S02.E21: Fire with Fire

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After discovering that he's been betrayed by his own siblings, Klaus teams up with an unlikely ally and sets off on a warpath, hell bent on revenge. Amidst the news that Klaus is on the loose, Elijah, Rebekah and Freya move forward with their plan to lure Dahlia to the compound and take her down once and for all. Meanwhile, Hayley and Jackson attempt to escape through the flooded bayou, even as Marcel finds himself hunted by a dangerous new threat. Finally, Davina is presented with an offer that could allow her the chance to bring back Kol, though it will require her to make a life-altering decision.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzUj2U70dGI

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0kfstqp7fM

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vXEx8RRxvM

[Morrigan2575]

I'm all over the place. Pissed at Klaus for killing Gia and really hate that poor Bex lost her new body. However, if it means Claire Holt is back (semi?) permanently I'll forgive him.

I absolutely loved the fact that he locked the Wolves in Wolf form...keep it that way...please! kind of hate that Cami is still around but figured it was a con when Klaus "killed" her.

looking forward to seeing how this ll works out but I have to admit, after killing Gia and Bex human body, i'm honestly not sure how they being Klaus back from this.

[Gwen-Stacys]

These last few episodes have kind made me into a Klaus fan. When they let him go one full evil rampage...he's every bit as scary as they originally made him out to be on The Vampire Diaries. The fact that he put the crescent moon curse on Hayley (and her pack by extension) instead of killing her....cruel but pretty brilliant. Even when she returns to her human form, she wouldn't dare try to come for hope because her time would be severely limited. Getting back at his siblings for putting him out of commission at such a crucial time (making Elijah watch Gia burn to death/forcing Rebekah to give up her chance to be human)....Even though he can be a whiny bastard (no pun intended) he knows how to get to people (will even drown your mother in a fountain) and that makes him a formidable villain. 

 

I kind of figured he had something up his sleeve whenhe didn't immediately kill Jackson and the other wolves. Nothing's more intimidating than having someone kick your ass, knowing they could end you, and they don't have to try that hard to do it. I've figured all along that Klaus had a plan and that he wasn't bluffing when he said that he knew Dahlia's secret. Elijah's mistake was not hearing him out when Klaus expressed his willingness to share said information. 

[GraceAnne]

Gia dies while Cami still roams the streets of NOLA..... I just don't understand why they keep killing the enjoyable characters while the tedious ones remain... sigh.

[MissL]

Shoot. Was I the only one gleefully saying "ooh kill her. Kill her." When Klaus was walking towards Cami? I mean he was on a roll!

[LeafontheWind]

Here is the problem I now have- this version of Klaus is a great villain. He is formidable and intimidating... but I also kind of hate him. I can't root for someone who is so intentionally cruel to the people he is supposed to care about.

I get that he felt betrayed. I get that he was doing what he felt was necessary to protect his daughter. I even feel a little sorry that everyone is so quick to claim he will be a terrible father without ever giving him a chance. I just don't get why he feels justified in the killing/torturing of so many innocent bystanders (human and *supernatural alike- RIP Gia) for the sake of punishing those who "stabbed him through the heart". I don't see how they bring him back from this and make him the hero (anti-hero?) of the show again unless he can magically reverse everything he did tonight once he kills Dahlia.

*sidenote- I am not taking Haley's side on this or agreeing with what she did last episode. I dislike her and her belief that she gets to make all the decisions for Hope. But I still feel bad for all the wolves who are cursed now because of her poor choices.

[slayer2]

So Plec did kill Gia. Of course she did, she's a minority character that people enjoyed. Well at least I won't have to check in on this fakakta show again and I guess they killed the very talented actress playing Rebekah as well? Didn't they just murder a gay character (of which they had only two) last week? Wow trifecta of biases. Awesome.

And talentless Hayley and boring Cami live another day. The Milquetoast world according to Plec, the very epitome of an unimaginative hack.

Post script: Klaus is a stupid little bitch. Boohoo I was asleep for a week, you put your family to sleep for CENTURIES. The "character" and I use that term loosely, is irredeemable, the vampire version of Stephen Harper. As The Judge would say: "There's no humanity in him."

Edited May 5, 2015 by slayer2

[Carrie Ann]

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Man, after a really solid 2/3 of a season, this last third has been a real bummer, and Gia might be the last straw for me. 

[slayer2]

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Man, after a really solid 2/3 of a season, this last third has been a real bummer, and Gia might be the last straw for me.

Is it petty that I wish the show would get cancelled? This is some Tomorrow People sized bullshit. Who keeps giving this woman shows?? Are they being compelled too?

Edited May 5, 2015 by slayer2

[HunterHunted]

So Plec did kill Gia. Of course she did, she's a minority character that people enjoyed. Well at least I won't have to check in on this fakakta show again and I guess they killed the very talented actress playing Rebekah as well? Didn't they just murder a gay character (of which they had only two) last week? Wow trifecta of biases. Awesome.

And talentless Hayley and boring Cami live another day. The Milquetoast world according to Plec, the very epitome of an unimaginative hack.

I was so fixated on Klaus' petulant tantrum twist that I didn't key in on that aspect, but damn. The show has been so good about creating and retaining well developed minority characters, where the Vampire Diaries has been bad. And to blow up all of their good work in a couple of weeks makes me sad.

[blixie]

Yeah that was awful, I hated every single thing that happened besides Davina ascending to HWIC. And I don't know why I'm sticking around when Daniel Sharman's Kol is clearly not coming back. Killing off Masie's Rebekah AND Gia was tacky, and it's not like Claire is sticking around, that Glamour shot of Klaus, Eligah and Freya? MEH. This is the worst trade off of all time.  

 

.....but just in case Daniel's is back, I'll hang for the last episode. With my luck it will smug smarmy Kol who's back. I'd laugh if Davina was all, You are NOT the Kol I'm looking for!

 

So just to be clear, Plec/Narducci killed off two people of color, had another who was a former slave strung up and tortured, and the last one sacrificed his opportunity at power to a white girl? Okay then. All so Klaus could fake evil to save Hope who could probably have handled Dahlia with twitch of her trybrid nose? So gross.

Edited May 5, 2015 by blixie

[Carrie Ann]

Slight casting spoilers:

Both Daniel Sharman and Nate Buzolic have been cast in projects that I believe will preclude them from being on The Originals as regulars next season, so if they get Kol back, I guess it'll be in a third body?

 

Yeah, I'll finish out this season, but at this point with all the deaths, all that's left for me is Daniel Gillies (and Yusuf Gatewood, but I'm not too enthralled by Vincent as a character yet), and that's probably not enough anymore. They lost the magic somewhere midseason, and now the ratio of bad actors/characters to good is tipping the wrong way. It's a shame.

[blixie]

And also they spent the entire three episode arc with Dahlia saying they know how to kill her, only to then have it blow up in their faces, the whole back half of the season was horribly plotted/paced. I did enjoy Claudia Black, and the character stuff with Klaus, but, if they wanted to take him dark he should have slaughtered Cami and Freya, not Gia and fauxBekah. 

 

Yeah I think Kol will go in an age appropriate hottie body, but like the chemistry between the actors is what made nu Kol/Finn/Bex work so great, particularly the chemistry he Daniel had with Danielle.

FEH.

Edited May 5, 2015 by blixie

[slayer2]

 

So just to be clear, Plec/Narducci killed off two people of color, had another who was a former slave strung up and tortured, and the last one sacrificed his opportunity at power to a white girl? Okay then. All so Klaus could fake evil to save Hope who could probably have handled Dahlia with twitch of her trybrid nose? So gross.

 

Can you believe she even has the gall to faux-protest her white-hetereo supremacist ways at this point? God help any non-white, non-straight actor on her show, Seriously. Hell even the white females, Katherine the incredible, self-preservational, crafty, amazeballs vamp that she was got  turned into Klaus personal bitch for a season then staked by the only person (save for her daughter) that she ever truly loved two seasons later and don't get me started on Rebekah's twisted "relationship" with Klaus. Is it possible for a woman to be a chauvinist? Asking for a friend.

Edited May 5, 2015 by slayer2

[bluebonnet]

 

 

So just to be clear, Plec/Narducci killed off two people of color, had another who was a former slave strung up and tortured, and the last one sacrificed his opportunity at power to a white girl? Okay then. All so Klaus could fake evil to save Hope who could probably have handled Dahlia with twitch of her trybrid nose? So gross.

Oh yes.  I pretty much threw up in my mouth this episode.  How did no one in the writer's room not realize what they were doing?  One of the most diverse shows on tv and they pull this shit.  I wish I used the twitter and facebook stuff so that I could send strongly worded notes to all those in charge.  Please tell me that TPTB are being told on twitter how offensive this episode was.  Can someone here be sure to yell at them?

[monica1992]

So Plec did kill Gia. Of course she did, she's a minority character that people enjoyed. Well at least I won't have to check in on this fakakta show again and I guess they killed the very talented actress playing Rebekah as well? Didn't they just murder a gay character (of which they had only two) last week? Wow trifecta of biases. Awesome.

And talentless Hayley and boring Cami live another day. The Milquetoast world according to Plec, the very epitome of an unimaginative hack.

Post script: Klaus is a stupid little bitch. Boohoo I was asleep for a week, you put your family to sleep for CENTURIES. The "character" and I use that term loosely, is irredeemable, the vampire version of Stephen Harper. As The Judge would say: "There's no humanity in him.

Did u even watch the show? He had to make believe he was really pissed at his siblings. And what exactly would they all have done without Klaus since Freya 's blood wasn't key ingredient, since she is not the witch dahlia loved most. and if klaus stayed daggered dahlia would just kill them . which proves exactly my point that without Klaus his siblings would have never survived for 1000 years, they are simply not smart enough, which doesn't justify his cruelty towards them, but heck, i would rather be daggered than permanently dead .

[slayer2]

Did u even watch the show? He had to make believe he was really pissed at his siblings. And what exactly would they all have done without Klaus since Freya 's blood wasn't key ingredient, since she is not the witch dahlia loved most. and if klaus stayed daggered dahlia would just kill them . which proves exactly my point that without Klaus his siblings would have never survived for 1000 years, they are simply not smart enough, which doesn't justify his cruelty towards them, but heck, i would rather be daggered than permanently dead .

 

 

I'm going to assume this is a joke since you can't "make believe" kill someone, "make believe" torturing is also impossible.

Edited May 5, 2015 by slayer2

[monica1992]

I'm going to assume this is a joke since you can't "make believe" kill someone, "make believe" torturing is also impossible.

By sticking papa tunde's blad into elijah and leaving rebekah with marcel he saved their lives, isn't that obvious, he made believe that it was his punishment since dahlia would have ended them in a second, considering the fact that their plan didn't work since, like dahlia said the blood of a witch she loved the most wasn't freya's , i have to guess ester was the one, but she is dead. so if klaus stayed daggered , and they went through with their plan dahlia would just ended them. I agree killing Gia was a little bit cruel and tad unnessesary,but if my brother put my daughter's life in danger by daggering me, and letting mother , who had no chance against dahlia to run with the baby i would wanna teach him a lesson too, i mean if i was klaus. And he told Cami to pull the blade put, didn't he, and he didn't kill hayley and jackson, who btw would get killed by dahlia in a second too, the curse can be reversed, death can not, by doing that he saved them too Edited May 5, 2015 by monica1992

[Artsda]

I kept waiting for the baby to do something to save Hayley/Jackson and then nothing, what happened to baby powers? Do something Hope!

 

The ONE thing I wanted Klaus to do while on his rampage was kill Cami and that's the thing he doesn't do but also spares her? Ugh Klaus. Klaus's plans are really diabolical, he doesn't care who he kills to get his bottom line. 

[monica1992]

I just asked Narducci on twitter and he said that i was correct, so Klaus did save his siblings , even though Gia part was sad

[bluebonnet]

I just asked Narducci on twitter and he said that i was correct, so Klaus did save his siblings , even though Gia part was sad

That Klaus, such a dreamboat.  Saving his siblings.....of course, only so that he can prolong his torture of them.  What was that vow he made?  "Always and forever, I will torture my brothers and sister always and forever." 

[monica1992]

I just asked Narducci on twitter and he said that i was correct, so Klaus did save his siblings , even though Gia part was sad

Not even once I have seen him torturing them this season, he stood by them , saved them and was overall not a terrible brother. And once again it was their choice to dagger him in crucial moment, when his daughter's life was in danger which would eventually get them killed anyways. So can we all please stop with all this hate towards Klaus.

[HunterHunted]

I've loved the addition of Yusef Gatewood, but the loss of Evabekah and Gia is keenly felt because the show has marginalized many of their female characters, save Hayley. Esther is gone. Freyr and Dahlia are new on the scene. We've gotten so little Marcel this season (not female, but a minority character who was super important in season one). As much as the Mikaelson's battling for supremacy drives the plot of this show, it's the character stuff that gives it place and relevance.

Edited May 5, 2015 by HunterHunted

[bluebonnet]

Not even once I have seen him torturing them this season, he stood by them , saved them and was overall not a terrible brother. And once again it was their choice to dagger him in crucial moment, when his daughter's life was in danger which would eventually get them killed anyways. So can we all please stop with all this hate towards Klaus.

Did you even watch this episode?  Klaus stuck the torture blade into Elijiah.  And that was after he forced Elijiah to watch his lover burn herself to death.  He also tortured Marcel so that he could compel him to do things to Rebekah against his will.  Speaking of Rebekah, he put her in a situation where she may neeed to return to a body she no longer wants.  Oh, and of course, Klaus had no idea that Bex was no longer connected to 18 other children so that would have been 18 more dead bodies on his hands, on top of all the dead random bodies he dropped because he was thirsty.  

 

No one is hating on Klaus.  Pointing out what he does and what sort of person is just being honest.  Being honest is not an indication of hate.  Klaus is a villain.  A juicy lovely villain, one we all love to watch, but a villain nonetheless.  This isn't about character hate, it's about character love.  We accept Klaus as he is.  Perhaps you should, too.  

[monica1992]

Did you even watch this episode?  Klaus stuck the torture blade into Elijiah.  And that was after he forced Elijiah to watch his lover burn herself to death.  He also tortured Marcel so that he could compel him to do things to Rebekah against his will.  Speaking of Rebekah, he put her in a situation where she may neeed to return to a body she no longer wants.  Oh, and of course, Klaus had no idea that Bex was no longer connected to 18 other children so that would have been 18 more dead bodies on his hands, on top of all the dead random bodies he dropped because he was thirsty.  

 

No one is hating on Klaus.  Pointing out what he does and what sort of person is just being honest.  Being honest is not an indication of hate.  Klaus is a villain.  A juicy lovely villain, one we all love to watch, but a villain nonetheless.  This isn't about character hate, it's about character love.  We accept Klaus as he is.  Perhaps you should, too.

He HAD to make it look convincing!!! Otherwise Dahlia wouldn't believe that he was on her side and kill them all. She had to think he was really angry and hated them, and yes Klaus doesn't care about many people , but the ones he care about he will protect no matter what it cost to the rest . And yes, he is the a monster, but his siblings are not innocent either, Edited May 5, 2015 by monica1992

[bluebonnet]

He HAD to make it look convincing!!! Otherwise Dahlia wouldn't believe that he was on her side and kill them all. She had to think he was really angry and hated them, and yes Klaus doesn't care about many people , but the ones he care about he will protect no matter what it cost to the rest .

So, he spent 1000 years torturing his siblings and just generally treating them badly so that he could make it 'look convincing' when it involved the life of a child he never thought he'd have?  Seriously?  Look, even if you made any sense at all, it doesn't change the fact that Klaus actually did these things.  Regardless of the reasons he had this time, he still used torture.  And let's be real, he protects his siblings because he acts as though he has ownership over them.  He wants to be the one who controls when they are tortured and when they are killed.  

 

And not to point out the obvious, but it doens't make Klaus a noble dreamboat when he's willing to murder the entire world just so his siblings can stay around (siblings he loves to torture, mind).  

 

Please stop with this hate towards Klaus.  He doesn't need to be rewritten in order for you to cherish the hour we get to spend with him each weeks.  He just wants to be accepted as he is.  HE JUST WANTS TO BE LOVED FOR WHO HE IS!!!!  

[slayer2]

Not even once I have seen him torturing them this season, he stood by them , saved them and was overall not a terrible brother. And once again it was their choice to dagger him in crucial moment, when his daughter's life was in danger which would eventually get them killed anyways. So can we all please stop with all this hate towards Klaus.

Nope. Not a chance. Murder of my beloved in front of my eyes IS torture, if you're doing it to "save" me then just kill me.

Edited May 5, 2015 by slayer2

[monica1992]

So, he spent 1000 years torturing his siblings and just generally treating them badly so that he could make it 'look convincing' when it involved the life of a child he never thought he'd have?  Seriously?  Look, even if you made any sense at all, it doesn't change the fact that Klaus actually did these things.  Regardless of the reasons he had this time, he still used torture.  And let's be real, he protects his siblings because he acts as though he has ownership over them.  He wants to be the one who controls when they are tortured and when they are killed.  

 

And not to point out the obvious, but it doens't make Klaus a noble dreamboat when he's willing to murder the entire world just so his siblings can stay around (siblings he loves to torture, mind).  

 

Please stop with this hate towards Klaus.  He doesn't need to be rewritten in order for you to cherish the hour we get to spend with him each weeks.  He just wants to be accepted as he is.  HE JUST WANTS TO BE LOVED FOR WHO HE IS!!!!

Would you prefer Dahlia to kill them all and take the child? And Klaus needs to be the monster, to get things done and destrpy his enemies, Machiavelli, anyone?? Cesare Borgia could slit people's throat at a dinner table. When you are that powerful and have so many enemies , you have no other choice but to be ruthless. Klaus has always been surrounded by enemies, hell his father hunted him down for centuries , he had to learn not to care , in order to not to get hurt. Yes he is the monster, but that's what saved him and his family for 1000 years. Even Elijah admitted that, when he said that he always secretly admired his methods of manipulation. And that is his tragedy , being always the bastard , evil, manipulative, cruel , ruthless, because you have no other choice , because once you let your guard down your father will find you and destroy everything you hold dear. Speaking of which because of Rebekah Klaus had to watch his lover burn when Mikael came to New Orleans. Would you prefer Klaus act all nice and be merciful and get them all killed by Dahlia??

[AlliMo]

This is the Klaus I love, the one who's smart and ruthless and terrifying. This is a show about MONSTERS. Nearly all of these people are monsters of some kind, and none of them are better than any other. If I'm going to watch a show about monsters, I expect them to act monstrously. Frankly, everyone around Klaus has been acting like such a colossal moron lately that I'm cheering him on. Hell, I'm kind of cheering Dahlia on, too.

 

I don't care about the werewolves, at all. The only one who was remotely interesting was Aiden, and while they're killing people off, can they please take insipid Hayley and her mushmouthed husband while they're at it.

[Aeryn13]

I think Klaus did put on a show for Dahlia and he used his reputation to make it look convincing. Because Klaus IS the person who does cruel shit like that in short temper so noone questions the validity of it. Just like when on the mother show Damon fake-killed Matt to turn Elena`s switch. Anyone else and we would have gone "pfft, there is a catch and he will be fine" but with Damon, it was like "hm, could happen". Even though there WAS a catch. It was the same with Klaus here. 

 

Something that continually surprises me with the show is that they haven`t really started a true redemption for Klaus. When he got his own show, I thought for sure they would retool the character to make him more woobie-heroic. But for every good act, he always backslides into his previous persona. I kinda give them kudos for that. A supernatural-themed show like this is pretty much the only place where that really works because nearly everyone is or has been a monster.  

[blixie]

I'm trying to keep in mind they didn't actually show Evabekah dead dead, I'm thinking Marcel gave her blood to heal, he was only compelled to kill her if she left, there is no reason he couldn't have saved her life. But that does not change the visual story that was told in this one, and how terrible it was, or that I'd much rather have Gia than Cami/Freya.

[Kaboom 2.0]

Why yes, I did cheer and scare the dog when Klaus attached Cami and made us think he killed her. No such luck. Thanks a lot.

 

I know this show is about monsters and all but I cannot be expected to ever be Team Klaus when he is such an unrepentant dick and asshole. Sure, the actor imbues him with personality and some nuance at times, Klaus sometimes makes me laugh with his comments and observations, but I do not see any growth. He always returns to his default setting of it's my way or the highway, I know best and only I can mete out punishment. Whatever.

 

ITA with others that have posted why we had to lose Gia (and possibly Rebekah-in-Eva's body) and keep dull as dishwater Cami. And for some reason the CW has a hard on for PT as Hayley so of course she wasn't killed, just temporarily put in permanent wolf form so she can be brought back. I know Marcel is a show legacy character so he should be around for awhile but with all this murdering of minority characters, should I fear for my beloved YG as Vincent?? I'm hoping he sticks around to advise and guide Davina as her new role of HWIC.

 

If the spoilers posted above are true I really hope the casting department continues its successful run of hitting it out of the park wrt to finding talented actors.

[Gwen-Stacys]

 should I fear for my beloved YG as Vincent?? I'm hoping he sticks around to advise and guide Davina as her new role of HWIC.

Nah, I though YG was added on as a series regular around the time they got the season 3 renewal?

 

Maybe I had no problem with what Klaus did tonight (even though Gia was essentially canon fodder) because I never got the feeling that his revenge (though mostly plan oriented/done to trick Dahlia) was ever truly about them Daggering him. It was about them letting Hayley run off with his daughter behind his back. Which makes what he did to both siblings (Killing Gia, Elijah's mentee and forcing Rebekah to forfeit her human body) make sense, in that regard. He basically helped him loose his daughter and took him out of the game when Hope needed him most. (A friend of mine, a father, who watches applauded Klaus's restraint because he said he'd have done worse.). And, tbh, if Elijah asks Klaus why he went so far, I hope he answers "For Hope," bringing it all full circle.

[slayer2]

I don't care about Hope. Babies ruin Supernatural shows. All I cared about was Elijah, Gia, Rebekah and NB's Kol.

The first one is doomed to a lonely life of misery due to his asshole brother, the second is dead due to Elijah's asshole brother, the third is recurring and also doomed to a lonely life of misery due to her asshole brother and the last is also dead because his asshole brother was too busy playing footsie with Caroline to bother protecting him.

I also thought this stupid show would bring growth for Klaus but he is the same tantrum throwing, snivelling, pathetic, solipsistic, megalomaniacal douchebag he always has been.

They should have killed Klaus off Season 3 TVD IMO and made DG's Elijah the centrepiece of the show, they could have avoided this whole boot-quaking Freya and Dahlia bit and made Klaus the Dahlia, this is where Plec let's her fangirl feelings take precedence over the show and probably why the ratings are shit.

It just isn't feasible to centre an entire show around a character with zero nuance or likeable qualities. JM tries his best with this dreck but the writing just doesn't support him and I'm not going to excuse a sociopath just because he has pretty eyes. Oh where is Dean Winchester when you need him?

Edited May 5, 2015 by slayer2

[Guest]

There were several posts hidden because you guys were being sarcastic with each other.  Not friendly sarcastic, mean sarcastic.

 

I am going to unhide the posts with the request that you all go back and read what you've written to your fellow members.  Edit your posts with the following in mind:  You don't have to agree with each other, but you do have to be polite.

 

Thank you.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

slayer2, I wish I could like your post more than once. My main issue with Klaus is that despite living for hundreds of years, he still acts like bratty child whenever he doesn't get his way (heh, and he often acts like a bratty child even when he IS getting his way!). The larger problem is that instead of stamping his feet like a regular temper tantrum throwing toddler, he kills his sister's boyfriend, daggers his siblings, or kills some random people/vampires. This would be unattractive behavior for a regular adult but it looks even worse for someone who has had hundreds of years to grow and mature.

 

If you are content to remain an emotionally stunted man child, then I guess that's your prerogative but when you are constantly taking your anger out on your siblings from whom you demand unquestioning loyalty and obedience, that's crossing a line into abusive behavior. You don't get to decide who your siblings love. You don't get to order them around like servants (just remembering how Klaus treated Rebekah like a maid and an errand girl in S1 still annoys me). You don't get to tell them whether or not they can leave and live somewhere without you. You don't get to threaten them every time they dare to disagree with you.

 

The show can't expect me to root for Klaus when he continues to act like a whiny brat about everything while meting out whatever punishment he deems appropriate for the slightest infractions. Like a child, he still believes that the world revolves around him and everyone in his universe exists to serve him and his needs. He's had centuries to work through his daddy issues yet he obviously hasn't.

 

If he had deigned to share his plans with Rebekah and Elijah, they wouldn't have decided to dagger him in the first place. But refusing to tell them anything while blustering on and on about how his secret master plan was the only way to save Hope didn't exactly engender a lot of trust among his siblings.

 

I didn't love Gia (and I totally didn't buy her relationship with Elijah, even in this episode when he kissed her goodbye) but the fact that she and Eva were killed off but we are still stuck with freaking Cami is so frustrating, and that's before you even take race into consideration. I'm guessing they're both gone for good since Gia burst into flames and the real Eva was crazy (unlike Vincent they were able to keep after Finn left his body since Vincent was kind of a blank slate with no back story).

 

ETA: I absolutely can't wait to start watching the fallout from Davina becoming the HWIC. Klaus is definitely going to be mad when she refuses to do his bidding. I hope she gives him some of those awesome witch induced headaches. But it will also be interesting to see what happens when Marcel or Rebekah want her help. I actually liked Davina separating herself from the witches and working on her own this season (and I don't blame her at all - I would be pretty made if my coven tricked me into being a sacrifice). Even though she said she only agreed to become regent so that she can bring Kol back, I think that she is going to enjoy her position - not just the actual magical power but the political power so that she has a say in the witches' role in New Orleans. She is definitely not going to obey the old vampire order not to do any magic in the Quarter so at the very least there is going to be some strife over that. The witches and the vampires are going to have to renegotiate their terms. Witches' rights, bitches!

Edited May 5, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Lady Calypso]

Ok, so with the fact that Klaus is faking and doing all these things to look convincing, it does make more sense, BUT it still basically calls out on how emotionally cruel Klaus really is. It just goes to show that he's always done this and it's nothing new. He kills Elijah's girl to torture him, he gets Marcel to try to kill Rebekah to torture both of them and to get Rebekah in her old body, and he puts Hayley and the wolves in perma-wolf form. Ok, the last part isn't so bad because he can easily get a witch to bring them back (or hopefully through Dahlia's death...though I hope they don't revert the magic and Davina's new status keeps Hayley in wolf form for a while), but the others are pretty bad. 

 

Listen, Klaus' plan may be good and I actually like when he's being smart and ruthless like this. However, I hope he realizes that his siblings have all the right to be equally as pissed off at him for doing these things for the plan. They were never informed because Klaus was stubborn UNTIL Elijah found out about the ashes in the painting. But by then, it was too late. They have every right to shove that dagger right back into his chest for a few months after Dahlia's defeated. Once the danger is over, Klaus should be punished for his actions. Plans or not, he's ruined his siblings' lives for good. He killed someone Elijah cared about and he made sure Rebekah can never get what she wants. Besides, it'll be just the finale anyway. They'll come back next season and they'll rip the dagger out, as long as they flash forward a year or two. Then they can age up Hope and things will be just dandy, as well as Klaus getting his comeuppance for the first time in a long time. H absolutely 100% deserves that after everything he's done to his family, saving them or not. If Elijah and Rebekah can be shoved in a box for months/years because of betrayal, then Klaus can certainly earn the same treatment once in his life. And we can still have Joseph Morgan by the next available episode, so no harm, no foul. 

 

Did I buy Gia/Elijah's relationship? No, not even a little. But I liked Gia as a person and she didn't deserve to die like that, and Elijah shouldn't have watched. Even Dahlia's not that cruel. She didn't make Josh watch Aiden die (ok, granted it was her plan to pin it on Klaus). Again, plan or not, it's still a cruel thing to do to someone. It's like being forced to watch a family member die in front of you. It's hard on anybody, because they can't come back and you're being forced to relive those moments after it happens. It's the worst kind of punishment, definitely a lot worse than physical torture, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Klaus may get the job done and I may agree that he needed to do these things to save Hope, but it also needs to be stated that Klaus deserves the anger that he's going to get from his siblings. Klaus' actions need to have consequences, despite what his intentions are. 

 

I also find that I like Klaus when he's not whining about his siblings betraying him. His line about realizing why his siblings hate him so much after experiencing what they do while daggered was very poignant and I think that was the most honest thing he said throughout the episode. That made me like him more because he's aware of what his siblings have gone through. Will that change him? I'm not sure. I'd hope so, but I have a feeling someone's going to end up daggered next episode. Or maybe I'm wrong, but maybe next season he'll go back to daggering. If the show is smart, they'll have him stop the daggering part because now he knows what it's like. That can't be his go-to plan whenever he gets a temper tantrum, no matter how deserving his siblings are. It's not right. 

[Impish Dragon]

I've figured all along that Klaus had a plan and that he wasn't bluffing when he said that he knew Dahlia's secret. Elijah's mistake was not hearing him out when Klaus expressed his willingness to share said information. 

 

Of course Klaus had a plan.  He's Klaus.  That being said, if I remember correctly, Klaus was only willing to share this information he had with Elijah if Elijah was willing to do as Klaus said.  Elijah was open to whatever would save Hope, but Klaus wasn't willing to part with his idea without conditions and was unwilling to consider any other idea but his own.  I can't say I'm upset that the siblings were trying to do what they thought best to protect the family.  Were they supposed to wait until Klaus decided to let them in on a plan that may or may not work. 

 

On a side note, I'm constantly irritated when one character is always right to the point the other characters are made to look dumb.  It happens a lot with Damon on the mother show.  Whenever a situation comes up, Damon/Klaus has one method of doing things, but the others want to try something else (which in theory could work) but the writers have to show their favoritism by making the other characters fail and going yep should have listened to Klaus/Damon.  Elijah as shown he is capable of coming up with plans and being generally all around BAMF.  Rebekah too.  Why does Klaus have to be the only one who can come up with a plan that works? 

 

I get that he felt betrayed. I get that he was doing what he felt was necessary to protect his daughter. I even feel a little sorry that everyone is so quick to claim he will be a terrible father without ever giving him a chance.

 

I can't recall anyone explicitly stating he would be a bad father. 

 

*sidenote- I am not taking Haley's side on this or agreeing with what she did last episode. I dislike her and her belief that she gets to make all the decisions for Hope. But I still feel bad for all the wolves who are cursed now because of her poor choices.

 

Not trying to start an argument, but hasn't Klaus been doing the same thing?  He has gone around saying he will decide what's best for his daughter.  He completely disregards Haley, and her importance as Hope's mother, unless she's in agreement with him.   He has been treating her as if she was nanny, instructing her to take the child where he tells her.   How is Haley supposed to know what Klaus has planned if he isn't willing to tell her?   Ideally both parents would communicate and make a joint decision for what's best for their child.  Any parent trying to protect their kid is going to do what they think is best and if Klaus isn't willing to discuss it with her, then I can't blame her for doing what she thinks is best.  Did her plan work out?  No, but that doesn't mean it was wrong.  Hell, if Klaus had been willing to work with her, then her leaving might have worked out.  They could have at the very least stalled Dahlia long enough for Haley and Jackson to make it out of town and put distance between them.  Even if they couldn't defeat Dahlia, it may have very well bought enough time for the wolf pack to find someone who could help them protect Hope. 

[bluebonnet]

 

 

Not trying to start an argument, but hasn't Klaus been doing the same thing?  He has gone around saying he will decide what's best for his daughter.  He completely disregards Haley, and her importance as Hope's mother, unless she's in agreement with him.   He has been treating her as if she was nanny, instructing her to take the child where he tells her.   How is Haley supposed to know what Klaus has planned if he isn't willing to tell her?   Ideally both parents would communicate and make a joint decision for what's best for their child.  Any parent trying to protect their kid is going to do what they think is best and if Klaus isn't willing to discuss it with her, then I can't blame her for doing what she thinks is best.  Did her plan work out?  No, but that doesn't mean it was wrong.  Hell, if Klaus had been willing to work with her, then her leaving might have worked out.  They could have at the very least stalled Dahlia long enough for Haley and Jackson to make it out of town and put distance between them.  Even if they couldn't defeat Dahlia, it may have very well bought enough time for the wolf pack to find someone who could help them protect Hope. 

I agree with all this.  Klaus accuses them of doing what he does.  Though, in Klaus' case, it's a bit worse because he treats people like things he owns, including Hope.  So it's all a bit gross and wildly hypocritical when coming from Klaus.

[Gwen-Stacys]

 Not trying to start an argument, but hasn't Klaus been doing the same thing?  He has gone around saying he will decide what's best for his daughter.  He completely disregards Haley, and her importance as Hope's mother, unless she's in agreement with him.   He has been treating her as if she was nanny, instructing her to take the child where he tells her.   How is Haley supposed to know what Klaus has planned if he isn't willing to tell her?   Ideally both parents would communicate and make a joint decision for what's best for their child.  Any parent trying to protect their kid is going to do what they think is best and if Klaus isn't willing to discuss it with her, then I can't blame her for doing what she thinks is best.  Did her plan work out?  No, but that doesn't mean it was wrong.  Hell, if Klaus had been willing to work with her, then her leaving might have worked out.  They could have at the very least stalled Dahlia long enough for Haley and Jackson to make it out of town and put distance between them.  Even if they couldn't defeat Dahlia, it may have very well bought enough time for the wolf pack to find someone who could help them protect Hope. 

 

I don't disagree with you in that Klaus is hard to work with/parent with. But (as a person who's been a child between 2 parents, so my personal issues very well could be coloring my outlook here) Hayley lost any sympathy on that front when she up and left and was, essentially, replacing Klaus with Jackson in Hopes life. And that is NOT fair for anyone -Hope most of all. She would've figured out eventually that Jackson wasn't her father when she started flinging crap around the house with her mind and neither of her "parents" could do the same.

 

So while I can see where the point of view comes from (that she felt like she had no other choice), I didn't feel bad for her at all when it came to her fate. To be honest, she's had a come-uppance coming since she was on TVD and got Tyler's mom killed. Not only that, but she attempted to do to Klaus what he promised her back in season 1 he would never let happen to her (RE: someone taking Hope away from her and her never seeing her daughter again.)

 

Of course Klaus had a plan.  He's Klaus.  That being said, if I remember correctly, Klaus was only willing to share this information he had with Elijah if Elijah was willing to do as Klaus said.  Elijah was open to whatever would save Hope, but Klaus wasn't willing to part with his idea without conditions and was unwilling to consider any other idea but his own.  I can't say I'm upset that the siblings were trying to do what they thought best to protect the family.  Were they supposed to wait until Klaus decided to let them in on a plan that may or may not work.

 

 

The only stipulation I remember being that they leave Freya out. He said he knew Dahlia's secret (and it's heavily implied that it's why he didn't trust Freya) and was more than willing to share. And, in the end, he kinda did when he had Cammie relay it after he started setting his original trap for Dahlia. Klaus a monster that lashes out to the umpth degree when he feels wronged. He's a megalomaniac, but he's literally never claimed to be anything different. Maybe that's why I've never hated him even though he wasn't my favorite? IDK.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Gwen-Stacys

[bluebonnet]

I don't think removing Hope from a dangerous parent automatically means lying to her about her genetic history.  Jackson raising Hope wouldn't have somehow meant that they couldn't be honest about her origins.  It's like how when Rebekah was raising hope, we didn't assume that Bex would lie to the child about their relationship.  

[monica1992]

Everyone is just too mad, because Klaus outsmarted every single one of them , which exactly proves my point that he is waaaay smarter than his siblings. Can we just look at a bigger picture for a second??? Let's say Klaus stay daggered. They go through with a plan, Dahlia realizes it is a fake baby, but she is still immortal , because of freya's blood, kills them all within a second, finds Hayley, which would not be that difficult, kills her , Jackson and the whole wolf pack and disappears with baby Hope. Do u really think that Klaus after realising what could have happened to all of them, and especially Hope, has he not been undaggered by Dahlia could be calm and risk anything. Dahlia is extremely calculative and smart she had to believe that Klaus is on her side , she obviously heard of his cruelty towards his enemies and Klaus by doing what he did ,distracted her attention from actually killing the ones he cared about , even hayley, because dahlia was determined to kill her , death is iireversible , curse is. Or would you have preferred Elijah realising that because of his stupidity he notnonly lost his niece but also the woman he actually loved, knowing his guilt , i doubt he would have survived , because that would have been solely on him. What would you have Klaus do??? After they chose to take him outmbefore the battle, Elijah didn't undagger him , even after finding out that he didn't kill Aiden and that he was right by not trusting Freya because she wanted to use Hope as bait.. He made his choice, he risked Hope's life , why is Klaus is the one to blame again?? Did we all care so much about Gia??? really doubtful.

[monica1992]

I don't care about Hope. Babies ruin Supernatural shows. All I cared about was Elijah, Gia, Rebekah and NB's Kol.

The first one is doomed to a lonely life of misery due to his asshole brother, the second is dead due to Elijah's asshole brother, the third is recurring and also doomed to a lonely life of misery due to her asshole brother and the last is also dead because his asshole brother was too busy playing footsie with Caroline to bother protecting him.

I also thought this stupid show would bring growth for Klaus but he is the same tantrum throwing, snivelling, pathetic, solipsistic, megalomaniacal douchebag he always has been.

They should have killed Klaus off Season 3 TVD IMO and made DG's Elijah the centrepiece of the show, they could have avoided this whole boot-quaking Freya and Dahlia bit and made Klaus the Dahlia, this is where Plec let's her fangirl feelings take precedence over the show and probably why the ratings are shit.

It just isn't feasible to centre an entire show around a character with zero nuance or likeable qualities. JM tries his best with this dreck but the writing just doesn't support him and I'm not going to excuse a sociopath just because he has pretty eyes. Oh where is Dean Winchester when you need him?

Once again are you sure you have been watching vampire diaries???? Klaus was the only one who went to Elena's house to save Kol, the only one who actually mourned him and try to avenge him, it literally took Rebakah 2 seconds to get over it and be friends with Salvatores and Elijah was feeling sorry for Elena's loss. Can you please stop blaming Klaus for everything that happens. Elijah had freedom to go wherever he wants throughout the history , Klaus never forced him to stay, he knew that Klaus was monster, he chose to stick by him, if you ask me i think Elijah preferred having a purpose, being a noble one, tortured by evil monster, whilst hiding behind red door, he killed tatia too don't forget the woman klaus loved. And whether u like it or not 80% of the audience are Klaus fans, that's why Klaus centered episodes have higher ratings, hell we have originals mainly because his character was so popular on tvd Edited May 5, 2015 by monica1992

[BkWurm1]

I've never watched the Originals, never even watched The Vampire Diaries (Vampires not my thing) but lately every time I go to watch Jane the Virgin I see some snipit of a scene with Claudia Black being evil and elegant and awesome and I wish I was watching. 

[Gwen-Stacys]

I don't think removing Hope from a dangerous parent automatically means lying to her about her genetic history.  Jackson raising Hope wouldn't have somehow meant that they couldn't be honest about her origins.  It's like how when Rebekah was raising hope, we didn't assume that Bex would lie to the child about their relationship.  

But dangerous to whome? Not to Hope herself. Hayley's also a dangerous parent (and one who makes questionable decisions always, not just on TO but also on TVD where her character originated). Hayley, no matter how she tries to paint it, decided to run off with her baby because her husband gave her an ultimatum and she chose to stay with him. She says on the the voice message she left that it's too dangerous for Hope to be a Mikaelson (not taking into account that running off and raising her with different people does nothing to change her parentage in the slightest. The whole quarter knew Hope was Klaus' daughter, the whole Quarter did not abscond to the bayou), I took that to mean she planned on erasing Klaus 100% from her daughter's life. And if she did tell her, it wouldn't be until she was grown.

[Lady Calypso]

Once again are you sure you have been watching vampire diaries???? Klaus was the only one who went to Elena's house to save Kol, the only one who actually mourned him and try to avenge him, it literally took Rebakah 2 seconds to get over it and be friends with Salvatores and Elijah was feeling sorry for Elena's loss. Can you please stop blaming Klaus for everything that happens. Elijah had freedom to go wherever he wants throughout the history , Klaus never forced him to stay, he knew that Klaus was monster, he chose to stick by him, if you ask me i think Elijah preferred having a purpose, being a noble one, tortured by evil monster, whilst hiding behind red door, he killed tatia too don't forget the woman klaus loved. And whether u like it or not 80% of the audience are Klaus fans, that's why Klaus centered episodes have higher ratings, hell we have originals mainly because his character was so popular on tvd

 

I'll agree, that part was utterly stupid. Everything to do with TVD season 4 was stupid, though, to be perfectly honest. They never got down characterizations like they used to in that season so everything was a mess. But as for Elijah having freedom, I honestly don't think he ever did. He had freedom to go chase after Katherine for Klaus, but that's about it. The thing is that we haven't seen much of the Mikaelsons in other centuries, so we don't really know. Also, just to point out, the whole Tatia thing? Very, very contrived and we've gotten all of three lines before this season started about her. But we do know both Klaus and Elijah loved Tatia, so Elijah also killed the woman he fell in love with, and that was very early on into his vampirism, and I think the first instance where Esther realized what a mistake she made. 

 

But saying 80% of fans are Klaus fans is not fact. It's like saying 80% of TVD audiences are Delena fans, or that Hayley is the most popular female on The Originals, because there's no way to prove that. I can't speak for why they created the spinoff, other than I think that they enjoyed Joseph Morgan's portrayal of Klaus and they wanted to span further into the Mikaelson's backstory altogether. But all of this is getting off topic anyway so I think if we wanted to continue an insightful discussion, maybe another thread would be best to move to? Is there an all episodes thread? Or perhaps the Klaus thread itself?

Edited May 5, 2015 by Lady Calypso

[bluebonnet]

But dangerous to whome? Not to Hope herself. Hayley's also a dangerous parent (and one who makes questionable decisions always, not just on TO but also on TVD where her character originated). Hayley, no matter how she tries to paint it, decided to run off with her baby because her husband gave her an ultimatum and she chose to stay with him. She says on the the voice message she left that it's too dangerous for Hope to be a Mikaelson (not taking into account that running off and raising her with different people does nothing to change her parentage in the slightest. The whole quarter knew Hope was Klaus' daughter, the whole Quarter did not abscond to the bayou), I took that to mean she planned on erasing Klaus 100% from her daughter's life. And if she did tell her, it wouldn't be until she was grown.

Obviously Klaus is dangerous to everyone.  Acknowledging this isn't the same as saying that Hayley poses no danger as a parent.  

 

I'm not really sure I get your point with the other part, or what the Quarter has to do with it. Stating that it's too dangerous for Hope to be a Mikaelson isn't at all saying that Hayley intended to keep Hope's genetic history a secret.  She can be raised as a Jackson and still be taught that she is genetically a Mikaelson (well, actually not since Klaus isn't, but you get the point).  I took Hayley's comments to mean that she intended to remove Hope from the Circle of Death that follows the Mikaelsons, not that she planned on pretending that Hope had an entirely different genetic history.  

 

To be clear, I'm not making a value judgement on whether or not her plan was sound.  Without a good witch in their pocket, it was dumb.  However, if I were a judge, I would award Hayley and Jackson custody because Klaus' behavior indicates that he's going to continue to rack up enemies who will team up with his 1000 years worth of enemies and thus continue to put Hope's life in danger.  Of the two parents, one appears to have the ability to rehabilitate herself while the other doesn't.  Perhaps this might change, but since I'm a hypothetical judge, I can only judge on behavior now, not behavior in the future.  

[slayer2]

Once again are you sure you have been watching vampire diaries???? Klaus was the only one who went to Elena's house to save Kol, the only one who actually mourned him and try to avenge him, it literally took Rebakah 2 seconds to get over it and be friends with Salvatores and Elijah was feeling sorry for Elena's loss. Can you please stop blaming Klaus for everything that happens. Elijah had freedom to go wherever he wants throughout the history , Klaus never forced him to stay, he knew that Klaus was monster, he chose to stick by him, if you ask me i think Elijah preferred having a purpose, being a noble one, tortured by evil monster, whilst hiding behind red door, he killed tatia too don't forget the woman klaus loved. And whether u like it or not 80% of the audience are Klaus fans, that's why Klaus centered episodes have higher ratings, hell we have originals mainly because his character was so popular on tvd

I am watching the same show however I don't like Klaus and don't excuse his sociopathic behaviour due to the reasons I've mentioned above and several others I've posted beyond this episode. I don't think Hope's life rates higher than Gia's or Rebekah's or Elijah's happiness or any other vamp simply because she belongs to Klaus. What he feels for her isn't love it's possesion. I don't think Klaus is capable of love.

I've never watched the Originals, never even watched The Vampire Diaries (Vampires not my thing) but lately every time I go to watch Jane the Virgin I see some snipit of a scene with Claudia Black being evil and elegant and awesome and I wish I was watching.

Trust me, you really don't. If Laurel gives you problems, Klaus will make you wish television was never invented. Yes, it's THAT bad. Imagine Malcolm times a trillion, unkillable and with ZERO accountability, so basically unkillable Malcolm times a trillion. Edited May 6, 2015 by slayer2