S02.E22: Burn

[PinkRibbons]

NOTE: Reign airs on Wednesdays in Canada, meaning that the episodes are very often viewed a day before they have aired in the US. Therefore please be aware that this thread will almost definitely have spoilers for those who wish to wait until Thursday night to view the new episode.

Season Finale!!!

 

Quote

In the second-season finale, Mary stops at nothing to ruin Condé. Meanwhile, Catherine meets with Elizabeth as a part a vengeful plot against Mary; Francis doubts Mary's loyalty to France; and Kenna holds a secret that affects her relationship with Bash.

 

US Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbvQSAHkOCw

 

Canadian Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNxkcH7dmAA

 

I gotta say I know nothing about the actress or how she's going to play her, but I think I may love Elizabeth just from that smirk of hers!

[Jonsi Igo]

Excited to see Rachel Skarsten as Queen E.

[ulkis]

I already want them to have tea and braid each other's hair. 

[PinkRibbons]

Inside the Episode! Been a while since we've seen one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3fRzx-gGD0

[brisbydog]

Well, they are not even trying to hide the fact Kenna is a gold digging opportunist, are they? Loved them hanging her boyfriend mid sentence when he is actually giving valuable information for the crown AND they knew he only turned traitor under duress.

 

Looks like Narcisse and Lola are a go next year! He needs to be as afraid of Catherine as Mary though

 

Oh great back to Frary moody love scenes.  Nice seeing Nostradamus again, and glad Francis' death is back on now I hate him again (I only like him when he hates Mary)

 

No idea what the hell any of the Delphine/Bash stuff was about.

[ulkis]

Well, they are not even trying to hide the fact Kenna is a gold digging opportunist, are they? Loved them hanging her boyfriend mid sentence when he is actually giving valuable information for the crown AND they knew he only turned traitor under duress.

 

Looks like Narcisse and Lola are a go next year! He needs to be as afraid of Catherine as Mary though

 

Oh great back to Frary moody love scenes.  Nice seeing Nostradamus again, and glad Francis' death is back on now I hate him again (I only like him when he hates Mary)

 

No idea what the hell any of the Delphine/Bash stuff was about.

 

What did you think of the actress who played Elizabeth, if you don't mind my asking?

[Artsda]

Kenna sure is a piece of work. I was happy when Bash told her off and wouldn't go for her tricks and claiming of the child. Gold digging opportunist right through the episode to the end, only status is important to her.

 

Narcisse and Lola! Loved him saving her and the baby, and his turning on Catherine for Lola. His storming into seeing Francis when he was scared for Lola and wanting to find her was great. He showed his vulnerabilities.

 

After all Conde did for Mary after her rape, she goes and stabs him. Plays on his love to her and treats him like that, that whole scene made me dislike her a lot. His crime was stupidly loving her.

[brisbydog]

 

What did you think of the actress who played Elizabeth, if you don't mind my asking?

 

She was not on long enough for me to really form an opinion. Young, CW version of Elizabeth, if you know what I mean. Did not do much beyond act snippy at Catherine and look good on her throne.

[dirtypop90]

After all Conde did for Mary after her rape, she goes and stabs him. Plays on his love to her and treats him like that, that whole scene made me dislike her a lot. His crime was stupidly loving her.

 

What did conde do for Mary except sleep with her? which he had been dying to do all season and finally got the chance because she was suffering ptsd. His crime was treason in the form of having an affair with the king's wife. And then he attacked the castle and raised an army to overthrow him so he could take mary for himself because she didn't want to leave for scotland with him. He's cray cray. I wish they would have actually killed him.

 

I don't like the lazy way they put francis and mary back together. Francis is dying so they use that to give him an excuse to forgive Mary quickly. Mary never suffers for her wrongdoings like other characters. She never has to grovel and beg for forgiveness like everyone else. It would have been far more satisfying for them to show her actually working to get her life back. The character needed some serious redemption but it seems the writers don't see it that way.

 

I hate the writing for kenna and catherine. 

 

Bash and all of his s/ls are a waste of space. He should've been gone last season after the triangle was over, because these writers clearly don't know what do with him. They just threw him together with kenna, and I think kenna would've been better as a single lady. Now, they've just thrown him back in another flop supernatural s/l just like his pagan s/l, and the darkness s/l.

Edited May 14, 2015 by dirtypop90

[ulkis]

I don't like the lazy way they put francis and mary back together. Francis is dying so they use that to give him an excuse to forgive Mary quickly. Mary never suffers for her wrongdoings like other characters. She never has to grovel and beg for forgiveness like everyone else. It would have been far more satisfying for them to show her actually working to get her life back. The character needed some serious redemption but it seems the writers don't see it that way.

 

well . . . she does get imprisoned for 20 years and then killed, so  . . . at least you know that's coming? :)

 

I like Bash but yeah he probably should have been killed off. Or been banished by Catherine

[dirtypop90]

well . . . she does get imprisoned for 20 years and then killed, so  . . . at least you know that's coming? :)

 

I like Bash but yeah he probably should have been killed off. Or been banished by Catherine

 

show won't make it long enough for us to see that. the CW moved reign to the death slot next season, fridays at 8PM. They're not going to scotland next season. And next season is likely to be their last full season. They will get a short 4th summer season to push it to syndication. So we likely won't even get to see her life become hell in scotland...pity

[ulkis]

I know, I was joking :) Even if they did get to scotland I doubt they would get to all that. 

[PinkRibbons]

Screw all these people except Catherine and Elizabeth (eh, and Greer. So proud of myself for calling the Whorebomb she released). I'll be back next season and I want to see nothing but Mary taking blow after blow from the infinitely more brilliant Catherine and the intriguingly nasty Elizabeth.

[Morrigan2575]

That was crap.

Is the actress that plays Kenna leaving the show? That really felt like a goodbye, they even set her up with a King of her very own.

[redsox7819]

Why does Conde still have his head? I get why etc but I wanted him to die!!

[ulkis]

That was crap.

Is the actress that plays Kenna leaving the show? That really felt like a goodbye, they even set her up with a King of her very own.

The last two minutes made up for it for me.

I hated the use of the phrase pen pals. I did like Narcisse's line that what's worse than being hated by Catherine de Medici is being loved by her.

Was the Francis and Nostradamus scene supposed to be a flashback? It was so awkward and short.

Delphine's too stupid. It's like she wanted to get caught.

Mary, you just stabbed Conde in the gut. Pretty sure he doesn't care whether you actually wanted to do it or not.

Adelaide Kane has really mastered the art of tearing up, poor girl.

[Rhetorica]

So Mary's the hero? She saved everyone single handedly and overcame her rape rage and depression in one night. Her Ladies in Waiting haven't fared well. I'm glad the Catherine storyline took her to England. I didn't like her groveling to Narcisse. I look forward to Catherine and Elizabeth next year. See you all then!

[missbonnie]

show won't make it long enough for us to see that. the CW moved reign to the death slot next season, fridays at 8PM.

That's exactly what I thought when I saw that too. Friday night is where shows on the CW go to die. LOL

Edited May 15, 2015 by missbonnie

[ulkis]

That's exactly what I thought when I saw that too. Friday night is where shows on the CW go to die. LOL

 

Wasn't Supernatural on Fridays for a season? Some shows manage to continue on after being put in that spot. Not that I think Reign will, but it happens.

[Morrigan2575]

Wasn't Supernatural on Fridays for a season? Some shows manage to continue on after being put in that spot. Not that I think Reign will, but it happens.

Both Supernatural and Smallville were sent to Friday's to die.  Dawn O hated those shows because they attracted male viewers which interfered with her young girl brand network.  

 

Supernatural surprisingly survived (2 seasons) on Friday and when Mark P took over the network he moved it back to Wednesday's and paired it with S1 of Arrow.  Which made sense, SPN did well on Friday's and SPN was one of the few CW shows that appealed to both male/female viewers.

[Featherhat]

Sci-fi/genre shows have a strong tradition on Friday nights. The sci-fi/syfy channel used to put it's most popular shows there for years (Stargates, BSG, Farscape, Haven many more ) they might still do but I don't follow any of their current shows anymore. Grimm has carved out a niche there as well as have older skewing and cheaper network shows. I don't think there's much doubt that they've sent Reign there with the expectation of cancellation or a much shorter 4th season (ala Hart of Dixie). It's a show who's prime demographic stereotypically has better things to do on a Friday evening.

The first season I thought was ridiculous in a silly but charming way. Ok Pagans are standing in for Huguenots and there's sexy Nostradamus causing havoc with ever changing prophecies. There were CW love triangles but they actually ended in more interesting ways than the usual. It knew it was insane and was having fun and once I stopped thinking about more thana vague wave in History's direction it became fun nonsense.

This season has ruined all that. They weren't prepared for the religious issues. Mary being tolerant was laughable as that was her one main bargaining tool in life, that she was Catholic and would deliver a Catholic Scotland and a Catholic England. If she is tolerant (a stance I totally approve of IRL) she has little claim to England anyway.

The rape was icky. (Yes "icky" is what I'm going for) not because it happened but because it was blatantly a set up for Mary to feel guilt free for having an affair with Conde who was already doing his best to sleep with her before that. Not to mention a catalyst Mary to behave terribly to Francis and then still come out a heroine. I loath bitching about female characters reactions to rape, and I'm really not trying to victim blame but it feels like Francis ended up doing 80% of the heavy lifting in their relationship (he was the only one acknowledging they had an actual one) for 2/3rds of this season and Mary magically sweeps in to claim 90% of the credit.

And Kenna can just go away now. Yep times are not kind to women, but there's a point at which "young lady with few options desperately trying to get security in form of high ranking, well off husband/lover" (ala S1 Greer) and "unrepentant shallow goldigger" is just unpleasant to watch.

Catherine and Elizabeth should definitely team up to successfully take down Mary, if they are going to never go to Scotland and the Conde situation was Darnley/Bothwell why can't Mary be captured and imprisoned by Liz I fleeing France not Scotland?

[PinkRibbons]

You know, this idea has been ringing in my head for a few days, but I just got it into words. The thing I really really REALLY think Catherine should have said to Francis after the kidnapping was revealed:

 

"Your selfish pig-pigheadedness* and refusal to listen to my experienced advice finally led me to an impossible choice. It was either the false and temporary death of your son or the very real death of my five (?) children and grandson. What choice was I supposed to make?"

 

*Because come on, keeping Conde alive was preposterous. The only reason he lived was Mary's guilt and Francis wanting to please her yet again. Conde's on the loose now and even though I hate the character, I do hope he returns to show just how stupid they were to leave him alive.

[t7686]

She was not on long enough for me to really form an opinion. Young, CW version of Elizabeth, if you know what I mean. Did not do much beyond act snippy at Catherine and look good on her throne.

I liked her. I've liked Rachel Skarsten as an actress since her "Little Men" days on PAX. She seems to have Elizabeth's fiestiness.

I mostly liked the episode but I wish Catherine called Francis out on the fact that Mary is forgiven over and over again for all the crap she's pulled but Catherine is banished just like that? Ridiculous.

[Andromeda]

Well, they are not even trying to hide the fact Kenna is a gold digging opportunist, are they? Loved them hanging her boyfriend mid sentence when he is actually giving valuable information for the crown AND they knew he only turned traitor under duress.

 

Looks like Narcisse and Lola are a go next year! He needs to be as afraid of Catherine as Mary though

 

Oh great back to Frary moody love scenes.  Nice seeing Nostradamus again, and glad Francis' death is back on now I hate him again (I only like him when he hates Mary)

 

No idea what the hell any of the Delphine/Bash stuff was about.

Me, too, especially the bolded part. I was rooting for Francis -- up until he banished his mother. Dick move, that. Yes, she lied, but Mary is the true traitor here, and she is never punished for it. Also, did Catherine take her younger kids with her? Because if not, total dick move on Francis' behalf. I was totally on her side in the need to execute Conde. This kinder, gentler ruling doesn't work in that day and age -- it will just appear weak.

So, I was on Francis' side up to that moment, and all the smooshy stuff with Mary just made me barf.

I hated the use of the phrase pen pals.

Seriously! Talk about an anachronism!

The first season I thought was ridiculous in a silly but charming way. Ok Pagans are standing in for Huguenots and there's sexy Nostradamus causing havoc with ever changing prophecies. There were CW love triangles but they actually ended in more interesting ways than the usual. It knew it was insane and was having fun and once I stopped thinking about more thana vague wave in History's direction it became fun nonsense.

This season has ruined all that. They weren't prepared for the religious issues. Mary being tolerant was laughable as that was her one main bargaining tool in life, that she was Catholic and would deliver a Catholic Scotland and a Catholic England. If she is tolerant (a stance I totally approve of IRL) she has little claim to England anyway.

The rape was icky. (Yes "icky" is what I'm going for) not because it happened but because it was blatantly a set up for Mary to feel guilt free for having an affair with Conde who was already doing his best to sleep with her before that. Not to mention a catalyst Mary to behave terribly to Francis and then still come out a heroine. I loath bitching about female characters reactions to rape, and I'm really not trying to victim blame but it feels like Francis ended up doing 80% of the heavy lifting in their relationship (he was the only one acknowledging they had an actual one) for 2/3rds of this season and Mary magically sweeps in to claim 90% of the credit.

And Kenna can just go away now. Yep times are not kind to women, but there's a point at which "young lady with few options desperately trying to get security in form of high ranking, well off husband/lover" (ala S1 Greer) and "unrepentant shallow goldigger" is just unpleasant to watch.

Catherine and Elizabeth should definitely team up to successfully take down Mary, if they are going to never go to Scotland and the Conde situation was Darnley/Bothwell why can't Mary be captured and imprisoned by Liz I fleeing France not Scotland?

Exactly, to your entire post! The religion thing is especially silly, considering what we know of Mary IRL. And I used to enjoy Kenna's brashness -- now she just creeps me out, with her conniving to be with some junior King. I hope it works and she's off the show freezing her butt off and bored out of her mind in Syberistan or wherever it was.

ETA: Crappy ratings may have been the impetus behind that odd "come watch us again next year" pitch at the end by the producer (or whoever she was). I've never seen a show do that before.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Andromeda

[HunterHunted]

Actually all of the CW shows did the tune in next year spiel. I watch a shocking amount of CW shows. I'm basically the CW's bitch from 8-10pm and at 10pm I switch to being FX's.

[Andromeda]

Actually all of the CW shows did the tune in next year spiel. I watch a shocking amount of CW shows. I'm basically the CW's bitch from 8-10pm and at 10pm I switch to being FX's.

I do, too, actually. I've only seen Arrow's finale so far, but didn't see the "next year pitch." Now that CW's gone so sci-fi/fantasy, I am a big CW viewer (Arrow, Flash, Vampire Diaries, Supernatural, Reign).

Both Supernatural and Smallville were sent to Friday's to die.  Dawn O hated those shows because they attracted male viewers which interfered with her young girl brand network.  

 

Supernatural surprisingly survived (2 seasons) on Friday and when Mark P took over the network he moved it back to Wednesday's and paired it with S1 of Arrow.  Which made sense, SPN did well on Friday's and SPN was one of the few CW shows that appealed to both male/female viewers.

Thanks for the background on changes at the CW. I didn't realize Dawn What's-Her-Face had left. I'll never forget reading how she turned down this small talent show idea -- American Idol. LOL! Did you know the median age for CW viewers is now 43? As an older woman, I no longer feel so out of place. And guys (including my gson) are 45% of the audience. Probably not so much for Reign, though. Edited May 20, 2015 by Andromeda

[Andromeda]

Merged posts.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Andromeda

[missbonnie]

Both Supernatural and Smallville were sent to Friday's to die. Dawn O hated those shows.

Ah yes, Dawn O, there's a name I never want to hear again when it comes to having control over a show that I like.

[Eolivet]

I liked parts of this a lot. Toby Regbo did a great job with Francis -- I thought he seemed "off" the whole episode, so to find out he was dying was quite a blow. But banishing Catherine and letting Conde live seemed very convenient and plot contrivance-y (though I think Francis does better with a rival, so I can see why they weren't eager to part with Sean Teale). At least letting Conde live was consistently plot contrivance-y -- Francis has a long history of bending to Mary's whims. Banishing Catherine just felt like someone in the writer's room said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Catherine and Elizabeth team up? How can we make that happen?"

 

I like that we know Francis is dying -- it adds an urgency to all of his actions, and gives any Frary reunion a touch of bittersweetness. Vast minority, I know, but I have found Francis and Mary infinitely more fascinating as a couple since the fallout of the Conde storyline. I know that "happy couples don't have to be boring" is a common complaint, but I find Mary and Francis a more compelling, dynamic couple now than during all the lovey-dovey "Us against the world!" stuff from early in the season. Yes, they had to break out a bunch of nasty tropes to do it, but they finally feel like an adult relationship and not teen love.

 

I have no idea what the point of Delphine was unless Bash now has her "gift" because they were bound together, and this is how they get around a lack of Nostradamus next season.

 

Stephane Narcisse: Male Giggolo continues to be the actual best, and I want to see him balance his feelings for Lola with his own self-preservation now that Catherine no longer has power. Or see him turn against Francis and Mary, which would be awesome, as long as he gets the Conde treatment (i.e., gets to keep his head. Not sleep with Mary. WAIT! I'm not giving you any ideas, writers)

 

As for Kenna, I'm torn between thinking the writers wanted to show, as they did with Lola, how the only power women have is through their bodies, and this was just an incredibly awkard, poor execution of that idea or this was hatchet job payback because Caitlin Stasey was very vocal about not liking the show's rape storyline. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle, and that's sort of scary. It means the writing is so mediocre, there's almost no distinction between failed characterization and actual character assassination.

 

In the end, I feel like this whole season has been like Conde's escape plan: on one hand, it was so stupid, but on the other, it was so stupid that it almost came back around to being cleverly entertaining. Almost.

 

More clever, Reign -- less stupid. See you in season 3.

[ulkis]

Banishing Catherine just felt like someone in the writer's room said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Catherine and Elizabeth team up? How can we make that happen?"

 

I'm not gonna lie, I don't mind, heh. 

[TheGourmez]

 

This season has ruined all that. They weren't prepared for the religious issues. Mary being tolerant was laughable as that was her one main bargaining tool in life, that she was Catholic and would deliver a Catholic Scotland and a Catholic England. If she is tolerant (a stance I totally approve of IRL) she has little claim to England anyway.

 

Yep, it's her biggest claim to the English throne, her staunch Catholicism. So weird that they decided the best way to tarnish Mary's character wasn't through her actual historic flaws but through having her cheat on Francis again and again. Then again, the historic Mary also wasn't known for making the greatest romantic choices...

 

I'm surprised I'm still watching this show. I didn't expect to make it all the way through S2. The show's just so beautifully shot, I can't stop watching it. Costuming and cameraman are the real stars. I mean, I blinked and Kenna had "fallen in love" again and then saved Bash's life (I almost cheered for her then) and then the new guy was dead and she's pregnant and seducing a child king--I'm not supposed to try and follow that, right? I was momentarily excited about Delphine bringing mysticism back to the castle, but then she suddenly became evil and killing people and working Melisandre levels of bad blood magic---in the course of an episode! I'm now sincerely bummed she made it out of that fire.

 

I was thrilled to see Nostradamus for that split second with Francis. Good to know Franny's still dying, too. It makes his grief at his son's "death" that much more raw when it means he knew he wouldn't be leaving any heir behind.

 

Best scene of the finale for me was Kenna's goodbye with the other Ladies. For all its faults, this show does friendship pretty well.  

 

And it's just sooo pretty.