S01.E07: Episode 7

[Pogojoco]

I started it. 

 

Poor Demelza. 

[Llywela]

 

Francis wrongly blames Ross for helping Verity elope with Andrew Blamey. Meanwhile, Mark suspects Dwight and Keren of having an affair, starting a chain of events which will have tragic consequences and threaten the safety of everyone at Nampara.

Aye, it's all heating up now!

[Glaze Crazy]

That was some high drama.  I had no idea where it was going to end up.  Liked the cutting between the two confrontations.  I wouldn't have been surprised if both scenes had ended up with someone's hands around the others neck.  Good for the women in trying to bring some sanity to the men in their respective locations.

 

For once, Verity gets the sweet love story.  I hope she turns out to be a good sailor so she can stay on the Captain's ship for a while.

 

Poor Demelza is right.  Although she is responsible for her part of the Verity/Blamey re-connection, she isn't the one who did the most damage, Francis is.  He had to know that others, even more than Ross, would suffer by telling George who was participating in the copper buying scheme.  His actions were the most petty and damaging of the two.  I'm hoping Ross figures out that it was really Francis who sold him and his group out to the Warleggans.  Like their aunt said last week, what's wrong with the (women) in their family is the men.

 

What is going on with Jud?  Why the drunken rant about Ross?  I guess I missed something that turned him against Ross.  Is it some connection to the MarkDr.Enys drama?

 

I caught Mark's comment about hiding in Ross's Wheal Easy* mine and finding the copper vein.  I'm guessing Ross will follow up on that information.  I now wonder why, if Ross has more than one mine, he hadn't sent in some surveyors to check for copper, once he switched from tin to copper mining at Wheal Leisure.

 

Lighting Aidan Turner with candles is very effective. Just sayin'.

 

*Wheal Grace

Edited April 21, 2015 by Glaze Crazy

[Nampara]

A comment on ethics and blame in the Verity-Carnmore disaster. Perhaps I should wait to post until episode 7 comes up in the U.S. viewing cycle, but these thoughts are fresh now. I hope others will reply to this post when the episode 7 posting wave hits.

 

Did Demelza do anything wrong? Yes. Demelza is an angel, but unfortunately she is not an omniscient angel. Sometimes she makes mistakes, though usually more regarding consequences than intentions. Here, she deserves blame for deceiving her husband about her activities involving Verity and Blamey, and for denying Ross the opportunity to have a voice in a matter that deeply concerned his closest family members, other than herself and their daughter. After all, Verity and Francis are Ross's first cousins, whom he has known all his life. They are only Demelza's cousins by marriage. Demelza's belief that Ross would disapprove of her actions in promoting the elopement is not a sufficient justification for excluding him and lying to him. This is not to say that she should have given Ross a veto over her plans, but only that her anticipation of disagreement cannot excuse the lack of engagement of an interested party.

 

Who is responsible for the destruction of the Carnmore Copper Company? Francis and George. Contrary to Ross's simplistic moral reasoning, the mere fact that Demelza's actions regarding Verity and Blamey set in motion a chain of events that resulted in betrayal by Francis is not enough to blame Demelza for the consequences of that betrayal. Francis was an independent moral agent, whose spiteful actions were not only not the natural result of the elopement, but were in fact deliberately and independently malicious. "But for" causation is normally insufficient to assign moral responsibility. In other words, the fact that Francis arguably would not have betrayed Ross but for the Demelza-facilitated elopement does not mean that Demelza can be fairly blamed for Francis's wrongful conduct. Moreover, I suspect that Francis probably would have betrayed Ross even if the elopement had not occurred. Granted, this speculation goes beyond any knowledge available to the characters, but I believe Francis would have been susceptible to George's bribery and wheedling even without any fresh anger at Ross. His price may simply have been a little higher than £1,200.

 

Who is responsible for the "rift" in the Poldark family? Demelza, Verity, Francis, and even Ross. (I would add Blamey here as well, except that as a nonmember of the family, his role seems pretty attenuated.) That is, the rift was not caused by Demelza alone, contrary to her self-inculpation. Verity's weakness and timidity in failing to confront Francis in a formal way as early as possible in the process also contributed to the explosive conclusion. Francis of course overreacted to a disgusting degree. And Ross failed to recognize this time, as he had a couple of years earlier, that the family's apparent solidarity was being achieved only through the exercise of coercion directed at one of its members. From this point of view, the "rift" allegedly created by Demelza was really only the full exposure of the pre-existing violence within the family. The family was not truly whole before Demelza acted, because Verity was being quietly victimized through the denial of her deepest wishes. Family peace had been an illusion financed by the sacrifice of Verity's future.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Nampara

[jjj]

I see that both episodes 7 and 8 will be airing on Sunday.  If I can ask a favor, it would be great if no Episode 8 comments would appear here.  I'll probably watch Ep7, come here for comments, then go to Ep8.  I really enjoy these threads, thanks! 

[justmehere]

Well, whatever sympathy I had for Francis pretty much just went out the door. His deep envy and lack of self-worth have now ruined multiple lives, but he's "content" so who cares. I agree wholeheartedly that Demelza is not responsible for Francis' actions. How short-sighted he is, thinking he's only hurting Ross, and he wasn't even willing to discover the truth. Add in his continued friendship with George after the cheating incident, and my sympathy is basically gone. He needs a kick in the pants right now.

 

And now Verity will probably even blame herself when she learns how far things went. Sigh.

 

I'm having some trouble believing that Demelza would have deceived Ross for so long, given how well they communicate about most everything else. At no time in 3 months, after Verity's relationship was better established, did she think she could confide in him? I suppose it would have blown up no matter when it was discovered, but if Ross had known, he might have been able to manage things a little better.

 

Given the actual control Francis had over Verity (making sure she didn't have any letters?), I'm not sure she had much choice about telling him until she was ready to leave. I'd like to think that her finding a backbone would have made a difference, but I'm not sure. No matter when or how Francis found out, he probably would have locked Verity in the house. Which maybe was Demelza's justification for not telling Ross.

 

Ross does need to understand the difference between Demelza's and Francis' actions, but I can't blame him too much in the heat of first knowledge. He was at least relatively reasonable.

 

I was pretty peeved at the doctor too, but I give him credit for owning up to his actions. And Mark, for being willing to turn himself in to the soldiers. That's just a sad situation for him; Keren's death was an obvious accident. I thought it might get passed off as her falling somehow, but Mark has too much of a conscience.

 

Tense moments with the soldiers at the cove. Ross' friend clearly wasn't fooled.

[butterly17]

Francis made me so angry!  And what a jerk not letting Verity have any access to the mail?  WTF is his problem, I guess he just wants her to be part of their unpaid help? 

 

I knew Ross would be pissed when he learned Demelza had been involved. She deserved some of the anger she received, Ross has asked her several times what she knows about Verity and Blamey and she dodged the truth, basically lying by omission.

[Neurochick]

Francis is douche personified. Demelza did nothing wrong. It would have been all good if Francis wasn't such a limp dicked weakling.

[butterly17]

Besides the ending.. which was rough.  I loved what a team Ross and Demelza were this episode.

[Lindsey]

Seriously, we're supposed to sympathize with two men on this show who've killed their wives "accidentally" in a "she made me do it, I was only trying to keep her from hitting me in a fit of hysterics" scenario?  No.

[Nampara]

Seriously, we're supposed to sympathize with two men on this show who've killed their wives "accidentally" in a "she made me do it, I was only trying to keep her from hitting me in a fit of hysterics" scenario?  No.

Yes, that's a good point. Both incidents were "softened" somewhat, in order to make Blamey more palatable as a partner for Verity, and in order to make Ross more palatable as a man who helps an accidental killer, rather than a cold-blooded murderer, escape the law. But the end result for viewers is a bit of disquieting deja vu.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

It's hard for me to blame Demelza since I think that the system that allows Francis to deny his sister the opportunity to be with whomever she wants to be with is archaic and pretty barbaric.  I understand it is true to the era, so my objection is not that it isn't authentic - my objection is that the rules that underlie the system are stupid and rooted in sexism.  Demelza rightly recognized that Verity has the right to be with the man she wants to be with (much as it still worries me that Blamey's first wife ended up dead).  It is kind of funny to me that Ross can flout all sorts of social rules that he thinks are ridiculous, but he doesn't see where the social rules that apply to women are among those ridiculous societal strictures.

 

And in case, if Demelza is to blame, she more than paid for it.

[Milz]

Seriously, we're supposed to sympathize with two men on this show who've killed their wives "accidentally" in a "she made me do it, I was only trying to keep her from hitting me in a fit of hysterics" scenario?  No.

 

That's what I noticed too. Spousal abuse initiated by the wives which ultimately cause their deaths. In other words, Keren's death was her fault because she picked a fight with Mark and Mrs. Blamey's death was her fault because she picked a fight with Blamey.

Victim blaming , huzzah!

 

What I find hard to believe is that almost everyone who is new to Cornwall knew Ross in Virginia. Ross: This is Dwight Enys. He left a huge Sharpie marker scar on my face when he sewed me up." Ross: "This is Captain McNeil. We met at the James River in Virginia. "

[shandy]

What I find hard to believe is that almost everyone who is new to Cornwall knew Ross in Virginia. Ross: This is Dwight Enys. He left a huge Sharpie marker scar on my face when he sewed me up." Ross: "This is Captain McNeil. We met at the James River in Virginia. "

 

 

I know, I thought no guessing why the brits got cut in the revolutionary war, there weren't many more than three people in their army. That was quite the pornstache tho.

[chocolatetruffle]

Actually, Demelza did not keep Ross in the dark about Verity.  He asked her if she knew anything and she said she could not tell him something that had been told to her in confidence, that it would be wrong to break the confidence of a friend.  At that point, he knew that Verity was seeing Blamy and could have gone to Francis.  Instead he wondered out loud how Verity started seeing him again and Demelza looked guilty.  The only secret she kept from him was her involvement in bringing them together.  Now I DO blame Verity first and foremost and Blamy second for continuing to involve Demelza as a go-between.  It went on way too long and Verity should have told Francis herself, much earlier.  She should have known that it would be Hell to pay when Francis found out and that Demelza (and by association Ross) could be exposed and hurt as a result.  

 

I was gratified at Ross' reaction to hearing Demelza's confession, because I felt it communicated his hurt and disappointment, but he was still willing to see her side.  Actually, that whole sequence of her visit to Trenwith contrasted with Ross' meeting w/ his shareholders was really well done.

 

Where did Jud's drunken attack on Ross & Demelza come from??  Had there been gossip about Ross cheating on Demelza with half the women in county??  And his insulting Demelza was so over the top?  I totally did not understand any of that.

Edited August 3, 2015 by chocolatetruffle

[Nampara]

Where did Jud's drunken attack on Ross & Demelza come from??  Had there been gossip about Ross cheating on Demelza with half the women in county??  And his insulting Demelza was so over the top?  I totally did not understand any of that.

 

Based solely on what is dramatized in the program, Jud's attack does seem to have been somewhat randomly generated. I think the only points the audience is supposed to get are that Jud is a mean drunk, and that this was the straw that broke the camel's back. Ross is not going allow himself to be declared a philanderer and a murderer, and his wife to be called a prostitute ("trull") to her face, by a servant. Interestingly, when Jud and Prudie are leaving, Jud mutters something to the effect that he can't understand his banishment because this was nothing worse than what he'd said before!

[butterly17]

Actually, Demelza did not keep Ross in the dark about Verity.  He asked her if she knew anything and she said she could not tell him something that had been told to her in confidence, that it would be wrong to break the confidence of a friend.  

  

I don't remember her saying that.   I remember her kinda hem and hawing around and looking guilty.  But a lie of omission, IMO is still a lie.

My husband who is a book reader says that Jud's attack is because: 

Jinny's kid in the book has a scar like Ross's due to an attack by a guy that was stalking Jinny. So the town's people gossip that the baby is Ross's. 

Edited August 4, 2015 by butterly17

[Llywela]

My husband who is a book reader says that Jud's attack is because: 

Jinny's kid in the book has a scar like Ross's due to an attack by a guy that was stalking Jinny. So the town's people gossip that the baby is Ross's. 

I replied to this in the questions for bookreaders thread, because: explanatory book information.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Actually, Demelza did not keep Ross in the dark about Verity.  He asked her if she knew anything and she said she could not tell him something that had been told to her in confidence, that it would be wrong to break the confidence of a friend.  

 

 

I don't remember her saying that.   I remember her kinda hem and hawing around and looking guilty.  But a lie of omission, IMO is still a lie.

 

 

She did say it. They were in bed at the time. Yes, she hemmed, but she ultimately said what chocolatetruffle posted above.

[chocolatetruffle]

I don't remember her saying that.   I remember her kinda hem and hawing around and looking guilty.  But a lie of omission, IMO is still a lie.

My husband who is a book reader says that Jud's attack is because: 

Jinny's kid in the book has a scar like Ross's due to an attack by a guy that was stalking Jinny. So the town's people gossip that the baby is Ross's. 

 

PBS cut the exchange in their version, but it's in the uncut BBC version.  And you are right, Demelza did lie about helping them, but Ross was also culpable because at that point he knew what was going on, but said nothing to Francis.

[jjj]

PBS cut the exchange in their version, but it's in the uncut BBC version.  And you are right, Demelza did lie about helping them, but Ross was also culpable because at that point he knew what was going on, but said nothing to Francis.

Ah, I had to watch the uncut version last week (PBS took days to post its version), so I did not understand the confusion.  Indeed, Ross adopted a "don't ask, don't tell" on the Verity topic, as far as I could see.  I can never tell what the time frame is in this series, so it may have been months earlier that Demelza told him that, but she did kinda sorta tell him.  They said this week that Verity had been corresponding with the Captain for three months before the elopement.

 

I have to say, going from a very sheltered life on an estate to living as the only woman in small quarters on a ship would be quite a change.  Even a large captain's quarters is only large in comparison to the bunks on which the sailors sleep, not large compared to a house bedroom.

[Llywela]

I have to say, going from a very sheltered life on an estate to living as the only woman in small quarters on a ship would be quite a change.  Even a large captain's quarters is only large in comparison to the bunks on which the sailors sleep, not large compared to a house bedroom.

Captain's wives didn't often travel with them - they were mostly left at home while their husbands were away. In a port town like Falmouth, ship's captains often took houses right on the waterfront, so the wives could sit looking out to watch for their ship returning.

[jjj]

Captain's wives didn't often travel with them - they were mostly left at home while their husbands were away. In a port town like Falmouth, ship's captains often took houses right on the waterfront, so the wives could sit looking out to watch for their ship returning.

Absolutely!  That was a point I kind of buried.  Ship crew quarters are not family living, even the captain's.  Bare necessities and tiny space are a change from servants and a furnished house.  But I understand her need to escape and try at marriage -- just saying that it surely would be a shock to *my* system!  There are many reasons the wives stayed behind and waited, as you note.  No way Verity could wait in that particular port, of course. 

[whatsatool]

I don't remember anything about the original Poldark, other than my roommate and I watching it faithfully and saying,"Pol-DARK!," with emphasis on the second syllable. So I can't remember what Elizabeth did, but this Elizabeth I prefer to Demelza and I think she would economize rather than be a mistress.

[Llywela]

Absolutely!  That was a point I kind of buried.  Ship crew quarters are not family living, even the captain's.  Bare necessities and tiny space are a change from servants and a furnished house.  But I understand her need to escape and try at marriage -- just saying that it surely would be a shock to *my* system!  There are many reasons the wives stayed behind and waited, as you note.  No way Verity could wait in that particular port, of course. 

Why couldn't Verity wait in that particular port? It's a good distance from Trenwith, and even if it were't, it's not like she'd be in any danger - her family aren't going to try to kidnap her back. Blamey was showing her over his ship and introducing her to his crew, not taking her to live aboard. He has a house in Falmouth, we saw them dining there. That's where Verity will be living, in Blamey's house on the waterfront, not on board his ship. It is a big change for her, sure, but that's the choice she made: a household of her own, love and husband and the hope of children, instead of remaining always the unmarried sister in her brother's house and ending up Aunt Agatha in another fifty years.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Llywela

[QuelleC]

I thought she was going onboard for the wedding and maybe being taken to another port.  Surely Francis could find out where Blamey lived and which port he left and look for her.  He doesn't seem to have taken those steps but his anger over Verity leaving baffles me other than his saying, when referring to Ross, that at least there wasn't another bad marriage in the family.  And clearly she was very useful.  He thought nothing of her, wanting her to stay there forever taking care of them?  Francis is awful.  He's the one who gave up the investors' names to George after being given the 1,200, ruining Ross and others. 

 

I appreciate the posts about how Demelza would feel better about going to the sea rather than graveside but I would never have let that ribbon out of my hand, ever. 

 

I finished high school in '79, was a great reader, we watched a lot of PBS, I ended up with a degree in English yet I never heard of Poldark at all until this new series. 

[Llywela]

Francis opposed Verity's marriage because Blamey killed his first wife (and because it then became an entrenched position, no backing down, a point of pride), not because he wants to keep Verity as a servant. Verity has never been a servant. What she has done is manage the household, because that's who she is, and her family allowed her to take on that responsibility, because they are lazy and because, quite frankly, she was better at it than any of them.

 

Francis did not go after Verity when she eloped because while he opposed the marriage he isn't the ogre most folk seem to think, he isn't about to drag her back kicking and screaming. She made her choice and is now married, end of story. He's angry and feels betrayed, but that doesn't mean he's going to try to bring her back against her will when she is already married - too late for that anyway. He'll just cut her off.

 

George manipulated Francis into giving him the investors' names, playing on Francis's anger and feelings of betrayal - Francis believed that it was Ross who contrived to bring Verity and Blamey together, and George encouraged him to exact revenge. It was wrong and very weak of him to do it, but George played him like a fiddle.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Llywela

[dubbel zout]

In a port town like Falmouth, ship's captains often took houses right on the waterfront, so the wives could sit looking out to watch for their ship returning.

 

Hence the widow's walk.

 

He thought nothing of her, wanting her to stay there forever taking care of them?  Francis is awful.

 

To be fair, it was SOP for an unmarried daughter to stay at home and help take care of things. And I don't think it's awful of Francis to be concerned about Verity marrying Blamey. The way he's gone about his concern is awful.

Edited August 5, 2015 by dubbel zout

[GHScorpiosRule]

 

To be fair, it was SOP for an unmarried daughter to stay at home and help take care of things. And I don't think it's awful of Francis to be concerned about Verity marrying Blamey. The way he's gone about his concern is awful.

 

This! It's the way Francis has been acting and showing his concern that I find atrocious. One would think Verity upped and became a prostitute or something. They way he has handled this gives me the impression that his only concern is how Verity marrying Blamey affects him.

Edited August 5, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[Nidratime]

Francis is, at least nominally, the head of his household and the fact that his sister ran off to marry a man of whom he does not approve upsets him, but also makes him look like he doesn't have control over his own household. So, yes -- it's both about being afraid for Verity but also about being disobeyed and made to look impotent in his own household and among his peers.

[Llywela]

This! It's the way Francis has been acting and showing his concern that I find atrocious. One would think Verity upped and became a prostitute or something. They way he has handled this gives me the impression that his only concern is how Verity marrying Blamey affects him.

Elopement was a pretty big deal in this time period - think Pride and Prejudice and how scandalous it was when Lydia eloped with Wickham, the way it was seen to reflect on the entire family.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Elopement was a pretty big deal in this time period - think Pride and Prejudice and how scandalous it was when Lydia eloped with Wickham, the way it was seen to reflect on the entire family.

 

I am aware of that.  But even before Verity eloped, Francis's attitude, from the beginning...let's just say I didn't see any concern from him as regards to Verity and her feelings.

[chocolatetruffle]

I think the confusion about where Verity will be living comes from the conversation she had with Blamey in Episode 6, where they talk about how good a sailor she might be and she is anxious to be taken to different ports of call - Lisbon she mentions specifically.  I also got the impression that she would be spending time on the ship, sailing around with her new husband.  Perhaps it would only be for a short while, like a honeymoon.  This would account for the celebratory scene where she comes aboard his ship after the wedding.

 

ETA:  regarding Francis' motivations.  I think they are firmly rooted in selfishness.  He feels HE looks bad because his family betrayed HIM.  He doesn't get that everyone else wanted to help Verity, not ruin him.  He doesn't get that Verity left because she wanted love and her own life.  He only sees that he was betrayed.

Edited August 5, 2015 by chocolatetruffle

[Nidratime]

Yes, once Verity formed an attachment to Andrew Blamey, it became almost beyond their control. If Verity's family had been at all concerned about her needs and desires before than -- rather than just take her for granted -- they should've made an effort to encourage suitable suitors and accompanied her out more out into society. But, I'm guessing part of the reason why that didn't happen is that Verity's mother had passed away and there was no one looking out for her interests. Her father and brother took the easy way out by just allowing her to slip into the role of Mistress of Trenwith, until Francis got married and kind of made Verity redundant as well as making her realize how much she really wanted to have her own home and family via the very presence of a young family (such as it was) in her midst.

[Llywela]

I'm not sure how much society there was in that part of Cornwall at that time - certainly London society was largely out of reach for a family like the Poldarks (it would take a good week just to get there). We know that they did attend social gatherings - that was how Francis met and fell for Elizabeth, and there were dances like the one Verity persuaded Ross to take her to. But by the time the show opens, Verity in her mid-20s is already considered by society to be a hopeless case destined for spinsterhood - not unlike Charlotte Lucas in P&P, and for similar reasons. She wouldn't bring much of a dowry and had no beauty to recommend her, and there were plenty of other girls in the district with more to offer to such young men as were around on the social scene. I think she was mostly just unfortunate and her chance passed her by - until Andrew Blamey came along.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Llywela

[Nidratime]

Yes, I agree, but what I'm saying is if she had a Mrs. Bennet ;-) pushing her out there and forcing the menfolk to put a priority on getting Verity a husband, she might have found someone she could love sooner.

[Milz]

From episode 1 we're given the impression that Verity is a homely, old maid loser  who has no other prospect than to manage Trenwith. Charles and Francis didn't interfere with her relationship with Blamey until they learned he was drunkard and a wife killer. I think they were within their right to do that (what kind of father or brother would they be if they allowed Verity to marry a wife-killing drunk?)  Verity's safety is as much at stake as the family reputation.

 

Verity was of "legal age" so she could have run away with Blamey before the duel and there would be no legal recourse the Poldarks could have taken. But she choose to stay at Trenwith.

 

I would have preferred that Verity be portrayed as the highly competent, resourceful manager who ought to have inherited Trenwith and its properties but her sex prevented it, rather than a homely, dried up old maid loser who's only attractive to a reformed drunk and convicted wife killer.

[Nidratime]

I would have preferred that Verity be portrayed as the highly competent, resourceful manager who ought to have inherited Trenwith and its properties but her sex prevented it, rather than a homely, dried up old maid loser who's only attractive to a reformed drunk and convicted wife killer.

 

 

Well, yes, but that doesn't resolve the issue that Verity wanted to get married and have a family of her own -- even if she had inherited Trenwith and it's properties she may have still wanted that. Don't know if that would've helped her attract more prospects since the estate wasn't doing well. I don't recall if it was brought up in this version of the story, but in others, Verity mentions to Demelza how much she envies her because she's married to the man she loves and has a family with him.

[Milz]

Well, yes, but that doesn't resolve the issue that Verity wanted to get married and have a family of her own -- even if she had inherited Trenwith and it's properties she may have still wanted that. Don't know if that would've helped her attract more prospects since the estate wasn't doing well. I don't recall if it was brought up in this version of the story, but in others, Verity mentions to Demelza how much she envies her because she's married to the man she loves and has a family with him.

 

I think I didn't explain it properly. I would rather have had Verity portrayed as an intelligent woman with all the qualities of a good business manager. Instead we got a Verity who's not only a loser but also treated no better than a servant because she's a loser. As you mentioned, Verity's prospects for marriage earlier in her life could have been due to no one actively looking for a husband for her or as other mentioned a lack of suitable men. But Horsfield played the homely loser card with Verity, which is a shame.

[chocolatetruffle]

Well, yes, but that doesn't resolve the issue that Verity wanted to get married and have a family of her own -- even if she had inherited Trenwith and it's properties she may have still wanted that. Don't know if that would've helped her attract more prospects since the estate wasn't doing well. I don't recall if it was brought up in this version of the story, but in others, Verity mentions to Demelza how much she envies her because she's married to the man she loves and has a family with him.

 

She never actually said it, but it was pretty obvious to me that this is exactly what she was thinking when she looked at Demelza during certain unguarded moments.  Demelza was aware of it too because she commented on it at the Christening.

[Llywela]

Yes, I agree, but what I'm saying is if she had a Mrs. Bennet ;-) pushing her out there and forcing the menfolk to put a priority on getting Verity a husband, she might have found someone she could love sooner.

I'm not sure it's quite as simple as that in a small district with a very limited pool of eligible men and little possibility for looking further afield - let's not forget that as ambitious as Mrs Bennett was for her daughters, they struck lucky in that a pair of extremely eligible men happened to move to the area just when they were at their most marriageable - and both Jane and Elizabeth had various advantages over quiet, plain Verity. Maybe Charles could have done more for her - but he wasn't that well off even at the start of the show, with Grambler on the decline, and quite frankly I doubt Verity would have been happy in a marriage that was bought for her rather than a love match. She just wasn't lucky enough to meet her Mr Right at an earlier age - and was unfortunate that when she found him, he had a horrible history that quite rightly alarmed her family and thus triggered the sorry chain of events.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Llywela

[Milz]

Charles tells Ross in episode 1 that the Cornwall he returned to isn't the Cornwall he left in terms of a steady economic decline (as well as the elizabeth-francis thing). They never revealed when Verity and Francis' mother died, but if it was when Verity was in her late teens-early twenties, that could explain why Verity was never matched up with anyone suitable. Moreover, Aunt Agatha was the matriarch of the family when Verity's mother died, so she should have had some responsibility in finding a suitable match for Verity.

 

But the  she's-a-homely-loser card was played here because it's easier than actually delving into reasons why a lady would not be able to find an eligible husband. And as such, Verity is portrayed as a loser who has no other recourse than to stay at Trenwith and act as Francis' and Elizabeth's personal maid of all work.

[Llywela]

Moreover, Aunt Agatha was the matriarch of the family when Verity's mother died, so she should have had some responsibility in finding a suitable match for Verity.

I think spinster Aunt Agatha in her 80s/90s can in no way be described as the matriarch of the family! She's the decrepit maiden aunt the family has had to care for all these years because she never married and set up a household of her own - the fate in store for Verity also if she hadn't married. Agatha had no responsibility for Verity's marriage prospects - by the time Verity was old enough Agatha would have been well, well past her days of chaperoning young girls to dances.

 

Verity's failure to marry young was no one person's fault - nor, really, anyone's fault. It was just one of those things - situation, opportunity, individuality, etc, all played their part. It happens.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Llywela

[Milz]

I think spinster Aunt Agatha in her 80s/90s can in no way be described as the matriarch of the family! She's the decrepit maiden aunt the family has had to care for all these years because she never married and set up a household of her own - the fate in store for Verity also if she hadn't married. Agatha had no responsibility for Verity's marriage prospects - by the time Verity was old enough Agatha would have been well, well past her days of chaperoning young girls to dances.

 

Verity's failure to marry young was no one person's fault - nor, really, anyone's fault. It was just one of those things - situation, opportunity, individuality, etc, all played their part. It happens.

 

Aunt Agatha was the senior female Poldark. True, she is an old lady, but I don't think that would prevent her from being interested in Verity's marital prospects. Comparing Verity to Anne Elliot in Austen's Persuasion, Anne had the guidance of her mother's best friend, Lady Russell. It appears that Verity had none. But again, Horsfield played the "she's-a-homely-loser" card because it's the easy way out compared with explaining Verity's spinister status as a quirk of fate.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Milz

[Llywela]

I think Lady Russell would have been a lot younger than Agatha, who is practically housebound. She might be keenly interested in Verity's marital prospects, but that doesn't make her any the more capable of promoting them at her age. Anne Elliott's circumstances were very different.

 

Verity was just unlucky. Not everyone can meet The One before they turn 25 - and someone living in an isolated rural community with a restricted pool of potential suitors is at even more of a disadvantage. We don't know what efforts were or weren't made for Verity before the story begins, so can't really judge; we only know that at 25 when the story opened she remained unmarried and was considered by most to be a hopeless case, her bloom behind her and too many younger women around to compete with.

 

You're right though that the show played the 'too homely to attract a husband earlier' card rather than explore the more complex reasons why a young woman would find it hard to make a suitable match. Although to be fair, that angle also arises in the books.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Llywela

[chocolatetruffle]

But the  she's-a-homely-loser card was played here because it's easier than actually delving into reasons why a lady would not be able to find an eligible husband. And as such, Verity is portrayed as a loser who has no other recourse than to stay at Trenwith and act as Francis' and Elizabeth's personal maid of all work.

 

The character that I saw portrayed on screen was much more complex than this "homely loser" description would imply.  Verity did not display her wares like Ruth, but she was not homely and certainly was as physically attractive as anyone else at the two large parties we saw.  Her only "impediment" was that she was a bit shy and did not play the "coy and flirtatious" card.  She was much more direct.  Additionally, Verity has value to her family and to their society beyond the status of her ovaries.  She is an anchor in that household that keeps everything and everyone around her running smoothly.  So, no, I did not see a "loser" at all;  I saw a lovely, capable young woman who had a purpose in life, but who wanted more.

[Milz]

The character that I saw portrayed on screen was much more complex than this "homely loser" description would imply.  Verity did not display her wares like Ruth, but she was not homely and certainly was as physically attractive as anyone else at the two large parties we saw.  Her only "impediment" was that she was a bit shy and did not play the "coy and flirtatious" card.  She was much more direct.  Additionally, Verity has value to her family and to their society beyond the status of her ovaries.  She is an anchor in that household that keeps everything and everyone around her running smoothly.  So, no, I did not see a "loser" at all;  I saw a lovely, capable young woman who had a purpose in life, but who wanted more.

 

Episode 1 or 2 Charles Poldark says that she is "plain" (read: homely) and used that as a reason why she wasn't married.. So the homely loser card is what Horsfield dealt to Verity. Moreover this adaptation made Verity more valuable to Francis and Elizabeth as the maid of all work for the family, rather than a cherished sister. Of the characters, Ross and later Demelza are the Poldarks who appreciate Verity for what she is.

[NumberCruncher]

The character that I saw portrayed on screen was much more complex than this "homely loser" description would imply.  Verity did not display her wares like Ruth, but she was not homely and certainly was as physically attractive as anyone else at the two large parties we saw.  Her only "impediment" was that she was a bit shy and did not play the "coy and flirtatious" card.  She was much more direct.  Additionally, Verity has value to her family and to their society beyond the status of her ovaries.  She is an anchor in that household that keeps everything and everyone around her running smoothly.  So, no, I did not see a "loser" at all;  I saw a lovely, capable young woman who had a purpose in life, but who wanted more.

Yep, this is exactly what I saw. I never once saw Verity as a loser. To me, she clearly had been unlucky in love, but I just adored her "can do" attitude. She was the one to take the initiative to try to help Ross through his depression over Elizabeth and jumped in to help Demelza when she saw her struggling in her new life. With regards to her own life, I saw a woman with steely determination--which came shining through when she finally had enough of Francis's attempts to control her life. Losers don't walk away from an unsupportive family and life of comfort to follow their hearts. Kick-ass women do that--especially when they live in a time when women had so few choices in determining their own fate. That's why Verity is my next favorite character on the show after Demelza.

Edited August 6, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[Llywela]

Episode 1 or 2 Charles Poldark says that she is "plain" (read: homely) and used that as a reason why she wasn't married.. So the homely loser card is what Horsfield dealt to Verity. Moreover this adaptation made Verity more valuable to Francis and Elizabeth as the maid of all work for the family, rather than a cherished sister. Of the characters, Ross and later Demelza are the Poldarks who appreciate Verity for what she is.

A one-off comment made by a single character doesn't have to be read as the entirety of another character's status and backstory. What we are shown is more complex than a plain girl who couldn't attract a man. We've also seen Verity's retiring personality, her diligence around the house, the lack of eligible men (Mrs Teague is certainly desperate for fresh blood for her daughters), and so on.

 

We have not seen Verity acting as a maid of all work. We have seen her managing the household, which is a different thing entirely - and something she has chosen to do, responsibility she stepped up to after her mother's death because she then became the woman of the household, and a responsibility that Elizabeth has not taken from her because Elizabeth, frankly, is not that way inclined. Elizabeth is not a natural manager. Verity is. Verity sees things that need doing and does them because that is who she is, whereas it simply wouldn't occur to Elizabeth to even think of doing half the things Verity does, because Elizabeth doesn't think that way.

 

I saw no indication that Charles and Francis wanted to keep Verity at home just so she could work for them. I saw a father and brother concerned that she was involved with a man who'd killed his first wife, a father and brother who then let their pride take control and handled the situation badly. Do they take her for granted? Yes. But they at no point were keeping her as a maid! If she weren't a cherished daughter and sister they wouldn't have cared that her suitor was a reformed drunk who'd killed his first wife. It was because they cherished her that the thought of it horrified them.

[Haleth]

Oops, I didn't realize there were separate threads for epis 7 and 8.  Will repost in 8.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Haleth