The Books vs. The Show: Comparisons, Speculation, and Snark

[Ophelia]

 Do you all recall that the church where Jamie and Claire get married is the SAME ONE where Frank and Claire got married? Holy Dickensian coincidence Batman!

 

That never made sense to me, given that earlier in the novel, Claire seemed to barely know the Reverend.... 

 

"...“you’d better get dressed. Aren’t you meeting that parson at ten?” The Rev. Dr. Reginald Wakefield, vicar of the local parish, was to provide some rivetingly fascinating baptismal registers for Frank’s inspection..."

 

'that parson' seems a strange way to refer to the man who married them (at, of course, the very same tiny church where she and Jamie happen to marry 200 years in the past).

 

In regards to the latest episode, I really wish they kept Jamie's full speech (and Colum's response) (and Jamie's response afterward...)  It was actually one of my favorite scenes in the book:

 

Jamie - “Colum MacKenzie, I come to you as kinsman and as ally. I give ye no vow, for my oath is pledged to the name that I bear.” There was a low, ominous growl from the crowd, but he ignored it and went on. “But I give ye freely the things that I have; my help and my goodwill, wherever ye should find need of them. I give ye my obedience, as kinsman and as laird, and I hold myself bound by your word, so long as my feet rest on the lands of clan MacKenzie.”

 

Colum - “We are honored by your offer of friendship and goodwill,” said Colum clearly. “We accept your obedience and hold you in good faith as an ally of the clan MacKenzie.”

 

And finally Jamie's response - which I think (in the book at least) helped to alleviate any tensions from the MacKenzie's at his not taking a vow to ally himself with the Mackenzies.

 

"There was a lessening of the tension over the hall, and almost an audible sigh of relief in the gallery as Colum drank from the quaich and offered it to Jamie. The young man accepted it with a smile. Instead of the customary ceremonial sip, however, he carefully raised the nearly full vessel, tilted it and drank. And kept on drinking. There was a gasp of mingled respect and amusement from the spectators, as the powerful throat muscles kept moving. Surely he’d have to breathe soon, I thought, but no. He drained the heavy cup to the last drop, lowered it with an explosive gasp for air, and handed it back to Colum.  “The honor is mine,” he said, a little hoarsely, “to be allied with a clan whose taste in whisky is so fine.”

[Minerette]

That never made sense to me, given that earlier in the novel, Claire seemed to barely know the Reverend....

Rev. Wakefield didn't marry Frank and Claire, since they are Catholic and were married in a Catholic church - the same one in which Claire also married Jamie.

[Ariah]

The only thing I'm still missing from the book are Gaellis' remarks that Colum's son is in fact Jamie's.

 

I kind of regret they dropped this point.

[Ophelia]

Rev. Wakefield didn't marry Frank and Claire, since they are Catholic and were married in a Catholic church - the same one in which Claire also married Jamie.

Oh duh!  I was thinking of this line from Drums then...

 

The Reverend Wakefield wouldn’t have done the ceremony, not being a Catholic priest, but he was one of her father’s oldest friends; the reception must have been held at the manse.

 

At any rate, still seemed odd that Claire seemed to barely know the man...

[absnow54]

The only thing I'm still missing from the book are Gaellis' remarks that Colum's son is in fact Jamie's.

I kind of regret they dropped this point.

I always found that point kind of extraneous, with not much payoff. Geillis drops the bomb and then it isn't brought up again until Claire finds out Jamie is a virgin, and it's more along the lines of "Guess that bit of crazy isn't true... moving on" I like the way they've already established that Dougal is Hamish's father. What I found odd was how competitive Dougal and Jamie were to be laird in the Gathering episode with no mention that Hamish was technically next in line.

 

With the humor in this episode and the great chemistry between Claire and the clansmen, I'm even more excited for the wedding episode. All of those fun scenes leading up to the ceremony and then of course post-consummation are going to be a blast to see played out by these actors.

Edited August 31, 2014 by absnow54

[doesntworkonwood]

I really liked how they got Loaghaire to ask Claire for a potion. They're setting up the witch hunt really nicely, especially as they aren't going to do they child dying scene. Presumably Loaghaire is going to 'testify' against Claire, and this is some good set up for it, especially as it showed Claire's naivety when it comes to such matters. 

 

I also think that it will make a really interesting set up for after the wedding, it will give Loaghaire a more solid reason to hate Claire, presumably Loaghaire will believe that the 'potion' given to her will have actually been harmful to her attempts to seduce Jamie (as Claire wanted him for herself).

[Petunia846]

I'm still waiting for wee Roger to show up.

[nodorothyparker]

In regards to the latest episode, I really wish they kept Jamie's full speech (and Colum's response) (and Jamie's response afterward...)  It was actually one of my favorite scenes in the book:

 

Jamie - “Colum MacKenzie, I come to you as kinsman and as ally. I give ye no vow, for my oath is pledged to the name that I bear.” There was a low, ominous growl from the crowd, but he ignored it and went on. “But I give ye freely the things that I have; my help and my goodwill, wherever ye should find need of them. I give ye my obedience, as kinsman and as laird, and I hold myself bound by your word, so long as my feet rest on the lands of clan MacKenzie.”

 

Colum - “We are honored by your offer of friendship and goodwill,” said Colum clearly. “We accept your obedience and hold you in good faith as an ally of the clan MacKenzie.”

 

And finally Jamie's response - which I think (in the book at least) helped to alleviate any tensions from the MacKenzie's at his not taking a vow to ally himself with the Mackenzies.

 

"There was a lessening of the tension over the hall, and almost an audible sigh of relief in the gallery as Colum drank from the quaich and offered it to Jamie. The young man accepted it with a smile. Instead of the customary ceremonial sip, however, he carefully raised the nearly full vessel, tilted it and drank. And kept on drinking. There was a gasp of mingled respect and amusement from the spectators, as the powerful throat muscles kept moving. Surely he’d have to breathe soon, I thought, but no. He drained the heavy cup to the last drop, lowered it with an explosive gasp for air, and handed it back to Colum.  “The honor is mine,” he said, a little hoarsely, “to be allied with a clan whose taste in whisky is so fine.”

 

I really wish they had kept it too.  I think this scene as written perfectly demonstrates that for all Jamie's disparaging throughout the books about how wily the Mackenzies of Leoch are, he's one too and quite capable of playing the game.  Claire even comments at this point that he has just as much of a knack for a good bit of theater as his uncles do.

 

This episode, as always, was beautifully shot if a little dark at points, and I loved the game of shinty which is only alluded to in the book.  It was a brilliant illustration of the ongoing power struggle Dougal believes he's in with Jamie, the son of his estranged late sister.  I respect that they took their time with Geordie's death scene.  TV doesn't tend to do that at all, let alone as well as they did here.

 

I sort of agree though with which ever reviewer who said this episode was full of humor and great little character moments (dried horse dung and the Wizard of Oz may be the greatest love potion ever), but it didn't feel as cohesively tied together as previous episodes.  It was very reminiscent of this section of the book, which does at times read like "and then this happened and then this happened."

 

Edited August 31, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[thingamajig]

I really liked how they got Loaghaire to ask Claire for a potion. They're setting up the witch hunt really nicely, especially as they aren't going to do they child dying scene. Presumably Loaghaire is going to 'testify' against Claire, and this is some good set up for it, especially as it showed Claire's naivety when it comes to such matters. 

 

Yes, as soon as she turned around and started putting together a "potion" I said, "Oh, Claire.  That's gonna get you burned at the stake."  Since they already used Jamie's speech to Claire that comes after she tries to save the baby, I assume they're leaving that scene out and using scenes like this and the sick boy as evidence that will be used against her instead.

[Glaze Crazy]

How are we assuming that the changling scene is not going to be shown?  I don't actively search out spoilers, so I just wondered where this was coming from?  If so, how will Claire connect Roger to Dougal in the future?  I always thought it was because she knew the family that had a baby die and that was where Dougal's son went, so when she sees it on Roger's family tree she makes the connection then.

 

I like the additional bit with Laoghaire coming to Claire for a love potion.  It makes Laoghaire's upcoming disappointment more bitter and since she thought Claire was on her side, now she's really going to be pissed off. 

[nodorothyparker]

I think a lot of people are assuming because Jamie's dialogue from the black kirk last week about not believing in demons and fairies because he's an educated man was lifted almost verbatim from the changling scenes in the book.  Beyond that, I have no idea.

[Petunia846]

How are we assuming that the changling scene is not going to be shown?  I don't actively search out spoilers, so I just wondered where this was coming from?  If so, how will Claire connect Roger to Dougal in the future?  I always thought it was because she knew the family that had a baby die and that was where Dougal's son went, so when she sees it on Roger's family tree she makes the connection then.

I never made a connection between the changeling baby and Roger's ancestor's adoption. Do we know the names of the changeling baby's parents? I know we see them in the witch trial scene, but I don't remember them being named. I thought Claire knew about the adoptive parent's first baby dying because of the geneology research she had paid to be done for her before she went to Scotland with Bree.

[Glaze Crazy]

OK I checked in Voyager for the bit about Roger's family tree.  It's near the end when Claire is telling Roger about how the story affects him too. 

 

I was wrong, it has nothing to do with the changeling.  Heh, I don't know why I made that connection, but I've always went with it in my interpretation of how Geillis' baby became Roger's ancestor.  That's why I thought they wouldn't be able to leave it out.  Only in my own head...

 

Claire says she asked Colum where Geillis' baby went and he told her the names of the parents, who are William Buccleigh Mackenzie's parents on Roger's family tree.  Not a changeling, just given to a couple who had just lost their own child and given the name of the child that died without noting he was adopted into the family.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Glaze Crazy

[Athena]

It's been years since I read Outlander and Dragonfly, but the show is reminding me how much I loved Murtagh and Dougal. When Roger mentioned Dougal in the recent book, I had forgotten about Dougal's death. It made me sad again because he really is a fascinating character. I sometimes forget how memorable Diana writes her secondary characters. 

 

The portrayal of Dougal on the show in this past episode was wonderful. The casting worked tremendously well and they have depicted all aspects of him as leader, a brother, an uncle, and an older man in general. 

 

I have a bias for Lotte Verbeek as well which will make it uncomfortable for me to hate Geillis in Voyager/S3. Sigh. 

[CatMack]

I really liked how they got Loaghaire to ask Claire for a potion. They're setting up the witch hunt really nicely, especially as they aren't going to do they child dying scene. Presumably Loaghaire is going to 'testify' against Claire, and this is some good set up for it, especially as it showed Claire's naivety when it comes to such matters.

 

That was my first thought too, but IDK if that works for me the more I think about it.  When Jamie remarries during his separation from Claire, he never thought he'd see her again and he was lonely so that didn't bother me at all.  But that he married Laoghaire?  That bothered me, but in the end I forgave him because he never really found out her part in nearly getting Claire killed.  At least not that I can remember.  I know Brianna reveals it to Jenny and Ian eventually, but at least up to where I've read I don't recall Jamie ever learning of Laoghaire's part, because it was so minor she was able to get away with it.  If she actively testifies against Claire, I can't see that going unnoticed, and I can't see Jamie marrying her after that.  So IDK. 

[bluebonnet]

In the  books, Jamie isn't even there for the initial trials.  He and Claire don't even really talk about it, apart from mentioning the vaccination scar on Geillis.  In any case, that potion would still be trouble because Laoghaire would use it against Claire.  She would think Claire deliberately messed it up to take Jaime away from her.  It gives her more motive, and even understandable motive, if it appears that Loaghaire (god, I cant ever spell that name right) is somewhat invested in saving Jaime from what she perceives as an evil witch rather than wholly invested in self-serving love interest.  Which is what I got from the books, anyway.  

 

We got it all from Claire's POV so it just came off as a really nasty thing.  And it was.  No sense in denying that sending people to be burned at the stake isn't nasty.  But from Laoghaire's POV, it might have been different.  She, after all, thought Jaime needed her.  She also believes in stuff like witches and devils.  Jaime took a beating for her and then made out with her.  For a young girl, that looks like love (given the times).  All of Claire's behavior and the talk about her in the castle and village would likely have screamed "witch" to someone like Laoghaire.  Couple that with learning that Dougal forced Jaime and Claire to wed for obscure reasons that probably got further obscured in the rumor mill....it's really not surprising that Laoghaire would take such steps to remove Claire from Jaime's life in order to save his soul, even if she did so in the hopes of getting him for herself.  

[nodorothyparker]

We got it all from Claire's POV so it just came off as a really nasty thing.  And it was.  No sense in denying that sending people to be burned at the stake isn't nasty.  But from Laoghaire's POV, it might have been different.  She, after all, thought Jaime needed her.  She also believes in stuff like witches and devils.  Jaime took a beating for her and then made out with her.  For a young girl, that looks like love (given the times).  All of Claire's behavior and the talk about her in the castle and village would likely have screamed "witch" to someone like Laoghaire.  Couple that with learning that Dougal forced Jaime and Claire to wed for obscure reasons that probably got further obscured in the rumor mill....it's really not surprising that Laoghaire would take such steps to remove Claire from Jaime's life in order to save his soul, even if she did so in the hopes of getting him for herself.

 

The chapter about this in Echo made me rather sad for her, even knowing what a disaster her actions could have ended in for Claire.  She lived her whole life for an idea of something that never existed.

 

No, Jamie never knew of Laoghaire's role in that, which I always thought was weird that it didn't come out at the time of the second marriage reveal and ensuing insanity.  Claire finally tells him years later in the fifth or sixth book after they learn via letter that Laoghaire's been mmphming the hired help and they're trying to figure out how to get him out of his settlement with her.  Jamie's pretty emphatic at that point that he never would have had anything to do with her had he known.  Granted, it's easy for him to say at this point but I'm inclined to believe him.

Edited September 1, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[bluebonnet]

It may be that I read the books too fast and skimmed over some sections too quickly, but it seemed like there was always an awful lot left unsaid.  Jaime and Claire communicate so much and know each other so well and yet conveniently leave out the stuff that needs saying for plot purposes.  The lack of communication at convenient times really grated.  That along with a lot of inconsistencies.  Or characters appearing  or disappearing out of nowhere.  I don't know how many times I was surprised by Ian showing up.  Once, they were on a ship and pages and pages of no Ian and then suddenly Ian is there and is very important to what's going on.  'Twas weird. 

 

I'm hoping the show corrects these things.  While I enjoy it being from Claire's POV, I hope the camera continues to remind us that there are other people involved in her story.  

[Petunia846]

It may be that I read the books too fast and skimmed over some sections too quickly, but it seemed like there was always an awful lot left unsaid.  Jaime and Claire communicate so much and know each other so well and yet conveniently leave out the stuff that needs saying for plot purposes.  The lack of communication at convenient times really grated.

This is the thing I dislike most about the books (which is far outweighed by the many, many things I do like about them, but still...that's my biggest complaint).

[peacefrog]

I'm back! Watched the last two episodes back to back last night. Someone touched on this already but I also wished they left Jamie's oath swearing speech intact. I thought in the book it was much more "theatrical" and a great insight into Jamie's character. We've seen brief flashes of his humor but I need more! I also thought that scene in the book is a great way to showcase his leadership skills and why the other men would choose him as a leader.

Overall the episode was great because you do see Jamie "manipulating" Claire into coming back to the castle as well as working his charm on Colum and Dougal. He has a knack for making people do what is necessary while thinking it was their choice all along.

I have tons to catch up on. I need to research the episodes and check out all the podcasts, interviews and recaps! I can't believe halfway through the first mini season!

[WatchrTina]

I finally got to see "The Gathering" this morning.  I'm trying to let go of the book-vs-show perspective when I watch but gosh I hated Claire giving Laoghaire a fake love potion. And it didn't even make sense.   "Sprinkle it across his threshold"  What threshold?  He doesn't have a house -- and given the way he's being treated I doubt if he even has a room of his own.  I rather assumed he'd "found a bed" in a bunkhouse with other single men.  Good luck casting your spell on the right man Laoghaire.  Ye may end up with Angus panting after ye.  I get that Claire might have thought that giving Laoghaire something, anything, might be the fastest way to get rid of her, but it still grated on me.  I wonder if that's only because as a reader I know (apparently better than Claire) how dangerous it is to be thought a  witch in these times.  Now I think about it, it was clever of the writers to give Geillis that line "They say I'm a witch" in the second episode because the way she says it could give Claire the mistaken idea that being thought a witch was really no big deal.  It obviously wasn't doing Geillis any harm.

 

I also grumbled a bit at the start of the episode.  I understand what the writers were doing with the first scene, but I didn't like it because it seemed unrealistic that Claire would have time to play with children several days in a row -- or even that children would want to play with an Outlander.  That game seems like the sort of thing a favorite uncle might play with his young relatives -- not an English Lady who is also the acting castle healer and an honored guest of the Laird.  I guess I found it hard to believe that her hosts would not find her actions suspicious.

 

I thought the addition of the Shinty game was genius.  I've already talked about it in the episode thread but I'll go on to say that that is the sort of scene that is better on camera than it could have ever been in a book.  No need to explain the rules -- just let the testosterone-fueled mayhem run riot.  On the the other hand, the book did a much better job of describing the scale of the gathering.  I know there were tons of extra actors in this episode but not nearly as many as were described in the book.  I understand the limitations of the budget but I was craving a crane shot or one from a helicopter (or more likely a CGI shot) that pulled back from the castle to show the grounds around the castle and the sheer number of people who had gathered for the event.

[Nidratime]

I was reading another message board and people were talking about the attraction Dougal feels towards Claire and how he's a good looking man and a few of them felt Claire should hook up with him. Then someone said....

 

When Gabaldon first started writing Outlander, Dougal was supposed to be the love interest. But Jamie's character kept asserting himself and so she changed the focus of the romance to Jamie and Claire.

 

Is that true? I never knew that. I would be curious to see earlier drafts to see how that original plan was evolving and how Jamie was "asserting himself."

[nodorothyparker]

I just heard a podcast the author gave with the release of the last book.  Considering that she's acknowledged that she started with the concept of Jamie based on a pre-Culloden Highland character also named James or Jamie from an old Doctor Who episode and started filling in the blanks from there, it's hard to imagine that could have ever seriously been her intent but who knows?

[Petunia846]

I was reading another message board and people were talking about the attraction Dougal feels towards Claire and how he's a good looking man and a few of them felt Claire should hook up with him. Then someone said....

 

 

Is that true? I never knew that. I would be curious to see earlier drafts to see how that original plan was evolving and how Jamie was "asserting himself."

I don't know anything about that, but I've heard Diana say in many podcasts that Claire was never supposed to be a 20th century woman. She was working on the scene in the cottage when Jamie's arm is messed up, and she wanted to add a woman for some more conflict, and thought an English woman would be even more conflict, and then when she went to write Claire, Claire's voice just always seemed to modern for the time, so she added in the time travel stuff and just went with it.

[doesntworkonwood]

I finally got to see "The Gathering" this morning.  I'm trying to let go of the book-vs-show perspective when I watch but gosh I hated Claire giving Laoghaire a fake love potion. And it didn't even make sense.   "Sprinkle it across his threshold"  What threshold?  He doesn't have a house -- and given the way he's being treated I doubt if he even has a room of his own.  I rather assumed he'd "found a bed" in a bunkhouse with other single men.  Good luck casting your spell on the right man Laoghaire.  Ye may end up with Angus panting after ye.  I get that Claire might have thought that giving Laoghaire something, anything, might be the fastest way to get rid of her, but it still grated on me.  I wonder if that's only because as a reader I know (apparently better than Claire) how dangerous it is to be thought a  witch in these times.  Now I think about it, it was clever of the writers to give Geillis that line "They say I'm a witch" in the second episode because the way she says it could give Claire the mistaken idea that being thought a witch was really no big deal.  It obviously wasn't doing Geillis any harm.

 

 

 

 

Jamie doesn't have a house, I'm pretty sure he sleeps in the stables, so if Loaghaire was to sprinkle horse dung on the threshold to the stables, it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever, because Jamie wouldn't notice it at all. 

 

I personally saw the scene as a continuation of Claire's matchmaking attempts from the previous episode. I think she was just being nice, and whilst wanting to make Loaghaire leave quickly was definitely a part of it, I think it was more Claire trying to uplift Loaghaire's spirits, especially as she could have just as easily said 'No, sorry, I don't have anything' without worrying about Loaghaires feelings as she was (supposed to be) leaving straight after.

 

 

That was my first thought too, but IDK if that works for me the more I think about it.  When Jamie remarries during his separation from Claire, he never thought he'd see her again and he was lonely so that didn't bother me at all.  But that he married Laoghaire?  That bothered me, but in the end I forgave him because he never really found out her part in nearly getting Claire killed.  At least not that I can remember.  I know Brianna reveals it to Jenny and Ian eventually, but at least up to where I've read I don't recall Jamie ever learning of Laoghaire's part, because it was so minor she was able to get away with it.  If she actively testifies against Claire, I can't see that going unnoticed, and I can't see Jamie marrying her after that.  So IDK. 

 

 

Wasn't Jamie not there for the trial? I'm pretty sure he only came in after people had already testified, when Claire was being beaten, and since they didn't really talk about it afterwards (In Voyager Claire states that Jamie didn't know that it was Loaghaire who sent her to Geillis's) I think that it would be quite believable for him still not to know, especially as they don't go back to Castle Leoch, and Jamie would have no reason to step into MacKenzie lands, so would have no reason to hear about the trial. (And I'm sure he wouldn't hear it off Loaghaire herself, and Colum and Dougal aren't really going to talk about the trial to Jamie)

[thingamajig]

 

Wasn't Jamie not there for the trial? I'm pretty sure he only came in after people had already testified, when Claire was being beaten, and since they didn't really talk about it afterwards (In Voyager Claire states that Jamie didn't know that it was Loaghaire who sent her to Geillis's) I think that it would be quite believable for him still not to know, especially as they don't go back to Castle Leoch, and Jamie would have no reason to step into MacKenzie lands, so would have no reason to hear about the trial. (And I'm sure he wouldn't hear it off Loaghaire herself, and Colum and Dougal aren't really going to talk about the trial to Jamie)

Yes, I just read that scene last week.  He's off hunting with Sandringham and doesn't show up until they're about to toss Claire in the Loch ("What also floats in water?") but she was putting up a fight so they stripped her down and were whipping her.  He rides up, tosses the rosary over her head, and rides off with her.  They basically head straight for Lallybroch after that.

[WatchrTina]

 

They basically head straight for Lallybroch after that.

Weel, first they have to stop by Craigh na Dun and let Claire make THE CHOICE.  Then they go to Lallybroch.

[thingamajig]

Weel, first they have to stop by Craigh na Dun and let Claire make THE CHOICE.  Then they go to Lallybroch.

Oh, duh!  I forgot what order that all happened in.  

[Petunia846]

This is totally random, but now that we know we're getting a season 2, that makes me feel more confident about getting a season 3 (and more), and I can't stop thinking about future casting. Specifically, I can't stop thinking about Toby Regbo for Lord John. I don't know if he's well-regarded or not, but I really love him. He's pretty much the only reason why I'm still watching Reign. I think he'd be perfect for Lord John, because he's got that petite, delicate, almost girlish stature, plus the fair skin and blond hair. He's been doing great with this aristocratic, period piece part so far. Plus he is actually English, so the accent and all would be easy. He's also about ten years younger than Sam and Cait, so that's about right. I don't know, I'm rereading Voyager right now and that's just who I keep imagining, now that it's a real possibility that that book might actually end up on our TV screens someday. I'm sure there's less than like 1% chance of him being cast, but if he could some how get out of Reign and come to Outlander, I'd be a happy camper. Anyway, that's all, carry on...don't mind me...

[WatchrTina]

Just thought I'd note all the love I'm feeling for Murtaugh these days.  He's nice to Claire (translating Colum's talk for her) but he doesn't pull any punches when she's the cause of Jamie being in peril.  I loved his line,"I'm getting to old for this" at the end of Jamie's not-oath-taking and I REALLY loved his watching out for Jamie during the game of shinty, giving Angus a wee knock in the bollocks and admonishing him to "play nice now." 

 

So I'm really happy we will have a season 2.  I can't wait to see Duncan Lacroix play the scene after Murtaugh fails to protect Claire and her young friend Mary.  So much is revealed in that scene. I think it's going to be great.

[Minerette]

I keep thinking of Karen Gillan for Bree.

[Athena]

I'd like Deborah Ann Woll for Bree, but she's already on "Daredevil" this fall. I'm not a big Brianna fan by any means, but DAW is beautiful and was one of the better things about True Blood. She has screen charisma.

[WatchrTina]

The actress who played Ygrette on Game of Thrones is also available.  But I don't recall her being particularly tall.  I'm six feet tall and I'm really really looking forward to a statuesque Brianna.

[doesntworkonwood]

I'm quite curious about how they're going to age up Loaghaire. Nell Hudson does not look like she could pull off being in her thirties, so I wonder if they're going to cast a new actress. 

 

As much as I love Karen Gillan, I don't think she looks young enough to play Brianna. 

[absnow54]

I was reviewing the scene where Dougal tells Jamie and Claire that they'll be going on the road with him, and I'm wondering if they plan to keep playing the "we need a healer along" card, or if Dougal will reveal that they plan on letting her go at Fort William to find her family (even though I think he really just plans on handing her off to Randal... my memory of that part of the book is a bit fuzzy)

[thingamajig]

I was reviewing the scene where Dougal tells Jamie and Claire that they'll be going on the road with him, and I'm wondering if they plan to keep playing the "we need a healer along" card, or if Dougal will reveal that they plan on letting her go at Fort William to find her family (even though I think he really just plans on handing her off to Randal... my memory of that part of the book is a bit fuzzy)

Yeah, as a book reader I found this confusing.  In the book he says that he'll take her to Fort William so that "the commander there" can help her find her family in France (though Claire suspects that Dougal also wants help in figuring out who she is).  No mention of needing a healer along. It's a pretty straightforward conversation and I wondered why they changed it.  I wonder if they're rearranging the plot some more?

[nodorothyparker]

I wondered that too and then decided to chalk it up to Dougal being less than straightforward with her until we know otherwise.  I know from spoilers and episode titles that the confrontation with Black Jack is supposed to be in the episode after this next one, so I would think they can't be changing it up too much.  There are British soldiers in the previews though and we know we don't actually see any at this point in the book, so I guess it's anybody's guess.

[absnow54]

I'm betting it will have something to do with Claire protesting Dogal's army funds collection. On the show, nobody seems to care where Claire is from anymore except for Geillis, so this may ping Dougal's spy radar and he'll dump her off at Fort William?

[Nidratime]

Even though I am a book reader, I read the books so long ago, I really can't remember many of the details. So, seeing them all go off on this rent collecting excursion, I took what Dougal said at face value -- although, of course, I shouldn't. I began to wonder more about it when I saw that Jamie was going along too. I also wondered why Colum would be okay with Claire going off on this trip when it's clear she has been helpful in tending to his ailment and has proved useful to the Castle community.

[nodorothyparker]

I'm betting it will have something to do with Claire protesting Dogal's army funds collection. On the show, nobody seems to care where Claire is from anymore except for Geillis, so this may ping Dougal's spy radar and he'll dump her off at Fort William?

 

That might make sense since they're playing up the "sowing dissent" among the Mackenzies line in the preview, which also really isn't in the book.  Maybe he decides she's more trouble than she's worth and decides to dump her off on Black Jack to find out what the deal is?  While I liked Dougal for what he was in the books, he's not a terribly sympathetic character and they seem to be playing that up more on the show.  Removing the premeditation of just handing her over to a psychopath like Black Jack would be in keeping with that.

[mybabyaidan]

As far as I can remember from the book, she does know when they leave Leoch that Dougal is planning on delivering her to Ft William.   She worries about her cover story throughout the rent collecting.  I remember a little about her being surprised by how fast he gets her there though, she thought she had a few more days or something, but he whisks her away while the other guys are off somewhere.   I remember thinking he waited til Jamie was gone so he could deliver Claire to Randall with no interference. Also, didn't she meet him above a pub or tavern or at an inn?  I seem to remember it wasn't Ft William at this point, which was also why it took her by surprise.

 

Also, IIRC, it was mostly that he still didn't trust her and wanted to find out once and for all who the hell she was.  He didn't fully believe she wasn't a spy, until he realized that Randall beats her up during his interrogation.  That's when he gets her the hell out of there and orders the marriage.

 

I am going to go back and check the part when they leave the castle, but I am 99% sure she knows when they leave that she is headed for Ft William.

[thingamajig]

 

I am going to go back and check the part when they leave the castle, but I am 99% sure she knows when they leave that she is headed for Ft William.

Yes, she knows that Dougal plans to take her to Ft. William, and she's excited because that will get her closer to Craigh na Dun. I don't think she realizes that this means she'll be seeing Randall, specifically, though. He isn't mentioned by name.  

 

Maybe they changed that conversation just because hearing Claire think/voiceover yet again about how much she wants to escape to the stones would be redundant or boring after taking almost an entire episode up with an escape attempt.

[bluestocking]

In a recent interview the scriptwriter said book readers would be in for a surprise re Dougal/Claire.  Any ideas what that could be?  I like the theory that Dougal may first suggest Claire marry HIM.  Later on Dougal tells Claire he would have asked her if he hadn't been still married at the time.  In the show there's been no mention of Dougal's wife so they could easily present him as already a widower.  In the book Claire is given the choice of Jamie or Rupert.  Lots more drama if you throw Dougal into the mix.

[jah1986]

In a recent interview the scriptwriter said book readers would be in for a surprise re Dougal/Claire.  Any ideas what that could be?  

I've been thinking about how script writers would change the show for book readers and I keep coming back to Claire being forced to marry Dougal. I think that would shock most book readers, right?

[NoNeinNyet]

The actress who played Ygrette on Game of Thrones is also available.  But I don't recall her being particularly tall.  I'm six feet tall and I'm really really looking forward to a statuesque Brianna.

 

Ooo, Rose Leslie does do fiesty pretty well. Google says that she's 5'6", though, so not really tall enough. There's also the question of whether she can do an American accent. Her voice always sounds so Scottish to me that it would be weird to hear another accent coming out of her.

[absnow54]

I've been thinking about how script writers would change the show for book readers and I keep coming back to Claire being forced to marry Dougal. I think that would shock most book readers, right?

I hope not. I've had the Wedding episode air date marked in my calendar for months... for reasons.

 

Maybe how Jamie is chosen to be the groom in the marriage of convenience will be played around with. Like, perhaps, initially she will be paired with someone else (Dougal or Rupert) and Jamie will convince Dougal that he's the better choice because no one married to an Englishwoman would ever be voted laird or some such. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by absnow54

[nodorothyparker]

I've been thinking about how script writers would change the show for book readers and I keep coming back to Claire being forced to marry Dougal. I think that would shock most book readers, right?

 

It would certainly make for a more interesting choice than Rupert, who's really a very minor character in the books and has been mostly comic relief on the show.  But it would also bastardize a big part of Dougal's reasoning for picking Jamie in the first place, which as Jamie himself states was to disqualify him even further as a possible candidate to succeed Colum because the Mackenzies would never accept a sassenach as lady of Leoch.

 

On the other hand, it would further the rivalry between Dougal and Jamie that they're really playing up and fit what we know about Dougal's own feelings and motivations about Claire much later in the book.

Edited September 2, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[mybabyaidan]

Ok, I am not sure why I pointed out what everyone else already said regarding Ft William...sorry guys, it's been a long morning. 

 

I actually always wondered why it took so long for the book to point out that Dougal was indeed married.  Unless I skimmed the section where it says it, I don't think they mention it until his wife dies.  I guess it works better in the show too, to be ambiguous.  But even if he was single, marrying Claire should be out of the question at this point.   One of the main reasons he picked Jamie was to undermine him.

Edited September 2, 2014 by mybabyaidan

[bluestocking]

The book itself is contradictory--Dougal says he would have married Claire if he'd not been married vs. Jamie saying Dougal picked Jamie to undermine him.  So the scriptwriter could reconcile that by having Dougal initially acting impetuously to claim Claire, then Jamie pointing out the disadvantages to Dougal of having a Sassenach wife.  So then we'd see Jamie willingly giving up his shot at the lairdship in order to marry Claire. 

 

Then again, it's probably something else entirely.

[absnow54]

Oh man, good luck to those scriptwriters, because Jamie and Dougal's relationship is so complicated, I still don't understand it. Maybe tried to kill him. Probably smuggled him here. Don't let him become laird. We'll keep him protected, but we probably want him dead. Need a claim on his land by getting him hitched. Now we owe him money...