Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[topanga]

14 hours ago, Quof said:

Okay, my comrades in Family Dysfunction, riddle me this.   My mother has taken to sending passive aggressive emails, with misplaced and overused ellipses.   "Thank you for the Christmas gifts.  I'm very ... grateful."   "Neighbor Bill has cancer.  It's not ... good."

What the Hell?   Is she having word finding difficulties? Should I suggest a cognitive assessment?   Is she trying to sound pensive and thoughtful?   Is she attention seeking (that's usually the answer)?  

I agree with other posters that she probably wants to add a dramatic pause to her sentences. Does she talk this way IRL? e.g., "I talked to Bill's wife the other day. He's got [dramatic pause] cancer!"

But the Christmas gift message? I'm not sure about that one. Was she saying that she didn't like the gift? Does she get easily offended? I hate to give gifts to one of my sisters because she always manages to interpret any gift as criticism. If I give her shower gel or body lotion, it's because I don't like the way she smells. If I give her a book, it's because I think she's dumb and isn't well-read enough.  The easily-offended are best served by gift cards, if you choose to keep giving them gifts at all. 

[JTMacc99]

13 minutes ago, topanga said:

I agree with other posters that she probably wants to add a dramatic pause to her sentences. Does she talk this way IRL? e.g., "I talked to Bill's wife the other day. He's got [dramatic pause] cancer!"

So I was going to say something just like this.  I like to use the ellipse when I've got my Captain Kirk going in my head. I also like to use it for suspense.

And this also reminds me of a pet peeve which I will take over there...

[auntlada]

The Christmas gift ellipsis makes me think (for no real reason) of "While You Were Sleeping," when Joe Jr. tells Lucy, "Nice (long pause while he apparently tries to think of a word that isn't 'breasts') sweater."

Edited February 8, 2017 by auntlada

[topanga]

35 minutes ago, auntlada said:

The Christmas gift ellipsis makes me think (for no real reason) of "While You Were Sleeping," when Joe Jr. tells Lucy, "Nice (long pause while he apparently tries to think of a word that isn't 'breasts') sweater."

So is your guess that she wasn't really grateful? If so, that pretty crappy. Say 'thank you' and move on. 

[backformore]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 5:32 PM, Quof said:

Okay, my comrades in Family Dysfunction, riddle me this.   My mother has taken to sending passive aggressive emails, with misplaced and overused ellipses.   "Thank you for the Christmas gifts.  I'm very ... grateful."   "Neighbor Bill has cancer.  It's not ... good."

What the Hell?   Is she having word finding difficulties? Should I suggest a cognitive assessment?   Is she trying to sound pensive and thoughtful?   Is she attention seeking (that's usually the answer)?  

The Christmas gift thing made me laugh.  Like "I'm very confused, no offended, no, pissed off, no,  it's the thought that counts, so I'm ...grateful.  I guess."

The cancer one would make sense if it was "it's.... not good."  I read that as a dramatic pause, but not a very good one.   But "it's not...good" makes no sense. 

[Quof]

Thanks for the theories.  I think my original thought, that she's attention seeking, is the right one. She's practically pathological that way.

For the record, the Christmas gifts were awesome.  Trust me, I put a lot of time, energy, thought (and money) into selecting gifts.    I do good gifts.   

[backformore]

22 hours ago, Quof said:

 I think my original thought, that she's attention seeking, is the right one. She's practically pathological that way.

I get it.  My mom was the same way.  She would invent illnesses to get us to feel sorry for her.

I recall a time when she thought she had lupus, told everyone she had it.  Her symptoms weren't consistent with it, but she insisted she had been diagnosed.  A year later, she was hospitalized for something else, and I mentioned it to the doctor.  He said, no she didn't have lupus.  I asked about a number of other ailments - nope, she didn't have ANY of the rare conditions she had told us she had been diagnosed with over the years. The conversation was in front of her, I wanted her to understand that she needed to stop lying about her ailments, because it could be detrimental to her treatment.

[Quof]

Quote

She would invent illnesses to get us to feel sorry for her.

My mother is also a big ole hypochondriac.  Years ago, when a doctor confirmed she had actually had a heart attack, she said "See, I told you I wasn't feeling well," to which the entire family replied "But you say that every day."

[DeLurker]

5 hours ago, backformore said:

The conversation was in front of her, I wanted her to understand that she needed to stop lying about her ailments, because it could be detrimental to her treatment.

But it is also important for you to know so you can accurately relate your family history for your doctors.  I guess they need to add a question for family medical history: hypochondriac.

My Mom has traditionally been the opposite.  If she is not feeling well and is concerned it might be something significant, she won't complain about it and won't go to the doctor.  The logic of that is if a doctor doesn't diagnose it, than I don't have it.  When she did go to the doctor she would answer questions truthfully though.  And now that she is getting older she does go to the doctor more frequently.

My oldest brother, Ivy league and generally a Spock-like approach to living, surprised me a few years ago.  He had a serious health issue that flared up (which I forgot what it was) and was to the point that he could barely walk.  Instead of calling 9-1-1, he insisted on driving to the ER even though he had to go down his house stairs on his butt.  My SIL drove him - he at least allowed that concession.  He ended up in the hospital for a few days.

When I asked my SIL why the hell he didn't call for an ambulance she said he was so fixated on not calling 9-1-1 she thought he would stroke out or have a heart attack if she did.

[NutMeg]

47 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

But it is also important for you to know so you can accurately relate your family history for your doctors.  I guess they need to add a question for family medical history: hypochondriac.

My Mom has traditionally been the opposite.  If she is not feeling well and is concerned it might be something significant, she won't complain about it and won't go to the doctor.  The logic of that is if a doctor doesn't diagnose it, than I don't have it.  When she did go to the doctor she would answer questions truthfully though.  And now that she is getting older she does go to the doctor more frequently.

My oldest brother, Ivy league and generally a Spock-like approach to living, surprised me a few years ago.  He had a serious health issue that flared up (which I forgot what it was) and was to the point that he could barely walk.  Instead of calling 9-1-1, he insisted on driving to the ER even though he had to go down his house stairs on his butt.  My SIL drove him - he at least allowed that concession.  He ended up in the hospital for a few days.

When I asked my SIL why the hell he didn't call for an ambulance she said he was so fixated on not calling 9-1-1 she thought he would stroke out or have a heart attack if she did.

My mum is somehow the same, I stil don't understand why the idea of a hospital distresses her so. Last summer, she went through "something", that she calls extreme fatigue, checked in briefly in ER during the night she passed out, but got in tears when I suggested she stayed in the hospital for more checkup. Btw, she still works crazy hours in the business she started but she's 72 and now married to someone who raises not only my antenae but also those of her best friends for decades that she's now cutting off.  

[JTMacc99]

3 hours ago, DeLurker said:

My oldest brother, Ivy league and generally a Spock-like approach to living, surprised me a few years ago.

Heh. For the first 80% of my life I was VERY Spock-like in my approach to living.  Then I let the human side have a say, which, turns out is more of a Dr. McCoy in my case.  So essentially I have the endless banter between Spock and McCoy running my inner dialogue. It's why I have an amused look on my face for no reason and why I do such a good eyebrow pop.

I fall in the "if a doctor doesn't diagnose it, than I don't have it" camp. I think I got that one from my Dad.  But when my mom got rheumatoid arthritis and needed to see a doctor regularly, both of my parents started to embrace what doctors could do for them. I'm still just hoping to get myself to pick up the phone and make myself an appointment for a physical. I had a health screening for insurance, so I know that all basic levels of things they measure are in good shape, but it's not the same thing.  

[DeLurker]

2 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

I do such a good eyebrow pop.

Is it the single eyebrow?  Because if it is, I am fully jealous.  I spent years trying to be able to do it, but it just isn't going to happen.  I had to settle for being able to do a Billy Idol lip snarl.

[JTMacc99]

34 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

Is it the single eyebrow?

Yep. Not quite Phil Keoghan good, but good enough to make my point.

37 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

had to settle for being able to do a Billy Idol lip snarl.

Hee!  And exactly what situation calls for that?

[ratgirlagogo]

20 hours ago, Quof said:

My mother is also a big ole hypochondriac.  Years ago, when a doctor confirmed she had actually had a heart attack, she said "See, I told you I wasn't feeling well," to which the entire family replied "But you say that every day."

Hoo boy.  That is classic. So I assume you've seen this:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g34345-d106028-i53300991-Key_West_Cemetery-Key_West_Florida_Keys_Florida.html

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/22541

And this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/southern_counties/3742443.stm

Edited February 11, 2017 by ratgirlagogo

[DeLurker]

19 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

20 hours ago, DeLurker said:

had to settle for being able to do a Billy Idol lip snarl.

Hee!  And exactly what situation calls for that?

I was the youngest of 5 - there were numerous occasions where the lip snarl was called for.  And to amuse my friends, including the one who had mastered the single eyebrow pop.

[BrittaBot]

I used to beat myself over and over thinking I was doing something wrong with my family but I've stopped.

My family was fine growing up, nothing bad. I was really close with my brother when I was younger but that drifted apart for a number of reasons. Nothing really serious, it was mostly the same reasons friends drift apart.

My family just has this weird issue of like, acting like we should all be best friends and constantly be together and anything less than that means "I hate them" or something. It's actually odd. I'm at the point where I only regularly message my mom or call her because she doesn't do that. I don't have as much to talk to about with my brother but I will text him too.

My sister and my dad are very similar and I'm at the point where I'm like whatever. My sister was the type growing up where (I'm in the middle, she's 3 years older, and I'm 3 years older than my brother) we would do family outings, even in high school, but she was too good for that and would stay home. She had a serious car accident right before I left for college (her bf was drunk and high off his ass) but after giving my parents' panic attacks for a year because she would lie to them about seeing him, she had a "come to Jesus moment"  and went completely in the other direction. Like she is obsessed with my parents. Which is fine, it's her right, I don't really care, but she acts like such a snot to me for not being like that. I'm in my late 20s so sorry, it's not normal for me to want to live at home still. She will text me on my parents' birthdays saying "it's mom's birthday, you know." Yes, I know. She's not doing it to be helpful. And I always say to my husband, "do you think she texts everyone else on my birthday and says 'it's Brittabot's birthday you know." 

My dad always used to make me cry and upset for essentially being an introvert. Last time is when I basically said fuck it. I was out with him and my mom and everything was fine. No one was arguing, a good time was being had. Literally out of nowhere he started arguing/yelling at me about why I don't invite him over our house ever. He literally can't understand that we don't really invite ANYONE ever. We are private people who like having the house to ourselves. When we do have people over occasionally, it's our friends. I just gave up after that. It's like why are you picking an argument over nothing? On that same note, I can never even go out to lunch or shopping with my mom by herself because my dad will always come. Even times when I assumed it would just be the two of us, somehow he's always there.

I used to feel bad about it but now I'm like what am I doing wrong? I'm just living my life, not hurting anyone. I think the problem is I'm way more independent and introverted than my 2 siblings and he can't understand it.

[ari333]

1 hour ago, BrittaBot said:

I used to beat myself over and over thinking I was doing something wrong with my family but I've stopped.

My family was fine growing up, nothing bad. I was really close with my brother when I was younger but that drifted apart for a number of reasons. Nothing really serious, it was mostly the same reasons friends drift apart.

My family just has this weird issue of like, acting like we should all be best friends and constantly be together and anything less than that means "I hate them" or something. It's actually odd. I'm at the point where I only regularly message my mom or call her because she doesn't do that. I don't have as much to talk to about with my brother but I will text him too.

My sister and my dad are very similar and I'm at the point where I'm like whatever. My sister was the type growing up where (I'm in the middle, she's 3 years older, and I'm 3 years older than my brother) we would do family outings, even in high school, but she was too good for that and would stay home. She had a serious car accident right before I left for college (her bf was drunk and high off his ass) but after giving my parents' panic attacks for a year because she would lie to them about seeing him, she had a "come to Jesus moment"  and went completely in the other direction. Like she is obsessed with my parents. Which is fine, it's her right, I don't really care, but she acts like such a snot to me for not being like that. I'm in my late 20s so sorry, it's not normal for me to want to live at home still. She will text me on my parents' birthdays saying "it's mom's birthday, you know." Yes, I know. She's not doing it to be helpful. And I always say to my husband, "do you think she texts everyone else on my birthday and says 'it's Brittabot's birthday you know." 

My dad always used to make me cry and upset for essentially being an introvert. Last time is when I basically said fuck it. I was out with him and my mom and everything was fine. No one was arguing, a good time was being had. Literally out of nowhere he started arguing/yelling at me about why I don't invite him over our house ever. He literally can't understand that we don't really invite ANYONE ever. We are private people who like having the house to ourselves. When we do have people over occasionally, it's our friends. I just gave up after that. It's like why are you picking an argument over nothing? On that same note, I can never even go out to lunch or shopping with my mom by herself because my dad will always come. Even times when I assumed it would just be the two of us, somehow he's always there.

I used to feel bad about it but now I'm like what am I doing wrong? I'm just living my life, not hurting anyone. I think the problem is I'm way more independent and introverted than my 2 siblings and he can't understand it.

Wow. This post resonates with me so much. I was always chastised for being who I am. Im somewhat of an introvert, shy , quiet, especially compared to my brother. I can form relationships that are meaningful and dear to me and that last for years, but that apparently doesn't count. At least you realized these things in your 20s. I wish I had. It would have saved me A LOT of grief and pain.

I think the only person who believes me when I talk about what my family does is my boyfriend of 7 yrs bc he witnessed it . The things they do and say are just simply unbelievable. If I hadn't seen it or heard it myself, I'd have a hard time  believing it .

I asked my father not to put me on speaker phone without telling me that I'm on speaker phone. He said, "well, I thought you could discern for yourself if it's on speaker." Um.... NO I CAN'T. Please tell me; or better yet, don't do it.  "

He finally said something that shocked me. It did not shock me because of the content of the words, but the fact  that he acknowledged any of it at all. THAT was the shocker part. He said that my mother gets satisfaction.... satisfaction - out of hurting me with words and comments. Well, jackpot. I have felt that for fucking YEARS, but no one would ever actually  admit  it and I was always told that I was "too sensitive." I told him that I'm old, sick and tired and I've had enough, so I'm going to tell her that. STOP IT. (She was not on the phone at the time.) I am trying to be forgiving and compassionate, but I don't want to be walked on anymore. 

She is always throwing the Bible in my face, figuratively. I told her that maybe she should read it herself bc her behavior  and vindictiveness and holding a grudge for small infractions or even perceived infractions... well.. what would Jesus do.   And by "infractions" I mean , for example, daring to choose my own man, choose my own career.  Choose my own religion or lack of AS AN ADULT. How dare I !!! [/rant] This is the tip of the iceberg, but I'll stop here.

[BrittaBot]

ari333, that sucks. I feel like it's a hard thing to explain because on the surface nothing is "really wrong." But that's sort of my point with my family. Why create problems where there isn't? It's part of the reason I get along better with my mom and my brother. Like I know my mom wishes I still went to church or visited more often or whatnot, but she realized that bugging me about it actually gets the exact opposite reaction.

It took me a while to get here though believe me. I used to think I was doing something wrong. And then I thought about it and said: "What? What am I doing wrong?" My dad used to get really mad when we were arguing and I would start crying and he would yell at me to stop crying. Back then I would sort of be like: well, I should be able to argue without crying. But looking back on it, there is no reason to shame me for crying. It's a normal reaction. You should read the book "Quiet" by Susan Cain. It's not a self-help book but after I read it, it really helped me understand why I am the way I am and that my reaction to things is normal and that I don't have to apologize for it.

This part of your post resonated with me:

Quote

I think the only person who believes me when I talk about what my family does is my boyfriend of 7 yrs bc he witnessed it . 

I've been with my now-husband for 12 years (high school sweethearts). Something that drives me batshit when I think about it too hard is that my dad thinks my husband has brainwashed me. As someone who considers herself a feminist, whose husband is a feminist...I mean, I guess it's the epitome of why our relationship is the way it is (father and me). Because he doesn't know me at all. You mean I changed as a person and my beliefs have changed since I was 15 after going to college and law school? Gee, that's really weird. I didn't know I was supposed to have the exact same point of view as I did when I was 15. He just blames it on my husband because we've been together that whole time. Which AGAIN, is so fucking insane because it's saying that I can't make up my mind as a human, as a woman, and am influenced by what the male in my life thinks. If you knew anything about me, then....

[ari333]

59 minutes ago, BrittaBot said:

ari333, that sucks. I feel like it's a hard thing to explain because on the surface nothing is "really wrong." But that's sort of my point with my family. Why create problems where there isn't? It's part of the reason I get along better with my mom and my brother. Like I know my mom wishes I still went to church or visited more often or whatnot, but she realized that bugging me about it actually gets the exact opposite reaction.

It took me a while to get here though believe me. I used to think I was doing something wrong. And then I thought about it and said: "What? What am I doing wrong?" My dad used to get really mad when we were arguing and I would start crying and he would yell at me to stop crying. Back then I would sort of be like: well, I should be able to argue without crying. But looking back on it, there is no reason to shame me for crying. It's a normal reaction. You should read the book "Quiet" by Susan Cain. It's not a self-help book but after I read it, it really helped me understand why I am the way I am and that my reaction to things is normal and that I don't have to apologize for it.

This part of your post resonated with me:

I've been with my now-husband for 12 years (high school sweethearts). Something that drives me batshit when I think about it too hard is that my dad thinks my husband has brainwashed me. As someone who considers herself a feminist, whose husband is a feminist...I mean, I guess it's the epitome of why our relationship is the way it is (father and me). Because he doesn't know me at all. You mean I changed as a person and my beliefs have changed since I was 15 after going to college and law school? Gee, that's really weird. I didn't know I was supposed to have the exact same point of view as I did when I was 15. He just blames it on my husband because we've been together that whole time. Which AGAIN, is so fucking insane because it's saying that I can't make up my mind as a human, as a woman, and am influenced by what the male in my life thinks. If you knew anything about me, then....

Yep to all of the above.

I have a degree in science, but always dreamed of opening a restaurant, so I did. It was successful for 14 years - until my ex went into a midlife crisis of sorts, found a younger woman and everything went to hell. But the point is I'm proud of that time, that restaurant, and those years were so fun and great. I'd gladly do it all again. All I hear about from my mother is, "YOU FAILED."  She throws it in my face that I didn't go into a science field career and opened my dream restaurant instead.  It is MY life. How about that? Jesus, let it go.  And for the record, she only rehashes failures and endings. Things that worked out well never get mentioned. - like 14 years of happiness in my restaurant - even if my ex was less than perfect during those times - ups and downs in the relationship. In the end he was a big cheater and liar , but shit happens.

My current happy relationship is NEVER mentioned. why? He's Mexican and I'M HAPPY WITH HIM. She asked,  "What kind of future are you going to have with HIM ? " And it was said with such contempt and derision . It was chilling. "Well, a happy future." 

I got so exasperated I just quit calling awhile backwhich is unfair to my dad bc he is supportive. She got mad bc I didn't call and that gave her more ammunition. "You don't call." Ok here we go. Guess why? Ever ask yourself that?

Here's one. She said that if I had been thinner, my ex wouldn't have cheated with the younger woman with the trust fund and the Mcmansion.  So, his cheating was my fault. Alrighty then.

Pile on bc it all didn't hurt enough already.

The word "petty" springs to mind and it is just baffling.

One time my ex and I were visiting their home. He needed to make some calls. She still brings up that my ex used their phone (with their permission) for long distance calls and didn't pay for the calls. Yet both my parents ate food from our restaurant  every day free - with free delivery to their home all those years. 14 years. But goddamn it he didn't pay for those phone calls. "well, mom, you got a lot of free food brought to your house free, maybe we could let a few phone calls go." NOPE. Pick, pick, pick, freaking pick it to death and then some. Keep picking.

My bf and I are living about 300 miles away from there now.. He calls it, "the escape." He's not wrong.  

Apologies for the long rant. It is cathartic.

Edited February 13, 2017 by ari333

[ari333]

Here's a question that has bothered me.

Why can't I just NOT CARE? Why can't I just not care what they say? I'm not hung  up on strangers' comments, only theirs. I wish I could just not care.

[rcc]

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

Here's a question that has bothered me.

Why can't I just NOT CARE? Why can't I just not care what they say? I'm not hung  up on strangers' comments, only theirs. I wish I could just not care.

If this helps you just have to tell yourself that you can't change people. You have to live your own life and ignore them. Just think that they would probably be happy that you are bothered by it all. Don't give them the satisfaction.

Works for me.

[ari333]

2 minutes ago, rcc said:

If this helps you just have to tell yourself that you can't change people. You have to live your own life and ignore them. Just think that they would probably be happy that you are bothered by it all. Don't give them the satisfaction.

Works for me.

Great advice. The ignoring part will be hard for me, but I'm getting there.

Hugs.

[JTMacc99]

2 minutes ago, ari333 said:

Great advice. The ignoring part will be hard for me, but I'm getting there.

Hugs.

Yes it will be. There are feelings that tie you to people and are hard to ignore no matter how much your brain tells you to do so.

I fell victim to something like that today. It's like I need an Elizabethan Dog Collar on me to stop me from going back to the same spot and making it worse. 

[ari333]

6 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

Yes it will be. There are feelings that tie you to people and are hard to ignore no matter how much your brain tells you to do so.

I fell victim to something like that today. It's like I need an Elizabethan Dog Collar on me to stop me from going back to the same spot and making it worse. 

Yes. Thank you for the response.

What is that expression? "Been there, done that, got the t-shirt."

It is hard.

[DeLurker]

43 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

Yes it will be. There are feelings that tie you to people and are hard to ignore no matter how much your brain tells you to do so.

I fell victim to something like that today. It's like I need an Elizabethan Dog Collar on me to stop me from going back to the same spot and making it worse. 

I have a lightly used cone-of-shame that would fit - should I send it?

@ari333 - I know that there has been a pattern in the relationship from your other posts, but are these things suddenly getting to you/under your skin more?   It sounds like there are a lot of things in your life that are positive despite the unsolicited feedback you get.

Have you done or considered any counseling?  It sounds like a pretty harsh family dynamic, but also one that you would like to find a way to redirect in a healthier path.

[ari333]

1 minute ago, DeLurker said:

I have a lightly used cone-of-shame that would fit - should I send it?

@ari333 - I know that there has been a pattern in the relationship from your other posts, but are these things suddenly getting to you/under your skin more?   It sounds like there are a lot of things in your life that are positive despite the unsolicited feedback you get.

Have you done or considered any counseling?  It sounds like a pretty harsh family dynamic, but also one that you would like to find a way to redirect in a healthier path.

This is nothing new. The only new part is that I'm refusing to take it anymore. That is not going over well, as you might expect. I took shit for years and now I'm not. Also, I'm happy in a state 300 miles away. I just feel like venting here bc I was told *I* was the problem for so long (bc in my family if you don't do what my mother wants you are deemed the problem) when all I wanted was to live my life in peace and have a decent relationship with my family,if possible. Decent and loving as opposed to them controlling and criticizing.

[ari333]

"Harsh  family dynamic" is an excellent description

[DeLurker]

Totally understandable - I was just thinking if the stress had recently ramped up for you.  I can see why trying to change the dynamic feels like opening up the floodgates. 

Do you email with them?  That way you can stay in touch and give them updates on your life, without having to go through a weekly phone call.  Bonus points if they write back because unless they take the time to write out heavy sigh and shakes head in disapproval you at least get to miss the melodramatics.

[ari333]

12 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

Totally understandable - I was just thinking if the stress had recently ramped up for you.  I can see why trying to change the dynamic feels like opening up the floodgates. 

Do you email with them?  That way you can stay in touch and give them updates on your life, without having to go through a weekly phone call.  Bonus points if they write back because unless they take the time to write out heavy sigh and shakes head in disapproval you at least get to miss the melodramatics.

Great idea. Tried it. My mother controls the computer at my parents' home. My father never touches it (he's not techy, he says)  so I'd have zero contact with him via email. And the email I did get from my mother back when I tried the email angle, was so stinging, I cant even begin to quote it. She has a way with words. And it burns.

But I see your point and thank you.

Edited February 14, 2017 by ari333

[ari333]

Hee. I just saw the cone of shame part heheheheh.

SEND IT! :-)

to me too! :-)

[ari333]

Delurker thank you for the responses ! This stuff has not recently gotten under my skin. It has been under my skin for 45- 50 plus yrs  (since I was a child) . The difference is that now -  I just recently decided that I'm not taking it anymore.  So I've rocked the boat. Never happened before bc I always took everyone's crap. I couldn't speak up. I couldn't be assertive.  Finally I reached the tipping point. If someone wants to be "mad" because I do what I need to do with my OWN LIFE  - that's on them. If a relationship can be salvaged, I'll meet someone half way, but I'm done taking orders and being criticized for every little fucking thing.   I sound bitter, bc I kind of am, but I'm trying to get over it or at least not let me make me cray. Venting here and getting responses feels validating and comforting.

[JTMacc99]

38 minutes ago, ari333 said:

Hee. I just saw the cone of shame part heheheheh.

SEND IT! :-)

to me too! :-)

I have one in my basement from my dogs @DeLurker. So if @ari333 needs it, don't worry about me. 

[ari333]

This is hard to say .

When I was 9 yrs old, I was shy, modest, quiet. My mother took me to swim which was great. When we got home she told me to take off my swimsuit OUTSIDE so she could spray me with the garden hose bc I was dirty. I said that I wanted to at least go behind the house in the backyard so no one could see me naked. She said, "NO" and forced me onto the driveway where all the neighbors could see me naked as she sprayed me with the hose and forced me to twirl in circles. I still have nightmares about it.  I was 9, old enough to feel humiliated.  She.denies it all. It didn't happen according to her.

I recall from the time I was 3 until around age 13 she would tell me regularly  "you're going to put  me in an early grave and when I die it will be your fault." Wow. That felt like shit. And from age 3 I knew what a grave was bc we put flowers on relatives' graves frequently. I understood what a cemetery was. In my 3 yr old mind, people go there and they don't come back.

She also told me on the regular , and I quote, "don't have children because they'll ruin your life." Well, I understood that message there.  

Edit to add: Now someone would be arrested for that shit. It was the late 60s then.

Edited February 15, 2017 by ari333

[BookWoman56]

@ari333 not to put too fine a point on it, your mother sounds BSC and like someone who should never have had kids or been allowed to raise them. Also, what was your father doing while all this behavior was going on? I mean, I understand that it was the late 60s and I lived through that era as well, but it seems as if he should have stopped some of this. Of course, that's assuming he was aware of it. I've known many people who had one parent who was emotionally abusive but very adept at being abusive only when no other adults were around. Maybe there was a combination of him not seeing the pattern there and the attitudes of the time, when people were very reluctant to say anything negative about someone's parenting. I'm sorry you experienced this abuse, but it reinforces that your mother is a toxic person and you should feel zero guilt if you terminate contact with her. 

[ari333]

1 minute ago, BookWoman56 said:

@ari333 not to put too fine a point on it, your mother sounds BSC and like someone who should never have had kids or been allowed to raise them. Also, what was your father doing while all this behavior was going on? I mean, I understand that it was the late 60s and I lived through that era as well, but it seems as if he should have stopped some of this. Of course, that's assuming he was aware of it. I've known many people who had one parent who was emotionally abusive but very adept at being abusive only when no other adults were around. Maybe there was a combination of him not seeing the pattern there and the attitudes of the time, when people were very reluctant to say anything negative about someone's parenting. I'm sorry you experienced this abuse, but it reinforces that your mother is a toxic person and you should feel zero guilt if you terminate contact with her. 

THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT CAPS INTENDED.  Ive been told that I'm wrong (by her) for so long and I know I'm normal. The shit that was done to me, I survived and I am stunned that I survived it . The big deal in the day was "don't tell your father" I wish I had told him  bc he would have stopped it (I think).

And your "BSC" made me laugh out loud bc that hits the nail on the fucking head. I just had no one to talk to bc it all sounded too fucking crazy that I thought no normal person would believe me. It has been hell holding all this inside. Just typing these things is so cathartic I cant even tell you. Your sweet response and others made me tear up. thank you.

[ari333]

The thing that feels comforting is that posters here are strangers and yet are giving me validation that I never had before when I objected (quietly, if at all) to things that happened in my family. I know I shouldn't need validation  from anyone, but I'd be lying if I said that it doesn't feel good. Reading "bat shit crazy" feels great because that's exactly how I felt about it.

Also, FWIW, my dad still makes excuses for my mother. "She was a young mother.." WHAT? Good grief. She was 26 when I was born , not 15. and she was in her 30s , 40s and beyond when she did a whole lot of weird shit to me. That "young mother" thing doesn't fly with me.

I'm at fault as well because I should have spoken up years ago; but I was a milquetoast chicken wimp.  I just took it, held it in,  and let it fester. Sometimes I thought I was wrong. Sometimes she was fairly subtle and other times not so much. But when I finish a conversation with her and I'm feeling BAD, something's not right. She seemed to knock me down (with words) when something special was happening - a new boyfriend, a party I was looking forward to, a special occasion etc. Sometimes it was carefully worded backhanded "compliments."

Edited February 15, 2017 by ari333

[ari333]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 4:17 PM, roseslg said:

Do they invite you or do you invite them?  I just wouldn't go.  I've stopped going to family events for the most part (unless there will be a lot of buffers).  I know what they're going to say and how the night will end up, so why bother?  I know they talk about me distancing myself from the family, but I don't care.  If you try to tell them the issues you have with them, they will think you're too sensitive or some other bs, or the usual, "this is how I am" statement.  

 

I'm sure if you see them 75% less, you'll feel better.  

THIS ^^^^

so much this.

[ari333]

I just gave up for the sake of my sanity. I dont go to family functions . My excuse is that I'm far away, but even when I was close, I skipped them in recent years . I hated the functions when I DID attend . It was excruciating. Why should I DREAD a holiday bc I know I have to show up somewhere where I'll be miserable. Life is too short.

This is kind of funny in a sad way.  My aunt was hosting the Christmas dinner and of course attendance was mandatory or all hell would break loose. She had her siblings, (the parents) at a regular dinner table and .... wait for it ... wait for it..... she had seated us at some kind of tiny card table. My boyfriend at the time was 40 fucking years old. And his knees were at his chest bc of the baby seating we were given. If you don't have enough adult chairs FOR ADULTS don't invite so many people. I was 28 yrs old and my knees were in my chest . THEY WERE BABY CHAIRS. And we were seated with the 6 yr old and 7 yrs old at the
kids" table  and the other ones 10 and 11 yrs old etc. What the fuck? Cant we sit  with fucking adults? Or just fuck it let's go home.  And they wonder why I don't show up.

Edited February 15, 2017 by ari333

[ari333]

Then there's the airing of the grievances aka "why (my name here) isn't married and living in sin and going to hell." Alrighty then. Glad I came. See ya next year... or not.

[ari333]

ooops

Edited February 15, 2017 by ari333

[backformore]

@ari333 -  I hear you about the crazy mother.   My mom at one time called me after attending her aunt (my great aunt's)  funeral. she called  to tell me aunt A had died. She berated me for not showing up to the funeral, said she was embarrassed that none of her kids bothered to show, while Aunt B's kids were all there.    Mind you, I didn't know that aunt A had died until AFTER the funeral, when I was being yelled  at for not going. I reminded her that she can't blame me for not being somewhere I didn't know I was supposed to be.

her answer - She said I should have read the obituary in the newspaper (the Chicago paper - there's 50 obits every day)  and she said, besides that, she didn't tell me because she knew I wouldn't have gone anyway. 

So there I was, being called selfish for not knowing that an elderly aunt (whom I hardly knew)   had passed away. 

She did stuff like that all the time.   My aunt once called me and was upset that my mom had told her that she made Christmas dinner, and none of us kids bothered to show up.  We left her and my dad ALONE on Christmas, with a big dinner, and apparently my mom was crying about it.  I told my aunt the real story  - we had all been together Christmas EVE, until late at night, had dinner, went to midnight mass, etc.  and then on  Christmas day, each of us were going to our respective  in-laws houses.  Yes, my mom decided at the last minute that she wanted to host a Christmas day dinner, everyone told her they were busy, she went ahead and did it anyway, just to be the martyr who invited all her kids and nobody showed up.  She was ALWAYS doing stuff like that. 

[ari333]

4 hours ago, backformore said:

@ari333 -  I hear you about the crazy mother.   My mom at one time called me after attending her aunt (my great aunt's)  funeral. she called  to tell me aunt A had died. She berated me for not showing up to the funeral, said she was embarrassed that none of her kids bothered to show, while Aunt B's kids were all there.    Mind you, I didn't know that aunt A had died until AFTER the funeral, when I was being yelled  at for not going. I reminded her that she can't blame me for not being somewhere I didn't know I was supposed to be.

her answer - She said I should have read the obituary in the newspaper (the Chicago paper - there's 50 obits every day)  and she said, besides that, she didn't tell me because she knew I wouldn't have gone anyway. 

So there I was, being called selfish for not knowing that an elderly aunt (whom I hardly knew)   had passed away. 

She did stuff like that all the time.   My aunt once called me and was upset that my mom had told her that she made Christmas dinner, and none of us kids bothered to show up.  We left her and my dad ALONE on Christmas, with a big dinner, and apparently my mom was crying about it.  I told my aunt the real story  - we had all been together Christmas EVE, until late at night, had dinner, went to midnight mass, etc.  and then on  Christmas day, each of us were going to our respective  in-laws houses.  Yes, my mom decided at the last minute that she wanted to host a Christmas day dinner, everyone told her they were busy, she went ahead and did it anyway, just to be the martyr who invited all her kids and nobody showed up.  She was ALWAYS doing stuff like that. 

YIKES> Holy shit, are we related? :-)

Here's one. I'll see your funeral and raise you one, "You didn't show up or call or fix food for your brother."  It is CRAZY MAKING. Here's how it went down. My mother casually mentioned that my brother "might" visit from several states away in "about 8 months" (No specific day). Well I had a busy restaurant, worked 10ish hours a day every day even at times on Christmas. So anyway, he arrived at their home for his visit.  NO ONE TOLD ME. NO ONE fucking called to tell me he was in town. NO one could be bothered to mention it; and keep in mind this is a person who will tell me every excruciating detail of a dr visit or what she had at brunch with so and so -   who I do not know and what so and so said in vivid detail.  

She waited until after he left town to call me and chew me out and tear me a new one  bc I didnt' call him or show up or bring food. I kid you not. I said, " godamnit no one could pick up a phone? You tell me NOW ?  he's already gone?"

She said... (wait for it... wait for it...) "Well, I told you 8 months ago that he might come in ABOUT 8 months.!!!" Shit.

As my bf says in jest, " Just pull the trigger." If it weren't sad, it'd be hilarious. And the added kicker is this. Why is it ok for HIM not to contact me to say hi, he's in town, but I get reamed for not .... oh let me shutty. You get my drift.

And shame on you for not going to a funeral that you had no clue was happening! Why aren't you psychic? Why don't you read extra long obits in full all day every day scanning for dead distant relatives ?HOW DARE YOU!? EEEKKKK! SHAME! :-)

Edited February 16, 2017 by ari333

[ari333]

I hope I'm not boring everyone. This is so cathartic.

My dad is the more sane of the two parents, but he has his defining moments and when he does, they are DOOZIES.

Here's one and I need help understanding the reason for my dad's response bc I just don't get it. I had a busy restaurant and especially during the lunch rush he'd call A LOT. I mean it could be 20 calls in one day. I said very sweetly, "Dad, I love to talk to you. Could you call a little less or not at lunch rush or let me return your call when I have some down time to focus on our conversation and enjoy it?" Here's what I got. "WELL, I JUST WONT CALL ANYMORE... AT ALL.. EVER THEN." 

What?  I made what I thought was a simple, kindly worded, reasonable request and look what I got.

[backformore]

I think our parents ARE related, Ari!

  When I was single,  I had been living on the other side of the city for a long time, and busy with working full-time and going to school, so I didn't see my parents  a lot.  Growing up, I was always told I wasn't as good as my sister, so I had to distance myself from that.  

When I was first married, we moved to an apartment pretty close to my parents.   My mom called me once and said she wanted to "spend the day with me", asked if we could go shopping, have lunch, etc.  I thought (maybe)  she wanted to repair our relationship.  I was willing to try. Maybe, finally, some mom-daughter bonding?     I picked her up, and we went to a store she asked to go to. (my mom never drove a car)  Ok, fine.  Once we got there, she made it clear that her version of "spending the day together"  was actually "drive me to the store so I can shop for your sister's birthday present."  So shopping consisted of her asking me to help her choose a gift for my sister, and that was it.   We left the store, and she made a comment about how she had to buy me lunch, now.  I said I wasn't hungry, drove her home, left.  I did tell her to call a cab next time she needed a ride to the store. 

This was decades ago, and it still stings.  My mom is gone now, and it took a while for me to realize that it wasn't about me not being good enough - it was about her being empty inside.

[ari333]

1 hour ago, backformore said:

I think our parents ARE related, Ari!

  When I was single,  I had been living on the other side of the city for a long time, and busy with working full-time and going to school, so I didn't see my parents  a lot.  Growing up, I was always told I wasn't as good as my sister, so I had to distance myself from that.  

When I was first married, we moved to an apartment pretty close to my parents.   My mom called me once and said she wanted to "spend the day with me", asked if we could go shopping, have lunch, etc.  I thought (maybe)  she wanted to repair our relationship.  I was willing to try. Maybe, finally, some mom-daughter bonding?     I picked her up, and we went to a store she asked to go to. (my mom never drove a car)  Ok, fine.  Once we got there, she made it clear that her version of "spending the day together"  was actually "drive me to the store so I can shop for your sister's birthday present."  So shopping consisted of her asking me to help her choose a gift for my sister, and that was it.   We left the store, and she made a comment about how she had to buy me lunch, now.  I said I wasn't hungry, drove her home, left.  I did tell her to call a cab next time she needed a ride to the store. 

This was decades ago, and it still stings.  My mom is gone now, and it took a while for me to realize that it wasn't about me not being good enough - it was about her being empty inside.

Wow. I feel the sting and I'm just a stranger reading about it.

I'd love to have a sister like you.

Your post reminded me of yet another story. (I hear everyone sighing and eye-rolling no, "oh ari, give it a rest already."

It's been some years, but my mom was in great shape physically at that time. I was proud of her fitness and glad she was healthy. I was chubby and in school and working (read that as "I was not working out") She'd invite me for a shopping day of mom and daughter time. She walked so fast that she'd leave me in her dust. I said, "Mom, can you wait up?" I was huffing and puffing and it was NOT FUN.  Dammit can we just walk together?  I get it. She's in shape and I'm not. GOT IT.

It wasn't just me. She poked my then bf in the tummy and said, "What's that?" bc he had gained a few pounds and was not working out ! THE HORROR  

She had one girlfriend/coworker who she hung out with at times. They planned a girls' weekend together at the beach about 5 hours drive away. My mom told me this story bc she was so proud of her behavior;  she bragged about it. I was appalled. Here's how it went. The friend/coworker was Betsy. She and my mom went to the beach for a weekend get away. They were on the beach and my mother wanted to walk on the beach. Betsy was a little chubby and not fit. THE HORROR. So when my mother said they should take a beach walk, Betsy said that she'd rather stay put on her lounge chair and enjoy the sun. Sounds fine. But NO My mother was furious. Imo, maybe Betsy felt shy about walking in a bathing suit up the beach OR.... maybe she knew my mother would walk way ahead of her and leave her in the dust (Been there. Done that.) Anyway, my mother explained to me as she recalled the story, that after Betsy declined the invitation to walk up the beach with my mother, my mother refused to speak to her for the rest of the weekend. Yep. the old silent treatment. Been there done that too.  Needless to say Betsy was not a friend after that. But weird part is that my mother thought she had "won."

WON WHAT?

Edited February 16, 2017 by ari333

[DeLurker]

1 hour ago, backformore said:

My mom is gone now, and it took a while for me to realize that it wasn't about me not being good enough - it was about her being empty inside.

A hard lesson to learn.  Even if you know it is true on an intellectual level, believing it on an emotional level takes a lot more.

You're comment about her being empty inside rings true.  I was thinking of telling @ari333 that her mom is probably a very angry person inside. 

My ex was - no matter how good things were, he'd always find something that wasn't right and that undercut everything else that was positive.  We separated when my son was 9 and my daughter 3.  It was a brutal, extended divorce and the court bifurcated the custody issue because he was fighting tooth and nail on that.  My kids had no idea why their dad was so angry - at everyone.  I broke it down this way for my son - imagine anger is a solid object like a rock - some are tiny and some are massive.  Most people get angry about something, so they pick up that rock and carry it with them for a bit.  They eventually start to not feel so angry about most things, so they put down that rock.  Their dad never put any of the rocks down and it got to be such a large amount, he couldn't see around it.

It was a pretty simplistic approach but it made the concept manageable for my son and it made sense to me.

Edited February 16, 2017 by DeLurker
Because I do know the difference between there/their/they're. But my fingers don't always.

[ari333]

14 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

A hard lesson to learn.  Even if you know it is true on an intellectual level, believing it on an emotional level takes a lot more.

You're comment about her being empty inside rings true.  I was thinking of telling @ari333 that her mom is probably a very angry person inside. 

My ex was - no matter how good things were, he'd always find something that wasn't right and that undercut everything else that was positive.  We separated when my son was 9 and my daughter 3.  It was a brutal, extended divorce and the court bifurcated the custody issue because he was fighting tooth and nail on that.  My kids had no idea why their dad was so angry - at everyone.  I broke it down this way for my son - imagine anger is a solid object like a rock - some are tiny and some are massive.  Most people get angry about something, so they pick up that rock and carry it with them for a bit.  They eventually start to not feel so angry about most things, so they put down that rock.  Their dad never put any of the rocks down and it got to be such a large amount, he couldn't see around it.

It was a pretty simplistic approach but it made the concept manageable for my son and it made sense to me.

Good analogy. I guess I want to know why she is that way or at least how can I help? How can I make it better ? -- without losing myself and my sanity in the process.

I know therapy (for me) would help, but I don't even know where to start. She would never consider therapy because there is nothing wrong in her opinion.  Clearly I'm the problem. (in her opinion) or rather anyone who doesn't do as they're told is the problem.

Talking here was a big step for me. I think I'm afraid I won't be believed bc it all sounds insane.

FWIW there was some weird shit going on in her family of origin. I don't mean physical abuse of her (if there was I am unaware of it) But weird belief systems and behaviors.  WEIRD. (imo)

[ari333]

I don't understand why she feels the need to pick me apart bit by bit . She includes things that would never occur to me to criticize. She can pick me to death to the point that I just don't show up and don't call for a long time.  And I do explain why I don't show up or call. I want to scream, "JUST STOP IT" and I did scream that one time. Didnt help. Also, talking calmly about it didn't help either.

"Don't point your toes that way, in that direction when you walk."

"Don't raise your eyebrows"

"Don't squint"

"Don't laugh in that way"

"That pronunciation is acceptable but not the standard."

"Do you really need that salad dressing?"

"They have steamed vegetables for an entrée. You can have that." I CAN HAVE THAT? WHAT?  I'm an adult for crying out loud DAMN. I'll get whatever the hell I want; I'll pay for it and why am I even here?

"That's not a good color on you"

"Have you gained a few pounds?" I have a mirror and a scale. I don't need an announcement.

And the go-to one is, "I am so disappointed in you." for whatever - pick something. 

Just pull the trigger [/tm my boyfriend] :-)

Edited February 16, 2017 by ari333

[BookWoman56]

@ari333 after listening to all this stuff about your mother and her interactions with you and other people, there's something that I feel compelled to say and it's probably going to come off as harsh, but what the hell: Your mother is a toxic human being. Nothing you can do will ever please her because she enjoys making you and others feel bad by passing judgment. Would you tolerate this kind of ongoing hurtful behavior from a friend or lover? I sincerely hope not. Again, I'm not you, but in your situation, I'd pull the plug on the relationship. No calls, no visits, no nothing. There seems to be not one iota of positive impact she is having on your life. If she'd been a great mother for years and this behavior was the result of some illness or new meds or something, that would be different. But it's not; this is the reality you've been dealing with your entire life. 

I had a relative in my life who was also toxic although in different ways. And I finally realized when he died that I felt no grief whatsoever, only relief that he was dead and I never had to deal with him again. So I would ask you to consider, has your mother treated you in a way that would make you truly feel grief for the loss when she dies? Or will you just feel relieved that you never have to endure the cutting criticisms again? If it's just relief, then maybe you need to just think of her as dead to you, someone who can no longer inflict emotional pain on you.

[ari333]

1 minute ago, BookWoman56 said:

@ari333 after listening to all this stuff about your mother and her interactions with you and other people, there's something that I feel compelled to say and it's probably going to come off as harsh, but what the hell: Your mother is a toxic human being. Nothing you can do will ever please her because she enjoys making you and others feel bad by passing judgment. Would you tolerate this kind of ongoing hurtful behavior from a friend or lover? I sincerely hope not. Again, I'm not you, but in your situation, I'd pull the plug on the relationship. No calls, no visits, no nothing. There seems to be not one iota of positive impact she is having on your life. If she'd been a great mother for years and this behavior was the result of some illness or new meds or something, that would be different. But it's not; this is the reality you've been dealing with your entire life. 

I had a relative in my life who was also toxic although in different ways. And I finally realized when he died that I felt no grief whatsoever, only relief that he was dead and I never had to deal with him again. So I would ask you to consider, has your mother treated you in a way that would make you truly feel grief for the loss when she dies? Or will you just feel relieved that you never have to endure the cutting criticisms again? If it's just relief, then maybe you need to just think of her as dead to you, someone who can no longer inflict emotional pain on you.

Thank you. You clearly understand my feelings and position. I just keep trying to fix it. I'm one of those hopeful to a fault. people and I need to make some changes. Also, I need my dad and he is positive and upbeat for the most part. As I mentioned, he has his moments, but for the most part he is supportive and sweet.  Part of my problem is that I never talked about any of this  to anyone until  I found this forum/thread. Now that I read your and other posters supportive, kind  comments I realize that I was not so wrong in feeling bad about.... well - everything that I've mentioned; and frankly I've just cracked the surface.

If there is a tiny bit of consolation is that it is not just me who she treats this way. there are many in her wake.  If it were just me, it'd feel worse.  My brother did the smart thing and escaped in his early 20s , moved far away. He rarely visits and they stay in a hotel when they do visit even tho my parents have a 4 bedroom huge house. So it's not just me. However, my brother has some serious anger issues and I have to steer clear of him. He kind of has the personality of my mother. I'm more like my dad. Kind of passive and sentimental and ... ok I'll say it  - kind and forgiving.. The sad part for me is that my dad is clearly scared shitless of my mother.  I get it.

Thank you for the support. I have never spoken about any of these things until this thread. Thank you all so much.  Seriously thank you so so much. Hugs. It is amazing to me that I spill my guts on the internet and all of you respond with such kindness and support. Now I'm going to cry - a happy cry of relief. .