S07.E23: Hollander's Woods

[WendyCR72]

While I do have a Twitter account, it has cobwebs since I haven't actually been on that site in...months? A year? I don't know. But I won't fault NF if he spells a character name wrong. Script with her name in it or not, some default to their habits, and hey, some people are bad spellers. It doesn't make him an asshole or passive aggressive, IMO.

 

I think that issue is being oversensitive, but that's me. I'm giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. If the worst NF has done is misspell a name, he's doing better than other actors who broadcast on Twitter from where I sit!

[shapeshifter]

While I do have a Twitter account, it has cobwebs since I haven't actually been on that site in...months? A year? I don't know. But I won't fault NF if he spells a character name wrong. Script with her name in it or not, some default to their habits, and hey, some people are bad spellers. It doesn't make him an asshole or passive aggressive, IMO.

 

I think that issue is being oversensitive, but that's me. I'm giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. If the worst NF has done is misspell a name, he's doing better than other actors who broadcast on Twitter from where I sit!

Totally agree, plus, how did he spell it? With one T instead of 2? If so, that's just Twitter-verse spelling where you always shorten words because of the 140 character limit. Even if your tweet is well under 140 characters, you want to allow room for others to retweet and add their own characters.

[metaphor]

Totally agree, plus, how did he spell it? With one T instead of 2? If so, that's just Twitter-verse spelling where you always shorten words because of the 140 character limit. Even if your tweet is well under 140 characters, you want to allow room for others to retweet and add their own characters.

 

Nathan Fillion @NathanFillion  ·  4h 4 hours ago

You tell him, Beckette!!

 

Nathan Fillion @NathanFillion  ·  4h 4 hours ago

Beckette, drop the mic!

[verdana]

Nathan had it as "Beckette" I gather. 

 

The Poe's Pen (heh) career achievement award was a great way of focusing on Castle's career and reminding this guy has a life outside the precinct whilst also including Beckett into the mix and even better blending friends and family in there too although I found Jim's absence odd if Tory can make it why not dad? This is what I want to see more of on the show, Castle and Beckett doing something outside the precinct and personal to them, pity we had to wait until the finale to see them like this, let's hope more events appear that mean they have to get all dressed up next season. Stana did the love eye balls beautifully as usual and looked every inch the happy, proud wife and Castle was the adoring husband giving a heartfelt speech with a touching tribute to the love of his life. It was great to see him in his element looking sexy and well dressed for a change!

 

It's such a blessed relief to have things end happily for these two even with the risk of Kate's possible political career ready to put a spanner in the works. Wow things really were different finale time this season, it was such a welcome change to have these two acting like grown ups and discussing things properly. No "it's my life" crap any more. 

[shapeshifter]

Nathan Fillion @NathanFillion  ·  4h 4 hours ago

You tell him, Beckette!!

 

Nathan Fillion @NathanFillion  ·  4h 4 hours ago

Beckette, drop the mic!

Oh. So not abbreviated. Well, usually I add "ette" onto a word to either feminize it (like "dudette") or to be cute. But maybe he is just a bad speller. After all, NF is an actor, not a writer. ;>)

[verdana]

Yes, but, that was one moment that took me out of the scene while I snarked to myself: Yeah. Right. A child of economic privilege has a whole lifetime to "find her passion," and can keep trying things until she finds it. She will never get stuck in a job that she doesn't love just to support family or to survive. </end rant> But Castle is still a great dad.

Yeah I know it, she's not going to face that problem, lucky her! 

[madmaverick]

Pretty sure I've seen spelling/grammar mistakes from all the actors on twitter.  Maybe not the writers, but the actors definitely.  Who knows why Nathan spelled it that way he did but why always think the worst of people over a typo?  I find it sad that the takeaway for some is that he's a bad guy (as usual) and has some kind of vendetta going on because of a misspelling.  Give the guy a break.  Let's appreciate that he live tweeted yet another episode and roped the guys into a twitter live tweet party for fans to enjoy.  

[oberon55]

If Castle didn't like me I sure as hell wouldn't let him catch me at an abandoned house or barn. Just ask 3XK or porcelain mask guy.

[verdana]

My suggestion to Nathan Fillion for the S8 finale is don't live tweet heh, his finale tweets seemed cursed, didn't last season they cause a fuss? I bet he's had more than a few drinks by this point at his twitter party hence the slip. 

[WendyCR72]

I think some need to stop taking offense to every step NF takes. (No, this is not directed at anyone in particular here! But the man is always seen as Satan incarnate by a subset. Relax and enjoy, I say!)

[metaphor]

My suggestion to Nathan Fillion for the S8 finale is don't live tweet heh, his finale tweets seemed cursed, didn't last season they cause a fuss? I bet he's had more than a few drinks by this point at his twitter party hence the slip. 

 

Well, I don't know if this has actually caused a fuss like last season's. As a Beckett fan, I was wondering if there would be a mention, and kind of winced when I saw the repeated "Beckette"s. Maybe people are right and it means nothing, or maybe he's not feeling particularly charitable toward Stana/Beckett fans right now, with people flooding his mentions asking him about her contract, so he's poking fun. That's his prerogative. FWIW, I think Rob Hanning displays much more sarcasm toward fans on a regular basis. I still follow them both, though, and am mildly amused by their tweets from time to time. 

 

I was actually pleasantly surprised by how enthusiastic Nathan seemed about livetweeting this episode. I was on twitter before the episode aired and saw his announcement that he was inviting friends to join in. Then again, it was a good episode and definitely engendered positive reactions and tweets from fans to the cast and the writers. I guess Nathan figured he'd already experienced the worst when he livetweeted FBOW. 

[madmaverick]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I thought the episode wasn't bad, but certainly not terrific either.  It actually reinforced for me the fact that Milmar have very little in the creative tank left to offer to Castle.  If this had been a real series finale, I would have just found it okay.  Middling.  Like most of Milmar's recent work.  Yes, they tried to hit a lot of the notes that fans might have wanted to see in a series finale, but those efforts didn't quite hit the mark for me and the retreads felt a bit flat and stale.  All the "speeches" in the script weren't as strong as some of Milmar's efforts have in the past, because of the writing not the acting.

 

Beckett's big speech moment in her 'audition' didn't work for me at all.  I didn't care for the whole stupid set up for her speech with the cliched intimidation and the heroic fightback, and of course the actual plot point about her getting an offer into politics was ridiculous.  It was just all too bombastic and over the top.  Felt like I was watching a closing speech (fictional of course, way more dry in real life ;)) in a jury trial.  Out of place in a Castle episode.  Didn't feel *gasp* organic.  Like I've said before, I find Beckett's subtle and vulnerable moments (and Stana's acting) to be much more powerful than moments like this where she's 'in your face' at her antagonists.  

 

Castle's 'speech' to Alexis, while the advice was spot on, didn't quite hit the sweet spot for me either.  It wasn't terrible by any means, but it felt kind of like a 'you're amazing because you're my daughter' generic kind of speech.  And it felt like a rehash of the SLTS speech Castle gave Beckett about how even every mistake had led him to her.  Same feeling about with the award speech.  I was expecting more but it came off as a bit generic.  Like a not particularly memorable Oscar thank you speech instead of one which really hits it out of the park with something unique.  Maybe I'm expecting too much from Milmar. ;)  I think Alexis' graduation speech was a bit better.  And oh yeah, "brothers in arms" definitely didn't feel earned with Espo!

 

So I guess what I'm saying is that while the dialogue was perfectly serviceable in this episode, it didn't quite have the spark that I've seen in some of the best recent Castle episodes, displayed in some of TPW and RH episodes.  Maybe it was because it was a sombre episode rather than a lighthearted one.   Caskett were solid and sweet and they've nailed the mutual comforting and you know they are always going to be there for each other, no doubts... but I was missing a bit of a spark there as well.  Some lightheartedness?  Some passion?  Perhaps their scenes here didn't really lend themselves to that but it's still something I'm hoping for more of next season be it in dramatic or comedic episodes.

 

I did find the Hollander's Woods case to be more interesting than the run of the mill or fantastical COTW.  They could do this more psychological serial killer kind of arc for a 2 parter next season or even as their 'mythology' if they wanted.  The doctor killer wasn't a bad nemesis.  They could have stretched this out some more.  

 

Also loved the passing the gun shot, wedding band and all.  My mind did wonder about a terrible AU in that instant where Castle gets his throat slit as Beckett is right outside the barn door.  Of course they would still have to ultimately make it in this AU fanfic heh.

 

For emphasis, again, NO to any Senator job.  No also to that ugly brown sweater Beckett was wearing in that interview.  But yes to the tux and the red dress!  And yay for no dumb cliffhanger.

 

And boo to another Caskett kiss completely in silhouette!  Wouldn't be a Castle/Milmar episode without one, but it wasn't even Bowman directing!  If this had been a real series finale, I would have hoped for a darn better kiss as a sendoff.

Edited May 12, 2015 by madmaverick

[madmaverick]

I think some need to stop taking offense to every step NF takes. (No, this is not directed at anyone in particular here! But the man is always seen as Satan incarnate by a subset. Relax and enjoy, I say!)

 

This.  Nathan is misspelled as Satan sometimes ;) and even though he misspelled Beckett here, I don't think he would be misspelling Stana as Satan heh.  Seriously, I think if things were really so bad as some people imagine then they both wouldn't have expressed interest in doing another year.  And their colleagues wouldn't speak so warmly of both if they were producing a toxic work environment.  Stana herself said that she's enjoyed playing Beckett to NF's Castle, always, and it doesn't get more direct than that.

[McManda]

Re: Nathan misspelling "Beckett": I don't think it was intentional our that he was trying to make a passive aggressive point. I think it was just a mistake. I winced, sure, but mostly because I knew it was going to be the big deal of the day.

He was most certainly live tweeting from his phone. We don't know what gifs autocorrect looks like. Maybe he regularly adds -ette to words and autocorrect did it for him.

Give the man a break. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

[shapeshifter]

...repeated "Beckette"s...

Repeated misspellings usually mean the device you are using is "correcting" the word. And if this is live tweeting, the tweeter is not going to have time to go back and correct the device's corrections.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

See, when Kate was put on the hot seat, I started thinking. Bracken's getting back at her from prison! She's going to get fired! NOOO! lol

 

I thought they were setting her up to work SIU.....

[pepper]

 

The speech from Castle was sweet too, even though it was weird for him to be so kind about Ryan/Espo after they didn't believe him.  Maybe they apologized offscreen.

 

Castle agreed with them in the same scene where Beckett apologized. Just as they couldn't get a warrant, no DA would pursue a case based on a 30-year old voice identification from a child. So Beckett apologized for hurting his feelings by doubting him, but I think there's a distinction between saying there's no case to pursue and giving up on somebody. Everyone, including Castle, agreed the evidence wasn't there. So there's no need for him to continue to be angry with Ryan and Esposito. They're cops as well as his friends. Beckett had to allow him to break the law to catch the guy.

 

That said, it would be hard to argue that he wasn't acting as an agent of the police given the fact that he works with the NYPD daily and was in voice contact with a cop while he searched. And Beckett was the one who located the property he was trespassing to search. *hand-waves*

 

And shapeshifter Beckett was invited to run for NY State Senate, not US Senator from the State of NY. It's statewide not national and if she won, she'd be based in Albany, NY not Washington DC. What bothered me about that was the NYPD acting as agent for a particular political party...

[ae2]

My guess is that Beckett's almost blatant disregard for proper police procedure immediately after defending her past actions was set up for an "out" if they don't want to go the political route, or as possible scandal material if they do.

[Bort]

About the actual case… As I understood, the perp would go trolling for stranded (presumably female) motorists, ask them a few questions and if it seemed like someone would miss them, drive them to their destination and drop them off. Otherwise, it was slice and dice. Not to victim-blame, but how stupid were these women to tell some dude who picked them up that they were totally alone? It’s Stranger Danger 101. The correct answer is always: My father/husband/boyfriend is a cop -- huge, ex-Special Forces – if I’m even a second late, he calls out the cavalry…

[Brit Babe]

It appears I am in the minority as I wasn’t exactly enthralled by the episode as an episode or season finale or potential series finale. Don’t get me wrong it was okay and I enjoyed the Hollander’s Wood stuff better than 7x20 nonsense, but the episode just felt a little off.

First off, while the episode had hallmarks of a series finale, it just felt there was a lot of stuff missing and the ending was just crap. If the two leads had already said they were coming back by filming (which I believe that had already done long before) and the episode wouldn’t have been written that far in advance, a season 8 pick-up was a sure thing for ABC - the only reason I can think that they wrote it in a finale type way was a final curtain for Milmar maybe?

Hollanders Woods - they didn’t make a total balls-up of this story. Since it was muted in season 2 that something happened to Castle as kid I have been waiting for the story, however over my years my expectations have been lowered but as I said it was better than 7x20, it could have done with a 2 parter though.

Senator Beckett? Just no. She hates politics as witnessed by the DC debacle, and with the whole system against how she would run things? Silly. I did like her speech the 2 man committee but all those things they brought up - would get brought up in public and she would lose without a doubt. I did chuckle at the Nikki Heat reference though!

 

Castle's speech at the award show - it was better than I was expecting to be honest - however Castle's shout out to his "bros", Espo's a certifed dick and Ryan is slowly joining him.

 

Not to be toooo negative...but why does it annoy the hell out of me that NF doesn't know how to spell Beckett? It just seems so...passive aggressive. Come on, man. In seven years you haven't figured that out? Sigh.

For someone who, seems to make sure grammar and spelling are always just so and goes back to correct stuff; “Beckette” is such a faux mistake and the only times he seems to have mentioned KB/SK, it’s like he knew he had to but he’ll do it his way.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Brit Babe

[tankgirl73]

Some point by point thoughts:

 

-- Castle calling Espo and Ryan his 'brothers in arms' even when there's arguably bad blood.  Hey, he's just a classy dude.  They've had his back more often than not, and even if they haven't always been perfect, even if they've had their moments, they're still colleagues who respect each other in the end.  And even if in the end the boys (especially Espo) don't really deserve Castle's respect, what's he going to do in the speech, call them on it in public?  "And to the two boys here who I thought were my friends but didn't believe me when it came down to it, screw you.  I was right, nyah nyah."  Nope, he's got too much class.  He took the higher road.

 

-- Related: The unresolved offense over their not believing him about the voice.  As pepper explained above, yes he was hurt but he also realized that they -- and Beckett -- were right.  It was hard to believe and there was really nothing they could do, as police.  Clearly, he forgave them.

 

-- As soon as they said "let's go talk to the shrink" I had the whole thing figured out.  Down to the notion that Castle would immediately recognize the voice.  I'd already been wondering why Castle had NOT made a point about recognizing the first suspect's voice -- or not recognizing it, as the case may be.  "You know, I thought I would recognize the voice, but this guy doesn't sound like the voice in my memory.  I suppose his voice could be different now than 30 years ago, or maybe he was deliberately disguising his voice back then, or maybe my memory just isn't perfect, but it's still weird to not hear it at all."  So at least, I'm glad they didn't forget about that aspect of his memory of the incident.

 

-- Was I the only one who wondered (at least briefly) if the current case was a setup by the guys who 'took' him last summer?  The ones who apparently knew about Hollander's Woods even though he had never told anybody?  They still wanted to get back at him for the way he poked his nose back into things even though they pretended it was all hunky dory at the end, so they put together this crazy thing with the figure in the mask because they knew it would affect him.

 

-- The psycopath shrink's speech about the real mask being the face he's forced to wear, and the porcelain mask being the monster he knows himself to be -- that was legit creepy.  Nicely done.

 

-- The whole Hollander's Woods story.  I, like others, rolled my eyes when it was first explained/flashbacked.  Oh look, ickle Ricky Rodgers found Voldemort in the forbidden forest!  I expected it would be terrible.  But I confess, when they found the picture of the girl who had been murdered then and he grasped it and looked at it -- that's when I got hooked.  The idea of your personal boogeyman being real, confronting that -- meh.  But finding the identity, the actual human being-ness of this unidentified corpse in your memory.... that's potent stuff.

 

-- The gun thing was indeed cool.  I too liked the focus on the wedding ring. 

 

-- Whoever noticed the error about the weather in New Hampshire in February -- ROFL good catch.  I missed that.

 

-- Onto Beckette... er, Becket... er, Bekit... er... you know who I mean.  Almost as soon as the guys started ripping into her at her 'review' I was pretty sure it was a test.  It was too much.  Wouldn't much of this have been brought up before?  And even if the complaints against her were all legitimate, she would have been reprimanded in some way at the time and then life goes on.  If it was happening a lot, she'd be told that she's on thin ice and another infraction could cost her job.  It would not be an all of a sudden "oh by the way, we've never noticed this before but you're terrible and we think you shouldn't even be a cop". 

 

-- Senator Beckett?  I like the idea that it's a setup by Bracken's people to have her take the bait and then take her down, hard.  She'd end up so unpopular she couldn't even be Captain.  It's either that, or she decides it's not for her and takes the year to become Captain.  Season (series?) finale next year has a few options.  1) she takes captaincy of a different precinct.  Series finale so it doesn't matter that it would change the show.  It also opens the door for her to start a family and we never get the dreaded baby storyline but the final scene is of Kate and Rick heading off for some baby-making.  2) Gates retires or gets a promotion of her own, leaving the post in the 12th vacant for Kate.  Big scene with Kate reminiscing about Montgomery and his faith in her and now she's taking his chair and the full-circleness of it.  3) Gates finally gets a storyline of her own next year, gets some action, and dies heroically in the line of duty.  Again, Kate gets the office. 

 

-- In any non-senator storyline, Kate should certainly at least get an immediate promotion to Lieutenant in the season premiere.

 

-- No matter what, things are going to change -- spoken by Ryan and it's certainly true.  Leaves them open to whatever might happen next year in terms of contracts, writers and showrunners, and possible storylines.  Good setup.  Whether or not the payoff is any good remains to be seen, but a good setup.

 

-- Really did like the parallel notions of every mis-step, every wrong turn, every bad thing, not being detours but a straight line to who you are.  Expressly stated in Castle's speech to Alexis, and then clearly implied in his speech to the crowd about himself, and the conversation between Rick and Kate about each other.

 

-- Lots of nods to things fans wanted. Cheap and obvious fan service in some ways -- the swings, 'always', etc -- but certainly necessary for an episode that had to serve double duty as a potential series finale.  But one thing I really, really, really would have liked to see and missed.  I don't think Kate called him "Rick" even once.  It's been ages since she has.  It's always a BIG MOMENT when she does, there's something big and emotional happening.  So I don't want it thrown around meaninglessly.  But for instance when she's apologizing for the voice thing, and he's clearly upset, that would have been appropriate there. 

[readster]

I really enjoyed it but yes, I felt that we needed more set up for the crazy serial killer doctor. I like when Espo and Ryan said how the doctor was a family man and nothing really at all. Yeah, because over the course of how many decades have people like that turned out to crazy killers. Never change boys. I will say that scene in the office was very chilling when he explained about masks. I would have enjoyed this as a two parter and gotten a bit more explanation on his motivation, especially feeling he had to put crosses on these women's faces. Not to mention that in 30 years he slipped up now with one of the women getting away. The death scene and the shattering of the mask was great. Reminded me of when Tyson got shot and he turns to Castle and realizes that he lost in that moment. I really enjoyed the symbolism but yes, more like a series finale than season. Happy with no stupid cliffhanger. 

[S55]

What bothered me about that was the NYPD acting as agent for a particular political party...

 

Ditto. It's a one reason (for me) why I can't get behind her in politics (among other reasons). The way they went about it is just sleazy. Maybe that's true to life, but considering how much suspension of belief there already is on this show, for THIS to be grounded in any reality is just ridiculous IMO.  

Edited May 12, 2015 by S55

[S55]

-- Lots of nods to things fans wanted. Cheap and obvious fan service in some ways -- the swings, 'always', etc -- but certainly necessary for an episode that had to serve double duty as a potential series finale.  But one thing I really, really, really would have liked to see and missed.  I don't think Kate called him "Rick" even once.  It's been ages since she has.  It's always a BIG MOMENT when she does, there's something big and emotional happening.  So I don't want it thrown around meaninglessly.  But for instance when she's apologizing for the voice thing, and he's clearly upset, that would have been appropriate there. 

 

Agreed. I prefer "Rick" to "babe" 1000%. 

[stonehaven]

The best part of this episode was that Hodges, the suck up from CSI, was the killer...I recall there being speculation that Hodges might be a serial killer on CSI..I figured the casting was a slight nod to that...

Overall, a good episode...

[zen415]

Yes, that did feel like a possible series finale, and I also agree about the tone of it. It was kind of heavy. I think I'd prefer an exit for the show that's a bit more lighthearted, as the lightness was actually what drew me in initially, so I'm glad that's not the end. On the other hand, I recognize that this was written and completed before they knew there would be more, and I appreciate that the episode brought a sense of closure just in case.

 

 

Not sure how they got there (no literally, the rest of the ep was WTF for me) but I loved the ending.   It was a bit lowkey for this show.   But it was heartfelt.   They did become a family.   The 12th precinct is as important to him as his bio family.

 

I liked seeing all the family all dressed up and ready to celebrate, the muder call at the end. It did feel like a nostalgic series finale. I would have also preferred a more lighthearted finale but this works for me too. Ryan/Espo's anniversary, the family moment at the beginning that did not feel forced, Gates/Beckett, Castle/Beckett (swings, apartment) were all nice moments and I think this what this show does best: focusing on little moments that build up relationships. This is what I love about Castle.

 

I also loved the Beckett/Castle argument about the voice. I liked how she realized he really needed her to believe him and how he realized that she was only telling him that his testimony based on memories was not enough. It shows conflict (and its resolution) in a grown-up way and feels real and much less contrived than some of the other conflicts we were subjected to in past seasons.

 

The episode had some good moments and it touched on a lot of things that still needed to be addressed..but the Hollander's woods s/l really felt like it should have been at least a two parter, considering how key it was to Castle..it felt too rushed and almost blown off. A two hour finale might have been a good idea. 

 

Yeah, me too. Especially because they made such a big deal about how this affected Castle. I have to say I'm glad that there was not much tedious exposition in this case: it moved swiftly and allowed to focus on the main characters more. Maybe a two-parter would have dragged things too much? I was surprised Castle killed the psychiatrist at the end: I thought they were going to set him up as Castle's next nemesis, since 3XK is dead. 

 

See, when Kate was put on the hot seat, I started thinking. Bracken's getting back at her from prison! She's going to get fired! NOOO! lol

 

I fell for it. I totally thought she was getting fired or on probation for all the reckless things she did over the years. Please, "no Senator Beckettt" storyline, I don't see it.

 

I really enjoyed the episode tonight. Lots of great moments and no unnecessary character assassination from MilMar.

 

I think I'm suffering from PSTD after the 6x23 finale. I am extremely relieved after this episode. :)

 

Castle's 'speech' to Alexis, while the advice was spot on, didn't quite hit the sweet spot for me either.  It wasn't terrible by any means, but it felt kind of like a 'you're amazing because you're my daughter' generic kind of speech.  And it felt like a rehash of the SLTS speech Castle gave Beckett about how even every mistake had led him to her.  Same feeling about with the award speech.  I was expecting more but it came off as a bit generic.  Like a not particularly memorable Oscar thank you speech instead of one which really hits it out of the park with something unique. 

 

I think this my only complaint about this episode. I liked it but it was a bit generic. They did refer to the "you have no idea" and "always" but I found it may not have the same punch as the "partner in crime and life" of their vows, which I loved and found unique. Same with Alexis: his speech to her might have been more memorable if he had pointed out that she is amazing because she acknowledges her mistakes or is stubborn instead of the standard "you are already amazing" . I found the "brothers in arm" comment nice but it did not add up in this episode for the reasons everyone else pointed out.

Edited May 12, 2015 by zen415

[FlickerToAFlame]

Nathan regularly quotes and calls out fans for their misspellings and typos and is (like me) somewhat of a grammar nazi. This is why I think he's having a little fun with the fans and rumors.

I do realize the pettiness of this, but it just stuck out to me.

I'm definitely not one of the anti-Nathan people, he's my favorite actor. I just think he can be a douche sometimes, but hey, so can everyone.

[kbs]

I haven't seen the episode yet, but as for NF spelling Beckett wrong, I'm pretty sure it's his way of having fun and making fun of people overanalysing things.

[Elysium1973]

Oh. So not abbreviated. Well, usually I add "ette" onto a word to either feminize it (like "dudette") or to be cute. But maybe he is just a bad speller. After all, NF is an actor, not a writer. ;>)

Wasn't he going to be a teacher at some point? It seems like spelling is a key component to that work. I guess it's probably just as well he's an actor, where smarts don't amount to much (for actors in general).

I'm done talking about Fillion's spelling errors. I don't like the guy for a very specific reason and there's two people on this forum that know why. When faced with a particular situation he simply lacked class and acted like a 12 year old. To me, he continues to do so. You're a grown man. It's time to move on. Everyone else obviously has. And that's all I say. I don't have to like the guy. I tolerate him - which is totally my prerogative. And no amount of ganging up and belaboring the point will change my mind about it. That's my final thought on him.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Elysium1973

[verdana]

madmaverick. The dialogue in places did lack a certain zing and the speeches felt somewhat generic but this isn't something new, hence my desire for some creative changes at the top. As for the kiss in silhouette, what else do you expect from MilMar? It's their calling card, with any luck this was a final parting gift and next season they'll let the audience see them properly. 

 

A few things on rewatch:

 

Beckett really doesn't seem keen on taking up this new career opportunity does she? Flattered yes but that's not enough to want to enter the political arena where she's going to be put under the microscope to an intense degree along with her family. I think given her ambivalent attitude it would be the work of a moment to simply have her decide in the premiere of next season that she's decided against it for a whole host of obvious reasons. Better this than have her do a DC rerun and then realise she's not cut out for it and have to head back to the precinct. 

 

"Whatever you decide, I will back your play" I love Castle's loyalty and belief in her and Beckett is responding in kind without hesitation. Such a change from the picture of misery of them both at the swings in Watershed, when they couldn't have looked more dysfunctional as a supposed "loving" couple. 

 

I liked that they didn't go chasing after lots of suspects, they found Noah and that led them to the shrink and he was the guy, their constant stream of red herrings to interrogate which they drag out most episodes bores me, this was a welcome change. 

 

Beckett's speech during at 1PP got more irritating second time around, it was the worst moment of the episode no question and the point at which MilMar allowed their egos to be let loose. It can't work with her as a Senator, Castle would be a completely different show, what's Castle going to be doing going back to his PI work? 

 

"I expected this from these guys" yeah me too, they may have had a point but I can understand Castle's frustration building up with his "friends" and whilst it was a classy move to praise them I find Ryan is acquiring Espo's irritating attitude. I hope that's another thing that get rectified next season and we stop the pissy behaviour for no reason and they bring back that genuine friendly vibe they used to have with each other. 

 

 

[pepper]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that it was winter in New Hampshire, the trees in the woods had all their leaves and Ricky Rodgers didn't seem to be feeling the cold. 

[FlickerToAFlame]

I wonder if any significance will be made of this being Castle's first kill. Probably not due to the hiatus usually equalling a time gap, but I wish it had been mentioned. Over 150 cases and he had never killed anyone. I can't imagine it wouldn't affect him.

[madmaverick]

I wonder if any significance will be made of this being Castle's first kill. Probably not due to the hiatus usually equalling a time gap, but I wish it had been mentioned. Over 150 cases and he had never killed anyone. I can't imagine it wouldn't affect him.

I was wondering the same.  In reality, of course it would have a huge impact.  On Castle?  It probably won't get a mention like Beckett's PTSD.  Could be hard for them to deal with a serious, heavy issue like that in the premiere if they want some lighthearted fun to reel viewers back.  They should have touched on it in the episode in the aftermath, right outside the barn or in the bedroom scene.  Shame it probably won't be explored as I think that's an interesting repercussion for Castle's character to deal with, and something that's always been a possibility in theory since his involvement in police work, in Beckett's life, but not a reality until now.  I would have liked a close up shot of Caskett outside the barn after the kill just to see both their expressions.

 

Would one have temporary hearing issues from firing at such close range?  I was waiting for Beckett to fire at the door to break it actually.

[tankgirl73]

I was actually trying to remember if he actually had killed anyone directly before and I couldn't be sure.  If it *is* his first kill, I do hope they follow up on a bit of PTSD for him next season.  Not only was it a real kill, it was SUPER close range and while his own life was within inches of being taken as well.  He definitely seemed very stunned by it at that moment, but his later stunned-ness could be taken as either 'I killed a man' or 'my demons were real and now they're gone... whoa...'.  The first is soul-shattering, the second is still jarring but in a very different way.  And it wasn't made perfectly clear which it was -- or even if it was both.  I understand there wasn't really time to deal with the aftermath, they had to get on to the happy ending and that's fine.  But I do hope there's some followup.  It doesn't have to be episodes and episodes of him in a dark place and scared to go into a crime scene and having nightmares for months etc.  It can just be a few moments now and then, or a good scene of him talking it out with Beckett, and she shares her own feelings and memories of the first time she killed someone, etc etc.  It doesn't have to be a big thing, just an acknowledgment.

[verdana]

Hopefully the new showunners might start addressing these things, when someone suffers a serious trauma (like killing someone) it should make a difference not only to that person but to the family.  Castle for too long has allowed the characters to forget all too quickly these matters and after a while it's unbelievable that they don't have any permanent emotional scarring or suffer delayed shock.

 

Would one have temporary hearing issues from firing at such close range?  I was waiting for Beckett to fire at the door to break it actually.

 

Guns are loud (on TV and most movies they never seem that way) and I'm also surprised his ear drums didn't sustain some damage and he didn't suffer harm from the gun being so close when he fired.  Yeah I was wondering why the hell she didn't do that when it was clear it wouldn't open. 

Edited May 12, 2015 by verdana

[madmaverick]

But I do hope there's some followup.  It doesn't have to be episodes and episodes of him in a dark place and scared to go into a crime scene and having nightmares for months etc.  It can just be a few moments now and then, or a good scene of him talking it out with Beckett, and she shares her own feelings and memories of the first time she killed someone, etc etc.  It doesn't have to be a big thing, just an acknowledgment.

 

Agreed.  It would be good if this is another (unfortunate) thing that Caskett can bond and support each other over.  Beckett's been there so she can definitely help Castle out with this.  There's a good character scene in there somewhere and there are organic ways to write one in if the writers want to.

 

When the guy had his knife on Castle's neck and was slicing into it already, it looked like anything more and the carotid artery would have been sliced into and Castle would be a goner.  Very close shave there.  His neck was bleeding as he came out of the barn.  Actually thought the bad guy was stabbing Castle somewhere else before as he made some stabby motions but I guess not.

[pennben]

I personally hope that it's not addressed and all will be left in this episode.  I want next season to get back to the fun that this show should be and has been. 

Edited May 12, 2015 by pennben

[Lamb18]

I thought the episode was going to end with Castle's neck bleeding and we'd have to wait until next fall to see what happens. I thought he killed someone several seasons ago, but I don't remember for sure.

 

Maybe the state senator thing is an "out" if Stana does not sign. Beckett is off working on her politics and the season starts w/either a replacement for Beckett at the precinct, or Ryan or Esposito getting promoted, and Castle has to start over on his partnership w/the precinct.

 

I did see a bandaid on Castle's neck when he was getting ready for the awards ceremony.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Lamb18

[Julie23]

Please, for the love of all your fans, NO politics for Beckett(e). If the show runners want to see how badly this direction will be, please review the forums for The Good Wife for this year. I don't think there was a single fan that liked the "running for SA" story line, and they lost a lot of viewership because of it. (and other things)/ 

That direction would ruin this show for me... I watch it for police procedural, not politics. 

[madmaverick]

I thought the episode was going to end with Castle's neck bleeding and we'd have to wait until next fall to see what happens.

 

This is what we would have gotten if it hadn't been Milmar's swansong!  Castle bleeding out from the neck and gasping "Beckett(e).." melodramatically.  End scene.  

 

Season premiere by Marlowe: we find out that Castle has mysteriously disappeared from the barn!  3 months later, he's discovered floating in a dinghy in the ocean with a bandaid on his neck and a porcelain mask on his face. 

[femmefan1946]

In reality, of course it would have a huge impact.  On Castle?  It probably won't get a mention like Beckett's PTSD.

Canadian news channels are running a story on the Parliament Hill shooting of a gunman by Kevin Vickers , Sargeant At Arms.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/kevin-vickers-calls-day-after-parliament-hill-shooting-loneliest-moment-of-my-life-1.3069192

He tells us that after the shooting he awoke in tears and had trouble sleeping.

And this is a trained police officer (RCMP) with many years experience who was touted as a hero by all his compatriots. (Properly. He saved many lives.)

 

On a slightly cheerier topic, I think they bought a light bulb. Certainly, the lighting was smoothing the faces this time around.

And, shockingly, the villain was not seen at the 12 minute mark, where he usually shows up.

[Starscream]

The best part of this episode was that Hodges, the suck up from CSI, was the killer...I recall there being speculation that Hodges might be a serial killer on CSI..I figured the casting was a slight nod to that...

Overall, a good episode...

I kept thinking how disappointed his hero Grissom would be.

 

 

I swear, when Castle said "what kind of son doesn't check on his own mother" right into the camera, I thought that it was going to turn out that Martha was going to be a victim or roped into the finale cliffhanger.

[KaveDweller]

Hopefully the new showunners might start addressing these things, when someone suffers a serious trauma (like killing someone) it should make a difference not only to that person but to the family.  Castle for too long has allowed the characters to forget all too quickly these matters and after a while it's unbelievable that they don't have any permanent emotional scarring or suffer delayed shock.

 

Guns are loud (on TV and most movies they never seem that way) and I'm also surprised his ear drums didn't sustain some damage and he didn't suffer harm from the gun being so close when he fired.  Yeah I was wondering why the hell she didn't do that when it was clear it wouldn't open.

I think she didn't shoot because she was worried about Castle getting hit with a stray bullet.

Everyone thought Castle killed Jerry Tyson for two years, so in theory he's already went through this.

[pepper]

On SK's Facebook account. So one way or the other, she'll be back. I hope just with a promotion, not as a politician.

 

 

I'm so pleased to announce that, after talking with our new show runners, Terence Paul Winter and Alexi Hawley (both of whom I've had the pleasure of working with on the show before) I'm excited about the future plans for Beckett and delighted to be returning for a Season 8 of Castle.
x Stana

Edited May 12, 2015 by pepper

[verdana]

Castle: Hollander’s Woods – A Good Cop/Bad Cop Review

 

Kate Beckett a senator? I absolutely hate the idea and that the writers stuck this oddball piece of crap storyline into the show. It doesn’t fit. It’s out of character. And it’s downright dumb. Someone must have seen another shark that needs jumpin’.

 

[BooksRule]

Grrrrr!  My computer hiccupped and away went my post.  Here I go again:

 

I liked the final scene, although I kept waiting for Castle to get shot while at the podium, or the building to explode or something (I forgot that this would have been filmed before they knew they were renewed, so it could have been a series finale).  I'm okay with Beckett running for office or being promoted if the next season is the last.  If it goes on any longer, then definitely no senate, only promotion.

 

I love Susan Sullivan and I hope she gets a new show as soon as the final 'Castle' episode is wrapped.

 

Loved this line:  'It looks like he uses this for storage.  Creepy, creepy storage.'

Edited May 12, 2015 by BooksRule

[verdana]

Marije ‏@marijtje_85  45m45 minutes ago

As promised #castle swing pics. Unfortunately they didn't all turn out great... #Caskett

https://twitter.com/marijtje_85/status/598189883430146048

 

[FlickerToAFlame]

Thanks for the link, verdana. Here is a pic of Nathan and Stana just after his swing broke (I guess it was minor and he was ok):

@marijtje_85: The side view of Stana standing is where Nathan's swing just broke http://t.co/sj1qE4yd4M

[madmaverick]

Thanks for the pics!  Finally some bts of them together.  No cgi as far as I can see heh.  Fans really capture everything these days. Not even a broken swing and fall would go unseen.  The swing was set up by them and not an actual swing in the park, right?   At least he wasn't badly hurt and can still tweet about it.  

 

I do like the swings but the swing rail always gets in the way of our view when they kiss.

[madmaverick]

I prefer "Rick" to "babe" 1000%.

 

Me three!!

 

I'd sooner believe those goons from "The Party" were setting Beckett up fI think I'd prefer an exit for the show that's a bit more lighthearted, as the lightness was actually what drew me in initially, so I'm glad that's not the end.

 

 

Now that it appears they got an uptick in viewers for the finale, let's hope they don't squander any goodwill and interest earned in the premiere.  I would like to see them start with a classic, lighthearted Castle episode.  Or a special version of one like Caskett solving a murder on holiday or something.  Something special outside of the precinct.  Shut down the political career idea already and just put Beckett on the Captain track.  No delving into the disappearance mythology until later in the season, if at all, unless they can do it well.or something

 

Maybe if Milmar wanted Beckett to be on a grand stage, they should have made Johanna Beckett someone 'bigger'.  A Senator, a Supreme Court Justice, Ambassador to the UN, hell VP or President if they really wanted to. ;)  Then they could have had golden child Beckett give up her blessed life, become a cop, find justice for mum and wonder if she's disappointing her by becoming a cop or to follow in her hallowed footsteps.  They could have flirted with the political angle all along and the whole grand scale JB conspiracy murder by would be President Bracken would have been more fitting.   As it is, I miss the simpler days when JB's murder conceivably was just a mugging gone wrong, a being in the wrong place at the wrong time kind of thing.  Sucks but it happens.  May have been more poignant and resonant that way than the mombatross is became.  

 

I loved it when Castle called Beckett 'extraordinary' in S2 and she reacted like she couldn't believe it.  I like it when respected peers like Montgomery or Gates praise Beckett.  But someone powerful coming out of the blue telling Beckett that she's the best thing ever and destined for bigger things just doesn't do it for me or mean as much.  Billionaire Vaughn, DC guy, and now these politicos, it's the same script over and over again.  Yes, I get it, you want to hit me over the head with your anvil about how Beckett is amazing.   Less is more, writers.  And real extraordinariness from a character doesn't need to be pointed out; it should just be felt.

 

Beginning to feel a bit bad for neglected Jim Beckett.   Beckett always references her mum when talking about role models and her childhood.  What about dear old Dad who couldn't even get a seat at the table heh?

 

Would have loved if Caskett had shared a sweet, joyful moment with each other when they'd each heard the good news about their careers, the award and the captain's exam results.  I love it when they are each other's best cheerleader.  The swings scene was nice, but the 'whatever you decide' was a bit of a retread and too close a reminder of the terrible proposal cliffhanger, also courtesy of Milmar.  I do like the swings as a special spot for them, but I also think it's time for them to discover some new special spots and customs for them as a couple.

 

Connelly had the same words Gina did when she introduced Castle in the pilot.  Gina should have been there but... *handwave*.  And I see they went with Beckett's preferred ruggedly handsome portrait option.  Mine too.  That award still looks like a murder weapon in waiting to me.

 

I guess what stuck out the most to me were Espo and Ryan's doubts about Castle's story, and Castle's calling them out on it. Since the matter wasn't really resolved, I was pretty dubious about that whole "brother in arms" part of his speech.

 

 

I liked Castle calling them out on it though I felt a bit sad for him that it's what he's come to expect from the guys.  I get that in this case they might have doubted Castle's recollection, but it's been instances in the past where they've doubted his character that I've had a real issue with.  Like when they believed Castle would willingly leave Beckett and his family behind on their wedding day, or doubted his ability to recover Alexis in Paris, or even thought for a second that Castle could murder anyone and string them up the ceiling.  So a second later Espo said he didn't really believe that but...  would he be there till the wheels fall off for Castle as a brother in arms like he would for Ryan?  I don't know about that.  And it's too bad I feel this doubt when the relationship between the team only should have grown more solid by now.  Caskett solidly have each other's backs but I don't know about the boys and Castle.  I'm not even sure Esposito respects Castle's abilities as a writer and a cop helper.  It would be good to see the boys apologise to Castle some time when they are wrong about something and he was right, but I doubt it's ever going to happen.

 

 

-- maybe old cronies of Bracken seeking revenge -- than I would them being legit and getting permission to do something like that.  For a moment I thought they were going to tell her they were vetting her to become chief of police, but that's maybe even more ridiculous.

 

 

I would have found another Bracken instigated conspiracy believable than what we got.  Not that I would have trusted Marlowe to write a season long Bracken conspiracy arc well at all.  At this point, I'm not going to be surprised if Beckett tells Castle she once had the dream of becoming the first female President as well.  (Not that there's anything wrong with that, and I hope the U.S. does get its first one soon.)   Beckett's going to be the youngest NYPD Captain, youngest Chief of D, youngest Police Commissioner given the writers' current track record.  Don't need to be a time traveller to predict that! ;)

 

Sometimes it's more interesting to have characters fail and then get up again.  If it's great successes and smooth sailing all the time, then characters can become too Mary Sue and less interesting.  I actually wouldn't mind if the team makes an error of some kind and they're put on filing duty or another unpleasant task for a week by Gates, and solve a murder in the course of that.

 

Others have already touched on the ridiculousness of a political party using the NYPD for their own ends, as well as the irony of Beckett saying she respects the law and then conveniently advising Castle to basically perform an illegal search as her agent shortly thereafter.  Handwaves with difficulty.  Guess i's best not to examine legalities closely on Castle, or any TV show for that matter.  The good guys won!  That's all that matters. ;)

Edited May 12, 2015 by madmaverick