Behind The Scenes: The Drama Behind the Drama

[windsprints]

I hope its OK to start this thread. I thought maybe we could all continue the discussion about Shonda/actors on the show in general, writers, scandal, etc. here since there's a lot to say that isn't just about PD leaving.

[Deanie87]

Thanks for the new thread Windsprints! I guess Twitter talk can go in here too.

I have never wanted to see an E! True Hollywood Story more than this one. It might have to be a mini-series.

[windsprints]

I think any person can have good and bad relationships with people the work with/for/work for them. Those relationships can shift and change. I don't think Shonda is quite as evil as made out to be by some fans but I also can believe she can be vindictive, difficult, and so on.

I don't blame Shonda for getting rid of Heigl, but I do blame her for the hateful things she said about her. Honestly, who does that? What's the purpose? It's vindictive, and shows a lack of character.

 

KH quit, Shonda didn't get rid of her and I think that distinction is important; the control isn't with Shonda. My perception is that Shonda (at least publicly) is fine with actors she terminates.  I know most hate KH but I like her. Still, I thought the way she chose to leave the show was shitty. Had she sucked it up and found a way to negotiate to finish out the season perhaps Shonda wouldn't have held the anger for so long. That being said, I do agree that it came across as vindictive all these years later.

She is off with Kerry and Viola, happy with new success. She moved on and handed off Grey's to her underlings. So she may resent having to come back and deal with Patrick problems.  It can't be easy accommodating his racing career. It has to cause resentment with others on set.

 

I don't think its at all odd for a showrunner with multiple shows to hand off the longest running and well established show. Most seem to do this, don't they? David Kelly, Jason Katims, Julie Plec are a few that come to mind that released some, if not all, control of day to day operations of the long running show and step in and out as needed. I have no idea if it causes resentment but I have a hard time believing it would.

Either Shondaland is a particularly miserable place to work (unless you're one of her favorites) compared to other shows or ABC/Shonda go out of their way to make public the type of disputes that on other shows stay private. Frankly, I lean toward the latter. I think they use matters that should be kept private to garner publicity for the show and boost ratings.

 

I think it happens and some shows cover/deal with it better than others.  A couple of examples: David Caruso leaving NYPD Blue, Mandy Patinkin leaving Chicago Hope the first time, Mandy Patinkin leaving Criminal Minds (worse than the CH exit), Sherry Stringfield leaving ER (both times), Alex Kingston leaving ER and some other shorter term ER exits. Had these shows been at the height of their popularity as blogging, message boards and later social media were at their heights I think at least some of them would have gotten the same treatment as the Grey's exits have received. The information was still made public but it didn't spread as fast and wide or stay in the forefront being discussed for weeks.

I tend not to believe Shonda is not a horrible boss like fans make her out to be is because I remember way back when everyone thought Ellen, Patrick and Sandra would leave after season 6.

 

Money is certainly a reason for people to stay but if Shonda was this vile, evil boss that was horrible to deal with after a while (let's face it these people are millionaires many times over) even money wouldn't keep people in a miserable working environment. Its not like the actors on Grey's are talentless hacks who wouldn't be able to get other jobs. Even if they don't get leading, starring roles they certainly could be working actors and earn a living. Actors, writers, directors, crew also seem to go from show to show (yes, again money and steady work can easily be a part of that).

She gets some constructive criticisms and questions but usually they are demanded rudely or tweeted 1,000 times. I definitely have my issues with Shonda, but being "thin-skinned" about the bullshit she gets tweeted isn't one of them. She's a TV writer not Hitler FFS.

 

I haven't looked at what is sent to Shonda via twitter in awhile. If its the same as it was for a few years I can't blame her for blocking anyone who was nasty and/vile towards her. I do think she should have made the choice to ignore some of the crazies instead of engaging them. Perhaps she is getting there. She doesn't seem to answer many tweets this season.

I have never wanted to see an E! True Hollywood Story more than this one. It might have to be a mini-series.

 

 

10 parter! 

 

[Eolivet]

I've only read the occasional gossip on Grey's over the years (so I may have a few things wrong), but from my impression, Shonda's tenure on Grey's has been fraught with so many ups and downs, it makes sense that her logo is a rollercoaster:

 

First off, I absolutely believe that she didn't think Isaiah Washington deserved to be fired. I always thought it seemed she would've been content to let things die down or smooth things over, and was mad the network made her do it. I think the fallout poisoned her relationship with Heigl and Knight, and was the inciting incident that caused everything that happened after that. I also believe the network forced Shonda to remain quieter on this and a variety of subjects than she might've wanted to be.

 

Because I believe due to a combination of Shonda's relative lack of experience and the show's meteoric success, ABC meddled in Grey's a lot more than they would have with an experienced showrunner. From (in my opinion) mandating the Washington firing to the abrupt firing of Brooke Smith to the parade of actors with ABC contracts she was clearly forced to find a place for (Melissa George and Kim Raver, to name at least two) to the network mandating Derek and Meredith get together in season 5, I think Shonda was at the mercy of ABC (more than someone else with a hit show) for a long time.

 

Then Private Practice launches and is a modest hit, but Off the Map is a colossal failure. And suddenly, Shonda is just a veteran showrunner with one successful show and one decently performing show. Which is when I think the network started to leave her alone -- she was experienced and they had bigger fish to fry. During that time (I think my timeline is correct), Leigh and Dane leave. For the most part, I think the network let Shonda just handle that on her own (though Dane's rumored extracurricular activities might've given him the old Disney push out the door).

 

Then Scandal launches and blows up. And suddenly...Shonda is not just a veteran showrunner with one successful show, but two successful shows -- including the hottest show on TV. Suddenly...the network needs Shonda a little more than they used to in the past. Which gives Shonda a lot more power and control. She is now in a position to demand things. I can't remember the last time I saw a mandated ABC network hire on the show. You think the network meddles in Scandal at all? That show got rid of their mandated network hire at the end of the first season!

 

All of this walk down Shonda memory lane is basically to say I wonder if she was forced to keep herself in check over the years, and now that she is the most powerful person on ABC primetime, her attitude has shifted. I don't want to say "gone to her head," because I think she's earned every last shred of success. But I feel like her tenure on Grey's has gone from practically no control to a standard amount of control to almost all the control. It must be a very heady feeling.

 

Finally, I feel like she's more involved in the past couple seasons of Grey's -- last year due to Scandal's shortened season and now that Scandal is in its fourth year, she doesn't have to babysit it quite so much. Maybe the long-timers like Oh and Dempsey got used to having her less involved? Maybe they got used to doing things a certain way and when she took on a larger role in the running of the show, it became less pleasant for them?

 

Again, I am a huge fan of Shonda -- I respect her so much, I love her worldview, I think she writes terrific dialogue and I adore her shows. But I do know a lot can happen when control shifts, and I just wonder if the last two seasons have been the fallout from that.

[Deanie87]

I haven't looked at what is sent to Shonda via twitter in awhile. If its the same as it was for a few years I can't blame her for blocking anyone who was nasty and/vile towards her. I do think she should have made the choice to ignore some of the crazies instead of engaging them. Perhaps she is getting there. She doesn't seem to answer many tweets this season.

I am a relative newbie to Twitter and some other forms of social media and I admit to being fascinated/horrified by some of the stuff that people put out there, so sometimes I just randomly search out stuff to be repulsed by lol!

I know that people will often say stuff online anonymously that they wouldn't elsewhere (see any of my bitter Alex rants), but let me tell you, there are some legit sociopaths in this fandom! My morbid curiosity has led me to some stuff that gets tweeted to the actors and other fans and wow. I've noticed that some actors don't tweet as much and I can't blame them.

As far as Shonda, I think that she probably takes things personally but she seems to be loyal to her actors as long as they are loyal to her (granted, that may be an easy line to cross), and plenty of actors agree to work with her again and again.

Ugh, how did I become a Shonda defender?

ETA - that makes a lot of sense Eolivet! Shonda has been through a lot in the last 10 years, gained confidence, made mistakes and learned from them and maybe has gotten a little arrogant as well. My show opinions differ a lot from hers apparently, but she has worked for what she has.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Deanie87

[windsprints]

Eolivet I think you can add in the changes at ABC too - McPherson exit and Paul Lee taking over. 

[AnitaM86]

I am a relative newbie to Twitter and some other forms of social media and I admit to being fascinated/horrified by some of the stuff that people put out there, so sometimes I just randomly search out stuff to be repulsed by lol!

NOOOOOO! Bad idea. Find a good group and stick to it. Searching stuff on Twitter is the worst. Just by checking the replies to the actors' tweets, you want to hide under your bed and never leave knowing that humanity allows this to happen. Facebook & YouTube comments, just no. 

 

My morbid curiosity has led me to some stuff that gets tweeted to the actors and other fans and wow. I've noticed that some actors don't tweet as much and I can't blame them.

Agreed. When the virginity tweets come out, time to hide. I just can imagine how WTF must they feel when they read these kind of idiotic stuff. Not to mention those who can't differentiate the character from the actor/actress. Those are a gem.

 

You think the network meddles in Scandal at all?

 

They have to in some way. I've only read about HBO having a  "no meddling" policy (in most cases) for the shows but given that network shows are different, I assume that they get involved in some way. Surely the execs know they can't take advantage of SR & Co. but I don't believe that if Shonda made a decision that the network believes that could affect them in any way, that they wouldn't get invovled.

 

I don't think its at all odd for a showrunner with multiple shows to hand off the longest running and well established show.

 

 

Me neither, especially when the show is given to people who have been a part of the show forever. Their ideas may not all be great but at least they know what show they're working on and aren't newbies who may not know how the system is.

 

I have never wanted to see an E! True Hollywood Story more than this one. It might have to be a mini-series.

Word. I'll bring the popcorn. This would be an amazing story. 

[Deanie87]

Facebook & YouTube comments.

My own friends and family have made me run screaming away from FB, so I am good there, and never read CNN or YT comments...I'm not that much of a newbie :)

When the virginity tweets come out, time to hide.

I know that my response should be "I don't even want to know." However...just please tell me that it doesn't have to do with men old enough to be their fathers (and some who have teenaged daughters) deflowering them.

*runs off to be horrified by Twitter*

[AnitaM86]

just please tell me that it doesn't have to do with men old enough to be their fathers (and some who have teenaged daughters) deflowering them.

It has everything to do with this. Also, calling them Dad at the same time. Talk about daddy issues. 

 

I can't with these kids. 

[windsprints]

*shudder* 

I'm so grossed out.

[choclatechip45]

I'm not the biggest Shonda fan, the whole squealing over Greys couples and McDreamy always wore on my nerves. I don't really blame her for the things she has said about Heigl in press even recently. I don't care who you are I think it's really shitty to not show up to work and complain about long days when they were put in place to work around your schedule. Plus after her movie career failed due to her own behavior she decided to go to the press and say she wanted to come back to Greys!

[LakeLover]

I don't think Shonda is a vile, evil boss - but I believe she can be petty and vindictive to certain cast members, and she's a relentless self promoter, which I find off putting. She also engages fans in a way that's way too odd for someone of her stature. You need a thick skin to be a public figure - I know I could never do it. A good example of how to handle it is seeing of all the ridicule Patrick Dempsey gets when he makes a spelling error, due to dyslexia. He doesn't lay into the fans, he ignores it. Shonda needs to either accept the fact that social media is full of crazies and ignore them, or get off of social media. I agree, there is no excuse for people being rude, threatening her, using racist terms, or anything of the sort. But, welcome to the Internet.

 

WRT Heigl, Katie handled it all kinds of wrong, but Shonda did, too. Shonda could have taken the high road and she chose not to. TR was publicly humiliated and came out, perhaps with a timing that was not his own. He had so few lines, everyone was wondering what was going on. Then his character is hit and dragged by a bus. God forbid he transfer to a different program. Tim Daly from PP getting canned without even a personal phone call - she calls his agent. I've headed up an office, and I've had to fire people, and discipline people, and there's a proper, respectful way to do it, even if the employee is an ass.

 

Talking about tomorrow's episode:

If Derek dies tomorrow, think of how it can happen - alone, with no friends or family members, in a Porsche, from a car accident, talking about not driving fast enough, with that song playing. Dear God, that's just sick. I hope I'm wrong about what's coming, but when you hear hoofs, think horses, not zebras.

Edited April 22, 2015 by LakeLover

[AnitaM86]

I don't care who you are I think it's really shitty to not show up to work

I had no idea she didn't show up to work. I knew about complaining of the 17 hour day work but not that she didn't show up. Well, I can see Shonda's POV better with that.

[choclatechip45]

I had no idea she didn't show up to work. I knew about complaining of the 17 hour day work but not that she didn't show up. Well, I can see Shonda's POV better with that.

She was supposed to come back after her maternity leave and appear in the final 5 episodes of season 6. It was reported at the time she did not show to set and the writers had to scramble to re write episodes last minute.

[pennben]

If anyone really ever wondered how awful Twitter can get, just watch Shonda's mentions tomorrow if Derrick is killed off.  Although, I'm not sure it could be worse than when she dissed Lady Gaga.....whew.....UGLY.

[stopthestatic]

I had no idea she didn't show up to work. I knew about complaining of the 17 hour day work but not that she didn't show up. Well, I can see Shonda's POV better with that.

 

The story about her not 'showing up' isn't true though - 

 

The plan was for you to return to the set on March 1 and stick around through the end of the season. But you didn’t show up on March 1. Why?

HEIGL: I went on my family leave and spent three months in Utah and just got to be a mom, and it changed my whole perspective…. That was really the turning point for me. So before I was due back, I spoke again to Shonda about wanting to leave. Then I waited at home until I was given the formal okay that I was off the show. The rumors that I refused to return were totally untrue.

 

[choclatechip45]

All I know is she was supposed to show up March 1st and didn't. Who knows how much notice she gave even that quote she admits to staying at home before she was given the formal okay to being off the show. It was really no secret Katherine wanted off the show and could have finished season 6. I think it was a big slap in the face when Katherine's movie career tanked she suddenly wanted to come back to Grey's. I know as someone who was a fan of hers at one point it was.

[windsprints]

If anyone really ever wondered how awful Twitter can get, just watch Shonda's mentions tomorrow if Derrick is killed off.

 

Patrick Dempsey's probably won't be much better.  Guessing there will be many that turn on him instantly.

[stopthestatic]

All I know is she was supposed to show up March 1st and didn't. Who knows how much notice she gave even that quote she admits to staying at home before she was given the formal okay to being off the show. It was really no secret Katherine wanted off the show and could have finished season 6. I think it was a big slap in the face when Katherine's movie career tanked she suddenly wanted to come back to Grey's. I know as someone who was a fan of hers at one point it was.

 

I guess you're right. I wonder if Izzie would've been shot and killed in the season 6 finale had Katie returned to finish out the season and not returned for season 7?

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

Patrick Dempsey's probably won't be much better.  Guessing there will be many that turn on him instantly.

 

Unfortunately, I suspect you're right.  He's going to get blamed for "messing up" MerDer.  And I suspect that it will only get worse for him if it turns out that it was his decision to leave and that becomes public knowledge.  Too many people are too self-centered and just don't have enough respect for others.

[pennben]

I kind of love that we are all bracing for hellfire and brimstone tomorrow night!  And if he lives, we'll all be like...."huh, didn't see that coming".

[stopthestatic]

I kind of love that we are all bracing for hellfire and brimstone tomorrow night!  And if he lives, we'll all be like...."huh, didn't see that coming".

 

At this point I'll actually be MORE irritated at the writers if he lives. Because all of those significant MerDer moments in the last three episodes will have been for manipulation more than anything else. Not to mention the episode title, song use and promos.

 

But yeah, it's gonna hit the fan on Twitter. And I actually feel worse for the other actors who aren't involved, more than I do for Shonda and Patrick. You can bet that Ellen, Justin, Camilla, Jessica, Sara, Jesse, Sarah etc will ALL be getting angry, crazy tweets for the foreseeable future if he dies.

[JayCeeJ]

If PD did request an early release from his contract, I'm sure it will be made public and he will catch plenty of heat over it. (Fortunately, I don't think he ever reads his mentions, and I'll bet he's very glad to be out of the country at the moment.) 

 

I don't believe he's a saint, but I sure couldn't blame him for wanting out. He's been underutilized for years, and that's got nothing to do with his schedule. There have been many times that his character has been set up for potentially meaty material, but the writers have never followed through. That's got to get old. He's never publicly dissed the show or his colleagues, and by all accounts has been consistently gracious with fans. While everyone else associated with the show focuses on promoting whatever the writers have cooked up, he's the only one I've ever seen ask what the fans would like to see on the show, and that impressed me.

 

I'm convinced a Shondaland tell-all would be a fascinating read. Maybe someday ...

[AnitaM86]

You can bet that Ellen, Justin, Camilla, Jessica, Sara, Jesse, Sarah etc will ALL be getting angry, crazy tweets for the foreseeable future if he dies.

I can see Ellen being crazy attacked but not sure if the rest will. Camilla seems like she is a fangirl like many and constantly tweets about her #TeamMerDer love. I think it'll be mostly Shonda, Patrick & the Grey's account being overloaded by hatred. The rest may get some but not as bad.

 

And if he lives, we'll all be like...."huh, didn't see that coming".

 

 

Or perhaps we will go "Oh for fuck's sake! He's fine?! This is bullshit!" There is no win-win in this scenario. 

 

If PD did request an early release from his contract, I'm sure it will be made public and he will catch plenty of heat over it. (Fortunately, I don't think he ever reads his mentions, and I'll bet he's very glad to be out of the country at the moment.)

Agreed. No need for that shitstorm over him to top off the non-fantastic year he's been having. I'm guessing, like the KH case, that most blame will be placed on him and unfortunately, ABC & SR do have the "we did everything to make his racing schedule comfortable" card to play, making him look worse (despite the fact that more reasonable people could see this in a more rational way). Surely when PD goes public on this decision, which I don't think it would be in the near future, maybe things will change but assuming this is his swan song, I wonder how both will handle his (alleged) exit. 

 

Also, the whole "diva" article would grant some validity and that infuriates me because it's Page Six and these dudes can be nasty on many things.

[Featherhat]

I’d love to hear the real inside scoop about what happened during “chokegate”. IW gave out 7 million conflicting accounts after he was let go and I wonder if the original gawker report was accurate or something even crazier went down.

I have to say that IW has only himself to blame that he got fired. ABC/SR were well underway with sweeping it all under the rug and he opened it up again in the most stupid way possible by butting in at the Globes. After that and constant reports that the cast was at war with each other, the season when it took on CSI and won for the first time, ABC wasn’t going to risk it any further. If he’d kept his mouth shut at the GG he might still be employed on the show.

It was so obvious on screen that SR and TRK never recovered from that. There were two episodes where I knew he wasn’t long for the show when he had one 20 second scene when Lexie tells him to go away and another where they’re stilling down to lunch and he gets up and walks away for no reason and with no explanation.

[choclatechip45]

I guess you're right. I wonder if Izzie would've been shot and killed in the season 6 finale had Katie returned to finish out the season and not returned for season 7?

I've always wondered what her storyline would have been the last 5 episode of season 6. In all honesty I have no idea if I am right. Katie's behavior was really bizzare around that time she went through 3 different publicists and the last one fired her which was super strange at the time because that publicist was trying to start her own agency and having Katie would have been huge. I always thought Katie's comments this past fall made her sound guilty but dosent want to admit to any wrong doings. She even admitted to watching scandal I don't know if I would watch one of Shondas shows if she was saying such untrue things about me in the press.

Edited April 23, 2015 by choclatechip45

[windsprints]

I don't believe he's a saint, but I sure couldn't blame him for wanting out. He's been underutilized for years, and that's got nothing to do with his schedule. There have been many times that his character has been set up for potentially meaty material, but the writers have never followed through. That's got to get old.

Other than a few exceptions I think this holds true for most of the cast. This has been true for him pretty much from the beginning. Its nothing new. He extended his contract (I think these are the correct years) sometime before the initial one expired in season 6, after season 8 and after season 10. I have a difficult time seeing how lack of material could suddenly be the issue mid-season 11.

I can see Ellen being crazy attacked but not sure if the rest will. Camilla seems like she is a fangirl like many and constantly tweets about her #TeamMerDer love. I think it'll be mostly Shonda, Patrick & the Grey's account being overloaded by hatred. The rest may get some but not as bad.

I can see others getting tweeted but not really attacked. Its not like they had any control at all over the situation - his contract was with ABC, Shonda is the one who wrote him out (if this episode is it) and he's the one leaving.  I followed Camilla's mentions for awhile and because she often interacts with fans she did (not sure if she still does) get many "what about Ellen?", "what about Patrick?" tweets from MerDer fans all the time. Fan or not that has to get old for an actress when the actors being asked about are also on social media. So, I can unfortunately see those type of tweets being sent to every actor but I can't see any attacking kind of tweets to the other actors.

 

There's so many questions surrounding his exit (if he's going) that it makes it impossible to judge. Did he ask for those episodes off? Was it his choice to leave? Was he contracted to stay through next season in full? If his choice, when did this all come about? How much notice did the show have?  He may have worked it all out amicably or he may be leaving just as unprofessionally as KH was perceived to have left, IMO we just don't know at this point. Either way, it is what it is and I wouldn't hold it against him just as I didn't hold KH's exit against her. Its a job for them and sometimes work relationships end badly but that doesn't make someone a bad person. I'd watch his future projects. 

I have to say that IW has only himself to blame that he got fired. ABC/SR were well underway with sweeping it all under the rug and he opened it up again in the most stupid way possible by butting in at the Globes.

 

I agree. It was going away and that changed everything.

Edited April 23, 2015 by windsprints

[LakeLover]

This is fast becoming my favorite thread!

 

I would hope any backlash wouldn't affect any of the actors. Shonda will take a hit, Patrick may as well.

 

And then, it could be that it's all one big fake out. I am not holding my breath, and I'm not sure there's enough creativity for this to be so, but I'd be weirdly happy and sad all at once. I really need to disconnect from this show. If he lives, I may try to take a vacation from everything Grey's until September.

[Eolivet]

I’d love to hear the real inside scoop about what happened during “chokegate”. IW gave out 7 million conflicting accounts after he was let go and I wonder if the original gawker report was accurate or something even crazier went down.

I have to say that IW has only himself to blame that he got fired. ABC/SR were well underway with sweeping it all under the rug and he opened it up again in the most stupid way possible by butting in at the Globes. After that and constant reports that the cast was at war with each other, the season when it took on CSI and won for the first time, ABC wasn’t going to risk it any further. If he’d kept his mouth shut at the GG he might still be employed on the show.

It was so obvious on screen that SR and TRK never recovered from that. There were two episodes where I knew he wasn’t long for the show when he had one 20 second scene when Lexie tells him to go away and another where they’re stilling down to lunch and he gets up and walks away for no reason and with no explanation.

 

What was the original gawker report? It's been years, but I remember something along the lines of Washington taking exception to Knight (being late to set, I think?), they got into it, Washington called him a slur, and Dempsey had to basically break it up.

 

I agree that speaking up during the Globes was probably the straw that broke the camel's back, but I still think Shonda felt it was wrong to fire him. Maybe she understood it, but she didn't like it. I just have to think if she'd been 100% supportive of Knight, things wouldn't have deteriorated with him and then with Heigl. And maybe I'm wrong, but I think she had to fight ABC (and ultimately won) to bring Washington back. An example of the power she now had.

 

I will say, for all the flak Shonda gets for killing off characters, George's death was by far Grey's best, and one of the most shocking TV deaths I've ever seen. I thought it was brilliant how she played on the idea that nobody noticed George was gone and "Double 0...seven?" still gives me chills.

 

What I want to know is what happened with Brooke Smith. Washington used a slur and then tried to lie about it, Michelle Rodriguez on LOST had a couple DUIs, and they both got more episodes to finish out their storylines. What did Brooke Smith do...kill a kitten?

Edited April 23, 2015 by Eolivet

[Deanie87]

What did Brooke Smith do...kill a kitten?

She had the utter gall to not be what the men in charge at ABC considered feminine and sexy. How dare she?

[LakeLover]

She had the utter gall to not be what the men in charge at ABC considered feminine and sexy. How dare she?

 

 

I wonder. I remember an interview once with Julianna Margulies, a long time ago, maybe post-ER days, where she talked about hearing the men in charge discuss whether or not an actress was "fuckable." I also remember Patrick pulling out a statement to read he was given from ABC about Brooke's departure, and in reading it, everyone knew it was the company line.

[upperco]

Who do you think will be the first Shondaland survivor to write a tell-all? Rhimes herself? 

[Featherhat]

Report of 1st report

http://gawker.com/206809/when-hunky-tv-doctors-clash-the-greys-anatomy-choking-incident

 

Then comes the explicit gay slur against TR Knight

 

http://gawker.com/208455/greys-anatomy-chokegate-now-with-more-explicit-gay-slurs

 

So it possibly started out as an issue between PD and IW (or IWs OTT anger issues or PD being late or something) and didn't even involve TRK until IW started throwing around slurs. I think a lot of it might have been jealousy re "McDreamy" press PD was getting at the time. Which is stupid because IW had by far the meatier part.

 

I do feel really sorry for Brooke Smith. I didn’t like Hahn one bit and I preferred Arizona with Callie at that point, but she didn’t deserve to get unceremoniously fired a few episodes into being made a regular because the execs thought her wasn’t hot enough.

[windsprints]

Who do you think will be the first Shondaland survivor to write a tell-all? Rhimes herself? 

If Shonda writes I'm sure there will be nothing about Justin in it since she apparently forgets he's there.  

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she wrote a book about herself at some point. I want the tell-all to be written by a crew member who worked there the whole time, like a producer or someone. I doubt it will ever happen but what a great read it would be.

[Deanie87]

I do feel really sorry for Brooke Smith. I didn’t like Hahn one bit and I preferred Arizona with Callie at that point, but she didn’t deserve to get unceremoniously fired a few episodes into being made a regular because the execs thought her wasn’t hot enough.

Hahn did often come across as abrasive, but that was the writers fault for not making her more than a one -note character and she could have readily been fleshed out. She was so refreshing when she first arrived. I like AZ and I like Capshaw, but I wasn't surprised that Callie's next love interest was a lot more cutesy.

Maybe Joe the Bartender or Melissa George will write something. Or one of those oral histories will come out where everyone gets to dish.

[Tuleh2]

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she wrote a book about herself at some point.

Shonda is writing a book: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/scandal-creator-shonda-rhimes-inks-658313

[JayCeeJ]

 

So it possibly started out as an issue between PD and IW (or IWs OTT anger issues or PD being late or something) and didn't even involve TRK until IW started throwing around slurs. I think a lot of it might have been jealousy re "McDreamy" press PD was getting at the time. Which is stupid because IW had by far the meatier part.

Can't remember where I read the story, and obviously it was years ago, but my understanding was that IW had originally auditioned for Derek and resented losing the role to PD. Once PD became the show's breakout star it only got worse. And if true, it was silly on IW's part because he got much better material.

 

Supposedly the blowup stemmed from an incident when they were on location shooting the S3 ep with all the guys off in the woods. PD shot his scenes then got pulled away to do local Seattle media and IW had to shoot his scenes opposite PD's stand-in. When they got back to the LA set it all came to a head, and then to blows.

 

I have always been convinced that Shonda never got over having to fire IW, thus her eagerness to bring him back for SO's exit (and give Burke his happy ending - a thing almost unheard of in Shondaland).

 

Interesting tidbit: I never knew that PD and IW had worked together years before Grey's, but several years ago I stumbled across a 1997 TV movie called "The Player," based on the Tim Robbins movie of the same name. Guess it was a pilot that didn't get picked up. PD starred in the Tim Robbins part; IW had a small part as a personal assistant/secretary who worked for him. It was quite a trip to watch them together in such different roles.

Edited April 23, 2015 by JayCeeJ

[Tuleh2]

 

PD starred in the Tim Robbins part; IW had a small part as a personal assistant/secretary who worked for him. It was quite a trip to watch them together in such different roles.

I saw that, and they were both very good in it. That pilot was very well done and popular with critics but the subject was too "inside baseball" for it to be picked up. (It would probably make it to series today, though. Or be on cable.)

 

Glad you reminded me of it: it gives me hope that there are better things in store for both PD and IW, and for their fans. (Yes, I think IW has been punished enough at this point.)

Edited April 23, 2015 by Tuleh2

[pennben]

 

I remember an interview once with Julianna Margulies, a long time ago, maybe post-ER days, where she talked about hearing the men in charge discuss whether or not an actress was "fuckable."

 

Just because we all may need to laugh a bit today, I present from Amy Schumer and amazing guests,  "Last Fuckable Day".

[Eolivet]

Ugh. I loved Hahn, and was so upset when Smith was fired. I resented Capshaw for the longest time because she always seemed like a mandatory ABC hire (she'd previously appeared on The Practice).

 

That's what I want included in the tell-all, actually -- though it would have to be from someone completely retired from the business. A list of all the actors they were forced to hire because the network said so. Heck, half the cast of Private Practice seemed like a Home For Orphaned TV Stars.

[AnitaM86]

It was so obvious on screen that SR and TRK never recovered from that.

Frankly, how could they? SR didn't seem to make an effort to make the whole thing better. She seemed to want to save IW from the issue but not to aleviate the situation with TRK. Just terrible.

 

Can't remember where I read the story, and obviously it was years ago, but my understanding was that IW had originally auditioned for Derek and resented losing the role to PD. Once PD became the show's breakout star it only got worse. And if true, it was silly on IW's part because he got much better material.

 

I remember IW telling the story in the special Oprah episode while grabbing Ellen's hand and saying that she was grateful he didn't get it because her boyfriend (now husband) was also black (like that had anything to do with it). I also remember a Nightline special where he was an asshole through the whole interview saying how ABC did not approve of IW being McDreamy because of race and interracial relationships, clearly with some resentment. Now, I don't recall IW saying specifically he was resentful for that but I do recall those two instances where he made it sure for people to know why he isn't "McDreamy" and not being ok with that decision. Frankly, by attitude itself, PD certainly has a better one and obviously was going to get more attention for being a genuine nice person than a resentful one.

 

Exactly! Burke, as a character, was a hell of a lot more developed and rich than Derek ever was. Derek has more of the broken soul trying to get fixed but Burke was a better character. I'm not sure if IW would be able to convey the same way that PD did in many emotional scenes but dude, he had the better material. 

 

I don't understand the firing of Brooke Smith in any way. She was a good character. I do remember the PD statement and how he changed it to make it look the ridiculous statement that it was for this stupid decision.

 

There's so many questions surrounding his exit (if he's going) that it makes it impossible to judge.

 

 

I agree. He never talked about it, ABC/SR never addressed it. They just assumed it was part of the SL, but given that the  SL started a while ago, I tend to believe it was negotiated from the start. I do wonder, if he leaves, what the terms were. 

 

But I don't believe we will know anything soon.

[windsprints]

I remember IW telling the story in the special Oprah episode while grabbing Ellen's hand and saying that she was grateful he didn't get it because her boyfriend (now husband) was also black (like that had anything to do with it).

According to Ellen it was true. She talked about it with the 200th interviews,here. I'm pretty sure she's said it before this too.

"You know they wanted Isaiah Washington to be my boyfriend," Pompeo revealed. "Shonda [Rhimes] really wanted to put a black man in the mix. I didn't think they were really going to put an interracial couple on the show and I didn't want him. It was too close to home."

I can recall a few varying accounts of the IW mess. What I remember as being consistent was PD was late to set, IW was pissed & pushed him into a wall and <slur>.  I did enjoy the character of Burke and liked the ending with Cristina but I will never not laugh at Shonda when she speaks of her "no asshole policy" now. IMO, having a hissy fit and pushing a co-worker into a wall then using hate speech qualifies as an asshole.

 

I either didn't know or completely forgot about Shonda writing a book! "S&S describes the book as "part memoir, part inspiration, part prescription."  

Edited April 23, 2015 by windsprints

[Tuleh2]

 

There's so many questions surrounding his exit (if he's going) that it makes it impossible to judge.

That's why I take deep breaths and remember: karma. PD has been working in Hollywood for 30 years now;  a lot of people know him and have worked with him and will have their own opinions about him and they won't be influenced by whatever PR comes out of this. Shonda is bulletproof right now (meaning no one will dare to stand up to her/publicly take PD's side if they feel it is warranted), but that in itself breeds resentment, and that will catch up with her eventually.

[pennben]

 

That's why I take deep breaths and remember: karma

 

Agreed.  But where karma should land, nobody knows!  Because we literally know nothing at this point!

[AnitaM86]

According to Ellen it was true. She talked about it with the 200th interviews,here. I'm pretty sure she's said it before this too.

Thanks for the info, I completely missed that. Given the Nightline interview, I was led to believe it was mostly ABC-related, not that Ellen had mentioned that too.

[Featherhat]

Yeah I remember that as well. IT wouldn't necessarily surprise me that some of the network execs would prefer a non interracial couple, but I seriously can't see the part as written in the pilot (before the writers had PD in mind when writing) as played by IW. Obviously he's an actor and he can bring out a amused reading of a line, but he seems more suited to a Burke version of intense instead of the playful aspect Derek was pulling around Meredith early on in the pilot, not that he didn't show patches of humor or Derek didn't get serious at all. Especially as time went on, he and Oh made a completely different reading on two best friends getting into the same situation in the first couple of episodes, which could have quickly gotten as old as latterly when everyone was having that storyline.

[windsprints]

I would hope any backlash wouldn't affect any of the actors. Shonda will take a hit, Patrick may as well.

 

Unfortunately, the childish fans are tweeting to all writers, producers & actors who have been promoting the show with the hashtags these past weeks, including Ellen.  Its sad that adults cannot comprehend that actors have jobs and promotion is part of it. None of the actors (or most of the crew) had anything to do with Patrick leaving. The spewing really speaks volumes about parts of the fanbase.

[Artsda]

Patrick won't. Not based on his EW article cover page of being shocked.

[LakeLover]

Unfortunately, the childish fans are tweeting to all writers, producers & actors who have been promoting the show with the hashtags these past weeks, including Ellen.  Its sad that adults cannot comprehend that actors have jobs and promotion is part of it. None of the actors (or most of the crew) had anything to do with Patrick leaving. The spewing really speaks volumes about parts of the fanbase.

 

 

I wouldn't expect a non-Derek fan to understand, but I don't blame the fans, me included. They have a job to do, but frankly, they're pissing on something I've enjoyed and supported for ten years like it's a joyful day. Pardon me for not giving a shit what anyone thinks about me or other fans right now.

[choclatechip45]

I really want to know what happened between Patrick and Shonda! I would love a tell all book about all the drama. Has it ever been revealed why Chyler left?