S10.E20: Angel Heart

[catrox14]

 

Sorry, I must emphatically disagree. He is a demon and compared to what we know about Rowena, he wins the evil-bastard-award hands-down in my book. All her presence did was made him look boring and foolish but not misunderstood. I think DemonDean's halfassed evilness in combination with his buddy-comedy with Crowley did more damage in that regard and made Crowley look way too sympathetic. I almost felt sorry for him when DemonDean pushed him to the floor.

 

This is a perfect example of what I'm saying.  We actually felt sorry for Crowley because they turned Dean into a demon.  That was started back in s8 with the entire church scene.  Crowley became sympathetic when he should not be, and Dean became an asshole.We felt sorry for Crowley because they denigrated Dean.  That's what I'm saying. We should never feel sorry for Crowley for any reason. He's the King of Rotten! And to make that happen we had to make our heroes borderline villainous.

 

And this episode we have Cas calling out Dean when he was defending Claire's honor. And it wasn't like when he did it in Black. Dean might have been spoiling for a fight, but it was what he called Claire that pushed him over the edge IMO. Again not trying to beat a dead horse, but Sam did the same thing and that was never positioned as being wrong or bad.

 

I'm just getting really mixed signals in this episode about what is going on with the Sam , Dean and Cas. I want to love it but there is something here that rings false to me...and it feels like it's not supposed to....

Edited April 30, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

They do save people but they also do a lot of damage in the process. I don't mind that that gets addressed and I don't think it takes away from the sacrifices that they made in the name of hunting.

 

I agree. It doesn't bother me to see it get addressed or to see other characters within the show who draw the line elsewhere. That's as it should be imo.

 

Like Susie -- she basically sacrificed her life to try and keep the thing in her basement contained, and when Sam came to get the codex (for Dean's sake, not for the good of the world), he upset the status quo and got her killed. I don't think that Susie's life is worth less than Dean's or that she sacrificed less than Dean. But Sam didn't care about her like he cared about his brother, so her life was acceptable collateral damage to him and he made his choices with that in mind. That doesn't turn me against Sam, because it's no surprise that in the end, Sam is going to do what he feels he has to do. But at the same time, I'm glad that the whole world of the show isn't some weird vortex with the Winchesters at the center -- that they're *a part* of their world, but *everyone* has his/her own perspective, and the Winchesters' perspective(s) isn't the "right" one by default (just because they are the Winchesters).

 

When Sam says things like how Dean will be OK because he's a Winchester or how in their world "death doesn't always mean goodbye," I think that he's just buying his own hype. And that doesn't turn me against him, either, because that's a normal, human thing to do. But nobody's that special -- so Sam and Dean are liable to become someone else's collateral damage one day, just like lots of other people have been theirs. (And they already were Azazel's collateral damage before).

 

The Winchesters are genuinely scary people and I don't have a problem with shining a light on the fact that if you tread in the mud for very long, you get some on you.

 

they have crossed a few lines too often in their lives, sometimes out of necessity, sometimes out of despair, and often, because the alternative might have been worse.

 

Yes, exactly.

 

It doesn't make me feel that the show is trying to turn me against the Winchesters or condemn them by bringing it up. Nobody gets to/through adulthood without getting a little dirtied up themselves imo. The only way I can think of to stay pristine is if other people are dirtying themselves up on your behalf, and to let other people ruin themselves doing your dirty work isn't necessarily the more moral choice, either. And not one that the Winchesters would ever make, in any case.

[catrox14]

Collateral damage is not a new theme. It's just the players have changed.  And it's being addressed during the Year of the Deanmon when we are supposed to think Dean is the WORST EVER and which was preceded by Sam being the WORST EVER because he didn't look for Dean and decided to not close the gates of Hell together. 

 

I don't know why it's bugging me so much in this episode.....but it is.

 

But I'll take my thoughts to the all episodes thread

Edited April 30, 2015 by catrox14

[rue721]

 I think both he AND Dean were projecting all over Claire this week.  When Claire asked if Dean had had a drink before he was 21, I was thinking ...duh. I bet Dean had been shit-faced on occasion at 18. I'm glad he didn't give her the beer (because Cas WOULD object) and was kinda surprised he took her along and gave her a GUN.  OTOH, I think that's the empathy working.  If he was in Claire's position, he knows what he would want and he respected that.  I liked that part.

 

Tbh, I didn't really understand a lot of Claire and Dean's "bonding." Why was she asking Dean's permission to take a beer? Just take it, right? Who is he to her that she'd defer to him as an authority figure like that? And then he took her mini-golfing? Why did he give her the gun, but instead of taking her somewhere to shoot it, randomly went to play mini-golf? The thing of Dean being weird about the beer and wanting to spend an evening playing mini-golf with her, but at the same time giving her a gun and taking her to a crime scene to check out a dead body, *could* make sense, since Dean's life is weird like that. It's not that I have some fundamental problem with any of that. But I just don't really know what to make of it.

 

I don't really know what to make of Cas's discussions with Sam and Dean about his responsibility toward Claire, either. The logistics of her life already didn't make sense to me because I wasn't understanding how she was supporting herself and because it was so strange to me that she apparently still doesn't have any friends or a boyfriend or anything. She seemed almost ludicrously independent, in that she seemed to have plenty of money but zero attachments. Plus, that's kind of the opposite of where she was when Cas left her at the side of the road a few episodes back. But in any case, if she can support herself and she doesn't even want friends, let alone a pseudo family (like she had with Randy and that I guess Cas is proposing to have with her), then I don't really get what Cas was even debating about?

 

For their part in the "Cas Debates Whether Claire Should Have Agency" scenes, I found Sam and Dean's dialogue heavy-handed and dull but whatever. There was a lot of heavy-handed and dull dialogue in this one. I think that was the biggest shortcoming of the episode even (the CONSTANT heavy-handed and dull dialogue. SO. MUCH. MEANINGLESS. TALKING).

[catrox14]

I actually bought the Dean/Claire bonding by the end. Because I was really bothered by the implication that Dean hates teenagers when we know that's not true and Dean has always shown to have a wonderful connection with kids even though things didn't work out with Lisa and Ben, he was not a bad father to Ben. He bonded with the other young hunter girl (why can't I remember her name!?#old. Claire was realizing she had been wrong to set up Dean. I think she saw that Dean actually didn't treat her like a kid at all and teenagers do appreciate that. Dean let her make her own decisions. As to the beer drinking, they would have been inundated with complaints. It's still network TV and you can't have your hero give a beer to an underage person. They wouldn't even let demon!Dean do that.  But the US being weird would find no problem with her using a gun. go figure LOL.

 

I think she needed to bond with someone because she was terrified and was losing her Mom again.  And IMO Cas is still weird for her because of Jimmy IMO. So Dean and Sam seemed reasonable people for her to bond with. 

[DittyDotDot]

Shouldn't Dean have recognized Sid and bought him a beer instead of smashing his head into a table?  Oh, and if Dean smashing Sid's head in to a table is a sign he's losing it...yeah, that smartass theory of me being in a coma and reality is a dream seems to be more likely after this episode. Seems the least they could've done was take Clair to Jodi's in person, it's not like they have ever met before or anything. Whatever, I do love me some Blue Eyes Crying In The Rain, so there was that.

 

I just don't understand why this episode exists.

 

 

I've been speculating that Cole would be the spinoff character...but I'm now starting to think maybe it's going to be Claire. They left her with Cliff's Notes of how to hack, shoot and kill. 

 

Heh, maybe they'll do a spinoff where Jodi runs a home for wayward teens touched by the Supernatural. Now all they gotta do is get Krissy and Co. to Jodi's as well. ;)

[SueB]

Tbh, I didn't really understand a lot of Claire and Dean's "bonding." Why was she asking Dean's permission to take a beer? Just take it, right? Who is he to her that she'd defer to him as an authority figure like that? And then he took her mini-golfing? Why did he give her the gun, but instead of taking her somewhere to shoot it, randomly went to play mini-golf? The thing of Dean being weird about the beer and wanting to spend an evening playing mini-golf with her, but at the same time giving her a gun and taking her to a crime scene to check out a dead body, *could* make sense, since Dean's life is weird like that. It's not that I have some fundamental problem with any of that. But I just don't really know what to make of it.

 

I don't really know what to make of Cas's discussions with Sam and Dean about his responsibility toward Claire, either. The logistics of her life already didn't make sense to me because I wasn't understanding how she was supporting herself and because it was so strange to me that she apparently still doesn't have any friends or a boyfriend or anything. She seemed almost ludicrously independent, in that she seemed to have plenty of money but zero attachments. Plus, that's kind of the opposite of where she was when Cas left her at the side of the road a few episodes back. But in any case, if she can support herself and she doesn't even want friends, let alone a pseudo family (like she had with Randy and that I guess Cas is proposing to have with her), then I don't really get what Cas was even debating about?

 

For their part in the "Cas Debates Whether Claire Should Have Agency" scenes, I found Sam and Dean's dialogue heavy-handed and dull but whatever. There was a lot of heavy-handed and dull dialogue in this one. I think that was the biggest shortcoming of the episode even (the CONSTANT heavy-handed and dull dialogue. SO. MUCH. MEANINGLESS. TALKING).

 

Note: you may not have actually WANTED answers to your questions. In which case...move along, move along, these are not the droids you are looking for.  In case you wanted answers, I've taken a stab from my perspective:

 

The Beer: well legal drinking age is 21 so I'm pretty sure it's HIS beer.  Kinda rude of her to just walk over and take one.  Plus she had a concussion and Cas is protective of her.  Her potentially getting intoxicated (if she's not used to drinking, for example) on his watch -- that would be bad.

 

Mini-Golf vs Gun:  The mini-golf was to relieve HIS tedium.  The gun came AFTER.  While at mini-golf he realized something about the case. Did the research. Decided to go to the farm and THEN armed Claire. So there was no option here, just a sequence of events.

 

Crime scene but no beer: I think with Cas there, he deferred to Cas not objecting to her coming to the crime scene. No beer was his call alone (again, HIS beer).

 

Ludicrous independence vs Cas' concern: Her money situation WAS ludicrous. But she also got knocked out in a sketchy part of town.  She was lucky Ronnie called 911.  And Sam pointed out, she's not using an alias. She was making some obvious (to them) rookie mistakes for living on the road (without a job) if that was her life choice.  I think Cas gets to be concerned because although she's 18 and thus independent, his actions messed her up. And she ended up in the hospital. I think he choose WISELY to try and set her up at Jodi's while she sorted out some things and then LET HER CHOOSE.  Finding her mother had clearly been driving her.  Now that this is resolved, what does she want to do.  She needs some time to grieve and look at what she wants to do in life.  So they offered Jodi and she apparently accepted.  She could take that credit card Sam gave her and just take off.  I don't think she's going to though.  She'll follow their recommendation at this point because she sees they are experienced in what they are doing and sincerely want to help.  And Jodi knows trauma recover (which Claire is clearly suffering from).  This was an excellent recommendation by TFW and I think they sold her on it.  

 

Cas debate scenes: IMO those scenes weren't about Claire.  They were about Sam and Dean projecting their current shit ONTO Claire's situation. Dean is starting to think he needs to run off like a wounded animal and figure out a better Plan B than Sam & Cas taking him out. Sam is all about family.  

Edited May 1, 2015 by SueB

[AwesomO4000]

I don't agree with the part about repercussions of Dean getting the mark not being his fault. Dean getting the Mark is exactly because of Dean allowing Gadreel to possess Sam. Kevin's death. Everything is because of the choice Dean made. I don't see that is ever going to be forgotten (although at times I wish it was!)

 

I'm not really sure how that gets erased because of something Sam does to try and fix it.  It would just more unintended consequences.  My problem is with Sam's rationale for lying which there isn't one other than plot reasons.  I've been thinking that maybe Sam has been under the influence of magic already  and maybe that is compelling him to keep it quiet. I would buy that rationale because otherwise it's Sam going off half-cocked...again. :(

 

This is why. In my mind, the consequences of Dean getting the mark would be at the least partially erased if the repercussions from the mark are not caused because of something Dean does - as you pointed out in the post I quoted on the previous page: Dean actually seems to be somewhat handling things in this episode while it is Sam who is going off "half cocked" (even Dean called him out on it last week), and being reckless with the consequences (as illustrated by what happened to Susie last week).

 

All of a sudden Sam seems to be panicking (as you said likely for plot reasons, but since he is doing it, it will be on Sam, plot reasons or no). Add this to Dean specifically telling Sam to not keep digging, because the consequences are too great and he doesn't want that (i.e. Dean specifically trying to minimize any damage he might do or that might be done in his name), and Sam doing it anyway (showing he doesn't care about the damage) and lying about it (highlighting that it is shady and "wrong")... for me that all is heavily implying that if things go belly up, then it's going to more look like the guy who went off half-cocked, did exactly what his brother (who seemed to be handling it) told him he shouldn't do, damn the consequences, and lied about it (Sam) is going to look way more guilty than the guy who wasn't aware of the consequences of taking the mark in the first place, tried at every step to minimize the potential damage (Don't do anything potentially damaging to save me, burn the book, etc.), and was lied to (Dean).

 

I understand miles may vary, but the whole thing seems slanted to me that Dean is more going to be the victim of circumstance. Things are being done to him. He's being lied to. His wishes are being ignored. He's not being trusted, despite his not really doing anything that questionable. Meanwhile Sam is actively doing things that are not positive: he's lying, he's being reckless, he's not showing the faith in Dean all of a sudden that he said he had, and he's not showing that he cares enough about the consequences to stop. Put that altogether with the "who is really the monster" stuff we were getting from the beginning of the season, and I think the slant is going to be that Sam is the monster or at least he's going to create the "monster" through all of his actions.

 

Again miles may vary, but this is the vibe that I'm getting here from these last few episodes.

 

A great deal is going to depend on what happens next. If Sam is wrong and the book does way more damage than good, then I'll really suspect that Sam is being set up here to take the ultimate fall... Kind of like when Dean accidentally breaking the first seal was not good, but it wouldn't have had any consequence at all if not for Sam being more actively involved in breaking the last one.

 

Dean in this episode seemed to be dealing - not entirely himself, but dealing. So, to me, it's going to depend on what happens how the slant of blame is going to fall, but all of the hints and signs I mentioned above seem (imo) to be pointing directly at Sam in yet another "good intentions gone wrong due to recklessness and not listening to big brother / Dean who's right" scenario which seems to generally befall him and Castiel. Miles vary. And believe me, I wish it wasn't looking this way to me.

Edited May 1, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[StillCrazy]

I guess I interpreted (or fanwanked) the bar scene differently than everyone else.

 

When Cas & Dean are talking to the bartender Dean is showing her his badge.  And when they first sit down at the table Cas is showing Ronnie his badge so they are obviously supposed to be FBI agents. Dean doesn't even do the obligatory I'm Agent whoever and this is my partner Agent Whoever and we are investigated a case.  He goes straight to "bad cop" and when he slams Ronnie's head into the table Cas looks back at the bartender nervously.   

 

Later when Cas says Dean lost it I thought he meant that Dean completely forgot the part they were supposed to play.  The bartender knew them as FBI agents and Dean was manhandling someone she had just pointed out to them.  The head slam wasn't that bad in and of itself but Dean is usually much more collected when he is interviewing a potential witness/suspect.  Especially in a room full of people.

 

YMMV.

[catrox14]

So, rewatching this ....did anyone else think that Dean put something in the book he gave to Claire? 

[SueB]

So, rewatching this ....did anyone else think that Dean put something in the book he gave to Claire? 

Door is definitely open for that.

[former vampire]

Ho hum. I used to look forward to episodes when Cas was working with the brothers. That was so many seasons ago. Now he seems a shell of his former self, ineffectual and powerless. One episode he's being saved from another angel by a mortal Metatron, now he's being saved from an angel by a teenage girl. I truly think they are doing their best to make him boring and pointless so that they can kill him off without too much complaint. Although to be fair, none of the other characters in this episode were remotely interesting either. Lucky for all involved that the soul sucking angel legally bought property to store his human snacks and put it in the name he's been giving out to people.

 

Metatron saved Cas before Cas got part of his own grace back in the library. The stolen grace (from Crowley killing that other angel) was slowly fading from episode to episode so Cas was weaker than the other angel (a Cherub, I think?). I don't understand why semi-recharged Cas had such a problem fighting the Gregori, though. If Watcher angels are supposed to be much more powerful than your typical angel, then it should have been demonstrated in-show.

 

YMMV, but Cas was entertaining when he didn't understand references. I also liked him exploring what it meant to be human, although I didn't care for the powerlessness or the mopey attitude that sometimes went along with it. I thought the writers could have done much more with his new-found knowledge. Metatron put an entire internet full of books, TV shows, movies, & pop culture references in his brain. Yet Castiel has only used that twice that I recall -- once to say he understood a Star Wars reference & once to race Metatron for his grace hidden in that library.

 

Lately, the show has Cas in angst over Dean, Claire, and his own life choices. I'd like for Cas to get a little more dialogue to help solve a case & make some witty references while doing so. I don't trust the writers to do that, though. We'd just get more "woe is me" and "is Dean/Claire going to be alright?" type of stuff.

 

 

I wasn't paying attention to the name the Gregori was using. Do we know that he wasn't just using the name & property already owned by his vessel?

 

And why do Jimmy and Amelia get to hang out together in Heaven, but Bobby is seemingly alone?

 

I assume Jimmy & Amelia share a place in Heaven because they both went to Heaven & they're soulmates. But we don't know exactly how Heaven 2.0 is set up. Maybe they get special treatment because Jimmy was an angel's vessel?

 

Wasn't Bobby's wife possessed? You'd think that she would have made it to Heaven. They weren't soulmates? Bobby's detour in Hell had something to do with this? Most likely either the writers didn't want us to be more pissed at Sam & Cas for getting Bobby sent to Heaven's jail, or they just forgot he was married.

 

(Btw, where was Claire's money coming from? That leather motorcycle jacket, the motel room, etc, was distracting me -- but maybe they explained that and I missed it?).

 

I thought Castiel gave her money the last time we saw her. I don't know much money or how long ago that was supposed to have been.

 

I don't know if Cass is headed for a death. What happens to angels when they die anyway? I don't know if it was explained in previous seasons, I haven't done a rewatch in forever. When monsters die, they go to purgatory, demons go to hell, and angels go to heaven I guess? If that's the case can't he just come back?

 

Anyway, I'm not sure how I would feel about his death. He hasn't had much to do but it's always fun to see him interacting with the boys.

 

The last montage was beautiful. Jimmy and his wife in heaven was touching as well. For a moment I was sure Amelia is not going to die but boy they're telling us that there's no happy ending for anyone in this world. Which means that they will all die a horrible death eventually.

 

I'd like to know what happens to angels when they die too. If they do go back to heaven then it has to be without all of their original angel powers. Maybe they get their own rooms like humans? And what happens to the monsters that get killed in Purgatory -- do they go directly to Hell?

 

 

The Jimmy & Amelia scene was kind of sweet, but I couldn't be overly happy for them. Jimmy made it sound like he'd been waiting forever for her. All I could think was that he could have waited longer! They have an 18 year old daughter together that could have used a little more love & guidance. Sure, Claire will probably do fine on her own. And sure, Jimmy had no control over when Amelia would die. Still, the fact that Jimmy gets Amelia (& appears to pout about the waiting) after Claire had just found & then lost her mother bugged me a bit.

 

So, rewatching this ....did anyone else think that Dean put something in the book he gave to Claire? 

 

I was waiting for Dean to open the book & show her something inside it as soon as Claire dismissed it as homework.

[AwesomO4000]

And what happens to the monsters that get killed in Purgatory -- do they go directly to Hell?

 

I've theorized before that they just come back again in purgatory, because one character somewhere said that purgatory was where monsters went to hunt each other for all eternity, so it would make sense that their "souls" wouldn't get extinguished that easily. If their souls were truly and sincerely dead after getting killed in purgatory, I wouldn't expect there to be the millions and millions (estimated 40,000,000+, I think), and also if they went "poof" that easily, I wouldn't think that Castiel and Crowley would've gotten all that much out of "harvesting" their power. Put all of that together, and my theory is that the monster souls just continue on, getting "reanimated" and hunting each other over and over again... especially with the leviathans around. I think they would've hunted down and eaten all of the other monsters long before now if the other monsters went "poof" after getting killed the first time... especially the humanoid ones such as vampires, shapeshifters, and the like.

 

I guess it would depend on how common monsters are in the verse. Or maybe they get weakened each time they get killed and so eventually their souls do fizzle out? I think I'd like that better than one death and gone, because that would demote the power of monster souls, and would make the whole searching for the souls of purgatory as power thing make less sense to me.

Edited May 4, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[Wynne88]

Having leisurely pondered it, I'm annoyed that we went from Sam handcuffed to a chair with the bad guy holding a sword a couple inches from his face, to a commercial break, and then to the overturned chair and unlocked handcuffs without an explanation.  If Sam managed to free himself despite having the bad guy right there, then why were he, Dean and Cas unable to subdue him when working together?  I'm not sure that having Sam be captured really served any purpose since Dean had already figured out he was a Grigori.

[SueB]

Having leisurely pondered it, I'm annoyed that we went from Sam handcuffed to a chair with the bad guy holding a sword a couple inches from his face, to a commercial break, and then to the overturned chair and unlocked handcuffs without an explanation.  If Sam managed to free himself despite having the bad guy right there, then why were he, Dean and Cas unable to subdue him when working together?  I'm not sure that having Sam be captured really served any purpose since Dean had already figured out he was a Grigori.

Story set up for S11?

[AwesomO4000]

Having leisurely pondered it, I'm annoyed that we went from Sam handcuffed to a chair with the bad guy holding a sword a couple inches from his face, to a commercial break, and then to the overturned chair and unlocked handcuffs without an explanation.  If Sam managed to free himself despite having the bad guy right there, then why were he, Dean and Cas unable to subdue him when working together?  I'm not sure that having Sam be captured really served any purpose since Dean had already figured out he was a Grigori.

 

Ah, good, so I wasn't the only one who thought that I was missing something when I asked why this happened earlier (On page 1 of the comments). (I called it a "black box") I thought that it was also weird that Sam said he didn't know where the Grigori went when he found Dean. How did that happen if Sam Sam escaped and fought him? How would he not know where the Grigori went?

 

My only theory is that for some reason - maybe the Grigori heard something - he left Sam alone to go investigate and then Sam escaped. Not sure why Sam's escaping was so clumsy that he turned the chair over though.

 

Otherwise I got nothing.

[bethy]

Now that you mention it, I remember wondering if the grigori had somehow become Sam or was impersonating him at that point. Weird.

[supposebly]

It did look like there was  scene missing that got cut for some reason. Even if that's the case, I'm really not clear on why Sam would stay in that house instead of running over to the barn.

[catrox14]

Now that you mention it, I remember wondering if the grigori had somehow become Sam or was impersonating him at that point. Weird.

 

I was thinking the same thing

[DittyDotDot]

Having leisurely pondered it, I'm annoyed that we went from Sam handcuffed to a chair with the bad guy holding a sword a couple inches from his face, to a commercial break, and then to the overturned chair and unlocked handcuffs without an explanation.  If Sam managed to free himself despite having the bad guy right there, then why were he, Dean and Cas unable to subdue him when working together?  I'm not sure that having Sam be captured really served any purpose since Dean had already figured out he was a Grigori.

 

Wait, did I totally remember this wrong? I know the episodes aren't really engaging me much, but as I remember it: Sam was handcuffed to the itty-bitty chair (which let's just take a moment to giggle about, because its just so silly sometimes) and while the Grigori was monologuing, Sam pulled a nail out of the back of the chair. He then used the nail to pick the lock and get out of the handcuffs. There was a little scuffle, but Sam not being much of a match for the Grigori, he got whacked on the head and was knocked out. He was just coming to when Sam and Cass entered and thus didn't know where the Grigori went. Now, why the hell the Grigori didn't just kill Sam before poofing off...who knows?  Did I remember any of that right?

 

BTW, I think it might be time for Sam and Dean to invest in some football helmets...seriously it can't be good for their noggins' to be whacked on the head so much.

[catrox14]

There was a scuffle before the Grigori tied Sam up. I don't remember a scuffle after Sam picked the locks.

[DittyDotDot]

Oh well, I tried as best as I could to remember. Sorry, do not have the will to re-watch this one.

 

Did Sam at least get hit on the noggin'? It'd be sad if my smartassery was pointless too. ;)

[catrox14]

Not to worry . Sam did get knocked out.

[AwesomO4000]

Dean's "Cas saved the world" line had me scratching my head. Apparently a lot of people had the same reaction because Robbie Thompson had to explain on twitter that the line was supposed to be "helped" save the world. Which makes more sense.

 

This is from a while back, but while contemplating something else, my brain just figured out what this might be referring to. I am so damn slow, and I also apologize if anyone else came to the same conclusion, and I somehow missed it...

 

Although he wouldn't have found out about it until later, maybe Dean was talking about Metatron here. Because Cas did actually save the world from Metatron by finding the angel tablet and smashing it so that Metatron no longer had his god-like powers. Castiel also made sure the other angels heard Metatron's plan so that he couldn't continue convincing the other angels to extinguish the human race - which was his plan if I'm remembering correctly. Or at least to extinguish any humans who didn't worship him as God... it would be a bunch of people-smiting and the end of the world as it currently was anyway - so in that respect, Cas did save the world there, in my opinion - or at least the world as they knew it, because having Metatron as God would suck. No embellishments by Dean necessary.

 

* Sadly, I came to this realization because I was pondering a Kevin - Charlie parallel... which lead me to Dean - Gadreel vs Sam's current "helping" of Dean without his consent and how that is likely to go way more wrong than the Dean / Gadreel thing, because it turned out that Gadreel was helpful and good in the end, ** and that even with the loss of Kevin, Gadreel helped Castiel escape so he could save the world from Metatron.... Ohhhh maybe that's what Dean meant. My brain is a scary place.

 

** And how I unfortunately don't think Sam is going to get that benefit of the doubt, but rather a repeat of "Sam starts the apocalypse," because he's Sam.

[shang yiet]

Everybody Dean trusts turns out to be good in the end. That's in the writers' handbook. 

Edited May 5, 2015 by shang yiet

[FlickChick]

Dean might also have been referring to the fact that Castiel identified the head Leviathan Dick and helped Dean with the kill. But I like your theory about Metatron, Awesom.

Edited May 5, 2015 by FlickChick

[catrox14]

Everybody Dean trusts turns out to be good in the end. That's in the writers' handbook.

 

 

Taking my response to the all episodes thread

 

W

Edited May 6, 2015 by catrox14

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Oh, the thoughts I can think when I have too much time on my hands:

• Damn, your average ordinary everyday dick angels weren't bad enough, now we have vampire angels?  WWDCT (What Would Dean Call Them); Vamgels?  Anpires?
• Claire's got a soft head.  I don't mean metaphorically (though maybe that too.) One little fling against a dumpster and she's out cold.  
• Watcher angels?  Dang, now I gotta go look up real Catholic Angel lore.  Pretty sure that was a famous painting of Michael the Archangel defeating Satan though.  Not a "watcher angel".
• Claire caved pretty quick.  Sam didn’t even use the puppy eyes.
• Why did they look at Dean so oddly when he said “give me something to punch already”?  I feel that way myself from time to time; often many times in the course of the same day and I don’t have the Mark of Cain.  I don’t think…(hee).  Also, why did it have to be a ‘case’ for them to help Claire in the first place?  Why not just help because it was the right thing to do?  Because Cas is their friend and he wanted to help, so they would help him? Along the same note as earlier, I didn’t think the bar smashing the dude’s head into the table was all scary MoC acting out or “Dean snapped” either.  BeChuckus…look at what Sam did when he just trying to find Deanmon, which was much worse, imo.  And Sam didn’t have the MoC either.  I don’t think.  (hee).
• Can’t wait to see how the “we got along okay” bit about Sam and Mary plays out in S12.  Heh heh.
• No, Claire.  Hacking into credit card records is not actually that easy.  If it were, people wouldn’t need to try to steal your personal information through phishing scams, etc. etc. etc.  Gotta roll my eyes hard at that one.  Still, I liked the Claire and Sam scenes.  He obviously had a good rapport with her.
• Why bother making the dude blind again if you’re just going to kill him anyway?
• I hope all the Leviathan chemicals have been cleaned out of Biggerson’s food now.
• Ooooh.   Scary Mark of Cain Dean…took a teenager to play mini-golf.  Yeah, we’d better keep a close eye on that guy.  He’s dangerous!
• Yeah, now all of a sudden, “she’s family” from Sam in the car with Cas, but earlier in the hospital he was on the fence about helping her find her mom?  Dude, make up your mind.
• Dang, I really like seeing SmartDean.  He makes me happy.  And I like CoolDean who treats teenagers with respect like adults, not kids. 
• I’m surprised the anpire didn’t start sucking out Sam’s soul.  Maybe it’s too dark to feed off of.
• Nice moment when Claire thanked Dean.  
• Not that it would have made a difference, but Claire should have had 5 shots in that revolver, not 4.
• Neither MoC Dean nor repowered Cas could take out the Grigori?  Huh.
• I really don't know what to say about Amelia.  What a tragic couple years she's had.  And Claire thought she just abandoned her.  Kind of like John Winchester thought his dad abandoned him but didn't really.  At least Claire found out her mom didn't just leave her.  And Amelia is in heaven now.  But is that REALLY Jimmy?  Or just Amelia's created StepfordHeavenJimmy?  It's still pretty sad, imo, if it's just StepfordHeavenJimmy.

[Demented Daisy]

8 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Watcher angels?  Dang, now I gotta go look up real Catholic Angel lore.  

Watcher angels were called Grigori.

[bettername2come]

Poor Amelia. I'd completely forgotten that was her name, and I'm fighting against my distaste for Supernatural characters named Amelia. 

"You were both troubled teens. You speak her language." Claire looks so pretty with her hair down. She should never do that weird brain thing again.

I kind of love that Claire checked in with her real name. She's so innocent. I like that Sam shut her up with the "my mom died argument" and the confusing "but yeah we got along after" comment. (please, Sam, you've met the woman twice.)

Poor blind guy. 

I like Claire and Dean bonding with golf comedies. So Sam and Dean used to play mini golf? That makes me happy. 

Ooh, smart angel threading the handcuffs through the bars of the chair. But Sam and Dean can always find a nail.

Is it just me or do the Grigoris sound like Djinn? Feeding off souls instead of life, but still.

On 10/6/2016 at 10:06 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

• I really don't know what to say about Amelia.  What a tragic couple years she's had.  And Claire thought she just abandoned her.  Kind of like John Winchester thought his dad abandoned him but didn't really.  At least Claire found out her mom didn't just leave her.  And Amelia is in heaven now.  But is that REALLY Jimmy?  Or just Amelia's created StepfordHeavenJimmy?  It's still pretty sad, imo, if it's just StepfordHeavenJimmy.

I choose to believe it's the real Jimmy and they're soulmates. I think the fact that he was crying over her shoulder when they reunited lends itself to that. I think StepfordJimmy would've been smiling.

[Hanahope]

Can I please hope this is the last we see of Claire?  Her mom is dead, her dad is dead, they are in heaven, her story is over, right?  Please?!

Just a really filler of an episode, unless the Gregori have some special role later on.

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Can I please hope this is the last we see of Claire?  Her mom is dead, her dad is dead, they are in heaven, her story is over, right?  Please?!

If you really want to know:

Spoiler

No, it's not the last we see of Claire, but I think the way they use her in the future is better and it's very limited over the next couple seasons.

[Hanahope]

Well, ok, I suppose, as long as its better.  She's just been very annoying as a character.

[The Companion]

On 9/6/2017 at 10:22 PM, bettername2come said:

 

I choose to believe it's the real Jimmy and they're soulmates. I think the fact that he was crying over her shoulder when they reunited lends itself to that. I think StepfordJimmy would've been smiling.

Same. That little sob was so sweet and I refuse to hear otherwise. 😥

I actually LIKED this one, which apparently makes me weird. I think I was just so disappointed with the way they left Claire on the side of the road. I enjoyed that they actually taught her something about hunting and I enjoyed the bonding over minigolf. I hated that Amelia was immediately killed, but did love the reunion in heaven.

Poor Jodi with her house for wayward girls affected by monsters. But I am happy to see that they set her up with a support system. Progress!

Overall, this one worked for me, personally. 

[S Cook Productions]

On 1/22/2020 at 2:26 PM, The Companion said:

Same. That little sob was so sweet and I refuse to hear otherwise. 😥

I actually LIKED this one, which apparently makes me weird. I think I was just so disappointed with the way they left Claire on the side of the road. I enjoyed that they actually taught her something about hunting and I enjoyed the bonding over minigolf. I hated that Amelia was immediately killed, but did love the reunion in heaven.

Poor Jodi with her house for wayward girls affected by monsters. But I am happy to see that they set her up with a support system. Progress!

Overall, this one worked for me, personally. 

Same. I really enjoyed this one, but I also like Willie Nelson songs lol.