want to get the picture that you were trying to help him. Plus, it's a money pit anyhow." "I say chop it up for parts." But of course, we had to see how flakey and stupid Liz was and then she goes: "I didn't think Jess would just show up and try and steal it back." Talk about eye roll there.

Well, I like Liz. I think she told Jess about the car to share info with him and be a friend. It was his car. I am surprised he came all that way for a clunker and paid more money to fix it. 

 

19 hours ago, junienmomo said:

25% is a little generous. The myth of Lorelai's famous sacrifices for Rory came pre-series. We saw a mother who frequently interrupted her daughter's studying to the point of Rory yelling at her, who reputedly offered to do the headmaster to get her into Chilton as if she didn't qualify, yet hadn't inquired about or saved for the tuition. From the very first day of Chilton, Mom behaved in ways that embarrassed her daughter and would in a typical real private upscale school would have resulted in Rory being uninvited for the next year. With respect to university, Mom did very similar things, the most egregious of which was try to prevent her from attending Yale altogether, followed by yet again an inability to pay, but didn't even consider a loan, which would have been the logical answer, one used by millions of college students.

The resulting Rory was a liar, a thief, a felon, a cheater/home wrecker who took up with the ex-husband publicly after the breakup. She couldn't write that well, and was better known for writing snappily cruel reviews than anything else. She was not prepared either socially or academically for the stresses of college life. When given the chance, she accepted the role of entitled rich girl, using her grandparents' money as a way to make her life comfortable. Graduating from Yale seems almost to have been a fluke, and if it hadn't been for Emily's overbearing behavior, Rory might never have even finished Yale. It certainly wasn't due to Lorelai's tough love failure.

Compare that to Luke being the sucker thrown into Liz's parenting fiasco at the last second of Jess' childhood? Please. His parenting skills were a blip on the radar compared to ASP's portrayals of mothering.

Interrupting Rory's studying seemed to be done to give Rory some fun. She is super serious about books and learning but life is more than that. When she needed help, Lorelai stayed up and quizzed her. The offer to do the headmaster was a joke. The only embarrassing things I think Lorelai did at Chilton were wearing cut-offs the first day (where Rory insisted she go inside. Dude, seriously? She knew what Lorelai was wearing.), and kissing Max. He was the one who was chided not Lorelai since he was technically at work. When Lorelai saw that Rory wanted to go to Yale and it wasn't just a Richard & Emily thing, she encouraged Rory to go. I agree about the tuiton but I think Lorelai assumed (like many other parents do) that Rory would qualify for financial aid. If the plot didn't call for the Gilmores to loan money again, we wouldn't have the $75,000 cheque and Rory losing her financial aid. 

I don't have a problem with Rory sleeping with Dean. It made sense for how much she was struggling.  I thought it was strange how they portrayed Rory's sexuality on this show. She was 19 and Amy apparently wanted to keep her a virgin forever. It stretches credulity. It's fine if we were given a reason for why she wanted to remain chaste, like we did with Lane but that never happened. I kinda like season 4 & 5 Rory. She's a brat to everyone but it's believable. She is finally acting like a regular teen and not a perfect angel. Stealing a yacht seemed out of character but that's on Rory not Lorelai. As well as the dropping out thing, Rory was an adult and responsible for her own poor choices. 
 

[txhorns79]

Quote

After all, the late Mr. Danes himself - wonderful  man as he apparently was - only had a 50%  success rate in raising responsible, productive adults.

Quote

And  this was all on Lorelai?  Rory bore no responsibility for her own conduct?

It's confusing me how one can argue one moment that Mr. Danes apparently is to blame for the problems Liz had as an adult, while also asking why Lorelai is being blamed for Rory's conduct, when Rory should be the one being held responsible. 

Quote

 

However,  we know little of  the details - was it  a marital breakdown and it was thought best Gigi to keep the toddler in her known and comfortable surroundings, did Sherry pay child support, was her behaviour any worse than that of a man in a comparable situation, etc.?

 

Given the situation was presented as Sherry unilaterally deciding to leave, and no one ever challenged that version of events, I'm not quite certain what are you are trying to argue.  Why would it matter how her behavior compares to a man in a similar situation?  She's a 30-something woman who abandoned her toddler and fled the country.  Short of Sherry saying grievous harm was going to come to someone unless she did what she did, there's really no coming back f

Quote

 

rom that.     

The only embarrassing things I think Lorelai did at Chilton were wearing cut-offs the first day (where Rory insisted she go inside. Dude, seriously? She knew what Lorelai was wearing.), and kissing Max.

 

Didn't she also call Charleston "Il Duce" to his face?  That's probably not the best thing to do if you want your kid to continue attending the school.

Edited June 5, 2016 by txhorns79

[AllyB]

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

It's confusing me how one can argue one moment that Mr. Danes apparently is to blame for the problems Liz had as an adult, while also asking why Lorelai is being blamed for Rory's conduct, when Rory should be the one being held responsible. 

Of course the buck stops with an adult when it comes to who is responsible for their actions. But realistically how that adult was raised has an enormous impact on the adult they become. Rory was raised to have a sense of entitlement and used to constant praise. So when Mitchum told her she didn't have 'it' she reacted with anger and petulance, made a horrible decision and then deflated completely. If she had been given a more realistic grounding in her expectations about herself, she'd probably have had a good cry in the toilet after Mitchum's assessment of her and then talked to someone about what he said and maybe even worked out if there was any merit in his comments and learned from them. For example, she could have taken on board how she didn't contribute to the meeting they'd had just before their talk and decide to be more forward in future. It wasn't Lorelai's decision to steal a boat and drop out, but how she raised Rory made certain reactions and actions feel more natural for her.

[junienmomo]

12 hours ago, dustylil said:

(Snip)

Lorelai did go to Richard and Emily for support after Rory dropped out of Yale. After agreeing to assist her in any plans to get Rory back on track, they changed their minds -  after Richard listened to Rory's woeful, rather economical with the truth tale.  Once they supported Rory's decision to drop out and provided her with cushy digs and minimal responsibilities, I am not sure what else  Lorelai could then have done on a practical level. Rory's contemptuous attitude towards Lorelai's opinions on college-related matters was quite clear.     

                                                                    ..........................................

(Snip)

For me though, I found Sookie's conduct concerning pregnancy and babies to be overall far more objectionable  in both  Seasons 4 and  5. Maintaining a friendship with her would be difficult enough, being in a business partnership would be a nightmare.

Re: Emily and Richard's bailing on Lorelai, she exited the situation like the petulant child she often was when her parents did something despicable. The problem this time was, this was Rory, and she was Rory's mother, the one with the residual parental authority (residual, because Rory was an adult). Yet she chose to bail back, getting revenge on her parents' betrayal rather than find another path in, as both Luke and Paris tried to discuss. Too bad she didn't call Mia, I can imagine Mia would have reminded her about the change in effectiveness of the mother card once the child turns eighteen. 

 

Totally agree on the Sookie problem. It was absolutely miserable being around her, and I can't begin to imagine how much she pushed the dragonfly over budget during the renovation. Her excuse was pathetic, she was the artiste, she can't consider the business side. 

[junienmomo]

The Mr. Danes character is interesting. I simply thought of him as a generation older Lukeish type, blue collar, a rougher diamond in the rough than Luke. I don't see him so much as "wonderful" as I see him as a blue collar man of his time, with all the associated stereotypes like being on the negative side of bewildered about feminism, not really into the notion that college was a must, and so on.  

[txhorns79]

Quote

Of course the buck stops with an adult when it comes to who is responsible for their actions. But realistically how that adult was raised has an enormous impact on the adult they become. 

I agree to an extent.  I viewed Rory's reaction as more Rory being immature.  I just was noting that the commenter previously had been arguing what appeared to be the opposite of what they were claiming now. 

Quote

Totally agree on the Sookie problem. It was absolutely miserable being around her, and I can't begin to imagine how much she pushed the dragonfly over budget during the renovation. Her excuse was pathetic, she was the artiste, she can't consider the business side. 

Sookie's behavior was obnoxious.  I did kind of wonder whether she and Lorelai had ever sat down to discuss what their roles would be vis a vis the Dragonfly during the period before the place opened.

[Kohola3]

Let's face it, Sookie's persona changed to fit whatever story line  ASP had in mind that day.  Just like everyone other regular with the possible exception of Lorelai who remained a fast-talking, coffee-slugging ditz for the whole run.  I don't love or hate any of them based on behavior.  That was at the whim of the writer.

[shron17]

1 hour ago, junienmomo said:

Re: Emily and Richard's bailing on Lorelai, she exited the situation like the petulant child she often was when her parents did something despicable. The problem this time was, this was Rory, and she was Rory's mother, the one with the residual parental authority (residual, because Rory was an adult). Yet she chose to bail back, getting revenge on her parents' betrayal rather than find another path in, as both Luke and Paris tried to discuss. Too bad she didn't call Mia, I can im heragine Mia would have reminded her about the change in effectiveness of the mother card once the child turns eighteen. 

I disagree.  Yes, this was about Rory but Rory's choices effectively blocked Lorelai from speaking to her unless she went through her parents.  Yes, Rory was an adult and had a perfect right to go to her grandparents and move into their pool house without her mom's permission.  But in my opinion, she should have called her mom and let her know about that decision personally.  Rory wouldn't  even come out  when she saw Lorelai waiting outside, and then let Emily handle getting her clothes back.  I don't have a problem with Lorelai for not showing up at court when Rory had so effectively cut her out of her life.  If she wanted her mom to be there all she had to do was call and ask her.  Even though I'll never understand why Luke didn't encourage Rory to go see Lorelai when she showed up at the diner, it's not like Rory didn't know where to find her.  She even changed her phone number without bothering to email/voicemail the new number to her mom..

Edited June 5, 2016 by shron17

[Smad]

13 hours ago, dustylil said:

For me though, I found Sookie's conduct concerning pregnancy and babies to be overall far more objectionable  in both  Seasons 4 and  5. Maintaining a friendship with her would be difficult enough, being in a business partnership would be a nightmare.

 

48 minutes ago, junienmomo said:

Totally agree on the Sookie problem. It was absolutely miserable being around her, and I can't begin to imagine how much she pushed the dragonfly over budget during the renovation. Her excuse was pathetic, she was the artiste, she can't consider the business side. 

Sookie's behavior is still baffling to me to this day. First she makes such a fuss about the right sink and needing to ok it herself and then she doesn't even show up to do it. And I could not believe that she would use the baby excuse as to why she wasn't there when talking to Lorelai 'I had to raise my child alone while working' Gilmore. Sookie had a husband, giant extended family not to mention an alarm clock yet she couldn't be there for one appointment? Extra costs for them for having to ship the sink again.

When they were low on money for the DF and Lorelai asked if Jackson could chip in I was confused. So Sookie and Jackson are married, yet they have seperate 'money'? Even more baffling was that Jackson saw it fit to spend money on all new farm equipment while his wife was a partner in getting a new business off the ground, which always leads to more costs than predicted. What is going on here?

And then of course there is Sookie being so anal about doing all the dishes that her staff apparently have no clue what to do when she is put on bed rest because of her second pregnancy. For one thing pregnancy is not the only thing that could take Sookie out of comission. People get sick from time to time (or their children do) and then what? They would have to hire an actual qualified chef because the DF kitchen staff only knows how to chop ingredients but not how to do the main dishes. Extra costs again. Or that Sookie didn't trust anyone to do it right so she didn't even bother getting a replacement (either in house or applications) for when she was put on bed rest so they would have no one to do the meals. It's not good for the DF reputation when they can't serve their guests anything to eat. Which would again harm and cost the business.

And then when Lorelai has to call on Luke, who has his own damn business, to save them she and her busband do nothing but harrass him.

I have to say though that S7 Sookie was a welcome change from what ASP had turned her into. But then I can say that about a lot of the characters in S7. Of course there are exceptions to that.

[Smad]

17 minutes ago, shron17 said:

I disagree.  Yes, this was about Rory but Rory's choices effectively blocked Lorelai from speaking to her unless she went through her parents.  Yes, Rory was an adult and had a perfect right to go to her grandparents and move into their pool house without her mom's permission.  But in my opinion, she should have called her mom and let her know about that decision personally.  Rory wouldn't  even come out  when she saw Lorelai waiting outside, and then let Emily handle getting her clothes back.  I don't have a problem with Lorelai for not showing up at court when Rory had so effectively cut her out of her life.  If she wanted her mom to be there all she had to do was call and ask her.  Even though I'll never understand why Luke didn't encourage Rory to go see Lorelai when she showed up at the diner, it's not like Rory didn't know where to find her.  She even changed her phone number without bothering to email/voicemail the new number to her mom..

It's eerie sometimes how much Rory can be like Christopher. Kind of makes you wonder about genetics. Rory has been pointing out to her mother that she is an 'adult' now ever since she slept with married Dean. But part of being an adult is handling your choices and the consequences like an, you know, adult. Instead of dealing with the Dean mess she ran away to Europe. One person tells her she doesn't have it and she commits a felony. Then she drops out of college instead of just changing majors. She tells her grandpa some half baked truth and turns on the tears so that her grandparents take her in and then she completely cuts off her mother. She is upset that she is not up to date on the changes in Lorelai's life (the engagement) when she had changed her number and was completely unrechable for Lorelai except through the elder Gilmores. Did Rory really think Lorelai would tell her parents 'hey I'm engaged to Luke can you please relay that to Rory'? She doesn't even have the backbone to go to the CS and pick her stuff up instead she sends her grandma to do it. And she honestly expected her mother to be there for her court date when she hadn't even asked her to be there (Richard let Lorelai know about that)?

Boy does all of this sound very Christopher-y.

I'm not saying Lorelai is completely blameless but Rory was so much worse in this whole mess.

[Leonana]

5 hours ago, AllyB said:

Of course the buck stops with an adult when it comes to who is responsible for their actions. But realistically how that adult was raised has an enormous impact on the adult they become. Rory was raised to have a sense of entitlement and used to constant praise. So when Mitchum told her she didn't have 'it' she reacted with anger and petulance, made a horrible decision and then deflated completely. If she had been given a more realistic grounding in her expectations about herself, she'd probably have had a good cry in the toilet after Mitchum's assessment of her and then talked to someone about what he said and maybe even worked out if there was any merit in his comments and learned from them. For example, she could have taken on board how she didn't contribute to the meeting they'd had just before their talk and decide to be more forward in future. It wasn't Lorelai's decision to steal a boat and drop out, but how she raised Rory made certain reactions and actions feel more natural for her.

According to the latest study I read, not really. Apparently, it's 60% genetics, 40% environment, with parents being less than 20% of environment. Although, I'm no expert on the subject!

I suppose in the context of the show, that's how you can get a Liz and a Luke with the same parenting.

[clack]

ASP didn't know, really know, all her own characters, Luke and Sookie being the most blatant examples.

With Sookie, it's a matter of tone. She functions as comic relief, as does Kirk, for instance, but unlike Kirk she also has a dramatic function. Her characterization shouldn't bounce around, varying according to whatever comedic situation ASP wanted to place her in. She shouldn't be, one moment, a cartoon figure -- silly, ridiculous, doing and saying things that no actual person would do or say -- and then, in the next episode or even scene, have her thrust into a dramatic situation where we are supposed to take her dilemma seriously.

That is lazy writing -- going for the easy joke at the expense of a coherent, consistent characterization. You can still be funny in character.

Edited June 5, 2016 by clack

[amensisterfriend]

Random general UO: Overall, I can't honestly claim this show is all that good. In many ways it's still and always will be my personal favorite of all time, but it's really a show of individually stellar lines, scenes, and moments rather than a generally great show with consistent characterization, tight plots (or sometimes any plots, haha), smooth pacing, well-executed themes, etc. And the less said about the show's depiction of romantic relationships, the better ;) I've realized that the key to maintaining my love for the show is to just focus on those great individual moments and fanwank liberally along the way rather than trying to make sense of the overall plots and (often maddening and wildly over the top, inconsistent) characterizations, because therein lies madness. (All just my opinion---obviously!) 

The more I rewatch, the more I think ALL of Rory's love interests/relationships were actually pretty terrible, and this is coming from someone who sees major chemistry and connection between Rory/Jess. 

You guys, I LOVE Digger. He's such a smart, amusing mess in such a perfectly GG-esque way, and while I get that he may not have much romantic/physical chemistry with Lorelai, I totally wish they'd found some excuse to keep him around for longer even if it wasn't as a love interest. And while I get that it's 'just business' or whatever and that Richard had to look out for his own interests, I can't help but think that what he did to Jason at the end of S4 is pretty terrible. I'm actually not sure I ever like Richard less than I do at the end of S4. 

Doyle annoys me. I wish he didn't, and I want to love Paris/Doyle, but I just don't really enjoy their scenes. 

I really like Brian and Gil as individual characters, but somehow I dislike Hep Alien scenes almost as much as I dislike Life and Death Brigade scenes. And that's saying A LOT :) 

[junienmomo]

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Let's face it, Sookie's persona changed to fit whatever story line  ASP had in mind that day.  Just like everyone other regular with the possible exception of Lorelai who remained a fast-talking, coffee-slugging ditz for the whole run.  I don't love or hate any of them based on behavior.  That was at the whim of the writer.

Kohola's and Clack's responses are the reasons I don't go too deeply into analysis of season six. Lorelai, Rory and Luke have the most monstrous and illogical character changes in character in this season. 

That said, there's not much for a parent like Lorelai to do except try to keep some tenuous relationship with the straying adult child. Cutting her off completely was the antithesis of the Lorelai I knew from earlier seasons. Analogous situations existed for Rory cutting her mother off and Luke cutting Lorelai off from April. Cutting someone off generally tells them that the other person has given up on them, which IRL tends to result in an even longer separation. 

Now I'm pondering something I can't recall. What reason did Rory give for going back to Lorelai? I remember the rejection of Emily, and staying with Lane, but I don't remember the reason for the last step.

[dustylil]

Folks, I was not suggesting that Mr. Danes  - a widower with his own health problems - was to blame for the mess that was Liz. Simply that if Luke was looking for parenting methods to deal with Jess, he should have remembered that while his Dad's methods worked with him, they did not succeed with Liz.  And he should have used  other approaches. Of course, given what a screw-up Liz was until well into her thirties, it is difficult to figure out what would have worked with her - if anything :)

4 hours ago, junienmomo said:

I simply thought of him as a generation older Lukeish type, blue collar, a rougher diamond in the rough than Luke. I don't see him so much as "wonderful" as I see him as a blue collar man of his time

Luke's father was a business owner on the main street of Stars Hollow and involved in the community. I didn't see him as anymore blue collar than I did Andrew or Taylor. And given that others in the community spoke well of him and he was revered by his taciturn son, I thought "wonderful" was a reasonably apt descriptor.

1 hour ago, amensisterfriend said:

I totally wish they'd found some excuse to keep him around for longer even if it wasn't as a love interest.And while I get that it's 'just business' or whatever and that Richard had to look out for his own interests, I can't help but think that what he did to Jason at the end of S4 is pretty terrible. I'm actually not sure I ever like Richard less than I do at the end of S4. 

I found Jason amusing as well. But why should he expect any better, given how he treated his own father? That he didn't foresee some form of revenge on the part of Floyd made me doubt his acumen. That said, I did wonder what Richard's reputation was like in the Hartford business community. He left the Stiles firm on not the best of terms when he was close to retirement  and was embroiled in a "poaching" dispute a few years later, which included willingly throwing his partner under a bus.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I found Jason amusing as well. But why should he expect any better, given how he treated his own father?

What horrible things did Jason do to his father?

Besides Richard was Jason's business partner, not his daddy.    

[shron17]

32 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

What horrible things did Jason do to his father?

Maybe not so horrible, in terms of business, but I agree Jason wasn't very bright to think Floyd wouldn't use the influence he'd earned over the years to inflict his own revenge. The way I see it, Richard got caught in the crossfire between father and son and went with the party that offered him the most benefit.  No crime in that.

Quote

JASON: Because I want to do something on my own. I want to work someplace that hasn't known me since I was six. I'd like to get through an entire day without being called Digger. And I really, really want to piss off my dad.
RICHARD: You what?
JASON: Can you imagine his face? No, really, take a moment. Picture it. I walk into his office, he's sitting in his enormous red-leather chair, and I say, "Dad, I am leaving. I am taking all of my high-paying clients with me, and I am getting into business with Richard Gilmore, the man you forced out to make room for me." Can you see that face

Edited June 5, 2016 by shron17

[Kohola3]

Quote

The way I see it, Richard got caught in the crossfire between father and son and went with the party that offered him the most benefit.  No crime in that.

No crime, but I admit to being shocked and then disliking Richard intensely for that cold-hearted, self-serving decision.  He was giving both Digger AND his daughter the big FU.

[shron17]

16 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

No crime, but I admit to being shocked and then disliking Richard intensely for that cold-hearted, self-serving decision.  He was giving both Digger AND his daughter the big FU.

But it's okay for Jason to do it to his dad, and involve Richard to piss him off more?  Richard was doing okay on his own before Jason came to him for help.  He needed someone experienced like Richard to make his revenge company a success.  As for Lorelai, maybe she should have thought a little more about secretly dating her dad's business partner who was living the lifestyle she claimed to hate.  I imagine Floyd telling them their daughter was dating his son felt like the big FU to both Richard and Emily.

Edited June 5, 2016 by shron17

[Kohola3]

Jason and his father had issues that precipitated Jason contacting Richard.  Richard was as eager to screw Floyd as Jason was.  Richard could have said no.  At that point, no other family members were involved.

But then Richard turned around and alienated his only daughter over a business deal to save his own neck without any thought or care of how it would affect her.  Even Emily, who certainly had a mountain of issues with Lorelai, reacted to her husband's actions with disbelief and left because of them.