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Manson Family Media

shapeshifter

By shapeshifter
in Aquarius [V]

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Abmis

Abmis

(edited)

Am I a total weirdo that I think that item should be in museum or something?  They have the Unabomber's actual cabin at the Newseum in DC, so I guess not that weird.

 Whoops.  Responded to wrong post.  Sorry.

Edited by Abmis
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Abmis

Abmis

I have read only the beginning of Helter Skelter that describes how the bodies were found, but I think I will never feel not scared again. Should I keep reading? Is it just page after page of terror? I sure as hell am not sleeping tonight!

Keep reading but be prepared to be scared.  I’ll never forget the first time I read it.  I was in high school when the book came out and I was taking a “sick” day from school. My older brother was reading it and left his copy on the coffee table.  I picked it up and started reading and I was instantly terrified.  I got up and made sure the doors were all locked, then I pulled all the shades and I made the family dog stay next to me all day.    I was sure that Charles Manson knew I was reading the book and was going to come get me.  I feel the same way every time I reread it.

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AndreaK1041

AndreaK1041

Ha, thanks. I'm getting through it, having instituted a "no Helter Skelter after 8pm" rule. I need to hurry up though, because since Bugliosi died just after I checked it out, there's now a wait list for it!

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

That's how I felt about Stephen King's book "It" -- no reading in the evening. It's too fricking creepy! In fact, I used to have to turn it over so I wouldn't see the cover art which creeped me out too. (LOL.)

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merylinkid

merylinkid

Remember, but for the Supreme Court ruling that the death penalty as applied at the time violated the 8th Amendment, Manson and his followers would be dead by now.   There was none of this 30 years of appeals stuff back then.    Some people deserve the death penalty.    Instead they have gone on to wrtie books, and continue to attract followers.    When Susan Atkins was asking for compassionate release a lot of Manson groupies were attacking Sharon Tate's sister for opposing it.   Saying she was just doing it for attention and didn't really care about her sister's legacy.    Yeah, pretty sure she would rather have been spending time with her sister than attending yet another parole hearing of her sister's killers.

 

I did read Susan Atkins book and thought it was great she found god -- in prison.   But never thought she should get out.   None of them should.  

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helenamonster

helenamonster

(edited)

Perhaps I'm just a bitter cynic, but I roll my eyes hard at people convicted of brutal crimes like the Tate-LaBianca murders who then go on to "find God" in prison. Yeah, how convenient that there's a religious loophole that allows you to be forgiven of all your sins and lets you live the rest of your miserable life believing you'll go to heaven. This doesn't even really have anything to do with my own personal religious beliefs, just that these people are able to feel absolved of what they've done. God may have forgiven you, but I haven't.

Edited by helenamonster
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ShadowHunter

ShadowHunter

(edited)

Lifetime is going to make a movie about the Manson girls. It will be titled Manson's Lost Girls. It will follow the story of Linda Kasabian as she meets Charlie and the rest of the family.

Edited by ShadowHunter
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miles2go

miles2go

Lifetime is going to make a movie about the Manson girls. It will be titled Manson's Lost Girls. It will follow the story of Linda Kasabian as she meets Charlie and the rest of the family.

I'd be interested if it wasn't Lifetime.

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

 

I'd be interested if it wasn't Lifetime.

 

I know. I get this creepy feeling that they'd turn it into a story about how this "poor woman" got turned astray by Manson. Um... these women slaughtered people in his name. They had no mercy whatsoever. This is not something to turn into a sympathy story for women.

 

I mean, I hope they wouldn't do it that way, but... it's Lifetime. That network is the queen of Victimized Woman Mini-Movies.  *sigh*

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miles2go

miles2go

Linda Kasabian -- if they do focus on her --  didn't actually do any of the murders, although she did participate in the creepy crawls and thefts. She was the chief witness for the prosecution. For the other Manson followers, I have little sympathy.

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helenamonster

helenamonster

It's been years since I've seen it, but I thought the 2004 Helter Skelter was pretty sympathetic to Kasabian, and she definitely felt like the main character of that movie, not Manson. I mean, I can see how a filmmaker could fall into that trap. She joined the Family pretty late in the game, had a young daughter, didn't actually kill anyone, and ended up flipping and being the prosecution's star witness...but she still stood around and did jack shit while innocent people were murdered.

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miles2go

miles2go

I don't think Kasabian was around at this time (1967).  Although, from what I've seen so far, Emma has some doubts about Charley and the gang.  Very curious to see what they'll do with her character.

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helenamonster

helenamonster

A new book is coming out that claims that Manson isn't guilty.

 

http://jezebel.com/charles-manson-is-definitely-guilty-but-what-if-he-isn-1716615402

 

Interesting how these people decided to publish a book attacking the theory that defined Bugliosi's life and career just after Bugliosi passed away and is no longer around to defend himself. We could pretend it was a coincidence, or we could be rational adults and call bullshit.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

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A new book is coming out that claims that Manson isn't guilty.

 

http://jezebel.com/charles-manson-is-definitely-guilty-but-what-if-he-isn-1716615402

“At times he’s completely incoherent,” Simone said. “Other times, he’s articulate and made a lot of sense . . . I am sure he is using illegal narcotics.”

I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that an 80-year-old guy who took a lot of drugs in his youth and likely suffered blows to the head during a violent life would have at least some dementia, and blaming his incoherency entirely on narcotics casts doubt on the credibility of the authors. Those same authors presuming that his medications are obtained illegally speaks further to the authors likely being conspiracy nuts. So, if the book is based on Manson's current ramblings as interpreted by those authors, it should be considered a work of fiction based on fact--like the show Aquarius, but with Manson cast as the *shudder* protagonist, instead of Duchovny's Hodiak.
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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

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(edited)

Because of week ratings on Thursday, Aquarius and the already canceled Hannibal are being moved to Saturday night from 9pm to 11pm. That's not a good sign for (the already renewed for Season 2) Aquarius. I hope NBC doesn't change its mind.

I would hope that it would just make them re-think the failed experiment of releasing all at once online while still airing the episodes at prime time. It was worth a shot, but it didn't work--I guess. I don't know if they made beaucoup bucks off of ad placement with online eyeballs. But I have little faith in scheduling monkeys. Friday night would've been better than Saturday, IMO.

Here's a good article on the Saturday move and the show scheduling in general:

adweek.com/news/television/nbc-says-it-will-renew-aquarius-despite-banishing-show-saturdays-165866

Edited by shapeshifter
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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

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Some real life Manson Family news to chew on before the second season.

 

Leslie Van Houten has been recommended for parole.

Interesting interview with my "famous" reporter cousin (recently retired, I'v never actually met her even though she's my father's sister's kid, but my journalist daughter knows her): kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/press-play-with-madeleine-brand/california-women-in-office-girls-and-sex-and-a-manson-family-check-in#seg-should-leslie-van-houten-go-free
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reggiejax

reggiejax

(edited)

There must be something in the air, as there is some more real life Manson Family news.

Jane Doe 59 identified after 47 years.

Jane Doe 59 was a young woman who was found murdered just off of Mulholland Drive back in November 1969. As the Manson family case got more notorious, authorities naturally tried to see if any unsolved case might be the work of the Family. Jane Doe 59 was one of the first of such cases. Though unidentified (until now), the woman was long believed to be a teenage runaway, of the type that Manson attracted. The manner in which she was murdered (stabbed 150 times), also led the police to think there was a connection.

Truth is, this has always been mere speculation. She could have run afoul of the Family, but there is no reason to believe that is any more true than if she ran into some other murdering scumbag. Hopefully this identification leads to the truth, one way or another.

One additional note, Manson himself could not have killed her. He was already locked up when this woman was murdered in November 1969. Then again, we all know Manson didn't have the balls to do his own dirty work, but rather was big on delegating, so that shouldn't stop the authorities from delving deeper.

Edited by reggiejax
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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

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16 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Canceled by NBC.  Getting dumped to Saturdays was an obvious sign that it's life was short on this network.

Sorry it was canceled, but thanks for the post — better to know than not know. I still wonder if the Manson story had been more of a sub–plot if the show would have done better — also if it had aired in the fall, or at least the spring.

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dubbel zout

dubbel zout

I don't think the scheduling was the problem, though of course being dumped to Saturdays and fast-tracked to make room for the Olympics didn't help. I think making the Manson story so prominent was the biggest problem. It's too well-known of an event to add fictionalized elements, IMO. Especially since the show tried not to be about how the Manson case was solved. The show was trying to have it both ways as far as that goes. 

The Manson story should have been background to anchor the period. Most of the stuff with Ken and his wife could have happened anyway—Emma could still have been a dropout who lived in a commune, it didn't have to be Manson's. The LAPD stuff with Charmain wouldn't need changing, and Shafe and his problems could stay, too. If they had to involve Hodiak and Shafe with the Manson investigation, they could have been called in as extra help rather than being in the thick of it.

But it's all moot at this point. Oh, well. For all its faults, the show was entertaining, and it's always great to see Duchovny and his dry wit on TV.

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txhorns79

txhorns79

Quote

I think making the Manson story so prominent was the biggest problem. It's too well-known of an event to add fictionalized elements, IMO. Especially since the show tried not to be about how the Manson case was solved. The show was trying to have it both ways as far as that goes. 

I would agree with this in part.  I would agree that the Manson element took up too much of the show, and it felt like the writers sidetracked the other characters to focus on that story.  I can imagine that would have hurt their chances to bring in more viewers, and may have turned off the viewers who thought this would be more of a late 60s-era detective show.  I honestly don't know how many people would care if they got every element of the Manson story absolutely correct, and I don't think that mattered much in terms of the poor ratings.

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

I think one of the big problems is that the Manson crimes are such intense and well-known ones that it did matter that they got the storytelling elements of it right. Veering from the Manson case in any way was a huge disrespect and painful re-opening of the wound to the family members still alive who suffered great losses at the hands of Charles Manson's followers. Sharon Tate's sister has been an understandably vocal opposition to the show. I can understand her not wanting a person like Charles Manson or his followers glorified as misunderstood in any way.

If they wanted to do a late 60s-era detective show, they could have done it more along the veins of Mad Men, who managed to hint at or weave in actual social events throughout the series without making the show about those true life events. Instead it was more about how those events affected the characters. The Manson case could have been a peripheral one that shocked the department where David Duchovny's character worked, as it shocked so many back then. But the show didn't need to be about it in the way it was, or manufacture lead characters' relationships with Manson the way it did. Frankly, I think they did it to go for the shock value and the exploration of the Manson character, but the problem with that is... he's not a made-up character; he's a real person who did (or encouraged others to do) monstrous, violent actions, and you cannot treat that as "just a story" to play with. 

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txhorns79

txhorns79

(edited)
Quote

Frankly, I think they did it to go for the shock value and the exploration of the Manson character, but the problem with that is... he's not a made-up character; he's a real person who did (or encouraged others to do) monstrous, violent actions, and you cannot treat that as "just a story" to play with. 

I think you can play with the story.  Hitler has been thrown in as a character in movies, television and novels for decades.  Heck, we wouldn't have a classic like "Springtime for Hitler" if someone decided that wasn't a story that could be played with.  My only point being is that if Hitler is not off limits, I can't imagine Charles Manson is beyond being explored.  I would agree though that this show didn't handle the situation particularly well.      

Edited by txhorns79
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luna1122

luna1122

I am actually very very sad about this. Not only because I am forever in love with Duchovny, tho I am, but I think the show had really hit its stride. I was riveted weekly, and I really really wanted to see how this played out.

Oh well. Frees DD up for more X-files, which makes me happy, but damn. I will miss Hodiak and company.

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